Discerning What Doesn’t Serve You, Finding Your True Calling, & Thriving in Public Speaking - Nausheen I. Chen is RightOffTrack

Anya Smith:
Hello everyone and welcome to RightOffTrack, the podcast that embarks on an expedition through the captivating stories of individuals who've embraced unique paths on their journeys towards personal success. Today, our spotlight shines on the force to be reckoned with, Nausheen I. Chen, a French-Pakistani visionary and virtuoso of the spoken word. Nausheen's story, however, is more than a tale of mastery. It's a testament to the power of redefinition. In the year 2022, She wasn't just a coach or a TEDx luminary, she was a filmmaker who spent seven years crafting stories on screen. She built an entire boutique filmmaking agency from scratch, compelling it to an astounding one million in revenue. Yet even those who seemingly have it all figured out, yet even those who seemingly have it all figured out encounter crossroads. Burnout was a reality, and Nausheen  found herself at a junction where her passion for filmmaking flickered. uncertainty loomed and it was a digital platform, LinkedIn that breathed new life into her narrative. With unwavering determination, Nashi embarked on transformation. She started writing every day, sharing her insights and experiences. She engaged with her audience every day, igniting meaningful conversations. Igniting meaningful conversations. She networked with purpose every day, forging connections that would prove pivotal. In this journey of self-discovery, Nausheen 's true passion emerged like a guiding star, public speaking. What had been lingering in plain sight was now an undeniable calling. It stirred a fire within her, a fire she was determined to unleash. And as she started her newfound passion, a remarkable realization dawned. She could help others find their voice too. The response was resounding. They wanted to learn to work alongside the speaking of transformation. And so at the age of 39, Nausheen  made a bold decision. She bid farewell to her filmmaking business, a chapter that defined her for years, and at eight, excuse me, and at 40, she embarked on a courageous journey of reinvention, emerging as a luminous public speaking coach. This is a story that shouts to the mount tops, it's never too late to become who you're meant to be. As Nausheen shows, life is an unending canvas of possibilities, inviting us to shed the constraints that hold us back. So dear listener, as you join us on this episode, Take note of Nausheen 's journey, a journey that navigated the world of filmmaking and public speaking, a journey that uncovered the power of redefining oneself. Get ready to be inspired as we dive into the inspiring life of Nausheen I Chen, a living testament that embracing the unconventional can lead to unparalleled success. Without further ado, I'm so excited to have you here, Nausheen . Thank you for joining us.

nausheen i chen:
Thank you so much for having me, Anya. That was such an amazing introduction. It's just the light at the end of my day today on Friday. So thank you so

Anya Smith:
Ugh,

nausheen i chen:
much.

Anya Smith:
I appreciate you joining us. I'm here in Seattle, Washington area. Where in the world are you so our listeners can know?

nausheen i chen:
I'm in Toulouse, France.

Anya Smith:
That sounds amazing. I'm jealous.

nausheen i chen:
Ha ha ha!

Anya Smith:
I'll come visit. But I

nausheen i chen:
Please

Anya Smith:
would

nausheen i chen:
do.

Anya Smith:
love that. I'll take my three kids on the plane. It'll be great. But before we dive in, I just want to do a little shout out. I always try to recognize the people that made this possible. So Jane, if you're listening to this, thank you so much. She's an amazing human being and connector. She was on our podcast, Check Out our episode. And she was like, when I asked her who would be a great person for the podcast, she was like, OK, you have to reach out to this amazing human being. She has this amazing story. And I looked and did your LinkedIn check and your Instagram check and I was so impressed. Not only because you're helping people find their voice and become confident in it, but also you've made significant changes in your life that weren't easy, I can imagine. And you were sharing that so authentically. So I'm really excited to dive into that.

nausheen i chen:
Thank you. I'm very excited to have this conversation.

Anya Smith:
And if you don't mind just like take it wherever you want to start because I know you've had a lot of achievements along the way But could you share a little bit of like what? The journey was like getting to those success points even to like the filmmaking agency is in itself a great endeavor But then you found a pivot that was necessary to get to where you're today So can you share like what was that journey like to get to one amazing accomplishment? And then why did you pivot to this?

nausheen i chen:
Sure. So, Anya, you know that annoying kid who always gets up in front of the entire family and recites the most boring poem ever? I used to be that annoying kid. I have...

Anya Smith:
Awesome.

nausheen i chen:
Yeah, it was... I didn't realize how awesome it was till very recently, but I have always been in love with performing on stages, performing in front of people, in different shapes and forms. And not just performing, but speaking. training and coaching, but I always did it on the side. My first career was in the corporate world. I was in Procter and Gamble doing marketing and PR and on the side, I became a communication skills trainer. I was training people double my age in presenting well and communicating well. But it was something I was doing on the side. I had no idea that. That is what I should be doing, not marketing and PR. Five years later, I left the corporate world, had my first big pivot where I just meandered around for a while. I traveled, did some improv, standup comedy, theater, meandered into film. It was never the plan. It was never my dream. I was never a filmmaker. My partner at the time. He was a musician and a filmmaker and a creative soul. So I just went along for the ride, but I ended up in New York studying film. And then I ended up in China where I started this filmmaking agency. Again, I was never an entrepreneur. I don't come from a family of entrepreneurs at all. I come from a family of teachers and government workers. So

Anya Smith:
Yeah.

nausheen i chen:
it was all very, very new and it completely took over my life. In the seven years that you talked about that I was a filmmaker, every year, I had multiple moments where I would ask myself, Narsheen, what are you doing? You're not a filmmaker.

