Shaping the IVF World and AI’s Promising Role - Klaus Wiemer PhD is RightOffTrack | Anya Smith

Anya Smith (00:01.831)
Hey friends, welcome back to RightOffTrack. I'm your host Anya Smith, and today we have an extraordinary guest who embodies the essence of transformation and the power of following your passion. Meet Klaus Wimmer, PhD, a man who went from cattle ranches in northern Mexico to revolutionizing the field of infertility and embryology. Klaus is here to share his incredible journey that proves it's not about where you start, but where you finish that counts. He's a living testament to the idea

that when you invest in yourself and seize opportunities, you can change the course of your life. Raised on a cattle ranch, Klaus found his calling in embryology and went on to earn his master's at New Mexico State University and a PhD at Louisiana State University. Just when he thought he'd spend his life in the animal industry, a single phone call from a renowned scientist shifted his entire trajectory. Fast forward to 1988.

and he's winning the grand prize from the American Society of Reproductive Medicine. Klaus has since published 80 peer-reviewed articles, co-founded fertility centers, and now consults the IVF centers globally. He's also the corporate lab director for global premier fertility and recently took on the role of head of clinical affairs Americas for Fairtality, Fertility, an AI company based in Israel. Klaus is here to remind us, if you don't invest in yourself, who will?

So grab your favorite beverage, sit down, and let's dive into this awe-inspiring conversation. Trust us, you don't wanna miss this. Thank you for joining this class. So excited to have you here.

Klaus Wiemer PhD (01:37.902)
Thank you so much for having me. I'm super excited to get to do this and share my story.

Anya Smith (01:43.107)
Ugh, I'm honored. And just to share a little bit more context about how we met. So honestly, you know my husband, Adam, you guys work out together in Kirkland, Washington, but right now you're in Argentina, right?

Klaus Wiemer PhD (01:50.53)
Yep, yep.

Klaus Wiemer PhD (01:56.79)
Yeah, I'm in Buenos Aires, exactly.

Anya Smith (01:59.151)
And what are you doing there if you don't mind sharing it for our audience?

Klaus Wiemer PhD (02:03.106)
Well, no problem. I'm on a scientific advisory board for a really large IVF clinic here that's celebrating its 40th anniversary this week. So we're here giving lectures, going over all our scientific experiments and studies that we're doing, and also gonna have a good time, a great excuse to have some Argentinian wines and some great steaks. So who would turn that down? I would not. I would not say you have to.

Anya Smith (02:28.191)
Sounds amazing. It does sound, I would not. Next time you have an extra play and take, I'll come with you. But in the meanwhile, said 40 years of the center, which is so much has happened in this time. And I'm curious with your own journey winding back, again, we talked about a little bit about your background, but can you tell us in your own words, like how did this whole fascinating journey start to where now you're a global expert, but where did it begin?

Klaus Wiemer PhD (02:53.042)
Well, you know, I almost feel like I was born to do this because reproductive and fertility in animals, in most farms, is a really big thing. You know, farmers are highly educated. Most of them are scientists understand how important reproductive efficiency is. So a lot of the things that we do today.

in treating human infertility was actually based in the veterinary aspect. So growing up on our ranch, you know, we did fertility assessment in our animals and things like that. So I was always aware of that. And then, you know, when you were watching a sperm cell swim across the microscope, you're like, wow, look at this thing, man. It has all the information to make a baby. And, you know, it's just pretty wild to see all that.

And so I was just fascinated by that whole aspect.

Anya Smith (03:48.795)
I think you mentioned to me earlier, I could be wrong, that it was your grandparents farm that you were working on or growing up on?

Klaus Wiemer PhD (03:56.262)
My grandfather had a large cattle ranch in northern Mexico in the state of Chihuahua, which is between Sonora and the state of Chihuahua. It was up in the Sierra Madres. It was a really large cattle ranch. We had over 2,000 head of cattle, and we also raised horses as well.

Anya Smith (04:16.776)
So what was it like? So you're growing up there, you have this initial interest. What do you see yourself doing, like going from the ranch and then going to school?

Klaus Wiemer PhD (04:25.878)
Well, I mean, obviously people like myself, we're gonna either become veterinarians or work in some area like that. That's kind of the deal that we all take. So I was an animal science major at a small college in East Texas called Stephen F. Austin, go lumberjacks. We...

Anya Smith (04:34.518)
Mm.

Klaus Wiemer PhD (04:44.79)
You know, I was an animal science major and I thought I was going to be pre-vet, but then I volunteered at a vet clinic. I was like, oh man, I just can't deal with all these sick animals. I, this is just too much for me. So I was kind of a lost soul. And then I applied to graduate school at New Mexico state because I was like, well, I know I love science. I know I love the reproductive aspects, but I don't know what I want to do yet. So when I got to New Mexico state.

Anya Smith (04:53.805)
Aww.

Anya Smith (05:08.075)
Mm.

Klaus Wiemer PhD (05:12.278)
I was working on my master's degree. I was working more in male infertility. I was looking at the effects of certain diseases in populations of sheep in New Mexico. And we took a field trip up to this dairy in New Mexico called Price's Dairies. And at the time they were one of the leading edge private industries in terms of assisted reproduction, really pushing technology. So.

My friend who happened to work there had a dish out with all these embryos and I looked into the dish and I went, wow, holy smokes, this is it. This is my call. And it was like as if I made a connection with these embryos. It was like, beam me up Scotty, I want to be part of your world. And then just that was it. So then at that point in time, I'm like, this is perfect. I'm gonna work on a cattle ranch, I'm gonna do this and that and the other. So I was working at this dairy.

I applied to LSU. The professor flew out from LSU to visit where we were. He was super impressed with everything, and which was good because I was a guy who took the graduate record exam, you know, like six and seven and eight times in order to get the minimum score, whereas some of my colleagues in grad school worked in a gas station all night.

The next morning they went and took a test and made really high marks. And I was at the bottom of the food chain, but luckily we had a professor who says, you know, I don't really believe in these standardized tests. You, you're, you're like a Marine. You're first in and last out. He goes, that's what I need. That's what the world is, is all about. So I was attracted to somebody like that because he would see more as a whole.

