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Parenting is an expedition like no other, especially when shadowed by the ghosts of our own pasts. My partner and I peel back the layers of conflict resolution within our relationship, sharing the raw edges of our journey as we confront the challenges of raising our nearly five-year-old. We're laying bare the tools honed from personal struggles and therapy sessions that have become our lifeline in respectful disagreement, navigating the treacherous waters of parenting disagreements with a compass of empathy and unconditional love.
Have you ever wondered how deep-seated traumas shape the way we communicate with those we cherish the most? We're opening the floor to an honest discourse on the trials men face articulating their scars, and the profound impact of empathy on a relationship's dynamics. It's a chapter-by-chapter voyage through the decisions that sculpt our children's lives, from the necessity of emotional resilience to the fine line between guiding and over-parenting. Together, we're learning to embrace the evolution of our parenting playbook with each unique child, whether it's through the insights gained from occupational therapy or the art of letting our children stumble and rise.
In the spirit of growth and healing, we tackle the vital role of truth and love in our partnerships. Facing the mirror with humility, we address the courage to admit our mistakes and the art of apologizing – a lesson not just for us as partners, but as parents too. We share wisdom on balancing the scales of relationship dynamics and the continuous quest for self-improvement, emphasizing that the path of evolution as a parent and partner is never-ending. Join us as we unpack these lessons, offering a beacon of hope and real-life strategies for those navigating the same rugged terrain.
00:00 - Navigating Parenting Through Past Trauma
10:31 - Understanding Differences and Communication in Relationships
19:18 - Navigating Conflict With Love and Respect
31:18 - Navigating Trauma and Parenting Challenges
36:43 - Parenting Differences and Challenges
44:50 - Navigating Parenting Challenges and Communication
59:47 - Parenting Perspectives and Teachings
01:06:42 - Navigating Relationships With Love and Truth
01:10:18 - Lessons in Continuous Parental Growth
You want to talk about some parenting stuff?
Speaker 2:
Ha ha, ha ha ha, ha, ha, ha ha ha, let's go no.
Speaker 1:
I'm playing. Yeah, no, we've been going through some more difficult times, I guess, with our almost five-year-olds.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, I think a lot of it has to do more of the fact of that. One thing about her is that, and one thing that we can both agree on is that she's like our do-over right when we think about it.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, I think that's probably kind of what goes into the conversation that I want to have today is kind of how our own traumas have affected maybe the way that we parent the little ones and how we kind of disagree on certain things, and how we've gotten to a point of allowing each other to feel the way that we feel about it.
Speaker 2:
Right and also the tools that we've kind of acquired over us going through and handling our shit that have helped us not be at each other's throats.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, how we've learned to disagree the way that we have and not have it turn into a fight.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, and I think that that's part of exactly us being able to disagree without a fight and us being able to disagree in respect to one another.
Speaker 1:
You know, what's funny is the conversation that you and I had after my therapy appointment on Wednesday, when I was out for a walk and then not Camila's OT like my therapy appointment. Well, we can talk about that. I like that story when I was out for a walk and then I was driving and you were driving from one job site to the other.
Speaker 1:
So I don't want to get too much into what we were disagreeing about on that conversation, but I will just say we've been going through a really hard time with a certain issue going on in our lives that we kind of vehemently disagree on.
Speaker 2:
It's weird because I don't know if it's. I mean, yes, it is a disagreement and it's right, and I think it's exactly. I'll let you go back into it.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, so obviously it's something I brought up in therapy and so then I was just talking to you about it because I have a new therapist and you wanted to know how I liked her and stuff like that. And in having that conversation I'm very passionate About this issue, right, and I'm like saying thanks to you. And it's been a while, I guess, since we like had a disagreement like this I would say Probably since really the beginning of our relationship when we would disagree about certain issues, like with your ex or how I felt things were being handled with your ex.
Speaker 2:
Well, I mean that's also. I mean I want to say not even that. I mean like when I came to my drinking, that was a disagreement.
Speaker 1:
OK, yeah, yeah, sure I got this stuff like that.
Speaker 2:
I mean yeah, those are just things.
Speaker 1:
But I guess what I want to say is it was so interesting how my body was reacting when I would say something to you about this and you would just calmly be like, no, I totally get why you feel that way and I'm like I felt like my body was bracing for a fight that you were going to come back at me and be like, well, you shouldn't feel that way and I feel this way and you're just going to have to suck it up or whatever, and I think it's so weird that we've gotten to this point that we can just express ourselves like this.
Speaker 2:
The funniest shit was that I said to. I think I even started laughing when I said it to you. I was like I'm sure me showing you as much compassion and grace about it is probably we send you into a spiral and you're like it absolutely is your brain's on fire. What am I supposed to do with all these emotions?
Speaker 1:
And it's weird because it's not like I don't want to fight with you about it. It's just me expressing how I feel about it.
Speaker 2:
It's also that limbic reaction, like. It's that knee jerk reaction of expectations of like you're so used to like. Well, this is a hard conversation to have. It's something that he feels so passionate about. So, therefore, he's going to be defensive, he's going to be like this and like that, and which gut on his truth. That's your body's natural ability to protect yourself. It's those emotions that automatically like, sets up, like that steel rate of like I need to protect myself and you lock people out.
Speaker 2:
And the thing is doing that you're no longer listening. No one's listening. Everyone's listening with the intent to respond, and so, therefore, it's just like I'm going to listen to you. I'm like, here I am, well, I'm being respectful, I'm being respectful, I'm listening to you, and then you say what I got to do, and then I just got my shit cued up. I'm just like, when you're done talking, I'm just going to just say what I got to say, because that's what I would receive my point, and not me listening to where it is in your point.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, and you're better at that than me Like I can't. I mean, I wasn't always like that, I know, but I'm saying now you are, because I can't even tell, like when we are having those disagreements, that sometimes after I am finished speaking, you're quiet for like 30 seconds instead of just being like well, this is what I think and this is the reason I'm doing it, and you can like it or not.
Speaker 2:
Right, because, again, those 30 seconds, one thing that it has really helped me and it's changed me for the better, in the sense of that me being accountable and me holding myself accountable first is that because when you tell me something and what it is, you're telling me what is my part and how it is. You're failing, right, and me holding myself accountable and owning my part in it of like, well, I can see why you feel that way, because I did this and I let you up, and then I need to address that first in that and like that's how, like my thought process is, it's just like what's my hand in this and obviously that's if my hand is to be in it or what.
Speaker 1:
Right and it's like that.
