Building Boundaries: Our Journey Through Blended Family Dynamics and Co-Parenting Challenges

Speaker 1: 0:21

Yeah, so we ended last week's episode talking about the post-wedding dinner with my mom and dad, your mom and dad, me, and then grandpa and the kids. Yeah, so I think this episode is going to be a lot about boundaries and how there were just not any at the beginning it was lack of boundaries.

Speaker 2: 0:44

Yeah, it was lack of boundaries, but also the implementation of boundaries. That's probably one of the hardest things, especially for me growing up Everything I've been through in life. There's never any boundaries. I don't think there's anything like that, right?

Speaker 1: 1:10

So just for a little background, here we are at this dinner. You've been married for 24 hours, yeah, and your dad can't stop talking about your ex.

Speaker 2: 1:21

Yes, literally. I'll never forget it. I'm just telling them shut up. It was the most insane thing ever to me. I'm like what really? I remember that. I remember I think it was your mom, or then grandpa.

Speaker 1: 1:38

Well, they did. Just for a background, my parents and my grandparents are the most supportive people in the world. If I tell them I'm going to do something, they're like okay, we're behind you. They were just shocked that this was what was happening at the dinner.

Speaker 2: 1:58

Why. It was just the most insane thing ever. I remember just sitting there and he's just bringing up stuff that had nothing to do with us, had nothing to do with the situation. What are you, buddy? I'm like, go sit down, Go sit down. And then it ended up. That was at the beginning of where it started to come out that he was like infatuated with her. It was actually an infatuation, which is like this is spiraled into the point of that. I have no relationship with my. This is something that, as this podcast unravels, you guys are going to really start getting a lot of the in depth stuff, A lot of the things that we had to overcome.

Speaker 1: 2:46

Yeah, Because I think that does go. We had a lot of people shocked that we broke up so many times and ended up here. But I think that story and how your dad couldn't stop talking about your ex really kind of plays into how there were just no boundaries with your family and your ex and even you and your ex at that point.

Speaker 2: 3:11

Well, right, cause I remember, like for me, like I mean, like let's, let's bring it back to the breakups, right, like it's. You know I'll never forget that I am thinking that you're a lunatic breaking up with me. I'm like, how should you? I'm perfect, but I remember that you know, a lot of it had to do with the fact of that, my skewed reality, right, like in, like when they know we said before is that like we were a town away but worlds apart in how we were brought up and and this life, and I'll just never forget that. You know I had this skewed sense, right, and so when it came to my ex, the way how I thought was that she's my family. Remember that this is one of the breakups, right, and you're saying that to me, dan.

Speaker 1: 4:11

I mean you, you saying like that she's my family was happening well into us actually being married.

Speaker 2: 4:18

Yes, that's right, yeah, right. And then, like it was. I remember that that was like such a good, difficult thing, cause you remember you saying to me, like I'm your family, and then I'm like, but that was because of like the way and how I was taught that family was like it was families. You know, I remember that's how, like my mom always taught me that and like she would always just basically be like, oh well, like, like she's always going to be like the girl's mother and like she's always going to be your family. And so I'm hearing him thinking, I'm like why I have to. But here I am like basically saying like, oh hey, like she needs to be a part of this too, like in, in, in, not knowing how the fuck to like how insane, like I think I say it all out now and I'm like this is, this is absolutely insane. But in the time, in the time I'm looking at you like listen, I don't know how they do it in America's world, or like in like why people land. That was like literally, yeah. Like this was a cultural difference. Honestly, honestly, am I paying? It was a call. I honestly thought it was a cultural difference that I'm thinking like, oh, this is the reasons why I like, like I remember the same thing. Like, like, like you're paying, like, oh, like, like, like, stay with your own kind, or or, or say stuff like that. And it was like I thought, well, maybe this is the reasons why they say that Like, and it was because I seriously and honestly thought that I'm like that, you, you didn't understand me.