Anya Smith (06:37.769)
Wow.

Wow.

Anya Smith (06:51.131)
Yeah.

Anya Smith (06:57.919)
Wow, amazing. And then I think you had a little story also about how you were thinking, hey, my future is gonna be on this animal side. Like I kinda have a footing here, but then there's a big difference I think between animal and then humans. Although maybe there is less of a difference, but how did you pick that pivot from, like here's kind of something I find interesting. Now I'm grad school, I'm building the foundation, and then you take it to the next leap and the next focus for your life.

Klaus Wiemer PhD (07:23.71)
Well, what happened was, again, this is why, you know, I always encourage people to seek out people that are really have a huge vision that help you remove.

you know, the narrow scope that we have, because we all really tend to narrow our vision a lot and we need somebody to take those blinders off. Classic example, my professor says, I know you want to live in Montana and you're going to be a cowboy forever and you're going to be this rough tough dude. He says, but I'm going to make you write a paper about human IVF. And I'm like, dude, really? I thought you liked me. And he says, no, you need to expand your horizons, Klaus. You need to kind of open up your brain. That's why you're becoming a doctor. You're going to become a doctor

It's like, okay, so I'm writing this paper, but at the same time I'm working a lot with horses. So it's in the springtime during the height of the breeding season, and you're working from dark, from morning to dark with horses because horses only breed during a small period of time.

And so in the meantime, you know, you're working all day with horses and at night you're writing a term paper about human IBF, like really a cowboy. I mean, literally I wore nothing but cowboy boots and cowboy hats and jeans and all that. And so, um, I'm like, I'm going to become a cowboy no matter what. So one day.

We've been out working horses and I was covered in mud and poop and everything else. And I can hear my phone ringing at the time I lived in a little bitty house out in the country. So I'm trying to rinse myself off so I can go in the house. So I run in the house and I hear this, hello? And I'm like, yeah. And I'm like, is this Klaus? I'm like, yeah. And he says, this is Jacques Cohen. And I'm like, what?

Klaus Wiemer PhD (09:14.962)
Like, dude, I'm writing papers right now and I've been listing your name. And he goes, yeah, that's me. He's got a heavy Dutch accent. So I'm thinking at first somebody's pranking me. I'm like, dude, this isn't real. He goes, no, this is real. I'm like, I'm going to hang up on you. This is no way it's you. He goes, yes. He says, I drew an experiment out on a napkin in a bar. My professor says, I love the napkin. Can I have that napkin?

Anya Smith (09:24.057)
Wow.

Klaus Wiemer PhD (09:43.826)
So I had drawn out an experiment on a bar. So, you know, a little bit of Budweiser and oysters made the right feelings. So I drew out this napkin, this study. My professor takes it. I don't think anything of it. He made a Xerox copy of it, faxed it to Dr. Cohen in Atlanta. He had just come from England where the first IVF baby had been born in 1978. So we're talking like 1984, 85. So he says, I love your experiment.

Anya Smith (10:00.172)
Wow.

Anya Smith (10:07.615)
Wow.

Klaus Wiemer PhD (10:13.762)
that you drew out on the napkin, he said, when can you come to Atlanta? And I said, well, this sounds great, but I'm not really that interested in working in humans. He says, why don't we just try it? Let's see how it goes. So I ended up going to Atlanta in November of 1984, and I just absolutely fell in love.

Anya Smith (10:13.854)
Wow.

Klaus Wiemer PhD (10:38.762)
with human IVF. In fact, to the point where I had only been there about three or four days, I called up my professor. I said, dude, time out, you're brilliant. I'm so glad you made me do this. And I said, we're changing my whole thesis, my dissertation, we're gonna completely change the dissertation to where we'll have a little bit of stuff about animals, but we're really gonna delve into the human aspect. And so since that day,

Anya Smith (10:52.767)
tomorrow.

Klaus Wiemer PhD (11:03.89)
You know, we developed some research projects. That research project ended up winning an award in 1988 for making the greatest contribution to human infertility. And, you know, the doors just opened. But even then, I still said, I'm gonna go into the animal world. So I turned down lots of opportunities, moved to Canada, mostly so I could go skiing.

Anya Smith (11:30.347)
Hehehe

Klaus Wiemer PhD (11:31.334)
and took this job outside of Calgary and was working in the biotech area, but it just, it just wasn't the same thing. So I ended up going back into human IVF thinking this is, this is my calling. And when I reflect on it, that phone, if I had gotten home five minutes later, I would have missed a phone call. If I hadn't been running to get to the phone or knew who this person was, I would have had no idea what was going on.

Anya Smith (11:52.894)
Yeah.

Anya Smith (11:59.504)
Yeah.

Klaus Wiemer PhD (11:59.602)
And that phone call completely turned my life upside down. For the better.

Anya Smith (12:05.235)
That's amazing. You know what it makes me think about also? We often think about if we start something new that we're starting from scratch, but although you had a very specialized focus, but it seems like things that you had, your knowledge prepared you for that next step. Even though you didn't think they would turn out this way, your interest in one area kind of gave you a stepping stone to the next area, which then gave you a step motion and maybe more creativity to solve this new problem in a different but related space. And so I love.

Klaus Wiemer PhD (12:13.157)
I'll see you next time.

Anya Smith (12:32.091)
Maybe a lesson for myself and people listening that life kind of guides you in a creative way where maybe you don't know exactly where it's going to turn out or like what phone call you're going to get next. But trusting that this inquisitive kind of interest might lead you to very interesting unknown areas is important.

Klaus Wiemer PhD (12:41.635)
you

Klaus Wiemer PhD (12:49.462)
Exactly. I mean, you, you've got to challenge yourself. I mean, for me, you know, to take a now in retrospect, when you think about it, it would have been very easy for me to take a job in Montana, Wyoming on a big ranch, because that's kind of what I'd been around and that was a very easy place to go, whereas, you know, moving to a major city, you know, working in an intense hospital.

you know, because that's where all the IVF clinics were back in those days. They were, you know, either private clinics or hospitals, but they were completely different than an animal, you know, reproduction center versus a human reproduction center. There was no, I mean, first of all, the amount of paperwork in a human IVF lab is overwhelming, but it was just for me, it was a calling because you're there at the right time. In other words, human IVF was just in its infancy.

