Preparing For College

Welcome to Real Life Momz. I'm your host, Lisa Foster and Real Life Momz is a podcast about real conversations and real-life issues that parents deal with every day. Our mission is to connect moms by talking about these topics and to continue these conversations through our Real Life Momz Facebook group, where we would love for you to become part of our community. And this week, I invited Becky Gruber to help answer some questions that I had about how to get our kids ready for college.

Hi, Becky. Welcome to Real Life Momz.  Hi Lisa. I'm so glad that you are willing to talk with me today because I have so many questions about our topic. So our topic is college, all of it, everything from like, how do you apply? How do you deal with your kid leaving the house, SATs, how do you prepare? Like I've got it all for you today. And, and honestly, like, I mean, my kid's not there yet, but like, I feel like it's really close. Like it's like before I blink, she's going to need to apply, and I have really no clue, but you do have two kids.

One is already in college, right? So there you go. You're an expert already. Total pro. I mean the other one is she's starting to apply or she's like getting ready to apply.

Yeah. She's getting ready to, so she's in the thick of the sat prep kind of world and thinking about making a college list mode right now.

Okay. I think my daughter has made a college list, which I think is so funny because she still has like, you know, two years or so before this, but, but yeah, she's already made college lists, but it's all based on what colleges look like, like how pretty they are, how much grass they have, like that kind of stuff. Or Palm trees is a big plus. So I'm not sure, but for someone like me, who's really like has no clue. And just starting, I think like if we can just start from the very basics, like your kid is entering high school and I have to ask this question, cause it just has always weighed on me.

And I know we talked about this when my kid was entering high school.  I asked you about classes, but like, you know, you got the advanced classes and you got this international baccalaureate program and then you've got regular curriculum. Right. How much do you feel how important these different divisions are, even applying to college? Do they even look at that? Is that important?

No, I think the thing is that they, it depends on what kind of college and what sort of curriculum and what interests your kid has. So, um, if you have a kid who's super driven and knows that they want to be a physician or, um, an engineer, study math or science, you know, it can be really helpful to have that IB diploma. Um, if they're looking at wanting to go to an Ivy League school, um, or study overseas, then the IB diploma would be crucial.

But for your average kid, I think from my experience with both of our kids has been, a mixture of AP or IB classes along with what's called just college prep at, at our local high school. Um, and that seems to be a good mixture, at least for our kids, with managing of extracurriculars and having kind of a, I don't know, just a manageable schedule with homework and, um, what they feel like they can manage on a day-to-day basis.

Um, anything else they're juggling and then also feeling like they can, take the harder classes in subjects that they really can soar in and then get those extra, credits, you know, that go toward their, their GPA and so forth. So that helps with, with applying to schools.

They get a weighted GPA for the AP classes. Is that right? Yeah. And so,  does the college actually see their, I guess real grades or if they got a B, but it's weighted an A, are they seeing just the A or do they see both? Or what, what does that look like?

 I don't know. I think they see both, I think they see a weighted and an unweighted GPA, most schools I think, do want to see both. Yeah. I mean, like when we went to college there was no such thing as a weighted grade, like you didn't go above a 4.0, so I know yeah. Seems strange to me, but.

Yeah, but that's what I was thinking. I was like, well, okay, so take a regular college prep, a regular class and you get an A in it, and that looks great. But then if you take an AP class, cause you want to do that and show whatever. Um, but you're getting like a C in it, you know, because it's harder and it's maybe too much work, and you're just not thriving. And now it's weighted a B I'm like, well, does that look better for college? Like, to me, I'm  that doesn't look better for college to have a B you might as well just get the A in the regular class, I don't know.

So that was just interesting, I think, because there are choices. And so what you're saying, what I hear that you're saying, and that you think you think we know, we don't all know the answers and that's okay. Is that if you're really thinking of like an, Ivy League school, one of the real top schools, um, and then these higher-level classes could be as a benefit, but if you're thinking of, you know, your typical college or a good college, then, you know, even just a mixture or just even the normal curriculum is great.

