18. Search for Continuing Validation with Brock Briggs

Tim McCarthy  0:16  

Hello and welcome to the Scuttlebutt podcast. A little plot twist today. I will be the main host. I’m Tim and our very special guest is usually the host, Brock Briggs. Brock, welcome to your own show.

Brock Briggs  0:33  

Thank you so much. I've literally never been more excited to be here than today.

Tim McCarthy 0:40  

Yeah, this will be good, man. We'll give the listeners an opportunity to kind of jump in and figure out more about you since you're the one who's usually asking all the questions. Now, it's my turn. And we get to find out about you. Because I think that there's some good stuff to be able to unpack here. So I'm excited about it. Obviously, I know you probably arguably better than anyone. If Aubrey is listening to this, your fiancée, if I'm right. And so let's just jump right into it. Give us the backstory on the military and why you joined and let's start there.

Brock Briggs 1:17  

Yeah. Okay, so I had, this feels so weird already being on the other side of this. It's like, this is the hard job. Not really the hosting. Yeah, so I had kind of military influences, like very early on. There's something about so many people in my family, like have served. My dad was in the Navy, uncles in the army, all multiple aunts and uncles have all served. So that was like a pretty common career path for people in my family. 

And my dad was constantly telling me about how great the Navy was. And he got to see the world and do all these things. And so that was like such a bug in my ear from very, very early on. High school, I was interested in it, certainly. And coming up into graduation, I actually had applied for an ROTC scholarship, because I was like, okay, like, I wanna do the Navy. All of my friends were like talking about college and something just didn't seem right about college. To me, I was just like, I don't, what am I gonna do there like, learn more? You do more learning in college. 

And that was very, like pressured because I, as we'll see here in a few minutes, like didn't do that well in college. But yeah, I didn't really sit right with me. I was like, I'm gonna go join the Navy, not do what everybody else is doing. But I wanna be an officer. I knew that kind of from right off the bat. And so I applied for the ROTC scholarship. And it kind of actually a weird, funny story. Not very many people have heard this, but I actually got accepted. I got a letter in the mail. 

Tim McCarthy

Really?

Brock Briggs

Yeah

Tim McCarthy

Wow

Brock Briggs

Well, there's a funny twist here. So I get the letter in the mail. And when you apply for an ROTC scholarship, you select the schools that you'd like to go to. So living in Boise, I was like, I wanna go to University of Idaho. Put a couple other universities in Washington and other places in the Pacific Northwest. So I get the letter in the mail. And it's like, congrats, you've been accepted, blah, blah, blah. Here are your college choices. And in the college choices, it was all colleges that I didn't put, it was like University of Alabama, like a bunch of like Southern schools, Alabama, Tennessee.

And I was just like, this is super weird, but like maybe none of the schools that I selected were available. Didn't really understand, took the letter down to the recruiter because I had kind of been in contact with the recruiter already. 

Tim McCarthy

Sure

Brock Briggs

And they like started looking into it. And it turns out like it was a different Brock Briggs that had gotten accepted. And it was somebody that. Dude, I was crushed. 

Tim McCarthy

Oh my gosh!

Brock Briggs

I was so mad. And I was like, how the hell does this even happen? Like literally, it was literally Brock H. Briggs. I just couldn't even believe the unlikelihood of that.

Tim McCarthy  4:31  

Yeah, yeah. Well, Brock is such a unique name. That's crazy.

Brock Briggs  4:35  

Literally saying first, middle, initial, last name, like I don't know. Hopefully that Brock Briggs is listening because I'm upset with you.

Tim McCarthy  4:45  

We have a bone to pick with you Brock H. Briggs.

Brock Briggs  4:48  

Right. So yeah, that was like a really bad taste in my mouth and I got really upset about it. And I was like, you know, I don't need the military. I'll just go kind of the more traditional route. Didn't really have the money to go to like an out of state school or even something there, like local, that traditional college experience. 

And so I just applied to the local university Boise State, was living at home, kind of some early turmoil at my household led me to like leaving home pretty early and started living with some friends and just did a semester or two, I think maybe at Boise State. And my grades definitely, like really reflected how non-invested I was in it, not really showing up to class a lot, didn't just really care. 

And part of that may have been like not living on campus. You know, I was kind of having like my own friends and was very disconnected from, you know. Some universities actually require first years to stay on campus. And I think it's for this reason.

Tim McCarthy

Yeah

Brock Briggs

They want to get you plugged in around other people that are studying and I just like didn't, and that's not an excuse, I just didn't do well.

Tim McCarthy  6:11  

Did you do well in high school? I mean, I assume so. Like if you got accepted to BSU and stuff like that, like, I'm just thinking back for myself. Like there's no way in hell, I would have gotten accepted into BSU with my high school grades. Did you do well in high school?

Brock Briggs  6:27  

I mean, they accept literally dogs to BSU. So no, I think that the entry requirements were like super low.

Tim McCarthy

Okay

Brock Briggs

It may have been like, a 2.5 GPA or something. So I was like, maybe an average student, I guess. 

Tim McCarthy

Okay. You did your homework and you passed tests. 

Brock Briggs

Yeah, I wasn't like failing out of anything. But I also wasn't on like, the super fast track. It was kind of tough because it was hard to gauge really where I was because I actually started school very, like a year early. So I was really, really young compared to everybody in my class. 

And I also went to a private school my entire life. And so my class of 56 people, like there, the school was really expensive. And my parents busted their backs to like, put us into this, like, nice school. And everybody in there was super smart. Or at least most people in my grade, so I was like, average, really.

Tim McCarthy

Yeah, yeah. Gotcha. I bet in like a public school you would have been would have been top of the class maybe? 

Brock Briggs

Maybe slightly more out. 

Tim McCarthy

Yeah

Brock Briggs

Better than average. But yeah, I don’t know, 3.0. 

Tim McCarthy

Okay, sure. 

Brock Briggs

So yeah, get into college. And I'm, like, kind of running with my own crowd, do like a semester or two. And it just like, wasn't good. 

Tim McCarthy

Sure

Brock Briggs

Wasn't doing well. Was like, this isn't maybe all like, everybody talks about like your gap year or like, take a year off to just like, figure out like, that's such bullshit. 

Tim McCarthy

Oh, yeah.

Brock Briggs

Like, you're never coming back, you know. But that's like, what everybody talks about. They're like, “Oh, I'm gonna take a year off to do this.” Like, “No, you're not.” So at that time, like I said, kind of due to some other circumstances, I was no longer at home, was living with a friend of mine who had a job, him and his girlfriend had a job. And I didn't and they were like, “Well, you can come live with us and we'll help you get on your feet.” 

And so I moved in with them and the guy ended up getting me a job at a call center down the road it was like. And at this point, I was just in a bad shape like I dropped out of college, had no money like nothing to my name, no car. It just like wasn't really a good picture and these two friends of mine were kind of like now paying for my way and like covering my rent. And yeah, looking back, I haven't really thought about this for a while but that was kind of a dark spot. 

Tim McCarthy

Yeah, yeah.

Brock Briggs

To me, that's for sure. But I got, the guy ended up getting me a job at the call center down the road which looking back that I don't know there's so many call centers in Boise. There's so many and they all pay like way above minimum wage. So when you can start there at like nine bucks an hour, that was better than like 7.25 at McDonald's or whatever. So really felt like I was something and immediately got embraced. 

And just like it's a young person's culture there. It's a young partying lifestyle. There's a lot of like older tenured people that work there who have maybe worked there for 20 years. But for the most part, it's like 18 to 25 year old kids that are just like, partying and having a good time and like making good money or good money for that age and no experience. 

Tim McCarthy

Yeah

Brock Briggs

In the process, so it was a good thing and a bad thing. Hindsight, it was a bad thing, because I didn't realize how, like I was super impressionable, and like, you kind of at that age

Tim McCarthy

Of course, yeah. 

Brock Briggs

You'll take on, like, whatever you're thrown into. 

Tim McCarthy

You're just trying to figure it out, so it's like, wherever you end up. Sometimes you're like, “Yeah, this is it. Like I found my calling.”

Brock Briggs 11:01  

Right. Well, it was especially more interesting, too, because growing up in a Christian household, we went to church every Sunday, like I said, I was in a private school. And then all of a sudden, I moved in with these two people who were, they had tattoos and piercings. And I don't know, just kind of like counterculture type of people. 

Tim McCarthy

Yeah

Brock Briggs

And one of them worked at the call center, and the other one worked at a restaurant. And they're just kind of like making it in their young adult lives. Which was really funny, because in high school, all my friend group in high school was friends with these people who they didn't go to the same school. And everybody looked up to them, kind of because they were like, making it as adults. You know, they didn't go to college thing. They were kind of like throwing up the middle finger to college and all of that. 

So they were idolized a little bit for like

Tim McCarthy

Sure

Brock Briggs

Having this perception of making it. But so being kind of like in a sheltered home relatively, and then being thrown into that I was like, “Oh, man, this is cool.” Like, drinking and like, I went, got my first tattoo at 17. And I was like, “Man, I'm a badass,” and like all of that stuff. But yeah, it was fun. You know, what isn't there to like? It's living with your friends and just hanging out all the time. At the call center, I actually did like relatively well. 

Tim McCarthy

Yeah

Brock Briggs

Spent a year there as just like taking regular phone calls, made a bunch of friends, quickly kind of made a name for myself in the building, somebody that just was very mouthy, not really accepted by much of the management. But like, was good at my job. 

And so whatever. I promoted quickly, about a year I became a supervisor there and ended up spending like another three years there as a supervisor, which was good. This is the hindsight talking. I didn't realize any of this at the time. But in hindsight, I learned so much about like people, how to lead a team. At 19 years old, had a guy on my team that had a Master's in Computer Science that was like in his 40s on my team. 

Tim McCarthy

Wow. Yeah. 

Brock Briggs

And then everything ranging from that to like, other 18 year old kids who like had never had a job. And so quickly learned, like how to build a cohesive team and I really, really enjoyed the people aspect of that. Learned customer service and all the things that roll into that, but I really liked the team element of that. Kind of all the meanwhile, the entire time was kind of a steady march downhill in terms of like habits. 

Tim McCarthy

Yeah

Brock Briggs

Really not good financial management was, like most people, you're living paycheck to paycheck. You're and the thing is, is you're making really good money for that age, you know.

