Podcast Lessons From 400 Episodes with Matt Cundill

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He has been in radio for many, many, many moons. He was, Meng being

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a program director. We're talking 25 plus years, and

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he's got into podcasting back in 2016. You can find

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him on the podcast super fans. You can find him on You May

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Also Like. But today, we're talking about the Sound Off podcast because he

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just put out episode 400.

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Matt Bundle. Bundle. Matt Bundle. Very well done. It was so good till

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the end. Yeah.

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Matt Kundl, thanks so much for coming on the show. Thanks for having me.

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400 episodes. When you started this, did you picture this

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going on for 400 episodes? No. I

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didn't really know. I just wanted to get the first one done. And it took

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me 11 hours to actually, it took me yeah. It took me

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about 8 to 11 hours somewhere in there to get about 23 minutes of audio

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done. And the interview was done over the telephone, and I

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had, a piece of equipment left over from a radio station

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to allow me to record the caller. And we had

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to figure out what to do with it next. And from that, that was episode

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1. I was just hoping to get through 1. And then once I did 1,

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I did another. That's really the best strategy. I

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I know some people that start off. They're like, I'm gonna do 10 or I'm

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gonna do a 100 and see what it does. They kinda put a a stake

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in the ground like, okay. We'll we'll take our our pulse at, you know, episode

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20 or something like that. Did you have anything like that or just literally, like,

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we'll start with 1 and see if we can make it to 2? I think

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it's kinda like when you're, you know, 8 years old and you get

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a lighter, and then you start a fire in the back alley, and

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then you throw some crud on it. And that's what I thought I would do.

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I said, well, what happens if we do this, and what happens if we add

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something else, and what happens if we try it this way? I had a lot

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of time on my hands. I was restructured out of radio in 2014. You

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know, 10th anniversary of that is actually coming up. And,

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you know, I did some radio consulting for a bit, and, you know,

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that that space is very full, especially with, you know, people like, you know,

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James Cridland, who was doing it at the time, Jacobs Media, Valerie

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Geller, a lot of radio consultants out there. I did pick up

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some some radio work in Canada, and I went in

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20 16 down to the Conclave in Minneapolis, which is a gathering of

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Midwestern radio people. But I just started a podcast, and I

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said, you know, I really like what I see here. It's great

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to see, Midwestern Radio folk, and if I could only bottle this and

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take this home. Well, I did, and I took it home, and I thought

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we could do a podcast talking about some of the things that were at a

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radio conference every week. So from that, the podcast

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was born. Excellent. And I know you brought a

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list from 400 episodes. You have 12 things we can learn

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from or things you've learned in, those 400 episodes. So

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let's start off with number 1. Can't do it alone.

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So, you know, I got through those first few episodes. I

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sounded good, but it didn't sound good. It you know,

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when I played it in the car, it didn't sound full. It didn't sound like

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it didn't sound like the radio really. And when it came I don't really

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know enough about mixing. I didn't have a lot of experience, you know, cutting

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and, you know, cutting audio together. I hadn't done that as a program director. That's

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something that my producer had done. So I called the producer at the radio station

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that I where I was working before, and I said, I need some help.

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And I want it to sound a particular way, and I want it to sound

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full, and I wanna listen to it in the car like it's the radio. And,

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from there, since episode 4, Evan has been producing

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every episode of the Sound About podcast since. Yeah. I know. One of

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the things I really appreciated is I was on episode 400.

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And the minute I started listening to it, I was like, oh, Matt has

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an editor because I am an and a machine.

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And I listened to it 3 or 4 minutes and had not said and,

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yet and I was like, oh, he has an editor. This is so beautiful, which

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makes me wanna share it more for anyone that ever interviews me in in the

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future. So anybody else on your team that you you go, wow. I don't know

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if if they weren't here, this would have been a lot harder?

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Yeah. We added people on as we went. So I did all the editing

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through episode 265, and then I realized I'm busy. I'm

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actually helping people with other podcasts now, and so I started to let

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other people edit it from that point. So 265 forward, other

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people, were editing it. But as the podcast grew, we started to get

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into videos, so we hired Christie. Christie does the video,

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and, as well, you know, Aidan does the editing, and Evan does the

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production. So it's a team of 3 really that, that attack this

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every week. Excellent. Well,

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tip number 2. Yes. SoundCloud is a terrible place to

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host your podcast. And, you know, people are I

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said we're gonna throw some crud on it, and it's, oh, you know, this fire

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is not burning properly. Why is this episode have 5,000

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downloads, and then this one only has 500, and why does this one

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have 50? And Mark Ramsey, who's also a radio consultant who was a guest on

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the show said, well, SoundCloud's a horrible place, and it's all full of bots. And

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I said, really? I didn't know that. And so we had to get it

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out of there as as quickly as possible. Run like

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Mexican water through a Canadian tourist.

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Absolutely. And I know I was actually at an event this week, and

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somebody brought up SoundCloud. And I go, just let me give you one stat. I

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go, Apple changed their categories back in 2017,

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and SoundCloud hasn't updated them yet. I go, that's, you know, 7 plus years

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at this point. Is that really where you wanna host your stuff? So, yeah, great

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lesson. What's number 3? So this one came from going to

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podcast movement. And I should preface that 2 weeks after I went to the Conclave,

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in 2016, I went to Podcast Movement, and that's really where I got the bug.

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I said, oh, there's a whole industry here. There's a guy named Dave Jackson. He's

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got a school of podcasting, and and stuff is happening, and people have

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microphones. But it was a year later in

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Anaheim that Aaron Monke from Lore was talking about the power of

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releasing episodes consistently. And, you know,

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I spent some time saying, okay, I'm gonna start to do that. And when I

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started to release episodes consistently, the downloads

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went up by 20% because people knew when to expect it. And

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shame on me for not knowing this, but it also taught me a lesson about

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radio. That your favorite radio station, your favorite host is starting at

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a particular time every day. At 6 AM, you're probably getting the news, sports,

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weather. You know that traffic and weather together, traffic on the once, whatever it

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is, radio conditions people to into into their

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habits. And as podcasters, I know we like to sit back and go, oh, well,

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I can just release this whenever. Well, your audience, you wanna be part of

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their media ecosystem. You do have to be be consistent.

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And I think Aaron told a story about people waiting around the campfire for the

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show to be downloaded, and then just waiting 3, 2, 1, and it comes down

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at a particular time. Once you can be consistent, you can really

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own a piece of someone's media's pie.