Speaker 1:
I mean, normally I'm not really like attacking you. No, if something didn't happen Like you know what I mean Like it's like we don't fight a lot at all because, like I don't, we don't like pick at each other, right? So I think, like when we do have to have these difficult conversations, both of us know like okay, this isn't coming from a place of just like wanting to be a bitch or like wanting to like be an asshole or whatever. Right, like we know, if we're having these conversations, it's because this is something that's really bothering the other person and we really need to take that aspect of it into perspective. Right, because you're not just going to come at me about something like you know what I mean.
Speaker 1:
Like you never come in the house and are like, oh my God, like why didn't you do the dishes? Or you know what I mean, something like that. Or like I don't pick at you. If you like, leave your socks by the side of the bed or whatever it is what it is Like you know, like I don't. Like you do 100 things. Great, I'm not going to, I'm not going to focus on the one thing that you don't. That's just not like. That's just not our relationship. So I think when these issues do arise and I know we're being like so vague I'm sure everyone's like tell us what it's about.
Speaker 2:
You know another episode.
Speaker 1:
I'm like those.
Speaker 2:
We've been diving into, like the heavy duty you guys are going to need you guys money therapy after those episodes, because the thing is you guys need therapy for that one.
Speaker 1:
But yeah, like and obviously it's vague, but I think you know knowing that if I am saying these things to you it's out of really like love and just wanting us to continue to communicate, so that I don't shut down, because I do have like those tendencies, Like if I'm feeling upset about something and it's tough and I'm like I don't really want to like bring this up right now. I will kind of like close myself off to you a little bit, Right.
Speaker 2:
And I think that you know, and starting like with that conversation, right, like I think that a lot of things that happen like I don't know. I mean I almost feel like we have to almost kind of start with like how we got to the point that we are now in our communication, right, like I mean, it's like, when I think about, in the beginning it wasn't always like that?
Speaker 1:
No for sure, it's taken us the full. I mean so we've, we've been together almost seven years now, but I mean even the, the really tough time in our marriage that we've, that we've spoken about, like after Austin and everything like that. I mean, I think, even then you, you were, you, you were defensive.
Speaker 2:
Oh right.
Speaker 1:
Right. I mean, it's taken us a long time. We're not it's. We're not perfect about it. I get defensive, probably more than you do, but I think after Austin, like you, were super defensive.
Speaker 2:
But I also think it's just like the fact of the matter is that I think that the things that are not spoken about a lot is the fact of that At one point, you guys are two entirely different people, like you guys are strangers, right, and you have no idea what life this person has had. This person has no idea what life you've had and understand that in that life our thresholds are like this or like that. It's just so entirely different. So I think what ends up, the biggest thing that ends up happening, is that For in the words, this was the issue for, for, for me in the beginning was that you would tell me how you felt, but because my threshold was so high, because of the absolute insanity that I was used my life and how it was To me it was like you're making a big deal about nothing.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, there's no way you feel like that.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, there's no way. I'm like you think that's crazy. You don't know crazy, I see it crazy, that's what it turns into, but it's. But I think what do you say to me? Like just because it's not a big deal to you doesn't mean it's not a big deal to me, and that was like I'm like yeah, like I'm just like right what? And that was like the big. When you said that to me, I'm like oh shit.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, I think that was an understanding for you, right, because I was, it was perspective. Yes, I was desperately trying to explain to you like OK, I understand that this is not like the highest level of crazy that you've ever dealt with. Like OK, but I'm happy that it's less crazy for you. Just understand, this is the highest level of crazy this is. I don't I've ever dealt with anything like in my life.
Speaker 1:
I remember that, like in my 31 years like I, you're, you're, you're saying like, oh, this isn't even that crazy. I'm like to me, this is the most crazy.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, this is the most I remember like being there, like me and Charlie are just like we're looking at you, like laughing, and that was my biggest problem and this was like you know, I guess I think back to it. I think I think about I'm just like man, like how much I used to just absolutely like all those, how over your feelings about it. In the sense of that, I would say things like you're forcing it, like you don't feel that way, relax, pump your brakes. I used to say you know stuff like that. And then it's like I used to laugh at you, yeah, and you're like why is this funny to you? Like I am like this is absolutely insane and to me it's like it's normal, and then not understanding, just like we mentioned before in previous episodes of we were a town away, but who, worlds apart, like you were in complete, like I feel like a stranger things upside down, like you're in the colorful world, and so with that I'm in like the shit on the bottom side, like that's how I felt.
Speaker 1:
Like yeah, for sure. I mean, you would tell me stories that you thought were funny stories from your childhood and I would just be sitting there staring at you like stone face and I'm like are you expecting me to laugh at this? Yeah, like you're like yo, this thought was hilarious. I'm like this is not funny, baby.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, I know, and like, that's kind of like you know, to kind of like now saying, like you know, to kind of touch upon a little bit something that you had mentioned, like last week. I think it's like a map kind of like to give each other grace and understanding. It's like an understanding that like and also from us as men. Right, as men, we don't talk a lot about what we've been through and we can't, we can't, we can't compartmentalize things and we stash away shit.
Speaker 2:
And if there's one thing that I've learned, especially now more than ever, how much trauma as men we carry, that we never talk about Yep and that in our childhoods and stuff like that, and we don't understand in how much it manifests and how it really changes, how it is that we handle every aspect of our life, every decision, like in. Like I said, it's like how we, how we react, and you know, as we started progressing through our marriage and we kind of started to like go through that Cause. I remember there was even times for you that, because of me being what I've, what I've gone through, and the times that you would be like you're crazy right To me, I'm like, well, this is manageable.
Speaker 1:
I've managed crazily. This is just regular crazy yeah. Yeah, this is just regular crazy.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, two on the crazy scale. I'm like this is like 15. And and but in how much of it was a tool for you? Because in this, something that we learned, I might listen, you would, you would go off, you would go off on a tangent and you, if I hurt you, you needed to say something to hurt me bad. Yeah, absolutely. And and I I'm like, why did you feel, and I would ask you, mike, and I would ask you just like this, why did you feel you saying that Cause I know it's not how you feel was necessary, and I remember you were like Don't come at me with reason right now.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, You're like you're like what?
Speaker 2:
And I'm like like how was that even necessary in the conversation.
Speaker 1:
Well, I think I've never, I'd never, been in a relationship where anyone tried to de-escalate anything, right. So it was just like, let's just, let's just go at each other, and I'm someone who likes to be right, I love to be right. It's still like something that I who likes to be wrong, no, but I like, I like really, I like, really like to be wrong. I guess, like you know, it's something that I still like it has to be, like it doesn't matter, no, it doesn't matter. And like, what's the difference? Like really right. And I think the biggest thing that you taught me, or that you helped me with, was like does this matter to you more than you love the person that's standing in front of you?
Speaker 2:
Right? Does being right matter more to you than me? Does this?
