Podcasting's Deep Connection With Alban Brooke

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One of the questions I get on a fairly regular

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basis is, Dave, you're the head of podcasting education

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at Libsyn. How do you handle if

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someone has a question about Buzzsprout or Captivator,

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Blueberry, or any of the other 8,000,000,000 hosts that

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are out there. And the answer is simple. For me,

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I present the facts. I try to keep my opinion out of

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it and then go, based on this fact, this this

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host does this. This host does this and cost

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this much. This host cost this. And then you decide.

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And if you pick Libsyn, great. If you don't, I'm assuming

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you're picking it because you have different needs that might be met

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by a different host. And I've had people go, well,

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the school of podcasting, he's never gonna talk about anything but Libsyn. And

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And so I'm here today to go, no. I think you're wrong on that because

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I'm interviewing Albin Brook from Buzzsprout. And

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the reason I'm doing this is also, back in the day,

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Adam Curry, one of the very first podcasting was called The

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Daily Source Code. And Adam would talk about all things

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from all over the globe that was happening in

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podcasting. And then Adam started a media

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host. And if you ever hear him say you can't monetize

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the network, is because he had 36,000,000 chances to do

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that. And what was originally pod

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show and later, Meveo was a network he

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started that just didn't quite work. But when he

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started Podshow, he kinda quit talking about

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all the other things in podcasting. And I remember

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being very disappointed because I wanted that to be

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my go to show for all things podcasting. So if

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you've ever thought that Dave's a show for Libsyn, look, I love Libsyn. It's a

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great job. It's a great company, and we would love to have you while I'm

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here. Use the coupon code s o p free to get a free

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month. But I also realized that there are other things

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happening in podcasting, and the school of podcasting has always tried to

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be somewhat like Switzerland where we get along with everyone.

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So today, I am bringing on Alben Brooke.

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He has been the marketing manager at Buzzsprout

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for almost 10 years. And when we recorded this, we

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had both just got back from podcasting movement, Evolutions.

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And we're gonna share our insights from that conference as

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well as general questions like, you know, everybody's favorite,

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how do you grow your podcast? Hit it, ladies.

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Podcasting since 2 1,005. I am your

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award winning hall of fame podcast coach, Dave Jackson, thanking

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you so much for tuning in. If you are new to the

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show, this is where I help you plan. I help you launch.

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I help you grow. And if you want to monetize your

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podcast, my website is school of podcasting.com.

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Use the coupon code listener when you sign up for either a

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monthly or yearly subscription and join worry free with

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a 30 day money back guarantee. So, yeah. I

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have met Albin over the years. We bump into each other

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at different conferences. And unlike radio,

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most podcast companies, we hang out

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together. I love Todd Cochran. I love Mike Dell.

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Mark over at Captivate and Danny

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and Jordan and Alban and everybody, like,

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who else can I geek out about podcasting with? And

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so, yes, I know the minute we turn around, you know, I'm

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gonna say things about Buzzsprout, and Todd's gonna say things about Libsyn, and

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then Marketing Captivate is gonna say something. We look. It's

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business. But there's no reason we have to, like, fight with each other.

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So with that, I give you Albenbrook,

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head of marketing at Buzzsprout. Everything we talk about today,

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you can find at schoolofpodcasting.com /

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928. As Albon is the

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head of marketing at Buzzsprout, I thought, well, the

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one question that we always hear and the one that you probably wanna

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hear is, hey. How do I grow my podcast?

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And I really wanted to tap into his answer because of his marketing

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background. My standard answer is, first

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off, congratulations on starting and for

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starting the one that's the hardest to grow. Newsletters

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and social and blogs and video

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are all easier by a good bit to grow than a

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podcast. Podcasts are the hardest of all of them. I've done all of them.

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It's even for me working in a podcasting company, it's the hardest.

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But it has the greatest dividends because

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on a blog piece of content where somebody will read it for, like,

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2 and a half minutes of my videos on YouTube, it'll be, like,

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45 seconds of watch time. TikTok, it's, like, 12

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seconds of watch time. Those are you know, you

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get one view or one interaction or one follow

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there. And so, you know, the number one is prevalent

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but you gotta multiply by how long they've paid attention.

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On podcasting, we've got much smaller

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download numbers. We have much smaller audience numbers, but what I

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consistently see is in a 45 minute episode, my

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average duration if someone starts it is, like, 36

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minutes, 38 minutes. Most people

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are finishing the entire episode. That's so

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different than any other medium. It's also important to

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remember, everywhere else, YouTube decides, is this

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video good enough to even show to your subscribers? If

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I post on Twitter and I have 6 1,000 followers,

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but Twitter doesn't think I write great tweets, they're gonna show

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it to, like, a 100 of my followers. So even

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though I earned those followers at some point, I grew my

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audience, I'm not able to reach them. So they're still not

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really my audience. Podcasting, if you are

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subscribed, that episode shows up on your player. If you're

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actually listening to episodes, it's showing up in your players and people

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are listening, like, 38 minutes out of a 45 minute

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episode. So all that to be said, the fact

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that you're doing podcasting, it's gonna be slower than all the

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others and it's going to pay greater dividends because the relationship is

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gonna be so much deeper. And I love that answer

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because I think the the number one thing that kills

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podcasters, it's having unrealistic

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expectations. But I know you're probably going, okay.

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Yeah. Yeah. Right mindset. Whatever. How do I grow my audience? The

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number one way to grow a podcast is to keep

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podcasting. It's very easy to to get discouraged because

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you're on a slower journey, and you see, wow, I've done

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3 episodes, and I'm only at 20 downloads per episode.