Tim McCarthy

Yeah

Brock Briggs

You're splitting an apartment with three people but you're making 1200 bucks every two weeks and you know, that's plenty of money for booze and whatever and sadly, kind of just like marched down the wrong pathway in terms of like drugs and alcohol and yeah, it just developed some not good habits.

Tim McCarthy 14:52  

I'm like thinking about like at that age me working at BestBuy. And that's like, 1200 dollars every two weeks, that's more than we were making in bootcamp. Like that's like

Brock Briggs

Oh yeah

Tim McCarthy

That's like half of that's like two times as much as double the amount of money you make, like when you first join as anyone. 

Brock Briggs

Oh, yeah

Tim McCarthy

Like that, thinking back, that is a lot of money for 18, 19 year old kid.

Brock Briggs

Right

Tim McCarthy

And at that time, like back then up, I'm assuming apartments were cheap. They're expensive now here in Boise. But back then, I mean, what were you paying, a couple 100 bucks?

Brock Briggs  15:31  

I think that my portion of the rent was, it must have been two maybe 300. 

Tim McCarthy

Yeah

Brock Briggs

Like, I mean, you can't get an apartment for that cheap in Boise anymore. 

Tim McCarthy

No

Brock Briggs

But yeah, as like a percentage of income. Yeah, I have like no idea where the rest of the money went.

Tim McCarthy  15:49  

Well, booze and drugs 

Brock Briggs

Right

Tim McCarthy

And being the cool guy who's making a lot of money at that age.

Brock Briggs 15:56  

Right. Yeah. And the people element really encouraged that. Like, there was this whole dynamic of, for a much of the time there, I worked like the late shift, like three to midnight or whatever. And there's just this kind of understanding that you were going out afterwards, you know. Like, what bar are we going to when we get off work? Or what kind of weird like, you just kind of like the birds of a feather kind of come together, you know. 

And that's empowering to have that it kind of makes you feel like you're invincible in a way. You got your crew and you're like, “Oh, we talked about this in your interview.” I've got the best friends that I've ever had. And these people would take a bullet for me and 

Tim McCarthy

Yeah

Brock Briggs

They fucking won’t, at all. 

Tim McCarthy

Yeah 

Brock Briggs

But yeah, it's like that facade of like, what I thought were good friends. I kind of it blinded me to going down the rabbit hole of like, spending a lot of time with drugs, really.

Tim McCarthy  17:06  

And did your parents? Like, obviously you're not living with them at this time. But did, are your parents telling you anything? Like are they vocal about like, the path that you're going down? Do they not really know?

Brock Briggs  17:21  

One, they didn't really know. And I just like, didn't really talk to him that much. 

Tim McCarthy

Yeah 

Brock Briggs

We like had sort of after leaving home it like a year or two later, we kind of had like, reconciled a little bit. But it wasn't like we weren't close or anything. They didn't really, I lived for the first little bit, I lived in an apartment that was like a mile away. But then I was kind of doing my own thing, you know. 

Tim McCarthy

Yeah, yeah.

Brock Briggs

And we lived in the same town, but I just didn't have a lot of reason to one, be talking to them or two, why would I be telling them about what I was doing?

Tim McCarthy  17:58  

Sure. Sure.

Brock Briggs  18:01  

So yeah, really just kind of went down that hill, in a bad way. And it just bums me out to even talk about it because it's embarrassing. And but, you know, it is what it is. 

Tim McCarthy  18:19  

Yeah. I mean, it's that kind of stuff that you either you make it or you keep going down that path. And clearly you, I mean, it made you the guy you are now and that's a damn good, dude. So don't no reason to be embarrassed about it. You know what I mean? It's part of your path.

Brock Briggs 18:37  

Yeah, well, and I think that my big takeaway is or the thing that I'm most thankful for, I don't know that I would choose to go down all of that again. But I'm incredibly thankful that I didn't get in trouble. Because subsequently, nothing really happened while I was there, but we'll kind of get to this in a second. But after I left for the Navy, several of my friends ended up going to jail for different related activities and I just looking back on that I was like, “Man, that so easily could have been me.” 

And if I had stuck around for like, another couple of months or a year or whatever. But yeah, so kind of going down that way, I was kind of, I was promoting as a supervisor and getting ready to kind of like being groomed for the next role at the next level in the call center. And had actually taken over for my boss and was getting like all of this great coverage with like upper management and all this stuff. And I was like, man, this is really the people I've looked up to like, this is like what I'm going for in my life right now is like this next position and I like wasn't impressed with it. 

Tim McCarthy

Yeah

Brock Briggs

And it was around that time, I kind of had a, just a brief moment of clarity and kind of like looking at my life situation and the people that I was hanging out with and was like, “This is not good.”

Tim McCarthy

Yeah

Brock Briggs

This really isn't a good way. And so I went down and talked to the Navy recruiter. This was probably April of 2014. 

Tim McCarthy

14, yeah

Brock Briggs

Yeah. That, early that year. What was funny about that first interaction at the recruiter is I just went in, and it was like, maybe I wanna join and like, maybe this is a good path to get away from this. 

And I went in there thinking that I just get some literature and like, see what the deal is on enlisting. And he was like, he wanted to do a bunch more stuff other than just like, talk to me. He's like, “Oh, let's give you a way in, let's like, kind of start you on the process a little bit.” 

Tim McCarthy

Yeah

Brock Briggs

And that dude should have seen right through me right then. He was like, he asked me to take off my shoes, because he wanted to do a weigh in and I was wearing weed socks. They like had weed logos like socks. And I was like

Tim McCarthy

Oh, God!

Brock Briggs

I was sitting in the parking lot. And I didn't even think about it. And he was like, “Oh, do you smoke weed?'' And the last part of like, my dad's conversation, talking about the Navy, like kicked in. One of the things that he told me very early on, he was like, they don't know anything when you join. Don't admit to anything. Don't own anything. Like you're scotch free, unless there's like somebody in your legal record that says you did something. So they're gonna try and break you. Like, don't give them anything. And so I just said, you know, “No, I liked the brand,” or that dude should have just seen right through that. 

Tim McCarthy

Right, right.

Brock Briggs

He probably did, but he's just doing his job. Thank God that he didn't wanna drug test right there because I wouldn't have passed. 

Tim McCarthy

Yeah

Brock Briggs

I really wouldn't have but yeah, so ended up enlisting. Or kind of going through the process, I really thought that I wanted to be a hotshot and I really wanted an EOD contract. Also, in hindsight, I thought that it was hot shit, then, kind of physically. I said, oh, if I'm gonna join, the guy was like, you need to lose like 25 pounds. Like I was a large and I mean, just smoking. I'm like eating freakin' stale cereal for snacks. Like you're just, you know, you're not eating good. You're not living right. It was just part of that culture, I guess.

Tim McCarthy  22:48  

I remember you telling me you are a big grilled cheese guy before you joined the Navy.

Brock Briggs 22:54  

I still am. Lets not get into that.

Tim McCarthy  22:58  

True. True. Yes, I remember. I think you told me this in Pensacola, Florida, that when before you joined, you had spent all day in your bed and you had an electric griddle next to your bed and you would make grilled cheese sandwiches and eat grilled cheese sandwiches in your bed.

Brock Briggs 23:15  

I wanna just clarify that that was one time. 

Tim McCarthy

Oh, that was like a horrible thing. 

Brock Briggs

No, it wasn't that. 

Tim McCarthy

Okay

Brock Briggs

It didn't just keep that in there that would get me disowned from somebody people.

Tim McCarthy  23:29  

I just I first saw many years of just imagined fatter, long haired Brock rolling over flipping a grilled cheese rolling back over like

Brock Briggs  23:40  

Yeah, it was just bad. You know, it was like, go get a 3000 calorie. You know, Dutch Bros coffee on the way into work. And then at lunch, go have an energy drink and go out to eat for fast food, come home, just not eating good. Not living right, whatever. 

Tim McCarthy

Yeah

Brock Briggs

So when I go to join, he like tells me that so I like run three miles. And all of a sudden, I think I'm like in this impeccable shape. And I'm like, oh, I want this contract. And I'm gonna go be a badass and all this stuff. And yeah, turns out I just like didn't have the physical chops for that. But it ended up working out just fine. Took AT just like you and shipped off to boot camp later that year. Which by this point is things were kind of like, reconciling a little bit better with family. Everybody was super proud. 

And I think that despite my family, maybe not knowing where my life was that before. They've maybe had some ideas and like, because I just had a really big chip on my shoulder. Super arrogant, I really just thought I was hot shit, king on my friend group and just like that I can just boss people around and I don't know. My ego is just the size of a huge balloon. 

Tim McCarthy

Yeah

Brock Briggs

Really

Tim McCarthy 25:16  

When you made the choice to join, I mean, from the sounds of it you are like you said, king shit. At the call center, you have all these friends. I'm assuming big house parties all the time. You know, you are like kind of the man. What is the thought process? What are people saying when you're like, yo, I gotta make changes, like, I'm out of here, you know, what are they? What are their responses?

Brock Briggs  25:45  

It wasn't positive. I'll just say that. And it's very similar to what you were saying. Or maybe sort of along the lines of how you describe your experience. People were like, kind of like wanna act like they're supporting you, but probably don't. 

Tim McCarthy

Yeah

Brock Briggs

You know, and instantly, because at that time as soon as I decided I was like, I gotta stop everything that I'm doing like consuming. I still drank or whatever, but like I had to stop everything else. And then that instantly, stranges you from your friend group, you know. If your entire friendships are based on drugs or alcohol, and all of a sudden you don't do those, guess what? Your friendship isn't that deep anymore.

Tim McCarthy

Yeah

Brock Briggs

And yeah, so there wasn't a ton of like support in that way. I remember telling one of my friends and he was like, “Oh, what do you just wanna go get PTSD? Like, why would you do that?” And I was just like, “Oh, wow.” Like,

Tim McCarthy

Yeah

Brock Briggs

I didn't really like, it kind of upset me at the time, because I was just like, I wish that he just supported me. In hindsight, looking back at that, I'm like, “Fuck you, dude.” Like, that's so messed up. 

Tim McCarthy

Yeah

Brock Briggs

To say something like that. But yeah, not a ton of support from the friendships, and it was just different. Nobody really did that type of thing. And you're right, we were throwing massive house parties all the time. And so it was just weird for somebody to like, wanna leave that.