Anya Smith (13:24.924)
Yeah.

Anya Smith (13:31.103)
right.

Klaus Wiemer PhD (13:41.998)
And my professor and Dr. Cohen both says, you've got a gift in this. Your ideas can lead to a lot of discoveries. Use your brain. You have a chance. You're like, you're like one of the Wright brothers right now. You know, you get to be a pioneer in this field. And, you know, I said, that's a great idea. I love it. And so my, you know, my professor and I, Dr.

Anya Smith (13:49.075)
Hmm.

Anya Smith (13:57.599)
Oh.

Klaus Wiemer PhD (14:09.686)
I know he's looking down right now, looking at us all, but I know Dr. Cohen, Jacques Cohen and I, we collaborated for many, many years and he's like one of my best friends now, you know, and the relationships that you built from all this, I got to meet Dr. Professor Edwards, he won the Nobel Prize not so long ago. Yeah, I mean, he and I, we used to talk about gardening all the time.

Anya Smith (14:12.079)
Mm.

Anya Smith (14:22.573)
Oh.

Anya Smith (14:30.888)
Wow.

Anya Smith (14:36.243)
Hahaha!

Klaus Wiemer PhD (14:36.798)
I mean, you meet all these pioneers that have made amazing contributions, and you get invited to hang out in the room with these guys and gals. You got to pinch yourself because it would be no different than going, you know, for back in those days, it would have been to sit in a room with all the guys from Led Zeppelin, you know, you're like, Whoa, these are like super rock star heroes in the world of academia. They also have groupies, you know. So, yeah, it was just.

Anya Smith (15:04.255)
Ha ha!

Klaus Wiemer PhD (15:06.678)
But if I hadn't kept an open mind, none of this would have happened.

Anya Smith (15:12.023)
And can you elaborate also, I picture here you are, you are excited for this opportunity and you obviously took it, but I imagine besides the glamour and this big kind of support system that you described, there are also a lot of challenges. Like I can imagine internally, maybe you also have maybe doubt, maybe not sure like, hey, can I measure up to this environment? Were there any challenges that you can feel free like you can share about, that you had to overcome on this journey? Maybe like right now in that point they describe where

Klaus Wiemer PhD (15:23.733)
Thank you.

Anya Smith (15:41.447)
Hey, you got a phone call, you're going to jump in this opportunity site, you're going to go for this field. Do you have to overcome anything internally to be successful in that area?

Klaus Wiemer PhD (15:51.588)
Every day, I remind myself that when I walk into a human IVF lab and I'm working with people's future, it is a privilege. It's an honor for me to do so. And so you never, ever forget that. But at the same time, you put huge amounts of pressure on yourself.

So for me, the pressures are on a daily basis of like, I need to do my best job today because who knows what this patient had to get through in order to be here. Because IVF is super expensive. I mean, I've known people who've had to, you know, borrow money, cookie sales, bake sales, anything to try to come up with the money, dip into their 401k. So and so everything.

is in your hands. It doesn't matter if you're a Microsoft engineer or if you work at a convenience store, when it comes to your fertility issues and wanting to have a child, that brings us all down to the same level and to a level where...

everybody has puts a lot of pressure on you. And so those are the pressures that we in ourselves put a lot on ourselves. And that is to be the best that we can, try not to let people down, know that you're doing everything possible to make a dream come true.

Anya Smith (17:13.663)
Absolutely. And you also described being in this room with people who are very influential in that space. Like again, they have groupies. What did you learn from that experience? Maybe that you would share with others about how to prepare or be present in those kinds of settings where there are people that they may look up to, people who are very influential and they want to be there, you know, powerfully, be there present and have an impact in that space. But maybe they're just starting to get their aspire to be there.

Klaus Wiemer PhD (17:25.422)
Thank you.

Klaus Wiemer PhD (17:42.018)
Don't, first of all, be confident in yourself. Know that you are good. You gotta tell yourself you're good. And the leaders that you really want to get to know, they've all been where you are.

So if you just go up and talk to somebody and say, you know, Dr. or Mr. or Mrs. So-and-so, I have a huge respect for what you've done. You know, this is who I am. I would really love to learn from you or talk to you or, you know, have contact with you, you know, in this day and age of cell phones and text messaging and emails, it's so easy to develop these collegial relationships, but all you have to do are two things, be confident in yourself that know that, Hey, I know my stuff.

And number two, walk up to somebody that you have a lot of admiration for and say, man, I love what you do. I want to learn from you. And you would be surprised how many of these people would go, awesome, I'm going to bring you into the family because you know what? We need to pass this information on to the next generation.

Anya Smith (18:46.383)
Right, absolutely. And I think you didn't, you know, now you're an advisory personnel, you're traveling the world, but can you share a little bit more about the backstory about like how did you decide to actually start your own work in VIVF, like going through, you know, supporting somebody else and then taking on your own endeavor in this space?

Klaus Wiemer PhD (19:07.326)
Well, it's interesting. You know, my father was an entrepreneur. He took the company Taiwan Semiconductor public in the early 90s. So before that happened, you know, my dad had worked at Texas Instruments for many years. And he says, oh, they're going to take good care of us. Well, of course, you know, they didn't take good care of us. So my dad became the president of Taiwan Semiconductor. So we're having a Thanksgiving dinner around our house.

And we're talking about the founder of Dell computers there, you know, Microsoft employee number 35, you know, all these people that are like, whoa, in the tech industry are all there. So I'm just kind of sitting there in the corner being really quiet. So everybody's talking. And so all of a sudden they come, they turn to me and says, hey, Klaus, well, what do you do? And I said, well, I'm a director of an IVF lab, you know, and they're like, wow, so do you own the clinic?

