Tariq "Black Thought" Trotter

00:00:00 Speaker 1: Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. Here we go. Suprema Suprema role called the Supreme Suprema role, called Suprema Supremo role, called Suprema s Supremo role. He is the best. Yeah, nothing to prove. Yeah, we get the honor. Yeah, Suprema Suprema. My name is Fante. Yeah, back on the block with my man Rigs yaphi coto Suprema ro Suprema. My name is Sugar. Yeah, I shall proceed. Yeah to eat your shrewd and smoke your weeds. So prim so primo primo. So I'm unpaid, Bill, I'm not better than you. Yeah, but thanks to Fante, Yeah, I'm a better rapper than you. Yeah, and my favorite yeah who else? Yeah it's yeah, I give all y'all that, but y'all gonna have to chill. Yeah, I know I'm gonna have to rap sound Supremo, roll up premoch sup who wait? You know like dot X will stop a bar like like he will stop a bar fourteen before he finishes. I did. I did because like too many times and there's a really long pause. Yeah, I can get used to this. This is another in person Yeah, classic dust Dusting one of the most anticipated episodes of all Quest Loove Supreme Time. Exactly the amount of times that Like has been in the group chat. When is this going to happen? When is this going to happen? I don't know for me. If you're old enough to know the reference, this will feel like the anytime that Eddie Murphy comes on the r Show where it's like, how do you add professional with someone that you've known for four decades of all your life? Like, you know, this is another episode of Quest Love Supreme Ladies and Gentlemen, Quest Love and Wait, where the hell are we? Like go back in time? It's like an old time streshold recording studio. Yes, I feel like I'm in nineteen thirty six and also nineteen ninety six. Yo, it's also too. Today is the I guess the thirteenth or twelfth anniversary of an undone drop today? December sixth. Wow, let's say that's awesome. Twelfth, twelve year twelve, right, I think it's twelve. Yeah, I'm getting numb to roots album anniversaries. I know, right, I got so many of them. I know, man, what a beautiful privilege. That's beautiful? All right? So yeah, sugar, Steve, how's life good? That's night Bill? You made it? What's up? Mn? Happy to be here. You gave me like a half a second and say how was like? I was like, house, like great, great, I'm paying Bill. What's going on? Great? Everything's good. I'm happy to be here. I thought I wasn't gonna be here at the weather sort of me here. Okay, that's awesome. Uh F tikeolo. This is the first time we're talking to you after seeing the documentary. Man, was a response. It's been amazing, man, kind of overwhelming. But uh no, man, it's yeah. It's being received exactly how we want to be received. We made it with a lot of love, and we get a lot of love back. So check it out a little bit. Go check it out, all right, And what's the next move after the documentary? I don't know. I mean, I just we literally, so we finished this. We finished the doc November seventh, We had our first screen in November nine, and then we released it November twenty fourth. So I ain't trying to do shit a little bit. I'm just yeah, we don't know about that life not doing it. Yeah, I'm not doing shit. Hey, I hear man right back to rap, back to the lag. Well, I mean, I will say that, you know, it's real good to see because it was also just like unprecedented territory because not since maybe Metallica's Some kind of Monster have us seen a documentary of a group really do self analytical work, because normally it's just like cutting place and then nineteenth thirty and we did this and no, no, no, no, no no, and then you know that sort of undone unsung methods, and so yeah, it was good to watch. And actually our guest today and myself were at the very beginning of our process. So we're finna bite jack that whole concept. I really really break off ship, Like, yo, man, how come we you know what I mean? Like you down to the to the very last compound and ship, that's what you do with the youth though, y'all you've put themselves out there and then we you know, how's it going. I'm good. I am so happy that we finally got this done, ladies and gentlemen. We have literally one of the best wordsmiths that ever entered the realm of hip hop, which sort of sounds like an empty intro, but it's it's actually literally true. What actually makes this even more special appropose that we're here kind of to celebrate a new chapter in your life, which is kind of you opening up to the world because you've been very mysterious to the entire world. And yes, it's awkward as fuck giving introduction. No, but I absolutely make no buns. Buns, you don't make buns. No, I don't about no, I absolutely make no bones about our guest today being not only just one of the greatest people of all time, but you know, it's like, I don't know how to refer to Tuik because he's literally probably been the most consistent figure in my life period. Like I've seen him on a regular basis for the last thirty seven years of my life. Like I haven't done that with my mother, my father and my sister, any girlfriend. Like it's kind of my work spouse, which I don't even have shame in that. Man. This is this is, this is a commitment. The greatest of all time. Tariq Black Thought Trotter is on Costloft Supreme Yeah, Platform, thank you, thank you, sir. So God, oh God, see that Arsenio ednything started already before every for any l moment, there's always here in the background. God is great. God. Yeah. Initially my plan was like to lay back and let the four of you go at it, to ask whatever, but even I have questions. I'm mid read of the book right now. But since you are bursting at the seams, start Okay, Well, let's just start with this. The fact that this is one of the most anticipated projects, at least in our circle of people. We've been waiting to hear your story for probably the last couple decades. So I want to know why now and why the way that you decided to do and how you and not why the way you decided to do it, but how you decided to do it. You know. I think the the why now of it all is I kind of feel like now or never, you know what I mean, Like there's a certain urgency that is very tangible that you know, is to I don't know, I feel like there is like it's time to do all all the things right we have to, you know, sort of do it or not, you know what I'm saying. So for me, it was it was now or never. It was you know, if not now, then when it was you know, why not now? And you know all different ways that I could you know, self sabotage in my mind and worst case scenario without I was able to resolve, you know. And and yeah, it just felt like, uh, you know the best move both h you know, for me, for my sanity, for my mental peace, and you know, just to give people who have been longtime supporters of the route something new to latch onto and you know, something to identify with and you know, something that they're able to you know, see representation of themselves in to some extent hopefully. Yeah, it just felt very necessary. So and real quick, what's this process? Because I told Fante this morning, we've been talking about your book a lot, and between May the Lord watch his documentary and the Upcycle self, they're very special because we are seeing not just our two of our favorite artists to our favorite MC's, but we are seeing two black men of certain ages reveal themselves in ways that we may not be used to seeing film wise and on paper. So when talking to Fontan and knowing that he started his process years ago because the onion has to be peeled, how does that work for you? As far as yet, I'm going to do this book, I'm going to bring this, but I know you had to go through the Okay, do I want to talk about this or I do I want to talk about that? And I ain't gonna do that, but somebody had to go to you. No, you have to do that. You have to say these things. How do you do that? Yeah? Yeah, Well this isn't my first attempt at a memoir, you know what I'm saying. So I feel like maybe I feel like this is a third time, So third times a charm, you know what I'm saying. I partnered it up with a couple of different people, you know, the collaborators in the past, and you know, great minds, and we've got you know, hours of hours of interview uh you know, audio and video stuff, and we took you know, lots of notes and so that did all of the all of the you know, like the groundwork. But yeah, I wasn't able to get through the process in either of those instances. And I think in this dynamic like between me and Jasmine Martin. Jasmine is from Philadelphia, you know what I'm saying. As them, we've worked together on so many different things over the past five or six years or so. We had just did a comparable sort of project for Audible during Quarantine in seven years. So, like the bones were there. So it was just about, you know, how are we going to approach it? And we wrote this book the way that we would record an album or work on a screenplay or do anything for musical theater. It was sort of you know, from the inside out, you know what I'm saying on some Quentin Tarantino shit. I think that that's the beauty of you know, just being it being my first time, you know what I mean doing the thing. There's a there's a blitz they you know, they don't say ignorance is bliss for nothing, right, So there's something in the just the abandon of not knowing better, not knowing the right way to do a thing, so you just do it, you know, like the artistic or you know, most efficient or creative way. And that's what I'm experience right now. How many years was this book in the making. It took about a year and a half two years, okay, yea. And the first two attempts that you made at doing the kind of this biography, what made those I guess the wrong attempts? Like what what didn't work about those I think it was just the relate, like I was sort of relinquishing my my story, you know what I mean. And in both of those situations, it was almost as if I was along for the ride because these were too far more experienced authors and you know what I mean, people that I had, you know, I still have a great deal of respect for, but they just aren't famil like you know, no one could tell your story the way you can tell it, you know. But I wasn't, you know, ready, for whatever reason, to tell it myself. So I figured by you know, just association, I would receive, you know, the same sort of validation as if I, you know, if I just you know, jump jumped out there on my own. And that wasn't the case. And uh yeah, I just it wasn't ready, you know what I mean. Things happened when they as they should, you know, and I don't think either of those, you know, like respectfully, it just wasn't you know, like the right situation or time, you know what I'm saying. I get it. When in writing this book, did you have to have conversations? We had Will on the show and he was talking about how, you know, he had to have conversations with family and people like, yo, this is coming. Did you have to have those talks with your people on how did they go? I had. I had some of those talks with you know, people whose opinion you know what I mean, who it mattered to me how they feel, and yeah, you know, like there was lots that we had to omit, you know what I mean, Like my uncle who is my father's brother, my oldest year surviving relative. He you know, he likes to talk and he has no filter, you know what I'm saying. Once you get in your eighties, it's like, yeah, so yeah, there's very much that had to be omitted, and you know, some names had to be changed with then there was a bunch of names that were left in there. And those are the people, you know, I had to holler at like my auntie now you know what I'm saying, Like you know, like you go be good, you and you and then you know, some homies, like there were a couple of people who I grew up with who just some minor inconsistencies, Like there was one thing that I saw, like in the book, it says that these two kids that my boys started this organization of writers called T E T. And they didn't start T E T. They weren't even they weren't ain't even right. You know what I'm saying. Now, When I was doing the audio book, I caught it because I did my own audio book, so I caught it and I corrected it. But you know, I wasn't gonna have to. You got to come out the pocket if it's like, oh, yes, one more thing I want to