Tim McCarthy

Yeah

Brock Briggs

I just needed something more than that. And it came a great time, really. Like I said, my family was very supportive of that. And they knew that it would be good for my character and personal development, I think in the long term.

Tim McCarthy  27:47  

I have to assume knowing your dad and your dad was in the Navy. I have to assume that when you told him that that's the route that you wanted to take, he was thrilled.

Brock Briggs  27:58  

Yeah, yeah. I don't really remember specifically when I told him so I can't really say what the exact reaction was. But the subsequent years of being in the Navy have told me that he really liked that. And the rest of my family too, even talking to some friends and family after getting out or whatever. They're like, you're not even close to the same person. 

Tim McCarthy

Yeah

Brock Briggs

And so that's a good thing. Hindsight, that's not the person that I wanted to be. So no, it was a good thing. But yeah, left, whenever that was November of 2018. For any listeners, right? We talked about this in your episode, but we were actually two weeks apart, I think.

Tim McCarthy  28:52  

Yeah, I got there November 9. And I think and then you got there like two weeks at end of November.

Brock Briggs  29:00  

Yeah, the week of Thanksgiving, like, 

Tim McCarthy

Yeah, the 24th or something

Brock Briggs

Yeah. So we were very close unknowingly. 

Tim McCarthy

Yeah, yeah

Brock Briggs

As fate would have it. Now, I'm glad that it worked out that way. Boot camp was like a brutal shock. 

Tim McCarthy

Yeah

Brock Briggs

I had never and I think that you and I could probably both have the same mentality going in there is like, I didn't really understand like getting in trouble for what somebody else did. 

Tim McCarthy

Yeah

Brock Briggs

As like bad, why would 

Tim McCarthy  29:34  

This is weird. Yeah. Right. Right.

Brock Briggs  29:37  

And I remember saying something, remember those little like feedback forms that you would like write about the leaders of the division?

Tim McCarthy  29:47  

Oh, yeah. Yes.

Brock Briggs  29:50  

We did that and on one of them, I freakin' I stupidly wrote like, this shouldn't be this way. I shouldn't be getting in trouble for whatever, just some really ignorant shit. And of course they read it in front of everybody. It doesn't have my name and I'm like, oh man who the fuck would say something like, you're ignorant like

Tim McCarthy  30:09  

Yeah. Way to go, dumbass.

Brock Briggs  30:11  

But I looked and they just destroyed the comment, you know. And by the end of bootcamp, I understood and I like went to him and I said, “Hey, that was me. I get it now.” And so there was kind of like that cathartic moment or whatever. But yeah, that was a rude awakening for me, mentally, physically. Like I said, we both thought we were hot shit. You get to boot camp just get freakin' roasted by doing arm circles for 20 minutes, like somehow, but

Tim McCarthy  30:45  

Yeah, yeah, yup. McKenna, my three year old, wanted me to teach her how to do jumping jacks the other day, and I about had a flashback to doing jumping jacks as heavy as boots on for 45 minutes.

Brock Briggs  31:02  

Right

Tim McCarthy

Anyway

Brock Briggs

Your feet are just like slamming into the boots with like, your blisters. 

Tim McCarthy

Oh, yeah

Brock Briggs

This feels great. I actually did have a weird flashback. I went to a HIT class recently. And they were doing like jumping jacks to warm up. And I was like, I don't remember doing these for a while, like it's 

Tim McCarthy

Yeah, yeah

Brock Briggs

Or did a lot of them in ACE school. And those are like free, whatever. So graduate boot camp, go on to ACE school, meet you, really kind of started to find my tribe, I think there and in ACE school. And a lot of big awakenings, I think meeting you. 

And after getting to Virginia, like spending more time with Ian and like Matt, really started to kind of changed my ideas about what friendship looked like. And we like hung out 24/7 and all the time. And I mean, we were doing a lot of the same stuff that I was before. You know, we're still going out and partying on the beach, and doing all those types of things. But there was something that was much different about it. 

And I think that the connection there was driven by more than just, we're not just friends because of alcohol or anything else. There was perfectly fine to sit in each other's company and just be quiet and do nothing, which I never had before. I had mentioned like I had gone through all these kind of like weird different friend group phases in high school, and then right after high school. And then all of these different things like trying to find the right people that were my people I felt like but that just finally clicked. And I was looking for that like type group of people. And really, I've come to appreciate how valuable that is over the years.

Tim McCarthy  33:11  

Yeah, absolutely. I think that you are. Our friendship was very interesting for me, because I remember being in Pensacola, and we had been friends at this point for a couple months. And in Pensacola, if we were not in class, like if I was going somewhere, you are going somewhere and vice versa. Like if you are going somewhere I was right there with you. You are probably the first friend that I think it was something about your car. We were leaving somewhere and you like you were frustrated and you had like ripped my head off about something about getting sand in your car or something like that. 

And I was just like, so taken aback like, I've never had a friendship where my best friend is like yelling at me. And then we like squashed it and we're like good. You know, like, that's just like you do with your brothers. You were definitely a passionate dude back then. I'll use that word passionate. The vein, you know, that was the first experience with the vein. 

Brock Briggs

That was the very first 

Tim McCarthy

Yeah, and then the finger but no, that was interesting because you know, I remember thinking back being like, “Man, this dude has to be my best friend because if anybody else were to like yell at me like this, we'd be going to blows,” but it was just like so normal. You know or not normal, but it was just like, not a big deal for us to like do that and then it's done, you know? 

Brock Briggs  34:51  

Yeah. Well, I for anybody listening Tim mentioning my vein, my friend group as I didn't know this for the longest Last time. It was you guys held on to that for years before telling me about. 

Tim McCarthy

Oh yeah, oh yeah.

Brock Briggs

I have a vein in my neck that just like, I don't know, I just look scary when I get that.

Tim McCarthy  35:10  

That sucker, dude. That sucker bow just comes flaring out, it runs all the way down the side of his neck when he's mad. And it's just like, that is to tell when you know Brock's mad. When he's talking to you in a loud tone of voice and that fucking vein is just like, looks like he's gonna blow an artery in his neck. Oh, yeah, Brock is mad. Okay, there's the vein.

Brock Briggs  35:34  

I remember being so upset when you guys told me about that. For the first time. I was like, how long has this been going on? Like completely unaware of it, you know, and you guys are just like, probably silently making fun of me for this thing that I don't even know that I have. But yeah, I'm, I'm working on that. And that's something that I'm gonna point out to about this or, like you mentioned, like getting upset, something that I'll point out in terms of like, the bigger scheme of like, my development and like the military and stuff like that is part of the cockiness and arrogance, I guess I will say early on. 

I don't know whether that led to me to just be very angry. But I was like, I was a very angry person. And I think that that was part of the reason why I enjoyed smoking weed, because it chilled me out. Before joining you know, I have like a really hard time describing this but I think that certain people will understand what that feeling is but when you know when you're really mad and you just like literally feel the blood pumping in your body and it literally just feels like you could run through a wall. 

Tim McCarthy

Yeah

Brock Briggs

There was like an extended period of time prior to joining probably, it was probably a year before. I would wake up feeling like that. Just like wake up like gritting my teeth and just blood pumping and for literally no reason. And it just led me to be super unpleasant to a lot of people. And like I said, I think that it only fuel that like kind of cockiness and like arrogance to other people. Certainly not very humble and like not a good like humble mindset at all. But that's something that I'm working on and try to have like less of the vein coming out just in general.

Tim McCarthy  37:46  

Yeah. You've definitely mellowed out over the years. So I will 100% give you that the vein comes out way less frequently now. Yeah, you said you don't know why? I mean, where does that anger come from? No clue.

Brock Briggs 38:04  

I have no idea. I don't know. I just haven't really ever been able to figure it out. And it's still something that I struggle with. Like it's kind of an ongoing thing. It's now it's just more of like a coping thing and how do I manage this and like not allow it to dictate my life because that's what it was before. Just as like anybody that was in the blast zone. Just got a freakin' earful all the time, and now it's. And that's not right. Like, I don't wanna be the explosive guy. 

And there are a couple like, there are a couple of experiences that have happened over the years that have just like, I'm so embarrassed of, where people have like pointed out like my close friends since like, after boot camp meeting you guys and our friends since then, people in that group that have pointed out the vein thing is a joke. Like I get that. 

But there have been a couple times when people have pointed out to me that I've been angry. And it's so embarrassing. Like I just never wanna be that person. I don't wanna be the explosion guy and like wanna be calm and like collected and mature. Because 

Tim McCarthy

Yeah 

Brock Briggs

Nobody likes being around those people. But there were a lot of situations that you got me out of, honestly, like your calmness. We talked about this in your interview, like you're super calm and collected, like way more than I am. 

And I could write a small novel about the amount of times that you have come over to me and you're like, “Dude, it's not, everything is okay. You don't have anything to be mad about.” And whether that's we're going to bar, whether I'm like wanting to strangle Ian for doing something stupid. There's so many instances.

Tim McCarthy  40:08  

Many, many times. You know, you, me and Ian, we would hang out Friday through Sunday literally for four years straight. Like we got off work Friday, we were at Ian's place because he always seemed to have like the nicest barracks room. Yeah, there'd be many times like Sunday afternoon. Like you guys are ready to just kill each other like brothers, like good friends, you know and just many car rides are day out. You need to go here, like, I'll roll with you. And I just be like, dude, just let's calm down. You know, dial it back. 

And that's, you know, and it's a good thing because you are always the one that was like, especially in a bar setting like you were always ready to throw down. And it was good because I was the one that was like really calm but like at the end of the day, if something were to escalate like, okay, let's escalate it. I'm right there with you. You know what I mean? But let's try to like not not fight this guy because he bumped into me or like, whatever. So,

Brock Briggs 41:17  

Right. Well, and that just highlights the pettiness of like

Tim McCarthy

Oh yeah

Brock Briggs

How I would look at things. It's like, oh, you get bumped in a bar. Like, that's not a reason to, like, just be screaming at somebody, that's not a reason to get the vein out. You know? 

Tim McCarthy

Yeah, yeah.

Brock Briggs

You gotta just chill out. So, yeah, I think that meeting you was a very, very good thing for me in terms of that, because you have backed me off the ledge so many times. And I'm grateful for that. So thank you. 

