How MINDFUL Advantage Brings GAINS to Work CULTURE and BOTTOM LINE - Scott Shute is RightOffTrack | Anya Smith

how can I do a little bit better
inside the workplace and outside the workplace
yeah we have this
what we call a negativity bias
our brains have these two little almond shaped clusters
called the amygdala
it's the fear center of our brains
and these amygdala are hyperactive
and they're always
scanning our lives for what could go wrong
what might kill us you know
when your boys are making too much noise or they
people are doing something on the street
or the traffic is not the way you want
or the news is not the way you want it
we're triggered
in the same way as if someone was going to kill us
right our nervous systems are triggered
that's not super helpful
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hey friends
Anya Smith Today
we're getting to something really special
imagine blending mindfulness and compassion
into our daily work lives
it's not just a nice idea
it's happening
and it's changing how we think about success
and fulfillment
here to walk us through this
exciting blend of ancient wisdom and modern business
Scott shoot
concepts into a reality in the workplace
Scott excited to have you here
thanks for having me
I'm glad to be here
and my pleasure in Scott
you and I met a little bit ago
I don't know if you remember me
but I was introduced to you through the Inner NBA
program a while ago for people who wanted to expand
not just their business prowess
but also the kind of
the purpose that they're leading behind it
so thank you for sharing your path around there
and then at that point
you were at LinkedIn
and I had no idea there was even like a mindfulness
leadership element here
so can you share a little bit about
even the backstory to getting to a point where um
not only were you interested in mindfulness
but you made it
something you'd actually do for a living
sure well thanks for having me again
I'm so I was at LinkedIn
and I was the
I'd had this career as a customer service person
I was the VP of global customer operations
and that was you know
my dream job
and there is this other part of me like a
like a dual agent I'd have
I've had a meditation
or spiritual practice since I was 13
I've been teaching since I was in college
and I never talked about that at work
but it LinkedIn
I found it such an open environment
our CEO was talking about
using headspace in his own practice
he was talking about compassion in the world
and I thought
maybe this is a place where I could bring some of that
you know passion of mine into play at work
and so in a secular way
I started leading meditation sessions at work
and over time
it kind of snowballed into
I was the executive sponsor of our mindfulness program
we didn't really have one
so I created one with a whole bunch of other volunteers
and then for me
the turning point was
our CEO gave the commencement address at Wharton
very serious Wharton
and talked about compassion you know
the most important thing you can do in your life
and to be successful at work is to be compassionate
at warden right
it's pretty good
next day he's on Good Morning America
and this is all
they wanna talk about
his compassion in the workplace
so I ended up making a pitch to him like hey
you just told all our employees that compassion
was the most important thing that they could do
we're not really doing anything about it
and so I pitch this role
I'm the ops guy
I'll help operationalize compassion
and will also mainstream mindfulness while we're at it
so we with the great support of him
and our head of HR
we created this role
head of mindfulness and compassion programs
and my mission
even today is to change work from the inside out
so that's how we get started
wow wow it's got
you mentioned that
this was something that you were called to do
from an early age
and I know that had a little bit
longer story that you shared about just being in a town
that really didn't resonate with that idea
and you created
that community around you
how have you seen
that you know
passion of you
influence your you know
your professional life right
because you are focusing on workplace
um because a lot of times
you think oh
yoga is nice
you should do it
you should do mindfulness
but what's the real impact that is had in your life
sure for me
my practice and this
what I would say
is the pursuit of
self awareness
or awareness generally
has been profound
it is affected
everything about me
and I think we're all on this journey
you could say
from animal to spiritual like right
everything we do
our first response
our first reaction to life is very much
an animal response
that homosapien part of us
whether we get
angry at somebody
cutting off
cutting us off in traffic
or the type of foods that we choose to eat
or just anything that we do
it's almost always
you know a base level
animal reaction
and as we build awareness
as we move from
kind of this
animal based into spiritual
we can respond to life
like we can have a little bit more space
between the things that happened to us
and how we respond
and that has been
profound for me
as a person
and in my own happiness and joy
I think it's also been
an important part of my leadership
development
and how I developed
as a people leader over time
so it's fundamental for me
for everything that we do
oh I I love that
and I love that is becoming more mainstream
like you mentioned
right so we're talking about it
like leaders
and CEOs bringing
mindfulness and
um that topic
to the news
like publicly sharing it
what do you think has shifted
where we're seeing more of that trend
and even again
companies talking about
and prioritizing
that effort
sure you know
I think it it kind of comes with
goes with individuals
and the people in charge
but ultimately
it's about consciousness
and over time
we're generally
raising in consciousness I believe
and one of the things that happened to us
kind of collectively is covid
the pandemic
right for a year
or two or three years
we were separated
from each other
we had uh lots of
um anxiety and loneliness
and just uncertainty about life
and it was a collective experience
and because of that
and because of the
what was going on in work
companies realize
pretty quickly
that if we don't take care of our employees
then that is really a problem for us
as a company
because employees are by far
a company's biggest
you know resource
or asset and also
they realize
it cause they
the leaders
were going through exactly the same thing at home
right with their own cells
with their own families
their own friends
they saw it most directly
and so companies are much more receptive
now than they were
even three or five years ago
to this idea of
building our mental
