Ministering to Victims of Sex Trafficking

Hello and welcome to Self Talk. I'm your host, Dr. Ray Self. Very glad you're with me today. This show, as always, is brought to you by the International College of Ministry, a Holy Spirit-filled online seminary, now enrolling at icmcollege.org. Thank you for being a part of that, and today, I have a very powerful show dealing with a, a topic that people don't like to talk about but it is such a huge topic, we must talk about it. I'm going to be getting into the topic of sex trafficking today with my dear friends Jim and Dawn Hamm, who have a mission to rescue girls from this horrible, horrible problem in our nation so stay tuned.

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Well, welcome to Self Talk. I've got my guests here today, Jim and Dawn Hamm. Very glad you're with me, um, thanks for being here.

Dawn: Hi Dr. Ray, good to be here.

Dr. Ray: And you know, I've known you guys for years. I think I met you down in Fort Myers some years ago before you got into this particular ministry and I know we go way back so let's get into it. Tell me, first of all, um, what's the name of your ministry?

Jim: Well, our formal name is From the Ground Up Ministries Incorporated. We shortened it and we call it Ground Up Ministries and that's what most people um, are accustomed to hearing.

Dr. Ray: Okay, so, Ground Up Ministries. And always, so tell me, what does Ground Up Ministries do?

Jim: Well, we are, we are, uh, a licensed group home, uh, in the State of Florida under the Department of Children and Families and we house under 18 children that are rescued from human trafficking.

Dr. Ray: So you're housing girls that are rescued from human trafficking. Wow. And let me ask you… To me, a really big question ], uh, why, why, what, what's the problem and why, why are you involved in this?

Dawn: Well um, Jim and I both got called to do this and we, we really didn't know that it was such a prevalent problem, especially here in the United States, Florida being the third highest prevalence of sexual human trafficking and um, we just started this, uh, working with other, um, missions that were involved in rescuing girls from human trafficking about seven years ago. And we saw such a dire need for additional housing so we opened up a group home where we could take more girls and it, and what we have is a long-term, faith-based recovery residential program, um, you know, to help these girls uh, you know, through the help of Jesus Christ all the way, um, become… Our mantra is Rescued, Redeemed, and Restored.

Dr. Ray: Well, let me ask you a question. So when it, when a child, and it's, it to me it's just so heartbreaking to, to even think about a child involved in sex trafficking. Um, what, what are the issues with these kids when you pick them up? What is, what are they like? What's their thinking or what's their identity issues or what's going on with them?

Dawn: That's a really good question because you know, Jim and I originally thought wow, they're going to be so thankful and grateful that they're, they're saved and off the streets, but they're literally so broken and brainwashed they're um, they're angry, they're frustrated, I mean, they're happy that they have a safe place to sleep and food to eat and they don't have to have sex seven to ten times a day, um, but they're wondering what do you want from me? And when they begin to feel real love, they don't understand what it is and, and we almost get a pushback for a little while. And, you know, we've identified a couple different phases that these girls go through, like the first phase is kind of like the honeymoon phase where they're like I said, happy to be off the streets, but they're wondering what, what they want and, and then we usually get like um, this just this angry phase where they're pushing us away, testing, you know, do you really love me? Are you really there for me? Because they've never been loved unconditionally, um, and it's, it's really challenging. A couple years ago, I had a girl in a fit of rage. She literally broke both of my legs, um, and you know, at that point most people would walk away but I couldn't- just kidding. 

Dr. Ray: So wait a minute, so these girls, they're pretty- this is to me stuff I've never, I never realized because, you know, I guess the average person would think well, a girl gets rescued from the horrible thing of sex trafficking, they're just going, gonna be Oh, thank you, thank you, thank you, we love you, God bless you for saving my life for this, uh, taking me away from this horrible thing but, but it's really much more complicated, huh?