Anya Smith:
Mm-hmm.

nausheen i chen:
Why are you in this? But I was in too deep, especially

Anya Smith:
Mm-hmm.

nausheen i chen:
when you start growing and you start a small team and you have salaries to pay people to take care of projects, clients, it all just... takes over your entire life.

Anya Smith:
Mm.

nausheen i chen:
And before I knew it, seven years had passed. And I had another one of those moments where I was telling my husband, I am so unhappy. I feel like I've created a prison for myself

Anya Smith:
Mm-hmm.

nausheen i chen:
because I can't even blame anyone. It's my own thing, but I feel so stuck. I don't wanna be here, but I don't know where else I wanna be. I don't know what else I wanna do with my life. And he said, Narsheen, do you realize that you love speaking on stages? Cause he had seen me do it for the last 10 years that we'd been together. And he knew that I was doing it before as well. And I said, sure. I was like, where, where is he going with this? And he said, why don't you figure out a way to earn a living through speaking? And I said, nah, who's going to pay me to speak? I'm not Tony Robbins. It's never going to work out.

Anya Smith:
Yeah.

nausheen i chen:
He encouraged me, he said, just try it anyway.

Anya Smith:
Mm-hmm.

nausheen i chen:
You can't possibly be more unhappy than you are right now. What have you got to lose? So I went through this whole period of just figuring out what is it about public speaking that I can actually do as a living. And that's where LinkedIn really helped me because in a way I built in public. I started posting about anything and everything. I just had this idea in my head that it's going to be LinkedIn. That's going to help me build this business, but I had no idea how I hadn't taken a course, I wasn't following a LinkedIn guru. I didn't have an MBA, nothing. So I just started posting and I started getting traction around the topic of public speaking. And I had. always known in a way that people were scared of speaking in public, but I had no idea to what extent it affects their personal and professional lives. How crippled they feel, how suffocated they feel, how much they're holding themselves back because they don't feel comfortable on camera. They don't feel comfortable on stage. So that's how I found. my calling and I really feel like this second major pivot is the one that I had been working towards through 39 years of just meandering and going down rabbit holes that I never belonged in. So now I coach people to speak better on stage and on camera and that's really, really very close to my heart.

Anya Smith:
I love that. A, thank you for being vulnerable and it sounds like you have an amazing keeper guy.

nausheen i chen:
Thank you.

Anya Smith:
Who's challenging you and supporting in the best way, which is amazing. And I know not everybody has that, but it is incredible to have people who see our strengths on the sideline. Like, well, this is definitely what you should be doing, right? And they're rooting for us, even though they may not understand everything we're doing and they may not get as excited. Like I know my husband. supports me. He's not like, Anya, I don't get excited about all the guests, but I support and love you and believe in you. So

nausheen i chen:
Yeah.

Anya Smith:
it's good to have that balance. Even people don't fully understand all that. But one thing you said, if you don't mind us diving in, is that there was a path that you kind of you fell into this entrepreneurial life, although it wasn't necessarily something that was bringing you to life, but it kind of naturally progressed because you're a badass and you're just like, I'm just going to make it happen. But I'm curious from that experience now reflecting back at it. Could you recommend how to seek out when you're falling to the wrong pursuit? When maybe those warning signs that maybe in hindsight now seem clear about like, and I'm not saying it's wrong because everything in life is teaching us, right? It was kind of, you wouldn't be here, maybe I'm wrong, without the

nausheen i chen:
Yeah.

Anya Smith:
experiences that shaped you, right? But were there any reflections in hindsight that you could have observed that, hey, I'm good at it and I'm making it happen, but maybe this is not the right path? and I should be honoring that.

nausheen i chen:
For me, it was how I felt at the end of a project. Because each project was long. These commercials, I was a commercial director, so these commercials took anywhere from two to three, sometimes four or five months to make. So it was, imagine four to five months of hard work, not just mine, I always put together a team of anywhere from five to 17 to 25 people to work on a single project. and everyone working super hard at times through the night. We would usually film for anywhere from 15 to 18 hours, sometimes 22

Anya Smith:
Wow.

nausheen i chen:
at a stretch. Small budgets, you gotta make them last for as long as possible.

Anya Smith:
Yeah.

nausheen i chen:
So at the end of the day, I never felt proud of the work that I did. And I've always thought to myself, what a pity. And I knew it was a combination of lack of passion. And lack of skill. I cannot say that I'm a great filmmaker because I never felt like I had a vision. I think every creative director, every filmmaker has a vision. That's why they get hired. I was always on the side of, I want to make sure my actors are giving their best performance. I want to make sure that the CEO is as natural and relaxed on camera. But. What kind of colors should it have? What is the genre of this commercial? What kind of music should it have? Oh my God, I would like start tearing my hair out because I had no creative vision and I felt terrible. I felt like a fish trying to ride a bicycle because I didn't have the passion for it. So I wasn't teaching myself those things, even though I had a master's degree in it, but a master's degree only teaches you so much. You have to really go out and be passionate about it to... Constantly be learning, which I just never had the incentive to do. So how you feel at the end of a project, are you proud of it? Or do you feel dread? Do you feel like you just need to move on to the next one? And whether you are deep into it, whether you are studying it by yourself, whether you're looking up things and reading up things and watching things for inspiration, again, all. filmmakers, for example, will always be doing those things. And I didn't find myself doing that unless it was for a project. So those were really big red flags.