Speaker 1:
argument matter more to you, right, and that's really helped me, just in general, on like knowing when to bring something up, like knowing when, like no, you know what. This actually is too important for me. I have to say something, right? But I think it just goes back to like that whole like why we don't pick at each other, right, because it's like I know, like I've heard my friends say like oh my God, like I was screaming at so and so, because like he keeps leaving a wet towel on like the bathroom floor, right, and I'm like just fucking pick it up. You know what I mean. Like really, like you want to start off, you want to get into a fight with your husband over that. Why Does it really matter? Isn't that more complicated and more difficult for you than just like you're going to step over it instead of just picking it up?
Speaker 2:
Well, I mean a lot of it turns into is that, like a lot of people don't realize that that is almost like there's something else, like I've realized that picking, there's something else that you're unhappy with, but you're just shoot, rather than having that uncomfortable conversation you're being, you just rather be like oh well, this is easy for me to talk about and it's quick, fast and easy and I can get these feelings out.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, it's usually resentment. It's usually resentment about like how to do more but.
Speaker 2:
I think like no one's just kind of like looking at it for what it is. They're just looking at it and then like to us, they're just like, oh well, just, you're just being a pain in the ass or you just being a bitch, or you're being like this or that or the other thing. So the other things are too. Is that like to get back to like how it was for us at the beginning? You know one thing I would say to you I'm like when you're ready to talk, we'll talk. And you're like what do you mean? I'm like I'm not gonna yell with you. I'm like I respect you and I love you too much to yell and if we can't talk about this, then we shouldn't have a conversation, because if we're yelling, no one's listening.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, which is another good thing. I think sometimes, like, if something's bothering me, I've thought about it like you know what, let me give this 24 hours, and if it's still bothering me in 24 hours, then I'm gonna bring it up, you know, instead of just immediately being like what do you? You know, like well, like why did you do this? Like why, you know, it's really helped us, like not be at each other's throats about things that, well, we're not at each other's throats, but like just not-.
Speaker 2:
I think it helps us with giving each other the respect right, like and that's like one thing.
Speaker 2:
It's like and now I'm not granted like there are times that we get heated, but even when we're heated and like we never disrespect one another, and it's like even when we get heated, I think at that point it becomes more of like I just need you to see my point, because this is how passionately I feel about it and then there's times that we're just like all right, like it's a stalemate, like when this conversation is not going anywhere. Yeah, we're talking in circles. Well, right, cause you know what it turns in, cause what the reason is why we're not getting anywhere. Is that because we're listening with the intent to respond? We're not like I'm not hearing what is you saying? Adjusting that, and then us finding a resolution, or and then me say what I had to say, and then us kind of breaking it down together and then us coming to a resolution together that worked for us, or us getting to the point of like you know what I have my feelings about this Respect, that you have your feelings about it.
Speaker 1:
I need to respect that Right because something that no one wants to hear and that I don't like personally is that sometimes there's not a resolution Right, and that's the thing is is that it's, it's that we have to, you have to make, I think, that kind of speaks for what today's day in age is.
Speaker 2:
Like God forbid you have any Differing opinion. Differing opinion it's not that anybody can have just a respect for each other of like. You know, you see it differently, but you know what. We had a great conversation and it's just like we have to agree to disagree and and and. That's the thing is like everyone thinks that that's such a cop out, but no, it's. It's because of what that person's life has been Exactly. That's their conviction. In your life, because of how it's been, that's your conviction. Yeah, that's super hard for me, though, like I think, because you and I really don't disagree on much.
Speaker 1:
when we do, I'm like, oh my God, like are we going to be okay? And I think that's kind of something I want to speak to too. Is that I think, up until you, it was like, well, we're in this huge fight, like I guess we're just going to break up. You know, like there's, you know, you can't just fight. You can't just fight Like you know, or you can't just just fundamentally disagree on something and still have a good relationship. And it's funny, like we were talking about it with our friend yesterday, like how we work really hard, like to not weaponize love in our house.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, right, and like something I always I always do for you is that I make your plate at dinner, like it's just something that like, yeah, that it's just what I do, right, and I was upset with you and you go to grab your own plate and I'm like what are you doing? Like I'm still going to make your plate, yeah Right.
Speaker 2:
Like, because for me it was love, was transactional for me for so long no-transcript. Well, when I do good I get love, when I don't do good I don't get love, and it was transactional and like for me. That was probably like my biggest thing that I had a work through was that and learn was Unconditional love, not love with conditions, and I think that that's something that a lot of people Live with and I know, like friends, like for a lot of people that worry on, like my circle of life Is that love is measured by how much you're willing to go through and still be there, right, so like, and that's why you would have people like when you would have arguments. Well, I have been through you, with you, through this, this, that and the other thing. I'm love and I'm still here and Love is like what's not love? That's like when you love somebody you don't hurt them to see, or you don't intentionally hurt them as A test of their love and their loyalty. It's like Fucked up, like, but that's how, that's how I was.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, that's the mentality, that was the mentality that I had, that I'm like love was measured because, like, I saw it happen in my own household, like growing up of like everything that my dad put my mom through and my mom was still there. And then it's just kind of like that's what you do, this is what you do, like you can be an asshole, you can do whatever the fuck you want, and it's like it doesn't matter and it's just like, well, like well, my mom really loved my dad because you know why she never left them. And I'm like and then here I am, having the same type of relationship, the same type of things, and like we're literally hurting each other back and forth. So many of my, you know, I almost feel as if I owed it to them To stay in this relationship because of everything bad that I did. Yeah, and it's like this transaction.
Speaker 2:
But then, finally, what ends up happening? That you grow up, you start learning things and all of a sudden, you're like, well, what is this debt paid? You're like, what if I paid it enough? And then you want to get off the ride. Yeah, and then like, so, when it came to like you know, now it's come full circle like when it came to the plate and I'm so used to like, all right, well, I'm gonna make my own food. Yeah, she's mad at me. I got to make my own food.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, and you're like what are you doing?
Speaker 2:
And I'm like make my plate. And you're like make it play. And I'm like. I looked at you and then you asked me like because obviously we're like. I looked at you and then you asked me like because obviously we're in front of the kids and something bad, we don't, we don't you know. You like, why, like, why do you do it? I'm like, well, it's because we had a disagreement before I was over. Dad. You're like I'm still gonna make it play. I'm like, and then that's like when it clicked to me.
Speaker 1:
Yeah.
Speaker 2:
I'm like, oh shit, like that's like, like that's where I learned unconditional love was with you, like. And you know, as we kind of started progressing and going through our marriage and then now it's like we're having these opportunities to implement these new tools, but everything starts With love and respect with us first, and I think that that's one thing we said to each other. We're like, let's make a promise on one another that no problem Is ever gonna be bigger than us.