Jim: Yeah, and the trauma that they've been through is so complex, um, I often tell people that, you know, just the average teenager can be complicated and then when you add the trauma to it, it's almost, it's almost a teenager on steroids in, in many aspects because um, they just, they just don't respond like most teenagers do um, to, to everyday questions and everyday tasks. And sometimes they, because of their upbringings with zero, or one, or dysfunctional parenting, um, that, that, that was part of the problem to begin with. They, they come and they, you tell them to load a dishwasher and they don't know how to load a dishwasher. Just things that we take for granted they don't know how to do in many cases and you have to teach them how to do those things.

Dr. Ray: Let me ask a quick question because I would think, and this is me being a little bit too naive. You know, you think okay, here comes this girl out of uh, she's rescued, she's been kidnapped and all of a sudden, she's rescued and so she's immediately reunited with her family, but it doesn't actually happen like that, right?

Jim: No, no it doesn't, um…We, what we have found is there's a common thread and the lack of fatherhood in all of their cases is astounding. Absentee fatherhood or fatherhood that exploited the child and, and/or incarcerated parents or um, you know, drug trafficking. Uh, just very, very dysfunctional things in the family that if, that have caused kids to either be trafficked by their parents or run away and be um, exploited on runaway, um, by traffickers.

Dawn: So Ray, what is something that every um, woman wants to hear? As women, we want to hear oh, you know, you're beautiful, uh, we love you, we're gonna take care of you. So these traffickers know how to exploit um, you know, the things that God has created us as women to long for and these men, usually men but it can be women too because this is a very lucrative business, it's a 55 billion dollar industry worldwide, it's the second fastest crime in the world second to uh, cyber crimes, and it's, it's money and perversion driven. Um, like if I sell you drugs, I have to go get more drugs to sell you. If I sell you weapons, I have to go get more weapons, but I can sell this girl over and over and over again so um, yeah, and they're, they're sold seven to ten times a day and I'm talking about here in Florida. Um, the average pimp in our area makes between $350 and $380 000 per year per girl and they usually have 10 to 12 girls in their, they call them posses, because they refer to them in animal derogatory, you know, terms.

Dr. Ray: So this is, I mean, incredibly demonic. I mean, this is incredibly evil. And of course, I know both of you are Holy Spirit-filled Christians and so how do you bring the Holy Spirit and the love of Christ and the power of Christ into this? I mean, tell me about that.

Dawn: Well, the first thing is, you know, we, we pray, pray and then when we're done praying, we pray some more and then we keep praying.

Dr. Ray: Yeah, okay.

Dawn: So I mean, there is no… the book that's written to tell you how to do this is the bible but basically, you know, Jim and I get before the Lord every day and say all right God, what's today's plan? And the Holy Spirit convicted me last year- we had a fast at church- and I used to say things like wow, this is really hard and these girls are so difficult, and basically what I was doing was I was speaking into being things that I did not want, um, you know. I, so I, the Holy Spirit convicted me. I repented and I began to say okay, Holy Spirit, how do we get these girls to you faster? You are the healer, you are the redeemer, you are the restorer. The next girl that we got in um, she came in on a Thursday. Sunday morning, she gave her life to Christ and two weeks later, she was baptized so that's what I'm talking about. That's what, that's what's needed, you know.

Dr. Ray: That's so powerful, that is so powerful.

Dawn: Yes and it's, it's um, that's my prayer. Now God, how do I get them to you faster? And we have an incredible church and an amazing youth group, we have spiritual uh, Spirit-filled women who mentor our girls, they take them through a bible study, it's like the first one is the book of John, um, we also have them go to Spirit-filled counselors that um, can help them negotiate the, you know, the trauma. I mean, some of this stuff, you know, I know that God can deliver girls instantly and sometimes he does but sometimes it's a, it's a, you know, that working out your, your salvation with fear and trembling, um. And it's an ongoing process that requires um, consistency, all the gifts of the Spirit, and, and a team and an army of people that are like-minded in Christ to, to get these girls because the devil is really angry when these girls come off the streets because he feels like he had them. He was well on his way to kill, steal and destroy in each one of their lives. So, um. So to answer your question is get them to Jesus as quickly as possible.

