What Are the Top MISTAKES to AVOID? Insights from a Seasoned Entrepreneur - Andrew Swiler is RightOffTrack | Anya Smith

the word entrepreneur
specific vertical
or specific skill set or a specific job
when I mean
you and I are entrepreneurs
we do two things that are completely different
like I have nothing
and unfortunately
the VC or Silicon Valley has like perverted the word
entrepreneur
into being one thing
and that is you go start a company that has to be like
the most scalable company in the world
and you're gonna raise millions of dollars
but it's also created this image that has
disappeared
like people like my dad
or people that run in each fact company
or you know
people that that rent dumpsters to people
in their local towns that are millionaires
that have have built up these small companies
that aren't scalable at all
they're awful companies
based off of like what
Silicon Valley would consider
I think there's so many different ways to
entrepreneur
when I was starting in like 2,010 to 2,012
I wish that I had opened my horizons
more and thought more
because I think there were a lot more
opportunities than just the typical
Silicon Valley path that I sort of tried to follow
you know I was just trying to like launch myself into
go raise money
go build a big company
and it it it
wrong decision for me
hey friends
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right off track
enjoy this episode
going off track is taking a chance on yourself
following your polls of curiosity
it's making your own decisions
the most wonderful adventure
hey friends
get ready to dive into the dynamic world of HR tech
today we're chatting with Andrew Swiler
the Braves behind the acquisition of Lanteria
Andrew's journey is all about breaking the mold
exactly the texting without a techy background
from Silicon Valley to the challenges of global markets
to his story is fact lessons for any go getter
and Savvy's tragedies the whole time
are we shaping the HR tech landscape
thank you Anya
I'm super excited to talk to you
and I appreciate all the time to let me come on
oh my pleasure
here we are starting the New Year
and this is a very fitting conversation
about starting your entrepreneurial path
pivoting a lot
finding kind of your legging in that space
and can you share for our listeners
uh we talked about you acquiring HR company
but you have a long standing background in
entrepreneurship beforehand
how did you find that initial pull
towards the entrepreneurial direction
uh well there were two sort of polls I
I would say the first one was I
so I live in Barcelona
my wife and I moved from San Francisco
she's from Barcelona
we moved to Barcelona
I didn't speak the language
I couldn't get a job here
I basically moved here in
I think it was 2013
and had no other option but to start a company
and coincidentally
my wife at the same time was going to start a company
and I was as well
I started an e commerce company when I first moved here
I don't know if you remember fab.com
I was like a huge success in the US and then it blew up
um we tried to start a similar thing here in Spain
and ours blew up uh
due to just complete failure and ineptitude
uh on our end
we spent like 5 months trying to build it
um my partner ended up trying to build
something completely different than what we originally
envisioned and didn't really tell us
and the whole thing
fell apart but even before that
like I come from
my dad was an entrepreneur
my grandfather was not
for my great grandfather
I think actually
my family that I don't remember was a great
great great grandfather
moved from Lithuania and started an outpost
in Wisconsin
in a little town of Wisconsin for
for lumberjacks
selling them stuff
I don't know what you sold lumberjacks in 1860
in Wisconsin
but that same
that same place
turned into the store that my family ran up until my
grandfather retired in 1994
so I come from a long line of entrepreneurs um
I'm the only entrepreneur
of my brothers and sister but uh
I think we kinda have that inside
and I saw like my dad my whole life
you know start companies
start stores
start things
he was a pretty moderately successful
entrepreneur
so I always kinda had it inside of me
I would say
that's so beautiful
can you think of anything in it
it might be hard to discern because you're in it
that you got told as you were growing up that
inspired and supported the entrepreneurship of venue
um I wouldn't say something that was told to me
but like I most of what I remember
being with my dad was was uh
he's still alive
so we don't have to talk to him in the past
tense but hi dad
we spent a lot of time in his store
so like he used to actually start Christmas stores
like seasonal Christmas stores
and I would spend like my weekends over
basically my whole Christmas break was
I would go with my dad every day to a store
and I would work from like
9:00am to seven PM with him at the store
I would wrap
you know gift wrap
I would be I would ring people up
but that was from when I was like 7 years old
and I just remember like fondly
like spending time with him
like we would go get a coffee together and sit there
and that was like a lot of bonding time yes
well he would get a coffee
I would just be with him
I would get a hot chocolate
but that was a lot of like our bonding time
cause you know
you're in a store
so it wasn't always busy
so you spent a lot of time together
and so I would just watch that
like you didn't show me like
the ins and outs of accounting or anything like that
but you just saw like
your dad kinda sets his own thing up
you saw him start from zero
like going to these stores
where it was just an empty space
and he would build the whole thing
with these people that he would hire
and so I just saw it from an early age and
and he never really like
encouraged us or told us this was the way
but like you kind of see that
and I think
I really believe
knowing other people that I know that
that came from parents that had normal jobs
so to speak
that it is a different uh
perspective and it is a different lifestyle like you
if you don't live that when you're a kid
you don't know that that sort of world exists
that you can just build something from nothing
if your dad worked in an accounting firm
right absolutely
that's what I think about for my kids as well
that although it's a process and it's challenging
and I'm just starting
I really believe it will set an example for my kids
that they have other options
you know regardless of where it goes
that it's not just a journey that we take for ourselves
it's also an example for other people
you know our friends
our family that something else is possible
and here I'm going in
I'm still alive
yeah and it's a lesson in sales
like I always saw I mean
I think being an entrepreneur
you're always selling something
whatever it is investment
the business
the thing that you're selling
so you see how to sell
and like I try and like my kids are 6 and seven
I try and give them some ideas
like I've never forced them
I'm not like alright
let's go out and you know
sell this at your school
but I like drop things on them like they
we live in Barcelona and they speak English
and I was tell them
tell your buddies that tell your buddies from
parents that you'll charge them five bucks a week
and you'll only speak English to their kids
and see if they pay you for it
cause some of these parents spend like 50 $50
50 euros a week yeah
on school for on