change. So it's like, yeah, they just has to stay in there. But I hit them up, like yo, you know you read the book, it's going to say X, Y and Z. I mean not really, you know, to make sure it was good with the dudes who were credited at starting the group, but to make sure it was good with the dudes who were in it, and you know, they had nothing to do with T E T. You know what I'm saying. But every everybody's all good. And folks that I grew up with, like people from my block, like like who you know were in the in those scenarios, in those moments in time that that that I reconjured in the book, have read it and told me that it was a great read and that it was you know, the transportive and in the way that we intended it to be. In the book, you talk about specifically a fight you and the Meer had in London and how that changed the course of you guys relationship in some way. How do you think it changed y'all? How did that change 'all dynamic? Well, you know, I think, uh, if if you if you have a close friend, you and a close friend get in, you're like come to you know, a fisticuffs like you're come to blows, something that's forever changed. Right. If it's between two people who are used to fighting all the time, then you know it's sometimes just far little like with it that change is you know, I mean, it's less significant then if that's somebody's only fight, Like I'm going through my mind, I can't remember how many fights I have been and I don't even stomped out. I mean I win, some lose, some bunch of fights and ship it. If that's like your only fight, if you had like one, two, three altercations, then yeah, I would think it would be just more impactful. So that's just how I understood it, you know what I mean. I think for me, it was something that like later that day I moved on, like you know what I'm saying, definitely again, like there was something had been changed, but it was such a insignificant change for me. But yeah, I just feel like in our mirrors, you know, world, there was something that uh, you know, there was a line that had been crossed that you know what I'm saying, we could never sort of un cross, you know. And funeral that was like that was a quick fist couple of more wrestling like wrestling. It was it was it was it was wrestling joint amy or did you get it. I just sat on top of him, was like, I never re this situation. But the thing is like when you're in my size, like people just rightfully think like I'm never fucking with him. So I never had a fight my life. That was the only fight I've ever had in my life. You know. It's kind of weird. Do y'all understand that for the majority of the public, they don't really get to see, like, you know, to you writing a whole chapter about a mirror and how you guys met at how y'all connected in real life? People watch y'all and they watch you on the stage. They watch him from drums, but they really don't see y'all ever connect. And I gotta say as a fan and I feel like family friends not so much. But I remember, I said to Fant this morning, I said, I remember the one time and the first time that I saw y'all like embrace, right. I remember how it felt to see it. I remember where I was. I was at the Black Lily, at the five Spot. I felt emotional because it was just something that I hadn't seen y'all. Y'all was having a private conversation at the bar, was having a private conversation at the bar. And it wasn't like a let me hug you, bro, but it was just like a show of affection that I had never seen between the two of you. And I'm just curious, are y'all coind? I thought I was just like, oh, I'll see you tomorrow, But y'all don't do I see you tomorrow, hug bro, I'll see you tomorrow. Like that's not something that people are used to seeing. It's weird, Okay. So I have despite whatever the perception, the whatever, my like, I don't know what people think they see me like, I've heard I'm super arrogant. I hear I'm happy, go lucky or are you a little disconnected? Sometimes? Yeah, I'm very loof I hear that at But the one thing I had to work on the pandemic was really letting go of old ideas and perceptions. And the one thing that I was always taught that my dad always taught me. And that's basically because he went through a situation with the business that he started with his brothers, and one of his big rules was always like, you know, never start business with family. You can never ever mix business in your friendship. Da da da da. And I've seen the told that that business took on my dad, like we we lost, he lost so much money. We Yeah, I think I met it on the show, like we lived three years without gas in the house and it was like either a private school for a mere or a gas This is before Kappa. Oh yeah, there's is some crazy shit with me. So that said I always like, once I realized, oh, we're running a business, then I wondered, like, well, I wonder how like well shit change? Like will we still spend the night at each other's house? Like can we be friends? Or am run a business? So I was and even when I joke about the Grifven Door Slytherin thing. In my mind, it was all always like, now that we have a business, I should keep a professional distance so that the business can last long. But I also knew that I was sacrificing because I do miss those times where like we just hang out and you know, watch movies and all that stuff. But in my mind, I think I was carrying a lot of my father's beliefs I started carrying on my own. And the one thing I thought about was like, oh, man, I mean when Uncle Rosie and Dad and so now that I'm starting business with so it's like a brother than me. I could never do that. I mean, there's something to that, right, you know what I'm saying, like that isn't like lots of OG's have that philosophy, and it's not for you know, not for nothing. And you know, like just to speak to that same sort of you know thing, you know, I mean, Sean and I You've showing who manages the roots. That is my cut. That's who I'm talking. That's who that nigga just left when I burned down the house. He yeah, the fuck it. His spot on the on the floor was still warm, but you know, we grew up only you know, two years apart from one another, and just really close as cousins in the same way that our mothers were. They were like sisters, but they were aunt and niece, and he and I were, you know, great cousins, but you know we were more like brothers. Hotfully about that too. I mean we went to you know, college together, that whole thing. But once he became you know, the roots business manager, and once he partnered up with Rich, there was something that I mean, it changed, like there's something that changed, and I always wondered, you know, it's like, you know, we used to kick it all the time. We go get drinks, we go we at parties, we you know what I mean. I talked to you in the morning, we're on the phone, and there's something that there is a you know, uh, consciousness of maintaining the business bar that I think. I mean, there's a there's something admirable and being able to separate the professionalism, you know what I mean in that way. You know what I mean, It's like he and I have brothers showing and our cousins. I don't think that's ever gonna change. But for the brand's sake, for the sake of the business. Yeah, you know what I'm saying, Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do. So I mean, I completely understand, you know, I know, like there are lots of other examples that have been set, you know what I mean, other cats, other you know, artists that have been collaborative in a comparable way, but none of them have stood the test of time that we have. So it must be something to that shit, you know what I'm saying. It is weird though, once uh once during the bionic period of Bionics. Sorry, this is what two thousand and three, I think two thousand and two, two thousand and three, I caught Dayla in a twenty minute, candid moment. I forget where we were, either like a photo shoot or something like that, and I was far away, but I was keeping my eye on them, and I was like, wait a minute, they actually like each other. Yeah, because it's also a thing where you got to understand that to endure. And we can't stress enough the amount of stress and turmoil those first like four years were where daily every day like my one dream of why this has to work is I can never I will never ever go back to fifty two twelve O Sage Avenue. I don't know if you remember Jungle Fever, when that moment where Annabella Schior had to, like in a moment of defeat, have to come back home to her dad. And my worst nightmare was this one because even before things fall apart, like every day I had to deal with hearing my dad sort of say like you got to get a real job, and or you're doing a video, but was a cable bill and what about the electric bill? And d da da da da da. So my mind like it's like I can never But the thing is is that we have to be in tight the way that you describe being on that tour, in like tight circles, Like I've never spent that much amount of time with any human that long. So it's like you gotta maintain a professional relationship and your brothers and you know, and again I'm just I'm going you you're gonna live out the examples of what was getting what you know, like there were some people who were in the roots who did that to the extreme. Like it's a delicate balance, you know what I mean. You have cats who I mean, on more than one occasion, more than one member of the roots who we we travel they act like they ain't even they don't know. It's like yeah, like like dude, like we ain't fucking you gotta be Calicutta right now, like we all we got you, like you know what I'm saying, Like we didn't come together, but you know, and I think it was you know in that. I think people did that for some of the same reasons. But it's just extreme, you know what I mean. It's weird you mentioned the hook thing because there's one moment I remember, which was at Dyla's funeral, and I believe either John or my Duke's saw said like shot me, not shot me. Look, because everyone was sitting in the front row and of course, you know, me carries a flag for Diyler like I should be, but I wanted to sit in the back. And it seemed kind of odd because it was a large church, but it wasn't that many people. It was like maybe forty fifty people in a place that could hold like three hundred. Like dyl is buried in the same cemetery that Michael Jackson and Elizabeth Taylor are, so it's like a large, sprawling estate, but there's only like fifty people there, and I purposely sat like in the last row, like with seventeen rows like ahead of me, of emptiness. And at the time my girlfriend was like, well, why are we sitting back here? And I was just like, it's so foolish now. But my whole thing was like, oh man, I can't let Tarik see me in a vulnerable, weak moment, which is again I was whatever it is you can never hold pre twenty twenty meters. Now look at it, like, now that we've read the book and we have had these conversations in the last seven years, is about you know, I had moments reading that book, even when Trek was describing your home situation like with the past inside now you know what I remember when broke into my crib. What I remember by Dyla's funeral was yeah, definitely, you know, like just how you know, gargantuan, the sort of the space was. We were only in the first few rows and stuff. But yeah, I remember being like, Yo, where where the fuck is I'm here at you know what I'm saying. And then I just remember like when it was over. I think at one point like I connected Dave New York. When it was over, I hugged. I fucking cried, Like that was the first time I was able to, Like I hadn't cried the whole time of hearing you know what I mean, throughout the whole shit. I saw a mirror after the funeral and I just started balling start right, and it was such So it felt weird to me because, like I mean, teen, such a professional distance thing. But this is like, ah, shit, now I gotta switch the light on and go back to nineteen ninety one when we were born, you know what I mean? After that? Do you go back after the hug and he embrace? Does it slowly open up things? Or do you go back to So here's the funny thing, all right, So I'm in, you know, and I've shared my psychological journey and all that stuff. So I did a session once and I kind of slipped and she said, well, you know, what was Tarik's