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That's actually probably about above average for the industry. Once you

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get up into the thirties, we Buzzsprout across a

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120,000 plus active shows, we think

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31 downloads is the median. So you're at the 50th

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percentile when you hit 31 downloads per episode.

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And everybody who continues podcasting and growing

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themselves, learning their craft, getting better content,

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they all grow because the way that

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podcasting mostly grow is through word-of-mouth, through an

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existing audience. You can do things like advertising

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podcasting apps. You could use something like Buzzsprout Ads. You

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can go on other shows. You can do cross promos.

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You can, work with other content creators

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in who are talking about similar content is

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yours. There's so many ideas of how to do the marketing,

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but the underlying piece is you gotta stay in this game

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for a few years if you want to get a real

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audience, you know. And the more of an existing audience you

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have, the easier it's to grow because you've hit this critical mass

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of listeners who will refer your content to their friends.

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Now, you heard Albin say the magic word, at least it is in

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2024. Everybody's really excited about YouTube.

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And I heard that Alvin had a hot take when it came to video. I

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think there's a combination of YouTube doing a keynote,

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new things that are cool that YouTube is doing around

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what they're now kind of referencing as shows, and then just being in the

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LA scene, I think you get a lot of, like, very well

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produced, you know, high end shows coming out of LA

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and the combination felt like I came home

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hearing so much about if you wanna be doing a podcast, you

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really need to be thinking about video. And I just kept

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hearing video video video and I'm flying home thinking the whole

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time, I didn't get into this because I like video. I got

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into this because I love audio.

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And for almost 15 years now, Buzzsprout has

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been audio only. And I think, you know, here's the

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moment where everyone's telling us, you know,

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you need to be video focused and audio is kind of the past, you

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know. Wouldn't it be great if podcasting was just video?

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And I just keep feeling like, no. Actually, it would

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be significantly worse. YouTube is amazing.

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Video is amazing. Netflix is amazing and it is different

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than radio and podcasting and audiobooks.

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So, yeah, I I feel like I'm gonna be maybe the last

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person yelling at these conferences, you know. Maybe just do audio.

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Start out with one thing. Don't overload yourself with 15

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things, videos, social, newsletter, blog post, and

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podcast. Just do the one, any of them that

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appeals to you and, like, you can grow over time, but your

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podcast doesn't have to be a newsletter to be good. It doesn't have to be

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a blog to be good. It doesn't have to be a video to be good.

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It is fully valid to just be a

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podcast. And if you follow the Dave Jackson line of

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thinking, it's always consider your source, always consider your source.

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So you might go, well, of course, the guy from a platform that doesn't support

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video is gonna say that, but I wholeheartedly agree with him.

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I've said it before. I'm not anti YouTube. If you've got the bandwidth and

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the time and the budget, absolutely be a YouTuber

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and a podcaster. But I hate when I hear people go, yeah, I would start

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a podcasting they've got a phenomenal idea, but they don't wanna

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be on video. And you really don't have to be

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everywhere. And the key there is have to. But what I don't

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love is this idea that everybody needs to do everything.

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Whether it be podcasters doing all the different types of

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media or YouTube doing all media can be there.

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Music and video and audio and audiobooks

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and everything else, and Spotify does everything else.

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The world is a little bit better when people are so focused

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on one thing that Spotify does music better, not just

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better than Apple Music. They do better than anyone has ever

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done music before. Recently, a study came

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out because for years, it's been many podcasters don't make

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it past episode 7. And recently,

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a study showed that now some podcasters

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never make it past episode 5. What's gonna happen is

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people are just gonna stop. They're not gonna do the newsletter and the blog and

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the social post and the video and the podcast. They're just all gonna

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end and we're gonna lose another creator to go back to

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their normal day job and never think about this again. And that's a

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shame. And that is one other thing talking about going back to the

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day job. Many people start off with the

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idea of podcasting, and they wanna make money. And that's

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perfectly fine. What I always say there is I'm not anti

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monetization. Again, I'm the guy that wrote the book on podcast monetization

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and profit from your podcast. But in the first couple chapters, I point

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out that is not going to happen overnight. So I

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was talking with Albin, and one of his hobbies is

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running. And I asked him. I go, are you making any money running?

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I'm not making any money. I love this idea.

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Something doesn't have to be monetized to also be

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valuable. I have not monetization child, and yet,

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parenting is the best thing that I've ever done. And for me,

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I think, one of the benefits of podcasting is the

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actual journey of creating your podcast.

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I think creating something is just valuable

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for your soul. And so if you wanna create in

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any of these mediums, I highly recommend to do

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it. And do it in a way that is affordable to

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you. I hope if it's a podcast that it's on Buzzsprout,

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you might hope that it's on LipSyn, but we would both just say, just

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go do something and see if you like it. And

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then over time, you will grow into new interests and

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hobbies. Maybe you'll drop it all and you'll become a pickleball

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fan like I have and, maybe you'll just go on to something else.

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But doing it all, really, it just kills the fun

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And if you're not making money and you're not having fun, that's just a

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recipe for quitting. And, you know, if you're a regular listener

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to the show that I have a segment called Because of My Podcast.

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So when I ask Albin, I go, is there anything that has happened

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to you because of your podcast? And here's what he had to say. I think

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the best thing about podcasting for me has been, it

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helps me articulate my thoughts. You can probably listen to

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seasons of buzzcaster episode after episode where we'll talk about similar

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things and yet, by going through the

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practice of writing out your thoughts and

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sketching things and then kind of trying to express it on air, then I

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go do a guest interview and then I go, oh, you know, the way Dave

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asked that question helped me articulate something I believed.

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And it's only by the act of creation

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that I really understand. That's what I really think. And

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so, I think that is something that's happened because of my podcast.