wellness right
or our spectrum
of taking care of ourselves
and of course
it comes and goes
or it's you know
it's spotty with different leaders
some people are still kind of old school
but there's a lot of leaders
who are embracing
this new way of doing things
and really embracing the idea
yeah that if we
invest in our employees
if we invest
in their happiness
if we invest in their care
good things are gonna happen for them
which means
good things are gonna happen for the company
absolutely and you talked a little bit
earlier about that
we're trying to get from the animal brain
to a more mindful brain
I think about that a lot
even just lately
how sometimes we
start the day
or we get ready for the day ahead
and like ah
tomorrow's gonna suck
you're already like
you know you're not even the animal
but you're as if you're just succumbing
to the will of the universe and you're just like
oh it's gonna be so bad
and you are defeating into that energy of dread
and I realized like we have impact in that
and the mindfulness is creating space for reflection
and then saying well
how do I wanna show up
yeah even in the moments where we catch ourselves like
hey you know
I am a mom three boys
and sometimes I don't show up perfectly
or my initial actions like ah
but cultivating that pause and space and breath
not only makes me feel better as just apparently hey
I'm doing my best
but I was like okay
how do I want to show up in this moment
so it creates the sense of agency
that sometimes we are too busy to realize
that we're just giving like
oh it's just gonna suck
but we have a decision like
how do we want to show up
and then the moments where things are happening
we don't just have to be reactive
we can create a space for like
well even if it's not perfect
but how do I wanna show up
how can I do a little bit better
and I think that is very powerful for me
inside the workplace and outside the workplace
yeah we have this
what we call a negativity bias
and we evolved this way right we
we evolved from the apes that were nervous and anxious
and always looked at the bad things
cause those were the apes that stayed alive right
the chilled out waves that thought everything was cool
they got eaten
and so everything
everything we do just like
you know our
our brains have these two little almond shaped clusters
called the amygdala
it's the fierce scent of our brains
and these amygdala are hyperactive
and they're always
scanning our lives for what could go wrong
what might kill us
you know they're trying to protect us
and that was great when we were on the Savannah
trying to stay alive
it's less great in our modern day world
because almost everything triggers those amigdala
you know when your boys are making too much noise
or they people are doing something on the street
or the traffic is not the way you want
or the news is not the way you want it
we're triggered
in the same way as if someone was going to kill us
right our nervous systems are triggered
that's not super helpful
and so first of all
just realizing it like oh
this is an animal reaction I
I don't really wanna be an animal
cause then my happiness is just
comes and goes with the wind
it comes and goes with
whatever is going on in the world
and if I wanna create something
I'll draw a stink distinction between happiness and joy
if we wanna cultivate real joy
that's something that happens from the inside out
that's something that is built with an inner practice
that builds this muscle of pausing
it builds this muscle of
just letting it sit for a second
and to see everything first
and then to respond
and then we can have real joy
and joy happens from the inside out
absolutely yeah
and I like the distinction because we think like well
I need to be happy
I need to be happy
and it's like
oh if I'm not happy in this moment
then I'm failing
but happiness can be a fleeting sense
and it could be somewhat artificially stimulated right
where I think of contentment and peace as like you know
I maybe I'm not like the extremes of higher lows
but I'm just feeling like positive you know
just like hopeful
and speaking of hope
like I was working at meta before all of this unraveled
and on paper
as I know a lot of people talk about
everything look good
you know here you are at that top company
you have a role
you have an income
and I have a beautiful family
everything to be grateful for
but I felt so stressed all the time
like there's always something more to chase
always something more to do
and it was never enough
and I was like
what you know
and then can't wait to retire in 20 more years you know
so keep saving
and I just had this reason
there has to be another way
there just has to be another way to live
like this cannot be the way we're meant to live
and that's how it came to mindfulness
and I was so imperfect about it
but just sense like
there has to be another way
motivate me to find like okay
how can I take little practices and adapt them
even if they're not perfect
that still is better than like
going the other way
and like trying to do just things
the push through it way
that's right
we realize some of us realize
that the mountain we've been climbing
is not the right mountain
you know we're climbing this mountain of success
and all these things that we think
are going to make us happy right
if you ask anybody why they do anything
it's it's always
cause they just wanna be happy right
we asked the 5 wise
you know why did you buy that new car
well cause I wanted it well
but why did you want it
well I don't know
cause I wanted to impress my neighbors
why did you wanna impress your neighbors
cause I wanted them
to like me why do you want them to like me
cause I just wanna be happy
or you know
anything like that
but as you said
you know everything like that is fleeting
you know if
if I get promoted
maybe I'm happy
if I get fired
maybe I'm unhappy
but there's this other part
which is the joy from the inside out
which is lasting right
and so there's
there's lots of techniques
that we can use along the way
but one of the things I like
is this question
when we start spiraling
when we get ourselves in the zone
where we're anxious or we're
we fixated on something
I asked the question
what else is true
it's just a simple redirection
in other words
what else is good yeah
I can fixate on that one thing that's wrong in my life
and that's true
like it it might be not the way I want it
but it's also not the whole story
you know this happens with our relationships
I could be really upset with my spouse or my kid
about that one thing they're doing
that just makes me crazy yes yes
but if we ask ourselves
what else is true
what else is good
and we remember the 99 other reasons we love them
then we can really respond in a more meaningful way