Speaker 1: 5:44

Oh yeah, that was like a genuine problem between us. I mean, we like that was like we would butt heads over the whole family definition. And I remember finally being like you know what, we're just never going to agree on this. We are just never going to agree on this. But from my perspective, I'm like here I am, we're married. Okay, you and I are married. You brought in two kids. I brought in my one kid. I'm pregnant with this baby, who's going to be related to all of us, right, this is our family, right. And then you're having a conversation with your ex while I'm pregnant, while we're married, whatever, and you're saying, like this family will always be this family, meaning you, her and your two daughters. And I'm like, will you say it Make any sense to you? No, no, no. So you're just going to have two families.

Speaker 2: 6:48

Not going to work for me. You know, when you say it like that, it sounds crazy.

Speaker 1: 6:54

You see how crazy it was. Listen but no, I just think at that point, at that point, you really needed to figure out kind of how to um, what's the word that I'm looking for, Just like, get yourself out of that mindset of like yeah, I was like still so stuck in like this.

Speaker 2: 7:24

Like I said, I was stuck in this whole another world. It honestly was and and I felt so I want to say, lost. But the thing is, is that like it was something like almost like out of body in the sense of that like like here it is, like here's my definition, like this is ingrained in me. This has been told to me like my whole entire life, and now I need to rewrite this definition, and what ended up happening was that life ended up happening where it had a force me to grow out of that definition and recreated new um, in which that's one of the probably the biggest blessings about our relationship is that our communication has always been great. And so that you would always tell me you would like you would always voice your discontent If you weren't happy with me or like if you felt a certain way like you would talk to me, and you know you would talk to me, but then obviously me, where I have like these old bad habits, like here I am and I'm honestly trying to manipulate the situation. Yeah, so that you see things my way and like I'm not even listening at this point. I'm like listening with the intention to just like, just say what I want to say. I'm not listening. I'm like you're talking to me, I'm like, yeah, and I'm just ready with my response and not even taking into consideration what it is that you're telling me, and it was kind of like due to that, that like. But when I find out of listening to you and here in the ball, it was a topic from season eight because it kept on coming up.

Speaker 1: 9:02

Captain coming up because it was nonstop. At that point, I mean think about it, even after we get got married, and I mean speaking of having no boundaries. She lived with your parents at that point, right, yeah, so you know, here I am at home. You're getting a call from your parents like, oh, can you come shovel my driveway? And I'm like what is going on? Like I'm here, right, like you now need to leave to go do something for her, like because you know, like you know what I mean. And then, like she would call you if there was an issue with your dad. And I can remember saying, like this is between the two of them, like you can't be her go-to person anymore, you can't be that. And that wasn't stopping that it wasn't stopping. She would talk to you about other relationships she had. She would talk to you about things that were going on in her life, people you used to know together, and not just about the kids. And I can remember being like, why are you responding to this? Why are you responding? And you would be like, well, it's rude not to respond, and I'm like, no, it's actually rude of her if you've asked her to only speak to you about the kids, for her to be texting you about a guy leaving her at the bar last night or something you know.

Speaker 2: 10:30

I remember that like it was rude for a lot of things, because it was also rude in the sense of that. You know, I remember there was one point that you know I hid that from you, I'll never forget. I hid that from you because I wanted to, like, take the path of least resistance, and I hid it from you because I felt like, well, I'm in the middle right.

Speaker 1: 10:54

Oh, you would always say that and it made me insane, I know.

Speaker 2: 10:58

It made me insane Because the problem was that, like, because, like, here I am, but I'm putting myself in this position, but obviously at the time I'm not seeing it that way because I'm like, I'm like saying, well, I need to have this relationship with her for the sake of my kids, right, and for me. I'm trying to do this with the least amount of damage to my kids, the least amount of discomfort. I'm trying to do this with every good intention, yeah, but another understanding the fact of that. It's completely insane. It's completely over seven of boundary. It's over seven only Because at this point, none of that existed. None of it existed. Yeah, and I'll never forget. It's like I'm trying to play like both sides of the fence and it's just like, like I said, it's crazy, it's wild to talk about it now, cause I'm like you're so far removed from it now. I'm like dude. I'm like like this is not like, this is like. I almost feel like I'm in a straight jet right now, just like so rock and back and forth cause of how crazy it is Happy I'm out there anymore, but, but it's.

