Rejected, Cursed, and Abused to Deliverance and Freedom

Hey, folks, this is Dr. Ray here. Man, that we have a good show today. This is a fantastic show. I'm interviewing Apostle Norma Hawkins out of Dallas, Texas. Her story, if you can grasp it, is so incredible – what she went through as a little girl, the abuse, the rejection, abandonment, the curses, everything no child should ever have to go through. But God is our redeemer and now, this is an incredible story of redemption. Instead of curses, blessings, instead of captivity, freedom. You're going to really like this show. Again, this show is sponsored by my main ministry, International College of Ministry. We are enrolling right now at icmcollege.org. God bless you, thank you for listening to the show. Be sure and subscribe, give us a review, share this, help us get the message out. God bless you.

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Dr. Ray: Hello, welcome to Self Talk. I'm your host, me, Dr. Ray Self. Very, very glad you're with us today, and I'm excited, I have a very special guest with us today: Apostle Norma– Norma Hawkins, out of Dallas Texas, amen. Apostle Norma, I'm so glad you're with us. So thank you for being here. 

Apostle Norma: Thank you. 

Dr. Ray: All right, um, and your ministry is Dallas Freedom Outpost and, and the Rose of Faith. And the reason, you know, I, I wanted you on our show is we had a divine encounter, I believe, in the mighty metropolis of Troy Missouri a few weeks ago. 

Apostle Norma: Yes. 

Dr. Ray: Um, I got to listen to you and some of your story and I was just…I just never heard anything like it before. It was just amazing. Um, you know, a story of um, of rejection and betrayal and being completely cursed and abused and then redeemed, delivered and set free. I mean, it's just an amazing, an amazing story. And I just think that you are an amazing woman of God and I'm, I'm very blessed to have you today on the show, and uh, I think our, our listeners are, are in for a treat. I know when um, I was up in Missouri with you I was just listening to some of your story, I said– and then I think we talked on the phone a little bit. I was going, oh my goodness gracious, wow. You know, we all have a testimony but not many testimonies are wow. 

Apostle Norma: Yeah.

Dr. Ray: So um, again, you go by Apostle Norma and uh, appreciate that– appreciate you taking time for us. So, you were telling me about your childhood and, you know, we all have, we're all raised and we all have a history and our history affects us. To say that we're not affected by our history is just ridiculous. We, we do get affected by history. But you're, you're growing up and your childhood was very uh, extremely tough. Tell us just a little bit about, about it and what happened to you. 

Apostle Norma: I was born and raised in the Midwest, um, in a little small town, uh, called Louisiana, Missouri, born and raised in the family. And um, I, you know when you're inside of a picture, you don't see all the stuff that's going on inside the picture. Once you get outta the picture, you’re able to look at it from the outside, you really look at the picture and say, “Oh, wow, there's a whole lot of stuff going on that picture I didn't recognize.” And so I was taught to believe that, you know, I was raised in, in such a great family. But uh, my mom had me, uh, at, at…she got pregnant with me at 15, she had me at 16 on November uh, 11th is my birthday, and she turned 16 on November 16th, um, and so she was a child herself. So immediately, soon as she had me she uh, gave me to my grandparents, and my grandparents, uh, raised me so therefore there's rejection immediately from the womb, being rejected. 

Dr. Ray: But..so that opens…

Apostle Norma: …and my parents… 

Dr. Ray: Excuse me, that opens up a door right there, for the listeners. 

Apostle Norma: Yes. 

Dr. Ray: I mean, you know, there's all…it opens up the doorway for the spirit of rejection right there. To be, to be…

Apostle Norma: Yes. 

Dr. Ray: …rejected by your mom and given to somebody else to raise. Anyway, I just want to throw that in. Go ahead, excuse me. 