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Yeah. You become part of their routine. I know I have shows that

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I listen to that come out on Friday. And by 2, 3

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o'clock, there it is. And I'm like, okay. Cool. I know what I'm doing tonight.

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So what are your thoughts on seasons? Yeah.

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I'm kinda split on seasons. So I'm a no for seasons,

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because I have the ability to get ahead. So recently, I went to Spain. I

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don't wanna be recording people while I'm in Spain. So I'll I

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did I do about 6 or 7 of them, and then I disappear for 6,

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7 weeks, you know, into the vortex of vermouth

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wine, Tito de Verano, and and tapas. But the episodes are there,

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and we will put them out consistently. But, you know, I don't I try not

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to knock anybody who wants to take a break. I think a lot of people

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do need to take a break in some capacity. But one of the things

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that that they make a mistake on is that they don't tell their listener

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when they're coming back, and they don't tell anybody who might find their podcast.

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Oh, this person hasn't released an episode in 6 weeks. I think you have to

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leave some messages behind about when you're coming back, and you really do have to

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stick to it. And I think a lot of people think, oh, I'm gonna take

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a break. I'm not gonna do anything. But you should probably stay active on your

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social media just to say, hey. Coming up in September, we're coming back with 3

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brand new episodes, and I wanna tell you about it. There's ways to keep your

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audience engaged and as well take a break at the same time.

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Yeah. Absolutely. Alright. Lesson number 4. I got

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a sponsor after episode 20. Wow. And, yeah, it was

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great. And so but I there was a problem with it. And the

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problem with the sponsor was it was a Canadian company, but half the audience

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is American. And I thought, well, it's kinda like when I listen to a

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US based podcast and they're selling me US Stamps, and I don't

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need to buy US Stamps. And so

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it's kind of a waste of time, and so dynamic audio

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insertion or dynamic ad insertion became the solution to that. So

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and at the same time, it was an excuse to get off SoundCloud. So we

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moved it over to Art 19, and we started to use

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their dynamic ad insertion. And

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what happened after that was a year later, it was

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the same ad spot was sold to an American company. So

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now I was being paid twice with 2 sponsors for the same ad spot.

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Kinda love that. Yeah. It was great. So the American audience

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got PromoSuite, which is a software for,

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radio stations. And in Canada, it was a data company,

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Nlogic, who wanted to sell data to Canadian radio stations. I thought,

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wow, this this dynamic ad insertion is great. Now did you go

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find the sponsor? Did they come and find you? They called me, and

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and they found me. And then the other time it was at, you know, the

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Conclave again, another radio conference that I'd gone to

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again. And they liked the podcast and wanted to be a part of

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it, and we found a way for them to be a part of it too.

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Nice. Yeah. Do you remember without, like, making you, like

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would you consider your audience small, medium, large at that point?

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Or or you know, because 20 episodes in is not not a

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lot. Yeah. So, I mean, I always looked at the

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show as being consistently around 2,000 some odd downloads after

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the 1st year, and it's always been that way. It's it's a radio audience.

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Right. And has has, you know, been some we've gotten

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to 3,000, from time to time.

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And we actually and all of our our metrics are, by the way,

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published, o p 3. So if you went to o p 3, you can go

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and see what the what the downloads are. I was gonna say we were about

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the same boat and then Apple, you know, the the hair the

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Apple haircut kinda took care of some of that. So

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Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, over the years, by the way, there have been a

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few haircuts. So one of the ones was just moving simply from SoundCloud

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to r 19 that caused a little bit of a haircut. Oh, yeah. You know,

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because I have a, a background working as a program director, I've been

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working with numbers for years and look at the numbers and saying that's the audience

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and then being able to build on those numbers.

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So I came really pre built for this. And I

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think, you know, when when I got let go from radio, I was like, what

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am I gonna do? What am I good for? What you know, and it

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turns out that I was more than my resume, and then once I found out,

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oh, there's metrics here in podcasting. Oh, look at these numbers. Oh,

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there's user agent. There's the there's the downloads. There's the

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geography. Oh, this is I can figure this out. Because I've been working

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with ratings data for for so long that, you know, it just

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came second nature to me to figure out what to do. Nice.

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Lesson number 5. So going back to the beginning when I said that

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I wanted it to sound like radio Yeah. Yeah. That's a big mistake.

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That's no good. Come on. What's wrong with that? You know? Exactly. So

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if you listen to the early episodes, and I'll never take them down because I

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think they're a great moment in time. But, you know, there's a lot of talking

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at the audience. There's it's a little bit loud.

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I was even saying things, you know, talking about podcasting to

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radio people and saying it's a headphone experience, and you

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wanna talk to the audience and not at the audience. And even

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though I was saying it, I still didn't have it in full practice. So

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it was Jeff Schmidt who works at Wondery. He does the production

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for a lot of the Wondery podcasts, and he took me aside nicely.

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I think we were in a bar in Philadelphia at Podcast Movement. He said, you

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know, it's just too loud, and it's it's over compressed, and it's a it's

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a difficult listen. And so I had to sit down again with my

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producer who only knows radio anyway, and we said, okay. We need to make this

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sound like a real podcast. We need to look at what the

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standards are for putting out a good podcast, normalizing

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somewhere around minus 3, making sure the lofts are at about, you know, minus 16,

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minus 15, minus 14 in that area. Yeah. And making sure that it's a

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good headphone experience, for everybody. Excellent.

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Number 7. Artwork really matters.

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Yeah. So a couple things about artwork. And I'm, you know, still to this day

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playing with it. But, you know, having artwork for,

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you know, for your show, for each episode, really

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matters. And it's about people. There's a people podcast and, you know,

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put the picture of the guest up there. And I think as Spotify

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and Amazon Music began to

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include that, and now Apple's including it as well, it's more important than ever to

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to make it look like you've got a variety of guests, to make it look

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colorful, to make it look like when you're scrolling. When I see,

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you know, just show artwork for every episode, it tells me in the back of

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my head it's every episode is gonna sound the same. Now I know that it's

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that's not true. Right. But visually, it's telling me I think every episode

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is gonna sound the same. The other the other one was just about

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show artwork. I don't know how we got here, but

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at some point, everything had a microphone in it. And I

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I all I can think about is the only reason why artwork

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has a microphone in it is in it is because that's what we tell

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people at Fiverr, make me podcast artwork. And they don't know anything

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about podcast, but they know it makes a microphone. So here's your microphone with your

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artwork. And, I mean, you don't see Steven

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Spielberg putting a movie reel in the bottom corner of his

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movie posters. So I don't know why as podcasters, there's microphones in

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there. I had a microphone in it. I I took it out, and I've been

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playing a little bit with the artwork ever since. And, you know, when people say

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what makes good artwork, I think think of the Fleetwood Mac album cover, think of

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the Boston album cover, think of vinyl. Maybe a

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lot of people can't do that because they're not old enough to to know what

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that era was like. But other people, I think, also make the mistake of thinking

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that it's like a book, and they put too much writing on it. And,

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you know, it's a 57 by 57 thumbnail in the phone, so I

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don't know what writing you're expecting me to to be able to read. I've I

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just started wearing glasses, so it's just not gonna be

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possible. Yeah. Is that really as small as it gets? 57 by

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57? On a phone. Oh, man. That's ridiculous. Yeah.