Anya Smith:
Right, I appreciate you sharing that. And do you mind also sharing, what was that point of like, this no more? Right, what were the signs that said like, I'm done, like this is, I need to do something different. Like we don't talk about this. And I appreciate it again, honestly, you sharing because a lot of times what we see even on the thing is like somebody doing really well, right? And we write even post all authentically about burnout, but I think it's very different when we

nausheen i chen:
Yeah.

Anya Smith:
just really talk about those experiences and how we learn from them, you know, even though they're probably felt pretty shitty. And how that

nausheen i chen:
Yeah.

Anya Smith:
shaped us.

nausheen i chen:
I track what I say to other people. I'm an extrovert. So I talk to think this is one of those interesting distinctions that someone told me and it stuck around in my brain that introverts think to speak, but extroverts speak to think, so I think best when I'm speaking out loud and especially if there's someone else, even if there isn't sometimes I speak to myself. But. I found myself complaining about the same things over and over. And I've found that this is a good pattern to watch out for. Because if I am grumbling about the same thing to different people, clearly there's something that I need to fix because I don't want to be stuck in this victim mindset. I don't want to be stuck thinking that I can't do anything about it, but I'm going to complain life is so hard. Things are

Anya Smith:
Yeah.

nausheen i chen:
so bad. I am so upset or I'm so burnt out or I'm so unsatisfied. Well, do something about it, Narsheen. You are the agent in your own life. Thankfully, you're a free agent. You don't have to listen to anyone else when it comes to your own career, to where you wanna take your life. So that was really the biggest warning sign. And the analogy that I told you about, about creating my own prison, I would use that over and over

Anya Smith:
Hmm.

nausheen i chen:
and I would really feel it. So those are the things that led me to realizing that the long hours, the stress and the dissatisfaction were all this explosive mix. And I was just heading towards a really dark place and I needed to

Anya Smith:
Mm.

nausheen i chen:
steer myself away from it.

Anya Smith:
I appreciate you sharing that. And that's not easy, right, to go through that journey. And I think it's okay to have moments when we do feel bad for ourselves, right? But to your point, right, when you catch that being a regular thing and you say like, well, what am I doing about it? That is very powerful, right? I don't think that if you're having hard times of where all we should think, oh, everything's good, right? That overwhelming positivity also doesn't help, but there is that balance, which I think you described very beautifully. And also, I love how you described the differences between introversion and extroversion and that we communicate differently. And that's okay, because transparently, I always felt like I had to change that. I talk to think, and I was like, well, maybe that's hard for other people to follow. I'm

nausheen i chen:
Depends

Anya Smith:
like,

nausheen i chen:
on the

Anya Smith:
Anya,

nausheen i chen:
person.

Anya Smith:
why is, right, we get along great. But I appreciate you pointing out because we can honor who we are in our communication style. except like that's who we are and that's how our brain processes. It's not a wrong, it's not a better, or it's just knowing ourselves better and like knowing our warning signs and how we communicate to ourselves that could be like, Oh, maybe I need to pivot and do something better for myself. And again, I love the transformation now you had on LinkedIn and I saw amazing people just shine the light on how it's great to work with you. I saw Jay's comment just looking at your LinkedIn, he was like, Oh my gosh, I was working with Noshain and it's like, she was there. She was like the best friend that picks up on things even virtually. But what was that path of like finding confidence on LinkedIn and getting amazing people to like see this work and get excited about your work? Like, can you share a little bit about the behind the scenes of building that empire, that LinkedIn empire?

nausheen i chen:
I wish it was an empire. I think it's a tiny little molehill right now, but I'm very proud of the molehill. So

Anya Smith:
I'm sorry.

nausheen i chen:
I started like all of us, well, not all of us, but quite a few of us, especially ones that are as old as me, probably made a LinkedIn profile ages ago and forgot about it. So I probably made my profile back in 2007, 2008,

Anya Smith:
Mm-hmm.

nausheen i chen:
when I first got my job. And then since then I must have posted maybe three times in 15 years. So it was a revival. And that's one of the reasons why I focused on LinkedIn, because over the years you just end up picking up people on these profiles. So I just somehow managed to have got gotten maybe about 2000 or so people who were already following me by that time, they were all dormant or a lot of them were dormant. I didn't know that at the time. But it was encouraging to me that, OK, I'm not starting from scratch. But actually,

Anya Smith:
Right.

nausheen i chen:
I was.

Anya Smith:
Yeah.

nausheen i chen:
So I started posting regularly last March. And I am so social media-y inept, social media-wise, that I didn't realize that the way social media algorithms work is that you have to engage on the platform to make the algorithm see your content. So for two months, I was like, OK, I would just post and I didn't realize I had to spend time on the platform. And of course, no one saw my posts. And then very slowly I started reading what people were saying. I took part in a few LinkedIn challenges, got to know some people. And I understood or started understanding what the platform really means and how to really thrive on the platform, which is through engaging and building relationships. I always reach out to people. It's. The one thing that I like doing in unfamiliar spaces, both online and offline. So I just reached out to a whole bunch of people saying, I'm new here, I would love to get your advice or just say hello, I would love to be friends, just no agenda, I'm not selling you anything because I had nothing to

Anya Smith:
Yes.

nausheen i chen:
sell at that time. It was just me saying, I'm a new creator, I'm a new person here, hello. And... A lot of the people, in fact, I would say every single person I reached out to was extremely nice, extremely supportive. We had a whole bunch of coffee chats. People told me about their own experience with the platform, their experience running a business on the platform, how they grew. And I just started learning based on that. One of the earliest things I learned was that you cannot learn about LinkedIn from Google or from random articles that people have written. You can.