Tim McCarthy  41:50  

You’re very welcome, anytime. So you finish up ACE school. Any challenges there? Or is that like, pretty straightforward because your particular ACE school was notoriously the most challenging. Like, there were people that were dropping out because they couldn't, you know, pass the tests or whatever. Did you have any challenges with that? 

Because that's one thing. Early on in our friendship, I realized as you're going through this, like, you are a very smart dude. And that was one thing that I noticed was that there was a lot of people complaining about how difficult it was, you know, all these tests and the curriculum and stuff like that. But you never you never seemed to like complain about it. It was easy for you from everybody else's perspective. Is that pretty accurate? Or?

Brock Briggs  42:44  

I didn’t know that was easy for me. I think that I liked the challenge a little bit. We talked earlier about my time in college and it just like wasn't the classic like oh, he just doesn't apply himself like I hate how like good of a way to describe that that is. But this was something that I was scared to fail, like really scared. 

Like I didn't wanna, I mean you go fail a test and you have to like stand at attention in the office of all of these like senior enlisted people and like tell them how bad you suck like that scared me to death you know. And I really didn't want to do that. I don't think that it came natural. I mean we're literally learning like electrical theory and all of these like power things and you know schematics and all of these kind of like advanced stuff. But it just didn't seem to me like there was a big choice. 

Tim McCarthy  43:46  

Yeah, it was either like do this or go home or like pick a different shitty job, be on desk airman or or whatever and ever what you wanna do. Anybody listening this thinking about joining if your recruiter tells you to go pack airman because you could pick what you want, he's fucking lying to you

Brock Briggs  44:06  

That is a lie. Do not do that. 

Tim McCarthy  44:09  

Yeah, do not go in on designated, pick a damn job anyway. That's my little lesson for the day.

Brock Briggs  44:16  

You're right. There's the two cents. Yeah, I didn't really think about it that much. It was very hard. But like I said I enjoyed the challenge and enjoyed learning. I thought that that was, it was kind of cool. And I didn't really get the big picture stuff of like how that was gonna apply to the job but no, that's interesting that you say that though. Our class was pretty small and I don't know. There just didn't seem to be like an option of like failing or whatever.

Tim McCarthy 44:50  

Yeah, like I said, it just seemed like you were like, just like naturally like a smart dude. Like you just, people would spend Friday nights stuff reading and you never really had to do that. But you were always good in your school. Like, it just seemed like you just picked that stuff up really, really quickly.

Brock Briggs 45:09  

Yeah, I don't know if it was the way people describe like being good at school, and all kinds of talk about this, like after getting out and like going back to college or whatever, but I feel like I just got really good at taking tests. And I think that that was more what it is. And it's about finding the easiest way to like to learn something or to pass. It's kind of a bad habit, but maybe not so much to focus on, like the learning it. 

But how do I know enough to pass this? Because I'm way more like hands on. And I gotta like, do it. And especially we're talking about, like, switches and circuits and like, all this kind of electrical stuff. And I need to like put my hands on it. 

Tim McCarthy

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Brock Briggs

So I was just mostly focused on like, getting through it and making it.

Tim McCarthy 46:07  

So you leave ACE school, or you're wrapping up ACE school and you're about to go to your duty station at that point in ACE school. What are your thoughts of the Navy? Because I know your thoughts and maybe when you got out like, but what at that point in ACE school, you've kind of started to find your group of friends. You're, you know, you have all these similar people around you. You also you had said like I kind of had like this cloud of people, that was also, you know, kind of like have this gravity around you that people just like were attracted to what. At that point, are you like, “Okay, I could do 20 years of this, like this is great,” or

Brock Briggs  46:53  

I don't know, it was kind of hard to even think that far. I wouldn't even give myself credit into thinking that I was even thinking about that at that time. I knew that I was ready to get back and be close to home though. And it wasn't out of like a sense of, “Oh, I miss home and I wanna be there or whatever.” But I think that maybe I just missed it. I remember like really selecting and gunning to go back to the West Coast. You know, you and Ian and you guys had gone on to Virginia. And I was like, I don't wanna do that. 

But I wasn't even really thinking about long term. I just wanted to go back, get close to the West Coast. And as fate would have it like that wouldn't be, that wouldn't be happening. I remember calling you guys when I got my orders and say, “Oh, you know, like, I'm coming to Virginia,” and you're just like, “Wow!!!” Like screaming and so excited. 

Tim McCarthy

Yeah, yeah.

Brock Briggs

And I was just like, that made me excited to like, have people that were excited to have me there. 

Tim McCarthy

Yeah

Brock Briggs

But at the same time, I was kind of bummed about going to Virginia, I guess

Tim McCarthy  48:05  

You had been picking orders. I think it was like the week that I left like a couple days before I left. And I remember this very vividly. You kind of like almost sitting me down for a conversation and be like, “Dude, I love you. But I gotta pick West Coast orders. Like that's where I need to be.” And that was kind of like I was able to be on. Like we had talked about our friends back home before we joined that were kind of like always negative about it. That was the first opportunity where I gotta kind of like see it from their point of view. 

And I was like, “Dude, I like I get it. It fucking sucks. But like if you go there that will suck because like, you know, you're my best friend but if that's what you have to do, then then go do it.” And then I also remember that phone call. I think it was like a Friday afternoon and I was already with Ian and you're like, I'm coming to Virginia and we were just fucking losing it like. And I think you had hung out with Ian a little bit but I don't you definitely were not like the best of friends with him yet. But yeah, no, we were just like freaking stoked so

Brock Briggs  49:20  

It ended up working out. 

Tim McCarthy

Oh yeah. Oh yeah.

Brock Briggs

It ended up, I now wouldn't have changed that but yeah, I think that I was like eager to like maybe go, be close to home and like be able to go back there and like show everybody like this new person that I was. 

Tim McCarthy

Yeah

Brock Briggs

I don't think that I had like still, it's still hadn't set in like me drawing the line in the sand of kind of like an older me and like a newer me yet. I was still kind of like talking to people that I was friends with back then and whatever. Still, like eager to go home and like cut up with people and whatever. But and like, tell them about, oh, like, this is what I've done and whatever. And that kind of ended up like slowly fading away. But yeah, so get up to Virginia, spent two years kind of just like screwing around. I don't know what we were doing, traveling all over the place, hanging out. I had like shore duty first. 

And which was, I don't know, neither good, really, nor bad. But nothing like super eventful had like another really long school. That was like six months again, that took up a bunch of time. And then after that, because of how the Navy's rotation works, for anybody unfamiliar, if you go to shore duty first, you can actually, your shore rotation is shorter, because they want to get you back to deployable status. So I got picked up early to leave and go on deployment, which was, like a huge shock. 

Tim McCarthy

Yeah

Brock Briggs

I don't think I was ready for that, like that scared me so bad.

Tim McCarthy  51:15  

Yeah. Yeah, I remember. Yeah. So your short duty, really not much. You'd picked up rank though, like, first time up at your short duty? 

Brock Briggs

Yeah

Tim McCarthy

So definitely, it can like continuing to excel and figure out how to pass tests and kind of crack the code, if you will. So you had made rank. And then you were, it was your first time up for orders, right? 

Brock Briggs

Yeah

Tim McCarthy

For sea duty. And then you'd gotten, you got your hard copies, and they're like, “Hey, you gotta fly out to the boat.” And they gave you what, like, three months notice or something like that?

Brock Briggs  51:53  

It was under two, I think.

Tim McCarthy

Was it? Okay And maybe that two months just felt like a freakin' long time. Because once you got that you were definitely on edge. Like you could tell that you were nervous about it and kind of reluctant to go. Where? What is it that made you nervous about deployment? Was it the deployment itself? Was it more of like the social aspect back home? Or when I say back home, I mean, like back in Virginia with us? I mean, what made you nervous about it?

Brock Briggs  52:31  

Probably all of those things, really. One, we didn't have any friends that had gone on deployment before. So nobody really knew what that was like. 

Tim McCarthy

Yeah

Brock Briggs

We didn't really have anything to compare to. And I was kind of the opinion, I was like, I'm gonna write out my time here and was probably already kind of like thinking about getting out. And because I remember a time in that first like, year or two after getting to Virginia, sitting down with you and Ian and saying, hey, are you guys gonna stay in for 20 years? If we get out at four, do you guys wanna move back to Boise with me? 

Tim McCarthy

Yeah

Brock Briggs

I will say that I like I had that one in the stove like that iron was in the stove very early on, like we were, you're into being in.

Tim McCarthy

Yeah

Brock Briggs

And I was like, hey, we should get out and move to Boise. 

Tim McCarthy

Yeah

Brock Briggs

So yeah, literally brought that to fruition eventually. But yeah, nobody had done deployment yet. Didn't really know what to expect. A short turnaround time, you know, they say, “Hey, in two months, you literally need to get all your shit together and fly across the country to like, or across the world to go meet this boat somewhere.” There were just so many unknowns. And at this point, too, we had such an established friend group, like me, you, Ian, Matt, Emily. Like we really had everybody that we needed. We kind of like expanded our group and really just enjoyed hanging out every weekend. 

It wasn't that we had to be doing anything, but really had created a strong support system and great relationships with people that I would argue are just, they're difficult to recreate. And one of the reasons why we’re still friends to this day. I remember so many instances of people that we would meet and say, “Oh, you can come hang out with our friends.” And them saying, “Oh, I've never seen a friendship like this.” 

Tim McCarthy

Yeah

Brock Briggs

And that was like such a foreign concept to a lot of people. And it was weird. I mean, it was natural for us. We're just yeah, like developed out of thin air. But that was my first clue into seeing that we had something that was unique.

Tim McCarthy  55:07  

Yeah, yeah. And so and I think we talked about this on my interview, but almost intimidating for somebody who it's their first time coming to hang out like, man, these all these guys are on a way different, like level, then I could probably ever be with them. 

Brock Briggs

Yeah

Tim McCarthy

You know, like kind of kind of a scary thing to try to step into. And I think we were all like, hyper aware of that. And we would try our best to like, not like, we try our best to bring people in and be like, no, like, we're just a normal friend group. It kind of sounds weird to like, talk about it. But like, we were all very well aware of it, but it just seemed like no matter how hard we tried, like you had to be freakin' tough as nails for one to like, survive in that friend group. Because it didn't matter who you were, you're getting roasted all the time. 