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And he mentioned Buzzcast. I'll have a link to that out at school of

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podcasting.com/928. And one of the things that's fun about

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that show is they experiment, not a ton, but they do

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experiment, case in point, after the main part of their show

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is over. And the bit after is always going to

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be something unrelated to podcasting. We just recorded

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yesterday, and it's about, you know, we talked about my experience,

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seeing the solar eclipse a few days ago. You know, there might be one

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about Kevin training for a run or Jordan doing

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an art class or something. It'll just be, like, hey, here's something that's going on

248
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in my life that I found humorous or somewhat podcasting. And,

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yes, we're always experimenting with the show and,

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sometimes, they're very intentional, like, maybe we're trying to humanize

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the show so that people feel a little bit more connection. Sometimes, it's

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just being dictated by fun or let's try something,

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and if something works, then we can start recommending

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it to people who host on Buzzsprout, because we need to

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learn, like, what is actually working for podcasting by

256
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experimenting. And one of the things I wanna point out here, notice

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that they do this at the end where their super listeners

258
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are. If you story off with, hey, let's talk about, I don't

259
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know, socks. Yeah. Socks. I asked him. I go, have you gotten

260
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any feedback from the end of the show where you're just kinda

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talking? Jordan just went off on something about, you know, she needed to get

262
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a new pair of socks or because she had a hole in one. And I

263
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was, like, oh, you wanna hear about socks? I've gone down a deep rabbit hole

264
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of learning about socks. And I story talking about alpaca

265
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versus merino wool versus nylon

266
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And we have this segment of me telling what I'd learned about socks and what

267
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I bought. And then, for multiple episodes,

268
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we had people texting into the show, giving their sock recommendations

269
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or asking for more feedback and they wanted to know the

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exact brand because some people are gonna buy them and it

271
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helps build the community of the show because

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we're all, you know, experts and I'm doing air quotes here.

273
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Experts in Podcasting. And for some of the people who are listening

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to the show, they're true beginners in Podcasting. And I think it can

275
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feel a little intimidating to be like, oh, I wanna reach out to the show

276
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and talk Podcasting. But they know I'm not a SOC

277
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expert and they know that Kevin is not a running

278
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expert. So they can share their feedback on those areas and

279
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it's much easier for us to have a community. And when I hear them

280
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experiment, sometimes I go, That might be something I wanna use

281
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on my show. And one of the things that caught my eye

282
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slash ears was they're now integrating texting

283
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into their show. Years ago, we set up something called Slick

284
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Text. And Slick Text was, we were

285
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using it for communicating with our own customers at

286
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Podcast Movement. Bunch of people came, and I just wanna be

287
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able to text, like, hey, Tom's going in to, you know, give his talk. Come

288
00:18:00,105 --> 00:18:03,760
on over. We're all meeting up at this restaurant. We're gonna buy food

289
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and drinks for everybody. Come meet us. And some

290
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people subscribe to the text line. And we just done that for

291
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Podfest. And I was, like, I think there's something easier about

292
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texting than emailing or recording a voice

293
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message. So I just put the number into our show

294
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notes and said, hey, text the show. And we

295
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talked about it on the show and I think that week, we got 10 people

296
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who texted us. Then we get 2

297
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to 3000 downloads an episode, and so that was

298
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a pretty good number. And then I experimented

299
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with it more, and we figured out how to actually link the number so that

300
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it would automatically open your messages. We figured

301
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out ways to communicate back to our audience.

302
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We started the segment where we are reading all the text and

303
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commenting about them. And over time, it's

304
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become a very popular way for people to reach out to the show.

305
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The only downside, and we need to figure out a solution for

306
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this is that Slick Text is, like, $30 a

307
00:19:09,809 --> 00:19:13,169
month. I think at the very low end, so it's not a great

308
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solution, but, hopefully, we'll find out something that'll be a bit more

309
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economical. And if you're brand new to Buzzsprout and wondering what

310
00:19:20,665 --> 00:19:23,565
the heck it is, you're gonna find out right after this.

311
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Back on episode number 793, I went over

312
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what is a media host and what's the difference between this

313
00:19:33,034 --> 00:19:36,875
one and that one and choosing which one you like. And, of course, I have

314
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a free course on that. If you go to school of podcasting.com/

315
00:19:40,790 --> 00:19:44,630
free courses, you'll see that one of them is it gets you to kinda

316
00:19:44,630 --> 00:19:48,285
test the tires on Buzzsprout, on Captivate, on

317
00:19:48,285 --> 00:19:51,725
Libsyn. And I need to add Blueberry to that. When I made that course, they

318
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were doing a major overhaul of their back end.

319
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But Buzzsprout has launched some new features. One of

320
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them was a new iOS app, and I understand an

321
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Android version is coming. So I asked Alba about

322
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what was the genesis of this podcast app. For a long

323
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time, we said, why do you need a phone app? Because

324
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so many people would say, Buzzsprout is great, but I'd like an app. We're, like,

325
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we'll make the mobile experience even better. And they'd write

326
00:20:20,845 --> 00:20:23,245
in again and say, yeah, but it would be great if it's an app. I'm,

327
00:20:23,245 --> 00:20:26,765
like, well, what about progressive web app? Oh, no. No. No.

328
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We we want an app. And I think we were

329
00:20:30,170 --> 00:20:34,010
slow on the uptake because for a long time, we said, no. It doesn't make

330
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sense. It doesn't make sense. And, eventually, our

331
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customers and, you know, just the use cases changed

332
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and it all started to fall online. And so there are really

333
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I wanna say maybe 4 things that convinced me,

334
00:20:49,690 --> 00:20:52,910
okay, having an app makes a lot of sense.