Speaker 1: 12:04

it's one of those things that it's such a fine line for me too, right, because I get it. I'm divorced, I have a kid with somebody else. We were just so far, far removed from each other. At that point, I did it. That was also a big thing too, you know, and, and we were friendly, right. He has a wife. I love her. She's coming on the podcast.

Speaker 2: 12:26

I'm so excited.

Speaker 1: 12:28

You know, it was just such a different relationship, you know, like it's, it was like.

Speaker 2: 12:37

I remember I knew that it has an excuse.

Speaker 1: 12:39

I want you would say why is it okay for John and it's not okay for her to talk to me or whatever? And I'm like, well, a like there is a trust level that's been established between me and my acts and you can have a boundary.

Speaker 2: 12:59

We have boundaries. Yeah, you said that. Well, the thing is, it was that like for me, I remember. I'll never forget that it was because I'm thinking, well, she's moved on, I've moved on, and it was that.

Speaker 1: 13:14

But in all reality it's just like it was To me it was like you, you were still giving it life because, don't forget, at that point your dad was telling her oh, don't worry, he's going to come around and you guys will be back together. Yes, okay, yeah, yeah, I remember that.

Speaker 2: 13:33

Yeah, I mean, it's like, everyone is like you know, you know Silitating something that is dead and gone and buried. You're married to somebody else. So married and like it was just like in how the whole craziness of it was, and then, but like I said, it was still like so much. And then I it was birthday right when we went away to Gable for a while and you found out that that I was messaging her.

Speaker 1: 14:05

Yeah, just like day to day shit.

Speaker 2: 14:07

When, day to day, day to day shit, day to day shit.

Speaker 1: 14:09

Like, oh, I had to go get my ID and I couldn't. And I'm like, what are you doing? You know, I granted, like I was very, like I don't want to say that you were completely in the wrong and all of this because, a I didn't handle it well because it was so crazy and do-sang, like it was just making me nuts. And B, like I get it right, she is the mother of your kids. Like there has to be some level of communication. However, the level of communication that was happening was it was taking you a long time to get out of that mindset of like, oh, let me just share with her, like, what's going on?

Speaker 2: 14:54

And it was just crazy Cause I think it was like do it a kind of like. And this is why I say like life kind of makes things happen where it finally kind of teaches you the lessons you need to learn in order to be like, like kind of have a that ah-ha moment, yeah. And I think, finally, where that at that point it started kind of realizing I was like you know what You're right, like I'm not respecting you, I'm not respecting this marriage, like I'm not, I finally figured out. I'm like you know what. I have to distinguish these worlds, I have to distinguish this Like, and I have to do something different. And that's what I started implementing boundaries. And then the crazy came out Like all of a sudden, this went completely insane when you started implementing boundaries, especially with narcissists. When you implement boundaries with narcissists, at that point the whole objective comes to paint you with a negative light to everybody that's around you. And one thing any advice to anybody that deals with a narcissist is that if you're gonna get through it, one thing you have to become comfortable with is being the villain in someone else's story, 100%. And I was a villain for a very long time and I think, as time went on, people I was who I was and people started seeing it for what it was. My kid started seeing it for what it was and for a while I was a villain in their story.

Speaker 1: 16:45

It was just so up and down, right, because she stopped getting what she wanted from you and that just caused so much. And we went through Trying to do it as the kids, yeah, and it was so hard. I mean, I can remember being in the hospital after we had Gami and it's supposed to be this time right, like this beautiful time we just had our first baby together. Yeah, you know, it should be peaceful, it should be calm, and Instead, you know, it's day two and we're dealing with, well, she doesn't want the kids to come up here. Oh, she doesn't want, you know, and it's just like, oh, my God, can anything ever just be hours, you know, and I think that's something probably will talk about Moar just as far as, like, being a stepmom I think that's something that a lot of stepmoms probably deal with like, just, you know, I'm not the first person you've ever had a baby with, and now we're here at the hospital having the baby and your mom's calling me by your ex's name while I'm holding my newborn baby and your dad's saying, oh, maybe next time you guys will have a boy, while he's holding my beautiful newborn daughter and then the kids are. You know, I'm having to tell my dad to drop the kids back off because they're not supposed to be here, because their mother doesn't want them to be. And I'm like, oh my God, can I run away with this baby? Because this is so much, this is so much you know.