Anya Smith (19:45.758)
Yeah.

Anya Smith (19:56.763)
Ha ha.

Klaus Wiemer PhD (20:03.89)
And I'm like, well, why would you say that? And because all these are lay people, they go, well, let's look about it like this. You're in the business of making babies. So you're the dude that makes the baby. So you own all the technology. So therefore you own the business, right? I go, no, actually I'm a PhD. I have a PhD. My colleagues have MDs. One guy raised his hand and goes, who cares? He goes, this guy over here that builds clean rooms.

Anya Smith (20:05.983)
Yeah.

Anya Smith (20:20.095)
I'm sorry.

Klaus Wiemer PhD (20:30.986)
He barely graduated from high school, but yet I wouldn't build a clean room anywhere in the world without this guy. And then everybody echoed in that says, it doesn't really matter what's behind your name. It's what you're contributing. You know, to the final process, in this case, making babies.

And so another colleague, I think the founder of Dell said to me, he says, Klaus, he says, if people come to the IVF clinic, it's like coming to a restaurant. They don't care if you're sitting on a plastic table or you're eating off of fine china, as long as the food is good. I'll sit outside on the curb and eat it. He goes, that's what IVF patients want. They want to come to a place that's got a good kitchen, IE lab. So after that, I went back.

Anya Smith (21:09.394)
Yeah.

Klaus Wiemer PhD (21:13.078)
to where my first job was. And I said to them, I said, hey, you know, this is kind of how I'm thinking. You know, if it wasn't for me, I've tripled your pregnancy rates. You know, how could we create a better business model that aligns incentives? And I was immediately told, no way. You have a PhD and I have an MD. I'll never partner with you. So at that point in time, it's like, I gotta go.

Anya Smith (21:37.705)
Wow.

Klaus Wiemer PhD (21:40.402)
And, you know, again, this is what I'll tell to all the listeners. I, I had a lot of people say to me, you can't do that. That's not right. You don't deserve that. And I actually had people push back at me and I actually had a hard time finding a job because I was very adamant that like, look, I'm contributing tons to what's going on, I should be a part of the project. And really it wasn't until, you know,

later on that I founded the two clinics in Seattle that to the credit of my physician colleagues, they had the vision to know if we have the best person running our laboratory, ensuring that the clinic is running as best as it can, then we don't have to worry about everything else because we're all on the same team. I don't have to worry about another clinic coming and poaching my head chef, for example.

And that happens in the restaurant business all the time until you make the chef part of an owner, an equity partner. And so, again, I would tell everybody out there, if you're in a position where you feel like you're really contributing a huge amount of intellectual property or outcomes, you're really influencing outcomes, then you should talk to the people that you work with and they hopefully have the vision to open up their minds to look at things in a different way.

So today there's way more PhDs that are lab directors, equity shareholders, and IVF clinics, because really all the technology's in the IVF lab right now.

Anya Smith (23:15.175)
Yeah. And what inspires me about this also is that it sounds like you are also like many of us who don't always see our own potential. And sometimes it takes that outside perspective to say, why aren't you? Why aren't you owning this? Like, why aren't you doing that? Oh, yeah. Why not? I'm curious. Was that experience something that or maybe others along the line that taught you the importance of having people who have a big vision around you? And since then, have you cultivated?

Klaus Wiemer PhD (23:40.038)
Thank you.

Anya Smith (23:43.72)
a network of people who dream big and inspire you to do the same.

Klaus Wiemer PhD (23:48.47)
Absolutely. I have surrounded myself with people that I consider much smarter than me. I always love to walk into the room and be the dumbest guy in the room because I'm going to learn a lot and I'm going to meet some amazing people and I'm really humble. I don't mind walking up to somebody and saying, I think you're really cool. You're awesome. I don't know anything about what you're doing, but I want to learn. Can I follow you around? Can I be your puppy dog?

Anya Smith (24:11.487)
I'm sorry.

Klaus Wiemer PhD (24:15.35)
You know, all they can, it's kind of like dating. All they can do is say no, but if you don't ask, then you don't know, you know? And I think that's a huge problem today is that people don't have enough confidence in themselves. And also they don't have the mentors, you know, perhaps to push them along and say, you do have what it takes.

Anya Smith (24:15.475)
Night.

Anya Smith (24:38.611)
Right. Would you have any advice for people who are here now? Like, yes, that's where I'm at. I see what you're saying. I would love to be in a position where I have people who are mentoring me, but I don't know how to get there. Would you have any recommendations for somebody in that situation?

Klaus Wiemer PhD (24:51.374)
Pssst!

Absolutely. So if you're working in any field, whether it's banking, engineering, or healthcare, if you're lucky enough to be in an organization where you have met people, make sure that first of all you try to meet as many people within the organization as you can. And try to find people that are like-minded like you that are in positions above yourself so that you can start to share your ideas with them.

Anya Smith (25:12.264)
Right.

Klaus Wiemer PhD (25:21.77)
Because really what you want the leaders in your business or organization to see is that you're not just a number or you're not just here to fill this task, but you are a person as a whole. Because human nature is we kind of tend to file you in your lab, in your job, you know, that this is all you do, but all that does is create about that much depth, you know, for a person. I mean, you're deeper than a mud puddle. Come on. So, you know,

Anya Smith (25:40.613)
Yeah.

Anya Smith (25:48.275)
Hahaha!

Klaus Wiemer PhD (25:49.93)
So what's important is to make sure that you people understand that you have goals and aspirations. And so that happens from cultivating lots of really good relationships with these people. And it happens a lot when you cultivate and start talking to people that will really allow you to do pretty much anything, you know.

Anya Smith (26:14.571)
That's great advice. And if I can add to that, from my experience, again, this whole journey has started pretty recently, the whole entrepreneur side of things. And getting into it, I didn't have this community that so inspired me and no longer did I have a job to look at for that support. But at the same time, I found that we have the gift of online communities and resources like LinkedIn or other channels where you can go.

and start finding people again, who are doing something that inspires you or that you wanna learn from. So to anybody listening also, if you're looking for that inspiration, don't have it immediately visible to you in your environment, there are the resources like LinkedIn communities, groups that are focused on certain subjects and expertise areas where I truly believe, even if you don't feel confident right now with something, you can be curious and humble and ask for help and just to learn from others and build that confidence that way.