335
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The first are notifications. Phones are really good

336
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at real time notifications. We pretty much leaned

337
00:21:00,955 --> 00:21:04,660
on email for all of our notifications. Hey, you got some opportunities and buzz

338
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for ads. We updated your your episode is now

339
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published. Oh, we've got some ideas for you with Co

340
00:21:12,154 --> 00:21:15,654
Host AI or AI tool. You know, lots of different

341
00:21:15,654 --> 00:21:19,250
monetization, your weekly stats review. Oh, here, check out what

342
00:21:19,250 --> 00:21:23,010
happened this week to your podcast. All of those were going

343
00:21:23,010 --> 00:21:26,610
into email, but it's so much better to get those in real time so you

344
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can take immediate action. So, notifications was 1, but

345
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still not big enough for us. Then number 2 was

346
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stats. Now, I don't like the idea of them being this,

347
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like, habitual coming back, feeding you the stats

348
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addiction. But what stats are really good for is if

349
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you're running marketing campaigns. It's really

350
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valuable for you to see in real time. Okay. I

351
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just started this ad on Overcast. I'm now seeing

352
00:21:55,940 --> 00:21:59,780
Overcast going up. Okay. Now I'm going to put more money behind

353
00:21:59,780 --> 00:22:03,515
it. We're advertising on Twitter. Nothing is changing.

354
00:22:03,975 --> 00:22:07,575
I'm starting to think I'm targeting incorrectly before I start

355
00:22:07,575 --> 00:22:11,270
spending a bunch of money. So stats that

356
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are easily accessible are really good, but the positive side of

357
00:22:15,110 --> 00:22:18,815
stats is motivation. I recently started a

358
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new blog where I was just kind of blogging about my own things.

359
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And the first few days, I got 3 or 4 reads. And I

360
00:22:26,760 --> 00:22:30,120
was, like, woah. This is really cool. Then I was checking next day and I

361
00:22:30,120 --> 00:22:33,875
got 6 reads. And I was so excited by those. If

362
00:22:33,875 --> 00:22:37,655
we publish a video and it gets less than 5,000 views, I'm going,

363
00:22:37,715 --> 00:22:41,475
oh, bummer. I wish it'd be bigger, but there was something about it

364
00:22:41,475 --> 00:22:44,740
being new. And even though the numbers were relatively

365
00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:47,700
small, I was very encouraged by them.

366
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So I hope that these stats are encouraging, not habitual.

367
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And then last 2 real quick, sharing is so much more

368
00:22:55,904 --> 00:22:58,705
easy on mobile because if you're sharing to,

369
00:22:59,880 --> 00:23:03,559
social media or taking a screenshot of your stats to celebrate on

370
00:23:03,559 --> 00:23:07,294
Instagram or sharing a link to an episode on Twitter, whatever

371
00:23:07,294 --> 00:23:10,975
it may be, that makes so much more sense because it's on your phone.

372
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Now, it's sharing from your phone to your phone. And

373
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podcast management, I can't tell you, like, the first day we

374
00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:22,440
launched. Somebody wrote in and went, oh, this is so good. I

375
00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:26,005
realized I hadn't published on time And so I was able to publish my

376
00:23:26,005 --> 00:23:29,684
episode while I was driving into work. I was, like, okay. Not while you're

377
00:23:29,684 --> 00:23:33,470
driving to work. Auto accidents are up in the

378
00:23:33,470 --> 00:23:37,309
US and this is why, but I would love for you to

379
00:23:37,309 --> 00:23:41,045
get to work and say, now I'm empowered to publish. Or if you

380
00:23:41,045 --> 00:23:44,725
publish and you've got a typo or you missed a link to

381
00:23:44,725 --> 00:23:48,350
some resource you talked about, go update it

382
00:23:48,350 --> 00:23:52,030
right away, and you're done. One of the

383
00:23:52,030 --> 00:23:55,870
features that I love that is now has a new version

384
00:23:55,870 --> 00:23:59,455
in podcasting 2.0 is chapters. If you listen to

385
00:23:59,455 --> 00:24:03,215
many of my episodes where I have multiple topics, you can skip from topic

386
00:24:03,215 --> 00:24:07,029
to topic to topic. And one of the things that Buzzsprout has

387
00:24:07,250 --> 00:24:11,090
is the ability to add a pre growth. So this is some sort

388
00:24:11,090 --> 00:24:14,785
of clip, typically fairly story. And then there's also

389
00:24:14,785 --> 00:24:18,565
a post roll. So this is one when the show is officially done.

390
00:24:18,785 --> 00:24:22,305
We're at the absolute end. You can tack on another

391
00:24:22,305 --> 00:24:25,830
message. And, again, this can be as long as in short

392
00:24:25,970 --> 00:24:29,670
as you want. And so what I was worried about, I kind of assumed this.

393
00:24:29,730 --> 00:24:31,309
But I said, wait. What if you have everything set up and you've made your

394
00:24:31,309 --> 00:24:32,470
chapters so everybody thinks, hey, this is gonna start at the 2 minute mark.

395
00:24:37,552 --> 00:24:38,052
Yeah

396
00:24:41,850 --> 00:24:45,370
Yeah. We would we would update that time stamp. That's a pretty bad,

397
00:24:45,690 --> 00:24:49,049
user experience if all your chapters were

398
00:24:49,049 --> 00:24:52,495
instantly ruined the second you updated it with any dynamic

399
00:24:52,555 --> 00:24:55,995
content or ads or anything. So a pre roll, a post roll,

400
00:24:55,995 --> 00:24:59,695
anything, all of those time stamps are stored relatively.