Speaker 2: 18:24

That was like such a crazy time. I'll just never forget it. That like being the next of my dad and placing Moor at the end of his arms and he's like, oh yeah, she's beautiful. He's like not a boy though, mike. Yeah, dad. Not a boy, though she's not a boy, Mike. The fuck does that have anything to do with that? Like you know, and I'll never forget that, he's like yeah, maybe next time.

Speaker 1: 18:50

And I'm like I'm freshly stitched together. I'm like yeah.

Speaker 2: 18:55

I am like, I am like looking at him and I'm like, and this is like where, like obviously, things decided kind of like I decided to kind of like seeing things for what they were and, like you know, now it's like starting to look crazy to me, Like, right, I'm starting to notice the crazy Wild. And then, like exactly that, I just remember like that whole conversation of like me having to like walk out with the girls and like you know, so that you don't overhear her going nuts over the phone about it and then I'm like kind of like, yeah, I'm like we got to bring the baby, we got to bring the girls back to their moms, and it was just kind of like, exactly, it's at that moment of like where we're just trying to like enjoy like this new life, this new beautiful part, like exactly it's like we're blending, the point where now we're blending yeah, we've blended families.

Speaker 1: 19:52

Camila is related to everyone in our family, you know these families and it was like our tie to everything.

Speaker 2: 20:01

And then it just kind of Wow, like this, this is like it was very discerning, because we're like are we ever going to get over this? We are ever going to get through this? Like is this ever going to change? Is this ever going to change? Right, and exactly I remember like talking to that. I remember, like my mom like kiss you on your forehead and then calling you by Max's name, and I'm like really. In my head I'm like and I corrected her and I'm like this I'm like, oh my God, mike, is this really happening? Yeah, not the last time I went, oh my God, but there was a word vomit. Because then she was like, oh no, no, I'm sorry.

Speaker 1: 20:39

And then she was like, it was just like, and then she starts like going on about like my accident, and I'm like, yeah, and it was like, and even like your sister at the time would still have a rover to like, have wine with her, and like I really didn't have a relationship with your sister at that point, like you know, it was just like, oh my God, like, is this ever going to be? Are we ever going to have peace with this?

Speaker 2: 21:06

Right. But I remember, like my sister, is that like it? It was a conversation, like it was one conversation with her and she was like You're right, and then that was like, yeah, like she, she, she, my sister, like I said, with everything that we've been through, she's kind of like the one that's obviously kind of recognized a lot of the different things, yeah, and, like I said, she's going to be coming on to at some point and, you know, kind of start delving really into heavy like a row of trauma. Yeah, yeah, but you know it's, it's that's just kind of like one of those things, right, and but now it's just kind of like you know now, so it's like we have the baby and settled in and and you know, all of a sudden I get the phone call from like one of my really good friends and and that was still friends with her and some of that and she gave me a call and I forget I was in the beer. She's like, hey, um, congrats on the baby, stuff, like that. And she was like did you know that your ex put a picture of your daughter on her Facebook page, instagram, instagram, and made a post about her?

Speaker 1: 22:27

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 22:28

I'm like what I'm like. No, because she has me blocked.

Speaker 1: 22:32

All right, it's not like we had a relationship with her and at that point where, like you know, I don't know in what world you would ever post somebody else's baby without like saying is it okay if I, if I post a picture of your baby? Um, but especially not if no one talks to each other, it was too like.

Speaker 2: 22:50

and then on top of that it was another form of, of, of lunacy in the sense of that, like the way how the post kind of came off as that, you know, it was almost like as if it was a core baby and it was like and, and I remember I called her up and I was like hey, why is it that you have a picture of my daughter on your social?

Speaker 1: 23:12

Well, well, she's my kid's sister. That was her excuse and I'm like that is not okay. Right, but that was just further cementing that, that there were just no, no boundaries, that was you know, and we at that point had really tried to implement them, but that to us just kind of showed like there's no line that won't be crossed. And we need to like really double down on this and we need to explain to the kids why it is that this is how it has to be, that way, right, and then that was like the biggest thing.

