One Encounter heals Anxiety and Depression

Hello everyone, this is Dr. Ray Self welcome to Self Talk. Today’s show is a very interesting show. I'm interviewing Pastor Keith Hodges who has a very powerful story about him and his wife; the early years of their marriage, how his wife suffered horrible depression and anxiety. Um, suicidal tendencies, just, a terrible story and then in one weekend called an encounter weekend, she gets completely free. And so this is a story of a, of a book he's writing called being healed from; Healing From Depression and Anxiety which is healable but his passion for his story, his passion for saving souls and making disciples and defeating the works of the enemy is unparalleled. You're going to enjoy this show a lot.

Hey please don't forget to go to the website for the podcast. That's icmcollege.org/selftalk, and what I need you to do is follow this show and give me a review that- veer- that helps us reach more people. When you do that it, it boosts the ratings of the show, more people find the show, more people hear about the love of Jesus Christ. This is Dr. Ray Self. Thank you for listening.

 

[Intro plays]

 

Hello everyone, it’s Dr. Ray Self. Welcome to Self Talk with me, Dr. Ray Self. I’m very excited about today’s show. I'm sitting next to one of my, my best friends. This is Pastor Keith Hodges from Arab Alabama. Hey Pastor Keith.

 

Pastor Keith: Hello Dr. Ray, good to be with you today.

 

Dr. Ray: I'm so glad you- I'm so glad you're with me. And usually whatever you say Arab Alabama, people go huh? Where? What?

 

Pastor Keith: It’s one of those unique places that you don't hear about a lot but uh, God’s doing some good things there.

 

Dr. Ray: So Arab I guess you would say, is just a little south of Huntsville Alabama.

 

Pastor Keith: A little south of Huntsville, yes sir. Just a small community of about 8500 people and uh, God is doing some amazing things there as a result of just some open hearts to Him. 

 

Dr. Ray: Beautiful, beautiful country. I'm very blessed that I usually go at least once a year…

 

Pastor Keith: Yes sir

 

Dr. Ray: Uh, I get to come up to your church and Minister there and uh, it’s one of my favorite places. Uh, folks if you don’t know, my father’s family is from Alabama just south of Arab, a town called Anniston Alabama. Maybe 50, 60 miles south I think. And so, I have some Alabama roots and my wife and kids, every time I'm around Alabama people my accent comes back.

 

Pastor Keith: Haha. Nothin’ like sweet home Alabama and a little Roll Tide to help you out there.

 

Dr. Ray: Haha; so the Roll Tide I struggle with a little bit…

 

Pastor Keith: laughs

 

Dr. Ray: Because, uh, my family is Ole Miss, you know, hidy tighty but uh, we’ll forgive them for the Roll Tide, we’ll forgive them for the Roll Tide. But this, um. Arab Alabama is a small community but we major church that’s doing incredible impact. You have a campus and Arab and another campus a little town called Holly Pond.

 

Pastor Keith: Yes sir.

 

Dr. Ray: And just as a kind of a sie note, you were telling me about a vision you had, that, it was a vision of Dollar General.

 

Pastor Keith: Yes sir. Yeah, the Lord told me years ago; he said I want you to plant Dollar Generals not Walmarts, and he said every small community deserves a life-giving church and so we just kind of like that about 5 years ago our mission; to begin to plant churches in small communities and bring the hope of the gospel the power of the gospel to change people's lives and uh, so we planted our first campus a little over 3 years ago and I've got a vision in a couple years for our next campus and just believe in God just begin to infiltrate small communities with the gospel. 

 

Dr. Ray: it- you said the vision of your church is you gave me three things…

 

Pastor Keith: So uh, we’re gonna win souls, make disciples and destroy the works of the devil. Those are the three things we hang our hat on and we're just committed to doing what Jesus did and making a difference. 

 

Dr. Ray: Win souls, make disciples, destroy the works of the devil.

 

Pastor Keith: Yes sir, absolutely.

 

Dr. Ray: I mean, that’s what it’s about. 

 

Pastor Keith: That's absolutely what it’s about.

 

Dr. Ray: I even hope this podcast does that.

 

Pastor Keith: Yeah, absolutely.

 

Dr. Ray: So, it’s so exciting. And folks, this church, it's just Dynamic. When you go there the anointing is just so powerful. Uh, you have a very incredible congregation that love to worship the Lord, you do a lot of amazing things. You have a big celebrate recovery program I know as well. I appreciate it- I've seen two hundred people celebrate recovery there before.

Pastor Keith: We’ve seen God a lot of great things. We have a heart for our community and love reaching out outside the walls of the church and making a difference and kind of addressing those needs, uh, that everybody is struggling with, you know. That's the power of the gospel, is that it does address those needs.

 

Dr. Ray: And there’s so much we could talk about but one thing I wanted to focus on was, uh, amazingly enough Pastor Keith and I have been together last 4 days and uh, this is- what I'm going to say is hard to say but it’s true is true. We just rode our bicycle across the State of Florida.