So you don't have to meet, to me sometimes it may seem intimidating, just show up, just show up confident. But what if you don't? Maybe it's again, starting with that perspective of I'm going to be curious. I'm going to learn, I'm going to try to connect and not be phased if somebody says no to your point, but I'm going to keep at it and that's how my confidence is going to form, not that I know everything right now, but I'm confident I can learn.

Klaus Wiemer PhD (27:33.238)
Yeah, very well said. I couldn't have said it any better. The thing too is that, you know, I have many times failed, you know, at certain things, but I never took it personal because I knew before I failed that I was trying as hard as I could. So I would try to find the positive on that. And, you know, it wasn't until I could step outside of myself and look at the problem.

Anya Smith (27:44.07)
Hmm.

Klaus Wiemer PhD (28:03.158)
that you really can start to learn. So again, it's very, and where I'm going with this is that if you're still developing the mindset, it's very easy to have somebody turn you down and this turns into a pity party and that becomes self-consuming. And pity parties, they're really not fun, they're not sexy. There's nothing cool about pity parties. It's an N of one, because nobody else cares. And...

Anya Smith (28:25.677)
Yeah.

Klaus Wiemer PhD (28:29.938)
You know, that's the thing you've got to be able to break that and go, well, you know, it's kind of like dating. I must've, you know, before my wife married me, I must've tried to meet as many people as I possibly could just because, and I thought I had a big L on my forehead, you know, but again, you just keep going and you just keep going.

Anya Smith (28:42.375)
Ha ha ha.

Anya Smith (28:46.833)
Mm.

Klaus Wiemer PhD (28:49.758)
And you try and then you will meet people. If you're, if you work in academics, for example, using Google scholar, looking up some of the authors that you really like a lot, reaching out to them. They love mentorship. If you're an engineer.

Anya Smith (28:57.01)
Yeah.

Klaus Wiemer PhD (29:04.658)
in work in the engineering or those kind of areas. Again, a lot of these people have published in the field. You know, you could use Google Scholar to look them up. You can look up through LinkedIn a lot of these people that you admire. And then really, I would start though within your own organization.

Anya Smith (29:10.653)
Yeah.

Anya Smith (29:17.255)
Yeah.

Anya Smith (29:21.885)
Right.

Klaus Wiemer PhD (29:22.898)
And if there aren't people in your organization that share your vision, then maybe it's time to look for another job. Don't, don't stay in something just because it's comfortable.

Anya Smith (29:35.635)
Hmm.

Klaus Wiemer PhD (29:35.722)
You need to always be pushing yourself and you need to be living in a somewhat uncomfortable state in your life or else you'll start to settle for mediocracy and you'll just start to settle for oh well that's good enough and what that's like cancer don't let that become part of your mantra.

Anya Smith (29:51.272)
Right.

Anya Smith (29:56.015)
Yeah, and that's powerful. So you mentioned not getting stagnant, keep growing. So I'm curious, what about in this new field? So now here you are, you're now working on a human IVF, but so much is just developing that space. How do you stay motivated and inspired to keep pushing yourself for innovation while it's a completely brand new field? So really, you're pushing yourself towards your own standards, right? There's not a lot of other things that maybe are pushing you because it's so new.

Klaus Wiemer PhD (30:22.638)
That's a great question because really all areas of technology are right on that very edge. We're constantly pushing ourselves because we just have so much more tools around us, whether it's large data, AI, or for now we've just collected a lot of data. So that comes from within. And again, if you're...

why did you become an embryologist or why did you become a structural engineer? Why did you do this? And that should be what's driving you forward. And, and, and you constant, and I think it's important to reinvent yourself as you process. So I don't know what version I'm on right now, but I'm nowhere near, you know, cowboy, you know, 1.0.

Back in 1970, whatever, you know, I'm not that guy anymore. You know, I'm now Klaus version, probably 25.0, you know, but again, if you're not rediscovering yourself, then you're going to get old. And let me tell you, getting old is not for the weak. You got to prepare yourself mentally. You don't want to be that old person that's sitting on the park bench with the pigeons on your shoulder. You want to be the old person in the doing yoga.

Anya Smith (31:10.419)
Right.

Anya Smith (31:16.275)
Love it.

Klaus Wiemer PhD (31:37.01)
at the park that's bringing everybody in to do yoga with you. That's who you want to be.

Anya Smith (31:41.715)
Right. Yeah. And could you share with us maybe some points of reinvention that you went through along your journey? Obviously, you've owned a business, you started your business, you owned a business, you transitioned. What were some of the major learnings from that?

Klaus Wiemer PhD (31:55.034)
Um, the reason why I always tried to transition to something else is because I started to get uncomfortable and bored. And for me, bored is a really bad thing. You know, it's, and I think bored is bad for a lot of us. We tend to become self-destructive from the process of we don't grow. We start just thinking inwardly. So for me.

in my field because we're blessed with lots of new challenges, you know, what I would constantly do was when I felt like my clinic was doing as best as it could, I would start to develop new technologies, come up with new ideas of doing things such that I would always bring in new technology into the laboratory. We're constantly pushing it. So I would collaborate with other researchers, you know, work with people like that. So again, if you work in another field,

Klaus Wiemer PhD (32:48.356)
of so-and-so on, you know, stability of a bridge, because you're an engineer. Well, that may not be necessarily your job, but start learning about it, reach out to the people that are really into all of that stuff so that you make those connections. And what it does is it creates a pathway for you to start to grow and to learn.

And then the other thing is too with things like Google Scholar and stuff like that are around today. You can really self teach in manners that really weren't around when I was, you know, starting my career.