Speaker 1:
Right, it has to be us against the problem. Right, it's not me and you against each other. I think that's the biggest thing. Like we don't really come at each other with like well, you did this or you did this. It's more like, hey, I'm feeling like this, can we talk about that?
Speaker 1:
Right we're not perfect about it. I mean, like when you came home the other day, like we were both kind of like escalated just with like what was going on in our own days and I think we somewhat took it out on each other. I'm sure it's like most people if, like they witnessed like that, like Archie bit that they have, that we had, they'd be like, uh, okay.
Speaker 2:
That's like I was at the beginning. That it's kind of like how I was at the beginning. You're like you call that.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, but for us, right, that's not like our baseline, right. So we kind of were like snipping at each other a little bit, like you were like oh, I'm so tired and I'm like, yeah, I had a long day too.
Speaker 2:
Like yeah, yeah, right, um, I hate this shit yeah.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, yeah, right. But then, like we immediately like reconvene in the basement, like, and I was just like, hey, I'm sorry, like I'm having a bad day, like I shouldn't have taken a note on you, you say what you feel about it, whatever. Like we don't really come to a resolution at that point. Right, I'm making dinner, like that kind of stuff, I need to go deal with the kids, etc. Etc. But we know at least, whatever we've reconvened on this, we'll talk about it later. Right, we're kind of in a, we've kind of come to a meeting point on.
Speaker 2:
it was like a reconnection in the sense of that we both said sweet each other, let's not be at each other's thoughts about this. Yeah, like we're going through a little, had a long day, I had a long day, let's not go out each other's throats. And then it was like all right, I love you, kiss, kiss. Even if it wasn't like our normal kiss, it was still like see you later. Yeah, like Till it.
Speaker 1:
uh, like it's like it's one of those things, and but One thing I like that we do or this, just kind of like in the side, but, like I was, I was crying like, and, as I was finishing dinner, it was just like the emotions of the day. Chiara obviously is old enough to realize like, okay, they're they're not like super happy with each other right now. Um, and Chiara like asked me if I was okay and everything, and I said, yeah, like we've just had a long day, like whatever. But then you know, we sit down to dinner and I make your plate and we're still having a conversation together, and I think it's really good for the kids to like see, like, hey, like you can be upset with your spouse or you they.
Speaker 1:
You know you might be disagreeing with something with your significant other, but you still have respect for them. You still have dinner together, you still make the plate, because that's what you always do. Like it doesn't have to be, like don't weaponize love. Yeah, the whole mood of the house doesn't have to change, right, like oh, no, mom and dad are are arguing, like that's not, that's not how our house is, and I think that's something that's really good for the kids and that's another thing too is just like we have our place to have our conversations and it's just like we don't do it in front of the kids.
Speaker 2:
No, that's like. That's like another big thing, but I think it's like one thing. Like I said, that is a major tool for us, is a fact of that, and I think it's something that a lot of couples. If you don't implement this in the beginning, it's something that now you're trying to struggle to find in which, for us, our common ground, the one thing that we can both agree on Is the fact of that. No problem is bigger than us. Yeah, and that's our common ground. So it's just like, no matter what, if that's your common ground, that's your baseline. Yeah, everything that comes after that, it's all going to start off of this. That, because now, all of a sudden, like this problem is, it's not Minimize, but it's something that is Manageable.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, it's not gonna get bigger than our relationship.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, we're gonna get bigger than us. And so, therefore, it'd be like because the other day I respect you and I love you enough because, guess what, this problem is never gonna be bigger than what you and I have. And so therefore, it's like All right, like if that's where we're starting from, like we can do anything, because, at the end of the day, at the beginning of the conversation is that in the end, it's gonna be that yeah, exactly, we're not gonna let it get so out of control that we lose sight of that problem right, that's that's the base, that that is your foundation, and I think that that's that's what we did differently.
Speaker 2:
That really helped us because, yeah, our baseline, like I think about that's a core, like that's where we start from, and we make sure that any conversation we have ends back at that point. You know what I'm saying, like that's for me is like, when I think about it, I'm like I think that that's probably like our biggest Thing, that we, that we both said like like this is what we protect, yeah, that that's our marriage.
Speaker 1:
Like that's inside of that is is, is Nothing's bigger than that right and I think that's why like and a lot of people probably disagree like with me, like still making your plate right, or like if we were planning on going on a date that night, like we would still go and like we would have a good time. Like it's it's. I just can't let this one thing in the grand scheme of our marriage like yes, is it affecting us Absolutely, but like it's not bigger than our marriage. It's just not right. Like we're still gonna go about our. We're still gonna go about Our lives. Are we gonna talk about it?
Speaker 1:
Yeah, it might be honestly, and maybe a lot of people don't want to hear this is like it might be All we're talking about for like a week, right. Like that's just, that's just how it is sometimes. Like, but I still Love you. Like I still want to be with you. Like if we're sitting on the couch Watching a movie, like you're still. You still will come over and like snuggle with me, even if we're, even if we're currently disagreeing.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, yeah, add a nod or something like that right, it's and, and and. It's like. That is Now translated Into how we handle that is how, like how we do, one thing is how we do everything. Yeah, so Us telling this is basically what we had like as a tool that we had to implement into our marriage, and then how it's now helped us in handling every aspect of our marriage, which is, you know, kids, like raising kids together. Now, let's, let's talk about that like it's. You know, like in the beginning of this episode we we had mentioned about that, our own traumas of being young parents and things in our own life that were unpacking and that we're getting better about, and obviously, the guilt that we also carry from Not being great parents in the beginning, like not doing things away, and how we we Wish we did differently.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, not just not being the parents that we want, that we Wanted to be right like, I think not having the tools to do that, but I think it's affected how I parent the younger two, particularly Camila, just because she, selena's just more of like okay, whatever type of type of kid, you know, it's just her personality. It's like a go along as I got along type of kid. Camila is not and that's okay, but it's definitely you know. I don't know how much you want to get into it, but so Camila is a highly sensitive Person. She has big, big feelings.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, she feels things till like a higher degree and and it's something that she has hypersensitivity. So it's like one thing. And understanding your child and this is one thing that we did differently is obviously you don't parent All your kids the same way and that's. But you know how I grew up with Everyone's not counted to the same, like everyone was the same, but I'm like, no, everyone sees and understands things differently. It's it's something completely different. So that was the one thing that we started with that. We're like you know what?