 

Pastor Keith: Yes sir.

 

Dr. Ray: We rode our bikes from the Atlantic Ocean to the Gulf of Mexico.

 

Pastor Keith: Yes we did.

 

Dr. Ray: In 4 days.

 

Pastor Keith: 162 miles and just an amazing journey together.

 

Dr. Ray: Yeah, we did it praising Jesus all the way.

 

Pastor Keith: Absolutely.

 

Dr. Ray: But in the last few days, you’ve been talking to me about a story. A story with you and your wife. An amazing story. And you're writing a book about this story now, and part of the story has to do with this horrible disease and demonic affliction of depression and anxiety that almost killed your wife…

 

Pastor Keith: Absolutely.

 

Dr. Ray: multiple times. And I have a heart for that ‘cause it- that horrible affl- if you can- I mean, the American Medical Society calls it a disease, uh some people call it demonic oppression, all I know is that the- demonic oppression- but depression is deadly and anxiety and it can destroy your life and I suffered through that and God delivered me but your story with you and your wife is amazing and you're writing a book about it.

 

Pastor Keith: Writing a book and I going to call it uh, Overcoming Anxiety and Depression, kind of our story to freedom and my wife, Kelly is her name. She’s uh, she's one of my heroes of the faith because I saw her persevere and fight through a 10-year battle of suicidal depression. Ah, so she grew up like many people, unfortunately, in a very abusive home. Ah, she was sexually molested as a child, uh she saw trauma and abuse just repeatedly over and over in her entire family and that was manifested. Right after we got married it just entered the ministry and she started having flashbacks which led to her first suicidal attempt, uh and she slit her wrists and tried to take her life. And so that began what would be a 10 year battle that God has brought us through by his grace with so many challenges.

 

Dr. Ray: And you’re pastoring during this time, right?

 

Pastor Keith: We’re pastoring, uh…

 

Dr. Ray: Weren’t you pastoring a Methodist church?

 

Pastor Keith: A small Methodist church, yes sir. 

 

Dr. Ray: And then, uh, you went from there to an independent- you uh, founded your own church…

 

Pastor Keith: Yes sir.

 

Dr. Ray: But you’re uh, you're a senior pastor, lead pastor during this entire time with a wife who is horribly; being horribly oppressed, attacked, whatever you want to call it, by this disease; and I call it a disease. I can’t even imagine the pain and how difficult that might have been. 

 

Pastor Keith: It was, it was definitely uh, hands down one of the most challenging seasons of our life. It definitely was… God took it as he does all things right? And if we yield to him and allow the Holy Spirit to work, and he has literally transformed our lives and created now a opportunity and ministry for us to help literally thousands of people. 

 

Dr. Ray: And so you're; so you're writing a book.

 

Pastor Keith: Yep.

 

Dr. Ray: And the book’s gonna tell your, your story

 

Pastor Keith: Gonna tell our story and really, the heart of the book is not just telling our story but teaching when I just call transformational truths. Truths from the word of God that God used to change our lives. Uh, my wife after a 10 year battle of severe depression, uh 3 months before the Lord heald her and delivered her she was in the psychiatric center. Uh, she came out of the psychiatric center after 12 days on uh, she was taking 24 prescribed pills everyday. She was a walking zombie. I'll never forget the psychiatrist at the psychiatric center basically said you know, here’s your wife, He said we’ve got her medicated enough where she should not hurt herself. And she was literally a walking zombie and 3 months later we ended up in Atlanta Georgia in a couple of- in the home of this amazing couple that let us through what we now call an encounter retreat. It was uh 3 days of just personal ministry that God used to set her free and literally in three days, I literally came home and brand new wife. She was healed, she was delivered, she was a new creation in Christ and uh, it was amazing. 

 

Dr. Ray: 3 days after 10 years.

 

Pastor Keith: Yep.

 

Dr. Ray: Suicidal depression; and uh, I just say that with awe because I-I’ve been there. I’ve had suicidal depression. And in three days through this encounter…

 

Pastor Keith: Yep.

 

Dr. Ray: You call it an encounter…

 

Pastor Keith: Yeah, we call it an encounter, that’s what we call it.

 

Dr. Ray; Three days of an encounter with God and being ministered to, she gets free.

 

Pastor Keith: Absolutely. Absolute- it was amazing. We literally- we joke about it now but it was 100% true- When we came home we, we fought like cats and dogs for six months, uh, because we literally had to learn how to live together because she was a new woman. I mean it was it was for 10 years she lived in this dark cloud of depression and now she was alive, uh and she, she came out of the darkness into the light and so we literally had to learn how to live together because our lives were totally different.

 

Dr. Ray: So now she was alive, she got feisty.