Anya Smith (33:20.275)
Right. And Google Scholar for anybody that doesn't know, it's a database, let's say, of all the publications that are published in major journals, and you can search by like a topic, you can see how many publications they've published, how many citations they have, so you can educate yourself on so many topics and find like global innovators, PhDs, doctors, people who publish and people who are cited in that space. So just for reference there. And we haven't touched on IVF as much, but I wanna hear about this passion.

What are maybe some latest and greatest innovation ideas, topics that are happening in that space or anything you're excited to share with anybody who maybe is familiar or maybe less familiar with that space?

Klaus Wiemer PhD (34:00.822)
When I got into human IVF, it was like super cowboy from the standpoint of, we were almost figuring it out as we were going along because, you know, all of a sudden we had a pregnancy and the delivery in 1978. It taken years to get to that. It taken from 1965, 68, it took almost 15 years to have the first pregnancy. But now all of a sudden things started to change. And now...

Anya Smith (34:12.552)
Right.

Klaus Wiemer PhD (34:29.766)
All of a sudden we have something we can offer to patients that have never been able to offer before. So what happened was, as I watched IVF go from a surgical procedure where the embryos were transferred back to the patient after just two days to now, now the procedures are done in an office setting with just a little bit of Versat.

Anya Smith (34:47.209)
Wow.

Klaus Wiemer PhD (34:54.902)
It's done non-surgically, the egg retrievals are, and now we grow embryos for seven days because we've developed, and then we've also developed ways to directly inject the sperm into eggs because 50% of our patients are males. I mean, we forget that having a baby is a team sport and society tends to put more of the pressure on the female, on our female partners. But today, infertility...

issues account, men account for 50% of it, for a variety of reasons. But so I think that's, it's a law like that, that you just see so much technology that's driving it. In my field too, because we don't have any federal funding, that we can, we don't have to go there, but there is no federal funding in the United States for human embryo research.

Anya Smith (35:27.134)
Yeah.

Anya Smith (35:45.887)
Hahaha

Klaus Wiemer PhD (35:53.066)
And as a result of that, a lot of the technology and innovations are driven by private enterprise. And private enterprise tends to push a lot much faster than, say, the National Institute of Health or Center for Disease Control, where they were, say, funding stuff. So it's kind of a mixed blessing because the innovations that we've made in the United States and, well, really all over the world, a lot of it has been driven because there's really no support. It's done internally.

Anya Smith (36:19.791)
Interesting. Oh, it's interesting. And I'll share with the audience, one thing that Adam, my husband, asked you is around gender. If you don't mind me breaching the subject, we have, our family has three boys. And so we honestly are thinking, maybe, maybe if we, for some insane reason, decided to have another one, it would be amazing if we could have a girl. Right, and that's honestly, and I understand people have more issues around that, right? But.

To be honest, if we were to try to have another child, it would be through IVF probably to see if we could have a girl. And I know that for some people that could be a moral issue. So I'm curious, what are your thoughts around the moral aspect of using IVF? Anything you wanna share around that?

Klaus Wiemer PhD (37:03.786)
Yeah. So, you know, I believe in this and this is a little bit controversial, but I believe in the following. I am not very religious, but I do believe in a greater entity or being or something. And I feel like all the learnings that we have are here to help our fellow man. And so I personally

as long as it's ethically studied. And we review it from all different perspectives, from purgy, legal, we bring all the top brains together.

I'm a big believer in bringing technology in to help people have children. So I'm a big believer in using IVF, whether it's for gender, you know, to determine that you have the right gender. Why not? If you can, why not? Why, why would you have six kids in order to have a little boy or little girl? And

You could very easily use science to help you. I mean, we use science all the time to help us. Why is, why, why do we put these taboos on anything having to relate to fertility or birth? You know, we, we don't have those taboos on.

Anya Smith (38:19.711)
Right.

Klaus Wiemer PhD (38:22.054)
anything else. I mean, if your knee goes bad, you just get an artificial knee, right? But some people were saying, but the argument is, I've heard people say, well, if God wanted you to have a child, you would not have this infertility treatment issue. And I would say, well, if God wanted you to walk after 50, he wouldn't have invented artificial knees. You know, so, you know, what it's kind of hard, you know, so I'm a big believer in using technology, as long as it's very

Klaus Wiemer PhD (38:52.188)
They go through tons of internal review boards and things like that. So I'm a believer in using technology in any way that you can, whether it's to cure diseases, whether it's to stop disease transmission in families, or something as simple as identifying gender because you're also going to study all the other chromosomes and reduce your likelihood of having a miscarriage and things like that. So there's a lot of benefits that come from this.

Anya Smith (39:15.666)
Yeah.

Absolutely. I think it's good to be open-minded about the possibilities and think about things more broadly than just one perspective, right? Understand the risk and people's sides of the argument, but also make the right decision for you, right? Like not let it be a decision that's just, yeah.

Klaus Wiemer PhD (39:31.118)
And put yourself in others, put yourself in other people's spaces. So for example, you know, in certain cultures, genders are very important, you know, and we see this happening and people are saying, well, that shouldn't be important anymore. And we're like, you tell that family that this has been a tradition of theirs for 400 years, and you're going to tell them now we're going to stop this tradition. I, who am I to do that? You know, but if I can help you with technology, say complete your family because it's important.

Anya Smith (39:52.24)
Yeah.

Klaus Wiemer PhD (40:00.034)
to have that, that's an important part of your society. I'm not here to judge, I'm just here to help the best I can.

Anya Smith (40:07.023)
Yeah, and I can imagine that obviously it's not an easy process at all. Like anybody who has even heard about IVF, it's an emotionally, physically taxing process for parents, for moms, everybody involved. So it's not a lighthearted decision to say the least. And for me as a family, like our family, it would be a decision if we did decide to go that path, like just sharing my personal side, it's like we would rather have, you use IVF and have a girl or we don't have another child.

You know, so it could be just an aspect, like, is there an opportunity to enrich the world of another human being or maybe not, right? So, um, again, this is my personal thing. I'm okay and respect other people's opinions on it, but I appreciate your sharing, um, your perspective not to. And touching on sensitive subjects, we also, uh, talked about or mentioned that you're working for with fertility. Can you mention a little bit more about what is happening with the space of AI and your views again, on maybe controversial sides of that?