Speaker 2:
No, camila's different, um, and so like, for me, like my trauma in that is that, with Camila being so different, my biggest thing was is like, how much of this is my trauma of never being a kid and like, automatically I'm born an adult, like, and I'm like, well, don't do shit that kids do, and how much is this, like who she is. You know what I'm saying. So that was like my traumas and it's like, therefore, it's like that was a big moment of contention with us, because, like I would get upset and I would like like there's a mess, there's this, there's that, there's other things and you're like they're kids, they're kids. And I'm like, well, I shouldn't be like that, like stuff like that, and I'm just like wait a minute, like like I'm saying this because, freaking, I was never allowed to have, I was never allowed. You didn't have a childhood, I never had, I never had a childhood.
Speaker 1:
Right.
Speaker 2:
So, but then also in the same token. So now I'm like, all right, you know what, have a childhood but then I'm like I'm not implementing a Limits, a limit, yeah, for sure. I'm just letting her just go and then. But then I'm guilting myself about oh shit, like am I being too harsh, like am I being how my dad was? And now it's like, now it's messing with me. I'm like well then, how do I need to be?
Speaker 1:
Yeah.
Speaker 2:
Like, how do I do this the right way so that I'm not screwing up my kid the way I am? Like, do you know what I'm saying? Like, and it's like-.
Speaker 1:
I think for me with Kami, you know, I really wanted to do everything differently because I felt like I didn't do things exactly the way that I wanted to with Carly and I've spoken about this before like that, my way of disciplining was yelling and how I feel like it's affected her and I just wanted to be better this time around. But I think it's affected me almost to the point of like not ever wanting her to feel upset, not ever wanting her to like just wanting to jump in and fix it immediately for her when she does have those feelings, when, a I'm not always gonna be there to fix everything for her and, b she doesn't need me to fix everything for her. She has to feel those feelings, she has to be able to work through them, and I think you know but it's been challenging for us parenting her as she's gotten older and developed more of her own personality, for us to kind of come to a place where we feel like we're at a good point together of parenting her.
Speaker 2:
Right, and I think it's like so much of it is what it becomes and it goes back to like our separate worlds, right, I think it's like for me, it's like I was hitting me before like a necessary evil, right, and it's just the way in how, like my mind paints it, and then, versus, like the way in how you're brought up, it's like, obviously you're in this loving, nurturing area, right, and so, therefore, anything that it's like you see the discomfort or you see like the times that, like I would implement what I feel is necessary, because I'm like, well, how is she gonna learn limits if we never impose them?
Speaker 2:
Or how is she gonna learn how to manage her feelings if we never let her manage them? Right, so, if we jump in, if we jump in, so like times that I would feel like obviously for me and this is another thing is like for me, I think I'm able to tune it out and I'm able to handle it and look at it like differently, versus for you as a mother, you're just like hey, the noise, but it's also seeing your kid.
Speaker 1:
It's the emotional aspect of it right, like it's mothers are, like it's a biological need to stop your baby from crying their cries hurt you. Like that's just how it is. I'm also very bonded to Cammy, like she. It's just always been the way that her and I are. So when she feels upset I'm like, oh my God, like I don't want her to be upset, like now I feel upset. Now the whole house feels upset. Like I need to fix this, I need to fix this, I need to fix this right. But I think the disagreements you and I have had about it and it's I know, it's because I'm emotional about it and you're able to see things with less emotion and just kind of deal with it is that like I've felt. Like in the past there have been times that you've just decided to parent her one way, unilaterally, like without saying, like hey, I think we should do this, and then me feeling like I have to deal with the follow-up from that.
Speaker 2:
Right and which is like my reasonings for, like, the time that I've made those decisions is basically is me understanding that you I'm not gonna go?
Speaker 1:
along with it.
Speaker 2:
You're not gonna go along with it. It's just like, because it goes against everything that you are and what makes you so beautiful. And it's also one of those things of like, you know, and it's just so funny because obviously it's like I think we kind of have to just talk about what ended up happening, with how it was and like that night of like you know, this episode kind of happening and I made the decision because I'm just like, if I don't do this now, but you're right, it does not make it right. I did not talk to you about it. Well, I think so like and it was like no preparation for it.
Speaker 2:
It wasn't like you were blindsided by it and like you were pissed at me. You know, I don't like this. I was pissed, you were pissed, I was pissed. But you know what I'm like, you know what, baby, I'm sorry. I'm sorry, but it's like one of those things I'm like I just know that if I told you what it was I was trying to do A, you wouldn't have gone along with it, and but it does not make it right, because I should have given you a heads up.
Speaker 1:
Yeah. So I think for me, like just to clarify what we're talking about, the girls go down in their bed every night but then, like a very short amount of time later, they end up in our bed by like 10 30, you almost said. I mean they go to bed very early. They go to bed between 6 30 and 7. But like by 10 30 every night they're crying to come into our bed and it is something that both of us would like to stop. But when we brought up starting occupational therapy for Camila, you said like we need to stop letting them come in our bed and I said I'm just not really comfortable, like with having that conversation yet, like I want to figure out like the best way to do it, or like we need the tools first from, like you know, her having more coping skills, from having OT and stuff like that. And you were just like well, yeah, like OK, whatever. That was the end of the conversation.
Speaker 2:
And then, like two nights later, you just were like but the thing is, is that, like we, I started implementing points of letting her sitting her feelings, where because like, one thing's that like I would say to her like, like, if she do a tantrum, right, I would get down on her level? I would basically be like you know, cammy, I'm going to say you get, you have big feelings about this. You know, you can have your feelings. I'm going to put you on the couch, you can have your feelings, but she's Full bore, like, she is like crying, screaming, something like that. She's very willful, very willful, oh my god. So at this point I'm like, if this is how you're going to have your feelings, then I'm going to bring you upstairs. You can have your feelings in your bedroom.
Speaker 2:
That was just for me, the intuition of like I need to remove her from the situation, of because now she's still seeing, like she's around all of us, and so for me, I'm looking at it as like, well, I just need to deescalate this in the sense of that I need to remove her from the situation and I and I put upstairs in her room for you, and this is how you wish it to me was that? Well, now we're just leaving her alone and like and I could completely sorry your way. And that was the reason why I'm like you know what OT I think is going to be great? Because for me, exactly, I'm like shit, I am leaving her alone and like I don't want her to feel like as if, like I'm isolating her, like yeah, I guess I'm doing this and doing that, like I'm like you're right.
Speaker 1:
Like you don't want her to feel like she has to deal with her feelings alone. Right. Like I don't want her to feel like they're not OK. Right, it's OK to have whatever feelings you want.
Speaker 2:
So that's why I said I'm like, you know, you're right. I'm like maybe I'm not handling this correctly and I just want to make sure I am, or if I'm not.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, well, it turns out that you are, because very annoyingly about you is that you have good instincts about these things, and the occupational therapist told me that you were right about that.