 

Pastor Keith: She got feisty. Now she had and opinion, idea and view, so it was uh…it was, uh, it was amazing. I mean she, she tells the story of coming home and driving down, uh, driving down our road and she said literally houses that she had drove by for 10 years, uh, she said it was like she, she saw things she’d never seen. The sky was really never so blue, the grass was never so green it’s ah, it’s- kind as crazy as that sounds- but literally, her world was changed and as a result of that, we began doing what we now call encounter retreats so we do those twice a year and we open those up to whosoever will can come. We've had over 1,600 people. And now about 15 years of doing encounters that have been changed and transformed and it's just amazing what God can do, uh, through His gospel. 

 

Dr. Ray: Just, just for clarity, tell our audience exactly what an encounter is. I know, I know basically uh, the people are going to the encounter will come to the church; you actually have dormitories at the church.

 

Pastor Keith: We do. We have a place to house people, feed people.

 

Dr. Ray: So they come in on Friday. 

 

Pastor Keith: Yeah

 

Dr. Ray: And it goes through Saturday.

 

Pastor Keith: Yep. Yeah we wrap up actually Sunday morning so the last session…

 

Dr. Ray: Sunday morning. So, what’s that like?

 

Pastor Keith: So, we, we kinda say it like this. An encounter is an opportunity to allow God to deal with the junk in the trunk. You know we say everybody's got junk in the trunk. Everybody has hurts and pains and trauma from their past and unfortunately, shapes our lives. And so when you deal with the junk in the trunk it allows you to step into the future and the hope that God has for you and that's really what happens during and encounter weekend. Uh, we minister in a lot of areas and things we call ungodly beliefs to helping people identify the lies that we believe about ourselves or about others or even about God. We deal with sexual purity, one of the biggest open doors is, is that the enemy comes in, uh, many times through the choices and decisions, soul ties around our lives that we deal with. We deal with inner healing and dealing with the hurts that we had, whether that be a father wound or a mother wound or it be that you went through a traumatic divorce, whatever's happened in your life that your heart has been wounded- I’ll never forget Kelly made this statement one time. She said “I wish I had a broken arm because at least people could see my pain”. Because she was so wounded on the inside because of the trauma and abuse, she just said I wish I had a broken arm so people could see my pain. 

 

Dr. Ray: Wow.

 

Pastor Keith: And so we minister on inner healing it and it's just amazing to see God begin to bring life to people. It all revolves around the finished work of Jesus; everything that we do comes back to Jesus Christ being the answer and the solution and and the remedy for, for our hurts and our pain.

 

Dr. Ray: I want to say this: For years I’ve traveled around…some of the churches that you're connected to and I kept hearing this term, “Man I just went through an encounter. I just went through and encounter”. I’m thinking w-what’s an encounter? “It just changed my marriage, it just changed my life, is set me free”, and I heard that, you know, for years and I actually, sometimes you'd have me up and I come in on the tail end of an counter and do a prophetic teaching and, sorry, ministering prophectically to the people who came out of the counter but as time’s gone on I realize- I think I realize now more than ever, how powerful and how life changing these encounters are. And your book’s going to talk about that and your church is about that.

 

Pastor Keith: Absolutely, yes. So the heart of the book is, is number one I really want to just give an invitation to people. I want invite people who listen to this podcast. They can go to our website, libertychurchcampuses.com and they can they can uh, they can register for our next encounter that’s going to be coming up in, in the uh, February. I believe the end of the, first of the year.

 

Dr. Ray: Say the website again.

 

Pastor Keith: It’s libertychurchcampuses.com and you can go there and there’s an encounter tab you can register, and I believe the last weekend in February will be our next encounter. And we love how people come. So the book is really about this number one I want invite people to experience what we've experienced. You know how when you experience God in an amazing way that changes your life you want everybody to experience it. And then the other part of the book is really just to teach some of those basic truths, you know, that transformed our lives, and so I share a little of our story, a lot of our testimony, a lot of truth from scripture just to really empower people to walk in free.

 

Dr. Ray: That’s, that’s so amazing; and folks, I have been up in this area. Arab is a beautiful area. There's mountains around there, there’s a lake close to there called Lake Guntersville. Beautiful area, some of the friendliest people on the planet. It's a great place to go to and you have housing at the church.

 

Pastor Keith: We have housing at the church.

 

Dr. Ray: Or you could find an outside place to stay if you want but there is, ‘cause there's this lake and there’s lodges on the lake. It's just, it’s a beautiful area to go to.

 

Pastor Keith: Yeah, it is a beautiful area, it is. 

 

Dr. Ray: But you can, you have a dormitory, uh, upstairs.

 

Pastor Keith: Upstairs, that’s exactly right. We can house fifty people, and then of course we do have, there’s hotels in different places around us. And it is a beautiful place. Sits over about 15 minutes from Lake Guntersville for all the the bass fisherman out there that are listening. Bassmasters Fish has a tournament, HydroFest comes through there, a lot of great things. It’s just a beautiful place to be; and God, God's glory is really there. We, we beleive that. 

 

Dr. Ray: You know I've kind of fished a little bit. Actually Lake Guntersvill is know as the best bass fishing lake in the world, over nine hundred miles of shoreline.

 

Pastor Keith: Yeah, usually somebody’s-

 

Dr. Ray: Uh, but the encounter to get free…

 

Pastor Keith: Yeah. 