Speaker 2: 23:42

But, like you know, to kind of like, just like we burp back a little bit and then kind of like and how? Like I may let that transition from like well, this is how it's supposed to be, versus and then finally get into like no, this is actually a little fucked up, was that like I'll never forget After we got married. When we got married, she posted that post, sent to kind of like dedicated me congratulating us on our wedding, but it was. She had pictures of me and her. Yeah, and when you were together, yeah, and it was like and I am like, oh, my God, I don't know. And then I'm like you saying this to me, and then I'm like saying to you, I'm like why can't I stop her from what she wants to post? Like, why are you talking to me about this stuff?

Speaker 1: 24:25

I mean, maybe she shouldn't have posted a picture of me and her, but it's funny that she posted a picture of me with the kids. Like she, I am her kids, I am her kids father. Like what's wrong with what she wrote and I'm like yeah, yeah, no, and I remember that.

Speaker 2: 24:42

And then on top of that, like in flight, like woman in construction Week, yeah, you would post about her. And I posted that was at least before we were married. Yeah, I know, but I remember that like I'm just like. Oh well, like exactly. So you just have a rationalization of like.

Speaker 1: 24:56

but it was because of like, the way how I perceived family to be in the way how I was taught and I mean, I get where you're coming from, to some extent right, like you Would like to have a decent relationship with her. Right, and I'm going to know what. I was Right, exactly Like you want to have a decent relationship with her, you don't know how to make that happen while having boundaries we don't even.

Speaker 2: 25:22

But then also it was a guy finally got to the point where I realized is that there are just some people you're not meant to have a relationship with. Yeah, and that that was a boundary, that I needed to learn that it's just kind of like some things were just better off for last. And as much as we wish there could be this kumbaya on that, we like, exactly like the relationship that you have with with John and Megan and John and Megan and stuff like that. You know, no, I don't know, not everyone is as fortunate, right, and the thing is, is that, because of the history that her and I had, it was just this toxicity and you know the way and how our pasts were, it was you know all she knew. She's like you know what. We're not together now, but one day we will, right, and it was just kind of like. So any form of contact facilitates that and I, that was like a big thing for me to learn over time and as I, like I said, it's like you know. It kind of leads up to, like you know, the next boundary story of like where, um, she came in she was dropping off the girls, right?

Speaker 1: 26:38

Yeah, it was just to kind of briefly summarize it and not get like too much into it. Basically, she wouldn't leave the house until I sent one of the kids out, but Camila was sleeping on that kid and so I asked you know, can she just FaceTime later or you know whatever? Um, and, and she refused to leave our house and I think that was like, finally, when you were like okay, there's just nothing that we can do to facilitate a good relationship with her anymore, like absolute lines have to be drawn Right and she's no longer going to come to our house.

Speaker 2: 27:20

So I think that that was basically where, like I remember, you call me. I was like coming home from work and you called me and you're like, you're upset. I hear the kids upset in the background.

Speaker 1: 27:30

Everyone's crying. I'm wearing Selena, I'm trying to make dinner. Selena's like I don't know six months old. He's like a year and a half. I mean, they were babies, you know, and everyone's upset. Everyone in the house is upset, everyone was home, you know. It was just such an upsetting situation and for us, because we've really worked hard to cultivate this level of peace in our home, like we don't yell in our house ever, right, we don't raise our voices at each other. We don't raise our voices.

Speaker 2: 28:03

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 28:05

We do yell out the dog. We're getting better about it. The dog knows you have to yell at them sometimes, right? But, um, we don't raise our voices at each other. We don't raise our voices at the kids. Right, we want our home to be one of happiness. We want you to feel good when you walk in the door and then that happens and everyone's like, frazzled. You know your nerve endings are on fire, like you're, like. This isn't how we live our life anymore, right.