and it's not to say we ignore all the
quote bad things
it's just that we don't need to give
it 100% of our attention
because remember
that Amigdal is finally
tuned to only look at the negative
it's up to us
to balance the scales
to see the whole story
absolutely yeah
it reminds me a lot of times
where sometimes
in the thick of the moment things
things seem a lot darker
right so say
if you're in a fight of your spouse or again
your child is
you know upsetting
not listening
in that moment
it's hard to say that they're a good
beautiful person
and what not
so take some of that
some of that practice like
hey right now
I'm not seeing things
objectively
right right now
my emotions are very heightened
and it's very much fight and fight
fight and fight
so I need to distance myself
or calm myself down
and also be conscious
like how much energy I'm draining myself
if I'm just gonna like
focus in on how bad there
I'm wasting so much energy
and I know I'm also not seeing this objectively
so maybe if I
pause and we
we center myself
I will have more
compassion for whatever
conversations
meant to happen
and I know it's very difficult
but it is so worth it
because a lot of times
we're just putting so much energy in the peak of like
the center of the chaos
and we're feeding it
versus realizing
that's not a place that's serving us or our
relationships
that's right
you mentioned
something really important
which is it's not easy
it often really is not easy
yeah but it is always worth it
it's usually simple
but it's not easy
absolutely okay
I wanna pivot a little bit
because I want to go into this
really single
so this beautiful book
was written by Scott
called The Full Body
yes and it has an awesome
rhino in it
uh red stars
if you're not on YouTube
watching this
just describing it to you
so why the heck did you write a book
what is all this
well in that moment
I was the head of mindfulness and
compassion programs
that LinkedIn
and people are asking me like
what does that even mean
like what does it mean to be compassionate work
and finally
enough I had
that was the context
and then I'd always wanted to write a book
I knew I was gonna write a book since I was 15
since I was a freshman in high school
and it was just never there
and I was coming home from an event with a friend
he was driving
I was in the passenger seat
and he gets this funny look
and he says
the universe
has told me to tell you
it's time to write your book
ha ha ha and we both just started laughing
and I kind of checked inwardly
it's like oh yeah
that feels right
and so part of the reason was
I was compelled
you know part of reason was
I always knew I would
and part was to
kind of explain what we're up to
to explain why it's important to have
this idea of mindfulness
and compassion
in the workplace for us
but also for the work that we do
beautiful okay
and so now you had this inspiration
yeah how did you go about it
like what were some key things
you want people to get away from
this book sure
well it's kind of a four
step process
when I think about compassion
we you know
we wanna have
compassion for another person
well I've developed a
a definition
of compassion
there's lots of good ones
I like this one
so it's three parts
compassion is first
an awareness of others
second is a mindset
towards wishing the best for them
or mindset of kindness
towards them
and the third is
the courage to take action
and so I thought
alright well
let's do it
let's let's go to compassion
but what I really
came to understand is that
our own development
our own ability
to do those same three things
for ourselves
comes first
and so it's first
do am I aware of myself
I'm really aware of myself in a in a
in an open and transparent way
not just uh
not just the veneer
but deeply aware
the second part is
do I have a mindset of kindness
towards myself
do do I love myself
do I have self
compassion and then
the third is
do I have courage to take action
meaning now that I know these things
do I have the courage to do the hard things
for my own growth
right and when I can do those three things
and do them well
then I have a chance
at the fourth one
which is really
compassion for other people
hmm absolutely
so powerful
like not a joke at all
hundred percent
just this has been something I have
been struggling with
probably my whole life
but recently
I've become a lot more clear
like why I'm struggling
with this area
and that's my own energy work
practice um
but something I realized
is that I'm really
driven like
by seeking validation from other people
and that's a program
that's really
not serving me
but what it made me
confront is that
the reason I have that is
I haven't connected with
like myself
inner self love
and like connection to something higher
and having that yeah
trust that something
loves me but
where was showing up
and things like I had
I didn't realise
it's gonna have
a correlation
is this constant sense
I need to achieve something yeah
constant sense
sense of restlessness
and I was like
how do I get rid of it
it's really not serving me
but here I am
thinking about 7 million things
I need to do right now
instead of enjoying the moment
so whenever he's
like you know
be in the moment
breathe again
I was like how the heck
do you do that
but I realized that
the reason I had this
because I said
because I subconsciously
thought that
I need to accomplish
everything to be worthy
and I wasn't feel
feeling myself because I thought that well
what if I say no to something
what if I you know
do some don't do something for my kids first
and I was just realizing that was like this programming
that I need to get over on my path of loving myself
and also overcoming sense like selfish that oh
putting yourself
you're selfish mom
you're selfish human being
you're not thinking about others
but it's actually such an unhealthy
relationship to have the selfish view of it
where really us empowering ourselves
us having the steep love for ourselves
we show up way better in the world
that's right
way healthier
way more resilient
so that's just been my rare reason
like really deep reflection like
what's really driving this insane sense of doing more
more more and why I'm doing things
and why it's not fulfilling me yeah
all from the root
as you correctly pointed out
of not feeling it in from the inside out
so in my own experience
um I just really amazing experience in 2015
so a little bit of context
so I'm the youngest of five
and my spent my childhood
you know trying to get my dad's attention
always looking for that external approval from him
you know started in the family dynamic
and carried out through history
but in 2015
my father had passed away
and in this moment of time
I had a big job
I was reporting to the CEO