401
00:25:00,429 --> 00:25:04,029
And you'll hear us talk about dynamic content. So many times people

402
00:25:04,029 --> 00:25:07,789
think dynamic must be ads, but I have a show

403
00:25:07,789 --> 00:25:11,155
on Buzzsprout. I also have a show on Blueberry, on Captivate,

404
00:25:11,775 --> 00:25:15,235
on Libsyn, Red Circle. I think that's all of them. Because

405
00:25:15,830 --> 00:25:19,310
not only am I a Libsyn employee, I'm also a podcast consultant. So I try

406
00:25:19,310 --> 00:25:22,790
to keep up with everyone. And what I'm doing

407
00:25:22,790 --> 00:25:26,145
with the post growth is I actually end my

408
00:25:26,145 --> 00:25:29,505
show. Now if you wanna hear this, go

409
00:25:29,505 --> 00:25:33,169
to podcastingresources.net. The show is

410
00:25:33,169 --> 00:25:37,010
creatively called Podcasting Resources. And between you and me, not one

411
00:25:37,010 --> 00:25:39,990
of my best shows. It's really just me playing with Buzzsprout.

412
00:25:40,715 --> 00:25:44,395
But I'll talk about a resource. And then instead of

413
00:25:44,395 --> 00:25:48,155
saying, hey. Welcome to the show. Whatever. I basically or not welcome, but, hey. That's

414
00:25:48,155 --> 00:25:51,740
it for the show. What I do is, like, hey. There's one more resource I

415
00:25:51,740 --> 00:25:55,340
wanna talk about. It's the school of podcasting. And then I do the

416
00:25:55,340 --> 00:25:58,945
typical ending of my show. Now granted, that's the same ending

417
00:25:58,945 --> 00:26:02,545
over and over and over, but I could easily swap out that

418
00:26:02,545 --> 00:26:06,360
post role. So realize dynamic content does not

419
00:26:06,360 --> 00:26:10,200
always have to be an ad. Now the other fun

420
00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:13,895
thing about dynamic content is they

421
00:26:13,895 --> 00:26:17,655
also update your show notes. So if I change 1

422
00:26:17,655 --> 00:26:21,350
post story or pre roll, it updates my show notes.

423
00:26:21,510 --> 00:26:25,110
And you're touching on another one of my babies in the

424
00:26:25,110 --> 00:26:28,934
Buzzsprout app. So we built into Buzzsprout what we

425
00:26:28,934 --> 00:26:32,534
call show notes footer and you go

426
00:26:32,534 --> 00:26:35,735
into your show notes and you click it and you open it up and you

427
00:26:35,735 --> 00:26:39,480
say, you know, Dave Jackson and here's my

428
00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:43,320
socials that I enjoy and here's the school podcasting link

429
00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:47,035
and here's my LinkedIn where you can learn more about me, whatever.

430
00:26:47,175 --> 00:26:50,855
But you put it in 1 and instantly, that

431
00:26:50,855 --> 00:26:54,670
is going to be on all of your episodes. Because the

432
00:26:54,670 --> 00:26:58,430
minute that Elon Musk says, it's actually called x now, you don't

433
00:26:58,430 --> 00:27:01,810
wanna go change that across 50 episodes.

434
00:27:02,275 --> 00:27:05,875
The minute that you say, I'm actually using TikTok a lot more and I wanna

435
00:27:05,875 --> 00:27:09,415
push people there, well, you don't wanna go update that in 55

436
00:27:09,555 --> 00:27:13,300
spots. Well, now with the, description footer, you

437
00:27:13,300 --> 00:27:17,140
can just go in there, make that change, and it shows up in all of

438
00:27:17,140 --> 00:27:20,595
your episodes. Another thing that Buzzsprout has is

439
00:27:20,595 --> 00:27:24,275
Buzzsprout ads, and this is where you can buy advertising on

440
00:27:24,275 --> 00:27:27,600
other shows. There's been a lot of talk about how

441
00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:31,380
podcasting can do promo swaps. And some of the

442
00:27:31,380 --> 00:27:35,059
downside of promo swaps is they're a little bit arduous to set

443
00:27:35,059 --> 00:27:38,875
up. You know, you're trying to find someone, you're trying to find someone who's

444
00:27:38,875 --> 00:27:42,415
about the same audience type, the same show

445
00:27:42,475 --> 00:27:46,169
type, they're similar, but also about the same size because

446
00:27:46,630 --> 00:27:50,470
if you're getting 10,000 downloads and I'm getting 2, it's not really a

447
00:27:50,470 --> 00:27:54,245
fair trade for us both to promote each other. With

448
00:27:54,245 --> 00:27:58,085
Buzzsprout ads, you can just go on and through the power of

449
00:27:58,085 --> 00:28:01,850
money, being the universal currency that you

450
00:28:01,850 --> 00:28:05,610
can just go on and buy downloads and shows and you can

451
00:28:05,610 --> 00:28:09,370
go in and you can pick this is the story, these are the shows

452
00:28:09,370 --> 00:28:13,035
that I'm interested in, and the shows can say, oh, you have

453
00:28:13,035 --> 00:28:16,655
really good compelling, trailer.

454
00:28:16,875 --> 00:28:20,520
I align with the show. I accept it. And now,

455
00:28:20,580 --> 00:28:24,100
the money will go directly to those podcasting, and the

456
00:28:24,100 --> 00:28:27,875
show will automatically get the ad for your podcast.

457
00:28:27,934 --> 00:28:31,615
They'll get it'll automatically get links to your podcasting.

458
00:28:31,615 --> 00:28:35,075
And so, pretty much at scale, you can start getting

459
00:28:35,135 --> 00:28:38,929
promos into other people's podcasting. And if you wanna know more about

460
00:28:38,929 --> 00:28:41,830
Buzzsprout, again, you can go to school of podcasting.com/279.