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Because the problem is we're designing it when it's 3,000 by 3,000, which is the

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size of your head. And then yeah. And I always love the fact

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that, you know, they put their name at the bottom and all this other stuff.

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And, like, can we really what you need is the name of the show in

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giant letters with maybe some sort of graphic that helps explain what

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it is. So, yeah, I, and please don't do it in crayon.

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If if your show artwork looks and that's just a kid's, you know, show.

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But if your artwork looks like it was done in Microsoft Paint, it's

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if if your artwork is done in CRAN, then does that

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mean the rest of the podcast is done in CRAN? I'm like, I just don't

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do that, please. Number 8. So this

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actually goes back to the podcast that we recently did, and it really comes to

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video. And I've been really trying hard over the last, you know, 8

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months to to really sort of come up with, you know, a standard answer for

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video. And I think the answer is do video if you can, but you don't

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have to do video. I like doing video

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now that I've started to do it and get a little bit of a workflow.

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But, you know, I'm a Gen X radio person. We did not have cameras in

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the control room. We were never comfortable with cameras. That was sort of across the

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hall for the people who did TV. And and look at me now. I'm on

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your show, and there's a camera. And I'm I'm getting used to it. So

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it's become it's just one of these things one of these habits you have to

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learn, to get into it. But, you know, really to what you said, I'm

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gonna I'm really what I think is really what you said is that if you

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can do it, great. If you can't do it, you don't have to sell the

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whole farm just because it's, you know, not in your wheelhouse. Yeah.

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I just the thing that drives me nuts is when I hear somebody go, I

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was gonna start a podcast, and I'll be like, what was your show about? And

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they'll have this great unique idea, and they're like, yeah. I just don't wanna do

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video. I'm like, you don't have to do video. If you want to, you got

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the time and the budget, by all means, do it. But, lesson number

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10. Transcription. I I think it's still a

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pain. I have it listed as transcriptions, an

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unnecessary pain in the ass. Mhmm. It just takes

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time to go through it and to make sure that it's right. Probably of all

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the jobs that I have to do to get a podcast ready to go,

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transcription's the one that I load the most. That's the one where I have to

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just go through just to make sure all the words are right, the names are

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spelled right, and it really does reflect what it is. And, you know, of

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of 400 episodes, I've had one request for a

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transcription. It was before I was doing transcription. It was 2018. You

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know, transcription wasn't readily available to, to us

289
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the way it is now. And I, you know, I think it one of the

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podcast evolutions I pushed back at at James Cridland and,

291
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Rob Greenlee, who were talking about the value of transcription.

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I said, this is a time waster, and it's

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it's also costly, and I'm not sure I have the time for

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it. To which James Cridland sort of snapped back, you of all people would

295
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have the ability to monetize that transcription of the show is brought

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to you by and I said, We will

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contra the transcription, which we did. And

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we contra ed it with a company that out of Hong

299
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Kong that went broke. And when it went broke, it took all my transcriptions

300
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and died with it. So that was sad because they had a great embed tool,

301
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but when the company went broke, the transcription went with it, which was too bad.

302
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So I went and got another company, this time out of Cypress, and it also

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went broke. And so here we are, you know, we we were like a year

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into doing transcription. We didn't have a lot to show for it. We had these

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embed codes on our website that that all went dead. At which point, we said,

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well, who's not gonna go broke? And that answer is Otter. And so we've been

307
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stable and and steady ever since. Lesson

308
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number 11. So the sponsorship opportunities that were out there

309
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because there was a point where it got full, and, you

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know, a lot of podcast hosts offer, you know, inventory management for

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that. But you just, at some point, you just run out of inventory, and maybe

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you still have some sponsors that you need to do. But, you know, to what,

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you know, James Cridlin said, you could have your transcription

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service sort of sponsored. You can have more than it's more than

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just mid rolls and pre rolls. You've also got space on

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the website, that you can do it. You can also create a

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little spot before you jump into the full show, or you can thank

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people, and give an an additional mention to those

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sponsors. And also if you have a show promo that you're swapping

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out, you can mention that, you know, that our show is brought to you by

321
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something. I know that might ruffle a few feathers for anybody that you're doing a

322
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promo swap with, but if you, you know, let them know that, you know, our

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show is sponsored and we're gonna mention it if we do a promo swap,

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I think they would appreciate that sort of heads up. But there are lots of

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opportunities out there just beyond, oh, I've got a mid roll and a pre

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roll and a post roll, and that's it. No. You've got a lot more. And

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so if you just take a look around, you'd be able to to find some

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more spots to get some more sponsors. A great show that does

329
00:19:47,730 --> 00:19:51,445
an excellent job at this is the Stacking Benjamin show with

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Joe Saul Sehy, because he's got, like, the such and such

331
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lifeline and the call in numbers. But, like, everything,

332
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he's, he he once made a joke, and I was like, that's actually not a

333
00:20:01,870 --> 00:20:05,490
bad analogy that he's kinda like NASCAR. He'll slap a sticker on anything.

334
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I was like, that's a good way to go. Lesson number 12.

335
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Yeah. This one goes back, actually, to, episode or it's early on.

336
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It's like episode 9, I think, where it was Jessica Rhodes who

337
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does interview connections. Yeah. I wanted her

338
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on the podcast, or I wanted to have a call with her actually. But

339
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I found she had a booking tool. And so we have things like Calendly.

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I can't remember the one I used, with you today. I used

341
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Schedule once, but these are great. This solves a bunch of problems,

342
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including time zones. People can now book in when

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I'm actually available to podcast with them.

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We can get a bounce back for people to, you know, with their connection

345
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points, warnings, reminders.