um and he had other things to do
and my business was fine
so he's kind of leaving me alone
and that was fine
but it meant that there was no one there to give me
those out of boys at work
and there was no one
my father was no longer there to give me those attaboys
or that praise
that external praise in my family life
and even my spiritual mentor
was not available to me at that time
that was the context
and I was feeling the weight of the world
you know I was in my mid 40s
I had a big job
there was nobody to go to
you know for advice or whatever I
I didn't like it
well in that moment in time
my son and I have been playing a lot of golf
he was on the school golf team
and this one Sunday afternoon
I was feeling really restless
and I was waiting for him to come home
so we could go play
and he didn't want to
so I went by myself
now it was the only time I've been by myself
in 10 years or more
cause I always went with him
or I went with work or with other friends
so I'm out there by myself
it's a late afternoon in September
and there's nobody on the course
there's nobody with me
there's nobody ahead of me or behind me
and we get to the third hole
at this short hole
hundred and twenty six yards
and I'm starting to feel a little bit more relaxed
it's this valley that has rabbits and foxes
the sun is filtering through the fading trees
you know the fading leaves of fall
and I hit my shot
and what I would say is
I'm a highly inconsistent golfer
like I like it
but I'm not that good
I hit my shot
and I couldn't see the hole
but where the ball landed
I thought oh my god
that went in
which means
I just got my first hole in one
and nobody was there to witness it
and I thought
well of course
of course this is how it happens right
and I got this real kind of
connection with the universe
and the message was
this is just for you
this is just for you
how do you want to feel about it
right and I let that sink in
as I was walking up to the whole thing
and I got up there and my balls not on the green
I got closer and the balls in the hole
of course it is
I take a picture of it
I send it to my son
he responds what
you know and I was thinking if he had been there
if I was with other people
it completely would have played out differently
there would have been club dropping and dancing
and picture taking and jumping around
you know we buy drinks for everybody at the clubhouse
I'd stop by the clubhouse and
sign a form to get my name in the paper
all that stuff
the next day
it'd be on social
you know I post about it everywhere
and everyone of these
moments is another opportunity for my life
to be reflected back from somebody else
to tell me how I feel about it
but the message was no
no no this is just for you
how do you wanna feel about it
and that was extraordinarily powerful
cause I started really asking that question for myself
in every part of my life
like now I'm
I'm living for me
look it doesn't mean that I don't have responsibility
to my family
to my job to other people but
how do I wanna feel about what's really important to me
and am I living to those internal values
or am I just making noise and
trying to get the attention of the universe
yeah yeah absolutely
that's so powerful
thank you for sharing
and being authentic is such a powerful reflection
and I love how the universe is just so wise
and it's unique ways about
giving us lessons that we need in the time that we need
them in the introspection um
and I think the reason I also had this introspection
recently is I can
I'm starting to work as a content creator
and when you
when you do that
you put yourself out there a new way
and the same with you you know
starting this um
new endeavour that will talk about here shortly
and you have to at some point question like
why am I doing this
because entrepreneurship to me
I thought it was just
you know the
I thought about it very differently
than I think about it now
but now to me
such a path of introspection
because everything that you can accomplish
is gonna be based on what's happening within
your resilience
your wise based on like what's really matter um
motivating you
and I feel so much calmer now
uh reflecting on like
what how am I loving myself
because I um
want to show up with others
not because I want them to give attention to me
but because I truly have the love
capacity within myself
that then I can pour out to others for a value
and I don't think I'm quite there yet
to be honest
now here I am five months in
I'm doing put in the leg work
but I'm only starting this journey to be honest like
I don't think I'm serving everybody with the high value
I can because I'm learning
to have that higher capacity for love myself
that's a really powerful self awareness
what I'd also say is there's no end point to that yeah
we're we're always still learning
there's always another level of it
I think you bring up a really important point
about kind of creativity and it's
it's easier perhaps to see as an entrepreneur
because as you said
your business is you
it will be a reflection of your state of awareness
your consciousness
and you'll follow the creative process because
you're building it
you're completely in charge
but what I've come to believe is that creativity
happens like that for all of us
whether it's really easy to see as a solopreneur
um or whether
regardless of our role in a company
or in an organization
you know part of what I do as I
I play music
I do photography
I'm creative and kind of a traditionally creative way
but what I realise is that
the creative process in work is exactly the same
um and when we can tap into that
it's really powerful
and it starts with our own level of awareness
so you're absolutely on the right path
thank you thank you
I'm right off track
and I wanna also dive into the next
chapter of your life
so when I was looking up after the inner NBA
I realized that you left LinkedIn
and now you're starting something completely different
which is really mushrooming and doing amazing things
can you tell our listeners
what the heck do you say to do after LinkedIn
and what's happening now
sure well I wrote this book that we talked about
the full body
yes came out in may of 21
and I ended up leaving LinkedIn a couple
a few months later
cause I wanted
it was just time for one reason
and also I wanted to
a bigger audience
uh LinkedIn was already in great space
I wanted to help other leaders and companies
and groups and organizations become more conscious
and you know
really it's about creating cultures
creating work cultures that are really amazing
that are competitive advantages and so
I started by doing speaking and executive coaching
and that sort of thing
and I still do that
but along the way
I found a business partner Nicholas