on classes for their kids to learn English
I said like
see if you can find an alternative
and my kids think it's just funny
but I think just like planting those seeds of like hey
you could sell this
or you have a skill that you could sell yourself
I think they
they Learned something
I think it absorbs somewhere inside of them
I love that you know
it reminds me when I was growing up in Russia
um in middle school
I remember there was this company Avon
like they do little makeup yeah
and things like that
and you have a little it's
yeah so my dad
cause I wanted to
my dad signed up cause this is Russia
they don't care
then my dad signed up for me
and I would do this in middle school
I'd bring little magazines
and I would sell like a little makeup
and I thought it was so cool right
it's something very accessible
and it teaches you something
you have to think a little bit about that
but I had no you know
it wasn't like some deep strategy
to take over the world financially at that point
but it gets you dirty
you just curious
so like wherever your child's curious at that point
embrace has
support that
and I do look at it back
it's like it's still some kind of curiosity about it
just like trying something for yourself
starting something
wherever you are
just like there's no danger in it
you know so
find your child yeah
wherever they're at
and they're cast in
just encourage that
yeah and you
they might not become entrepreneurs
and I have a good friend from college that
he was always hustling
he was always out there with like some sort of thing
and he still has like some side projects
but he has he got like a great job at a
at a marketing consulting firm
and he makes a good salary
he just kind of gave up the
entrepreneurial world
but it's still part of who he is
and it makes him good at what he is in his job
but I think everyone you know
it's worth trying and kind of being in that world
I love that you say that
let's tackle that
so doesn't they think so important
people think that oh
there's such a risk about becoming an entrepreneur
and I agree
there are risks
but I think
you open yourself up to a different way of thinking
about your limits
about failure
about learning
and what it takes
about even selling right
you realize that selling is really about connections
right it's not just about like
you know you're
it's a negative thing about like money
and then it's really about how do you still trust
how do you come across
and how do you build
connection and you know
relay message in effective
like those are soft skills that like
are effective
and powerful
no matter what you decide to do
so as entrepreneur
you kind of
you prioritize things a little different
you look at the world and possibilities
a little bit different
so if you take that and you learn those skills
and you decide to go back or go into public
just imagine the possibilities
so to me like
entrepreneurship
when you unlock it inside you
it's not you know
matter if you do this for the rest of your life or not
it's just a gift that you have
and a mindset that you have that can be powerful
anywhere you go
and I I think uh
I mean the word entrepreneur
like people say entrepreneur as if it's a
specific vertical
or specific skill set or a specific job
when I mean
you and I are entrepreneurs
we do two things are completely different
like I have nothing to do
and unfortunately
the VC or Silicon Valley has like
perverted the word
entrepreneur
into being one thing
and that is
you go start a company that has to be like
the most scalable company in the world
and you're gonna raise millions of dollars
and for them
that serves because the I mean
you see like vcs
they need they need deal flow
so for them to build up that image of like Facebook and
and we need the next Facebook or Google
and you could be that person
that's a huge uh
benefit for them
but it's also created this image that has
disappeared
like people like my dad
or people that run an HFAC company
or you know
people that that rent
dumpsters to people
in their local towns that are millionaires
that have have built up these small companies
that aren't scaled
but all they're awful companies
based off of like what
Silicon Valley would consider
but have made great money for their family
like generational money
and now they're even selling these businesses
to private equity companies and other things
and I think there's so many different ways to be
entrepreneur
entrepreneur
that for me
when I was starting in like 2,010 to 2,012
I wish that I had opened my horizons
more and thought more
because I think there were a lot more
opportunities
than just the typical
Silicon Valley
path that I sort of tried to follow
and it was frankly
detrimental to me
and it would have been an easier
path to say hey
maybe starting
a service business
an accounting firm
a finance firm
something like that would be a better
starting point
and then from there you know
scaling up and learning
those skills
where you know
I was just trying to like
launch myself into
go raise money
go build a big company
and it it frankly
was the wrong
wrong decision for me
and can you share some of the learning
some of the wrong learning
so you mentioned
that starting this online business
I think there were a couple more businesses
that preceded
the business that you're at
so what were some of the key
learnings along the way
so if online business
the key thing was just I mean
know who you're starting a business with
and have like a
realistic uh
starting point
middle point
and end point
especially where we were like
we were living in Barcelona
there was really no funding
availability to us
and we were trying to build like
this huge scale
will company
was just really stupid
like it was a terrible
idea and I wish
I wish somebody had like
woken me up at the time
but it from there
I started my wife and I started this company
an eyewear company together
she had actually already started
while I was building that horribly
commerce company
and when that collapsed
she needed help
finding money
she needed money to like
build the molds and to get the product started
so she brought me in for that part
like the finance part
and I ended up helping
her raise money
but then I was sort of
beholden to the investors
because I had helped raise it
and they were expecting
that I was gonna be involved
and we built up the company uh
we did a decent job
building it like for
we didn't raise a lot of money
and we ended up getting it
to do about a half a million in sales
without bringing in any other capital um
we did like franchises
we franchise
to different countries
but like essentially we had
we just made a product
and then we opened a store in Barcelona
and tourists would come into our store
and buy our glasses
and then right
sometimes those tourists would say wow
I've never seen anything like this
cause it was like
they were flexible
you could change the lenses
it was pretty
unique um and
they would come
and they would say
can I bring this to Dubai
can I open the store in
we open the store in Abu Dhabi
we open the
store in Rome
we open the store in Mexico
and it was all
just people that
walked into our store
but we you know
at the time
like Facebook
ads were blowing up
and what I didn't see at the time was
there was this tail when
where we were trying to push this one
single product
that was pretty complicated to sell
and it really was only interesting in person