346
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I so many people come to me and they say, oh,

347
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I need a chase producer. I need a guest booker. It takes so

348
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long to do this. And yes, you can go back and forth with lots of

349
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emails. And it can get even more complicated if you've got multiple people that

350
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you need to schedule. But I went through this exercise once, and I paid it

351
00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:12,720
right away, and I bought schedule once. And now super easy. I'd love to

352
00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:15,945
have you come on my show. Here's the link. Love to have you join. Pick

353
00:21:15,945 --> 00:21:19,625
a time that works for you, and I'll be there. I use

354
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TidyCal. I've used, Acuity Scheduling, which was later bought by

355
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Squarespace. And I just like TidyCal because it was, like, $40

356
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lifetime deal. And I'm like, Don, what what's the biggest thing you

357
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think has changed since you've started in terms of, like, how you do

358
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the show? Oh, just how easy it is now. I mean,

359
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I I think there's

360
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we started with a with a phone box. Oh, man. JK

361
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Audio. I have one of those in the closet. Yeah. Yeah. And and the reason

362
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why we did that was I was thinking maybe we would have radio executives

363
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on who would call in, who would only have a landline. And as well, I'm

364
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in a basement, and I don't wanna patch people in on a cell phone. It's

365
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really been the technology, and especially when we hit the pandemic, the

366
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ability to, you know, link cameras up, to record on either side. It

367
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used to be like, oh, let's do a double ender. And boy, that got rid

368
00:22:11,395 --> 00:22:14,950
of the double enders quick once we had, you know, you know, tools like we're

369
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using now. And then StreamYard came along, and then SquadCast,

370
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and Riverside, and all this stuff that the technology is now

371
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there, and has made it just so much easier. I

372
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mean, if you think back to anybody who had to start in 2017, there there

373
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was a much, much bigger hill to climb. The joys of explaining mix

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minus to people. I don't miss that at all. I think that was one of

375
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the first things I had to overcome when I was building the studio, was setting

376
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that box to to mix minus and trying

377
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to understand that. I know with your your 25

378
00:22:47,835 --> 00:22:51,680
years of radio and now the the podcast, if somebody

379
00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:55,460
said, what's the biggest difference between radio and a podcast?

380
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Like, what are the are there pros and cons to each?

381
00:23:00,225 --> 00:23:03,845
Radio is still live. It's done best when it's local.

382
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It's easily accessible. You get in the car, and it's just there. They've

383
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got music, and it's also free. So all

384
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those sort of things wrapped up together really gives radio a very

385
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strong advantage. Podcasting, it's nice that

386
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you can put it in your pocket. You can take it with you on an

387
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airplane. It's your ecosystem, and it's customizable more than

388
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anything. So I guess those are really the the two differences. You know,

389
00:23:28,919 --> 00:23:31,160
when I started the podcast, it was really about, let's see if we can find

390
00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:34,955
the intersection between where radio and podcasting meet. And I

391
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thought they would really, you know, intersect and collide into one another,

392
00:23:38,635 --> 00:23:42,395
and they really haven't. Aside from just taking your radio show

393
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and then plunking it into, you know, catch up radio and doing some

394
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on demand stuff, like, after the show, it

395
00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:53,355
really it really hasn't sort of intersected as strongly as I thought it

396
00:23:53,355 --> 00:23:57,035
would. And I think that's fine. And I still look at it as being

397
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sort of audio in 2 piles. 1 is live and now, and the other

398
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one is on demand. So

399
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one is sort of like a network TV show, like NBC, ABC, CBS, and the

400
00:24:08,269 --> 00:24:11,845
other one's a little bit like Netflix where you click sort of on demand. But

401
00:24:11,845 --> 00:24:15,525
now look. Now Netflix is doing some live stuff. And, you know, we

402
00:24:15,605 --> 00:24:19,205
you can do a live podcast, and it can be

403
00:24:19,205 --> 00:24:22,940
on fountain. So because I've heard some live shows

404
00:24:22,940 --> 00:24:26,620
appear on fountain. So it's getting closer, and I think probably within the

405
00:24:26,620 --> 00:24:30,235
next 5 years, we'll see it we'll see, you know, grow even

406
00:24:30,235 --> 00:24:34,075
closer together. Well, we we've mentioned the technology, and you just

407
00:24:34,075 --> 00:24:37,810
mentioned fountains. So I I I know I voiced my opinion on your

408
00:24:37,810 --> 00:24:41,410
show. What is your opinion of the whole podcasting 2 point o

409
00:24:41,410 --> 00:24:45,184
movement? I think it's a cultural one. And I think a lot of people are

410
00:24:45,184 --> 00:24:48,544
like, well, how do we get more people into it? The only way to get

411
00:24:48,544 --> 00:24:52,080
more people into it is to talk about it and to let people know. So

412
00:24:52,159 --> 00:24:55,600
every on all of my shows, I always tell people that we support

413
00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:59,120
podcasting 2.0. If you're using an app, you can send us a

414
00:24:59,120 --> 00:25:02,455
boost. And if you don't have an app that does that, go to get a

415
00:25:02,455 --> 00:25:05,274
new one right now at new podcast apps.comorpodcasting2.

416
00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:13,640
Org. Org. Thank you. And I'm the voice of that. I

417
00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:16,920
actually I actually I voice that. So and by the way, any podcaster who wants

418
00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:20,695
those IDs, I've created the IDs. You can have them. They're free, and you

419
00:25:20,695 --> 00:25:23,815
can use those, a male voice and a female voice, if you just wanna use

420
00:25:23,815 --> 00:25:27,434
that piece of imaging for your particular podcast because you support podcasting

421
00:25:27,495 --> 00:25:30,850
2.0. There you go. And it sounds something like

422
00:25:30,850 --> 00:25:34,470
this. This podcast supports podcasting 2.0,

423
00:25:34,850 --> 00:25:37,809
so feel free to send us a boost if you are listening on a new

424
00:25:37,809 --> 00:25:41,015
podcast app. Find your new app now at podcasting2.org/apps.

425
00:25:43,235 --> 00:25:46,900
That's podcasting2.org/apps. You

426
00:25:46,900 --> 00:25:49,560
also have now you have the your podcast at soundoffpodcast.com.

427
00:25:50,740 --> 00:25:54,520
I'm sorry. Is it dotcom or dotca? I should notice. Both, actually.

428
00:25:54,740 --> 00:25:58,245
Ah, look at you, mister smarty pants. I love that. So if if I think

429
00:25:58,245 --> 00:26:02,085
if you put in sound off podcast dotca, it will reroute to sound off

430
00:26:02,085 --> 00:26:05,445
podcast.com. There we go. Then now you also have those sound

431
00:26:05,445 --> 00:26:09,170
off dot network. And I was like, wow. You have a network.