Like you need to be able to bounce back quick, have thick skin and like take the shit because that we were all and I think I think that that's kind of one thing that we really bonded on is that that's kind of how all of us showed our like, love for somebody. Or that we like somebody is like if I give you a hard time and harass you and roast you like that means that I like I'm good friends with you. If I'm really nice to you, I probably am not very good friends with you. You know what I mean?

Brock Briggs 56:33  

Well, and we kind of perpetuated this just like schedule of like non stop just debauchery, mostly. 

Tim McCarthy

Oh yeah

Brock Briggs

You know, we're going every weekend just going camping, like just no sleep, guns blazing all the time. I hear about the high bar that you're talking about of just like roasting people and kind of like loving on them. But like in a rough kind of way. I won't mention any names, you'll know who I'm talking about. But I remember there was one, it was a Sunday afternoon. And Matt had invited us to church. 

And we went out to church with Matt and we were with this one individual. And she was like she had been hanging out with us for some time. And like really, I don't know, she just like wanted to be our friend. And I remember somebody said something in the car. And we had just if you're around this like rough group of guys, like you're gonna be just you gotta be tough as nails, like you said. I remember somebody said something to her in the car that was kind of like poking at her or like roasting her or something. 

And she just burst into tears. Just crying like, the sad, ugly crying, like just completely destroyed. And by the time she like comes to and like can talk she literally says, “I don't think I can hang out with you guys anymore.” And we never saw her again. 

Tim McCarthy

Yeah. I know exactly who you're talking about it. I remember that vividly. 

Brock Briggs

I still feel bad for that.

Tim McCarthy

And that's what I was gonna say like, like hearing that story. We're like laughing about it now. But we did like feel and kind of still do, like, feel very bad about that. Like, but again, it was one of those things like that's kind of how, that's how we showed our appreciation. 

And we were very quick to like if somebody wants to be friends and like, hang out with us like heck yeah, like, come on, like, roll with us. Come on over, come here like, but it's almost kind of like a gang. Like, kind of like if you're gonna be in this group, like you're in the group. Like, if we go somewhere like we expect you to go with us. You know what I mean? Like, well, what do you mean, you're not coming over on Friday night and leaving on Sunday? Like, what? What are you talking about? That's so weird. Why would you leave on Saturday morning? You know, like that kind of thing.

Brock Briggs  59:12  

You have no other plans other than hanging out with us basically.

Tim McCarthy  59:17  

Yeah, yeah. Which sounds so arrogant to like, but it's just like that's how that's like how close knit we were like, like you got something going on. Where are we going? 

Brock Briggs  59:27  

Right, like we are all gonna go do that together. 

Tim McCarthy  59:28  

Yeah, like, we have plans. I need you there with me for moral support. 

Brock Briggs  59:33  

Right, I'm going to the grocery store. We're all going.

Tim McCarthy

Yeah, yeah.

Brock Briggs

Well and it's funny how that dynamic played out. I've never really thought about this but talking about it makes me realize like how much that actually played out in my relationships at that time too because I like I kind of was still a little bit cocky but in like a different way and like oh I've got my shit together now and I've gotten my friend group and whatever. 

But when I was like seeing people, I basically had it in my head that there almost couldn't even be somebody that I could meet that would even take a higher priority than my friend groups. Like, there were several relation, I don't even know if I call them relationships, but people that I had seen during that period, where they kind of like wanted to have, like, other time that was not with all of us as a group. And I basically said, that's not gonna work for me. Oh, like we can all hang out as a group and a little bit of that is driven by just I grew up in a big family and like, I really enjoyed that like cohesiveness. 

And we had just like we built that, like, replicated it perfectly. And it's hard for at the time, it was hard for me to imagine like wanting to spend time with somebody that also didn't include that. And so in hindsight, thankfully, missed, and like didn't stop talking to people because the friend group was more important. And it ended up working out exactly how it should. But it's interesting how that dynamic was played out. It was that important.

Tim McCarthy  1:01:28  

Yeah, it was. And I think that that was probably like, Jessica and I being long distance. That's probably one of the main reasons why we did work. Jessica and I did work out is because she wasn't trying to pull me away from my friend group, you know, every weekend had she lived there. So her being across the country, I was like, basically had my cake and eat it too. You know, like, I had my girlfriend that I would see, but then I also was like free to do what I wanted with my friends on the weekend. 

Brock Briggs

I've never thought about it that way.

Tim McCarthy

Neither have I. And it just popped in my head. Yeah. Like, had she lived in Virginia. And it was kind of I mean, we all had that same mentality. You know, it wasn't specific to you, because and I think we all other than Matt and Emily, I think we, you, me and Ian all have big families. So that's I've also never thought about it that way either of like, that's kind of what we're used to, is just like always being around people. Yeah, that just popped in my head like that first couple of years of us being long distance was probably a good thing, because I also would have had the same, the same thoughts of like, no this is where I need to be.

Brock Briggs  1:02:43  

Yeah, no, that's super true. Yeah, we've spent a bunch of time talking about our friend group. But I think that that even just that expounds on why leaving for deployment was so hard. 

Tim McCarthy

Yeah

Brock Briggs

Just, we had really developed this thing that I was happy to be a part of. And so it was just difficult to step away and into the unknown about that. It ended up being a really good experience, though. It was brutal, but it was a good experience overall, did six months on the boat, six or seven months on the boat. 

And then ended up coming back and finally kind of reuniting with you guys and which was tough on so many levels. Like I said, stepping away from that and then seeing like hearing from you guys and whatever was so so hard to kind of work through that. And you're so isolated, you know, with bad internet connection, and you just feel like nobody gives a shit while you're away. 

Tim McCarthy

Yeah

Brock Briggs

Yeah

Tim McCarthy  1:03:55  

Was deployment everything you hoped and dreamed it would be? What did that like solidify? Like, oh, this is what it is. I'm getting out. I mean, what was the main takeaway from deployment?

Brock Briggs 1:04:09  

What are the big takeaways? Well, that was definitely one of them. I had my fair share of like mopping and like cleaning floors. And not that there's anything wrong with that. But I realized that that's for the long term goal of what I was trying to have, like a family maybe someday and like being close to my friends and family. That's not a sustainable model for life being away all the time, like that. Another way that it reinforced the importance of like friends and family to me was that I gotta go to like all these cool places, which was great. 

And afterwards you get home and you can't wait to tell everybody about your experiences and you're like, look at all this stuff. And it's tough because nobody really cares. And people care, they like wanna hear about it, but they don't really care because they weren't there. And that one of the summed up the biggest takeaway there is your experiences matter because of the people that you're with, not the things that you do. 

Tim McCarthy

Yeah

Brock Briggs

And so at being able to, like reminisce like me, and you can say or reminisce about, you know, we're talking about our friend group, just like literal basic things. But it was so important, and it was impactful. And on the surface, looking at all these places that I got to travel, I would think that that would be more meaningful, but I wasn't with the people that I wanted to be doing it with. And so it means much less. 

Tim McCarthy

Yeah 

Brock Briggs

And so I think that that's very applicable to almost anything that you do, whether whatever kind of career you're in. It's all about the people, really.

Tim McCarthy  1:05:57  

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So when you're on deployment, you met your fiancee.

Brock Briggs  1:06:04  

I did meet my fiancee. Very briefly, she gave me the cold shoulder for a long time. And I really had to play the long game on getting to actually talk to her because she was a very, people knew who she was on the boat, I guess we'll just say that. Everybody was aware of her. I mean, she's beautiful. Of course, everybody knows it.

Tim McCarthy

Yeah

Brock Briggs

They know who she is. 5000, 7000 people on one boat, you still know who people are. 

Tim McCarthy

Yeah

Brock Briggs

I wasn't super like forward about trying to meet her. I would say hi, because she lived right down the hall from where my shop was. But we didn't really interact until by last year in the Navy. We got back from deployment, I think, August of 2017. And then we actually ended up starting to talk the following year, which was kind of a, that was an interesting thing. Because by that point, I was certain about getting out. We had talked like you and Jess were ready to move back to Boise. So as Ian like, all of my planning had, like, finally worked out. We were all going to Boise. 

And I had like given up on dating at that point. I was already kind of had a bad taste in my mouth, was ready to just be done. And we started talking and very early on, I remember saying like, I'm getting out at the end of the year. And I'm moving back to Boise, just so you know, like nothing that you can say is gonna change that. And she was like, okay, that's fine. Like I'm re-enlisting. And so that's what I'm doing.

Tim McCarthy  1:07:45  

Actually, it was not that easy for her. We can kind of circle back to it. Because I don't want you to lose your train of thought, but there are, I have points that I wanna make here.

Brock Briggs 1:07:59  

No, let's hear it. 

Tim McCarthy  1:08:03  

So first of all, Aubrey was very well known on the boat because like you said, she's a beautiful girl. Everybody kind of knew who she was because she was one of a handful of very pretty girls on the boat. And she kind of had the same almost the same attitude as you like, I don't wanna say like an arrogance, but just like it's hard for me to put my finger on it. Kind of like I know people know who I am. But like, don't fucking talk to me. Like, when she would like walk down the hall. 

It was like, that's, you know, but it was this weird thing of like, obviously, when I once you got back from deployment, I started going out on little workups with you guys on that same ship. And I remember having somebody. I ate Chow with you guys or was hanging out with you guys or whatever. And somebody came up and was like, “Oh, like how do you know Atchinson?” And I'm like, “That's my like buddy’s kind of girlfriend.” I don't even think like you guys were dating yet. You know, but like, I like had other dudes ask me like how I know her. 

And I'm like, what, okay, weirdos. I was like, it's just this girl like that's talking to my buddy, you know? So there definitely was like she, people knew of her and she carried it well. But she would you had the conversation of, hey, I'm getting out at the end of the year. I remember having a conversation with her in your shop. I don't think that you were there and her being like, I don't really know what to do. 

Like I'm scheduled to re enlist but I kind of don't wanna re enlist so that I can like be with Brock. But this is also still very new. And so like, this is such a big life choice to like kind of throw away for like this new guy. But I think, and I think both of you knew very early on that it would that this was like something very special.

Brock Briggs  1:10:19  

Right. As you saying that, as we hadn't even been talking for a month. Like it was one of those things where you'd like meet and you're like, oh, this might actually be something. And me, I was kind of like, soured anyway. And I felt the same way. Like this could be something but I also have not known you enough to like alter my plans for yet. And I even told her, I was like, why don't you reenlist for like two? 