Speaker 2:
I wasn't right about everything.
Speaker 1:
OK.
Speaker 2:
Everything. Ok, she did. Ok, everything she did. She said right about everything. Kyle's right about everything, guys, all right, I'm just saying Kyle's right.
Speaker 1:
Um, but no, it's hard, right, like kill me after this. I know. No, no, we just talked about how we've dealt with, how we work through our fights. I'm not going to tell you. Well, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:
No, no, no, no exactly. But like to get back to that it's I think it's so much of like in me, kind of unpacking everything that I've been through in my life and this is, this, goes back to thresholds and so much different and deeper understandings and just different things. Is that like obviously in my mind I'm unpacking it and I'm thinking about it in a sense of like, all right, because Camila's mind works almost identical to mine.
Speaker 1:
Yeah.
Speaker 2:
And obviously I'm trying to think back to like me and me putting myself in her shoes, because Camila's mind is very much. How my mind works is because she's super. She notices every small little detail. Yeah, she's super detailed and also, on top of that, she puts things together very quickly. So it's like she's constantly like that wheels moving.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, her brain is working all working all the time, and like she's putting two and two together and she thinks it all quick, and like she's like there's no flies on her, like she's she's, she's like all right, I'm lining you up and I think about it. For me, it's like I had it beaten out of me, like I had it beaten to me that I'm like all right, I can't act this way, I can't act this way, and so I'm just left with not understanding anything. Versus with Camila, like, I think at the beginning it was almost like as if it was like we were almost cheating it, almost like as if it was a disability in the sense of that we were. We had to make sure she wasn't feeling this way, yeah, and we had to control the situation of something that's uncontrollable, because and that's what ended up happening and then that's where our frustration would settle in, as opposed to us nurturing her, her God-given talent and the disability that she has, but then also being able that you know what we have to.
Speaker 2:
I think it's like probably the best way to put it. It's like it's like being given superpowers and not knowing how to wield it correctly. It's like you know, it's like you can shoot a laser beam out of your eye, but like in the beginning, it's like this wild inferno. It's just these crazy things that it just goes every. We have no. And then they work with like the sensei or the guru, like the Obi-Wan Kenobi, like the type deal like that and they just teach them just to kind of concentrate. And I'm thinking that's probably the best way to probably put it.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, which I think is like why we really decided to start OT, right, because that gives her, like, the skills that she needs, and also us like to know, like okay, this is how we should deal with it. And obviously, like, for me, hearing it come from like a clinical perspective is a lot easier for me, right, because, like this person telling me, this is a doctor, there's research behind this, like they're educated in it.
Speaker 1:
They're educated in it and they're I have no relationship with this person other than they're the child, I'm sorry, other than that they're the person evaluating my child. So it's easier to take right. Like I think, when you're saying something to me like that, it's hard for me not to be emotional about it, because sometimes your delivery can be harsh, correct, and that's because it's just like a little bit too straight to the point for me, especially when we're talking about our kids. Like I'm like well, I am literally like in a puddle of tears over this and you are just like well, this is how I think that we should be handling it and you know, this is what I think is gonna be right for her. And it's not that you're saying like this is how we have to do it. But even you just saying that to me like so plainly and like harshly, I guess, is just like I'm like dude, like I I think it's I need this delivered in a different way.
Speaker 2:
I think it's because you're looking at it through the lens of like well, you're her father, how can you just be so calculated about it? And I think it's just more so. And, like I said, it's because of the emotional part of it and I think it's like for me. I'm looking at it like well, this is a resolution for my child, because the thing is is that like-.
Speaker 1:
Well, maybe that's what it is, because you're very solution oriented. It did that's all it is.
Speaker 2:
That's all it is, and it's just us as men. It's resolution oriented. It's like there's a problem, we fix it, that's. It's that versus-.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, I'm trying to just like-.
Speaker 2:
You're her father, you're supposed to be-.
Speaker 1:
Well, I'm just also like getting all my feelings out about it and maybe like at that point, I'm not looking for you to be like well, tonight we're gonna keep her in her room, like at all costs, like, and I'm like whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, like I'm just trying to have this conversation with you. I'm not, I'm not even, I'm not even there yet Like for what we should implement. I'm just venting to you about my feelings as her mother, about this.
Speaker 2:
And like you know for for us, and like we're not saying that, like not saying like I locked my kid in the room this no, no. I'm like Sorry no, we're both the whole time with her. I was lying down with her.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, I'm lying down with her the whole time, just in her bed instead of in our-. Exactly.
Speaker 2:
And but we're allowing her to have her emotions, but also being able for her to work through her rationality, cause she's like well, I just want to, I just want, mommy and daddy, well, we're in bed with you, right, and we're in your bed. And then, at that point, she's like well then, why am I?
Speaker 1:
crying.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, well, yeah, that is true. Yeah, like I have everything I want. Why am I crying? And I'm like you gotta stay in your bed, and then it's just like a matter of just letting her be in it. And what's crazy was that from that one night and it's not just that per se that we've noticed a massive change. We've implemented a lot of changes in our house recently that we feel, you know something that you know it's important, I think, for kids, especially if they do have sensitivity conditions and things like that. But you know, since implementing that, we noticed the tantrums were like almost have become non-existent.
Speaker 1:
We haven't had one actually in 10 days.
Speaker 2:
I think Right yeah, Like she learned a limit.
Speaker 1:
She learned like like okay, well, camila is very, very very smart and she knows, and this is oh.
Speaker 2:
So this is a great thing to kind of bring up, because in the beginning and this goes into my delivery right I would say to you I would basically be like she's too smart, she knows what she can get away with.
Speaker 1:
Well, that was the issue I was having, that you were saying like she knows what she's doing, and I'm like stop saying that. My kid is manipulative. She's four, she can't manipulate people. She doesn't even have that understanding.
Speaker 2:
But what I should have probably been saying. I'm like she's not manipulating, she is making connections. She knows, if I do A, the result is B. Yeah, and that's just what it is. It's not that they're doing it intentionally, is that they're making connections. And since Camila is extremely bright, she's learning because for me she would do what she did to you, to me, right, because she knew, if I do that with dad, I'm not gonna get that same result yeah, she's not gonna give it to me, he's not gonna give it to me.
Speaker 1:
Versus. That is the noise Like I can't sometimes. I just can't take it.