432
00:26:09,170 --> 00:26:12,930
And so is that just the people? Because you do help podcasters. Is

433
00:26:12,930 --> 00:26:16,485
that just the people you help, or is that actually a network where you're

434
00:26:16,485 --> 00:26:20,165
looking for similar shows? Or tell us a little bit about the network. So

435
00:26:20,165 --> 00:26:23,860
it's for anybody who's come to me and wants some help. So they, you know,

436
00:26:23,860 --> 00:26:27,540
maybe they start out, they're looking to grow. What are some of the things we

437
00:26:27,540 --> 00:26:31,220
can do? Maybe they hit a particular point in

438
00:26:31,220 --> 00:26:35,005
their podcast where they want to have ads. Well, we can do

439
00:26:35,005 --> 00:26:38,045
that for you. Maybe they just wanna sell their own stuff because they've got a

440
00:26:38,045 --> 00:26:41,165
podcast and and, you know, they wanna sell yoga tights out of their basement. Well,

441
00:26:41,165 --> 00:26:44,480
we can help you with that. We'll help you build, you know, your your dynamic

442
00:26:44,540 --> 00:26:48,140
audio insertion more than anything. So it is a

443
00:26:48,140 --> 00:26:50,914
network, and so I for years, I was like, oh, no. It's not really a

444
00:26:50,914 --> 00:26:54,274
network. It's just a group of podcasts that are together. And it was Mattie Stott

445
00:26:54,274 --> 00:26:57,730
who said, do you run promos between these shows? And I said, yes. And he

446
00:26:57,730 --> 00:27:01,409
goes, well, congratulations. You have a network. And so cross promos is

447
00:27:01,409 --> 00:27:04,765
another way that we want we want audiences to grow. It's a it's a bit

448
00:27:04,765 --> 00:27:08,205
of a community. We have Slack channel. People can come in and share

449
00:27:08,205 --> 00:27:11,665
ideas, hacks, and as well appear on each other's shows.

450
00:27:12,210 --> 00:27:15,910
Nice. Now with your radio background, I would love to get your opinion on this.

451
00:27:16,290 --> 00:27:19,970
On one hand, if I just happen to come to a natural kind

452
00:27:19,970 --> 00:27:23,695
of stop. Right? You have that kind of verbiage. Do you have an opinion

453
00:27:24,075 --> 00:27:27,835
on how to switch from content to ad? I mean,

454
00:27:27,835 --> 00:27:31,580
there's no way to anybody that the baby's ugly and commercials are coming up.

455
00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:35,480
Really more than anything. But I've I mean, I can go back to 1992, and

456
00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:38,125
I had a program director tell me, don't say,

457
00:27:39,785 --> 00:27:43,544
you know, we'll be back because we never go away. And so

458
00:27:43,544 --> 00:27:47,320
there are little things that you can that can be said that really

459
00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:50,840
drive a program director nuts. The one that really makes me

460
00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:54,285
crazy these days is when somebody on the air is

461
00:27:54,525 --> 00:27:58,045
trying to say, hey. Coming up in 9 minutes, we're gonna be doing

462
00:27:58,045 --> 00:28:01,645
this. I'm gonna tell you about this particular thing that Donald Trump just

463
00:28:01,645 --> 00:28:04,870
did. Well, that's useless because it's gonna take me about 9 seconds for me to

464
00:28:04,870 --> 00:28:08,309
Google what he just did. So I don't know what exactly you're hoping that I'm

465
00:28:08,309 --> 00:28:12,125
gonna stick around for. Even worse, hey. Coming up in right

466
00:28:12,125 --> 00:28:15,645
after the break, we're gonna give you your weather forecast. Well, that's ridiculous because I

467
00:28:15,645 --> 00:28:19,409
can get that from Siri with just a few words. So there are some

468
00:28:19,409 --> 00:28:23,010
pockets of radio that haven't really caught up or figured out how to do it

469
00:28:23,010 --> 00:28:25,990
and if there's really a right way to do it. In the end, it's commercials,

470
00:28:26,049 --> 00:28:29,635
and and radio commercial breaks are way too long. They can go 6

471
00:28:29,635 --> 00:28:33,075
minutes. They can go 7 minutes. Way too many units sold at too low a

472
00:28:33,075 --> 00:28:36,880
price. And I think that's why podcasting is done so well is

473
00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:40,720
that, you know, 1 or 2 mid roll ads per half

474
00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:44,159
hour. We're not really sure what the magic number is, but somewhere in there is

475
00:28:44,159 --> 00:28:47,965
a nice trade off for some for some content. To this point

476
00:28:47,965 --> 00:28:51,805
though, podcasters are still guilty of this as well, and I

477
00:28:51,805 --> 00:28:55,080
hear this all the time. The show is winding down

478
00:28:55,620 --> 00:28:58,260
and usually the host will say, well, we're just about to wrap up here in

479
00:28:58,260 --> 00:29:01,855
just a sec. Just before I let you go, one last question

480
00:29:02,075 --> 00:29:05,755
before, you know, we we end this. These are all

481
00:29:05,755 --> 00:29:09,530
signals that the show is coming to an end. You are actually inviting the

482
00:29:09,530 --> 00:29:13,370
listener to leave and giving them an option. Just ask the last question and

483
00:29:13,370 --> 00:29:16,895
have the show end. You don't wanna tip-off that

484
00:29:16,895 --> 00:29:20,575
we're wrapping this up. I gotta go. Someone's gotta go. We're in a hurry. You're

485
00:29:20,575 --> 00:29:24,255
actually causing anxiety to the listener. And when the minute you do that,

486
00:29:24,255 --> 00:29:27,309
you're actually queuing the listener in their mind to go and, oh, what's the next

487
00:29:27,309 --> 00:29:31,070
piece of content I'm gonna have to go find? Yeah. What's next in the queue?

488
00:29:31,070 --> 00:29:34,665
What happens if I click next? That's interesting. Well, you've

489
00:29:34,665 --> 00:29:38,184
you've interviewed a lot of people. Do you have any tips

490
00:29:38,184 --> 00:29:41,890
for the person that's starting out with podcasting and they're

491
00:29:42,050 --> 00:29:45,250
they wanna do interviews. You've done a ton. What are some,

492
00:29:45,650 --> 00:29:49,075
some quick tips to, help them do it right? Yeah.