Tim McCarthy

Yeah

Brock Briggs

Not six. And, you know, she ended up doing six, which has been fine, but

Tim McCarthy  1:10:55  

Now you're the depender.

Brock Briggs  1:10:57  

Right, I am. I got my own job. 

Tim McCarthy  1:10:59  

No, I’m just kidding. We're gonna get into that. I'm totally playing with you. Yeah, no, that's cool. But yeah, I remember she was like, kind of asking me my opinion on it. And I'm like, in my head, like, silly girl. One, this is my best friend. Two, I have also started to become good friends with her. And I liked hanging out with her and she meshed well with you. And she was, I was able to roast the shit out of her and she would give it right back. And so selfishly, I also was like, Nah, get out, like, you know, it's going places like come to Idaho, you know.

Brock Briggs 1:11:36  

You have my back since day one, I appreciate it.

Tim McCarthy  1:11:38  

But you as well. But yeah, no, I've like, why are you asking me my opinion? Like, this? This dude’s like, my best friend. Like, of course, I'm gonna tell you that he's a great dude. And that, and you were but so yeah, she like asked my opinion. And I think I remember telling her probably something similar like, well, I know, Brock is gonna go to college, maybe do two years. And then that way if you wanna re enlist, or get the fuck out and come to Idaho with us, you know? So Brock Briggs  1:12:11  

Right. Yeah, well, it's good that she was able to persist through that because she still even talks about the barriers to entry up like the group at that point. Talks very deeply about those the barriers of like, breaking into that friend group, and I'm very thankful she was able to persist through that.

Tim McCarthy  1:12:33  

Yeah, yeah. 

Brock Briggs  1:12:37  

Anyway, I guess back on, like, career wise stuff. Yeah, by this point, I was certain about getting out. A buddy of mine or not even a friend of mine, a guy in my shop that I worked with had given me like a book on investing. And at this point, I was like, I'm gonna go to like college. And I don't know what else I'm gonna do. But I'm doing like electrical engineering right now in the Navy, maybe I'll just do that for school, guy gives me an investing book. 

I started like, I just devoured it, loved it. When I bought a bunch more books on like personal finance, and like investing and really just kind of fell in love with the subject and ultimately kind of changed my degree to finance before getting out. Got out in November of 2018, and then started school for finance in January, like two months later. So yeah, that's the Navy spiel, though. A lot can happen in four years, you know? 

Tim McCarthy  1:13:37  

Oh yeah. Yeah. Well, and just over those four years, like you, you personally, I guess over like the time of getting out of high school between getting out like you would change so much. Like from the time I knew you for those four years, you had gone from kind of like, finding your friend group was still we were partying our nuts off and having a great time. 

But then towards the end, it was very evident to the all of our friends that there was no, it was probably right around the time that you got home from deployment. There was kind of like this shift into, like, you really started to take an interest in finance. And you were like diving into that heavy and that really kind of seemed to take a level of importance in your life over anything else that we had really been interested in. It was on deployment that you got that investing book, wasn't it?

Tim McCarthy

Or, it was after?

Brock Briggs  1:14:36  

It was after. I think it was like early year 2018. 

Tim McCarthy

Yeah

Brock Briggs

But a little bit before I had met Audrey, but yeah, and I think that getting back from deployment was kind of there was a big shift like happening with everybody. You know, Jess had moved out there and you guys were together. Everybody was kinda like starting to make some bigger or preparing to make some bigger life moves of like getting out and starting kind of the next chapter, I guess.

Tim McCarthy  1:15:10  

Yeah, yeah. So you jump into you start doing financing. And then you are personally like starting to invest and like take that pretty serious on like your own accounts. I think you would even like taken out your Navy retirement to like invest that personally like, no, this is shit. Let me fix it. 

Brock Briggs

Right, yeah

Tim McCarthy

And then you start, you get out, you start going to school and you hammered out a four year degree in like two and a half years. You'd taken a little bit of college in the Navy, in your spare time. But like you had crushed a big degree very quickly.

Brock Briggs  1:15:50  

Yeah, it was coming back to school, there was just like this level of aggression towards school that I had, like, never kind of felt before. And I was just like, I felt really behind kind of in life in general. You know, I was like, dicked around for a couple years, joined the Navy. And I'm like, now, I don't know how old we were 24, 25. 

Tim McCarthy

Yeah

Brock Briggs

Getting out of the Navy. And I have like, I felt like I had nothing to show for my life. You know, I've got the time in the Navy. But that doesn't. All my friends are like, Oh, I just got my masters and all these things. And I just I felt behind. And so I like went back to school just ready to like, get super aggressive with it. And I did. And it was much different the second time around, took it seriously. And I had a monster course load all the time, you know, 15, 18 credits every semester, even during the summer, and just trying to get it done.

Tim McCarthy  1:16:57  

Was that weird for you? Like that shift of what's important in the Navy, making rank and like, that's kind of how you compare somebody to somebody else in the military, right? Is their rank. And so like, that's like the stepping stone, but then you get out. And like, nobody gives a shit, what rank you were. But now it's like, based on your education level or your job or whatever. I mean, was there any sort of a struggle there getting out and like dealing with that?

Brock Briggs  1:17:31  

A little bit, there's like, certainly a big loss of like identity. You know, I am like so interested to talk to people who have gone through that experience, because it's different for everybody. But I find it particularly interesting with active duty people that think that they're gonna get out and not be impacted by that. Because there are so many, like layers of your thinking that are just baked into military culture, and the world just doesn't work like that. 

Tim McCarthy

Yeah 

Brock Briggs

You're thrust back into the just like the wild wild west. And there's no structure. There's no organization. You don't belong anywhere. I like, even though I like I went back home and moved in with my parents. So like, go to school. But there's kind of like that weird feeling of oh, I can't just show up at any military base and like, have a room and like something to eat if I want. Not that I ever actually needed to use that. But for some reason, that's a scary thought to me. But that sense of belonging just wasn't there. But what it did was, it began to kind of like foster that, like love of that, like veteran pride, really. That's hard for me to explain, like the pride of like being a veteran. 

And it was always weird to me like talking to my dad. Because he was always just like super gung ho about like, you know, like, you did this. You served like, I'm so proud of you, all this stuff. And I'm just like, “Dad, it's no big deal. Like, quit worrying about it, like quit sweating. It's no big deal.” And he said, “No, you know, it is a big deal. And now I'm like rabid about it.” Yeah, that's half the fucking reason we're doing this podcast is because we do care about that. And it's hard to describe what that feeling is.

Tim McCarthy 1:19:28  

Yeah. It's interesting to me too, that like even you kind of went through that. Because out of everybody, you were the one that was like most ready to get out. Like Ian was also ready to get out. But like, I think you were the most vocal about it. We talked about how I really, really liked the Navy. And I think you liked the Navy for the first couple of years. But like towards the end you're like, I can't fucking wait to like, go be my own person again. So it's interesting to hear that like, when you got out, you kind of also had that like sense of, like, identity crisis, because you were like so much emotionally ready to move on. 

Brock Briggs 1:20:15  

Oh, yeah. I don't think that that changes how you feel about it. You can hate the Navy, or the military in general, but you'll still feel some type of way about it. I'm pretty confident of that. But yeah, I wanted to, one of the things that I realized late in the Navy, and there's a lot of correlations to like, just personal development and investing and like all these other things, but I've realized that the Navy has kept upside. For me, I want to be working on things that have unlimited upside. And I want to only be limited by my drive, to excel and to succeed, and the Navy kind of rewards everybody equally. 

Tim McCarthy

Yeah 

Brock Briggs

You know, there's some shitbags and whatever. But like, if you just kind of show up, you'll eventually make rank. 

Tim McCarthy

Yeah

Brock Briggs

You know, and it's not that I wasn't rewarded for the work that I did, I made rank and did all these things. But it certainly wasn't at the pace that I wanted, and wanted to search out more. So everything you said there was right. Because of my interest in finance, I like withdrew my entire retirement thing, retirement account into my own thing, started managing my own money there, went school for finance. 

And just like dove straight in, got plugged in with like the Investing Club at the school, took a couple of like real high quality internships, and really thrust myself in a school in a way that I hadn't before. And just the work ethic that the military gives you will make, we've talked about this with somebody else. But I think Matt, one of our first interviews, he mentioned it. But it's something that I found myself saying a lot is that the military makes the rest of life really easy. Like going in and like taking these classes. I'm like, you're telling me that I just have to show up once. I don't even have to go to class if I don't want to. 

And like I but not using that in a lazy way. But like I was back in control of my own time. 

Tim McCarthy

Yeah, yeah, yeah

Brock Briggs

And could dictate my own study schedule. And as long as I was getting good grades, that's all that mattered. And everything just seems easy. Like the tests don't really have the thing, it became more of how do I apply just this like work ethic to getting good grades. And it was a completely different story, going back to school. And it just was a breeze. It almost doesn't even feel like the same experiences when I went the first time.

Tim McCarthy  1:22:58  

Yeah, well, and that's kind of a note that I had written down to myself was like, you are not a good student the first time. And then going back. Some of our youth like that was like it was crazy. Like you like I said, you had hammered out a bachelor's degree in like two and a half years. So from the outside looking in, that was it's nuts, man. So good job on that, because that was a lot of work. So you start kind of getting into finance. And you realize that that's what you wanna do with your life. You're in finance now, kind of you're a data analyst? 

Brock Briggs

Right

Tim McCarthy

Yeah. How do you like that? Tell us a little bit about that. 

Brock Briggs  1:23:43  

Yeah, it's kind of a little bit of an adjacent field and something that came up because of my school. I actually took my school offered like a secondary certificate in I think it was called Data Analytics, just some kind of certificate with that. And I was like, oh, well, I'll take that. Like, I'm interested in how finance and like data kind of come together. And weirdly, I loved it. We did a lot of coding work and more like kind of computer science stuff. But I use that as like an opportunity kind of expand my scope. And I still love finance, talk about it on Twitter all the time. I love investing, do that all the time. But my scope and like love for certain hobbies, it's just kind of like exploded during that time. 

After I graduated, I was actually planning to go back to school to get a computer science master's because I liked it so much. And I ended up getting reached out to for a job from actually one of my managers that worked at the call center with me weirdly. 