Speaker 2:
Right, it's a lot, especially with everything else that's going on. We have a crazy house. Yeah, our house is loud, it's not. It's a loud house, it's between all the kids, the dog. Someone usually has a friend over, it's just. You know, I'm playing with my system trying to screw something. Like music's going, the different noises, different noises. It's a lot. It's obviously the overstimulation of things, yeah, and so therefore, it's just like, exactly, it's like you just want peace and so therefore you're gonna. Well, what's the resolution for you to get peace? It's give her what she wants, absolutely, and. But in a way it becomes like like you're like.
Speaker 1:
I'm hindering her in a way. Yeah for sure, yeah.
Speaker 2:
And you know, and, like I said, a lot of that is in understanding my role and my delivery to us getting onto the same page. And it's because of and this is what I'm saying to you, mike, even if it's not your problem you need to, you need to hand, you have to accept your role in everything, especially in a family. I think it's regardless if it's your fault or not your fault. It's like you have to assume your role in it, like you have to own your part.
Speaker 1:
I mean, we're all guilty of it, right. I think the girls, right, because I think like we're picking a show. Kami does have such a strong personality that it's like, well, just give Kami what she wants, because we want peace in the house, right? And I told you like I had such a long conversation about this with my sister and she was referring to one of her kids and saying how they're so different around her than they are.
Speaker 2:
With their friends.
Speaker 1:
With their friends or even with anybody else in the family. And it kind of made me make that connection, like, huh, everything you're saying about you and your relationship with your child is extremely similar to me and Camila and, obviously, where sisters were very similar, we were raised by the same person, right by the same people, like you know it's. And then breaking that down further, like, and you brought it up to me like, well, think about like other relationships in your family, that kind of follow that same pattern, right, and I'm like, huh, I do need to accept my role in this. And I was mad, kind of upset with you because when I told you about this conversation, you very, very much so agreed with me and kind of elaborated on how you felt that that was the case and I was like, okay, well, I was hoping that you were gonna be like no, babe, that's not like that.
Speaker 2:
You're like oh, You're like doesn't make me feel better. I'm thinking, maybe you feel like shit.
Speaker 1:
What you have to tell me. The truth. Add to be the truth.
Speaker 2:
You have to yeah absolutely I have to be that mirror, like because nothing's gonna get fixed, and just understand that, like us as parents, it's like our decisions and like and if we have to. Obviously you know one thing that is great about us that we do own our shit. Yeah, and that's the thing is it's just like, sometimes, like you gotta admit your hand in the monster you've created and we've said that to each other. We're like, well, I mean, can we start? No, not a monster, but the thing is, is that, well, like that emotion monster? Like well, let's put it to like that. I'm not saying I'm a kid, a monster, but we've. The monster is is that her inability to handle her emotions in a way that is constructive or in a way that is of good nature to her? Like, and that's the thing is, it's just like, for instance, like a perfect example, like as I was talking to you about it last night I mean this morning, so last night, same thing.
Speaker 2:
These are waking up in the middle of the night. So I went in there and she wanted mom. I laid down with Dom and stuff like that. I'm like no, you guys are staying in your bed. So Camila sits up and she's ready. I can see it in her face. She's ready, like I want my mom and I'm gonna get my mom. And then she's like, well, I just want mommy, I'm like this. So then I go like this, I'm like, yeah, you're able to weed her out. And no, no, but she. But mind you, she just looks at me.
Speaker 1:
It was fast too, because normally fast.
Speaker 2:
It was fast. I just looked at her, didn't say a word. I'm like this.
Speaker 1:
Normally I'm in bed like.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, I know, you're just like Lord if you listen.
Speaker 1:
I want to go get her yeah.
Speaker 2:
And I am, and I just stare at her for probably five seconds. She's like Shin boom hits, lays down and my head was right, my hand was right there, cause you always sleep like that. And then she's like this yeah, and I'm like okay, kid, like just just just sitting there, like it's okay. Yeah, it's okay to be mad about that, but she knew she was like she knew she was like I need to stay here.
Speaker 1:
And the thing is is like she does extremely well with limits. That's actually how our work works. We've kind of come to learn and like we did a screen detox again in our house and we did two weeks, I think, with no screens whatsoever and now we've added it back in. But they know they get one hour and I set a timer and that's it. And they they get to decide throughout the day when they would like to use their hour. And I thought they would be giving me such a hard time about it. But literally I set the timer and I tell them okay, you know, you turned it on at 10, 15, at 11, 15, it's over. I set the timer, it goes off. The timer goes off.
Speaker 1:
Kami gets up, grabs the remote and shuts the TV off and she does not ask me for the entire rest of the day. And it's the same thing whenever we go to a park or anything. If I don't set a timer, trying to get her out of there is a nightmare. But if I tell her I set a timer, it's gonna go off, then you choose one last thing that you get to do. That kid leaves with no problem. So I know she functions very, very well when those limits are set. It's just a matter of me being able to like handle the emotions that she feels when things don't go her way, still implementing those limits Right.
Speaker 2:
And then, like you know, for example, would be like when we went to the mall, the mall, and it was time to leave, and you know they were in the plane and she did not want to leave, she put herself on the floor. Now, I was prior to how I was. I was like one of those parents like when I see kids do that, and I was like I would look at my kids and like she'd be like, if you ever did some shit like that, I'm like man, I was like I'd carry you up by your neck, like it was one of those things cause that's how it was for us Like we would get my mom would take us to a bed, you know, light us up. Well, we knew not to do that, but it was, it was, and that's the thing is like we just like this.
Speaker 2:
At that point we would just stop being kids, couldn't do anything bad. But I remember, like when she put herself on the floor and she's like you know feeling, I remember I, middle of that mall, got down on my knee, I'm like, well, just stand here until you're ready to walk. She's like she stood right up because she was like, look, realize where the hell. She was yeah, and she was like, oh, I don't want to say everyone's looking at me.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, and one thing that the OT said to me that really kind of like struck me was that, like we have to let them have those feelings, even if that feeling is embarrassment or that feeling is like shame, because they're realizing, because they're realizing and that's how they learn, like that's how they learn, like empathy, and that's how they learn.
Speaker 1:
You know that I'm gonna have these feelings and I have to figure out how not to have these feelings. And one thing she said to me was because I was explaining a difficult situation that I had with Cammy over a specific food that she wanted for lunch and I was explaining to the OT, like how I handle it, and she was saying, like you're saying too much, like you have to just let her sit with the feeling of like, okay, I really want this, but I'm not gonna get it and I have to figure out, like, how to get myself out of this emotional whirlwind that I'm in. She said because if you don't, you know you turn around and they're freshmen in college and you're bringing them that food. You're driving hours every day to bring them that food because they don't know how to handle not getting it. And I was like, oh Jesus, like I never thought of that, but it's true.
Speaker 2:
I mean, we see it. I mean we see it like I've seen other relationships of people that, like their kids, are grown ass adults.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, and it's so co-dependent.