493
00:29:49,075 --> 00:29:52,675
So I I I have done, you know, 400 plus podcast

494
00:29:52,675 --> 00:29:56,275
interviews. But before, I was the music director at a radio station, and the bands

495
00:29:56,275 --> 00:29:59,769
would have to come by. And my job was to interview the bands. And

496
00:29:59,769 --> 00:30:03,529
sometimes I don't know the bands, and maybe I don't like the bands. They're

497
00:30:03,529 --> 00:30:07,245
new. How am I gonna make this entertaining? So I've been

498
00:30:07,245 --> 00:30:10,925
interviewing for a very, very long time. And the

499
00:30:10,925 --> 00:30:14,419
most important thing is to make sure that you plan

500
00:30:14,419 --> 00:30:17,799
accordingly. And by that, I think of Bill Parcells in football.

501
00:30:17,860 --> 00:30:21,620
50% preparation, 50% execution. So do write

502
00:30:21,620 --> 00:30:25,395
out your questions. Don't feel the need to ask them all. Think of

503
00:30:25,395 --> 00:30:28,355
it more as sort of a roadmap to where you're going to go, and then

504
00:30:28,355 --> 00:30:32,195
listen back to how they're answering. And maybe while they're answering something, another

505
00:30:32,195 --> 00:30:35,300
question pops in your head. You need to have a pen with you at all

506
00:30:35,300 --> 00:30:38,660
times to write down that question. There you go. So you don't

507
00:30:38,660 --> 00:30:42,235
forget, you know, that I wanna ask about that. I wanna ask about that. And

508
00:30:42,235 --> 00:30:45,915
maybe you'll turf another question, and then you'll you'll ask one that you just scribbled

509
00:30:45,915 --> 00:30:49,390
down. Favorite celebrity interview?

510
00:30:50,010 --> 00:30:53,850
In podcasting? Or or music because it sounds like you

511
00:30:53,930 --> 00:30:57,515
you know, depending on when you were doing that, you probably had some fun eighties,

512
00:30:57,995 --> 00:31:01,755
Oh, Mick Jagger. Yeah. That doesn't suck. No. That was that

513
00:31:01,755 --> 00:31:05,350
was very good. Yeah. Mick Jagger. I mean, albeit it was on the phone. Ozzy

514
00:31:05,350 --> 00:31:08,970
Osbourne in 1996 before we had the Osbournes,

515
00:31:09,669 --> 00:31:13,345
we didn't know that he was, like, that wacky. And so every

516
00:31:13,345 --> 00:31:16,465
question I asked him, he kept saying, well, I'm gonna have to ask my wife,

517
00:31:16,465 --> 00:31:19,904
Sharon. Well, that's a question for Sharon. I thought I was being smart by asking

518
00:31:19,904 --> 00:31:23,600
questions, but they were really all managerial questions. So every answer was,

519
00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:27,440
oh, you'll have to, Sharon. And I was like, well, just put Sharon on the

520
00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:30,960
phone. It was it was and I thought it was just

521
00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:34,765
bizarre. You know, I think with podcasting and especially this one, I get to,

522
00:31:34,765 --> 00:31:38,605
you know, I got to speak with my broadcast heroes. And,

523
00:31:38,605 --> 00:31:42,120
you know, talking to Broadway Bill Lee, who in New York

524
00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:45,800
City is still in his seventies and is still, you know,

525
00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:49,420
hitting the post and playing the the hits on WCBS FM,

526
00:31:50,285 --> 00:31:54,125
you know, interviewing Lisa Guerrero because I loved watching the the best damn

527
00:31:54,125 --> 00:31:57,880
sports show period on on Fox. I used to watch that on satellite. And, you

528
00:31:57,880 --> 00:32:01,720
know, and knowing her career where she was, on Monday Night Football for a

529
00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:05,560
year, and, she's in Playboy, and now she works at Inside Edition, and just, you

530
00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:09,235
know, hearing her story. So those are some of the favorite ones that

531
00:32:09,235 --> 00:32:13,075
I've got to dig into. If you're in

532
00:32:13,075 --> 00:32:16,870
the middle of an interview and it's not going well, what's

533
00:32:16,870 --> 00:32:20,710
your strategy there? Because you did say it's 50% preparation, and you

534
00:32:20,710 --> 00:32:24,365
prep for somebody to, you know, actually answer the questions and something's gone

535
00:32:24,365 --> 00:32:28,125
wrong. Maybe if it's an old drunk musician, you never know. What's your

536
00:32:28,125 --> 00:32:31,645
strategy to, like, okay. This is not going well. How do you how do you

537
00:32:31,645 --> 00:32:35,360
pull yourself out of that? Well,

538
00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:37,680
I think the first thing is when you do interview, I think a lot of

539
00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:41,200
people ask really long questions. And I think really long questions can really

540
00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:44,515
intimidate the guest. So

541
00:32:44,975 --> 00:32:48,495
try to ask short, succinct questions more than

542
00:32:48,495 --> 00:32:52,290
anything. And I find when you ask short, succinct questions, you don't get

543
00:32:52,290 --> 00:32:56,070
into this particular problem. But the nice thing is with podcasting,

544
00:32:56,370 --> 00:33:00,144
it's it's recorded. So if you don't like the way the answer came

545
00:33:00,144 --> 00:33:03,745
out the first time, maybe rephrasing the question and getting him to re answer it

546
00:33:03,745 --> 00:33:06,625
without saying, oh, could you answer it a different way, or can you change it

547
00:33:06,625 --> 00:33:09,539
up? Cause that stuff will make them feel uncomfortable. Because you can ask the same

548
00:33:09,539 --> 00:33:12,360
question again, just in a different particular fashion.

549
00:33:13,620 --> 00:33:17,415
I think also when you start the interview, I think prefacing that, you

550
00:33:17,415 --> 00:33:21,015
know, this is recorded, and anything you don't like, just go back and

551
00:33:21,015 --> 00:33:24,455
restart it, and we'll fix it up and clean it up for you later. I

552
00:33:24,455 --> 00:33:28,010
think that's a heavy, you know, burden that you take off their

553
00:33:28,010 --> 00:33:31,850
shoulders, when you tell them that, you know, it's not live and

554
00:33:31,850 --> 00:33:34,490
we're not on the radio. I mean, I remember the first time I went on

555
00:33:34,490 --> 00:33:38,125
the radio. I was 18. I was so nervous. And my first time I

556
00:33:38,125 --> 00:33:41,184
went on the radio as a, you know, as a DJ, I was so nervous.