Tim McCarthy

Wow, I never knew that.

Brock Briggs

Yeah, she reached out and said, hey, I think this is kind of up your alley. I'd need to hire somebody that can do what you can do. Are you interested? And so I was like, yeah, it was too good of an opportunity to pass up and I get to work from home and kind of make my own schedule a lot of the time. 

So I really enjoy that. Not sure that it's like what I want to do for the rest of my life. One thing that we've talked about in several of our interviews is how the military has kind of showed me that I like wanna be my own boss, and be, I wanna be who I'm answering to which I don't think that I can find somebody that can hold me to the standard that I wanna be held to. 

Tim McCarthy

Yeah

Brock Briggs

And so. And I think that, oh, self ownership of a business is a great way to do that. And we've talked about buying a small and medium sized business, using those kind of like finance skills to like, talk about that and explore that as an opportunity. 

But keeping the options open and it's good. I think that you really just need to come back to school or like getting out of the Navy, in general, come in with an open mind and be willing to kind of go down whatever rabbit hole is interesting to you. I think that one of the largest things, and opportunities for service members as a whole as you're thrust back into this world where there's no structure, there's no organization. And it's super daunting, but it should be encouraging, because you can literally do anything. 

Tim McCarthy

Yeah

Brock Briggs

In this world. You can start your own business today, if you wanted to. You can go work somewhere. You can work anywhere in the world. There's so many opportunities. So that and that shouldn't be overwhelming. It should be empowering to look at and say, “What challenges do I wanna tackle?” There's no excuse to not do something you love, basically.

Tim McCarthy  1:27:07  

Yeah, I think that it was pretty clear that you had had that epiphany, as you're kind of getting started to get out and started to kind of dive into finance. And you're like, wait, no, I can do all this stuff like, like this is what I wanna do. And you and I have kind of talked at length about, you know, you kind of being your own boss is something that you're very, very passionate about. What are you doing to kind of work towards that and make that happen?

Brock Briggs  1:27:41  

I think that the first and foremost point along that path is understanding, like what the end goal is. I was just having this conversation with somebody on Veterati, the other day doing one of the mentorship calls, give them another shout out. But they're like asking about career fields and all this stuff. And I was like, you gotta start with what is the lifestyle that you're trying to live. And starting with the end in mind will allow you to only pursue things that go that direction. So one of the things that was interesting to me about finance was like, oh, when I was going to school. Right at the beginning, I was like, “Oh, I'm gonna go work on Wall Street. I wanna work for a hedge fund, I wanna do all this stuff.” 

And then after kind of like learning more about it, I found out that like, Junior analysts, like you just show up at a school, you show up to New York City, and you go work at a big finance firm, congrats, you're gonna be working 80 hours a week. And I was like, oh, that's not what I want.

Tim McCarthy

Yeah, yeah

Brock Briggs

I don't wanna be doing that. 

Tim McCarthy

Yeah

Brock Briggs

So thinking about, okay, where do I wanna live? What kind of hours do I wanna work? Do I wanna be flexible in my time off? Asking those types of questions and then working backwards of like, okay, what jobs support that type of lifestyle? 

Tim McCarthy

Sure

Brock Briggs

And then having that in mind, you can then ask the questions about, okay, what am I interested in? And how can my interests lead me to that goal? I think that that was one of the things that I always found really overwhelming. Going into college the first time, it's there's, you know, a handbook this thick of different career fields, and there's this pressure of like, oh, what if I pick the wrong thing? 

Tim McCarthy

Sure

Brock Briggs

That shouldn't be the way that it's looked at. I think that people should step back and look at the things that you don't want to do in terms of, you know, when you're looking at individual jobs that support your end goal lifestyle. You know, this job is super paperwork focused. Do you like doing paperwork or no? No, I don't. Okay, I can rule that out.

Tim McCarthy

Right

Brock Briggs

And I think the big thing is, is getting to the conclusion as fast as you possibly can. So, okay, I'm interested in this career field, your first inkling is like, oh, I need to go get a degree in that. And then whatever. But it's like, wait a second, why wouldn't you just like maybe once you read a book on it and see if you're actually interested in it first, because for $20, I guarantee you can find out whether you actually liked that or not. 

Tim McCarthy

Yeah

Brock Briggs

So the last like, a little bit in school. But definitely in the last couple of years, I have just been like, kind of saying, yes to everything. So I can figure out what I like. I took a job while the last semester that I was in school, working at a coffee shop, because I thought that I wanted to open a coffee shop when I moved back to Virginia. 

And I found out oh, this might be a little bit harder than I thought. And this will take some more kind of thought and planning. So maybe I won't do that. And then I was kind of more interested in like a private equity job. So I went, got an internship at a private equity firm, found out, ah that's probably also not for me. So going into the mindset of like, when you're looking at your career, thinking about what is the fastest way that I can validate that this is what I wanna do, so that you can say no, very quickly. 

And then you know, you know, like, if you're interested in a certain field, you read your book, you mark it off onto the next one, and just kind of steadily go down the list till you find that thing that clicks. And finance has kind of been that. I think that owning a small and medium sized business is something that also might fill that niche, but I don't know yet. You know, this podcast has like, filled a niche and like giving back to the veteran community as something that I have really come to, like, grow to enjoy and love and realize that that's something that it may not be a career move for me. I don't know if there's a job in this someday, but right now I get a lot of joy doing this. So spending time doing that. That's just the biggest lie. People are told us that you can't make a living doing what you love. And I refuse to believe that.

Tim McCarthy 1:32:30  

Yeah, no, I agree. I remember when you got that job at the coffee shop. And you were alright. Yeah, you got the job. And you came over to my house and you're like telling me about it, you're like I, you know, this is my, this is what I'm planning to open my own coffee shop in Virginia. Like, you have like a lot of plans on it. And then you're like, and because I wanna do that I just got this job at this coffee shop. 

And I remember just being like, holy shit, dude. Like, that is so smart. Like that like, what a brilliant thing to do. You know, rather than just like, jumping right in and like, trying to like figure everything out. You're like, no, I'm gonna go work here. So I can kind of like figure out the ins and outs of the business and like, make sure that it's something that I wanna do. And I remember just like, yet again, like you cracked the code, you know. Like that's how you would do it. 

And I was like, really, really blown away by that. Just think of like, and I remember you left that night, and I was talking to Jessica about it. Like, that's so fucking smart that he's doing that like, oh, my gosh, and then you ended up doing it. And like you said, you're like, “Yeah, yeah not really what I wanna do.” Or it's, you know, whatever, not my thing. So, how does somebody do that, but like, still maintain money and income and stuff like that. I mean, I assumed a lot of this stuff. 

Like at the coffee shop, I have to assume you were not making a ton of money. You're making some money, I'm sure like you're working there, which definitely helps. But like if somebody wanted to do like a free internship and stuff like that, but they still rent to pay. Like, how does somebody do that?

Brock Briggs  1:34:22  

Yeah, I mean, yeah, I was making 7.25 an hour, which literally sucks so bad. My boss was 16 years old. Like if you can believe that. I'm like, literally so up to date on just like the meridian Idaho, like high school gossip. I'm like, 28 fucking years old. And I'm like talking to this girl about oh, this girl's a bitch. Like, that was good. That was kind of a rough time. But

Tim McCarthy  1:34:48  

Yeah, and I'm sure I want you to answer the question, but I'm sure like to them. They're like, man, this like freakin' veteran’s like work here at this coffee shop. I'm his boss. Well, like in reality, like you were the big brain play there. Like you were, that was the smart move to be there. But to like other people working there, it might have like seemed weird to them.

Brock Briggs  1:35:11  

Oh, yeah, I mean, in my head, I'm like looking at, oh, looks like they did shipments of milk once a week. This is how many pounds of coffee that we're using. Like those are the types of questions like I was obviously learning how to make the coffee, but looking at the logistics of, hey, what does it take to run something like this? So, but yeah, I mean, I think that they knew very early on. The second day of training, the guy, one of like, the higher up like leaders of the organization for the region comes in, and he's like, he's younger than me. He's like, 26 to 27. 

And he comes in and he's like, “Dude, what are you doing here?” And I'm like, oh, you know, like, I think that I might wanna open a coffee shop. Like, I think I can find one of these and I wanna learn it. And he even said he was like, “Okay, well, when you spend two weeks learning how to make coffee, just give me a call.” And we'll put you on like a different track, because he knew that I was 

Tim McCarthy

Yeah

Brock Briggs

There for something bigger. What was the question again?

Tim McCarthy  1:36:15  

Yeah, yeah, sorry. 

Brock Briggs

Oh, what kind of people do that? 

Tim McCarthy

Yeah, yep. Yep.

Brock Briggs 1:36:19  

I think that there's a lot of, you hear a lot of stories in like, kind of early entrepreneurship of people that are like, “Oh, I just quit my job.” And like, went full time and like, just put everything on the line. And that's all bullshit like that. That doesn't happen successfully a lot. You hear about the success stories. You hear one of those for every 1000, that doesn't work out. So I don't think that that's the right way to do things. I think that you need to really focus on getting your time right.

And people have so much time on their hands, and they wasted away doing little things that aren't moving their life forward. So, oh, and what I'm gonna circle back to that in a second. But you're not going to get your dream job just right off the gun. You can't just like step into something, and you'll be good to go on it. Sometimes you gotta work the job that you don't want to be doing. But using your off time to like, explore the next option. So like, during the time while I was going to school, I mean, I was basically living on my GI Bill. I lived at home, like in my parents house with them. 

And I'm like buying groceries for my family and like helping to clean up on the weekends to like sort of pay rent. And that was kind of like a unique opportunity that like maybe not everybody has. But 

Tim McCarthy

Sure

Brock Briggs

Regardless, you work 40, 50 hours a week, okay, what are you doing with the rest of the other time? You're not gonna just like roll right into what you're doing. Or what you want to be doing. You have to kind of create that and it's the barrier. But like, it's also the way to go to. There's a phrase in like, in stoicism that's like the problem is the way or like, whatever the barrier is the way something along those lines. 

And the excuse that people make, oh, I don't have time. I don't have this. I don't have that. Well, like, cool, like the people that figure out how to work around that are the people that are gonna be successful. So like, whatever it is your hobby like you, you know, you're one of the hardest workers I know, like you work everything crazy hours. But you still find time to like stream on your off days and like make YouTube videos and whatever. 