opinion on that? And I was like, well, it's cool, you know whatever. He said, no, no, what do you say for Batim? I said, well, he ain't say it, but it'll be cool. She's like, wait, how how long do you talk to Tuik? And she's the kind of person so she's the kind of person that if she sees a scab, she'll just start scratching, scratching, and it's like, yo, I got other issues. I got you know, mother issues. Let's talk. Yeah, right. She kept wanting to go there, and I'm trying to like matrix bullet dodge, and she clearly saw my discomfort and she was just asking basic questions like well, how long do you talk? Does do we know that like you're in therapy and da da da da, and that you're turning new leaf? And I was like, cool on man, where I'll touch you feel you know the thing like where you like you don't say like, oh I love you man? And you know. And I had a hard time just come to grips with myself, like looking in the mirror and all that stuff. And so what she the way that she sort of gets me. The part that I never reveal is her methods a little bit different. Let's just say there's a certain amount of cash, money and escrow in which I have to in this December, so I'm gonna have to start write a contract of what my goals are for twenty twenty four. And if I don't stick to that, then she will present my worst nightmare, which is, Okay, I'm gonna take this money and donate it all to the EP. No, no, no, no, okay, okay, I'll stop eating sugar. I'll stop eating sugar. And it's almost like she has to she has to mind trick and force me to do cause I'll just say like, yeah, i'll talk to him next week, next week, next month, next week. So here's the thing. So it's it's it's almost akin to that of like you know when you get a girl's number in high school and you're in the mirror, like I'm in the mirror my dressing room, like all right, so you know, I'm in therapy and like I'm rehearsing my lines like a week ahead of time and shit, and she's like calling me, all right, so what did UIK say about your thing? And I was like, all right, all right, all right, I'm gonna do it. I'm gona do it. She's like, I'm gonna take this money. And your relationship is a hostage negotiation hearing right, like I'm the person that has to be threatened to do the right thing, like I'll expose you if you don't, you know, take care of yourself. So I was like all right, I said, so uh and there's like doing the pandemic. So I was like all right, reek, yeah, so you know, I'm kind of doing self work and stuff and you know, microducing. Here we go, right, so I got my life together. I'm micro So I did like so I did like this whole ship and I mentioned one of the people and I was like, yeah, so you know, I'm reading this book by this guy named doctor Joe Despenza and he talks about how like communications like oh yeah, doctor Joe, Yeah, I'm done with that. And in my head, I'm like, holy shit, wait what does he know about that? I said, you know about that joke? It's like yeah, you know years ago when you know, when I first started therapy and the like holy shit, you're in therapy like I was. And when I got back, I was like, yo, I didn't know. I thought I was the only one like doing the self improvement thing, and treeks like beat me by like years really years? Really? Yeah? Yeah, he was like four years ago. I started in twenty twenty. He was like what was fifteen? Well, you know, I man, I've become close friends with a fellow named Kyle Vaines and Kyle. He worked with me and Mark Jenkins and Ray Angry. He was like a supplement dude. Well you know that worked at this you know, this gym that we were training that whenever Mark would come to work with D'Angelo, we would all, you know, I mean be working down in the financial district at this spot. So at one point Kyle dis closed to Ray and I about how his girlfriend at the time, his fiance was a huge Roots fan. You know, she was terminally ill and really the only thing that was getting her through was our song Tomorrow, the one with you know, Me and Ron Rahem and yeah, so you know, she she wound up, you know, transitioning. We all kept in touch, and as luck would have it, we were out in La I think, like her funeral, her memorial was like a few days before we would have been out there for Grammys or whatever. So me and Ray went out there early, performed at her memorial and became, you know, closer friends with Kyle. So Kyle and I, that's like he's my hiking buddy, you know what I'm saying. We meet up at different places around the country and you know, just go on walks and you know, he was always heavy into meditation, and when he started rocking with Joe Dispenser, he started sending me his meditations early on, and I couldn't get with it, you know what I'm saying, because the dudes he talks with, you know what I'm saying. But he just kept bombarding with the ship until you know, like I got one meditation that was it was you know, short enough for me to get into. And it was also it wasn't so long that you know, it started to because I tried to do it with my family and everything, and they was like, yo, I can't do this, Like why is dude talking that way? But once you get over how he's saying the shit, you start to see results and you start to feel, you know what I'm saying different. So yeah, I've been rocking with it for a minute. But that's how I got turned on to it, you know what I mean. And I think Kyle was the first person that gave me that book, Becoming Supernatural that is meditation? Is that still a practice today? That it is? But you know what really you know tripped me out, was I forgot I didn't even realize when I discovered Joe Dispenser's meditations that he was the same dude from that documentary. What the bleep do we know that he did the water experiment? You know what I'm saying, that doc that that Japanese dude does, who wrote you know, the hidden messages in water where you know, if I take a glass of water, if I take three glasses of water, say I take two glass of water from the same source, and I you know, you know, for a certain amount of time, a week or two weeks, just curse and talk down to this glass of water, and you know, I praised this container of water, and then we freeze them and then look at it under the microscope. You'll see that the water that I focused all the negative energy on is gonna, you know what I mean, produce just all these ugly sort of like you're gonna be able to visibly see the ugliness that I projected. Yeah, it's like I projected toxicity onto you know what I mean, this water and the water that you you know, praise and that you hit, you know, and focus your positive energy on, like the images of like you know, beautiful you know, one of one, like snowflakes. You know what I mean? When you look at it at the microscope because we're seventy made of water, right, human. So this dude who's meditations, he and I do. I was already a fan of his from the water shit. Yeah, I mean really years probably ten twelve years ago, and then I didn't realize, oh shit, this is that same dude. Then, you know what I mean? I started listening to really his podcast interviews and stuff because he was he was he was like paralyzed from the neck down from an accident, and you know, just through my control, he was able to you know, focus on different parts of his body and bring it all back, you know what I mean. So he's a he's the real deal in that. You know, he's still he talks with it though, so yes, he talks weird. But that was the thing, like I didn't realize that Treek was actually more advancing this shit than I was. Like I think I'm like bringing something like shit where man, motherfucker's going to start clowning me and you're all right, he was waiting on you to get here, right exactly, That's what happened. So yeah, I'm in that yah man doing white people shit right exactly. Yeah, because just doing the work and doing you know, as with most of us, discovered for a lot of us, doing the work is it's a vulnerable thing to put yourself through and oftentimes we're looking at ourselves through the eyes of what others will think about me and all that stuff. And it really wasn't until mid twenty twenty in which a lot of us were like, okay, mental health and you know, not just church or handle choice. And I got to just say, at least for your story read like you. You would hope just based on the surface of what we knew before you presented this book to us that you were in therapy because it always just felt like your life. It was heavy. Yeah, you know, I've definitely you know, I've done different sorts of therapy, and you know, I think this book just the process has been you know, it was like it was a therapeutic, cathartic sort of thing for me to work through. I knew I didn't want to write a tell all. You know what I'm saying like there is I'm still super private and there was much that you know what I mean, I just still hold close to the chest a lot of the ship. It's embarrassing, it's fucking it's you know what I mean, it's it's what was the hardest thing for you to in that realm? What was one of the hardest things it was for you to express in that book? The hardest thing I talk about in the book is, you know, firing the pistol into a building that I knew my mother was inside of. You know what I'm saying, That was you know, very it was hard, super hard. I mean, in that moment, you know, it felt it made perfect sense. It was so brave of you, and I appreciated you for introducing us to your mom. Yeah real she was, like, I mean, I've never even met a high ranking woman like, yeah she was. I was going to ask you another part in the book. You mentioned, you know, just relationships that your behavior, you know, you knew you kind of like kind of ruined in some ways. How did you go about fixing those relationships and what did that look like? You know some some of those relationships I haven't been able. You know, they've been irreparable, you know what I mean. And sometimes it's a hard pillar swallow, but you know, you gotta swallow it. Right. One of the religion, you know, I really I mean we would all hope that you be able to make it all good with like your nuclear family at some point. Right. So I was, you know, I did have hopes that I don't know, even though I refer to him as my half brother in this book, you know, I mean it's I only have one brother. So I was, you know, it was my hopes that he was going to read the book and I don't know, like that would be a springboard for some self revelation, some discovery within hisself that would lead to I don't know, some sort of you know, peace. But yeah, just as luck would have it, like the crazy shit was. I found out that they found his body, like I'm saying, my brother was. Yeah he I don't think there was any foul play, but he passed away. And I found out when I was in Philly to do a book event, like the first book event with Mark Leamon. So this is recent. This is this is recent. Yeah, but you know they yeah yoa. So So during this whole for the past two weeks, while I've been on this run, like promoting this book, I've been having to you know, shoot back and forth to Philly and figure out the funeral arrangement. I mean, you know he did. He never wanted the funeral or anything like that, but you know, just to get his remains, you know, cremated and that whole process. It's been a lot. And I didn't take any time off from you know, tonight show or any of that either, because I just been you know, just trying to choose my battle. So I just made it happen. But communicating. The last time he and I communicated was Man. Maybe it was It's been about two years or so, you know what I mean. He reached out, I know, like within the past like two months, he reached out, but he wasn't able to get in contact with Man. So one question I had, how do you I mean a mirrors talk about it as well, but like when you are the one in your family that makes it right, how do you go about setting up boundaries with your family in terms of Okay, this is what I can do, this is what I'm not going to do. How did y'all figure that out? I think over time, you know, those boundaries just sort of reveal themselves, right in situations where it's extended family, but with your parents, with your I mean I would imagine with your parents, you know, what I'm saying. But like with your siblings, with your you know, with anyone in your family who was close enough to feel that level of entitlement, it's