 I think my mentality in terms of, high school and college and life in general and parenting in particular is, that you have to have a balance, right? Like, um, if you are a kid who is so bright and so motivated, and taking all AP classes is totally your thing and it makes you, all lit up inside, then that's great. For our kids having a balance of classes is kind of a metaphor for what we hope for them for life in general is that you would have, you know, that there are things you excel in and things that are harder. And so you figure out the balance and that the college you go to should be able to, um, embrace and encourage that same kind of balance. And so, um, you know, if you're, if you're a kid who wants to go to an Ivy League school and it feels like that that is your dream, and that's the kind of curriculum you can handle then great.

But yeah, if it feels like more than you can bear it in high school to try to juggle all those really hard classes, then to me, it seems like, um, in the cost benefit analysis, it doesn't, it doesn't, go well for mental health and just for overall happiness.

Yeah. I agree. I agree. I feel like, I feel like the AP, like that advanced classes, the IB programs they're really meant for those kids who really love. I feel like when my daughter was thinking of what to take and what not, the teacher would say, does she love that subject?  I'm like, she doesn't, I agree. I'm glad she's doing well. And I'm glad you can recommend AP or the advanced class, but she doesn't love it. And if she doesn't love it, let's stay normal because the normal she's not going to struggle and normal, she's gonna rise herself up because she is getting good grades in those classes without the pressure.

And you can enjoy it and then enjoy other things and feel good about herself. So, yeah, I think those classes are really meant for those kids that  love that subject, and they're meant to challenge some kids, but some kids just taking it just so they look better, maybe in college maybe is not the way to go.

So like an example from, for us from this year from the fall was, um, when our daughter was in advanced math and was doing fine in it, but then decided she wanted to do a really cool extracurricular course in screenwriting through an online school in New York. And we decided she really decided and advocated for herself that she would like to move down to regular math so that she would have the time and energy to, or into doing this other thing that is really her passion.

And so that seemed like really modeling that kind of balance that we're hoping the kids can live up to.

Yeah. And great for her deciding that on her own. Yeah. So, okay. So your daughter, she is in the process of the SATs, right? Yep. Um, okay. These things, they freak me out because I remember the SATś back when I was a kid. Not so great. I'll be honest. And I had a lot of room to improve. So, um, how are kids studying for these? I feel like they just pop up in the spring and they say, oh, here's the test we're ready.

My kid is about to take the PSAT; there's no studying going on at all. I see that there are books out there. I have a book; it's in the closet, it's in her closet. Um, there's no reading of it. So curious about the SATs, um, is she studying? Do they take them cold?

Talk to me. Yeah.

So, um, let's see, you know, there's the SAT and the ACT.  And, um, my understanding is that they're pretty similar in a lot of ways; although they test different, they, they sort of test differently. And so the recommendation, um, that I got from a friend who is in fact a pro at all this stuff, was to have the kids try an ACT and try an SAT and see which one they liked better. And I was like, yeah, my kids are not going to spend three hours, six hours total practicing taking these courses, and deciding are these classes, these tests and deciding what they're going to prefer. So I just looked at kind of what the SAT is more sort of known for and what the ACT is sort of more known for.

Can you share that with us? Cause I don't know.

I think if memory serves, um, ACT is more science-based.

Okay.

I'm pretty much making that up. So you might want to look that up.

I kind of remember that a little bit from back when I took them. 

Just literally Googling what the difference between SAT and ACT. So with our son, he, and the manner of all eldest children everywhere, just, we just sort of figured it out as we went with him and with our daughter, it was more like, oh, I guess there are options. Or maybe we should research this. Um, so we didn't even think about the ACT for him. We just said, oh, SAT.  And he did it. But for both kids, we actually did do, um, a course.

So we signed them up for classes, um, just outsourcing the, studying to an organization that is proven to know how to do that and teach kids how to basically navigate the game that is standardized testing. With our son, we were sort of extra ahead of the curve. Um, and he took, he ended up taking his SAT way early, um, because we wanted to give him a chance with him. We really thought it would be great for him to get a score early. And then if he wanted to be able to work toward a higher score, he could. Um, so we've just sort of bought him a ton of time basically by letting him getting him signed up for taking it, um, kind of like the summer before everyone else was taking it in, in the spring time of their junior year.