and we started this community called Changing Work
like changing work from the inside out
and the idea in this first phase
is to find people who are doing the work
like we are
of solar preneurs
doing the work of conscious business
and gathering them and helping them be more successful
you know giving them community
helping amplify their work
giving them more knowledge of the best practice
as a building solar premiership
really helping them thrive and be alive
that's the first phase
is help all these practitioners
cause we figure it's like a force multiplayer
if we can help them be successful
they will help lots of other people be successful
and then the second phase
in the future will be to
curate all the best practices from this collective
and make them available to business leaders
um and so hopefully over time
it becomes this big
beautiful community
all with um
the goal of changing
work for the better from the inside out
I know it's very necessary
especially going through
I know I'm biased
cause I recently was affected by the layoffs of meta
but I do think there's a sense like
we need change in the workplace and how things are done
and to shout out
changing work
I've been a member for a little bit
I know I haven't been as active as I want to sometimes
but that's okay
I honor the journey
but Nicholas Whitaker has been on this podcast
so many members of Changing Work have been on this
podcast as well
so please like
list through our
our guest list
and you'll find some incredible people
who are part of this or join if it's calling to you
so I'm very grateful for that and Scott
I want to take just
a step back
because here we are talking about mindfulness be like
oh what is now
what's the impact here
but you are also a numbers person
right like you
we're not talking like fluffy things
this would be nice to do in your life
but can you share a little bit about maybe
the numbers and things around the worklist that you've
discovered while this is impactful sure
yeah at the root of it
I'm still a business guy right
I'm I'm really interested in the ROI
and people would ask me
when I was doing the mindfulness
programs that LinkedIn like
what's the ROI of this stuff yeah
well I always start with
if it's a senior leader
and we can have a real conversation
I always start with well
what's the ROI of turning the air conditioning
you know when it's really hot in the summer
what's the ROI of turning the air conditioning on
oh what ha ha
why aren't we asking that question
well it's something that's good for employees
like we know when they're comfortable
they're gonna be
you know better at what they do
or most companies offer a gym at work well
what's the ROI of that new rowing
machine that we put in
well and we're not even asking that question why
because we know that when
employees are healthier
physically healthier
they're gonna be at their best
and that's gonna be good for the company
so then I asked something like
alright well
you support the gym right
yeah yeah sure
I support you know
physical exercise
I see how important it is like
great um well
how many of your employees
need to bench press twice their weight for their job
or how many of your employees
need to run a six and a half minute mile for their job
and we laugh
you know cause
I see where I'm headed
I said alright
well how many of your employees
need to be mentally focused
how many employees need to be
emotionally
stable to do their job well right
and then the light bulb comes on
it's like oh okay
so in my opinion
we should be spending
hundreds of times more on our mental
well being than we are on the gyms
and the physical well being
look I'm a fan of the physical well being as well
so part of it is just common
basic understanding
basic sense
that for most companies
in the information age
employees are by far the single biggest asset
the single biggest
you know resource
that they have
and so you want your single biggest
resource to be at its optimum
and you know
that's one so
the mindfulness stuff
that's why we do
is we want people to be at their best
then we talk about
compassion and for me
this is really where the juice is
cause mindfulness
it's kind of an individual
sport right
it's an individual choice
just like the gym
we might offer it
but not everybody does the gym
just like we might offer mindfulness
not everybody's gonna do it
that's fine
it's a choice free will
but compassion
is how we treat each other
it's how we do everything
it's how we treat our customers
it's how we treat
our shareholders
how we treat our employees
and how we act among us
so that is embedded
in every single thing that we do
so the super high level
when I think about
a conscious
business or
being compassionate
I think about
essentially
moving from the me
to the we or
and the research shows
the companies who
balance the needs
of all of their stakeholders
instead of just the needs of their shareholders
they're actually more
profitable right
so let me say that again
so companies
who on purpose
create a great
experience for their employees
they create
great value for their customers
and they have a good business model
for their finances
their shareholders
on average they're 14 times
that's 14 percent more
profitable than the SMP average
this is the
this is the work from
Raj Sasodia
in the team that wrote
firms of endearment and later
Conscious Capitalism
so this is not just some like
feel good thing that happens in Northern
California like
this is how you
are successful
in business
is to provide something that is
has a value
a balanced value
exchange wow
that's amazing
I didn't know that said
thank you so much for sharing
and here you're coming from LinkedIn side
Nicholas coming as an ex
next Google
um I know from my ex
meta days that
things have changed
in big corporate
when I was started there
I can almost 7 years ago
and I know I'm not this most senior person
it felt like a
magical place
you know and actually leaving it
I didn't feel that bad
you know not that
there's lack of love for people
but the the culture has changed like
and I was working remotely
that's probably part of it
but the company has matured
I know some of that is natural
but now as you're starting
changing work
how what are you trying to do differently
what are the key things that you're trying to do
differently
and and I know you're still figuring a lot out
but how are you going to
intention wise and like
what's your aspiration
how can work
and make something
we actually
enjoy sure well
at changing work
we're trying to model
being a conscious
company right
we're trying to model
the idea of how we work together
how we have a balanced value
exchange um
and in the collective
we're constantly
building the knowledge base of what it means to be a