and there was all these other eyewear companies
blowing up around us
just spending money
on Facebook ads
and what would have probably
been smarter
on my end was to say
hey there's an
opportunity here
and I knew all of a sudden
I knew a lot about eyewear
how to produce it
how to build it
I could have gone to an eyewear
manufacturer
and said hey
let's put this idea on hold
that really isn't
going that well
and let's go all in on Facebook
ads and and
bringing a product that people are already looking for
but they can't find it
uh online and
build this presence
and I I didn't
have the capacity to
I guess what you would call is pivot
but to say to like
our partners
and our investors
like guys this
this idea really wasn't that good of an idea
it's going okay
but it's not going great
and there's a lot of friction
in the sale
why don't we put you know
the money we made and
invest into a new type of product
and go towards you know
what's working
which is scaling
these Facebook ads
which in retrospect
you can always think
is easy to see
but I didn't realize
we were just in the Wild West
at the time
you don't realize
you're in it
until you're
until later
you realize
wait a second
that was a gold rush
and we totally missed it
because we just didn't
we didn't have a product that was easy to sell
through Facebook
and we just frankly
didn't know how to exploit it
and around us
there were people just
exploiting the
the algorithm
on Facebook like crazy
and they became
millionaires
within a year
basically selling the same
you know similar
type of product to us wow
wow so and I
that was a couple of lessons there
and I love how
authentically
you share that and yeah
I don't sense
you know I sure
I sense a sense of learning and
you know that yes
I've become wiser
but I don't sense
any resentment
around it you know
maybe you're just a professional actor
and before we go
into your latest
acquisition
I'm curious
how did you approach
jumping this
so many people
just don't even start
because of the fear
element right
they like you know
this is too risky
I have the same thing
how did you
overcome that first
barrier of fear
to start even
the online business
or even to move to Barcelona
knowing that
it wouldn't be a place
where you could
do your traditional job
so I I mean
I worked in private
I actually I
I to be quite honest
I think I made more money
when I was 24 than
I've made when I was 35
or even almost 40
uh I I didn't care
like I really
if if I had
my wife really
supported me
she also comes from a culture
where it's like
failing isn't good
but she also came from just like
a family that was pretty
supportive of
you know artists
and doing things differently
and her father was
an entrepreneur as well um
I didn't care
if I ended up living
at my mother in law's house
or I didn't care
if I had to go back
I lived in my parents
house in 2000
when I was 28
I moved back to my parents
house for two months
just like because
I was in transit
like I was going
from one place to another
I lived my I didn't care
what people thought like I
I really didn't care like
and I didn't have a wife
that was like
well if we don't have this
we're not gonna pay this
we just lived
very modestly always
it was like
we just lived
to our means
even now we live
way below what
we could probably
afford to do
just because
you feel more
comfortable
like paying
less living
more modestly
not over extending
yourself that um
what's it called
lifestyle creep
that a lot of people get
uh and like
trying to keep up
with other people
like I guess
I'm fortunate
I live in like
I live in a
nice suburb
I would call it
of Barcelona
and people are well off
but nobody's here
like comparing each other
you don't go to school
and be like
oh what shoes
is that person
wearing it's like
nobody cares
and when I go home
and I see some of
my friends that
live in some
of these places
and that like
that's totally true
these like alpha
moms that like
look at it like
what's with her
what does she
do what yeah
and I'm like oh
that's downstairs
I just kind of
took myself out of
the mainstream
and threw myself
into this place
so I could see
why if you lived
like where I grew up
it would be hard
to make that adjustment
from a mortgage
insurance kids
where I just
didn't care
cause I was like well
I don't have
insurance right now
so hopefully
nothing bad happens
there's public
healthcare yeah
there's public
healthcare that does
that does help
you you lose
certain things around
like funding
or the market
but public healthcare definitely
I never have
worried about
healthcare so yeah
that's a positive thing
I love that
what I heard from
that is yes
it's you know
in a sense of
like you know
we gain money
a certain way
but also the support of
community right
if you have
people around you who
align to that
uh priority
system meaning
they're not
super obsessed
about money
but they're
supportive and they
encourage creativity
and exploration
that gives a sense
of connection
and for anybody listening
if you don't
think you have
that right now
I don't want
you to feel
disheartened
I know for my journey
I didn't say
have an entrepreneur
community around me
again my family
was mostly in
Russia and I
grew up here
as a foreign kid
but I found
a lot of that
community on LinkedIn
I found sometimes
when you just start
reaching out
like that's how
we met right
just social media
right exactly
how you met
it's like you
start forming
a community
when you start to
setting your intention
and exploring
the intention of gold
people will come up
so if you're
listening to this
and you're like
oh well I'm
not destined
for this because
I don't have that wife
that partner
that immediate
community that dad
that's just
you know that's
that's a it
could feel good
kind of excuse
but really we can
create those
communities
if we start
sharing our
attention now
with the world
for sure Twitter
changed for me
during the pandemic
I spent uh way
too much time on Twitter
but it was it
ended up being
a community I met
I ended up doing
what I do now
because I met
a lot of people
that were doing this
I knew people
that were doing
something called
search funds
I knew people
here in Spain
and I knew people in the US
but all of a sudden
I realized it
was all these
people doing
really interesting
alternative routes to
entrepreneurship
and that totally changed
things for me
seeing that
on Twitter and
interacting with
those people
and having the
chance to talk to them
and they did
push me more
because you're like wow
that's possible
like people
were buying
10 million dollar companies
or people were
starting these
um agencies
or you know
there was a lot of
possibilities
that you see that
if you don't
see it in person
you don't even know
it exists like
you don't know
that that's a
possibility
can you share
a little more
what what do
you mean by
like what is
this thing that
we don't know
exist like what
opened up for you
uh so I mean
for me I knew
I guess so we
acquired uh
Lanteria um
and you know
people think like
you acquire a company
that sounds
like a very
daunting task
but right um
really there's
this whole world of
whether called
search funds
that have been around
for decades
in you know
mostly in Stanford
Harvard and sort of
restricted circles
um and what they do
is you know
they look for
a small business that
it's like a private
equity fund
except for one
person and one
acquisition
they look for a business
they raise capital
to go out and search
for this business