 

Dr. Ray: We, we, we’ve been talking about things that, that, things in our life that opened up door ways, that open up, that give invitation for demonic oppression and for demons and for the devil to come in. And then you can close those doorways and you can, you can restore your soul and literally get changed.

 

Pastor Keith: Absolutely.

 

Dr. Ray: And, in a day and a half. Friday night, all day Saturday, and of course Sunday morning...

 

Pastor Keith: Sunday morning.

 

Dr. Ray: ...at church and church is amazing. You wrap up at church. But it changes your life. And I’ve often said this: you look back at your past, you go, “well, you know I don’t want to look back at my past”. But what I’ve said for years is: there’s things from your past that are in your present that are hindering your future. 

 

Pastor Keith: Absolutely.

 

Dr. Ray: There's, there's memories, there's beliefs, there's ungodly beliefs, there’s unforgivness, there’s curses, there’s schemes, there’s all kinds of stuff and I’ve talked a lot about schemes and they're in your past but they're still affecting your present…

 

Pastor Keith: Absolutely.

 

Dr. Ray…which is stopping your future.

 

Pastor Keith: Yep. One of my favorite quotes is a Joyce Meyer quote. She said “Anything buried alive never dies.” And what happens is we have become experts in burying our hurt and our pain and and we, we buried it, we've ignored it and leave act like it doesn't exist but the reality is just like you said what's from our past is still living in our present and it's affecting our future. And one of the things we’ll deal with in that encounter is we do what we call a five open doors, just like you said. Five open doors, five access points where Satan comes in to steal, kill and destroy and as you identify, one of those is unforgiveness.

 

 And we talked just a little bit this morning about the power of unforgiveness how unforgiveness really is an open door. I believe one of the biggest open doors in lives of Christians keeping them in bondage like you said under the oppression of the enemy, uh, where they're not walking in freedom and for Kelly, unforgiveness was the root of her depression and anxiety. It was unforgiveness toward the individual that abused her. I remember one time she said “I want everybody in the world to get saved and come to Christ except for that person; they deserve to go to hell” and uh, that's a pretty good indicator where your heart is and, and here's a statement; I’ll just share that I think this, this may be worth just; anything I’ve said, that I think this will be the Golden Nugget. One of the things that Kelly and I recognized as she battled through that is that her 10 year battle of severe depression was not rooted in the abuse and trauma that she suffered. The 10-year battle of severe depression was rooted in the unforgiveness that she held in her heart. She wasn't depressed because she'd been abused, she was depressed because unforgiveness and bitterness had opened the door for the enemy to torment her mind and drive her into a dark, dark place.

 

Dr. Ray: So, to me- we said- we were talking about unforgiveness this morning

 

Pastor Keith: Yeah.

 

Dr. Ray: that, that's a very powerful statement what you just said. I hope you guys are listening to this. So unforgiveness; and when you forgive,

 

Pastor Keith: Right.

 

Dr. Ray: it's not saying okay, what you did is okay…

 

Pastor Keith: Absolutely not.

 

Dr. Ray: It’s not okay.

 

Pastor Keith: It’s not okay.

 

Dr. Ray: But it means I'm letting you go. 

 

Pastor Keith: Absolutely. 

 

Dr. Ray: I'm breaking the tie. I'm not going to hold it against you anymore, I’m gonna let God handle it.

 

Pastor Keith: Absolutely.

 

Dr. Ray: So, I’d break the tie because one thing that I’ve counseled for years is when you have unforgiveness, you're still linked to that person.

 

Pastor Keith: Absolutely.

Dr. Ray: You are bound to that person. So forgiveness is not about setting them free, it’s about setting you free.

 

Pastor Keith: Absolutely. That's exactly what we say. We teach that principle. We actually teach three levels of forgiveness and, and the thing that, the heart behind it is when I forgive somebody, forgiveness doesn't free them. They’re still accountable to God. The person that abused Kelly is one day going to give an account to, to God for the choices and decisions that he made. 

 

Dr. Ray: Right.

 

Pastor Keith: But forgiveness frees me. When I forgive somebody that hurt me, I forgive somebody that abused me, all the sudden I’m freeing myself from that sin, that hurt and that trauma so I can actually begin to be healed and receive what God has for me; and part of our encounter retreat is we really do work through a lot of forgiveness. Uh, we teach what we call the 5 R's of ministry and we help people work through, basically 5 simple things that we use all weekend and one of them is we have to learn how release or forgive ourselves, right? We talked about that little bit this morning. It's not enough for us just to forgive others. Many times the, the person we hold in bondage is ourself.

 

Dr. Ray: Yeah.

 

Pastor Keith: And so we have to learn how to not only forgive others but forgive ourselves. ‘Cause when I have unforgiveness in my heart, whether it’s toward another person or even towards myself, that unforgiveness literally hinders me from receiving the word that God wants to do in my life.

 

Dr. Ray: Yeah.