And he had taken it the summer between sophomore and junior year, um, and got a great score. And so he didn't have to worry about it anymore. So that was great for him with our daughter. Um, she is taking a course right now.

Um, so that's, you know, separate from school, and she meets with them twice a week, and it involves, um, small group sort of learning. And then one-on-one teaching with, uh, with a sort of special, tutor, they do a few practice tests, and then she'll take the test in March. And then, um, so I've just signed her up for that outside of school. But then the standardized tests for juniors at the high school is also the SATt, and that's in April.

So theoretically, if she wants to try to get a better score in April having taken it in March, she could do that as well. Wow.

Wow. Two tests. So close together seems like a lot.

It is, but it's also, I think, theoretically the ideal because you have prepared and, you know, all these skills for taking the test. And so then you just can keep you remember how to do it. And that's the thing with these standardized tests, honestly, is it's all about learning how to take the test. It's way less about your knowledge and much more about knowing the tricks of the trade.

Yeah. And I didn't know that you, like, I just know it's given at their school. Right. And so that's, that's how I figured that's how she would take it. But what you're saying is you have other options to take it. So I did not know that. Okay. And that was through your program that gave that other option or just.

It's on your own. Um, just on your own, like you can register, um, through the college board, um, is the website and college board is who does the SAT and also the AP exams. So it's an organization that, that is a test making and giving organization. And so you can register for SATs, um, on that website, and they have them every couple of months, and there are different tests locations, and so, okay.

Wow. That's good to know. See, this is already what I'm learning. Oh yeah. So yay.  If my daughter would agree to taking it more than once, I don't, I don't know yet. Well, we'll have  to see and, and I'm hearing, and you may know this better, but I'm hearing that some colleges may not be weighing this SAT as much or some may not even be taking them. Is that correct?

It's true. And that's part of why the whole game of taking the test is so, um, kind of crazy making right now because there's most colleges through COVID started either being test optional or test blind. Um, and so a lot of universities have remained test optional and I think are weighing whether or not they're going to start looking at SATs and ACTs again, um, uh, requiring them. And so, I mean, it's kind of, it's interesting, right?

Cause it's like, okay, well, if you have the inclination and frankly, the finances to be able to work toward getting a really great SAT then awesome. Then you can work on that. And if you get a great score, then that can help sort of, um, boosts your application. Um, but if you don't and you can't, then it gives you the chance to apply without having to worry about that, the tests being the sort of weakest link.

Um, well, so I'm glad, you know, one thing COVID did bring was maybe looking at this test as yeah. Perhaps it's not so important. It's not necessary. 

 The actual fun part is actually applying to colleges, starting to look for colleges. Right. Applying what, when do you even apply? Like what is the grade that you're starting to actually have to turn in? These applications.

Apply in your senior year, so the fall of your senior year. Yeah. And um, I think early, early action and early decision, you know, it will be early or in the fall and that's depending on the school and whether it's early action, early decision makes it binding or non-binding. And so, um, you know, people will apply starting in, early in the fall. And then I think, um, applications roll all the way through. I feel like you can apply regular decision all the way til seems to me Christmas time, kind of new year of senior year.

Okay.

That's actually later than I thought. Yeah. Okay. So when did you start or do, did your kids start actually looking at like what college they want to apply to.

Um, with our son, he knew he wanted to be, sort of go the engineering route and he, um, so that narrowed down kind of what he was looking at and where he wanted to be. Um, and he, yeah, so sort of summer trying to remember spring, spring of junior year, summer between junior and senior year, he was really honing that list. And then, um, we ended, uh, um, hiring someone to help him with his essays in the fall of his senior year.

And so that Lisa would actually be my number one piece of advice.

Wait, first of all, I forgot they have to write essays. Right. But that's okay. But now you said hire somebody to help write the essay. What is that? That's a thing. I didn't know. 

Yeah, so, um, no, we don't hire them to write the essay, to just be clear here's the advice honestly, is that, um, as I mentioned before, the, the notion of my number one parenting sort of motto is, um, this balance and wanting the kids to be, um, I dunno, have sort of a work-life balance that is manageable.