and then when
they find the business
they go back
to their capital
partners and
the capital partners
put money in
and they you know
some of its debt
some of its equity
and they'll
acquire business
typically a search
fund is looking
for businesses
that are doing two
I would say
one to five
million in Ibiza
um maybe 10
to 20 million
in revenue um
and then you know
obviously software
is a little
bit different
than the type
the type of
business is
search funds
look for more
traditional
Main Street
businesses right
um what what
what I knew
is because I
was overseas
I needed a sort of
remote situation
but what I did
was I spent
hours and hours
kind of looking
learning uh
through these things
called SIMs
their confidential
information
memorandum which
are basically
just for sale
signs of of
companies and
like the pamphlet
that they give you
at like a uh
an open house
so they give you
all the details
of the company
you learn about
these markets
and I read things from
like I said
like dumpster
companies toilet
rental companies
HVAC companies
I read all these
just to like
learn the market
and what was out
there but I knew
I needed to
sort of work
on something
remotely and uh
through all
that reading
I just got to
know the market
and got to know
what was out there
so when you know
after reading
thousands of these
when a deal
like Lanteria
came to us I
saw how it was
so far outside
the other things
I was seeing
and allowed me
to move quickly
uh inside of there
but part of
that was seeing
you know uh
like I said
be spending a
lot of time on Twitter
talking to people
asking questions
putting things
out there like
you know you I
I would tweet
a lot about
like things
I was seeing pro
you know uh
Sims I was reading
is this normal
is this not normal
and people would
respond and
it was a little
ephemeral I think
there was a
a moment in
time in 2020
where a lot of people
were online
and it was kind
of new for a
lot of people
to share this much
information
because I think Twitter
before that
like was you know
people using it
for different
reasons and
I think people
became very open
at that time
and now it's
kind of turned
into whatever
it's kind of
turned into
over the last year
but it gave
you a lot of
information
and a lot of
access to people
that you would never
you would have
had to work
inside of a private
equity firm
to get this
information
or inside of
a startup for
information
you were just
giving away
for free to
whoever asked
wow it's beautiful
and I still
hope I have
the sense that
people are still
wanting to help
like if I think
if you approach
people in the right way
and you have
curiosity and
kind of like
people still
at their core
want to help
and give advice right
they feel good
about themselves
giving advice
to others so
my hope is although
here we are
sorry 2,024
and people have normalized
that to the
post pandemic
environment
that still people
will wanna help
if you ask and
find the right people
I think the
key is asking
the right questions
I get a lot of
people like
I'll go on a
podcast and
I'll get 50
LinkedIn messages
right afterwards
like hey I'd
love to ask you
some questions
and it's like
if I answer
if I talk to
all these people
I would never
do anything else
and I think
a lot of people don't
realize that
cause they've
never been on
the other side
it's the same
I tell people that
uh are like
applying for jobs
I would say
you have to
experience what
it's like being
on the other
side of the
table of being
the employer
getting all these
applications
I said then
you would realize
how to stand out
because you're
just thinking
like I'm gonna
send this over
maybe they'll
they'll respond
yeah you gotta
think like I
need to show
something specific
actionable at
with a real
question that
this person can ask
answer yeah
and then they can
get back to
you and I even
I've Learned
that for the
people that
I go up the ladder
to I'll send
messages to
people that
have huge funds
and I'll ask
just like a
very specific
question about
a very specific thing
and they'll
respond and then
I'll leave them
alone and then
I might have
another one
in two months
and they respond
and then I leave them alone
and eventually
that builds a
relationship
because they're like
who is this guy
and then you
become interested
you want to see
like what's
what's going on
and see their
journey so I
think people
also have to be
conscious of
how they ask things
it's a great
piece of advice
I love that
yes like no
expectations
but ask very
specifically
so show your
knowledge and that
you understand
the person's
expertise as well
as opposed to just
like hey hey
how was your day
I only have 10 million
things to do
so that's the worst
people send
me messages
on LinkedIn
all the time
and the first it's like
how are you
and like why
did you write
how are you like
you already
that's the only thing I see is how are you yeah
nope I don't know what the rest
yes yes and no
if it's if you're doing this right now
like don't take offense to this
like just learn
like we all have a start somewhere
and I'm sure I've written horrible messages
at some point or even now like
but I'm trying to learn and get better
and as long as you're there
then you are making progress
okay so yeah
we talked about um
you acquiring this company
so what drew you to the HR space
like why is this exciting
you've Learned a lot from your peers experience
you talked about having the self reflection
find like this is a viable thing
this is lucrative and you did a lot of research
what drew you now to this HR tech space
so the first thing that drew me to like
acquiring company was for me
this is like starting
it's like being an entrepreneur on second base
rather than being at home plate
uh starting with an Ono account
so it gives you the chance like you're
you've already leaped over a bunch of issues and I mean
what you said before that I don't have any like uh
I don't have any hard feelings
about things that I went through before
but I do have scars
of things that I didn't wanna go through again
yeah and so for me
this was a way to sort of avoid
those same pitfalls of the sort of 0 to 1 process
and now going from like 1 to 10 instead of 0 to 1
so that was sort of what drew me into this space
was just my own personal like
battle scars like okay
need to do this in a different way
uh the HR tech space
so this this company kind of fell to us because of uh I
I was just out there
always looking for different things
and these guys had reached out to me saying
we're trying to sell their
their expectations from evaluation perspective were not
realistic at the beginning
and I just kinda hung around
I would send them a message once in a while and say
like how things going
what's going on
and eventually uh
they got to a point where they just couldn't sell they
they couldn't find a
a good buyer for them
and it was a company that I mean
the other thing that people that get into
at least MySpace are they
they look for the perfect company
the search fund people
look for the perfect company in the perfect situation
and I frankly think that those don't exist
there's always gonna be hairy deals
there's always gonna be problems
and you gotta be willing to eat those problems
and deal with them
because that's how you're gonna get the best
deal possible
like if you're
if you're uh
you have to know like what you're
good at too
if you're really good at like
I just have a bunch of money in my pocket