Anya Smith:
Mm.

nausheen i chen:
only learn about how LinkedIn works from LinkedIn posts or from LinkedIners. So that's when I started just building my network, building relationships, starting to get to know people. And it coincided with the time where people started responding to public speaking. And one of the big things that happened around that time was I started making videos, which was again, someone suggested it. I was actually coaching someone at the time. And They said, Noshain, we cannot see you speak on your profile. The only thing that's active on your profile is your TEDx talk. And sure, that's fine, but you need to be speaking because you're coaching people to speak. And that was great advice. So I started making videos in September and I started getting noticed by people. By LinkedIn. I was highlighted as in the LinkedIn video spotlight a few times.

Anya Smith:
Woohoo!

nausheen i chen:
Then. The LinkedIn instructors reached out to me, the LinkedIn instructors manager reached out to me, LinkedIn Learning, and they wanted me to create a course on LinkedIn. So it all just snowballed after a while. And LinkedIn, just like any other social media platform, I bet has its ups and downs for everyone. So it's not like you just keep going and the momentum keeps building itself. You have to work harder and harder at each level. So.

Anya Smith:
Hmm.

nausheen i chen:
I experienced that initial burst of growth, which was awesome. Then I reached a plateau. Then I have to work. I had to work much harder. Let's say after around 15 to 20,000 followers at that mark, I had to work really hard to push the next level. Now I'm back at a point where I have to make sure I keep working, keep showing

Anya Smith:
Mm.

nausheen i chen:
up. I'm feeling super guilty today because I've been traveling this week and it's the second day that I missed posting in a row. So things like that have an effect on me my whole day, my whole mood.

Anya Smith:
Oh,

nausheen i chen:
So that's

Anya Smith:
I'm sorry.

nausheen i chen:
been the LinkedIn journey so far.

Anya Smith:
I'm sorry, I've started to guilt, you know, it is challenging that relationship where I wish it was different, like I wish it was just positive, but there are moments where, you know, we get so passionate about something and then like we just have life happen and then you feel like

nausheen i chen:
Yes.

Anya Smith:
you're not doing enough, right? But really you are doing so much, like you have amazing content, you have followers that just adore you. And I think

nausheen i chen:
Hmm.

Anya Smith:
that when we're just authentic, like, hey, I have life. And

nausheen i chen:
I'm

Anya Smith:
we

nausheen i chen:
sorry.

Anya Smith:
shared it, she's like, okay, yeah, she has a life, cool. She's doing other stuff. But I appreciate you sharing that. And one thing you mentioned a little bit earlier was about not having a vision for the first business. And I'm curious, do you have now a vision that inspires you for this business?

nausheen i chen:
Yes, sorry, let me just wipe my sweat because I feel like this is to lose for you. We're like in the middle of this heat wave. It was, I'm

Anya Smith:
Mm.

nausheen i chen:
gonna

Anya Smith:
Ugh.

nausheen i chen:
say this in Celsius, but hopefully you can translate.

Anya Smith:
I'm Russian,

nausheen i chen:
It

Anya Smith:
so

nausheen i chen:
was, there you go. It was

Anya Smith:
yeah.

nausheen i chen:
42 degrees yesterday, Anya.

Anya Smith:
Yeah. Ah.

nausheen i chen:
We're like really in the middle of this heat wave and

Anya Smith:
Oh

nausheen i chen:
it's

Anya Smith:
my gosh.

nausheen i chen:
just, yeah. And my, this room does not have an AC or fan of any kind, but I am

Anya Smith:
Oh,

nausheen i chen:
good.

Anya Smith:
I'm sorry.

nausheen i chen:
Just don't want the. the sweat to show up on too much on camera. If you spot sweat, please let me know at any point.

Anya Smith:
I will tell our editor to be on sweat alert.

nausheen i chen:
The editor will hit me.

Anya Smith:
No, he's amazing. He is such a kind human being. He will be good.

nausheen i chen:
So, sorry, coming back to your question. So, absolutely, I have so many ideas for this business. I have so many ideas for what I wanna do and where I wanna take it. Right now, I'm focusing on one-on-one coaching because that's really where my heart is. I love working with specific people. I love, sorry, I'm gonna say that again. I love working with individuals. I love going... deep and really figuring out what is it that's holding them back? What kind of fears do they have of public speaking? Where their lack of confidence stems from. And then of course we work on making sure that they have a good speaker's toolkit where they understand how to show up with confidence. All of that work happens really well in that one-on-one coaching space. But my vision for the business is of course, to make sure that I can also scale. that I can also reach more people. I can make sure that I'm not just focusing on the select few who can afford my, my one-on-one services or the select few for whom I have time in my schedule. So the vision is that I absolutely want to build a course and then several courses. I'm also working on a book, which is going to be a long-term project, but yeah, I am also, there's so much that I'm doing just for the business. I'm also getting certified by ICF. So by the end of the year, I will be hopefully an official ICF coach. I wanted to make sure that I was building my coaching skills because if you ask me how to show up with confidence on camera or on stage, I can talk about my experience, but I also wanted to make sure that I could coach people

Anya Smith:
Thanks for watching!

nausheen i chen:
using specific coaching techniques. And for that, you need to learn how to coach. It's not the same as... Using the informal world word coaching. There are a lot of techniques that, that work that you can really learn. And then for sure, I really want to build a community, a formal community where people can share their public speaking experiences where they can practice. This is something that I keep hearing over and over, both from clients and others. Now sheen, how do I practice my public speaking skills? Because if you don't practice, you don't get better. But. If you're only practicing once in a while, or if you're only practicing in high stress, high stakes situations, you're not going to get better. The

Anya Smith:
Mm.

nausheen i chen:
idea is to practice in a relaxed way in low stakes environments where you can learn, where you can feel safe. So a whole bunch of plans I have writing on my walls, literally where I keep putting up these, you know, those whiteboard sheets that you can stick on the wall. They're like magic.