 

Pastor Keith: and it opens the door for the devil to come in and he begins to beat me up, right? That unforgiveness becomes that open door through which Satan begins to bombard my heart and my mind with anxiety and worry and fear and condemnation and guilt and shame and that dark cloud of oppression begins to well up over us. 

 

Dr. Ray: Yeah, for me; and uh, that’s that’s powerful stuff Pastor, thank you. For me, when I'm, when I have had unforgive- and we've all had some unforgiveness in our-. When I’ve had unforgiveness it’s like I want to see that person punished. 

 

Pastor Keith: Yep.

 

Dr. Ray: As a matter of fact, I’d like, I wanna punish them. I, I’m not gonna talk to them I gonna make sure that you're punished and then all of a sudden, I'm carrying that-

 

Pastor Keith: Yup.

 

Dr. Ray: I'm carrying that poison.

 

Pastor Keith: Yep.

 

Dr. Ray: I'm drinking their poison.

 

Pastor Keith: Absolutely.

 

Dr. Ray: And I’ve got that poison in me.

 

Pastor Keith: Yep.

 

Dr. Ray: And then I’m also, again, I'm tied- I’m bound to that person. So when I make a choice; it’s, it’s not a feeling folks, it’s a choice.

 

Pastor Keith: Absolutely.

 

Dr. Ray: Now I make a choice and say “Lord help me. In the name of Jesus Christ, I forgive”

 

Pastor Keith: Yep.

 

Dr. Ray: You know, I forgive and you put in the person and all of a sudden, I let it go, you know. And I'm not I'm not the judge and jury over this person anymore…

 

Pastor Keith: That’s right.

 

Dr. Ray: and all of a sudden I've got a release.

 

Pastor Keith: Amen.

 

Dr. Ray: And I’m free.

 

Pastor Keith: Amen.

 

Dr. Ray: And God deals with them, and I'm, I'm over it.

 

Pastor Keith: Amen.

 

Dr. Ray: And I'm free. 

 

Pastor Keith: Yep. That's, that's the first level of forgiveness is I got to forgive not by feeling ‘cause forgiveness is not a feeling. We forgive by faith.

 

Dr. Ray: Yeah.

 

Pastor Keith: And you know the bible says that, that God in Christ forgave us.

 

Dr. Ray: Yeah.

 

Pastor Keith: And so we just use this little phrase” “I forgive others because God forgave me”. Really is that simple. I forgive others because God forgave me and I choose to forgive-

 

Dr. Ray: Right, Jesus warned, Jesus told us to do that.

 

Pastor Keith: Uh, He absolutely told us to do that and He tells the story of the, the uh, the, the manager or the steward who uh, he forgives the great debt then the guy goes and, and collects debt. Jesus says, “and the man was turned over to the tormentors”, and then he says this “and so shall my heavenly father do to you if you do not forgive from your heart” and that's really- it's not that God is tormenting us but that unforgiveness opens that door to every tormenting spirit of the enemy and it begins to come in and before you know it we find ourselves in these places where we're living in bondage. You know, I saw Kelly from suicidal thoughts to panic attacks, to anxiety, to social anxiety, uh, I mean it was… for six months she would come to church and sit in the balcony with our sound team because she couldn't; the anxiety of just being in a group of people was more than she could handle, uh, and just seeing all those things she had to work through, uh, and seeing God in literally 3 days set her free and heal her and deliver that. And then there's a process, right? A process of now I got to walk out my freedom…

 

Dr. Ray: … yeah you gotta walk out what you, your freedom…

 

Pastor Keith: …and, exactly right…And we, we do that also. We have a follow up process where we actually help people walk out that freedom and, um, and it's just amazing.

 

Dr. Ray: But your book, the name of your book again you're writing?

 

Pastor Keith: It’s Overcoming Anxiety and Depression.

 

Dr. Ray: It’s a simple title, it's going to kind of walk through all this process and that's, and uh, you have an expected date for finishing the book?

 

Pastor Keith: It will probably be- my goal is a spring of the year next year so I'm in the process, I’ve got another book that’s hopefully going to be released at the first of the year and this one will be my next one.

 

Dr. Ray: And you will be able to get this on Amazon…

 

Pastor Keith: So you’ll be able to, yep, they’ll be able to get it on Amazon. It will be available on Amazon and it will be available through e-book also so uh, it will, it will be out there.

 

Dr. Ray: Another thing that we brought up this morning too, and thank you for the e-book, uh, thank you, that is, forgiving yourself. You know, because what I've seen a lot of Christians do is that they get where they’re okay with forgiving others but they hold this shame, condemnation, uh, they have an internal shame, internal condemnation… I’ve seen some Christians that even have a self-hatred…

 

Pastor Keith: Absolutely.

 

Dr. Ray:.. towards themselves that is hurting them. It’s, it’s like “well I can forgive you but I can't ever forgive myself for how I reacted to you”. And I've even noticed people have suffered alcoholism and drug addiction. It’s like okay well I've forgiven all these people that hurt me but I can't forgive myself for the things I did and that's just as deadly. Not being able to forgive yourself. 