and I can go find whatever I want
and then from there
we're just gonna put more money in
and it's gonna grow okay
that wasn't where I was coming from
I was coming from the place of
I needed to use my own skills
my own knowledge
to take something that wasn't working and
sort of was working and make it better
and so I think a lot of times people get confused
like what game they're playing
inside of entrepreneurship or inside of of
acquisition
you need to know
what is your strengths
what is the game that you're playing
and try and
put yourself in a position to play
best gaming
frankly right now
I'm not playing uh
in my best position
like I'm trying to raise funds
because I need to put people
that are better than me
because we're at the level where
now we need to start putting better people
into the the
into the seats they're in
and we need capital
in order to be able to do that
so that is a big challenge
and it ends up eating up a lot of my time
or instead of
you know being out there doing sales
or talking to our team or operations
I get stuck with this
uh and then HR
it was just
something that
when the deal came to us
I got really excited about HR
I think HR for me is
people talk about AI
they talk about robots
I think humans are still gonna be
the main driver
of any enterprise value
for companies
over the next
at least for our lifetime
I don't know what will happen
in our kids
lifetime or what
the changes will be
but I personally think humans
are the hardest thing to manage
the hardest thing to find
the hardest
resource for everyone
and so you need to have tools that make it
easy you know
as easy as possible to
manage people
and that gets me excited
and as like
an entrepreneur
I think my one piece of advice to other entrepreneurs
is always find something in the Monday
and or the day to day to get yourself excited
because if you think
you're just gonna be excited about the big sales
and the fundraise
and all the things like that
the day to day is such a grind
and there's so many UPS and downs and walls
you run into
that for me like I get
interested just by looking at how our software works
looking at like how
one of our clients
you know gives us some
feedback or doing
I do a podcast with HR
professionals
and just hearing
people talk about like
what they do in HR
which I know nothing about
I've never even worked in a large company before yeah
having a woman that runs
HR for like
a 5,000 person coming to explain to me what she does
I think it's interesting
and so you gotta
you gotta find the
interest in
like curiosity
inside the mundane otherwise
being an entrepreneur also
could be terrible because
you're gonna hit a wall
at some point
absolutely I heard this from um
Doctor Benjamin
Hardy recently
he talks about
instead of analyzing
yourself from like
where you are
to where you wanna be
and always comparing yourself
against your future self
compare yourself
towards your past self meaningly
we look back and reflect on
how have I grown
you know how
what have I Learned
and that gives you a much healthier
psychological
way to assess
yourself and to build resilience
because you can always say oh
I Learned something
I grew from this
versus the having this
constant delta
of where you're lacking
is a much bigger
strain on your psyche
I agree I think even
social media
could be good for people
if they use it for that
as a tool I
that's how I started
actually posting on Twitter
is I needed to
tell myself
things that I had done
well because
you don't see
the things you've done
you don't see your journey
a lot of times
you just see
like oh yeah
I did some things
then you write it down
and you share it with people
and you know
you you have to share it
without caring
if anyone pays
attention to it
like anything in social
media but for me
it was just an exercise of like
I did something
and I'm gonna tell people about it
and instead of kinda
like hiding
behind yourself
and that was a huge
change for me
to compare myself
cause then when you put it down on paper like oh
I did do some stuff
and I did learn things
and then you can apply those learnings
yeah I love it
and cause you're sharing out to the world again
there's this
and it's like
you're learning
other people are seeing those learnings around you
and you create this ripple effect
um you know
people supporting you
you get this inspiration
so I definitely
agree with that
that we have to share our learnings
share our challenge
share our questions of the world
um because we get a sense of self reflection
in that way
and also we attract
you know more resources
more support
more acknowledgement
you know we're appropriate
along our journey
and I'm curious
we talk about
search fund
uh what stage of
entrepreneurship
do you think that
that then you
that path is right
for an entrepreneur
is there a certain kind of maturity
experience level
capital level
that people should
consider this path
or should it be something that
you would recommend
people to search at
all levels of
entrepreneurship
I think so I mean
search funds are weird
because they're pretty much
exclusively NBA people
usually men
and usually NBA's
usually former
investment bankers
I do meet now
more women that are in search funds
it's a very weird world
uh like the specific
search fund world
but I think so what
what I did um
the search fund world
so you basically get money to go
search for the business
what a lot of people do like me
is they don't care about that part
like they're
they're like
I wanna buy a business
I wanna you know
start you know
I wanna get into
entrepreneurship this way
yeah I think
if you have a specific
skill set uh
or a knowledge of a certain market
um and you find a good business that you can buy
there's always money
to to have so I mean
even if you're 25 years old
and you know something
for example
I saw a business that was uh
Lego mini figures
that sold on Amazon
that was a business
I looked at
it was a fantastic
business actually
one of the few business
I got pretty close to buying um
the if you know
how the Lego
market works
and you're 25 years old
you find this business
that's doing
fewer than 7 million in sales
or something like that
you could probably find some investors
if you are just
scrappy enough to go find
family offices
look for angel investors
go out there
and scrape the internet
and find people's
emails or use
even tools like Apollo
um to find people
you can be scrapping
and see like
I know this market
here's why I put together a plan
I'm not a big fan of business plans
I think they're usually a waste time
but I think
I'm a big fan of
like investor
memos of like
sitting down
writing down like
what do I know
why is this market
interesting
what am I gonna
do differently
and why is this a good
investment hmm
I think that the
the world is out there
and I think there's uh
I don't know
if you've ever read
the 4 hour work week
from oh yes
I have to yeah
Tim Harrison's
like book the
The Advice of Titans
I'm paraphrasing it
like on my desk yeah
I like I I mean
a lot of people have talked to you
always say like
it's it's it's very
deceiving title uh
I think what
the most interesting
lesson I Learned from that book
when I was 25
when I read it
is you can really do anything
if you just try
like you can't become
like a brain
surgeon at 30
but if you wanna
email like Bill Clinton
and see if he
responds to you
just go try it
like today I emailed
my daughter
wanted tickets to this concert
and it's like