461
00:28:43,490 --> 00:28:47,294
I'll have links to free courses I have on that. And I asked

462
00:28:47,294 --> 00:28:51,135
Alvin about, you know, back in the day when he was first starting

463
00:28:51,135 --> 00:28:54,890
out, kind of, like, maybe you, you had a little

464
00:28:54,890 --> 00:28:58,670
bit of a hurdle to get over. My biggest hang up when I started podcasting

465
00:28:58,970 --> 00:29:02,675
was imagining friends and

466
00:29:02,675 --> 00:29:06,355
family. Like, I'd imagine specific people from high school or

467
00:29:06,355 --> 00:29:09,880
college and be like, if they see this link and they

468
00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:13,640
listen, they're probably gonna think, man, Alvin is so full of himself.

469
00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:17,080
He started a podcast. Oh my gosh. He sounds like an

470
00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:20,925
idiot. I was just imagining these people. And I think

471
00:29:20,925 --> 00:29:24,445
it was, you know, my way of being, like, I'm not gonna put

472
00:29:24,445 --> 00:29:28,080
myself out there. I'm not gonna say what I really think. It's gonna be embarrassing.

473
00:29:28,140 --> 00:29:31,740
So I just want to not do it. And once I got

474
00:29:31,740 --> 00:29:35,495
over that hurdle, it got a lot easier and I found myself

475
00:29:35,495 --> 00:29:39,255
becoming less judgmental towards other people because we

476
00:29:39,255 --> 00:29:42,919
all start at the same place of just being bad

477
00:29:42,919 --> 00:29:46,120
at stuff. I was not good at podcasting when I started. I was not good

478
00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:49,285
in video when I started. I was not good in newsletters when I started. I

479
00:29:49,285 --> 00:29:52,185
was not good at dancing yet, actually.

480
00:29:53,205 --> 00:29:56,825
So you just start out as a beginner and you get better

481
00:29:56,965 --> 00:30:00,419
the more you do something. And last, but not least,

482
00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:04,100
if Albin has one pet peeve, what is it?

483
00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:08,100
Looking down on other Podcasters for not doing

484
00:30:08,585 --> 00:30:12,345
similar style content. There's a lot of I think I go to Podcasting Movement

485
00:30:12,345 --> 00:30:16,184
or I go to Podcasting go to shows and, people are kinda like, you

486
00:30:16,184 --> 00:30:19,929
need to do this. You need to be promoting all the time or

487
00:30:19,929 --> 00:30:23,530
you need to be on video or a lot of

488
00:30:23,530 --> 00:30:26,475
times recently, I've even made these these jokes, you know, we don't need another 2

489
00:30:26,475 --> 00:30:30,315
guys sitting around having a beer just chatting about politics, you know. And it

490
00:30:30,315 --> 00:30:33,870
it for a long time, I was, like, we don't need that content. But, now,

491
00:30:33,870 --> 00:30:37,710
I think that's actually become a pet peeve. I'm, like, you know what? What

492
00:30:37,710 --> 00:30:41,095
better way for people to learn that they're, you know,

493
00:30:41,095 --> 00:30:44,554
drinking a beer, rambling about politics is not interesting

494
00:30:44,695 --> 00:30:48,215
than to start a podcast about it and let the marketplace of ideas tell

495
00:30:48,215 --> 00:30:51,090
them. People don't wanna hear it. I'm now,

496
00:30:51,730 --> 00:30:55,410
really hesitant to tell people, no. You shouldn't

497
00:30:55,410 --> 00:30:58,975
be creating because I think if you're creating content,

498
00:30:59,115 --> 00:31:02,715
and I really apply this to all mediums, not just podcasting. If

499
00:31:02,715 --> 00:31:06,330
you're creating content, you're gonna learn a lot about yourself. You're gonna learn a

500
00:31:06,330 --> 00:31:09,850
lot about the message that you have, and it's going to be good for

501
00:31:09,850 --> 00:31:13,665
you, regardless if you quit your job and you

502
00:31:13,665 --> 00:31:17,125
get to go do it full time, or you only ever get 50 downloads.

503
00:31:17,745 --> 00:31:21,445
It's still a really valuable thing for you. Albin Brook,

504
00:31:21,900 --> 00:31:25,580
head of marketing over at Buzzsprout. Thanks for coming on the show. Thank

505
00:31:25,580 --> 00:31:26,080
you.

506
00:31:29,935 --> 00:31:33,715
Super nice guy. So glad I made this happen,

507
00:31:33,775 --> 00:31:37,240
and thanks for Alvin again for, making it happen as well. School of

508
00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:40,840
podcasting.com/928. I love this

509
00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:44,300
take. And I've heard a few people now say this, how podcasting

510
00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:48,165
grows slower than most other media formats,

511
00:31:48,785 --> 00:31:52,625
but the connection is deeper. There was one thing that I was

512
00:31:52,625 --> 00:31:56,160
like, that I'm gonna throw in here. I agree

513
00:31:56,620 --> 00:32:00,380
that you can only get better at something by continuing

514
00:32:00,380 --> 00:32:03,705
to do it. I was doing Spanish lessons

515
00:32:03,845 --> 00:32:07,304
daily. I was using a service called Duolingo,

516
00:32:08,085 --> 00:32:11,710
and then I saw an offer from Babbel for, like, a lifetime

517
00:32:11,850 --> 00:32:15,230
deal. So I was like, oh, that's better in the long run,

518
00:32:15,929 --> 00:32:19,470
but I'm not doing my daily lessons like I used to. And so, consequently,

519
00:32:20,355 --> 00:32:24,115
besides I eat apples, which is your como manzanas, which I'm

520
00:32:24,115 --> 00:32:27,795
still now a little rusty on. Yeah. I'm not doing the Spanish thing. So you

521
00:32:27,795 --> 00:32:31,590
have to continue to do this. But there is one thing I wanna,

522
00:32:31,590 --> 00:32:35,290
like, asterisk on that. And that is you have to make sure

523
00:32:35,670 --> 00:32:39,424
you're going the right way. And what I mean by this

524
00:32:39,424 --> 00:32:43,265
is if I live in Akron, Ohio, if I'm driving to Cleveland and I

525
00:32:43,265 --> 00:32:46,325
head west, I am going in the wrong direction.