 

Pastor Keith: Yeah, yeah. it may actually be more deadly because, uh, than the unforgiveness that we have in our hearts towards others, uh, because it ends up being this inner poison that we drink every single day of our life and what happens is if I have unforgiveness in my heart toward another person, uh, that definitely affects me. It opens the door to the enemy, uh, and it affects my relationships. But when I have unforgiveness in my heart toward me, that affects every relationship because now that poison that I hold in my heart is, is spewed out really, unfortunately, on the people around me that I love the most. And it comes out right? And then it creates, it creates a vicious cycle because I have this self hatred in my heart and then I end up saying and doing things that I really don't want to do to the people that I love and care about. I end up hurting people whether that's through addiction or through violence or just through anger and outbursts and then it just creates more shame and more guilt and it really creates a vicious cycle.

 

Dr. Ray: So if we don't deal with the junk in the trunk…

 

Pastor Keith: Absolutely.

 

Dr. Ray: Which is, what happens is- this has been my experience as a counselor- this stuff your holding inside, and especially men, we think, you know, we got it under control.

 

Pastor Keith: Yeah.

 

Dr. Ray: There’s an old expression, you know, my dad used to say “so you gotta suck it up, boy. Suck it up. Hold it in, hold it in.” Well, you’re holding it in but it's manifesting in your, your actions.

 

Pastor Keith: Absolutely.

 

Dr. Ray: You know, you’re not talking about it, you're not dealing with it but your behavior’s showing it towards other people, toward, and you're sabotaging your life…

 

Pastor Keith: Absolutely.

 

Dr. Ray: …because you've never really dealt with whatever is going on. The unforgiveness that’s in your heart, the self hatred, self rejection, carrying condemnation and shame, everything God doesn't want you to do and so many times you set all these other people free in your life but you never set yourself free and there and then you got this stuff all locked up and nobody really knows but they do know because your behavior is manifesting. 

 

Pastor Keith: Absolutely.

 

Dr. Ray: And it’s manifesting through your behavior with unreasonable reactions and actions towards other people.

 

Pastor Keith: Yep. Jesus said “Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.”

 

Dr. Ray: Hey, there you go.

 

Pastor Keith: and, and the greatest commandment is love God, right? With all our heart, mind, soul and body and the second is to love your neighbor as yourself and if I don't love myself I might have a hard time loving my neighbor, uh, and if my heart is full of shame and guilt and condemnation because of unforgiveness toward myself, that spews out. And it does, it ends up affecting the people, really that we love the most.

 

Dr. Ray: Yep.

 

Pastor Keith: And uh, and and it's so tragic to see that happen because it does create that vicious cycle that drives many people deeper and deeper. The more I fail, the more I feel like a failure, the more I uh, I, I, I react out of anger or frustration, the more I feel that condemnation and it really does drive us into a dark hole.

 

Dr. Ray: It feeds it.

 

Pastor Keith: It feeds it.

 

Dr. Ray: It’s, it’s a self…

 

Pastor Keit: Yeah, we call the cycle of death.

 

Dr. Ray: Oh, cycle of death. Wow. Wow.

 

Pastor Keith: And it really does, it really does really does work that way in our lives.

 

Dr. Ray: So you have the unforgiveness, the unforgiveness is creating these actions and these actions are just re-cycling and your spiraling, you’re just, you’re in a vicious circle.

 

Pastor Keith: Exactly right.

 

Dr. Ray: You’re creating more shame and condemnation.

 

Pastor Keith: More shame and more condemnation and it drives you deeper and deeper and uh, and it hurts more and more people. You end up being isolated and separated, uh, and it really is detrimental to our, to our health and our spiritual ability and, you know God’s called us to be a light in the darkness and to reach others and if I'm living with condemnation and guilt on the inside because of unforgiveness, uh, it, it limits me from not only enjoying God but being a light for Christ.

 

Dr. Ray: Amen. Amen. That’s good stuff. One thing that, that I teach is, you know, we’re taught to love unconditionally. You know, three types of love. I love you because,

 

Pastor Keith: Aha.

 

Dr. Ray: or I love you if,

 

Pastor Keith: Right.

 

Dr. Ray: or, I love you. No because, no if, I just love you. Well, sometimes with ourself what we do is, we love ourselves conditionally.

 

Pastor Keith: Yeah.

 

Dr. Ray: We love ourselves when were doing everything right and, and when we're doing everything good but then we start of hate ourselves whenever we fail and so I've, I’ve over the years I just- a lot of people have trouble loving themselves unconditionally. They love themselves conditionally. Now you can love you child unconditionally no matter what your child does. You got a son or daughter, no matter- you got two daughters. No matter what you’re daughters do, Jessica or Samantha,

 

Pastor Keith: Right.

 

Dr. Ray: Whatever they do, I don't care what they do, you’re still going to love them no matter what.

 

Pastor Keith: Absolutely, yep.