a super famous band
and we're going to the concert
and I just sent an email to their band
manager saying hey
can we come backstage
and meet them
when they're here
and he hasn't answered me yet
I don't know
if he'll answer
but who cares
like you send a nice email
you give him an hour
I love it and
and that's it
and that book
taught me that
it's like there's no blocker
if you know
you think you can do it
and you have some sort of
specific knowledge
you kind of put
yourself there
if you start from zero
and you just say like
well I'm now
I'm gonna go
buy a 50 million
dollar business
it might be
a little bit
difficult but there
there's always an avenue
there's always
something there
it might just be
your gritty
and you know
how to send
cold emails
like if you're good at that
you could probably
raise some money
and go buy a business
it's so interesting
I talked to
a lot of entrepreneurs
on the casket
and what I realize
especially from
entrepreneurs
who have like
this stand for
background and like
these spaces
where you initially think oh
that's where
entrepreneurs come from
and what I hear them talking about is
what was really important
is to humanize the
experience of being an entrepreneur
so I mean like
a lot of times
in those Mars
you have fight
you know CEOs
founders come
to speak to them
and share their
you know mishaps
and their learning
and just really
share the human
aspect like
we didn't have it
figured out
it was close to
failing like
it was kind of
like a miracle
that this work
he was like
oh you know what
like there's
a really human
story there
like this wasn't just like
somebody was like
oh I had it all
figured out
there's not like
this facade
that we often like
we see the facade
and not to say
it's intentional
but once you distance
yourself for this
like image of an
entrepreneur and
success like oh
there's something
different between
me as a human
and that person
as a human yeah
and the more you
realize that
there's actually
not that much different
that really
is just another
human being who like
struggled and failed
and Learned
and went for like
the more like
oh you know
like why can't I do that
and I'm not saying the
same result
is gonna follow
but you can
do a lot more
than you think
it's possible
if you don't
set these limits
around like
how different
and how you're lacking
than somebody else yeah
it's I mean
there is a lot of
survivorship bias
and entrepreneurship
where to get
yourself out of bed
and to get yourself
to actually do it
you look at these like
great stories of success
but it's just
littered with
horrible failures
along the way
of like that
little thing
that made it so
this one was
successful made it so
this one failed
but you got it
I mean that
there's always a
possibility
I mean there's a
whatever 90%
chance that
you're gonna fail
and if you get into it
knowing that
probability
and knowing
sort of what
the odds are
against you
at least you go in
with your eyes open
and not expecting
and I tell a
lot of people
that are like
especially in
search funds
people send me like
decks of things
and they're
always looking
at these like
crazy exits
and like these
these growth
opportunities
or even startup
companies and I
always say to him
like what if
what if things
don't go right
like what's your plan
if things don't go right
what's your plan
if you gotta
pay this debt
and you don't
have any cash
what's your plan
if you know
that sales guy
that you were hiring
uh doesn't work out
and to try and
think of that flip side
and you know
what are you gonna do
and in that case
and a lot of times
you don't know
what you're gonna do
but you just
kind of gotta
understand that
you have to
have that sort of
survivorship
inside of you
to keep pushing
like that it's all
most entrepreneurs
that I know
that when successful just
they don't give up
and they just
keep pushing
and eventually
it's gonna work
and sometimes
their stories are
pretty sad of people
I know that
you know spent
years or decades
working on something
that didn't work
and there's
other stories
where it took
them a decade
and then in year 12
all of a sudden
it just blew up
and so it's
it's a game of
survival sometimes
but it's fun
yeah who do you
think should
embrace like
the entrepreneur journey
is there you know
a right person
or is there
kind of you know
your own story
of why excuse me
why it's been
worth it for
you while you
decide after
you know learnings
after failures
after things didn't go
quite right
like that you
kept at it um
I would say
people that
one thing that makes me
kinda sad like I
I do know uh
some younger
people that
I've met Reese
not Reese but people
I know that
they complain
a lot uh about
the current
situation in
the world about like
difficult things
and I think
if your natural
tendency is
to complain
like first before
becoming an
entrepreneur
you need to like
solve that problem of
thinking about like
the most of
the things are
in your hands
uh you know
you can't have a
private jet
that's not in your hands
but you could
slowly improve
and kind of
move yourself
up the ladder
as long as you
kind of build
like realistic
expectations
realistic goals
and not trying
to say like
it's not fair
this guy's a
private jet
and he owns an island
and that's bullshit
and I should
you know I I
can't buy a
sandwich like
okay figure
out how to buy
the sandwich
and then you know
figure out how
to solve your
own problems
so for me one of
the key things is
like anyone
who wants to be
an entrepreneur
if you're like
natural tendency
to sort of complain
about things
it's not gonna work
like it's never gonna work
cause there's no one to
complain to
when you're an
entrepreneur
like nobody cares
you're on your own
and you're gonna
be complaining
to yourself
so I'd say that's like
the one type of
personality that
I would say
avoid entrepreneurship
uh in general
I'd say just
the type of
people that
I know that are
entrepreneurs
are people that like
they're either
so fixated on like
one thing that
like really
interest them
and those are
you know like
the Silicon
Valley types
like they just have
like this obsession
with something
or the other
people I know is
like I said
they just they're
very generous
they are interest
in a lot of things
and they find
interests and
ways to like
persevere in
any sort of
like mundane
circumstance
so I think if
you're a curious
person and you
wanna apply
that curiosity
to something
uh different
I think entrepreneurship
is an awesome
journey for
that because
you do get to
experience a
lot of different
uh a lot of
different markets
a lot of different
types of people
a lot of different
hats that you
get to wear
where if you're
in a business
or in a company
you don't get to do
those things
you're very
pigeonholed
into one thing
um so that's
one of the things
that I always
tell people
I love that
and you talk
about you know
people who have
this you know
maybe fanaticism
and passion
and then this other side
where maybe
the passion
isn't the leading thing
and I think
this is what
we talk about
when we first
sank is that
what caught me as
unique about
is that you're
not honestly
driven by like
this passion
project like
this wasn't
like your path
that you had
this passion
and the sense
of purpose and
you're gonna
change the world
and that's like
the business
they created
which is the
common story
that we hear um
what are your
thoughts about
like passion
and work and
how they align
and the importance of like
having this
co co purpose