And, you know, it may not be something that you can do full time yet, but you love it enough to work on it when you're just exhausted. 

Tim McCarthy

Yeah

Brock Briggs

And I think that that is the true tell of how you found something that you're passionate about, like this podcast is a lot of work for both of us. 

Tim McCarthy

Yeah

Brock Briggs

But we both find time to do it, even though we both work full time and we're not getting paid for doing this. So finding going down the route of like what I was talking about earlier, trying a bunch of different things until you find the thing that you would do without getting paid. And you're just willing to kind of like take a beating almost like you'd pay to do it. Like this podcast, we're paying to do this podcast because we like it so much. 

And just spend as much time as you can on it. You know that's and that means sacrificing some other things. You know that sacrificing your Netflix time after work. Congrats, like the people that are hustling and moving forward in life. They don't fucking watch Netflix. They're working. You know they're, a guy on Twitter I saw the other day, he said, work five to nine. So you can escape the nine to five. 

Tim McCarthy

Wow. That took me a second to like, oh, yeah, no, five to nine. Yeah, that's, I mean, yeah. 

Brock Briggs  1:40:21  

Yeah. It's tough. It's really hard. But that's why not everybody finds success in that. And because a lot of people aren't willing to give up the other things to kind of go about doing that. And a little bit of it might be a sense of entitlement. You know, or, “Oh, I worked so hard this week. And, you know, I deserve this time off or whatever.” Like, here's a newsflash like, you don't deserve shit.

Tim McCarthy

Yeah

Brock Briggs

Like you really don't. You know, that's one of the things that I disagree so wholeheartedly with about a lot of people in our generation is because we do have a very deserving mindset. And that's good, if you can channel it into ways that are like, hey, I deserve to be successful. Not, I deserve to have more time off. 

Tim McCarthy

Right, right. 

Brock Briggs

And so when you think that you deserve to be successful, you're willing to put in the work to do it. 

Tim McCarthy

Yeah 

Brock Briggs

And, yeah, that means like, it takes a lot of time, it's uncomfortable, it sucks. But like I get, I look forward to the weekends, because that's the time when I have the most uninterrupted time to work on the things that I care about. And I'm not saying that I am like a role model by any means. I have done a lot of things wrong, and I still am nowhere near where I want to be. But I think that that mentality and attitude is right. And I think over the long term that will come back to, and will be rewarded for it.

Tim McCarthy  1:41:59  

And I think too, the biggest thing that I've kind of taken away from all that stuff that you're talking about is being willing to put your ego on the line. Like being willing to be the 28 year old who goes and works at a coffee shop, so that he can, like maybe get some funny looks like, “Dude, what the fuck are you doing here?” Like you have a bachelor's degree, like what are you doing here? But like, you're the big brain in the room, like, you know what I mean? You're there. You're not just like they're taking orders and like talking about gossip. Like you're there paying attention to like all like you said, all the logistics and and kind of putting your ego on the line to take an unpaid internships so that you can learn the business, so that then you can keep moving forward on what it is that you ultimately wanna do. 

And I think that that's very commendable. And not a lot of people are willing to do something like that. And I think that that really is gonna be something that makes you successful, you know. That's gonna be a big divider in your life is you personally were willing to do that. When I don't know if I know another person that would be willing to do that. So that's a super cool thing. That I mean, yeah, absolutely. 

We should probably start wrapping up here. What advice do you have for somebody that wants to get into finance? I mean, I know you dove into a bunch of books. And I mean, first from the outside looking in. And I don't know the first thing about finance. It's a scary thing. Like there's a lot to it. Where would somebody even begin like, how do you start in that?

Brock Briggs  1:43:57  

That's a tough one. I think that it depends what so like with any kind of broad category. There's a lot of different things that make up finance. I think that that would be the first place to start is figuring out what within mini subject within that interests you. And so like within finance, you know, maybe there's personal finance, like, you know, coaching and advising like on that. There's investing. There's investment banking. There's private equity. There's venture capital. There's like all of these different subsets of what like kind of make up a much larger category. 

And I think that it would come back to something that I said earlier is just start, find the thing that requires the least investment from you, that will tell you the answer that you need. So and it to me, that's usually a book. Like you gotta be freakin' ready to read on. And maybe that's just like my bias. I'd love to read. But it's because I have learned a lot. And it has guided my decisions just from reading so much. So if you, if somebody is drawn to finance, go read a book on personal finance and coaching. 

And you know, if you can't make it through the first 10 pages, like that's probably not for you. Or go talk to, the other kind of piece in the tree that I look to is, if you can read a book on it, or if you can talk to somebody that does what is in that field. People love talking about themselves. And if you can find somebody or even cold call somebody and say, “Hey, I'd love 15 minutes of your time. I'll buy you coffee, to just hear about your job and what you do. And whether you like it or not, nobody will say no to that. Nobody. 

Tim McCarthy

Yeah, yeah

Brock Briggs

A lot of people you're talking about ego a second ago, a lot of people are very scared to cold outreach, or whatever. People in the industry are a very good resource. Twitter has been a great way for me to connect with people that are much much smarter than me. And just in like the probably the last two years that I've spent working on Twitter, I've probably had maybe 30 to 40 people that I have just a cold DM and said, “Hey, would you get on a call with me for 20 minutes? I saw this tweet that you said. I'd love to hear about that.” Not one of them has said no. 

Tim McCarthy

Wow!

Brock Briggs

And I think that that's not just Twitter, that's I think that that's life in general. People are more than willing to help somebody below them because they were there. And somebody gave them the in at that at one point. So go talk to somebody in the industry, or, you know, read a book on it and see if it interests you. I can speak maybe more to the investing thing, just more specifically, because that's where a lot of my interests lie. 

And that start investing your own money. You can read 100 books on investing, and nothing will teach you quicker than losing $1,000 In five minutes. Like you'll learn some lessons really, really quick. That will not be nearly as impactful as if you would have like read about it. And that's what I kind of did is trial by fire. I pulled like I said earlier, I pulled my entire Navy retirement. I mean, there wasn't that much money. It was like $12,000, which at the time was a lot. 

But I took that out and put it into my own retirement account and started reading and started making investments and like doing these certain things. And I'm a 10x better investor than I was a couple years ago when I started but still a long ways to go. And like anything it's you're never arriving. You're constantly learning, you know?

Tim McCarthy  1:47:59  

Yeah, absolutely. What is your real quick, your professional opinion on like Doge, Shiba Inu? I mean, are we diamond hands heavy invest?

Brock Briggs  1:48:11  

Yes. Quit your job today, day trade Doge, Shiba. All of them.

Tim McCarthy

I’m just kidding.

Brock Briggs

No, I know.

Tim McCarthy  1:48:21  

Cool. Do you have I mean, any personal advice, anything else that you wanna kind of get off your chest?

Brock Briggs 1:48:29  

Yeah. I think that one of the bigger critical elements that I have seen, that's driven just my own success. And that's I say that kind of half heartedly. I'm, like I said, I'm not anywhere near where I'd like to be. But one of the big things that has helped me get to the position that I'm in, is maintaining a good balance of kind of a three prong stool, and that's your physical, your mental and like your spiritual health. 

Spiritual, I don't say religion, because that's, I think that it's much bigger than not. But spiritual in the sense of asking yourself the question of why you're here, and what you're working towards a really, really good exercise. I'm gonna tie this into money for a second. But the question of, if you had $100 million, or even the thought of never having to work for money, again, what would you be working towards? And asking those types of questions will get you towards, or at least get you closer to asking the right questions about why you're doing what you're doing every day. 

If your job is not helping you get to that goal, you're not doing the right job. And I think that we are driven and should be acting towards things that are much larger than money. For me, giving back and empowering the veteran community is that thing. I think that that is a purpose that I'm working towards, that's much larger than just a job and financial gain. That's the spiritual one. Mental, one, be a constant learner. Be willing to just, like you mentioned, the ego again a couple minutes ago, like, be willing to be wrong a lot. 

And realize that some of the smartest people in the world will tell you that talking to them, you think that they think about themselves that they're the dumbest person in the world. And it's just because you realize that the more that you learn, the more you realize you don't know. And so be humble and find ways to continue to grow and learn more. I think that one of the best ways to do that is to read and understand not everybody's a big reader but I couldn't advocate for it more. Find a way to exercise your brain and grow that muscle.

And on the physical aspect, I think that people perform best mentally at their job and the rest of their relationships, everything when you're physically fit and you're eating right. I’m all about some junk food and whatever. But I can even speak to well enough speak to the clarity of mine that I feel when I'm like well exercised. That feeling is just unmatched. And I think it's addicting in a good way. So I think that those three things should be any beginner’s first thought about just like trying to get their life in a better position. And those were the three three things that I did. And I have much more to show for my life because of those three.

Tim McCarthy  1:52:06  

Yeah, yeah, that's very clear. You definitely, as a personal friend and you know, anybody that knows you. You're somebody that a lot of people look up to and look to for advice. And so you've done a freakin killer job in and you're killing it. And I'm excited to see where you go. What's the next move for you?

Brock Briggs  1:52:34  

Well, if Spotify wants to come in and offer us $100 million a year exclusive deal, like I'm ready to go full time on the podcast. No, I don't know. I'm just kind of taking it day by day. I like to have a lot of ideas about things. But as my past history and other people's history has shown I think we're very poor predictors of the future. But trying to optimize every experience on a daily basis and be open to new ideas and opportunities I think is the best way. I love this podcast. Gonna keep working to grow this and try and influence military members and veterans in a positive way. And I think that's the most important right now. Anyway,

Tim McCarthy  1:53:25  

Cool, man. Well, I think that this this episode, like I said at the beginning, it will allow the listeners to of kind of connect with the voice a little bit better and understand who you are as a person and you know why everybody that knows you freakin loves you so. Dude, thank you for having me do the interview and allowed me to be on the podcast, man.

Brock Briggs  1:53:49  

Yeah, of course. We might need to have you hosting more. You got that smooth radio voice.

Tim McCarthy  1:53:56  

Yeah, I don't know. I got the face for radio. I don't know about the voice but 

Brock Briggs

Sounds good, man. Thanks so much. 

Tim McCarthy

Yeah, brother.