Speaker 2: 28:32

Right, and I'll never forget that. I called her and you know her and I are now going at it and obviously it pits. You know there was, there, was, you know, in conversations with the girls and that they would tell us they were like. I remember that she used to turn it on them in the sense that, like see, like your dad yelled at me because of what something that you guys did. Yeah. They were just so in the middle, it's just so in the middle and it was just kind of like in which that was always kind of like my rationale for making a yeah for trying to have a good relationship with her Right. Because I'm just obviously just trying to shield my kids from this right. And you know, I'll just never forget that, like her and I are just kind of like going at it, and you know, I think that that was like where, like the day that I kind of said to her I'm like you know what, this is the last time you take things, like this is the last time you take things, and that was like the boundary. At that point I'm like this is like this season changed now and then. So I'll never forget that another conversation happened where now I'm like, when you started implementing the boundary, we're like you're to never come back to this house. It will meet you halfway.

Speaker 1: 29:50

It will meet you in a neutral location.

Speaker 2: 29:53

We'll meet you halfway, and you know, and we're going to start exchanging the kids halfway because you're not going to bring that drama to our doorstep. And I remember that she just like lost her complete mind.

Speaker 1: 30:11

Yeah, she was like I am.

Speaker 2: 30:15

I'm going to make sure my kids get there safe. I'm like how is it any different than me or her driving to go pick her up?

Speaker 1: 30:23

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 30:23

And the kids being with us all weekend, and then she was like no, I will. And then this is like where it's not again, nuts yeah.

Speaker 1: 30:30

She was saying she'd get a police escort.

Speaker 2: 30:32

I would get a police escort to follow me to the house and drop the kids off. And I was like, do you hear yourself? Yeah, and she's just going off and on. And then I remember like it was like I know you love this line. But I said to her I was like, why do you want to see me so much? Oh my God, yeah, that's right. And I remember that like what. I said that to her because that was the only thing I can think of.

Speaker 1: 30:59

I'm like yeah, there's no reason that I just don't want to be using drive less.

Speaker 2: 31:04

Why I'm like you get a driver's license, you're going to save gas, it's gonna be quicker. It's a neutral location and I am like going down every single pro. There is no con to it, right, yeah, other than the fact of that you can't come to the house. Well, it's she no longer could control the situation. Yeah, and so that's like, in which, as a narcissist and former narcissist Like the, that's so if, as soon as you remove that control and that power, it's like Now, what do I do? It's like, it's like. It's like computer like logging off, it's like. It's like. It's like, obviously, you're like well, what do I do now? And as soon as I said that line, at that point it was her to either have to expose her true intention or the fact of that. She had to listen to what we were saying.

Speaker 1: 31:56

Yeah, and I mean, the boundary is for us, right, it's not just for us. Yeah, it's not for no one else.

Speaker 2: 32:03

Yeah, it's for us. Yeah, and at that point she was like I'm going to bring them to you. I was like no, you're not. Yeah, and I was like, and remember, at that point I just kept on repeating I'm like she's going to meet you at this location at this time. Well, I'm going to drive right by her. She's going to meet you at this location. Yeah, you just kept saying it. It's kept on saying I'm like and she's like, well, I'm just going to bring the kids out, I'll wait for you guys to get home. She's going to meet you at this location and at this time. And sure as shit, she met you there at that location. Maybe not the time.

Speaker 1: 32:37

Yeah, but I do think, like in fairness to her, for the most part she has left us alone since then, for sure.

Speaker 2: 32:48

Yeah, it was, definitely it was that. I know it was like a big thing for her too as well. Like it is exactly. I think at that point she really understood it's just like all right, like this really is over, yeah, it really is not going to happen again. Like this really is, like, like this is done, like and like it was, and that was it. Like I say to my lane.

Speaker 1: 33:11

She said in her lane, and you know, few little small things happened after that, but nothing where other things have happened, but no necessarily her trying to get like in between us, because I think she realized at that point, like there's nothing, like it's too strong, there was no strong, there's, there's no getting in between it, because we really like built those boundaries. It might have been like a tiny Lego block by tiny Lego block, but eventually we got to like that wall, right, and that was like the big thing too.