as you go into this
entrepreneur
journey I so
I mentioned
you before I
I had a purpose
driven company
so after the Iowa
while we had
the Iowa company
we actually started
uh a recycled
clothing company
and you know
we were really into
sustainability
building things
that my wife is
my wife is obsessed
with like uh
buying local
product she
like is a big
believer in
autonomous uh
food growth
so like that you
only buy food
from where you live
because it's not
sustainable
to buy from
anywhere else
and so she she
kind of like
lives his life
so we built
this company
to do that and
it really opened my
eyes to like
most people
don't really
care that much
about any of this
at least right now
there there's
definitely a
subset of like
young people
but if you said
to the young
people hey this
T-shirt H m is $5
and ours is 30
they'd be like
am I really
gonna spend
30 bucks on this
I don't have
30 bucks so
they're gonna go
buy the other
H m shirt so
it opened my
eyes to certain
things there
as far as like
sustainability and
and you know
be having a
purpose and then
also I met some
entrepreneurs
that had started
other companies
and then their
second or third
company was
more of this
like passion
project and
what I've noticed is
that is like
if you wanna
do you know
the passion thing
or things that
change the world
you might get
lucky and that
you're one of
the entrepreneurs
that gets to
raise a lot
of money and build
these things
but from what
I've seen I
I worked at a clean
tech uh VC for
for a while
here in Spain
and what I saw
was the people
that had the
most success
were ones that
had already
been successful
and now they
they were able
to basically
say I'm gonna
work on what
I care about
the most and
and because it had
the success
I can work on
my passion project
even if it might
return less
money then maybe
that first or
second company
now I can work
on this even
if I tell the
invest like
this isn't gonna
be the same thing
as the other
one they'll
still know that
something will come
out of this
because they
they can believe in me
and I think
a lot of times
people jump
directly to like
I have to work
on something
that will change
the world or
be the greatest
thing when it
might have been
better for them
to start like
I said like
an accounting
you know an online
accounting firm
right to start
make 2 million
and then go off
and you know
work on that
sort of passion
project or even
it could be an NGO
or something
else that they
that they might want to
do afterwards
and for me my
passion is just
take control
uh my time like
that's my passion
is absolute
control of what I do
and my time
I don't wanna be
you know 45
or 50 years old
where I have to
make decisions
that I don't
get to make
I don't get to make
that decision
the decision
is based on
like money or
something else
that for me
is my ultimate
passion it's
just absolute
control of my life
and my time
um so I find passion
inside of that
and that also is
like my kids
you know doing
projects and
doing things that
that interest me
on the side
but it was an eye
opening experience
starting like
a sustainable
company for
that reason
cause I did meet some
entrepreneurs
similar to me
that kind of
gave me that
response like
you gotta wait
a little bit
like you need
to have some
success before
you jump into
the passion projects
I love that
I love that
though you have
a clear sense
like what you're
passionate about
that's not external
but really internal
and that seems
even more powerful
because then you
align to that
and they know that
the business
can be very
different and
how you go about
it but that
that sense of
clear certainty
like what why
you're doing this
is it important to you
in this driving
those decisions
appropriately
and we talk
a lot about
like finding
your purpose
do you have
any advice to
people about
how to find
your purpose
and should they even
seek that and
their entrepreneurial journey
that's a hard question
I I think it's important to find your purpose
I I think it changes a lot
I think a lot of times people
they wanna see their purpose for like their whole life
and I think
you might have a purpose for two or three years
and it's gonna change
I personally
what I've Learned is to be very flexible
uh on whatever I believe
and to be open to other people's uh
opinions or ideas um
that's something I've Learned a lot of the last
10 years has been
don't fix yourself into one journey
or one thought process um
and that's a lot from like the
from working sort of in finance and investment
like the best investors
they always say
are the people that will
they'll change their mind on a dime
like somebody brings them a better piece of information
or something that
that completely contradicts them
and the best investor like
that's right
I'm gonna like
people will change billions of dollars in
investment because just one person came to them
gave them a better argument
they said okay
I'm gonna completely change my whole portfolio
because of that
and I think oftentimes
especially now
you see people on social media that are so like
fixated in their own world
uh that you do need to be open to different paths
and different passions and say
it's okay if your passion
today is being obsessed with your own time
and tomorrow it's you know
sustainable
vegetarian gardening
it's okay to change like yeah
you're allowed to change
you don't have to be the same person for 100 years
right I love that
because we get so stuck in this
fixed mindset that as if like
we grow up and that's it
like that's it
you're an adult now
and now you have this job
and you have this responsibility
nothing changes
like stay to that
yeah until you hopefully retire
and hopefully have enough money to retire
and then good luck
ha ha as opposed to like
you're constantly changing
even on our DNA
cellular level
our body molecules are changing
right let's say
like yourselves
every 7 years
right we're new
like you're literally a new
physical body is appearing
but yet we have the sense like
you have to be the same person like
so I love that be like us
and I was in the research science space
right before I met at working in that size
like be a scientist
experiment like
have hypothesis of what's possible
test things out
and if something comes about
that's a better idea
they oh now I realize it's like
that's beautiful
if you look back at your ideas
like that was wrong
amazing that's like a beautiful power
as opposed to a weakness
but you know what
I've changed
yeah fantastic
and you don't
you don't have to be fixed
I I will say
the one thing that go
I go against in this
and I've made this mistake
is I do have friends
and I do have colleagues that have been very successful
in focusing
on one market
or one thing
uh they've changed
like personally and
and change the way they do it
but they've been able to compound
from like being 27
and that's saying the same job
but like staying in the same market
of the same area
yeah and finding ways to find
opportunities inside of there
whether it's you know
I have friends that are focused on real estate
and they're hyper focused on like
this type of real estate
in this place
in this way
and they have so much knowledge and so many connections
that it really does
compound for them
where I would say
a lot of times
us as entrepreneurs we get
we have a tendency to go after like shiny
shiny objects
or the grass is always greener
yes and you could miss
opportunities and I
I've been guilt