526
00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:51,120
And if somebody said, hey, like, are you at Cleveland yet? I'd be like,

527
00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:54,820
no. And they're like, oh, just keep going. Well, I would end up in California.

528
00:32:55,315 --> 00:32:58,615
I'm not going anywhere near Cleveland, Ohio. So,

529
00:32:58,754 --> 00:33:02,595
yes, keep going. If you've taken the time to get

530
00:33:02,595 --> 00:33:06,280
some people to give you some some honest truth about your show and say, wow.

531
00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:09,880
This part was really good. That part was amazing. The thing at the

532
00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:13,480
end, nah, not so much. You need that kind of

533
00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:16,905
information. And so if you haven't done

534
00:33:16,905 --> 00:33:20,665
that, then don't keep going because you might be

535
00:33:20,665 --> 00:33:24,490
going in the wrong way. Yeah. Yeah.

536
00:33:24,490 --> 00:33:27,390
Yeah. Hey. I had Katie Brinkley

537
00:33:28,250 --> 00:33:31,150
on the last episode. Go to school of podcasting.com/927.

538
00:33:32,975 --> 00:33:36,655
She's a social media guru. And in doing some

539
00:33:36,655 --> 00:33:40,015
research, because that's what I do wanna have guests on, I found

540
00:33:40,015 --> 00:33:43,480
out that Katie did something. I was like, well, I'm gonna borrow that

541
00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:47,100
idea. And that is if you've been interviewed,

542
00:33:47,855 --> 00:33:51,154
say, more than once, or you could do it with 1 if you wanted to,

543
00:33:51,455 --> 00:33:55,054
you can go into Spotify, find the podcast you appeared

544
00:33:55,054 --> 00:33:58,450
on, and add your track to a

545
00:33:58,450 --> 00:34:02,290
playlist. Then, here's an idea. If

546
00:34:02,290 --> 00:34:05,794
somebody says, hey. Would you like to come on the show? You could

547
00:34:05,794 --> 00:34:09,435
say, yes. And I use a tool called Brandly where I send

548
00:34:09,435 --> 00:34:13,135
them. And there's my headshot, my bio in 37 different flavors.

549
00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:16,880
Here's my logo. Everything they need, so I have a press

550
00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:20,720
kit. But I could also give them a link to the playlist and

551
00:34:20,720 --> 00:34:24,364
go, if you want to hear some of my other interviews,

552
00:34:24,904 --> 00:34:28,585
here's a playlist. Now that's cool for you. It's

553
00:34:28,585 --> 00:34:32,030
cool for the host, but it's also another way

554
00:34:32,410 --> 00:34:35,930
to pay back the person who had you on their

555
00:34:35,930 --> 00:34:39,310
show. And it's super simple to set up.

556
00:34:39,625 --> 00:34:43,085
And when I saw it, I was like, ah, that Katie Brinkley,

557
00:34:43,625 --> 00:34:47,385
she knows her stuff. That's a great idea. And, oh, the other thing is

558
00:34:47,385 --> 00:34:50,940
it's totally free. Takes maybe, I don't know, 10 minutes,

559
00:34:50,940 --> 00:34:54,560
maybe 20 if you've been on a few shows. And the great thing is,

560
00:34:55,020 --> 00:34:58,255
you can number 1, I don't. You can make it public. I don't know that

561
00:34:58,255 --> 00:35:02,015
I will let the public edit it because then somebody's gonna stick in

562
00:35:02,015 --> 00:35:05,589
their stuff because sometimes people are just stupid and marketers

563
00:35:05,589 --> 00:35:08,770
ruin everything. Is that true?

564
00:35:09,230 --> 00:35:12,270
But I I like the idea. I was like, hey. You know what? Never thought

565
00:35:12,270 --> 00:35:16,025
of that. And, again, if you wanna check out Katie's interview, check it

566
00:35:16,025 --> 00:35:16,765
out. Schoolofpodcasting.com/927.

567
00:35:19,625 --> 00:35:23,470
Yay. Yeah. Yeah. And Alban talked about post show things that

568
00:35:23,470 --> 00:35:27,230
they do. I have a section labeled bloopers, and,

569
00:35:27,230 --> 00:35:30,974
like, today's bloopers gonna be an hour long. Holy cow. My mouth is not

570
00:35:30,974 --> 00:35:34,515
working today. And I just want to point out, there are times

571
00:35:34,790 --> 00:35:38,310
in the bloopers, like last week, I gave you an actual money

572
00:35:38,310 --> 00:35:42,150
tip in the bloopers. So if you're not listening to the bloopers, you might

573
00:35:42,150 --> 00:35:45,985
be missing out on something. Now before we get to the bloopers, we

574
00:35:45,985 --> 00:35:49,445
got stuff like this. Couple housekeeping

575
00:35:49,745 --> 00:35:53,450
tips here. If you have been trying to order

576
00:35:53,450 --> 00:35:57,290
a review on the podcasting rodeo show, that is a show

577
00:35:57,290 --> 00:36:00,965
where I grab a random podcast and see how long I can hang on.