crazy, like it could, you know, like it could. It's for for many of us, it's a deal brecker, you know what I'm saying. I have my brother on the salary for a long time, you know, where he was, you know, he never had to do anything and you just get a check every week, you know, And it was like, I mean, but I tried all different sorts of configurations of you know, trying to set him up up for self care and to be able to, you know, best take care of my grandmother too at the time before she passed away. And you know, to Noveil. You know what I'm saying, have your how have your your kids because you talked about briefly your older kids of course you're younger too, but how have they received the book or and are they aware of everything that you have put in that My daughter Celia, she read a couple of drafts and she's read the book, so she she has some weird Yeah, Sealiah's seventeen that my family will never read. He can't do she's read a couple of drafts and she's read the book, and you know, she loves it. She you know, she was brought the tears on a couple of different instances. But my other kids, I know, a mayor hasn't read it. I wanted to say that too, that was a mayor has not read it. And you know, I don't know what a mayor this year, Amir is a This is the way you just dropped that, Like everybody knows that Black Thought has a son named Mirror talking about that, but no, Yeah, he's about to be twenty four, and he was just always so you know, idyllic, you know that. I feel like now I'm just it's so shocking, like he'd be forgetting young. I mean, he's forgot my birthday this year days late, which is it's not huge, but it's like, wow, like this, who is who is this? You know what I'm saying? He like, oh my bad, pops, I've just been mushrooms. Right. But I'm sure he hasn't read the book yet because he's just you know, he's uh, he'll have to probably be up here for the holidays and in my presence and then he'll you know, crack it. You've had conversations with like a mirror and stuff about this evolution in these stories of your family and like how you up cycle. Yeah, yeah, you know, I try. I've always tried to, you know, just be be transparent with my kids about that from which we sort of you know, came. But yeah, it's hard to get them interested, you know what I mean. I drive around like, you know, this is why I went to school. I used to live like in this tiny structure, you know what I mean? This is how far. Let me show you how far I walked to first grade, you know what I mean. And I say, okay, we started here, and then I'm driving, drive and driving. They're like, we ain't get there yet, Like nah, and we drive. I'm not making this it up. Yes I was walking and maybe there was a path shovel through the snow, but maybe there wasn't, you know what I mean. And they just, you know, they lose interest. So I try not to impress it upon them. But I think it's because you know, they're just so they come up in a bubble. So there's that disconnect, you know what I mean, And it's it's part of what we do. This is This is part of the you know proverbial having overcome, you know what I mean. So the way that privilege, the way that entitlement plays out, it plays out in different ways, and it depends on you know, I think it boils down to you know, I mean, we all spare the rods now, but you know, I think it boils down to how much time has passed, maybe how many generations have passed, you know, since the rod has been has been spared. You know what I'm saying. But yeah, you know, it's wild. I try not to force it on him. But just a couple of weeks ago, when we were leaving a book event in Philly, I went to Philly to do something. Uh oh no, what the one I was talking about with Mark? And it was in my old neighborhood. So we were on our way home, and just as we were on our way home, my son, Tarik, who's eight, was like, he said, Joel, and then when next time we come to Philly, could we see you know one of the places used to live, like maybe the house that you burned down? And we were like two blocks away from there. So I got to now, because he had expressed interest, I took him to the block. I showed him, you know, where I went to preschool, showed him the house that I you know, set on fire, and where I used to go to the corner store and that whole thing. And you know, not that he cared, but I showed him whe Chubby Checker used to live. And yeah, but you know, now it's you know, he has a you know there was because he expressed interests. I think that memory but it'll sit with him in a different way. But yeah, my other kids they don't really, they don't be caring. Okay, I kind of want to carjack this interview. I know we're talking about the book, but also a big part of Tariq's existence is that in roots world, everyone knows a mirror, but no one knows Tarik. Kind of the ways where we're opposite is last night, I went to bed at four twenty am. I'm certain you were probably up at three am. What is your morning routine? I usually go to bed around nine or nine thirty. Who does that? Well, when you're not in third grade? But I got a son who's in second grade, and he'd be well, yeah, so you know, so it's all of your kids first and foremost, I have to be awake for as many consistent hours as possible just to police his sugar intake. If Tariq wakes up at six am and we don't wake up till eight, there's been two hours where he could just roll through the crib snacks, stashing shit, eating you know, candy for breakfast, and then I wake up at hey, and then it's a real shit, that's super real. Yeah, yeah, yeah, So you know, So there's that. There's also if there's anything you've talked about me wanting to watch the Guilt, If there's anything that I that I like to watch or that I want to read or work on or listen to, it has to happen before the house is up. So it works out that I'm in bed right after when Tarita goes to sleep at nine nine thirty, I go to bed, But then I wake up at like four thirty five, and then I'm good and everybody else is asleep, and I have an hour and a half to two hours, you know, to do whatever. Right what time do they wake up that they wake up at seven? They wake up at seven, And it's wild because that gives me anxiety. Celia has a seven twenty train to make it to school in New York City, and she gets up at seven o'clock and she still she has to walk the dog and be at the train, and I'm like, yo, how are you doing this? But she makes a happen, She makes a happy happen. She makes that happen. Michelle gets up at seven and, you know, to get to school every day at the absolute latest that he can arrive. You know, I know you're big on food. Are you the food person in the house? I am, Yeah, I cook. I do all the grocery shopping, and I cook almost well, eighty ninety percent of the grocery shopping, and I cooked eighty ninety percent of the meals. But yeah, also in the morning, I do that Joe to Spenders twenty five minute morning meditation. I knocked that out work out with you know physical Sometimes I work out, you know what I mean, Like when I'm in a workout period, I work out. But if that's the vibe, then then then I worked out nothing. When I was fresh off the LL tour, you know what I mean. And I found out that our mayor's trainer happened to live ten minutes from my crib and you know, we had gotten close on the road. It was like, yeah, cool, let's work out, you know what I mean. I did it for a solid month after we got off the road, and then you know, we trickled off, you know it. It's Thanksgiving. But yeah, I'll be back you know January. Yeah, anintuarady, no doubt. You know when in terms of your writing, like writing songs, writing rhymes, how often do you write and what does writers block look like for you? Well, I get home from work at night, I eat dinner, and then I go into my office and I write. I either try to read full least an hour or write full least an hour before I come back to you know, because my office is over the garage, so it's like it's almost like I come in the crib, I have dinner, and then they say, oh, you're leaving us, you know what. I'm out. It's like I go across the driveway and then I work, you know some more, and I do the same thing in the morning. So your office is outside the house. Yeah. On a writing note, I just want to I want to ask about this, this one hundred three thousand quote that he recently said. I was just talking about this with Pante too, where he said that at this age he's not doing hip hop because what does he have to talk about, like going is to get a colonoscopy. What do you feel about that? Because when I heard that in my friend we were like, yeah, we actually would like to hear about things, cause I think I think that's it. I think there are I don't really get writer's block like that. I'm always able to come up with something just because of the amount of of you know, constant like information, like the intake, you know what I mean, it's content being projected at me. You know, every turn, you know what I'm saying. I drive in, I'm listening to PRX, which is all twenty minute chunks of storytelling, which is dope because it just it gets me into just being a more efficient storyteller. I listen to NPR if I want to hear something along form. I listened to you know, Urban View for you know what I mean, you know, black people politics, and that's it. Like if I'll get no bars off, it's like that, right, I mean the black ego, you know what I mean. But that's the type shit, you know, that's where the bars come from. Whether I agree with it or not, you know what I mean, It's always a springboard, you know, like into a thing. Are you writing like to beat or you're just writing just sometimes I'm writing not to beats, but it's more exciting for me to write to beats. I got a batch your joints from mad Lib for example, like you know, maybe two three weeks ago he hit me. He was like, Yo, Monday, I'm gonna start bombarring with joints. Boom, Monday rolled around. He sent me like a hundred beats, you know what I'm saying. And then I got the beats and it was like I narrowed it down to like eighteen and I started, you know, vibing to those joints. But yeah, you know it's exciting now for me like to come home and like dig through that sort of that that that collection. I went to La. We were in this. We had a couple of sessions in La over the weekend. I came back. So that's sort of what I've been like chipping away at. But yeah, say we had is that Like no, I went I went to La to do a book event at USC But I'm gonna always you know, the studio is my church, Like that's why I feel most at home. So if there's any possibility for me to go and sit in the studio someplace and hear music and chill and smoke and be social, whether I'm actually actively working on the thing or not, then that's what I'm going to opt for, you know what I mean. So, yeah, I went out there, I did my book thing, and then I went into the studio. I was in the studio with man Rich Richard Nichols. We talk about undone today. Was is the anniversity of undone. That was the second time that I got called to be on the record and we did one time and that was the first time, was that one? And also how I got over That was the first time I really got to see how integral Rich was to the recording process because I had never been like in the studio with y'all. So I wanted to just hear from you, like what he was kind of to you as you know, as a mentor manager, Like what role did he play kind of? And you know, for me, yeah, Rich was a mentor. I've always been big on mentorship, you know. Yeah, I don't know where I would be, you know without it. He lived by example, you know what I'm saying, in many ways, and was you know, he was the roots, I mean, above and beyond an executive producer. I always talk about he was just sort of the brains of this operation, you know when he really, you know, laid down the groundwork for us to be able to you know, I don't think our Mayor and I would be as self sufficient as we are. I mean, had he not you know, been focused on that, you know, ten twenty years before it mattered to us, you know. So you know what he was was he was that, he was the he was on both of us. She was you know what I mean, and influence. Yeah yeah, and you know, just working with him, like having him uh in on the process. Uh. You know, I knew the ball. I was gonna always be at my best, you know what I'm saying. Always always. He was gonna always