conscious company
and of course
not every company gets it right
we probably won't get it right either
but it starts with intention
and I think
every one of these companies started with intention
you mentioned that
you know maybe seven years ago
that was probably in the
in the height of the glory days
seven or eight years ago
in in tech uh
LinkedIn and Google
and meta and others
and what I'd say is
it's easier
to have a great
employee culture
when the finances
are going really strong right
I could LinkedIn
we're going 50
60 70% a year
for a long time
and then when there's some head winds
when the economic
head winds come
and you have to cut costs
so you have to lay people off
then sometimes
not always it doesn't have to be this way
sometimes the culture changes
I think a lot
in all of those companies
of course there's
pockets there's
pockets of really
amazing leadership
and amazing
work cultures
and there's pockets
and there always have been pockets
where it's not
where you have kind of the
traditional
command and control leaders
but I think
on the whole
it's a rising tide
meaning that
things are getting better over time
even if in this moment
it's maybe not as good as it was
you know few years ago
on a whole things are getting more um
things are getting better from the
perspective
of the worker
they're getting better from this
perspective
of value creation
for customers
so I'm optimistic
beautiful and
in terms of just maybe
practical advice
if you were
talking to leaders
at a company
or maybe even like
entrepreneurs
who are looking to
create a blueprint of a culture
that can be more mindful
and conscientious
what would be some of the
advice you'd give them
like for the
foundational
or something that
just practically
you've Learned
recently sure
I'd start with intention right
what are they trying to do
in the world
and not from a
perspective of
how much money
are they gonna
try to make
but what are they really trying to do
and is it good
for the whole
right and then
when they get into the operation
levels and they start
building your plans
or building your goals
I recommend a balance
goal sheet right
are we creating
value for customers
for employees
and for shareholders
and every time
always looking at those three things
and then as a leader
as the top leaders
what are they
keeping the organization
focused on you know
as an example
going back to our
discussion about the
Amigdala are
is a leader
always talking about things
from a fear
perspective
it's like oh
here's all the things that we did wrong
last quarter
and let's go fix them
I call it pothole
management okay
right we we
get so fixated on the pothole
we don't realize
there's 999 miles
of perfect road
before we get to the
one pothole
and instead of focusing
on you know
I'm a leader
standing on stage
at all hands
instead of saying hey
we're gonna
be the next
whatever it is
hundred million dollar
one billion
ten billion
dollar company
because at the end of the day
who cares like
it's of course
it's exciting
to be on a winning team
but is that what
we're gonna remember
when we're old and grey
and retired
or on our deathbed
no so tell the stories
of how the company is
changing the world
tell the stories
of how the company is changing
the lives of their customers
and their employees
for the better
right because that
shifts the focus
away from hey
it's just about
making money
which is only
the shareholders
it shifts the focus
away to being a balance
here's how we're making
everything better
the lives of
our customers
the lives of our employees
and yes and we're
successful too
we're a winning team
those are just
some of the basics
but if you start there
it's hard to go wrong
I love that
and if we dive
just a little bit deeper
I know that at Meadow
we had like
a mindfulness group
and there's
some practices
that you could
you know choose to
voluntarily
be part of but
do you have any
recommendations
for what can
you know again
small businesses
businesses of size
incorporate
into their actual
you know work
practices or give
support to that helps
their employees
on the ground
have a more
mindful approach
their work sure
first I think it starts with intention
right it's not just a tick in the back exercise
it starts with this intention that as a leader
I want the best for my employees
like truly I wanna offer them as package of benefits
and a package of things that helps them be
successful as a human
successful with their mental health
their emotional health
their physical health
all of those things
so it starts with intention
and then what
do we what does it actually mean
what do we give them
there are different things
for different size of companies
but for almost any size company
I like you know
some of the apps
we started with headspace and LinkedIn we
we moved to the app called wise at work
for my friends at Wisdom Labs
and I really like that one
I appreciate when I appreciate that one
cause it's built for people who are working
in the context of work
so it's not just a meditation app like oh
help me fall asleep
it's also things like hey
I'm gonna go into this stressful
meeting in five minutes
what can I do to kind of get in a better place
so I find that to be really powerful
but then it's more than just a tick in the box oh hey
we we offered everybody the app
so we wash our hands and we're done with it no
it needs to be something that the leadership team
the managers are talking about
we're regularly checking in hey
how are you doing
have you have you used you know
some of these tools are available
are you aware of some of these tools are available
cause a lot of times
what's happening is the company will buy access
you know to these apps and then not do anything with it
right you know
and after a year or two
people don't even know that it exists
and that's you know
it's better than nothing
but not by much
and so intention
and then a regular drip of attention on it
yeah it's funny how we talk about intention
in so many different parts of this conversation
from like intention is necessary to actually have
agency in our life to hear
we see the perfect overlap for that in business
so I love that
one thing I also try to create in this podcast is like
the real story behind things
so here we talk about this beautiful transition
and now you have your uh
teen Junior collective
and you you know
grew your practice through challenges
but have there been
really big challenges that you have to face
going in from
corporate now into your own kind of endeavor
that you care to share that maybe
it will help others on their transitions or growth
hmm good question
there's always challenges
I'm not gonna say I have like you know
life threatening challenges that were big and serious