I've jumped around to a lot of different things
and sometimes I regret
and sometimes no
it does make life more interesting
uh but I can see
that the path is way easier
for a lot of my friends that did just
keep building
on top of those things
but they they also changed as people
and as you know
in other ways
but I I will say
there is something to be said for
compounding inside of one market and
you know letting
letting the snowball
roll down the hill for you
absolutely and I want to wrap up and ask this question
so here we are
starting 2,024
and so this is gonna come around
right around the same time
you mentioned previously
observing trends
right realizing
this is happening
sometimes like 20
oh you know
high in Santa's 2020
are there any trends that you were excited about
2,024 that maybe
entrepreneurs should be mindful of
I mean the obvious one is
people talk about like AI
um we are pretty
conscious of that
especially in HR
I mean I think there's gonna be a lot of
changes in like
how our software works
how we do like
my CTO and I were talking about it yesterday um
trying to think any trends that I can think of I mean
I I do think that a lot of
remedial tasks that were done before by people
or you might have hired a VA in the Philippines to do
um I think a lot of those are gonna become pretty uh
I wouldn't say they're gonna become extinct
but I think that there's gonna be
a lot of alternatives that are very easy to use
tools that are gonna come out over the next year or so
um I would say probably three years
I think the one key thing in like
I try and teach my kids of any trend over anything
is the ability to critically think and to be creative
I don't think that's ever gonna go away
I think that'll be a value uh
for decades to come
and that was
that's what I always kind of give people
like if people ask me about trends and like
just try and figure out
anyone that can figure out ways to help people
be critical thinkers and to be creative uh
is gonna be the most important
tools that are out there in the future I
I wish I had a better answer for like immediate future
but I I honestly I do
I see a lot of things that come to me and
I don't know where anything's really going right now
feels like we have a lot of sand moving underneath us
and I'm not really sure
where it's gonna shake out over the next year or so
it's perfect
and for for your company Ontario
what are like big aspirations for 2,024
and like maybe something like that
what I mean
my immediate goal is to raise money
like we're trying to raise a million dollars um
I yeah our other goal is to grow our AR 50%
um and another area that I'm kind of exploring is
we would like to
uh probably acquire
uh another company
whether for geographic reasons to go globally
or even merge with another company that's uh
something we're exploring to is
is to you know
find another company in another region
that we might be able to merge with and you know
inorganically grow our
grow our revenue
you know double our revenue
even triple it
um so I mean that's
that's kind of my major goal is
keep my eye out for potential inorganic growth things
but especially right now
close this financing so I can
because I put the right people in the right seats
because I'm currently in too many seats
and need to be removed from them
so those are
those are sales rules
so if you're
if you're in sales or know somebody who's a salesman
that's what you're looking for
is that right sales
uh we're looking for sales people
and we're looking for money
that's really our
yeah our two
two critical
uh needs at this point
beautiful so if you're listening to this
um I will add some links for your LinkedIn
let me know how people should find you
connect if you
is it best to do LinkedIn or better other way
LinkedIn or Twitter
that's the only place
I'm not really on Instagram
I'm not on Facebook
I don't have TikTok
I do have TikTok
I don't use it but I
I usually I'm on Twitter or LinkedIn
I I don't really do much else
besides those two things on on the internet cool
we'll add those
so reach out again
if you have thoughtful
concise questions or if you are looking to
contribute to this amazing company
thousand twenty four I want to
thank you so much for being so generous of your time
are there any final thoughts you have
the things you want to share
entrepreneurs who are starting this path
who are learning on this path
before we go into a rapid fire questions
no I just tell them I would do it
I would go in with your eyes open and know
like I said
you know the odds are stacked against you
but you're gonna do it anyways
knowing that the odds are stacked
it's like going to the casino
you yeah you know
you're not gonna win
but you're gonna do it anyways
so take the take the leap
absolutely and you're gonna learn something
from your experience that you were talking about
every time you Learned something right
and then you got curious and you diversified
and so love that okay
rapid fire questions
first one whenever you're ready
ready ready cool
one piece of advice you'd give to younger self
starting out in business
to my younger self starting out in business
meet as many people as you can
early on in life before you have kids or a wife
and try and build relationships with them
that's so funny okay
I love that to give anybody hope
I'm a mom working remotely doing this
and I've met so many incredible people around the world
so if you've passed that
if you pass that bridge no
it's not a game over for you okay
no no it's not game over
but you asked for an early
if I was younger then yes yes yes
that's very fair fair
very fair fair okay
what's the most unexpected lesson you've Learned
from living in a different country
uh most unexpected lesson that um
the way we do things in America isn't necessarily
the right way and the best way to do things
I would say
and my dad my dad
he I remember the first time he came here
he asked my wife
he was like
what what do people think of Americans here
and my wife like started to answer he's like
but they think we're rich right
we got a lot of money right
and she was like
no they think you guys are assholes
he was like what
you know there are certain themes that come around
globally about people's persona
so yeah I can
I can relate to that okay
last but not least
in the positive sense
going off track is
in the president's going off track is um
the hardest
it it's probably the hardest decision
but the most fulfilling
if you want to experience sort of a different life
I love it I would say beautiful
I love it no
that was great
and I thank you so much for time into our audience
I hope you find some inspiration
wherever you are on your entrepreneur journey
if you learn something new about a different space
maybe have a different perspective
about how you should be approaching entrepreneurship
your whole purpose um
change and this topic
so wherever you are
I'm wishing you an incredible start to 2,024
keep exploring
keep changing
keep growing
and I hope you have the most fulfilling
journey possible
and as always
let's take over the world together
right off track
thank you so much Andrew
this is a pleasure
thank you Anya
I appreciate it take care
like people say entrepreneur as if it's like a
that for me
Frank was the wrong
Anya Smith here
a standout and software solutions
in making bold moves in SAS business
so grab a seat as we explore Andrew's unique path
Andrew so excited to have you here