push us, even when you know you might it might be something that you you really feel like you you killed it and you you have taken it as far as you could take it. Yeah, No, he's gonna you know what I mean. He was the voice of reason and he would bring you back down to reality in that way. Talk about that you working with us in the roots? I was I felt threatened by you when you worked with this, you know what I mean, just because I was like, how was this? You know, Rich sent you back to the drawing board, but not as much as he was sending us, you know what I mean? And I know it wasn't you go and I know I know, I know it wasn't because like we were you know, I mean, his family. It was because he was just more content with what you were doing. So I was like, what the fuck is going to take doing that? You know what I mean? He only had to rewrite his ship like ten times, like you know, so this is the first time most of us are hearing that somebody could make either one of y'all rewrite. Rich was like, well, we came when out when I did the verse for one time, because the thing was it was the one time it was it was now or never first, it was now or never, And I came to do that one and I just wrote a verse because he would. I would I'm like, okay, so what's the song about? Rich? And Rich would send me like a chat for real. I'd be like, okay, nigg imad what none of this ship mean all right, I'm gonna And so I did my verse and I just did it, and what none of y'all. Y'all wasn't dead. It was just me and spawned in the studio. So I think even Richard left and so I did my joint and I'm like, all right, I think I don't know. I guess this works. And so I went to the crib, went to the hotel, and the next morning and he called me, and I didn't hear nothing because normally rich you know, he would text or I would get something to say, I ain't here shit, and I'm like okay. So he called me, He like yeah, man, uh yeah, I mean yeah, I'm gonna need you to go at it again. I'm like, all right, cool, And so I went again, and I remember the note he gave me was he was like, I wanted to make sense. It can't just be dope as a rap. It has to make sense on the page, like if you're just reading it it's poetry, you know, or its literature. It hasn't make sense in that way. And I was like, shit, okay, got it. And so then I did the second draft, and then that was when he called me back for the day with Blue. And when he called me back for that, I was like, hell, yeah, cause that was one like I loved it. It's like one of my favorite even without me on, that's just one of my favorite songs catalog. And so he did that one. But through all of those times, man, he was really because I understood, like I'm walking into a studio, nigga, it's you truck porn he was. When Poem was getting his ship, I would I would show up, like you know, and I was living in La at that of course, big up the dice. I would show up and they would, you know, because it was so competitive. They would all you know, clamor to get their ideas on the beat before I heard it, so that I was, you know, just more married to you know. That's how why the first experience the the you know, the composition, right, I would hear they were like, yo, you got to hit this beat, And the first time they playing it for me, I hear porn versus you know what I'm saying. So it was competitive in that way. But by the way, Greg porn case you know rag porn. But yeah, you know, Fonte for rich to even you know what I mean, be concerned enough to send you back to the drawing board. Man, I appreciate means it means that you were brilliant because he would, you know, just as quickly like nah, I mean we he couldn't give us what we needed and we would just you know, me move on because it was so many other people sort of waiting for that slot. But he was concerned with elevating you know, hip hop lyricism to literature and elevating you know, hip hop culture to fine art. And he was, you know, he was so disgusted. Always discussed with the state of black lyricism, like R and B lyrics like you know what I mean, the ship that you know he fucked over right rich fuck up, the whole family cookout, just dissecting, you know what I mean. Yeah, what we did. I remember what we did one time for undone, and I remember the note he gave me. He was like, you know, you have to be a character. He said, I don't want you to just rap this, Like you can't just be rapping, you know what I mean. And he played me when I first when I first got there, it was before you got in the studio. He played me sleep okay, yeah, and he played me sleep. I was like, oh, this shit hard, and he was like, man, RE did that like thirty times like I had him doing. I'm like, damn. So I went into do I did mine, and I mean it was in that particular case. The lyrics I got right because he was pretty much by that time, I kind of knew the science, so I'm like, okay, I see what he's going for now. But the performance, yeah, he drilled me on that shit. He's like, nah, I want you to do this word say it like that. I'm like, I you know now, you know I hate doing the lyrics. And you know what rich Rich would do with me sometimes he would, you know, just get me to do it that many times, and then he'd do a composite. That's when you do a composite of you know, the best syllables from you know, thirty different takes and then you know, he get this composite and it'll be That was the chat gpt of it all, because that was like, okay, now this is AI. But then he said, okay, so we can either use this composite, which you know, nine times out of ten I wouldn't want him to use just because it's a different sort of you know, feeling like there's nuance that is different. But you know, the composite will become the example and then it's like, you know, if you can't do it, it's dope, Like give me a take like this or better or the composite is what we're using now and that, Yeah, one hundred percent. Because with that, that kind of was something that changed my mind because for me, I know, as MC's we pride ourselves on getting it in one tape. Yes, like yeah, this is one tape. Oh yeah, which ever? Take? Which ever? Take? His right, that's the first one, that's the one. But like for him, I kind of started to see it more and looking at making records almost is like making a film in the sense of that you're really just trying to capture the best performance, you know what I'm saying it because you want to and down that's it, Like it's like that forever, you know what I mean. Was Rich just integrated in the live performance as he was in the studio. He was our sound guy. I mean even in the way that you presented just not just the sound of it all, but even the way that you y'all presented yourselves on stage. I mean, Rich built the myth of the roots because before us, you know, your average band was maybe ninety six DBS, which is like a normal listening spirit. Rich was trying to create some Pink Floyd shit where we were one hundred. Yeah, we were like one hundred and forty d B. He would like, I mean the whole idea of like echoes and all that stuff because because also the thing is is that we weren't hit space, so we had to make the show fall right. So it was he like like, I'm gonna need you to work the stage more like I gonna need you to he would give he would give notes like that. He would give notes like that. I mean, but you would be able to tell, you know what I mean, Like if we get done the performance and we get back to the dressing room, I'm like, yeah, how was that ship? That ship? You know what I'm saying. He wasn't going to uh, you know, he wasn't very generous in that way. So you know, even if he said that ship was cool, it meant it was cool, y'all right, Because I'm like, I remember the first, the first the only time I got a compliment from Rich and it changed my life. Like I got a question along those lines. I caught the four tour like a month ago. It was last It was in Boston, was the last one. And my favorite thing is not just you as the leader of the roots, but you was hype man. It was one of my favorite things to watch, like l and all of it was. I didn't know you were such a great hype man. Oh and it was what I just don't know if you could speak to that, and just but what it's like to be with some of your heroes are you know, people you really respect and hype and hype in front of them. It was it was far out, it was, you know for me, that's that's one of my favorite things to do, is to be supportive, Like you know what I mean. I just enjoy sparring back and forth with those legends. Like but people who you know, are the reason that I do what it is that I do, and many of whom just feel unsung or you know, underappreciated. It blows in mind, you know what I'm saying, to realize that something they wrote when they were fourteen or fifteen or sixteen that impacted me when I was fourteen or fifteen or sixteen. Now these thirty or forty years ago, it's still you know, has a life, you know what I mean. So, and you know a lot of these cats, I think the role that the Roots serves is we're connective tissue between a generation, right, you know what I mean? So, yeah, we've been that bridge. And there's a lot of cats who you know, maybe at one point of their career we're at a certain level and then they don't perform for a long while, and then when they have the opportunity to perform again, it's like, I you know what I mean, is my music going to be right? Do they know my lyrics? All these people familiar with what it is that I do, and you know the fact that they may be coming back with the Roots puts them at ease because of the way that you know, like musically and from a just a hypeman standpoint, we're able to support them, you know. So that's something that I've always you know, just appreciated and enjoyed it. I'm not about on stage trying to I don't want any attention on stage, like don't even look at me, look at dude, just you know, I'm about the sound. You know, so it works out for me in that way. But the Forces Tour was a dream come true and that we got to do that every day, you know. All right, So let me ask probably one of the biggest myths of black thought is your relationship with freestyling. There's three particular stories I want you to talk about, all right. I won't need you to do a forty five minute freestyle, okay, so of course I know that shout out to ESPO from Philly for catching uh that clip of us in the alleyway or whatever, like doing the freestyle thing, which is which basically set your legend. Can you talk about do you remember the time Scott Scott story? No, no, no, no, Do you remember that moment when we were at the Trocadero with Hansoul and we drove home and he freestyled that entire time in the backseat? I do Did that have an impact on you? Because the next day you said it once You're like, that's the level that I have to supend. Like, can you talk about like how if that had an impact on you as far as like rhyming on the spot, because I've seen you do it in high school but kind of in a funny way like battling. But there was yes to answer your question. I remember that night coming home from the track. I remember Han Soul freestyling, and I remember the way it made me feel, not necessarily threatened, but just you know, competitive, you know what I'm saying, The same way that I felt, uh when I came up and the first time I saw Rozelle and Supernatural and Muhammad performing at that boom poetic thing, right, I came back to Philly like it, what are you doing? You know what I mean? Like, fucking dude, you're awake and you're not rapping like like niggas in New Yorkers, they're like, yo, they fucking rapping right now? Dog Like you know what I mean, you gotta be able to go like off the top. But Toron, that's how I was, so yeah, I think, uh, you know, it was more of that, you know what I mean. I wasn't necessarily it wasn't like I didn't feel threatened, but I was just super competitive, you know, and I knew you know, people who went to college with me, people went to high school with me. There always tell you about oh this one time, you know, to regrap for three hours and we walked from here to here or drove from here to there, and he never stopped rapping. But there was something, There was a gravitas, there was a seriousness in it that night, and what Hans was doing that made me like, okay, like this is a thing. There was a level of mastery to it, you know what I'm saying. So