And also my second motto is to like, keep the relationship with the kid, um, more important than the striving to get into any particular college. And so, um, that's sort of conflicts that arise from getting your kid to write their essays or edit their essays or complete the application before the due date, um, felt like it was adding just a tremendous amount of pressure and stress and anxiety in our relationship with our son.

And so we just thought, it turns out there are like expert who, who totally know how to hone and edit and, um, help a person write an essay that really gets to the heart of what the what's being asked. And so, yeah, so we were able to get someone to help them do that. And that made all the difference. I would say, I mean, who knows how much it helped him in terms of getting into college, but it helped our family not hate each other.

Yeah. So I'm assuming this person also had deadlines like, okay, you're going to have to write this section by this time. I'll read it and, you know, help you help edit it. So instead of you saying like, okay, you have to have it in by, I can see that nagging really being horrible.

Yeah. No, that, to me, it did not occur to me. I have friends who hired, um, you know, college counselors from freshman year of, um, high school to help their kids sort of make sure they got their schedule right. So that they could get it to the right college so that they could, everything went really smoothly. The whole way, never occurred to me to do that. Um, and still we were just in this constant sort of strife, and I just thought, oh, maybe what if we get an objective third-party in here, um, and to provide those due dates and to provide the insight, um, maybe you should use this word instead of that word or take out the sentence or reorganize that part of it.

And that, um, that was really helpful. So like, here's the thing, like if you can afford to hire somebody to help great, and we happened to be in a place where we can do that, but I know a lot of people can't, so I don't want to like presume that, oh, just hire someone, pay someone, you know, like, I love the idea of utilizing people in the, in your community to help, um, sisters or uncles or whoever, but then also like, particularly for us like that they have a whole college where they help kids work toward applying and figuring things out.

And, you know, there's a, there's a ton of resources there. So.

Schools have a ton of resources, high schools have a ton of resources there. Um, counselors can be hugely beneficial. And so, to leverage that and use what's already available through the school.

So, how many colleges would you say your kids applied to? Like, what's,  an average amount that you think people are applying to? I know you want a safety school. I know you want a reach school and then these schools in between, but like, how many is that?

Um, let's see. So I have friends whose kids applied to eight or 10 or 12 or more, but our son applied to four or five schools and that seemed really reasonable. Um, you know, there were a couple that were definitely reaches, um, that we thought even if he got into them would not probably be great for him because they would be too stressful and not, not the right fit.

Um, but fun to try to push yourself and see, you know, um, and then a safety school or two, and then the place he ended up was sort of that Goldilocks spot, just kind of right in the middle where it was just a good fit for him. So, um, yeah.

Okay. So that, that's not, I mean, to me, that's what I was thinking. Probably like four or five. Yeah. Eight to 10. Sounds like a lot of applications to get in and essays.

Yeah.  So there's a common application, a common app that you hear about that, um, is common across a lot of schools. Again, I should know what schools he used, the common up in which don't, but I don't know.

So there's an actual app that you can be applying for colleges on. Is that what you're saying? Well, it's called the common app, it's not like an app on your phone. 

Oh, application. Like it's an app for people listening, make an app for applications. That is awesome, but this is not that, common application. Okay. So you can apply for multiple schools on it. 

It's my understanding is it's sort of like a, a baseline, um, application, and then some schools utilize that and then also have additional supplementary, um, essays. So you have those in addition to the common app, but you're not rewriting the whole thing over and over again.

Oh, okay. Great. That makes sense. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And thank goodness. That sounds, sounds much easier. And once again, I did not know that, so, wow. Okay. Learned another thing. So that's good. So, okay. So he's applying, he finally wrote essays. Yeah, and now when do you actually go, when are you like looking for colleges? Do you actually go to colleges and check them out before applying? Do you get in and then go see which one you would like, what was that process?

So it was tricky with our son because that was all happening right during the COVID shutdown of COVID. So we were kind of like, um, not visiting, not going anywhere. He couldn't even fly anywhere. Right. Or it was, um, very much like, uh, picking something sight on scene. Um, you know, there were virtual tours and visits that he could do. Um, and then ultimately we did go out there, we did a road trip.

Um, he actually went on a road trip with some friends to visit, um, in California. And so, although he wasn't able to be there when the students were all there, um, he was able to see the campus and see the town and, um, but he, but he really didn't visit until after he got in. Hmm. Okay. Um, I think with our daughter, we will be visiting like this summer probably visiting schools that she's interested in.