Dr. Ray: I'm just amazed by this, I mean, your ministry is definitely heavy duty. I mean, it breaks my heart and also gives me hope…

Dawn: Yeah.

Dr. Ray: …just listening to you, it's heartbreaking but it's also showing hope that there is out there, and I think as a Christian, all of us need to be aware of the magnitude of this problem and, and we all need to be in prayer and I know you're going to also talk about practical things that we can all, we can, we can do as well. So you have a home, and so these girls are rescued, I guess, by law enforcement and then they're brought to you, right?

Dawn: Well, law enforcement, FBI, uh, Department of Children and Families, um, you know, there's several different ways that, that they get rescued.

Dr. Ray: And they live with you for how long? I mean, they live with you, right?

Dawn: Yes, yes. Jim and I, unlike other group homes, we are the 24-7 caregivers. We do have people that come in and out throughout the day and through the weekend but we are the consistent face and that's really, we've,  we've found that, that's really what they need because they want a family, they want to belong. And you know, I just want to talk about Jim for a couple minutes, like, it's- sometimes Jim is the first safe man that they have ever been around and um, he can, you know, first of all he demonstrates to the girls how a woman should be treated in the way that he treats me and secondly, you know, he'll take them out one-on-one for breakfast and he'll say, you know, they'll talk about things like well this is the way a man should speak to you, this is the way a man should treat you, you know, um, because that, that whole concept of love gets so twisted, the devil just takes it and you know, like um, it, it's just, he perverts it, you know. 

Dr. Ray: I want to thank you too because this, demonstrating what a Christian man should be to these women, I can't even imagine how powerful that is, and thank you for doing that.

Jim: Yeah, I should say that um, each girl is, though there are common threads, um, I, I should qualify that and say that each girl is different in terms of um, the trauma that, the level of trauma they've been through is… varies from girl to girl and determined by their upbringing and how long they were trafficked and you know, we have girls that were trafficked for a couple of weeks, we have girls that were trafficked for years, uh, so they have different levels of trauma that you have to deal with. Some, some um, react differently to that than others and the other thing I would say is when Dawn was talking, I was thinking of this that most people think that trafficking doesn't exist in their community wherever they live and I tell people constantly whatever community you live in, it's there.

Dawn: Yes.

Jim: It's, in some level or form, it's there. You just don't see it every day and when people don't see it, they don't think it exists. 

Dr. Ray: Well, I want to go back to something Dawn said that really touched my heart. I have a daughter and I always, I always wanted to raise my daughter and show her what it meant, you know, to have a Christian man and so in her life, and the reason you touched my heart there was when my daughter went to college, she called me one day and she said dad, I want to meet a man who will treat me the way you treated me, and it just touched my heart so much, and wow. And I think what Dawn just said, I don't want to skip over this because you showing these girls what it means to be a man and how a man should treat a woman, I think is very, very important in our society and I commend you for doing that. I think that's very powerful.

Dawn: Yeah, that is absolutely huge because like Jim said, most men are missing in their lives and it's almost acceptable, um, in some cultures that we've been dealing with that um, you know, like, like they have a main girlfriend and then they have this thing called side chicks and it's uh, uh, completely appropriate. And I'm like no, it's not, you know. And then, you know, trying to explain to these girls that um, that, you know, God made sex. Sex is supposed to be great but it's meant to be that for the confines of marriage, you know, that they feel like they can never um, regain that, that purity again. And that's where baptism comes in, where when they go down in that water and they come back up, they are made new in Christ, you know. And, and that's one of the things like I was saying earlier, just getting back to Christ but yeah, I definitely couldn't and wouldn't, would not want to do this without Jim, um, and there are times when he is sensing the tension in the house or whatever and he'll say hey come on, let's go for a drive or let's go get an ice cream cone or let's go get a coffee, you know, and it just kind of de-escalates. And because sometimes they don't even know why they're getting worked up, you know, like they get triggered and they don't even know what it's about.