Klaus Wiemer PhD (40:39.83)
Right.

Klaus Wiemer PhD (41:01.442)
Well, I'm really very blessed to start working with a company called Fertility. They're based out of Tel Aviv. And I think for me, it's the perfect way to put the sprinkles on my professional cupcake. And the reason why I say that is because my whole career I've studied how embryos develop and what's the impact of how an embryo develops on its possibility of either being genetically normal or making a baby.

Anya Smith (41:15.74)
Ha ha.

Klaus Wiemer PhD (41:31.398)
And so, you know, I did a lot of predictive algorithms and a lot of database crunching, you know, during my professional career. But then when I saw how artificial intelligence could lend itself very well for that. And so for the audience, just as they understand in IVF, we look at embryos all the time, because we want to see how they grow from a one cell all the way up to about 250, 300 cells.

And we think that how they go from one cell to, you know, multis hundreds of cells, it makes a difference if the history makes a difference. And we used to take the embryos out of the incubators to look at it. That's not so good because we'd like taking the embryos out of the uterus to look at them. Well, they don't like that. So

You know, what's happened now with AI and new equipment is we've got microscopes with cameras in them that actually measure the development of the embryo during its entire time that it's in the incubator. And so for me, that was like, okay, that's going to be the beginning of the next revolution in IVF. And that is that we're going to collect all this data.

And then we're going to know, did this embryo make a baby? Exactly what happened. So for the listeners, if you have a lot of data and you have outcomes.

then you can apply mathematics and algorithms to that to go, okay, if an embryo does a certain thing, is it more likely to make a baby? It's just like if a person that's running runs a certain way, are they more likely to finish a marathon or not? So again, by using algorithms and stuff like that. So what Fertility has done is just develop this amazing platform.

Anya Smith (43:00.061)
Right.

Klaus Wiemer PhD (43:14.562)
that allows us to really look at how embryos develop so they can for once now really see.

all the other aspects that an embryo contributes to its overall health. And the reason why that is, is in our field right now, we do genetic testing on virtually all embryos because patients don't want to have miscarriages. So we remove a few cells and we study the DNA and that, and we determine is the embryo normal or not normal? Well, you would think that you'd have a 100% pregnancy rate with that, but...

Anya Smith (43:35.356)
Right?

Klaus Wiemer PhD (43:45.43)
But the issue is it's the moral equivalent of going, yeah, the car has an engine, but we don't know if there's gas in the car. You know, does a car have tires? Are there wheels on it? Whereas if we know that the car has an engine in it, but we can also look at the history of how that embryo develops, then we really see the full history. And for once now, we're able to really...

show embryologists how much more, how much data they can collect and also learn from the embryos. But the other side of it is it really increases transparency so patients can see their embryos. There's apps, you can see your embryos on the telephone. And it also, you know, you use your...

Anya Smith (44:17.796)
Yeah.

Anya Smith (44:28.55)
Amazing.

Klaus Wiemer PhD (44:33.478)
electronic medical records to communicate with the patient. So AI, to me, fertility has got this amazing product that will allow us to really increase the efficiencies in the lab, hopefully help people get pregnant sooner, increases transparency for patients because they can get more information as their embryos are growing in the laboratory and really trying to automate as much as we can, because we're kind of in a period.

in laboratory staffing that, like a lot of people, for every one of the biologists, there's four to five jobs. So we're facing unprecedented demands for IVF and yet we don't have, you know, the highly trained people to do this. So, you know, AI and automation and things like that are coming to the forefront in order to help us meet these demands and to provide, you know, some additional

Anya Smith (45:12.019)
Wow.

Klaus Wiemer PhD (45:33.332)
for embryologists and doctors to do this. And I think fertility is really at the forefront of doing all this. It's really an honor and pleasure to get to work with them.

Anya Smith (45:43.735)
It sounds incredible. I know when I was pregnant both times, I was looking at one little app that measured, like it's not AI at all, right? It's just like she giving you an estimate like what fruit size your baby is, right? And you're looking at that like five times a day. I can imagine any parent being really excited about this possibility too. And I love the focus on transparency. Are there any other things that fertility and AI innovators in space are thinking about in terms of concerns and risks and...

just being at the forefront of the ethics of this space.

Klaus Wiemer PhD (46:14.43)
Well, before I touch on that, really what Fertility and all the AI companies are really trying to do is allow patients to have better transparency and manage their expectations. So for once now, because we have a lot of data to sit across from a new patient and say, based on your characteristics, we think we're going to get.

this many number of eggs and you have this potential of getting pregnant. And that's very empowering or at the same time, you know, the woman comes in and the part, you and she and her partner come in and you're talking and you go, okay, well, unfortunately, the data says that this may not be the very best thing for you to do so.

Anya Smith (46:45.403)
Wow.

Klaus Wiemer PhD (47:01.322)
You know, again, you manage expectations. Do you want to spend the money to do this? Given the fact that your likelihoods are really low or, you know, there's other, there's a variety of options. So I think AI is really going to make decision making for patients upfront. Super empowering because they're going to have data right there versus a lot of patients try IVF once, twice, they fail. They go, wow, this isn't going to work. It's not for me. But meanwhile, they've spent a lot of money.

Anya Smith (47:03.026)
Bye.

Anya Smith (47:08.774)
Right.

Anya Smith (47:17.597)
Yeah.

Anya Smith (47:22.236)
Wow.

Anya Smith (47:28.157)
Yeah.

Klaus Wiemer PhD (47:30.954)
we can now, with very high levels of predictability, tell patients how well they're gonna do, which in turn really helps physicians a lot, and it helps doctors a lot. And the way we try to keep data clean is that we collect data from as many IBF centers as we can. So like, Fertility has data from literally IBF clinics on every continent, from all over the world. And so what that does is by, it creates an unbiasedness.

Anya Smith (47:39.753)
Wow.