yeah, I definitely, yeah, that was the takeaway. So can you give your version, like I know, richest version of the Kanye bathroom situation. Yeah, do you remember, And we were backstage at Universal Amphitheater, right, I didn't know who Kanye West was then, so I think like he just did get by like he was hanging with quality or whatever. And again, because of the legend of Treek's the best restylist ever, you know, motherfuckers would just come up and think, you know, the rappers that want to rap, just like yeah, I hate that too with musicians, Like musicians want to like, hey, let's have a jam session or right, you know, start drumming and talking and I'm like, I don't do that shit on my off hours or whatever. So Rich told me a story once about like you were changing for show whatever, and then Kanye decided this is my moment and just starts freestyle in front of you. Can you tell that story because I never heard your side. I mean you you know, like what like back in the day, we would show up for our sessions. Kanye would be in there sometimes, you know what I mean, eighty eight Keys would be in there. Sometimes they were down with Kenny Douro. They were down with you know what I mean. You know people who worked in studios wh would give him a heads up, you know on who had sessions, and they would be in there and trying to place their beats and and rap FO for niggas ambushers, right, And you know my thing with Kanye was I would I would run into him more while we were shopping. So I would be in Atlanta or Chicago or LA at the place where you knowever everybody goes to get clothes. Yeah right, yeah, so whatever the popping you know what I mean story is at the Barney's or you know Fred Sieg or whatever back in the day, and Kanye would always be in there and he would always see me. And now Kanye would be like, Yo, what you got you know what I'm saying. So he would be the type of person that he wants to see everything you putting on the counter, you know what I mean, And he want to go back and see if you want to get that or if you want to switch out. So I would, you know, be sometimes in a store or in like a mall and Kanye's there, and now I'm grabbing shit to try and throw him off the center of the trail, make him think I'm gonna get this stuff, and that's not what I'm gonna get. The night that you're talking about, we showed up to our gig. It was a Kon in the roots in Erica. If I'm not mistaken, and Kanye was dead, I forgot. Yeah, that was the first time I met a Kon. He was over enough with him and Kanye was in there, and he immediately goes into his shit. Oh shit, what's that? Oh you got them y threes? What's that? And he started like picking apart everything that I had on. So now I'm trying to get dressed and my whole shit. Like the reason why I was annoyed, it wasn't even that he started rapping or that he was talking about music. I was used to him doing that, but he was trying to you know, I mean like sort of tag picked my shit apart and be like, oh you got to this, you got to that, you got to that. Oh oh yeah, oh I'm up on that, you know what I mean. And it was like that was what I'm like, you just get the fuck out of here, like I'm getting dressed, nigga, Like I'm trying to you know what I'm saying. And I think that was, you know, that's what happened at university that night. I have a theory about the flex freestyle. Yeah I knew how hard you and Malik prepared in ninety three, like the mentality of like, yo, motherfucker's in New York are you know? We got to come with it. And I remember once like we were driving to New York and we were listening to like a best of Barbido and Stretch Armstrong thing and we were like, wait a minute, that's a B side. We've heard that rhyme before, wanted and it was kind of a there's no Santa Claus yeah realization, but you to still kept that. And I remember once you guys did a session which you did so many freestyles for all these name brand DJs that never wound up, like there's volumes of freestyles that you've done that are probably still Yeah, it was like one of the MCA like we're going to promote you know what I mean, like ye know for all of the radio Mixed show d right, Yeah, I remember. So for you knowing that was your first time after thirty two years of never being invited on Flex's show, were you and kill Bill. I'm gonna show you not to ever deny me again, because that wasn't regular, That wasn't just like oh by a minute seven, I was like, oh, this is a revenge mission. No, No, I wasn't. I wasn't really on kill Bill mode, you know, I was for me. I don't know if you recall that was a Thursday that I did that joint. It was we had taped to tonight shows, so I was tired. It was like twenty below zero, freezing cold, you know what I'm saying on farm parking. I had my assistem at the time, like outside waiting in my car like double parked. So it was just like the urgency of trying to you know, get in and out. And I knew, you know, Flex and I have been texting back and forth for maybe six months at that point, just trying to figure out a window that made sense. And what was that first text like when finally like he acknowledges that were not me five yeah, yoh no, no, I was you know, sorry, I was like, wow, you know what I mean? I think, Yeah, it was definitely. I was surprised. I was surprised. I was surprised. And you know, I don't know if I think leading up to that, you know what I mean, Flex's olive branch flex. His way to show that it was coming from an authentic place was he just started offering to spend fors like Yo, any boos, gigs, y'all got, I'll pull up. I'll just rock for y'all. You know what I mean. I don't know if you remember this is the moment that changed his mind. I don't know, but you know what I'm saying, We didn't you do another oh the method maybe the method Man thing, because even Jay hit me about the method. But by the time I did the methad Man free style flexing, I had already been talking for like, you know, damn near a year about me coming up to flex. The metha Man freestyle just took place. Because we were promoting that HBO show and you know, there's no way we could go somewhere and it's me and metha man, and they not ask us to rap, you know what I'm saying. But yeah, you know, when I did that flex freestyle, it was like, you know, I mean, roming off the top rapping period. It only matters to it. It's so niche, you know what I'm saying. So I just wanted to represent for those people who sort of gave a fuck, you know, and I wanted to It had to be one take because I had to get out of there, you know what I mean. I was ready to go home. And my fear is that he was just going to interrupt you and not let you finish. Yeah, that's enough, And I was like no, no, no, okay, he let him go on, right, But you know, for me, can you talk about did that finally feel like a redempt dimptive moment for you which finally got your flowers? It felt, yes, that moment, you know what I mean, like the moment that you know that followed, like would you do that night when you got home? Oh, I just jill probably you know what I mean a little bit and went to bed. Yeah, I went to Yeah, yeah, it was I need to say. I mean that I hate to say. I actually cried. No, it wasn't. It wasn't until yeah, it started to go viral and I you know, I saw folks re retweeting it and you know what I mean, like reposting the joint. That's when it started to feel like, oh wow, you know, because I never like I was still knew I guess the social media, you know what I'm saying, like, I just really started rocking, you know, with the Instagrams and twitters of the world, you know, relatively recently at that at that point, So yeah, it was it was just dope, you know what I mean. It's it's it's dope to be acknowledged to that point about social media for you know, you're saying, you know what, I'm on stage like, I don't want you to really see me at all. So how do you deal with now in the era of you know, of music just entertainment period where you have to have that prey of some sort, you know, some sort of presence online or I mean, it's it's it's just it's a delicate balance, you know what I mean. I do, it's just gonna sound crazy. It's like I basically do the bare minimum. You know, I do the bare minimum, and I'm able to still somehow feed my family. But you know, there's a bunch of a lot of what I do is also in exercise, in overcoming you know, the anxiety associated with you know, doing shit, you know what I mean. So when I do, like if I force myself to go and do a hot type five of stand up, like that's a you know, an exercise in me, you know, just becoming more comfortable to my own skin in front of an audience without having any safety net, you know, the same talk about that because I feel like a lot of people don't know that you're heavy into stand up. Yeah, yeah, you know I got I got heavy into stand up. I got heavy into you know, musical theater when I was you know, when I'm working on Black No More. That's what I'm doing a series right right, it is, it's still you know, still a thing, and I'm now you know, heavy into I mean, I mean, I think the medium with which we tell the story is ever evolving, but the story sort of remains the same, you know what I'm saying. How do you. I was gonna ask you about just your memory in terms of memorizing. Yeah, Like how do you go about just memorizing all of those Like when you're doing the Roots picnic and you're something once, Yeah, you just do just aric a verse, Like you just come up and just do a verse or something. How do you just I guess log all that stuff. I don't know, man, it's like you, I think I'm using a part of my brain that is, I don't know. I'll just tapped into, you know, something that probably would otherwise have laid dormant if I didn't sort of force myself to, you know what I mean, work with something outside of my muscle memory. Wait, so to that point the book, I found myself reading this and being like, fuck, I know smokes, but the details well not as much anymore though, right, not much places, a little bits enough. But you know, I think that's attributable to Rich Rich's genius too, in that, you know, just in the storytelling as a writer. You know, he would challenge you to be as visual as possible and the conjure up that that imagery, you know what I'm saying, to make you see and feel and smell a thing. But to smell something like you're a six year old, six year old self, that's deep and to be able to describe that on paper. Yeah, yeah, I guess it is. So I have a question. So I'm writing a tell all book right now actually about about the two of you. Do you have any advice for somebody who wants to know? I'm just kidding, but and when's the the rematch? The fight rematch? The audience wants to know that it's it's going to be a love hucks, but we want to know when the when the remattress or whatever? No, no, I mean, what are you allowed to talk about as far as Black No More is concerned, because oh, we can talk about it's so weird. Like when you started Black No More, Obama was president, so sort of in that House of Cards way, like you clearly knew it was going to be a satire because you know, it's never going to get that crazy, right, And then suddenly once Trump was president, then it was like, oh, this is relevant to times now. So at one point it was an extreme satire and then became reality. Yeah that's the thing, you know, I mean, at this point it's it's not as far fetched as it was or as it felt you know, you know before the Trump and Biden administrations. You know what I mean. This was originally slated to you know, to open off Broadway during the Trump elections, you know what I mean. So yeah, I mean I think this, you know, rejiggering that you know, it needs to take place. There's you know, very much that we need to sort of be revisited. But just you know, for for the fact that you know, what felt so dynamically sensational six years ago, eight years ago no longer feels that way. It's like that has been our reality and worse, you know what I mean, so much off the wall shit has happened. Yeah, for those don't know. The Black Memoir is a book written by George Skyler. Yep I thinking like it was like one of the first half of her futurist books I nineteen thirty two. Oh wow, yeah, and he basically, uh, it's just it's a satire about a black man who changes his skin color, falls in love with a white woman and now she's pregnant, right, and she