 

Dr. Ray: But when it comes to ourself, no I'm, I’m, I love based on performance and based on conditions. 

 

Pastor Keith: Yep. 

 

Dr. Ray: And we gotta learn to let that go too.

 

Pastor Kieth: We definitely have to learn to let that go. Again all those things become a trap, right? They become a cycle of death that puts us in the spiral that really separates us from the very thing- what’s crazy it really separates us from what we want. We, you know, we want to love people, we want to be loved and we want to show that love but, we, uh, we get caught in that trap and so- the good news of the gospel, why I’m even here today and why our lives are uh, why we’re able to sit here and talk about this is because we’ve experienced the power of God and the good news of the gospel that, and uh, Jesus can break that cycle. We, we say He can take the cycle of death and with a couple, uh, Spirit-filled, intelligent decisions you can turn it into a cycle of life that will begin to bless you and uh, do amazing things in your life.

 

Dr. Ray: You know, that, that is amazing and I wann tell you listeners, you know, this whole podcast is, is not here just to promote you going to Arab Alabama, but I kinda wish you would, but I will tell you this: Every person I've ever met and I’ve met a lot of people who have been through these encounters, they call it an encounter, it’s a Friday, Saturday and Sunday morning deal, their lives are changed.

 

Pastor Keith: Absolutely.

 

Dr. Ray: They're completely different people. I mean, you see a person going in one way coming out a different way. And also it talks to you about biblical principals and what the Lord can do and I'm a lot- I don’t know if I was as bad as Kelly, but I had suicidal thoughts. I had blackness, I had depression the time I was sixteen till I was fourty four years old. And uh, I was, I was strong enough to function most of the time but underneath It all I felt dead and unaligned and everything else and I know with me, it was the baptism of the Holy Spirit now I finally got baptized in the Holy Spirit…

 

Pastor Keith: umhm.

 

Dr. Ray: …started learning some things and also was very blessed to find some really great Christian counselors and a lot of prayer, a lot of deliverance and a lot of learning. You know, I was able to get free but I have a heart. Let me tell you something, depression and anxiety is, it, it’s, to me it's worse than cancer it is a it’s, it can be a death sentance. But, your book’s going to show people. It’s going to show free…

 

Pastor Keith: it’s going to show…

 

Dr. Ray: And maybe you’re not depressed but you’ve got other issues…

 

Pastor Keith: Absolutely, yeah.

 

Dr. Ray: …in your life that you have stuff from your past that’s in your present that’s stopping your future. 

 

Pastor Keith: Adn, and that’s the heart behind the book is to really share those transformational truths to equip people and empower people to walk in Freedom, uh, ‘cause here's what I love: hurt people hurt people which is sad, that grieves our heart but here’s what I know to be true: free people free people.

 

Dr. Ray: Ooh.

 

Pastor Keith: When you get set free from the hurst and pains in your past, you deal with the junk in the trunk, all the sudden free people free people. And every person that reads my book and finds freedom is going to bring freedom to other people which is what excites me.

 

Dr. Ray: Yeah.

 

Pastor Keith: That's what, that's what stirs me up, gets me out of bed like you everyday Dr. Ray because we get to make a difference in people's lives who can make a difference in other people's lives and that's, that's the power of the kingdom of God and what Jesus really came to do. 

 

Dr. Ray: Yeah, and I’m, yeah. I’m, I'm like you I love to teach, I’ve, I’ve taught counseling for years but I do like this, you know it's just interesting, you're talking about this. I just finished a course call Counseling Personality Disorders.

 

Pastor Keith: Yeah.

 

Dr. Ray: So we're talking about, O, you know, OCD and Borderline Personality Disorder, Narcissism and I’m doing all this teaching of all the medical terms and all the scientific explanation…

 

Pastor Keith: Aha.

 

Dr. Ray: …and all the uh, the way they say you get free and how you treat this and it still, when you get to the bottom line, it's going to be the power of the Holy Spirit…

 

Pastor Keith: Absolutely.

 

Dr. Ray: …the Name and the power and the blood of Jesus Christ, the finished work on the cross is really the only thing that’s going to set you free. 

 

Pastor Keith: That’s the only thing.

 

Dr. Ray: You can call it whatever you want but the only thing that’s going to set you free is the finished work of Jesus Christ, what he's done for you on the cross.

 

Pastor Keith: Amen.

 

Dr. Ray: Through the power of the Holy Spirit.

 

Pastor Keith: Yeah.

 

Dr. Ray: Ooh, let’s preach it. 

 

Pastor Keith: That’s some good stuff. We say it like this, Dr. Ray, we say that the world only has painkillers but Jesus offers total healing. 

 

Dr. Ray: Yeah.

 

Pastor Keith: And, and that’s what the world- you, you go to the world and I’m thankful. The, the Lord used doctors and He used counselors and He used psychiatrists…

 

Dr. Ray: Yeah, He does.

 

Pastor Keith: …and, and He used them and used them in Kelly’s life, they sustained her; but God healed her. And He brought her out…

 

Dr. Ray: They sustained her.