Klaus Wiemer PhD (48:00.322)
And you constantly have data scientists that are cleaning up the data. And really, in our area, AI is really not going to make the final decision on what we do, but rather it's a tool to help us. It's just another wrench in our toolbox to help us pick the very best embryos. So I think clean data, data from all over the country, all over the world, I should say.

data that's constantly being purged to make sure that it is clean, that there are no, you know, permutations in the data. I think that's how we keep, that's how we're able to keep the data clean. You know, the implications of AI in our field are not as great as some others.

But we use AI all the time now. If you have a pathologist read your slides, I can promise you that AI is reading the slides for the pathologist at the same time that you are. And it's not replacing the physician, it just merely works with a physician and might see subtleties that your eye can't see.

Anya Smith (48:44.947)
Wow. Yeah.

Anya Smith (49:05.319)
It's a boost to the professional skills, right? It gives them enhanced abilities to give you better support. This is fascinating, Klaus. I'm so excited that you're sharing this because so much of this, I think unless you're actively maybe involved in this process in one shape or another, you probably don't know. You probably don't hear about it, but unless it becomes an issue, that becomes your whole life. So I'm glad that we're sharing this with people who may be less familiar, who maybe are in the process, are just curious about the possibility, and people who also hear about what's possible.

Klaus Wiemer PhD (49:09.918)
Thank you.

Anya Smith (49:34.855)
where your journey can start and where it takes you. Like you talked about, it's not where you start, it's where the journey takes you, and kind of embracing that. So thank you for sharing this incredible glimpse into this world.

Klaus Wiemer PhD (49:45.794)
Oh, this has been amazing. Thank you for allowing me to share my thoughts with everybody. This is an honor and a pleasure for me. Thank you.

Anya Smith (49:53.947)
Oh, and let me know, A, did I forget to mention anything that you wanted to share about? And if not, one thing I did want to ask, like this focus of this podcast is to kind of inspire people to pursue their own purpose, maybe find their entrepreneurial path of a purpose. Do you have any final words of wisdom or advice for people who are starting this journey or on this journey and are trying to find their way, their purpose?

Klaus Wiemer PhD (50:17.774)
Absolutely try as many things as you can don't be like I was and go into You know advanced graduate school thinking this is what I'm gonna do because I did myself an injustice if it hadn't been for a strong Figure who says no, you're not doing this. I'm gonna force you to open up your mind

Anya Smith (50:28.775)
Yeah.

Klaus Wiemer PhD (50:39.874)
You've got to constantly challenge yourself. Look at different stuff. Just don't say, I'm not interested in that. If it's kind of related to what you love, do it. If you're, for example, really love fishing, chances are you really love the outdoors. Maybe the outdoors is the kind of area that you should be going into. Again, exploring what you love is the best way to do that and reaching out to people who do things that you think you might like.

Anya Smith (51:09.117)
Mm-hmm.

Klaus Wiemer PhD (51:09.854)
is an amazing way to learn about stuff. Because see, I had a stereotypic vision of an IVF lab, for humans being super sterile, it's not gonna be fun to work in there. It's not like a cow IVF clinic. But I was absolutely wrong. Working in a human IVF lab, seeing all these beautiful embryos, seeing the look on these patients, their gratitude. But then when you go to your first party and you see the babies that you helped make.

That's when you go, whoa. But without challenging myself to do other things, I never would've gotten that exposure. So, you know, you've got to knock on doors, send out a lot of emails. Um, and think about the things that you love. Like what would you be willing to do for free?

Anya Smith (51:41.808)
Yeah.

Anya Smith (51:58.268)
Right.

Klaus Wiemer PhD (51:59.614)
And if that, if you can find something that you could be willing to do for free and get paid at it, you are a lucky individual, but that's what your goal should be because if you're fortunate to reach that goal, that's awesome. But if, even if you reach a little bit below that, you're still reaching something that you wouldn't have gotten if you hadn't set your standards really high and constantly challenge yourself. And listen, life.

is tough man if you don't skin your knees up a few times and get some scars you're standing on the sidelines and there's no dress rehearsals baby this is it

Anya Smith (52:37.287)
I love that. Thank you so much. I love all the wisdom, the real wisdom, and flexibility. And again, thank you so much for spending your time with us. We do have three rapid fire questions, and then we'll let you go to your amazing dinner, I'm sure. Okay. When you're ready, just the first thing that comes to mind, your short answer, first one is, let's see, what's a skill you have that people would not, excuse me, let me repeat that. What's a skill you have that people would be surprised to learn about?

Klaus Wiemer PhD (52:49.014)
Sure.

Klaus Wiemer PhD (53:09.483)
that I love to ski.

Anya Smith (53:11.315)
Ooh, okay. Personal mantra, do you have a personal mantra or quote that you live by?

Klaus Wiemer PhD (53:18.399)
Yeah, no worries.

Anya Smith (53:22.755)
Okay, amazing. Last but not least, in the positive context, going off track is.

Klaus Wiemer PhD (53:30.382)
Can you repeat that?

Anya Smith (53:31.811)
No problem. In the positive context, going off track is.

Klaus Wiemer PhD (53:39.774)
I'd probably be working in customer service at some store trying to learn how to deal with human nature. That would just be wild.

Anya Smith (53:51.387)
Okay. Well, that's it to all of our audience. I so appreciate you investing in yourself by taking the time to listen to this. I also want to just share that we are podcasts for purpose and I'm really excited that now we are opening up a support opportunity for this amazing nonprofit Ready to Empower, which empowers women worldwide. And if you want to help make the world a little bit better and donate, there will be some descriptions in the link of this episode and also in our podcast website as well.

So thank you for listening to this, helping make an impact in your life and hopefully making an impact for others. And as always, thank you so much for coming off track with us and Klaus, thank you so much for joining us on the adventure as well.

Klaus Wiemer PhD (54:33.154)
Thanks for having me, this was awesome.

Anya Smith (54:35.699)
It's been such a pleasure. Okay. Take care everyone. Bye

Klaus Wiemer PhD (54:38.318)
Thanks.