will eventually find out that which this that that's that's a show that was on Bravo last night right, you know what I mean, It's like, you know, how do we how does he know because he watches Bravo but it so yeah, yeah, we gotta we gotta sort of punch it up a little bit, I think, just to make it more you know, as far fetched said as it felt. Uh, you know at its own set. Actually, you are one of the most random TV watching people. I know, Like what are you watching? And how do you pick? Because you and Jimmy will talk about the most random you'll discover ship on QB or whatever like Tubby. To me, I was like QB QB was a that was quibi? Yeah that was that lasted like ten minutes. Yeah, Like what mindless ship do you watch? Or like what's what shows right right right now I'm watching, I'm watching you know bass Lowman bass Reads. You know what I'm saying, Lorman bass Reeves is uh is about this US Marshall first, the first black US Marshall. Really it's the character. It's the real life person that the Lone Ranger character was based on, you know what I mean, which is based on a black person. Yeah, the Lone Ranger was based on the black person. But you know they weren't gonna have it. I mean they're like, yo, let's make it a black a white man and put a mask on. Uh. But yeah, so Bass Reeves. Uh, it's this dope show that I've been watching recently, yellow Yeah, it's in the Yellowstone family and all worth it. Yes it is. This is what else I was gonna say anything Yellowstone eighteen eighty three. That's level. I must watch different, different, different, you know what I mean. I think I'm always excited when somebody could get period right, you know what I mean. And they got period right, you know what I mean every time. So and also the inclusion of the indigenous culture and just giving us more context be human. Yeah, that's they gotta run. So I'll go on Apple TV and you see, yo, watch it. I'm watching that. I'm watching that now, Bass Reds, I mean Lowman, Bass Reads. I'm also watching well yeah, the Gilded Age and saying, have you seen Killers of the Flyer Moon yet? No? I hear it. Yeah yeah I haven't watched that yet. But Fargo, the new season of Fargo, Yeah yeah, yeah, four episodes in. Yeah, but you know what I'm saying, And I've been Uh, I keep coming back to just because it's like I can never Even though it's only three episodes, I think they're like an hour and a half long each. The American Buffalo documentary Kim Burns, which is, you know, it's not just about the Buffalo, you know what I mean, it's really about America and you talk about indigenous people and I'm just a history buffer that way. So I've been rocking with that. I found out that it was out because Celia came home. She was like, they made us watch this documentary today in school. I'm sure you would be into it. Was like, I was like, what is it? She was like about the American Buffalo. I was like, do tell it was Kim Burns, And I was like, ship, like, you know, hell yeah. So I've been watching that only because I have to watch it Burns documentary maybe like five six times to you know, take in all the information you thought with rap shit on HBO. I watched the first season. Second season is better. I mean, the first season is good, but the second season is it's good. I have I have I haven't seen every father's impression of their teenage daughter is exactly the same. Because I think you're right, yeah, right, exactly. Yeah, do your kids like, are they aware? Are you dad? Are you or are they like do you catch them listening to your music? Or yeah, you know I aren't you worry for them? No, No, I catch a Mayor listening to my music. You know. He does his little playlist and stuff, and sometimes even his playlist of other music that he's listening to in the shower and all that. You know, it's dope to see that he's somehow found music that I was listening to when I was in my twenties two without me having to say, let me put you onto it. So there's that. It's a leid, you know, does this same thing, you know what I mean? She listens to my music, She has a little bit, you know what I mean. Yeah, she's becoming a hip hop here. But Tarike, he's never been into any of Mommy. The only root song, roots thing that Tarik has really that has resonated with him, not our Disney Junior stuff as what you would think. It's the Blackish thing. So the June Team Blackiest thing, that's you know, uh, And that put him on to the whole Schoolhouse rock world and he started listening to the original I'm just the bill and all the original Schoolhouse rock shit and then the new Schoolhouse rocks you and then the new New Schoolhouse rock shit, all just from ours year, from our Blackish segment. So this is that, you know what I'm saying, but what he's up on and what I'm still trying to dissect because it played out the same way with Kamala's kids, who were like, you know, two and six or two and eight, No, Tarika is eight. Maybe Kamala's kids the youngest kids are two and six. They all know every word that Mama said knock you Out, and they've owned They saw l performing a couple of times that they came to the shows with us. But for some reason, this is the first rap song Toreek known all the lyrics to Camar's Little Baby. You know what I mean? Cash Like, they all listen, they know all of the from Don't Call It A And I'm like, that's what I need to tap into, you know what I mean. It's like, Yo, they don't be my son, but we talked. I've never heard the show. None of my children have ever sang one of my joints the way to Reek sing Don't Call It a comeback. I'm like, yo, like out of a mad physical movements in the right. Yeah, there's definitely something in that that and that's what Yeah, and that's why I told you. I was like, Yo, we need to use that joint that we did want to yo because there might be something in that. And I don't know if it's the music or the lyrics or the marriage return. Yeah, yeah, my okay. So you know, we redid Mama for the NBA mid season, the mid season tournament, and the my initial idea, I knew they wanted Mama said knock you out. But also LL's kind of this place where it's like, yo, man, I'm not a legacy act like that sort of thing. But you know, the people that write the text are like, nah, man, we just just do your song from nineteen ninety please and take this check. So I was like, all right, let me find a happy meeting. So I actually did something dope where I reversed because I'm also working on the Slide movie. I have access to the masters, so I was like, all right, let me reverse the song. And you know, like what Terminator actually edge Panic was to rebel without a pause, like the sirens going backwards so I did a backwards version of shit and it sounds dope as shit, and even LLL was like, uh, let's let's not give this to them, like listen, even l I was like, God, it's great, right, So it am I mean, because I mean we see you working, you know, I mean you you know, been dropping projects left right in terms of you know, a roots record. Now that Rich is no longer here in that role, who is in that role? For yeah, there is you know, I don't know that there's anyone in that role, y'all think I think no have to be. Yeah, yeah, we've We've had to extend ourselves, not necessarily over extended, We've had to extend ourselves in order to fill in that gap. You know, because Sean, though he is he's he's an innovative, He's not necessarily a creative, you know what I mean. He's a business mind. He's an innovative mind. He's not a creative. And that was the beauty of the balance between him and Rich was like, you know what I mean, hot and cold, you know. So yeah, so there's that. But I think in terms of an album being done, I think we got plenty of material. I think it's just gonna boil down to you know, I may or not being excited enough in any moment to do the mix is necessary to say all right, this is the ten songs or twelve songs or however many that are gonna be album. But we got enough joints. You know, we have more than enough. I just for me once a week, I guess excited about something else, and then I'll replace it and replace it and replace it. That's the problem because really would and Richbn want to come in and be like mother, it's just like in your dreams thing, then in your dreams thing got shelved because it's just like, look, we got to wrap up. Do you want more? We're not going to get this ship done in time. So that's the one thing I don't have, which is like, all right, no more new songs. There's there's there's value in our procrastination in that, you know, once we put out anything, then it's out right right now. The bar is where the bar is. What the Roots brand means to people is what it means. So yeah, I think there's something in that. I think the whole what makes the Roots the Roots is the fact that we've always you know thought and then overthought right in the process. So I think now the idea is to pull it back a little bit. We don't need to overthink, but I think we still need to be as considerate in the process as we you know, have or in the past, because that's that's the difference when people say, yo, what's the difference in me in the roots? In me on somebody else's shit, is like, I'm just gonna pull up and I'm gonna almost go with the first thing that comes to my mind. That's why streams of thought is called streams of thought because it's like, it's as close to a freestyle as you know what I mean, I'm just letting the it's the first thing that I think of, which you know and many times is dope, and you know it's witty and funny, but it's not what we do in the roots. It's not rich challenging me to you know, something that's gonna fucking you know, resonate just reading it off the page. That's not what I have to do. If I'm in the studio with Ninth or Salime or Sean c. And that's part of you know, that's what informs it and makes it it's a dope exercise because it's not as it's not something that I won't say. I don't take it as serious. But it's just a different process, I understand, you know what I mean. It's a different process, you know. So I mean I think in that like, you know, the roots album, especially based on what dictates enough material to be an album in this day and time, we've got multiple new roots albums done. What do you feel like or do you feel like y'all have anything to prove on the album front? Like what would be the So the one thing that has occurred to me and then you shoot your cousin came out in twenty fourteen. So we're going on the tenth year and I probably have done twenty thousand hours of DJing. Now, the DJing that I've done post twenty fourteen is different than the dj and I've done pre twenty fourteen, in which, you know, jams are far and few between, and I'm the kind of guy that unless like I'm doing a gold party or like it's a high pressure situation where it's like all right, well Drake, syah, so let me play some trap like the shit he knows, I'm always the guy that like, I now know how to read my audience in a way that I didn't before, Whereas before I was obsessed with letting you know, yeah I got that Japanese printicolege that you don't got, and you know, I'm not looking at the floor clearing and none of that shit. I'm so I'm so hyper aware of what works and what doesn't work as a DJ that now as a creator starting to bleed into I can't divorce myself from her. So now I'm thinking of like is this the right bpms? Where's the melody at? What should we talk about? Like things I never thought about before, like well this resonate with the audience in recent years, you know, like when a mayor gives me a beat or like an idea for a composition, he does a whole separate track now of just like a guide track of him saying okay, like you know, the okay, the verse can start here, you talk about this here and then okay, like here you can do something like what was like now I'm like Nigga just right around. But yeah, he's definitely you know, just paying attention to a lot more of the detail with anything that I think that's a good thing. I mean, it's a beautiful thing. Yeah, because you have new information. Yes, I'll be calling you Jordan. Oh, I mean okay, but I sit, I concentrate. But also like the movie was unexpected, Like you know, the movie was a thing that, oh, let me just pass the time in the pandemic, and now it's like, oh god, now I got two careers. So both of y'all, y'all schedules are crazy between the both. Okay, So