Speaker 2: 33:47

Is that like obviously she was used to me 100%, always going back to her and like and like I said, like prior to you, I was not faithful in any relationship and you know, she was somebody who, if I cheated, she was the one I cheated with. Yeah, and it was one of those things and like, just kind of like to go back inside the lunacy part of of the whole situation. Do you know what I'm saying? Like to her. It's like, well, this is like every other time, yeah, right, and then like, just why would she not? I think that Right, exactly, it was like anything else, like we had to prove everyone wrong through action, exactly, and it was just like one of those things and like I'll just never forget it. Like it was just like, but I remember, like what? Where? The moments that she finally realized that that there was no, that she lost her power. Because, you know, I remember before, right, like I said, like you know, and me kind of overcoming my, my narcissism in the sense of that, like me thinking that that I was great, right, or that I was perfect at all these different things. It was never anybody. It was never my fault. That everybody else's fault, yeah Right, you know, in overcoming that, one of the things is that, like one of the nurses like kind of like like where, like they kind of go crazy and they fire up, is this is like when someone points out the truth and then they would just basically like it's like I am not that and all of a sudden you're like you wanna check tape and it's all this different stuff and so, like, for me, like my trigger was like her calling me a bad dad, right, and I'll never forget that, like for a long time, like she would, she could say you can call me anything in the book, just don't call me a bad dad, right. And she pushed that button and it was like instant, like nuclear, like I would go off the rails, but it was because she was right. It was something that I had to say to myself like why does this trigger you as much as it does? And it's because, like at that time, I was a bad dad. I was not that I am today, but it's something that I admit to my kids that I'm not. Like in the beginning I was not a good dad, like I had my head in my priorities in the wrong places. I made a lot of the wrong decisions. I thought I was doing right by you because of the way in how I saw things, the way how my dad was with me in all these different things, and you know, it triggered me because she was right and I'll never forget. When you know we had an incident happen with one of the girls and she called me. Then I don't know if I forget, I'm like Okay yeah sure. I'm like anyhow. And at that point that was the last time and I'll never forget, when I had that reaction and I remember her reaction, she was like, oh my God, yeah, I can't get him like that, I can't get him anymore. And that's when, like it officially was just, like it finally broke, like I severed all ties and the power was gone, like she, and that was it. And it was probably like that freeing moment.

Speaker 1: 37:35

It took us a couple of years.

Speaker 2: 37:37

It took us a couple of years.

Speaker 1: 37:39

But I think having had to go through all that, I think has given us both like a ton of perspective and I think has helped us be better about creating boundaries with anybody else who we have to create boundaries with in our life, right, Right, because I think like I'm such a people pleaser and that whole situation just kind of stopped me from being that way.

Speaker 2: 38:08

Right. And then same thing goes for me, like I was the same thing people pleaser, like I didn't like people being upset with me, I did not like all these different things, and you know, that was a big moment for us. And like myself that kind of finally break free from that and it's anybody who's like out there and kind of going through it. There is like, at the end of the time, like you guys can get through it, but you have to be willing to call yourself on your shit, and I think that that's something that I think becoming self aware of who I was and realizing my responsibilities, like being accountable, right being accountable and realizing my responsibilities, and all those interactions.

Speaker 1: 39:00

Sure, and for me, like I just know, a lot of those things were triggers because of like some things that happened in my childhood and like between my parents, that I would always feel like don't blindside me with you talking to her, or like you know what I mean, like when I found out that you guys were just like talking like kind of like day to day, basically like to me that was like a betrayal, you know.

Speaker 2: 39:27

It was. Yeah, I mean it was.

Speaker 1: 39:29

I mean like, let's be honest, it was so much that I had to work through to even just getting to the point of being trying to understand like why it was that you did want to have a decent relationship with her.

Speaker 2: 39:44

Right and like I can honestly say it, it's just like those times that like I did, like where, like, my past would kind of skew my reality of like, or it's like I would have this skewed reality during certain instances, stuff like that, like at those times it was always to the point of like where it is a betrayal or due in the sense of that like I'm not prioritizing you as like my wife, and protecting our marriage most importantly, and it's just like you know, those moments were moments and like it was cause it's the last thing I ever would ever want to do. Right, and that's like when I realized that I'm like because I have this skewed sense or this skewed reality. And then, but when I realized that I'm like, oh my God, it scares me so bad, I'm just kind of like, oh my God, like I hurt my wife, yeah.