Anya Smith:
Yeah,

nausheen i chen:
I discovered

Anya Smith:
yes.

nausheen i chen:
them this year. I did not know they existed. And very soon my office is gonna look like a mad woman's chamber with like me,

Anya Smith:
You're

nausheen i chen:
just

Anya Smith:
a detective.

nausheen i chen:
you'll just see scribbles. So I literally have like a wall and a half filled with scribbles and plans. So it really does make me buzz and it does give me a lot of ideas on where I can take this work.

Anya Smith:
Clearly there's passion there and clearly there's a vision that's keeping you alive. I can tell what a difference that is, even when you're describing those two areas.

nausheen i chen:
Thank you. I feel it.

Anya Smith:
That's awesome. And I've read your tips like the other day, you were mentioning when you anticipate something, instead of saying you're nervous, reframe it as being excited. And so for this, I was like, I'm excited. I'm excited for this. It's so powerful, right? Like even the little things that I know, I'm not working with you, but the little things you share are so practical that anybody can integrate. So I'm excited for the vision of there being more scalable resources and community. And we get to learn from that because... even though I'm pretty extroverted, it does get me uncomfortable to be doing things that are maybe on stage. I enjoy it, but at the same time, I know I'm not great at it. I want to improve. And for example, just doing this podcast, my mom told me when I was little, she's a Russian mom and I mentioned this a couple of times, and she doesn't like mince words. And I was singing,

nausheen i chen:
Sure.

Anya Smith:
you know, doing the performing, I wrote a song, I was excited about it. Not that I'm that talented or anything, but she said, Anya, your voice is the kind that goes better with music. And I took that. At that point in time, I was like, oh, I should, like my voice is like not that great. And now I'm podcasting. And so I have to listen to my voice over and over and over again. And that's been really great because it challenged me to just do things that scare me. and to listen to myself and get better, slow down, listen to the amount of likes I say, like what I can be

nausheen i chen:
Yep.

Anya Smith:
doing better. But those things that maybe even scare you that much, once you keep doing it, and I'm seeing it over and over in my story, it does get easier. And you do feel very grateful for that leap you took when you started. So I appreciate you sharing tips along the way to help people like me.

nausheen i chen:
Thank you. I love that. And I, I definitely identify with things sticking in your brain about how people perceive you, especially people that are close to you. And it's one of those things that you carry with you. And it could contribute to how comfortable you feel when you're speaking. Maybe there is a little voice at the back of your head, the voice of your mom saying that Anya, you're not going to sound that great. You know, I'm just, I'm saying this for your own benefit. Stick to singing. It's a lot, we carry a lot with us, especially when it comes to performing in public or any kind of stressful situation that we go through. So it's great that you're targeting that.

Anya Smith:
You know, if you don't mind me adding to that, one thing that I remind me is the culture element. So again, I mentioned that I'm from a Russian background. And there, if you go, and I do believe Russian people are very warmhearted, but we have a tough exterior and that's why we're always the bad guys in movies. But there's kind of a culture, like you don't necessarily embrace being super warm and fuzzy people that you don't know. There's a little bit more of that reserved element. And I don't necessarily have that, but I'm mindful of that culture and kind of the things that maybe are holding me back because of those things that weren't great with me as I was growing up. I'm curious with your very rich cultural background, has that affected your presentational styles or any kind of limitations that you have to kind of overcome or has it influenced just your vision for public speaking?

nausheen i chen:
My culture is something that I created for myself in kind of an intentional way. And I don't talk about this too much because it's not something that a lot of people understand or agree with because a lot of people think your culture is where you come from. And

Anya Smith:
Mm.

nausheen i chen:
I completely disagree because I don't think I come from a specific place or a specific culture. Yes, I happen to be born in a specific place, but that doesn't mean that I am homogenous, that I have one specific culture that I should retain. So something that I did along the way was that I built my influences and I figured out what values I stand for. So now... If you see me as multicultural, that is something that I very intentionally developed and that's exactly how I think of public speaking as well. When you're speaking on different stages, different platforms, different podcasts, you need to be slightly different. You need to understand

Anya Smith:
Hmm.

nausheen i chen:
how to match the audience's energy, how to raise their energy, how to make sure that you're using the right kind of language for different environments, how to make sure that you're being memorable and being relevant. Don't talk about bananas at, at a convention for meat eaters, right? They're not necessarily going to appreciate it.

Anya Smith:
Right.

nausheen i chen:
So that level of flexibility and adaptability that has really helped me. And I've just found that change has been a constant in my life. A lot of change that was beyond my control. but a lot of change that I orchestrated myself.