I'm trying to think of things that, like the Internet always wanted to know. I'm not asking any masterpiece theater questions because it's like, dude, he's done like swimming records. But what I will ask is what five m sees that are least expected for us to know? You dig because the second time we talked about rap shit, he sold me on turn this mother Out. And I'm like hammer and I joked, I joked once on what had happened was that I'm almost certain that our love of Apache or rhyming over Apache had more to do with Turn this mother Out than it did men at work. But Tarik is like instantly Tarik sold me on it. Yo, you know about n W A and I'm like, dude, they got Jerry Curls. I ain't listening to shit, and he's like, but listen to this, and then he played me turn this mother altum like you like MC hammer. I didn't. I thought like great, nice was corny and he's like, no, man. But that's the thing, Like Tarik has a way of listening to anything, like I go on the tour of b US and listen to A Paul and MJG. Yeah, I was like, I never listened to Pastor Tchoy in this lifetime, and then suddenly like I'm Pastor Joy's number one fan. So it's like Tarik's put me on to so much unorthodox things that normally my snobby East Coast era ass like what what EMC's are, Like, you're under championed, non obvious ones, non kine non like of from back in the day or just period Karen, you know, I think Special Led is an unsung you know hero in that you know his album The Youngest in Charge, you just talk about just the power of youthful expression, and he was especially that was fourteen years old. I look at my kids at fourteen. It's like, you know, I when it's like if I'm in a moment where I have to just rap a rap, I'm gonna pull from you know, anywhere, I rapped from anybody's catalog, shit that you don't even remember you wrote. But one of the you know rhymes that I often do is, you know, I was proven effective by a clinical test because some couldn't come to believe I'm the best, so they tested me, and now they're in the clinic. They almost arrested me because I did it, but I didn't mean to do it. You had to mess with me and then you blew it. Now you gotta chew it, swallow it all. I guess that's the way that you bounce the ball like this is a fourteen year old wrote that, and that's that's timeless, Like I can, you know, depend no matter what the soundbit is, the music that I put it over, like those bars will forever like rain poetic and you know what I mean, like bring something up and folks that hear it? Who was my one? You wish you could that was my That was another? I mean especial levels, just super dope. So I think he's he's one of those ones. I think, you know, cool Keith, you know what I mean for the whole. I think cool Keith Man ship. I mean he was like, you know, the thelonious monk of this ship in that you know, I mean, his ship didn't even have to rhyme, you know what I'm saying. And they they were him and said like ultra magneticum Seas were ahead of their time in so many ways. So yeah, I think, you know, cool Keith is another one, Greg Nice, you know what I mean, He's I think just geniuses that I was able to recognize and latch onto, and that it's something from their body of work that I've extracted that, you know. I mean, I still these are I kicked all of all all of the above. I kicked their bars every day, like this ship just came out. Anybody currently, Yeah absolutely, I mean you know, we will sell you in the roots the force to use rocking ma comedy and yeah, yeah, Macky, that's that's my ace, you know what I'm saying. He was in the studio with It's just the other night Mark, you know. Yeah, I think he's one of those ones, you know, someone who again understands just a sensibility of you know, a person who's been around since the nineties, but who's also in just some ways just feels you know, still cutting edge, right, and I think his association with the whole Griselda family and that movement, but the way that he's distinctly you know, different, is huge too, you know what I mean. I saw you did. We were on the same album, Your Old Drew. That's that's the second person I was about. The name man's yeah, and your Old Drew is is actually he's my connection to my COMI. But he's another one. You know. When Your Old Drew came out, I didn't rock with it because I felt like, yeah, I thought his voice, I thought he sounded too much like Nads and I'm not you know, I'm huge on you know, just you know, being being originally you know what I mean. And I was like, nah, you know, I'm not rocking with this shit, like you know, I think it was Hoodie season or one of those first joints, you know. But I met him on the road opening up for Royce and Premiere when they were doing their prime tour and we sort of hit it off. And you know what I mean, I've been you know, I talk about mentorship and you know, just artists that we shared demos with one another, and I'm able to just you know, offer sage wisdom and they're not gonna catch feelings if I say I don't like this one and I like that one. He's been one of those artists and over time, you know, I was trying to get at Mock and he was non responsive until Drew put us on the same song and then you know, like sort of connected us, you know what I mean. Then now, yeah, you know, he and I, me and Mark be rocking. But yeah, you're old Drew. He's another one man. He's just super dope. And uh, you know I had to. I had to give it up, you know what I'm saying, because he proved that he was a real deal. I need everybody to realize, who hasn't read this book, that we probably only covered about two to three of his talents. Now in this book, there is history that gives you history on his gourmet cooking talents because yes, he's a gourmet chef. There's history to his visual arts talents because that's what he went to school for. There's also history singing talent. Just about to stay that the man signing the I was shocked. I was like but I I can sing fine, taking sad, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, But I just I just wanted to throw that out there as we are, you know, wrapping this up, and I just feel like it's just what most people say, read the book, read that. But noah, Man, I just want to say, Man, before we go, dude, you have really been you know what I'm saying. I mean, first to even say that you felt threatened, I mean, that's just the crazy shit. Ever, because when I got that call, I I was jumping off the damn wall. I was like, what, like hell yeah? So but nah, man, you've been one of the people that I watched just and has been an example of how to age in hip hop, like how and how to do it gracefully and tastefully, you know what I mean. So my question for you was who or did you have anyone as an example to say, Okay, this is what hip hop looks like at forty or fifty, like, this is a model. Did you have that? I mean, you know, not that I didn't. I mean, yes, I did have that, but I don't know that I was as aware of it or just tapped into the example as it was being set. But you know, I look at people like you know, the ll who J's of the world, and even though it's been a long time, you know what I mean, since he's done a tour, right, you know what I mean, just the example of being one of the earliest like multi hyphenis right, you know what I mean, just the whole polymath of it all. Like with the example of him in iced Tea, you know, like set as far as like reinvention, I think it was dope and I think, you know, just you know, the example of being a class act, you know what I mean is what resonated with me, like the most with artists, like you know, the reason LLL is around and still matters and you know, like people care, you know about all these other endeavors. What it is that he's doing is because he's personable and he's you know, he's nice to folks, and you know, he you know, is conscious about leaving a place or a person or thing better than he sort of found it. And I learned that the first time I inducted like we inducted maybe even ducted ll into like three you know what I mean, National Archives at this at this time. But but the first time I did it it was me and Eminem and Jazzy Jeff and it was like the Hip Hop Honors thing and he called me the next day. I'm like, he found my number, you know what I mean? Boom you know they called Meik's on the phone for you. Yeah cool Jay. I'm like, yeah, yeah, I just want to thank you for you know what I'm saying, Yo, the wave represented be last night huge huge, like yo, but it's those, it's those you know, Elverson call you. L Ella is going to send you a handwritten thank you now, you know what I'm saying. You know, sent l L A d M. Jokingly like, yo, I see everybody you know doing these boom box I'm boxing they you know, uh uh rock the bells jackets with my joint at like you know, ship seventy two hours later, this is from Mellow Cool J. You know what I mean. I got my jacket and you know, yeah, yeah yeah, it's just like h I think I think you know that that is an example of how to you know, to age, to grow, to evolve gracefully in this game. I think another dope example has been set by Dana like Queen Latifah. You know what I'm saying, just you know, and these are people who like what they do. The challenges that they're able to continue to rise to is what gives me reassurance. Like, yo, I probably could do all the shit, you know, out of all the people that I know, right, I've never known anyone in my circle or even remotely you know, distantly connected to my circle that has never given up on a thing and didn't you know, make it. You know what I'm saying. It's like everybody that I know who shit didn't work who you know what I mean, fell off the rails, they gave they gave up, quit, they quit, niggas who I know. I know a bunch of people who didn't quit, and they've all gone on to greatness, you know. So I think there's something in that. And yeah, I try to, uh, you know, just be more cognizant of those examples again, like when they're being set, because you know, a lot of the shit is a blur. Nah man. Look, I will say with out beings as mushy as possible, and this is this, this and this is real maturity right here. Well to reque you know, no one ever gets that reference. No, no, no, no, here's the deal in my first book when they were like, all right, do a dedication and moment right right, and there was like do a dedication and I was like I just want to say well to Reque and that's it, and you know, the publishers like, well lips this after it, I said, he's going to get He's going to understand. No, Like well to Req was always and the way that manifesting works is whenever we would like to take the trains back from like busking or whatever, like we would have a ritual of like getting famous aime As cookies, getting orange juice and either watching Do the Right Thing or Cape Fear and as we're walking home like two in the morning, very related films. I'm with it. I just did a streaming. But we have options now we have, you know. And the thing was I do some sillies with like well Toeriq Man. We just did like two months in Europe straight. But I'm saying shit as if it would never going to happen to in lifelie like damn Tiq. We just playing in front of like twelve thousand people at the Philadelphia Spectrum Man and we're only home for like three hours before we got to get up at four in the morning and catch this flight to like Colorado. We be laughing like ah man, this's whatever, and not knowing that we're literally manifest. So I would always start some shit with well tariq uh and I'll just simply say thank you, and that's a very loaded thank you without being super mushy about it. And I'm a mushy person. Good just fight again. Yeah, yes, and fran Mama here, thank you. Thank you all for having me the great three Tota or Inquest Love Supreme. You guys can stop to ask me as episode. See you the next go around, y'all. Thank you. This is Sugar Steve. Thank you for listening to Quest Love Supreme. This podcast is hosted by a Mere Quest Love Thompson, Liya Saint Clair, Fonte Coleman, Sugar Steve Mandel, and unpaid Bill Sherman. Executive producers are a mere Quest Love Thompson, Sean g and Brian Calvin. Produced by Britty Benjamin, Jake Payne and Liah Saint Clair, Edited by Alex Conroy. Produced for iHeart by Noel Brown and Mike Johns. West Love Supreme is a production of iHeart Radio. For more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.