 

Pastor Keith: They sustained her but God healed her. I mean, God used the doctors, the medicine, the counseling, the psychiatry, all those things God used to sustain her. The, the Lord gave me this scripture out of proverbs: “In a multitude of counselors there is safety.” And God used those counselors and those doctors to create a safety net for Kelly till she could come to place a faith or she could receive the healing that God had for her. And, and it changed her life, it changed my life and, uh changed our family and our church and we are who we are today because of the greatness and goodness of God and so I'm so thankful just to be here with you today sir.

 

Dr. Ray: I, I know this, I’m thankful too, we’re ready to close, and uh, I just remember some of  the first times that I got to go up to your church and these guys would come up and greet me and hug me and, you know, and just, you’d just see the love of God all over this guy's face, you know. It’d be a young man and I get to the door of the church and he’d say “Hey, are you, you’re Ray Self. Hey, give me a hug, give me a hug”. It turns out this guy was a drug addict for years.

 

Pastor Keith: Hahaha, yep.

 

Dr. Ray: For years he was a drug addict on the street.

 

Pastor Keith: He was a drug dealer probably.

 

Dr. Ray: A drug dealer, probably a drug dealer and now I’m looking at this teddy bear with the love of God all over their face and giving me a hug and uh, uh, I meet them all over the church and they’re all free, loving God and perfectly normal, healthy, Holy Spirit - filled…

 

Pastor Keith: Amen, that’s right.

 

Dr. Ray: …warriors for Christ, all over the church.

 

Pastor Keith: All over the church. Yeah, I mean…

 

Dr. Ray: You were a drug addict?

 

Both: Laugh.

 

Pastor Keith: Yeah, yeah, it, it’s amazing to see that the transformation uh, as you said, you know, salvation covers a big part of what we do and, and part of our success there is, is that we you know, create an atmosphere for people to come in and experience God, the power of the Holy Spirit, the love Jesus and so it is amazing what God can do.

 

Dr. Ray: Okay folks so this is Pastor Keith Hodges, he's the lead pastor of Liberty Church, Arab, Alabama and Holly Pond, Alabama and the website again is…

 

Pastor Keith: Is uh, libertychurchcampuses.com and you can find me on Facebook, I have a, a page called P K & K. Pastor Keith and Kelly, P K & K and uh, we share uh, truths on life, leadership and legacy and really just desire to help people, to equip people to serve God.

 

Dr. Ray: S-so if you want to come to the encounter you go to the website.

 

Pastor Keith: Absolutely. Click on the encounter tab and we'll get you connected and hooked up. 

 

Dr. Ray: Alright, one more time, the website?

 

Pastor Keith: It is libertychurchcampuses.com. 

 

Dr. Ray: libertychurchcampuses.com. Well that’s great. Let’s close in prayer.

 

Pastor Keith: Yes.

 

Dr. Ray: You wann pray for us?

 

Pastor Keith: I would be honored. So Father, I thank you today for the freedom and the grace of your son Jesus. I thank for every person listening today to this podcast. And I pray for those that may be battling with anxiety and depression. I pray for the grace of God and for the Spirit of God to minister to them. Lord I thank you right now for bringing light into the darkness and I thank you for the seed and the spirit of hope that fills our heart. You are the God of all hope and so Lord I just declare right now that the hope of God would abound in their hearts. I thank you for breaking every chain. I think you for healing every hurt and I thank you for drawing us unto yourself. So Lord, today we honor you, we bless you and we worship you, Lord, as the one who is and was and forever shall be. And we asked it all today in Jesus Name. Amen.

 

Dr. Ray: Amen. Thank you so much, Pastor Keith Hodges. 

Pastor Keith: I receive that.

 

Dr. Ray: Alright, love you.

 

Pastor Keith: Love you.

 

Dr. Ray: I can’t say Roll Tide though, I haven’t got, I haven’t got there yet.

 

[Outro plays]

 

Dr. Ray: Hey this is Dr. Ray again. Thank you so much for listening. I hope you enjoyed today’s show and maybe you’ll consider going up to Arab Alabama to one of those weekend encounters that Pastor Keith was talking about; especially if you're suffering from depression, anxiety, addictions, alcoholism, drug addiction. Um, they, they do powerful work up there. Also remember, we're, in our website, our podcast website, icmcollege.org/selftalk, we have all kinds of stuff there. We have my books are on there. Also we have three different courses that you can purchase for a $35 donation. These are college-level courses. The course we’re promoting this month is called School of the Spirit which is all about the Holy Spirit and how to move and flow prophetically and how to grow and be imparted in prophetic and how to mature in a prophetic. It's a six Lesson course. It's a $225 course that you can get for a $35 donation which helps us continue this show, so consider doing that. Check out my books. You know, I really appreciate you listening to Self Talk with Dr Ray Self. All I want to do is just glorify Jesus and set captives free, and um, give you some real answers so thank you for listening and I just pray God's blessing and favor on you and your family. See you later. See you next week.