but it's for sure in the scale of you know
annoying and not what I want
and the day to day grind and all of those things
cause you know
life is imperfect
I think one of the real learnings for me
as an entrepreneur is that
you kind of mentioned it earlier
like every day is freedom
it's freedom
and sometimes it doesn't feel like freedom
you know sometimes I open my
my computer
and it feels like I have a thousand messages
I have a thousand different directions to go
and I don't know what to do first
I just start doing and it's just overwhelming
but the truth is I have to
in that moment
I have to have a talk with my boss
who is the guy in the mirror me and say
you put it all there
you know what
what is it you want
what do you wanna create
you have total freedom to create
you don't have to do any of it
you don't have to
it's a choice
every one of it's a choice
of course there's consequences to every choice
but everything is a choice
yeah and I think that's well
it's especially true for entrepreneurs
it's also true for all of us
yeah if your job feels like a grind and blah blah blah
it's so much more empowering to view it as a choice
absolutely and again
there's consequences
but it's a choice
and so starting from that place of like
oh I'm creating this yeah
so if I find myself in this place where I'm feeling
overwhelmed
like okay well
what would I prefer to create
yeah and it might not happen overnight
but I'll find myself a week later
two weeks later
a month later
it's like oh
there it is
I manifested what I really wanted
oh I love that
you know it's funny
when I started this journey
I had this intention that I'm gonna
enjoy the journey
not just the destination
here I am you know
setting up for my own it's like
creating my own terms of how I'm gonna do things
and yet just before this week go after Thanksgiving
I was thinking ah
I'm kind of anxious about starting this week
here I am my own boss doing things on my own terms
and I had to have like
why am I doing this again
like why am I recreating now these habits
and now I have no corporate to blame for you know
making me so busy
and I had to go back to this reflection like again
I'm seeking validation
through like all this restlessness
and if I confront that and focus on the inner work
then it becomes calmer
and then what's powerful is that I'm creating a reality
I don't wanna escape
and that's so powerful because we think that you know
can't wait till the weekend
can't wait till that vacation
but when you're your own boss
like you have to be conscious of things that
also making you want to escape the reality
you're creating yourself
and that's like a hard place to be cause like
then you have no excuses and you have to have a
take a really hard look
and so I found that by impact
like by having a deeper relationship with myself
I'm actually becoming more okay with the now
like even the
the parts that suck
even the parts that are uncomfortable
even parts like are boring
right and just like
how many actually enjoying this like I'm
I'm done just trying to always live in the future
and like constantly sending energy to the future
like I want to
really embrace the good of now
and the okay of now
and the suck of now
because like
that's just
it's a different relationship
and I'm just really loving that change
and this process
there's what you're talking about is self
responsibility
yeah and this is such a powerful
tool in our growth right
I think that we move in this continuum
and at one side of the continuum is
life is happening to me
right I'm I'm a victim
life is happening to me
and then we can start to take more responsibility
we can kinda see the lessons
we can kinda see that every challenge that we have
is actually an opportunity to grow
it's an opportunity to learn more about our life
learn more about love
and in this space
it's life is happening for me
and then when we really go deep
when we're really in tune
with that deepest part of ourselves
or in tune with the divine
or whatever you wanna call it
then we can be used as a co creator with life
and life can happen through us
but it starts with the self responsibility
to say that oh no
I'm actually in charge here
yeah yeah and again
I think it takes that love
right against the
seems like a popular world
but it's really honoring that you are worthy
like right now
not when you achieve a goal
not when you lose 30 pounds
not when you become smarter
prettier more successful
like you're worthy of love right now
that's right
very cliche
but very powerful
um one last thing I wanna share
and then give you space to add
anything that we might have missed
but when we
connected on the prep call
you mentioned
like one challenge again
we don't have to talk about
if you don't want to
is that when you left
when you you're now
you were leaving links in
that the relationship changed
and the people treated you differently
right would you mind touching on that and like
maybe if you want to again
we can cut it
and that is that like
how did that change your view of like
leadership and like
being a conscious leader
and like those
relationships that you form
and how can they be different if you're
I don't know
approaching it that way
oh one of the experiences I had is
in my previous
role at LinkedIn
I was the VP of global
customer operations
and at its peak
I think my team was just over 1,000 people
right so that meant that there was
I don't know
120 or 140 managers
you know all in my team
and it seemed like they always
everybody wanted time
for me right
it was like mods to a flame
they wanted to have lunch
they wanted to have mentoring
they want to have advice
and I understand it
cause they saw me
as the person in charge of their career
yeah and then
there came a time when I announced that I was you know
switching roles
I was gonna take this mindfulness role
and there would be a new person
in charge of the organization
and in that moment
I don't know if you've ever seen these solar
factories where
there's a bunch of giant mirrors
out on the desert
and they're all pointing to a central
tower to heat the
water of the tower right
it was like
it was like
I was the tower
and then every one of those mirrors tilted
away from me ah
and and it was fine
it was natural
but what I found is
after that you know
nobody wanted advice
no one wanted to have lunch
no one wanted to
and what I realized
pretty quickly was that
so much of our
persona as a leader
is not us as a person
but it's the position
hmm you know
it's positional strength
it's positional um
power versus
personal power
and that um
on the one hand
is humbling
on the other hand
it's just it's just the way it is
but if if I had more deeply realized
that during
you know during all those years
I may have dealt with it differently