Speaker 2:
Well, right, and it's just kind of. You know, the hardest thing is just like like, for example, I've seen people when then they lose that parent and he's like you taught me how to live, but you never taught me how to live without you. And then like they're just crippled and I remember saying that to you a lot of the times. I'm like it's not good that it's being done like that. I'm like you're crippling that kid because they're never gonna know how to stand on their two feet if you're not there. And the fact of the matter is, life is so unpredictable and we are we cannot guarantee that to our kids.
Speaker 1:
I think a lot of it for me is like my own feelings about like being a mom, like and if, if and I thought about that like, oh my God, like I really would drive hours to bring my kid food at college, right, and I'm like because I think it's like my own, like if I'm not a mom, then like what am I? And like to me, like being a mom is like being at my kids, like like fixing everything for them, right. Like I need to take care of this for them, cause if I don't, then like I'm not being a mom, right. But I think that's something I have to like work backwards through and kind of like figure out where that, where that comes from, because, like, obviously there's so many ways that their mom that don't mean that I have to be at their every back and call.
Speaker 2:
Right and like for me. It's like I look at it as just like. You know what I have to give my kids the tools to. This world is not pretty. This world is not what our house is. It's not that safe place. This world will kick your ass and keep you there if you let it. And it's one of those things of like and how harsh this world is that I want to give them the tools to be able to handle things on their own, cause guess what? I can't, I won't be there.
Speaker 2:
If they want to go to college in a different state, how am I, how, how? And then that's why you see a lot of kids that they move back cause they can't handle it Because, fuck, I don't have my mom here. I don't have my dad here to hit to do this stuff for me. So I don't know and like. It's like all those anxieties, it's all these different things that they end up happening. It's like you're just crippling your kid. They don't know how to live without you. And it's just like I don't want to do that to my kid. I want my kid to go out and experience the world, like do things that I never did, like travel and go there and go there and give them the sense to do it.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, I think this is probably why, like us, having really different perspectives and having really different upbringings helps, right, because you know like you, you have like that, it's not a harshness, but you have like that reality to you and I think that's a good thing to teach our kids too, right, yeah? And then like they get like the like softness. I guess I think you're soft with them too. I shouldn't like.
Speaker 2:
I think you know what it is it's we're giving them nature and nurture? Yeah, I'm nature in the sense of like. This is reality and the fact of the matter is that nature is like nature is sometimes ugly versus you're giving them the love and the nurture.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, and I mean I don't. I don't want to make it. You're not harsh with the kids at all. You're extremely loving, like you're. You're definitely a safe spot for all our kids, oh right, but I think just teach it. I think you're. You're definitely better about like teaching them like the harsher ways of the of the world.
Speaker 2:
But what the reality is? Yeah, like, in, in, in, in, making sure that, like they have the tools to get out there and do it. But, honestly, you had to teach me how to be soft, how to be and how to be that way and how to be that nurture Like you. That's something that you taught me and do, like you, being the beautiful person that you are. That I say to you all the time I'm like if you, I don't want you any different.
Speaker 1:
I say that I say to you.
Speaker 2:
I'm like cause like cause. Like. You're like, well, I don't understand you. I'm like, I'm glad you don't understand me. I was like I am fucked up. I'm like, if you understood me, that means you to be just as demented as I am. And I'm glad you're not. And I was like, because that's what makes you beautiful, that's exactly why it's. It's yin and yang, it's the black and white, but it's balance, it's through both of us. It's like we're that balance and and we're unlocking that for each other and we're unlocking that for our kids, and we're realizing our strengths and we're playing to our strengths and what all? While working on our weaknesses and and learning how to give each other grace in that, in that, like you know what, like we had two entirely different lives but in yet, we're just trying to just make our life together. Yeah, together, like and make it.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, I think I guess it's probably just to kind of like wrap it up and go back to like the beginning of the episode and where you're talking about, like, how to like fight fair. Essentially, I think it's just like a really that willingness to know that the other person is coming from a good place with it. Right, right, like you're not, you're, you're not telling me like yeah, you know what, babe, like I think, like you're, the way that things are with Camila like could be, could be adjusted a little bit. You're not telling me that because you are trying to be a dick, like, or because you want to make me feel a certain way Like. You are just telling me that because, like you're my husband and you know that it's affecting me and you want things to be better. Right, like, and I think, just knowing that the other person is not coming at you out of a place of like, oh like, I just want to like make you feel bad about something is really important.
Speaker 2:
I think it's also understanding the fact that there's plenty of people in this world are going to lie to you, and that there's that the truth isn't always pretty, the truth is sometimes ugly, but it's necessary, and I think it's an understanding that me being truthful with you is because I only I'm telling you the truth, because I love you, and that there's people that you need those people in in your life that are going to basically say like hey, like, like it's not no one else's fault other than your own right.
Speaker 2:
Yeah we need to fix this and we need to fix this. Like and understand. You need to fix it. It's no one else's problem, it's yours, and that's the hardest thing.
Speaker 1:
It's like this is when you start to sound harsh Right.
Speaker 2:
Right, it is.
Speaker 1:
It's nobody else's problem, it's yours. Well, it's your job to fix it. Yeah, I know, but like it's all about the delivery, it's all about the delivery.
Speaker 2:
It's about that, but right and like it's in. That's essentially with what it is, but I don't say that's where you reel me back in. Like it's like, but it's what is your responsibility to fix it?
Speaker 1:
Yeah, no, 100 percent.
Speaker 2:
It's your responsibility to fix it, like, and that's and I think that that's the problems and that's the things that a lot of people lack these days Is that like your self-awareness? Oh my God, it's, it's. It's like, well, it's your fault. You may be this way, like, yeah, but it's also your choice to stay that way. I'm I'll, I will help you get out of it, but you need to do your. You need to own your shit and own your part. Yes, and I think that that's the part where we progress as parents. Is that guess what? Whereas, right, as we feel that we're doing with Camila and we're doing our best, she can come back and you know what? I screw this up, and that was like the beautiful thing about like, and that's what I learned with grandpa.
Speaker 1:
Yeah.
Speaker 2:
That's the one thing he taught me. That guy was always evolving, always evolving, and, I can, he was way ahead of his time Back then. Yeah, for sure, but he was always evolving and he to, to, to to the very end. He was like he would own his shit. Yeah, he would apologize to his kids for stuff yeah sorry I should.
Speaker 2:
I wish I knew then what I know now. Yeah, and that's all it is. It's like we're constantly, as parents, we need to evolve with our kids and we always need to be that. You know what. I'm sorry that I brought you here, but guess what? I'm here now and I'm going to help you get out.