Anya Smith:
I appreciate that. That's so beautiful and inspiring. And I love that you share that. I think that's empowering to sense that no matter what your background is, not to say we can't honor it and appreciate it and reflect and bring it with us, but also we have that agency to say, what culture do I wanna build? And it gives you the power to say, I can build that for a variety of resources, for a variety of cultures that maybe aren't where I was born, but that resonate with me. And I can adapt that also for where it makes sense. because I'm not stagnant. Where people say, oh, what do you wanna be when you grow up? As if we grow up and that's it, like I'm done.

nausheen i chen:
Yeah.

Anya Smith:
I'm done learning, I'm who I am right now, that's it. But this gives this beautiful sense of flow and real life where the only thing that's constant is change. And if we create a more flexible foundation for it, it makes it much more easy to embrace change and be powerful doing it.

nausheen i chen:
Change is not something to be scared of. And perhaps it's easy to say for someone who's gone through a lot of change, and I literally had my world turned upside down multiple times in my life, but I could have gone another way. I could have been a victim of that change. I could have just let it rule my life. But really, when you... realize that change is inevitable. That kind of change that's beyond your control is inevitable. And you also control the parts of your life that you can change. So then change becomes very, very powerful.

Anya Smith:
Do you mind me mentioning here, I don't know if one of these pivotal changes about Imagines is I was asking you a little bit earlier if you can edit this out if you don't want to talk about it, but you always intentionally put in your middle initial. And I've noticed for me, I put it in honestly for LinkedIn so that I can know people who just don't care and just auto send me

nausheen i chen:
I'm

Anya Smith:
stuff

nausheen i chen:
sorry.

Anya Smith:
because I know that my initial shows up that means that they're just auto sending stuff. But you intentionally put it everywhere. And I was like, well. What's the meaning of that? Do you mind sharing that story and like maybe, you know, why maybe if that was also one of those pivotal moments that you changed, kind of changed your cultural perspective and your work, infected your work. So I'll rephrase that a little better.

nausheen i chen:
Yeah.

Anya Smith:
If you don't mind sharing that story, I wonder if that was like one of those big impacts and how has that maybe been something that impacts your work now, if in any way.

nausheen i chen:
So actually changing my last name was the important cultural integration for me. So the middle initial is my father's name and I retain it because he passed away when I was 10. That was probably that first moment of big change in my life. And I just want to carry it with me. I want to carry a little bit of him with me in my name. But my last name Chen is what I'm really proud of because it's the family that I'm married into and I am not Chinese by blood, but I do feel very Chinese by culture because that is part of the culture of my husband and his family. My husband is also multicultural. So there's also French coming in and I sadly don't have any French in my name, but I speak it and I am French and I live in France, so there's French coming in other ways. So that's where the story of the name comes from.

Anya Smith:
That's amazing. Thank you for sharing that. I love just how rich your life seems. I'm sure like

nausheen i chen:
Aww.

Anya Smith:
your parties and your stories and just like the background is amazing. If I could have a superpower, I mentioned, it would be to speak all languages

nausheen i chen:
Mmm.

Anya Smith:
because I think that with full language, you get to understand the like really small inflection points of the culture that it's hard to get otherwise, right? Like you need little humor points, like little things. And I think that that's such a richness to life. Like where... We focus on like our culture and kind of maybe thinking like we're the best or whatnot, but if you open yourself up to like the different culture, your life becomes richer. So I love that you really embrace that in so many ways, you name your experiences, your outlook professionally. And I will dive into your professional work. So let's go there finally

nausheen i chen:
Mm-hmm.

Anya Smith:
for some

nausheen i chen:
Ha

Anya Smith:
people. Um,

nausheen i chen:
ha.

Anya Smith:
but you've, you've mentored a lot of amazing individuals and you have clearly a passion for it. And I'm curious, are you seeing common struggles that people are facing? in this area and like any kind of tips for those high level struggles that you want to share.

nausheen i chen:
Absolutely. One of the things that I constantly see is that people feel that they can't be themselves when they're under the spotlight, when they're under stress, they forget how to say the right words at the right time. They forget how to be articulate. They forget how to have the right kind of expressions or the right kind of body language. And that is all because they feel that this is something that is alien to them. They don't think of speaking in public as a skill that they practice on a daily basis, even though they actually do. So people come to me with typically talking about the lack of confidence that they feel when they step on that stage or when they turn on their camera in a Zoom call and start presenting, their hearts start beating faster, mumbling or they start looking for words, they start rambling, they start using too many ums and uhs and likes. They feel uncomfortable, so uncomfortable that they just want it to be over. So that is really the core of the work that we do, making sure that people feel comfortable at ease, relaxed and themselves when they're speaking on camera. or speaking on stage.