557
00:33:41,885 --> 00:33:45,559
And people would come to the studio, and they're so nervous because it's live,

558
00:33:45,559 --> 00:33:48,600
and you don't you can't do any of that stuff. So I think if you

559
00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:51,159
let them know that, yeah, this is recorded, and we're gonna be able to clean

560
00:33:51,159 --> 00:33:54,955
this up. It really takes a takes a a load

561
00:33:54,955 --> 00:33:58,715
off their shoulders. And the other thing I wanna ask you

562
00:33:58,715 --> 00:34:02,495
about that's definitely new, you know, since you started the show,

563
00:34:02,730 --> 00:34:06,350
The last week and a half, I've been just a tsunami

564
00:34:06,410 --> 00:34:09,929
of AI has been put in front of me. What are your thoughts on all

565
00:34:09,929 --> 00:34:13,755
of this automated stuff? I think as a voice actor,

566
00:34:13,755 --> 00:34:17,114
I'm not too scared. I think the best part is it's gonna, you know, take

567
00:34:17,114 --> 00:34:20,655
out the bottom of the industry. So if you're on Fiverr,

568
00:34:21,090 --> 00:34:24,690
you're going to not get as much Fiverr work because I could just go use

569
00:34:24,690 --> 00:34:27,970
an AI voice. But there's still gonna be a lot of work out there that's

570
00:34:27,970 --> 00:34:31,795
gonna require a voice actor. And so if you are a voice

571
00:34:31,795 --> 00:34:34,994
actor, you've got to sharpen your skills. You've got to stay fresh. You've got to

572
00:34:34,994 --> 00:34:38,760
be versatile. You've got to be practicing a lot. You

573
00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:41,960
know, try out some new characters. It's not just reading about, you know, the corporate

574
00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:45,800
narration. There was somebody I think we work with in the industry here

575
00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:49,545
who went and got an AI voice, and I said, oh, I can tell that's

576
00:34:49,545 --> 00:34:53,224
AI. So if I can tell that's AI, I think you should probably go and

577
00:34:53,224 --> 00:34:56,744
get this other person to go and and and voice it. And get something, you

578
00:34:56,744 --> 00:35:00,580
know, warm and wonderful. Some of the most popular ads now, or

579
00:35:00,580 --> 00:35:03,840
at least in the past, has always been, you know, voiced by a familiar

580
00:35:04,620 --> 00:35:08,035
actor. So Gene Hackman, you know, did him for years.

581
00:35:08,815 --> 00:35:12,495
John Goodman. John Goodman. Sam Elliott? Josh

582
00:35:12,495 --> 00:35:16,290
Lucas does does Home Depot. I mean, it's distinctive and you

583
00:35:16,290 --> 00:35:20,130
know it. And I think for, you know, voice actors if you're

584
00:35:20,130 --> 00:35:23,430
thinking about getting a voice, get a voice for your brand.

585
00:35:24,195 --> 00:35:27,635
I think I feel I feel so good, you know, when I you know, about

586
00:35:27,635 --> 00:35:31,075
using the people that I do, and I pay them. I pay them as if

587
00:35:31,075 --> 00:35:34,320
it were radio, and that's the voice of my brand. I can't tell you how

588
00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:37,040
good it made me feel to go and do that instead of just using sort

589
00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:40,775
of a regular, just a regular voice

590
00:35:40,775 --> 00:35:44,615
that you can get on on on Fiverr. And just just fun fact,

591
00:35:44,615 --> 00:35:48,310
the person who is the voice of the SoundOff podcast is Tara Sands,

592
00:35:48,310 --> 00:35:50,770
and Tara Sands is a voice on Pokemon.

593
00:35:52,350 --> 00:35:56,015
There you go. Bulbasaur, believe, is the character that she voices, as well

594
00:35:56,015 --> 00:35:59,775
as many, many other things. You you said work on your different characters.

595
00:35:59,775 --> 00:36:03,520
Like, how many characters do do you have? Like, do you I don't know. Do

596
00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:07,279
you have, like, can you do, like, serious Canadian aboot? Or

597
00:36:07,279 --> 00:36:10,975
or, like, what's that's something I've never really thought of. But Yeah.

598
00:36:10,975 --> 00:36:14,415
You don't really think of it until the script comes back and say, are you

599
00:36:14,415 --> 00:36:17,935
Canadian or from Minnesota or North Dakota? Because you said a

600
00:36:17,935 --> 00:36:21,570
boat. It's one of the 2 that it sort of lands in there. I I

601
00:36:21,570 --> 00:36:24,450
think one of the bigger discoveries I had was that I I could have a

602
00:36:24,450 --> 00:36:28,015
very young voice. And when I became the voice of the

603
00:36:28,015 --> 00:36:31,635
Ontario Virtual School and I was reading, you know, course lessons,

604
00:36:31,935 --> 00:36:35,500
and it's just sort of like, you know, 60 seconds or 2 minutes about what

605
00:36:35,500 --> 00:36:39,340
the course entails. Hey, kids. Math is fun, and we want you

606
00:36:39,340 --> 00:36:43,145
to join the Ontario Virtual School. And I was just a character that

607
00:36:43,145 --> 00:36:46,505
came out Right. And they said, okay. You're hired. And I was like, well, you

608
00:36:46,505 --> 00:36:50,125
know, this you wanted somebody, you know, 20 years old

609
00:36:50,470 --> 00:36:54,150
or, you know, teenage sounding, and apparently that voice worked. So

610
00:36:54,150 --> 00:36:56,950
it's really that's when you have to try out the character voice to see how

611
00:36:56,950 --> 00:37:00,085
it's gonna land and and see how you might get it. And for anybody who

612
00:37:00,085 --> 00:37:03,925
wants to get in and be be a voice actor, take some

613
00:37:03,925 --> 00:37:07,540
improv lessons. That's that's where it'll shine. I was

614
00:37:07,540 --> 00:37:11,380
curious. I've never really delved into voice acting or voice over or whatever you

615
00:37:11,380 --> 00:37:14,900
want to call it. And one of the interesting ones that's sort of now come

616
00:37:14,900 --> 00:37:18,355
up is you know, companies will go and they'll say, can we get a radio

617
00:37:18,355 --> 00:37:22,115
ad? And the radio ad then, it's like, okay, we're gonna put the radio ad

618
00:37:22,115 --> 00:37:25,869
on podcast, and it doesn't work because it's a radio ad for the

619
00:37:25,869 --> 00:37:29,549
radio. And so for podcasting, you could get a host