Dr. Ray: Well I'll tell you what, and Jim, you know, I want to thank you again for what you're doing and Dawn for what you guys are doing. I, I know this, that it is, as a counselor, as a Christian Counselor, I have seen uh, I have counseled girls who have become promiscuous and have lived that type of lifestyle. Maybe they weren't victims of sex trafficking, they were just doing it on their own and the common thread was really missing the Father's love and affirmation and not having that love, unconditional love and affirmation. And if you're a father listening to me and you have a daughter, love your daughter, hug your daughter, give her that affirmation, nurture your daughter because if you do not, she's going to seek, she's going to seek it from guys and, and she's going to seek it in a very perverted way. I've seen it happen over and over and over again so I think that's critical to, to love our daughters unconditionally, show them the Father's love. But then, I know you're helping to fill that gap, but ultimately it's God who fills that gap.

Dawn: Yes.

Jim: Yeah, and the statistics say that one in four girls will be sexually assaulted by the time they're 18, that's staggering. 25% of women sexually assaulted as children, that's unbelievable.

Dawn: And that is, that is Christian and non-Christian community, those statistics are across the board.

Dr. Ray: I think we have an answer as Christians. You mentioned baptism and you know, I'm thinking about all these horrible things that have happened to these young girls but we still have a redeemer and we still, and they can still become that new creation and God's a God who restores and redeems and gives us a brand new start and new beginning and cleanses us from all unrighteousness. I mean, thank God for- how do we make it without Jesus? I don't know.

Jim: Amen. And that's what's so gratifying, Dr. Ray, is when we see girls um, that are in their 20s now, that are married and you know um, have jobs and you know, those kind of success stories that are still in touch with us, that, that really, really um, that's what make- those victories make it worthwhile. 

Dr. Ray: That keeps you going, huh?

Dawn: Yeah.

Jim: Amen.

Dawn: Yeah, Jim is referring to the first girl we ever had, like eight years ago or seven and a half years ago, um, you know, just an incredible testimony she has about trafficking and the way God delivered her but um, she got her degree and this past uh, spring Jim had the privilege of officiating the, the marriage ceremony and there was just so many, I was feeling this, this flood of emotions because this is, this, this ministry is not, yes, it is gratifying, but it's also, you know, we're on the front lines of very angry people um, that are so broken and so hurting and um, you know, you have to be really clear about what your calling is, not to have any expectations, I mean, there was a lot of uh, I know brokenness that Jim and I had to go through. Um, and, and you know, I didn't want to admit that, the pride that I had and, and I wanted to, I wanted to fix these girls, I wanted to make their life better. And the Holy, the Holy Spirit got me to the end of me quickly and said no, that is not your role. Empty you of you so I can fill up you and them, and you know, that, that sounds so simplistic but it was a huge lesson for me.

Dr. Ray: So it's not fixing them which is, that's human nature, we always want to fix another person who we think has a problem…

Dawn: Yes.

Dr. Ray: but that usually creates more problems when you're trying to fix another person, yeah.

Dawn: Right.

Dr. Ray: My counseling students, I always tell them we're not here to fix, we're here to serve and um, and I like what you said even more, you're here to be a vessel of the Holy Spirit and allow the whole- not trying to fix them and allow the Holy Spirit to flow through you into them and let the Great Physician do his job. I like that.

Dawn: Yep.

Jim: Amen.

Dr. Ray: Much better. Uh, much bet- I've often said that whenever you begin to fix someone, you're actually rejecting them.

Dawn: Yes.

Dr. Ray: You're telling them they're breaking…

Jim: That's a great point, that's a great point.

Dawn: Yeah.

Dr. Ray: Yeah. So your ministry is called The Ground Up, and you're taking girls that have come out of the horrible, horrible nightmare of sex trafficking and they can't go back to their families right now, there's a family, is dysfunctional, unhealthy, there's no way just to put them back with mom and daddy, and so they have to be…you, you are their family I guess, right?