So it was, it will be a totally different thing, she might visit a place and be like, I'm not going to apply here. Um, yeah, yeah. Right. So, it'll be a very different.

So, okay. Here's a, here's a question. Okay. Getting more into the emotional piece of this for your son, I guess, since he already went through the process, like what, what happens when they don't get in? Right. It's cool that they wanted, their friends are getting in first one or two are rejections and I mean, that's crushing. How to support your child when that

happens? Yeah. Well, it is, it's just, it's so hard and the odds are so, so low getting into some of these schools and, um, you don't know who all you're up against and what all the admissions folks are looking for on any given day when they're looking through all these applications. And, and it's hard to keep perspective on all that. Um, so yeah, it can be crushing. I think again, with our son, it was this whole process was happening during COVID when there was so much, um, quite frankly, stress and anxiety just  across society, that it all felt uncertain and unsettled all the time.

And so getting into college or not getting into college, everything felt so uncertain that it was sort of like, I don't know, Lisa, it just was sort of like, yeah,  weird.  We are in a pandemic,  maybe it's not as important. I mean.

Yeah. Yeah. And I'm like, yeah, it's exactly right. It's like, it felt really important, but it also felt like, I don't know, will he even get to go to college?

Exactly. Can he go away, be open. Are we going to be able to go back to school?

Yeah. The whole thing felt very sort of uncertain. So I think that took a little bit of that life and death feeling off of college. Cause it was like life and death, just living through the day. Um, yeah. Again, going back to my motto that speaks to the need for balance. Right. And doing some stretch schools and some safety schools and maybe a Goldielocks in the middle of that's just the right spot and hoping that just the right spot, um, you know, that the stars align and it, uh, it works out.

Yeah. Yeah. I didn't, well, I mean, I, I believe that, you know, you end up where you should be, you know, so with things like that. So I think, well, which is probably what I will be saying to my daughter if he's crying on a letter that he gets. But, um, but that will be one I will say. Yeah. But now that you're, you have one out of the house, you have one leaving the house soon. I mean, emotionally for you, how does it feel that your, you know, your kids are leaving? Yeah.

Okay. All right. Yeah. Um, it is surreal like a lot of the time, especially. Yeah. You just sort of think, oh, this is weird where he's like moving out, that's, that's weird. And then he's gone and his room's empty and it just every now and then it's still that quiet. This is so strange and weird. And we miss his, just his, you know, when you have a family and you've got these different personalities and the system is the system with all the different personalities and what makes the family work.

And so with that, with one of the missing, it's a whole different system. Um, and so that is sad and hard. Um, but we also are so psyched for him to be thriving in this new place. And so there's that bittersweet right? Where you're like psyched to see your kids thriving and flourishing and also miss them. Um, and so it's the good, it's the good, hard part of being a parent.

It kind of reminds me of like, you know, kindergarten when kindergarten started and you put your kid on the bus, like all the moms and dads are crying, like everyone's upset and they're sad and they're crying. And I thought I would be that mom to like, oh my God, my daughter's on the bus.  You know? And honestly, like I was shocked that I was like, no, this is so exciting. You know? Like it was like, I was surprised that I wasn't crying, like, because I was just so excited that they were on the bus and they were going to school, then it was so fun. Right.

So I'm interested. I feel like I should be really sad when I drop my kids off it's college, but I also feel like I might be the parent that is just like, oh my God, they're in college and yay. And all, I can't wait to hear all those new things. So I guess, like, I feel what you're saying about, you know, you're excited for them, but it's also kind of this, you know, sad, miss to see his room just there and empty.

Totally. It's the nostalgia, but also like feeling really proud and happy, you know, when you see your kids thriving. Um, and, and look, if they're ready to go to college, you know, there will be, there will always be the panic calls about forgetting something crucial or missing some important thing or, um, adulting being too hard. But, um, you know, if by, by and large, your kid is ready for this big new adventure, then there's a part of you.

That's just really excited to see them trying.

Yeah. Do you feel, do you feel that your kids are like emotionally ready to leave, you know, emotionally ready and prepared for that next phase? Yeah.