620
00:37:29,549 --> 00:37:33,244
read, and I think we're all familiar with with how a host read ad will

621
00:37:33,244 --> 00:37:36,924
work. But now there's also announcer read. So frequently a company like

622
00:37:36,924 --> 00:37:40,684
Spotify will come to me or, any other company. They

623
00:37:40,684 --> 00:37:44,369
say, could you read this as announcer read? And what they're really

624
00:37:44,369 --> 00:37:48,050
looking for is read this to podcast listeners. So they

625
00:37:48,050 --> 00:37:51,715
don't want the yelling and the screaming and the high production. They're really looking for

626
00:37:51,795 --> 00:37:53,875
somebody who is gonna speak in a slower tone and deliver the message in a

627
00:37:53,875 --> 00:37:55,315
more conversational way. So there's sort of a whole little industry that has grown up

628
00:37:55,315 --> 00:37:58,755
off to the side of, you know, in the voice acting world, where

629
00:37:58,755 --> 00:38:02,119
they're asking off to the side

630
00:38:02,580 --> 00:38:06,340
of, you know, in the voice acting world where they're asking for announcer

631
00:38:06,340 --> 00:38:09,640
red. And announcer red means earphone listening,

632
00:38:10,175 --> 00:38:13,855
personality, and conversational. I mean, I I don't he's

633
00:38:13,855 --> 00:38:16,994
before my time, but I always think when I hear when I think of personality

634
00:38:17,135 --> 00:38:20,750
radio, I think of Wolfman Jack, baby. You know? And I just

635
00:38:20,910 --> 00:38:24,430
there's there's no personalities in radio, at least during the

636
00:38:24,430 --> 00:38:28,095
morning, maybe. But the rest of it's been sucked out. So I've been

637
00:38:28,095 --> 00:38:31,855
telling podcasters, lean into your personality and your stories and things like

638
00:38:31,855 --> 00:38:35,619
that because, a, Chat GPT doesn't have that. And, b, it's, you

639
00:38:35,619 --> 00:38:39,380
know, you're either gonna endear yourself to your audience or, you know and those that

640
00:38:39,380 --> 00:38:43,115
don't like your personality won't listen, and that's fine. Yeah. I mean and

641
00:38:43,115 --> 00:38:46,715
just I think of radio, and you mentioned you're you're in Ohio. I can get

642
00:38:46,715 --> 00:38:50,540
WMMS in my car. I'm in Winnipeg, Manitoba right now. Yeah. And I

643
00:38:50,540 --> 00:38:54,220
am gonna hear the ads, and the ads are gonna be, your budget stretches

644
00:38:54,220 --> 00:38:57,795
further at Mattress Firm. That's not the way we would ever

645
00:38:57,795 --> 00:39:00,835
deliver that in in the podcast world. And by the way, I was a voice

646
00:39:00,835 --> 00:39:04,615
of Mattress Firm for a while. There you go. Yeah. WMM

647
00:39:04,755 --> 00:39:08,480
at home of the buzzard. So that's always great fun. Well,

648
00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:12,079
congratulations, my friend, on 400 episodes. How many

649
00:39:12,079 --> 00:39:15,760
episodes do you know? You have your other shows, the, podcast Super

650
00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:19,265
Fans, and, you may also like do you know how many episodes of those you

651
00:39:19,265 --> 00:39:22,865
got? Yeah. Episode 23 came out today of,

652
00:39:23,185 --> 00:39:25,980
and by the way, this is a great story of it started as the hot

653
00:39:25,980 --> 00:39:29,420
air podcast. We did a bunch of of episodes, and I thought it

654
00:39:29,420 --> 00:39:33,005
was, you know, kind of lame, after a while, and it didn't have

655
00:39:33,005 --> 00:39:35,645
direction and branding. So we changed it to You May Also Like. It's now a

656
00:39:35,645 --> 00:39:39,285
podcast recommendation podcast. And where we so

657
00:39:39,405 --> 00:39:42,750
yeah. I just I looked at, you know, the work that that, you know, Ariel

658
00:39:42,750 --> 00:39:46,430
Nissenblatt does with a newsletter, Earbuds Collective, which has podcast

659
00:39:46,430 --> 00:39:50,175
recommendations. I said, well, I should do a podcast that has podcast recommendations. So

660
00:39:50,495 --> 00:39:54,015
again, it's sort of an area for me to to to play. Podcast Super

661
00:39:54,015 --> 00:39:57,695
Friends, we get together. There's about there's 5 of us.

662
00:39:57,695 --> 00:40:01,480
We're podcast producers. We actually started to do a group meeting where

663
00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:04,760
we came together once a month just to talk about, hey, have you tried this

664
00:40:04,760 --> 00:40:08,315
new update with SquadCast? Have you tried this tool? Have you tried that tool? What's

665
00:40:08,315 --> 00:40:12,155
your experience? We would just share ideas and eventually, we should bottle this and

666
00:40:12,155 --> 00:40:15,755
put it out there, and I'm sure people will find this interesting. And, yeah, there's

667
00:40:15,755 --> 00:40:18,380
some people out there who just wanna make their podcast better, and they're looking for

668
00:40:18,380 --> 00:40:21,900
tips and tricks. And so, we do it live. We put it live on StreamYard,

669
00:40:21,900 --> 00:40:24,400
and then we put it into podcast form afterwards.

670
00:40:25,355 --> 00:40:29,035
Excellent. Well, I will have links to all that along with, the

671
00:40:29,035 --> 00:40:32,475
SoundOff podcast and Doug's voice over and the network. Everything will be

672
00:40:32,475 --> 00:40:36,140
out in the show notes, which I will now tell you the number

673
00:40:36,140 --> 00:40:39,980
now. Well, Matt, thank you so much for coming on the show.

674
00:40:39,980 --> 00:40:43,615
I really, really appreciate it. And thank you. I met you back in

675
00:40:43,615 --> 00:40:46,674
2016. I couldn't believe there was a guy who's got a whole school,

676
00:40:47,694 --> 00:40:51,480
involving podcasting. And I thought, this is a thing, and this is where I

677
00:40:51,480 --> 00:40:54,760
wanna be. And it was sort of around that moment that I, there was gonna

678
00:40:54,760 --> 00:40:58,119
be no turning back. I'm just gonna do this podcast thing because it it it's

679
00:40:58,119 --> 00:41:01,578
it's awesome. It is awesome, man. Alright. Thank you so much.

680
00:41:01,798 --> 00:41:02,538
Thank you.