Dawn: Yes, yes. And you know, Jim mentioned in the beginning that we, we house girls that are under 18. Well last year, we had to open a new branch of the ministry because we identified that these 18 year old girls are not ready to go out and live on their own yet so we now have an over 18 program where they can continue to stay with us until they are 23 years old, um, and even then I tell the girls our door is always open. Every holiday you are welcome. If you go off to school and come back, you have a place to stay. This is your home as long as you want it to be. And they, they need that sense of belonging and that hey, these people have my back, you know? Because we have girls that would, they'd be here, they would age out of the program and then they would just be, you know, they're not equipped, they're, they don't know how, even though they've been with us for for a year or so, that's not enough time. I mean, I know at 18 I thought I could live on my own. I couldn't, and I had two parents that caught me when I fell, you know?

Dr. Ray: Right. So you're teaching these girls, I was kind of looking at information about your ministry, you're teaching life skills, you're counseling them, uh, you're teaching them nutrition, exercise. Uh, you mentioned socialization, you're teaching them about boundaries, and then you're, sometimes you just have to do behavior modification and you're doing all this with the help of the Holy Spirit. That's, That's a lot. I mean, God bless you for what you do. I mean, you have to wear a lot of hats, I would imagine.

Dawn: Yes.

Jim: Yeah, and Dr. Ray, um, these girls come to us often with lack of parenting and they're, they're um, not used to boundaries and they, we gave pushback because of the boundaries, because that's the first time they've had parental boundaries of any kind…

Dr. Ray: Right.

Jim: So, so that can be difficult. It's like shoving the horse back in the barn, so to speak. 

Dr. Ray: Of course, kids, kids are going to test your boundaries. Every parent knows that as soon as you set a boundary, that kid's going to test that boundary to see if it's for real or not.

Dawn: Yeah.

Jim: You are right. 

Dawn: So that's what you touched on, the behavior modification program. And basically um, I'm sure that the listening audience is familiar with like little kids like, if they make their bed, you give them a sticker and if they get so many stickers, they get to pull something out of the prize box. Well, that doesn't work for teenagers…

Dr. Ray: My wife does that with me all the time.

All: Laugh.

Dawn: Well, for you Ray, I would make the, modify- the, the incentive would be your cup of coffee. Don't get your coffee until you make your bed.

Dr. Ray: That bed will be made quick.

All: Laugh.

Dawn: So what we do is, just because we want, you know, we have four main pillars of our program, it's honesty, integrity, peace, and respect. And then the girls, the girls are educated pretty frequently on what those mean and I'll tell you, none of the girls know what integrity is. If you ask them what honesty is, they say it's telling the truth but they do not know what integrity is, so that is something that we teach and we model and how we teach it is that behavior modification program where we say, you know, we have five daily expectations and two weekly expectations and these are simple things like make sure you hang your towels up, you put your dishes in the dishwasher, um, you know. Because when you have four teenage girls living in the house, you all have to make sure you're doing your part or else it gets chaotic, um. And it, you can miss one of those a day and still get your privileges but when you miss two, then you don't get your privileges and they don't like missing privileges and they want to see are you really going to take those privileges away. And when, when they learn that yes, we are and it's not a punishment, it's like, you know, you, you made a choice. And that's what we're trying to do, we're trying to teach them to make good choices for themselves. It's not about Jim and I trying to control them, it's about the choices that you make so that you can make these good choices way past the time you're gone, you know?

Dr. Ray: Okay. So, I mean, that's, that's fantastic. And so again, you're, you're taking these girls who’re rescued out of sex trafficking and just a couple of quick things. Uh, you, you mentioned two, two things I really want to get to before we close is, one is how large is the program? You touched on that but just kind of looking at some information, you said it's a 55 billion dollar industry and that Florida, where we're broadcasting from, is third in the nation in human trafficking. It's just, it's just mind-boggling. It's just, and you know, without Jesus it would be incredibly depressing and I mean, still is very sad. So the problem is huge. The problem is gigantic. Me as a father, because my daughter's older right now, how do we protect our kids from this? How do we protect our daughters and maybe our sons? How do we protect them as parents, you parents listening to me? Give us advice on how to protect our children from this horrible, horrible problem.