Speaker 1: 40:44

I mean, I think like for as hard as those times were, or for us, in some sense, I'm really glad that we had to go through it, right? No, you know, because I think it taught us both a ton about ourselves. I just don't think like our marriage would be as strong and I don't think we would communicate as well as we do with each other had we not had to go through those things, because I think for me, I really had to find my voice in why this was bothering me so much and why this felt like oh my God, like I can feel this in my chest, like what you know, and I think I had to learn to speak up and I had to learn to say like, hey, no, this is not okay with me, and I think that that's really strengthened our marriage over the last few years.

Speaker 2: 41:34

I think it's like there's a big give and take to it, right, it's in the sense of that, like you finding that strength and being able to communicate that to me, but then also me having to put pride aside. I think pride is like is is yeah, we talk about this so much, yeah, like I think pride has no place in the bedroom or in the in when you're communicating with your spouse. It's just like for me to kind of just be so receptive to what it is you have to say and basically like and honestly be like you know what, babe, like I hear you, like you're right.

Speaker 1: 42:11

Yeah, instead of being like I'm right, this is how I've always thought it was and I know that that's right, but this is who I am.

Speaker 2: 42:18

Take it, or leave it, I'll walk you out. Or or the bulldozer feelings Cause, like that's the thing is. It's just like to not validate how it is that you're feeling Right, like it's like, here you are, you're telling me how to feel. Oh, no, come on now. Like like you still feel that way, yeah, and like, well, I do. Yeah, that's what it was, but I do feel that way and then I'm like, well, well, you shouldn't, yeah, because it's not that big of a deal.

Speaker 1: 42:44

And I felt like sometimes I would let it go, but it was something that would like sit heavy within me, you know. And then, like a week later, I'd be like oh, we have to talk about this again because I can't not bring this back up.

Speaker 2: 42:56

Cause you know what? Another thing, too, that you said it hurts me like it hurts me now, like to think about that. You actually said this that you said to me if we could never reach a common ground, you'd be like well, I guess I just have to learn how to live with this. Yeah, and I'm like no, like, and I think like one of the last times that you said that, like, no, like it's not fair to you to have to live with it. Like it, like we have to figure this out, we have to fix this. Like it's not something for you to live with, like, why should you settle? Or something that makes you feel this way.

Speaker 1: 43:34

Yeah, I think it was so hard, right, because we have really always had such a good, fun, loving relationship, right, so our marriage was like so good, and then we had to deal with this one thing and it was so awful, right right, and like we didn't know how to deal with it. Like you dealing with her, like us dealing with each other, like you know, trying to have it not affect the kids, cause that, I mean, that's a whole nother episode too right. Like just we have kids through all of this. Right, like this is not just you trying to deal with an ex. Like this is you trying to deal with an ex who's the mother of your kids? It's just, it was so much you know.

Speaker 2: 44:18

Yeah, so you're trying to like reduce as much collateral like all like that collateral damage. Like you're just trying to like Jesus, like how, like to shield them the best you can and unfortunately there's. There's sometimes in that, like I mentioned before, like you have to be the villain and you have to let them paint you as one and you have to suck to say, but it's like at some point, like they're almost like a sacrificial lamb, at some point of like getting across that, like in order, like you gotta remember, like you're not the one that's putting them through, that it's just a person that's putting them through that.

Speaker 1: 44:59

It's so hard to not want to try to protect them.

Speaker 2: 45:01

No, that's the hard part. I think that that's where a lot of relationships fail or a lot of people just go back and settle for a reality. Is that because they're like why should my kid have to go through that for me? But you're not understanding? It's just like you going back and putting yourself in the situation. It ends up that like, well, now you're teaching your kid that this is what love is, this is what you have to go, and I think the greater good is like what's the slight inconvenience now versus a lifetime of inconveniences?

Speaker 1: 45:35

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 45:38

Oh, and I think that that I think that that's something that we learn, that, in order to kind of have that happy, peaceful life and, Patrick, protect what matters to you most and it's like in the only way sometimes by doing that is by implementing, yeah.