I feel like, um, you know, they'll never be totally ready, but, um, that, it felt like with our son, he really was, it was time. Um, and, and we were never with him. Like I know some of my friends were like, oh, I can't wait for this kid to get out of the house and just go to college. He's so ready. And he's so done being here and we just are ready to get him out of here. Um, it wasn't like that with our kid.

He, we loved having him around and it was fun to have him here and be part of, um, our family unit right up until it was time for him to go. But it also just felt like, oh yeah, you're ready. You're ready to spread your wings. Um, and you know, there have been times in the intervening few months that he's been there that he's felt like he isn't ready, bu he's proving to himself.

I think every day that he is capable and ready to be practicing this adulting thing. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, and it's such, I mean, what a great experience to be away in an environment that's still kind of controlled, you know, it's still school. You still have your classes and things kind of this controlled place, but yeah. I mean, it's like, I feel like there's so much growth that happens there, so yeah. So it's great. So even if he wasn't emotionally ready or wasn't ready, it's so nice to hear that he's learning, but he actually is more ready than he thought he was.

Yeah. He's learning a ton for sure. And I'll tell you, he is the kid who says, we'll say, are you, what are you doing tonight on a weekend night? And he'll be like studying where like, you need to go do something fun. He's like you guys, I didn't come here to party. I came here to learn.

Oh, Hey, I actually was the kid that studied on the weekends too, but I did, I still had fun, but I just didn't have as much,  as my dad used to say, having fun is good for you. Just not too much fun.

Everything in moderation.

Everything in moderation. So, okay. What would you give other parents that are entering this phase? What advice would you give to prepare themselves for this transition?

Well, I would say to not forget that the relationship with the kid is really the way more important than any other thing that you're trying to do in this year and a half or two years. So you want to be able to like each other and enjoy each other. And so if that means asking your friend, you know, talking to your kid and being like, how can we leverage our community to help us through this use friends, if you can afford to hire someone to help edit essays.

Um, if you have a friend who's a great, um, editor or really great at, um, deadlines who your kid will listen to, you know, use the, use the community to help you, um, so that you can maintain the relationship with a kid. Um, if, if at all possible to not just burden the relationship between the parent and the kid, to the extent of, you know, becoming so focused on getting the college stuff done, that you sort of lose sight of the larger picture.

Right. Especially since it's kind of, those are last year in the house, you want it, you know, you don't want to be just fighting with.

Yeah. And that, for me, seemed like, um, the, the thing that, the thing that I unexpectedly discovered by getting someone to help my son with getting our son to help, um, just with those that final push on his applications was getting to enjoy being together and not constantly harping on him about due dates and edits and stuff. So yeah, I would say that and I would say, um, it is, um, there's a ton of pressure.

It seems like these days for kids to know what is they want to do for the rest of their lives, when they're 16 or 17. And to me that it can become undue pressure to try to know what you wanna major in and what you want to do for your career. And, um, to just like, hold that really gently for your kids and be like, yeah, I hope that you, you know, have some ideas of what you might be passionate about, but you know what it's okay to, if that changes.

And, um, I don't know, just not adding undue pressure on that.

That's a real good one. This, well, this has been honestly so helpful. I'm so glad you could talk about this with me today. Um, I think it was helpful. I learned a lot about all the things that I'm about to experience in probably another year or so.

The things you need to research, because I only told you half the information,.

All the things I need to look up, I did write them down. Um, but honestly, I, you know, I didn't know a lot, I didn't know about a college board that, I mean, I know that it's there, but  didn't know that you had options to take an SAT whenever you really wanted to know about this common application. I mean, we would've been writing every single application, probably handwriting, cause we didn't even know it was on the computer. So really very beneficial.

I'm glad I could help.

So thank you.

Thank you for listening to this week's episode. I know I learned a lot from Becky today and I also know I have a lot more to look up and prepare so that I can help my kids start this next adventure. Feel free to share your experiences, your resources, and your story on our Real LIfe Momz, Facebook group. I know I'm personally going to need all the advice and any tips from parents that have already been through this with their kids. And don't forget to follow Real Life Momz so you don't miss an episode.