Dawn: Well first of all, um, you know, you, you hit the number one thing Ray, and that's for fathers in particular to affirm their kids. And I do want to say that one in six of the sexual trafficking victims are boys, it is not exclusive to girls, and the average age right now is 10 years old for traffic.

Dr. Ray: Wow. 10 years old.

Dawn: Yep and, and uh, I mean, there's all kinds of, you know, we won't get into that but all kinds of sub-perversions that we're not going to talk about today, but um. So, number one, affirm your children. Number two, um, phones are not phones. They are weapons. Um, there are, there are any- I, I off the top of my head I can say there's 40 websites where kids can be lured in and on the outside, a parent may walk by and look at it and think oh that's perfectly fine, it's just a game or it's just a this or it's just a that. You need to know what your kids are looking at and you can either do that through parental controls where um… when we first give girls phones, their phones are hooked to our phones so we can see every website they visit, every picture they take, every text message that gets sent, every phone number that is called and how long the call. So there's a lot of different things that you can do. Um, limit screen time, you know, they don't have to be on their computers all day long, in their phones all day long. Go ahead, Jim.

Jim: Yeah we, we hand kids um, I see kids six, seven, eight years old carrying phones and using them unbridled without any um, supervision. The parents just let them go. They don't realize the, the um, the dangers that lurk out there for, for all these kids. One in seven kids under the age of 18 are approached for sexual exploitation online so that, that shows if it's one in seven that's, that's a lot. Yeah.

Dr. Ray: One in seven kids are approached, wow.

Dawn: Online.

Jim: Over the internet. 

Dr. Ray: So, and now of course, your iphone is the internet…

Dawn: Yeah.

Dr. Ray: so you come through the phone. It's not always a laptop, it's actually your ipad, your iphone. So we need to watch what they're watching, know what they're watching…

Jim: And, and the emojis now that, that are coded sexually. Um, kids know what those are and adults have to learn what those are and we had, we, it was an eye-opener for us when we did a training on that and how fast that is with, with emoji- sexual emojis that are out there.

Dr. Ray: So the emoji is a secret sexual language…

Dawn: Yeah. And that's what I'm saying…

Jim: Simple symbols, yeah.

Dawn: You can be walking past your kid and just look at the screen and not think anything of it, um. And then you know, there's these sub-screens where on the computer they can be watching something on, on the screen but then at the bottom, there's other stuff that's going on and if you're not in tune to that and you know, let's face it, kids are way more tech-savvy than we are, um. And you know the predators are out there but that's the other thing, to educate your kids and you know, talk to your kids about sex. Sex is a beautiful thing, God made it, but it's meant to be in the confines of marriage, and here's why, and you know, educate them from a Christian perspective on what it is that it's supposed to be. Um, you know, like, and I, it, there's just uh, so I would say, I would say quality time with your kids, limit screen time, know what they're looking at, um, make sure that they're being socialized in an environment that like, don't, don't just drop your kids off. I mean, these predators, uh, they will, they, they know. They, they prey on girls that, that are um, that look like they might be a little on the outside that, that tween age, that 10, 11, 12 when they're so uncertain of their bodies and they're, they're just trying to figure out who they are. That's when these, these predators pounce on them, um.

Dr. Ray: So these girls, so we need to be teaching our daughters about these tactics, and our daughters need to know there is such thing as sex trafficking and this is how they do it. And you need to be aware of this. Remember when, years ago, they say we don't take candy from a stranger, don't talk to a stranger, but this is even more serious. 

Dawn: Yes.

Dr. Ray: We've got to teach our kids what to look for. 