578
00:36:01,045 --> 00:36:04,805
Kind of a first impression type show. I had turned off

579
00:36:04,805 --> 00:36:08,585
the ability to order a review when I went to LA.

580
00:36:08,930 --> 00:36:12,230
And when it came back, I kinda forgot it was off.

581
00:36:12,610 --> 00:36:16,070
And so yeah. So if you go to podcast growth show

582
00:36:16,530 --> 00:36:20,195
dot com slash store, you can now order

583
00:36:20,195 --> 00:36:23,815
your review. And you wanna do that soon because that show is gonna get rebranded,

584
00:36:23,955 --> 00:36:27,575
and the price is going way up because it's ridiculously

585
00:36:27,795 --> 00:36:31,620
cheap right now. Also, a little heads up, in case you didn't know, in

586
00:36:31,620 --> 00:36:33,960
the last 7 days, $2,941

587
00:36:36,485 --> 00:36:39,705
of value for value have been streaming in the podcasting

588
00:36:39,845 --> 00:36:43,525
2.0 land. If your current media host isn't

589
00:36:43,525 --> 00:36:47,310
supporting podcasting 2.0, well, then email support and go,

590
00:36:47,310 --> 00:36:50,930
hey. When are you gonna start supporting podcasting 2.0?

591
00:36:52,030 --> 00:36:55,625
They typically build things that you ask for, and if you don't ask for it,

592
00:36:55,625 --> 00:36:59,385
you ain't gonna get it. And with that, we're gonna start

593
00:36:59,385 --> 00:37:02,825
wrapping it up, of course. If you wanna start a podcast, I would love to

594
00:37:02,825 --> 00:37:05,370
help you. Simply go to school of podcasting.com/listener

595
00:37:07,350 --> 00:37:10,790
or use the coupon code listener when you sign up for either a

596
00:37:10,790 --> 00:37:14,635
monthly or yearly subscription. Get access to

597
00:37:14,635 --> 00:37:18,234
the coaching which is unlimited. Yes.

598
00:37:18,234 --> 00:37:21,940
Means, if you wanna meet with me on Monday and then Wednesday, I just

599
00:37:21,940 --> 00:37:25,700
tell everybody, if it's available, take it. You've got the courses, the

600
00:37:25,700 --> 00:37:29,325
step by step. We've got the free courses I mentioned if you're wanting to

601
00:37:29,325 --> 00:37:32,045
dip your toe in it. But if you're worried about it, you don't because you

602
00:37:32,045 --> 00:37:35,885
have a 30 day money back guarantee. If you think there's

603
00:37:35,885 --> 00:37:39,609
a catch, there isn't. In fact, I've had probably 5

604
00:37:39,609 --> 00:37:42,910
people from the School of Podcasting in the last 3 months go, Dave,

605
00:37:43,825 --> 00:37:47,425
you really need to raise your prices. And I am meeting with, a

606
00:37:47,425 --> 00:37:51,105
business coach that I bounce ideas off here, very

607
00:37:51,105 --> 00:37:54,900
soon. Can't promise anything, but it's just something I'm thinking

608
00:37:54,900 --> 00:37:58,660
about. So I would love to work with you, and that can be

609
00:37:58,660 --> 00:38:02,404
anywhere from, look, I don't know what the podcasting about to I'm already

610
00:38:02,404 --> 00:38:06,164
going, how do I growth, I'm already grown, I got an audience, how do I

611
00:38:06,164 --> 00:38:09,785
monetize. I handle everybody. It's all there. Schoolofpodcasting.com

612
00:38:09,785 --> 00:38:13,620
podcasting listener. Until next

613
00:38:13,620 --> 00:38:17,300
week, thank you so much for listening. I do appreciate

614
00:38:17,300 --> 00:38:20,795
it. Take care. God bless. Class is dismissed.

615
00:38:33,829 --> 00:38:37,565
And the show is at papa where is it at?

616
00:38:37,565 --> 00:38:38,705
That's a good one. Podcastingpodcastingresources.net.

617
00:38:43,299 --> 00:38:47,140
The show is creatively called Podcasting Resources. For the record,

618
00:38:47,140 --> 00:38:50,579
not one of my better shows. It's really just me playing son of a

619
00:38:52,215 --> 00:38:55,835
And so that podcast is called Best Podcasting.

620
00:38:55,975 --> 00:38:59,720
It's not called Best. It's just called Jeez. You don't know the name of your

621
00:38:59,720 --> 00:39:02,700
show? And I switched from Duolingo

622
00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:06,765
to the other one, not Beelzebub.

623
00:39:07,465 --> 00:39:10,925
That's a something it's something to do with dudes. It's not it's the other one.

624
00:39:12,744 --> 00:39:16,390
Oh, jeez. What is it called? Babble.

625
00:39:16,610 --> 00:39:20,310
Of course. Something with a b. I was close. Do I get any points?

626
00:39:20,369 --> 00:39:24,155
No. The judges say no. But when I saw

627
00:39:24,155 --> 00:39:27,755
that, I was like, ah, there that Katie girl, she's pretty

628
00:39:27,755 --> 00:39:31,455
smart. She's a thinker, that one. That sound is that racist?

629
00:39:31,790 --> 00:39:35,310
That's wait. You can't say that. If your host isn't

630
00:39:35,310 --> 00:39:39,150
supporting supporting? If your house is see, it's just my

631
00:39:39,150 --> 00:39:42,975
mouth has just left early. I know. I'm not done yet.

632
00:39:42,975 --> 00:39:44,275
Don't leave me mouth.