no I so appreciate for
sharing selfishly
I just think it's such a powerful story
for leadership
and I'm sure that you also showed up differently
as a leader
going to your next thing
because of that
hmm right um
is there anything that you
kind of taking that reflection
made you cultivate
leadership differently
I think generally
generally I am more humble
now than I was in my previous roles
and partly partly
just the nature of the roles
um as an example
when I was in this role
I had a big staff
of people who are all there to
ensure I was
successful as
really you know
the group and the company were successful
I had my own HR
person and an assistant
and a chief of staff
and a finance
person and a
blah blah blah
a giant team
yeah and then
in my next role
is basically me
myself and my you know
business partner
and now as an entrepreneur
um leading a small team
first as a solar preneur
and now a team of
three or four
uh it just it just
I I'm just I have
like regressed
in one way like
I'm just a guy
like I don't see myself as this
um whatever
a big deal that needs to be taken care of
it's just like
I'm just here
I'm a kid from Kansas
who's trying to do
do what I'm doing
you know it was beautiful
the light behind you just flashed
as you said that
like the universe is
like yeah Scott
thank you again
for sharing
I just thought it was a beautiful story
and I wasn't sure how to call
call it out
so thank you for kindly
just rolling
if and sharing
cause I think it's just
so powerful to hear like
how we take every experience
and it could be a learning curve
and it shapes us
who we are and makes us
better leaders
and even the challenges
if we reflect on it
can help us understand ourselves better
and what we wanna do in the world better
having that
different perspective on things
thank you you're incredible human being
from the moment I heard you speak
which was like in a room of 1,000 people
so it was just you and you had no clue I was there
I just really gravitate towards your energies
like oh gosh
like what he's doing was really cool
so I'm really grateful that you said yes to this
and I just wanna create
any space for anything we missed out
that you wanna share for audience before we wrap up
cool my pleasure
my pleasure
and so good to be with you and everyone who's listening
if you want to continue the conversation
there's a couple things right
if you're part of an organization
if you're a leader
that you'd like to bring some of this type of work
uh reach out
I do things like executive coaching
and retreats with teams and workshops
it'll be good fun
and if you are an entrepreneur
if you're a solo preneur who's doing the work of
conscious business as a coach or a consultant
check us out at changing work.org
um we have uh
you can get 30 days of free premium access
we'll even give you two more months at half price
we have a code
I think it's C w podcast 23
like Changing Work podcast 23
so uh and feel free to reach out to me directly
I'm at Scott at changingwork dot org
oh thank you Scott
I appreciate that
I'll make sure to link the
the code and promo and all Scott's details
so you can check it out
and Scott here
right off track
we wrap up of 3 rapid fire questions
so whenever you are ready ready
okay first of all
best advice for someone
starting in mindfulness practice
have an intention of why you want to
it's just like the gym right
if you started going to the gym
it's hard work
so week later
your muscles hurt and you're like wait
what am I doing here
and if you don't have a clear idea
you'll stop going
and the same is true with the mindfulness practice
so why do you want it
is it for peace
is it for relationships
is it for enlightenment
have a clear reason
beautiful I see the theme
I see the theme is constant here
I love it okay
morning routine
morning routine that sets you up for success uh
everyday I go out in the backyard and I do my thing
I do my practice
um I go outside
you know one of my favourite quotes is from James Clear
from Atomic Habits
he says our lives do not rise to the level of our goals
they fall to the level of our systems
and so for me
building a system to maintain my practices critical
cause otherwise it just doesn't happen
so my system is every morning I go outside
why cause if I do it inside
I'm so tempted
if I do it in my office
I'm so tempted
just to open my computer and get lost in the day
so I go outside and then I sit in front of my fireplace
at least now in the wintertime when it's chillier
and I do my practice
and that gets me aligned with
all these intentions that we're talking about
it helps me
manifest and create the life that I really want
instead of just being
blown around by what actually happens
ugh I love that
I love the intention
and the systems are so powerful again
just because we talk about mindfuls
doesn't mean we're lacking this focus on like
systematically approaching it okay
last but not least
in the positive context
going off track is
in the positive context
going off track
is being our own leader
being our own boss you know
it's easy to run with the herd
it's easy to do what everybody else does
it's hard to be us
it's hard to be a unique
flavor of us and be that beautiful
shiny unicorn that we all are
and in doing so
we really find our place
we find our place in our own heart
and we find our place in the herd
by going off track
absolutely yeah
absolutely we
we find our new herd if we need to
right we don't
we don't start to fit in
we create a space that honors us fully
so thank you
Scott and to all of our listeners
I'm so grateful for you
investing in yourself by listening to this episode
and I'm really curious
like what intention is sparked
when you're listening to this
share it in the comments
and also if you have a friend who's maybe like
oh you know
maybe they could use a little bit more reflection
you feel like maybe they could
they can um
benefit from stuff
so I would so be grateful if you share it with them
share with somebody else who might benefit from this
and I also wanna just um
create space and mention the nonprofit
ready to empower
their support
they are celebrating their 10th anniversary right now
with the goal of raising
$50,000 through donation by December 8th
if you feel
inspired to making a difference in the world
empowering women
and just share whatever is
feels comfortable your heart
I would so be appreciative of you
sharing out the link for that description
and as always
thank you so much for coming off track of us
let's take over the world together
and let's got any final words
go out there and be ambassadors for joy
I love it thank you Scott this was amazing thank you
and I think that is very powerful for me
I'm your host
a leader who's truly turning these