Anya Smith:
And I'm curious, and you don't have to name names, but if you could share stories, like have you seen like the impact your work has had on somebody, not just maybe professionally being great at public speaking or going on stage and killing that talk, but are you seeing like a way that this work with you has also changed them in a personal life? If you have any stories you just wanna share at a high level.

nausheen i chen:
Yeah, sure. And I actually can take his name because he's a wonderful client and he's very public about the work that we do together. And he's written me some amazing testimonials. So one of the clients I worked with is Wes. And he is a coach who is launching his coaching work and his entrepreneurial venture. And the one thing that was holding him back was his intense fear of speaking in public. so much so that he would shy away from breakout rooms and Zoom calls. He wouldn't be able to find the right words to say at the right time. He was always at a loss for these words and he felt terrible about himself afterwards, thinking like, I know what to say. Why can I not say it in the moment? What happens? So we started working together and... We worked on improvisational techniques. When one of my past lives, I was also a trained improv performer and coach. So I incorporated a lot of that into our work where we got him to just get out of his head, stop overthinking and rethinking and doubting yourself every time you open your mouth, every time you articulate an idea, also be concise. One of the issues that he had was that he would ramble and a lot of people who are nervous do this where they keep rambling in an effort to hide their nervousness, but it doesn't go away. If you're rambling, what you want to do is be concise, make your point. And then move on. So during our work together, I saw was just transformed from someone who was scared of talking to strangers, even on a Zoom call to someone who's now creating his own videos, he is seeking out coffee chats and networking chats. He is going to be on podcasts and live events. He wants to do webinars and he's excited about it. He's not feeling that dread and that fear weighing him down. He feels like he can absolutely handle it because He's now able to articulate his thoughts in a way that makes sense and make impact.

Anya Smith:
Wow, that's amazing job, Wes. I'm really excited for you. And I'm sure that doesn't just go from like professional confidence, but in the day to day, I'm sure that really enriches your life too. Being able to communicate with people outside business, just neighbors, strangers, feel comfortable saying what you have to say. I know that for me, like I was shying away from asking for help from other people or even sometimes disagreeing. And funnily enough, doing this podcast has helped me find my own voice. Just speaking

nausheen i chen:
Mm.

Anya Smith:
more and learning how to sound more confident. And in a weird way, I didn't necessarily anticipate it. That confidence in my voice and be able to express myself carries over day to day life, where it's standing up your ground and supporting your own ability to frame a point. and disagree in an okay way, right? So all of that is funny how it just thinks overlap and have an empowering effect, ripple effect throughout your life.

nausheen i chen:
This is so true. That's why public speaking or improving your public speaking skills doesn't just stop at that stage or that zoom call or that podcast, it's about enhancing your speaking skills. And we speak all the time, every day. So you're absolutely right. That confidence that you find, that confidence that you build intentionally by creating good. speaking habits and creating what I like calling this positive feedback loop, where you make sure that you're debriefing with yourself after every time that you go on stage or do a presentation or do a podcast and build that awareness of what you did well and what you can improve on so that you can take what you did well and use it as proof for next time when you have to do the next podcast, creating that feedback loop builds. your confidence in an intentional way. The moment you realize that you can control your own levels of confidence, that's when you start feeling that you could control your own fate. You can control how your life goes in different directions. Because when you're confident, you feel like you can do anything, anything that you set your mind to.

Anya Smith:
I love that loop idea because I've noticed sometimes when I look at something and it's not good, it can feel very daunting, like what in the world am I doing with my life?

nausheen i chen:
Yeah.

Anya Smith:
But if you reframe it to like, it's just feedback and I can improve on it, then it gets you through those points, be like, yes, maybe this could be a little bit better, but it's not gonna stop me, right? Like there's so much power in not letting the small things or even if they seem, you know, bigger at that moment, stop you, because you can just keep learning. and most of the time your biggest critic is you.

nausheen i chen:
Absolutely. When I ask people, we have in with my work with my clients, we have a very specific feedback process where I asked them, how did it go before sharing my own thoughts and nine times out of 10, they'll start telling me that didn't go well. This didn't go well. I didn't do this right. This was terrible. I felt this way. And I stopped them and I say, first, you got to tell me what you did well. And that's not just because I want to make you feel better. That's

Anya Smith:
Right.

nausheen i chen:
not the idea. The idea is if you're aware of your strong points, you can work on them intentionally and get yourself from above average to exceptional. And a lot of people don't do that. They get stuck at average or hovering above at above average. But to be really intentional about building your skillset means not just the opportunity areas, but also looking at what you're doing well. So absolutely being more kind to yourself is not just a fluffy concept. It's it actually serves you well in improving your performance.

Anya Smith:
that gives us all hope. And the last thing I want to ask before I get to let you go for dinner was you mentioned, and recently, I think you posted about this too, maybe I just found it in the Instagram, like bringing your energy to the stage. Oftentimes, you mentioned that people start their presentation and they forget to bring their energy over there. And one thing that I struggled with is, can I just be me? Can I bring all of this energy? on the stage or doing to be like more professional and I need to put a certain kind of makeup, like this whole fear about can I really just show up fully and will the audience resonate with that? Like, do you have any advice on that with your experience? Does the audience really care? Can you really show up being you and build that relationship with them and get them to be excited about you? No matter, you know, if you look a certain way, if you have like a more introverted style, like this. Can anybody go on stage and connect with an audience by being truly them?

nausheen i chen:
I believe that there are many different versions of you. I don't think there is one Anya, because you are absolutely different when you talk to your partner, to your friends, to your clients, to people that you've just met on a podcast like me. So we all have different sides of our personalities. For stage, what's key is that you need to bring a little more of you. It's like the best parts of your personality on steroids, because if you can bring that energy, if you can bring a little more expressiveness, if you can bring a little more of your personality, and it should be yours, absolutely, you don't need to pretend to be anyone else, but be more of you, be a louder version of you, be a more expressive version of you. If you can bring that to the stage, then you're bringing the stage to life, and people will notice you. This is absolutely challenging for introverts. I cannot say that it's as straightforward and easy for introverts as it might be for extroverts, which is not to say that all extroverts are good speakers. Absolutely not. They have to work on it. But they can derive a certain degree of energy from being around people. They can play off of people's energy. And seeing the audience's response Makes them feel better, feel more of that energy. For introverts, the opposite is true. Unfortunately,