Dawn: Yes, yes. And um, you know Ray, there's like three main ways that, that these girls are, are, girls in particular, are being trafficked and one is the guerilla way which is what, the movie Taken, which is what everybody thinks sex trafficking is, um, but actually um, the other one is gangs, gangs. Gangs do sex traffic- trafficking because it is so lucrative, you know, you can make a lot of money. And the third way which is actually the most popular way is the Romeo approach where these guys will, they know all the right things to say like wow, you're so beautiful, like, I'm so lucky that I bumped into you, and, you know, like um, just, you know, they, they literally romanticize and almost date these girls um, and their whole purpose is to get them to trust them so that they can traffic them. And our- listen, if you're 12 years old, are you going to tell your parents that you're hanging out with a 19 year old boy? No.

Dr. Ray: That's so, gosh, it's scary stuff. Look, your ministry as we wrap up here, your ministry is critical, it's important, and I hope our listeners realize how, how vital this is and God bless you for what you're doing.  So how does one, tell us about your ministry, how to connect with you and how could a person listening, if they want to help you, if they want to help you with these girls in your ministry, tell us what we need to know. How do we connect with you?

Dawn: Well, as, thank you for asking that, Dr. Ray, because we are currently in a campaign to raise um, additional funds, uh, to open two more safe houses. We have had 78 placement calls in the last three months that we cannot place because we are filled to capacity, so there's a need. Here you've had 78 calls of girls who need a place and there's no, not enough room for them. So if you're listening to me, please understand the gravity of this. Go ahead and, and I wish um, you know, Jim and I say we pray for the day that we're out of business because we don't want to have to do this, um. So the need is for additional housing. We are in need of another couple or a single woman that has a heart for this ministry, um, that could run one of the other safe houses. We've identified two other houses, one of which is a commercial residential property and the vision that God gave us was to put a coffee shop on the ground floor, thus Ground Up Ministries Coffee, you know, and then that is where our over 18 girls will work to learn additional life skills. Obviously, get paid, but they will also learn business management, food management, not to say that they're going to be in the food business, but when you learn one business, it's kind of easy to move and transition into another. People can get a hold of us through groundupministries.org. We are also on Facebook, we are on Instagram, and we are on Tick Tock, um, and then…

Dr. Ray: ground up, groundupministries.org. If you listen to me, I will put these uh, website in the show notes. And where else, how else can they contact you? 

Dawn: Uh, we're, we're on Facebook for uh, under Ground Up Ministries, same thing with, we're on Tick Tock and Instagram.

Dr. Ray: Okay. And if one- you're listening to me and if somebody really wants to help in a practical way, they want to give to this ministry, how do they, how do we do that? How do we do that?

Dawn: When you go to the website, you're going to see a donate button and a QR code. You can click on those and if you click the QR code, I encourage you and ask you to please share it because this one property in particular, this is like a capital campaign that we are running to raise funds. The woman who owns this property has agreed to owner finance, um, but we're, we're gonna need a million dollars to make this happen and I believe God for big things. I know he can do it I'm not worried about it, um, I'm just trusting him and uh, you know, I don't know how he's gonna do it but I know he can and we're just trusting and believing in him.

Dr. Ray: Okay, so it's groundupministries.org and uh, that would be, I think the primary place people would need to go to. And if God has really touched your heart through this show, um why don't you help out, help out, this is a huge problem. And Dawn and Jim Hamm, are, you're on the front lines, you're the tip of the spear, and you're on the front lines and uh, God bless you for, for what you do. Thank you for being with us today, um, I'm very convicted by this and please, if, parents be aware of this problem, you know. Teach your children. Fathers, affirm your daughters, teach your children, protect your children from this and if you want to help, go to groundupministries.org. Thanks again, Jim and Dawn, um, God bless you for everything you're doing. I'm just, I'm amazed by you, okay.

Jim: Thank you for having us, Dr. Ray.

Dawn: Yes, thank you so much.

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Dr. Ray: So this has been Self Talk, uh I'm Dr. Ray Self. Thank you for listening today, uh, it's been an honor to have you. This has been a very, very powerful show. If you really, if you want to help us continue this show, please go to my website and that's icmcollege.org/selftalk and that's where you can rate and subscribe and follow and do all kinds of cool things. Thank you for listening to Self Talk.