Anya Smith:
Mm.

nausheen i chen:
they feel overwhelmed by being around too many people. It depletes their energy. So

Anya Smith:
Mm.

nausheen i chen:
if you're an introvert, you can absolutely be a great speaker. You just have to work a little harder and you have to know where to put in the work. For example, if you're not expressive in your regular life, Yes, you should learn to be more expressive. And there are a few things, a few techniques that you can learn that work really well, figuring out how to work with your voice, exploring your vocal range, varying your pitch, varying

Anya Smith:
Hmm.

nausheen i chen:
the pauses, adding in some more body language. If you are not a loud person in real life, learning how to enunciate more. learning how to open your mouth a little bit more when you speak, you can do all of those things. And a lot of introverts also find it a useful technique to create their on-stage persona, the Sasha Fierce of their own personality. So

Anya Smith:
Love it.

nausheen i chen:
that is, that is absolutely a technique as well. Again, you're not faking it. You're just creating a part of your personality that is relevant. for a specific environment. And a lot of really accomplished introvert performers, actors, comedians, talk show hosts do this really well, where they put on a specific persona when they're on camera. And then in their real life, they go back to being an introvert.

Anya Smith:
Yeah.

nausheen i chen:
So it is absolutely possible to be the best version of yourself on stage. That's what I always encourage people to think of it as.

Anya Smith:
Beautiful. Thank you. This is a great advice and gives us hope wherever we're at in our speaking journey. I know I have a lot to improve on there too. And Nasheen, you've been so generous of your time. I just want to wrap up and ask, you know, for people who listen to something, oh my gosh, I want to work with you. Of course, I'm going to put the links in the description, but how should people reach out to you and connect with you?

nausheen i chen:
Absolutely. So you can find me on LinkedIn. I'm Narsheen I Chen on LinkedIn. And by the time this podcast goes live, I believe my website should be live as well. So

Anya Smith:
Woo!

nausheen i chen:
you can look me up on speaking.coach and you should be able to find me.

Anya Smith:
I'm excited. I'm gonna check it out as soon as it comes out and I'll definitely link that in here, too So check out

nausheen i chen:
Thank

Anya Smith:
all

nausheen i chen:
you.

Anya Smith:
these resources also you post regularly again I mentioned some of the tips that I found and there are a ton more so follow Noshain for a great advice work of her if you have big events or just feel like this is an area you want to improve I know that she has clear passion is constantly trying to learn to become better and you will definitely get some great takeaways and results working of her and I mean I know I'll let you off. I just have three short bit questions and then we'll have you at your dinner. Does that sound good?

nausheen i chen:
Yeah, let's go for it.

Anya Smith:
Okay, it can be as concise as you want, but first one, very relevant for right now. If you could host a dinner party with three people, who would it be? And what's on the menu?

nausheen i chen:
Well, it's got to have my dad because I lost him at a very young age and I've always wondered what it would be like to have a father. I now have a father figure in my life, my father-in-law, so I'm very grateful for him and I call him dad. But definitely my father who wasn't there to raise me, I would love to invite him. The second person would absolutely be Taylor Swift. I just love Taylor Swift. I think that she is. A brilliant business person. She is a visionary. She is a creative genius. She's understood how to channel parts of her personality and create an entire following and that's powerful. And the third person, that's where I get stumped, but most likely it will be my mom who's also passed away. So I've unfortunately lost both parents. And. I think it would just be lovely for my mom and dad to meet again. And then I could just talk to Taylor Swift on the side. So I think it'll all work out.

Anya Smith:
That sounds amazing. Ugh, I was on the menu.

nausheen i chen:
Pakistani food.

Anya Smith:
Okay.

nausheen i chen:
One of the few things I like about Pakistan is the food. I think that the food is amazing.

Anya Smith:
I would join that partying time, but

nausheen i chen:
Yeah.

Anya Smith:
it sounds like you would be having an amazing time, so I wouldn't want to impose on that. Okay, second question is, how do you handle self-doubt or moments of uncertainty?

nausheen i chen:
Sometimes not well and other times with a lot of self-talk and motivation. I'm the kind of person who always reaches out. I'm not very good at introspecting. I'm not very good at going into my own space and thinking things through. I love talking things out with someone I trust. So when I have a lot of doubt, I typically reach out to my partner. a friend, and now LinkedIn buddies. I talk to a whole bunch of my LinkedIn friends all the time talking to them about what am I doing wrong? What should I be doing better? Oh, I, I'm stuck. I have a mental block. What should I post about? So definitely reaching out has been a strategy in my life.

Anya Smith:
Beautiful, I love that, thank you. And last but not least, in the positive context, going off track is.

nausheen i chen:
Mmm. Exploring and having an adventure.

Anya Smith:
Beautiful. Well, Ashin, this was a blast. I knew it would be, and to all of our audience, share with us what stood out to you, what questions do you have, how are you doing in your public speaking adventure? And thank you again for joining us right off track, and we look forward to having you on your next adventure with us. Take care.

nausheen i chen:
Awesome,

Anya Smith:
Thank

nausheen i chen:
thank

Anya Smith:
you

nausheen i chen:
you

Anya Smith:
so much,

nausheen i chen:
so

Anya Smith:
Ashin.

nausheen i chen:
much, Ania.

Anya Smith:
My pleasure.