Apostle Norma: You're, you're, and you're right. And then uh, being raised by my grandparents who had children that were either the same age as I was or younger because my grandmother was still having children with her, her daughters are having children and so uh, all my life, the majority of my life my grandparents raised me until my mom started having other children then she came - about 12 years old - she came and uh, and, and had me come back. And it's another thing that also we talk about curses and stuff that I fought was um, being as a 12-year-old being put into a uh, an adult or a mother's position because I became my siblings' parent and um, because my mom was gone all the time, I told– and she was an alcoholic and she was gone, we never knew when she was coming home. And so then I was thrown into a parent’s role at 12 years old to, to take care of my siblings, make sure they were okay and um, my mom was such a meek humble woman but when she got…she got to drinking, she turned into a belligerent, abusive, verbal and physical abusive person. And so as I was saying, she would always say to me, uh, you ain't nothing, you didn't come from nothing, you ain't never going to be nothing. And even at 13 years old, I would turn my back to her and I didn't let her hear me say it but I would turn my back to her and say, “I'm gonna be somebody, I'm gonna be somebody.” I didn't know that God had a plan for me, a plan for my life but I knew…I kept saying I'mma be somebody and uh, uh… 

Dr. Ray: So those are… 

Apostle Norma: …so she… 

Dr. Ray: …those are word curses, I mean, those– and parents have to be careful, those are word curses. Um, life and death’s in the power of the tongue and so your mom was speaking curses over you but something in you, probably the Lord, was not going to receive that. 

Apostle Norma: Right, right, hahaha, yeah. And but– even, but those words, like you said, those word curses, no matter what I tried as I progressed and went on to life, those words were stuck to me like tar. They stuck to me like glue. And I fought them all the time. No matter what I'd accomplished or I was trying to accomplish, those words just kept, which was the spirit, the curs,e the spirit just kept coming in my face. And so I um, I um, I thank God that as I got older, and you look at the patterns of, of, uh, what your parents do…my mom being an alcoholic, sometimes she…I told you about it, she would be gone and I had siblings, I had a brother, a sister, a brother that was blind, and then another sister. And so my mom would be gone sometime, she’d be going to get on the drunken binge all day and be gone for like a week or so, we wouldn't have any food…

Dr. Ray: A week? 

Apostle Norma: …in her house. Yeah, yeah. 

Dr. Ray: So you'd be left alone as a 12-year-old girl for a week with younger children? 

Apostle Norma: With my siblings, yes. 

Dr. Ray: And no…no, provision? 

Apostle Norma: No provision. And I was the oldest. 

Dr. Ray: Wow. 

Apostle Norma: Yeah…yeah. I'm the oldest. And um…and so, I would grab– we lived in where we could walk– my grandparents lived like straight up probably about four blocks because we could stand in our door where we lived at and see their house. And we walk up and I would say, you know, “I haven't seen Mama for a week. Uh, she's been gone. My brother and sister, you know, they're hungry, they don't have anything to eat.” And my grandmother would be the one to say, “Well, you know, she needs to stay home with her kids and we don't have any extra food to uh, feed uh, her kids,” you know, my mom's name is Joanne, “to feed Joanne's kids.” And so I would stand as a 13-year-old and I would tell my grandmother, I said, “Well, if you don't…you don't have to give me anything, just feed my brother and my sister,” because I'm eight years older than them. So I'm 12, they're small kids, and, and I'd say, “Just give– just give me something to feed them,” you know. And uh, sometimes she would, sometimes she wouldn't. But again, even in that God had a plan that was a man that my mom used to date and she didn't date him anymore but he had, he had one arm and he, he worked at the hospital in our hometown, and he, you know, didn't have any children so he took me on as his daughter when I was uh, young, uh, you know, young girl. And so I would call him and say uh, you know, uncle– his name was Johnny, I'd say, “Uncle Johnny, mom hasn't been home for a week and my brother and sister, they crying, we don't have anything to eat,” and you know, and so he would say, “Okay, I'mma send a cab to get you,” and we had a Kroger store in our hometown, he said, “I'mma send a cab to get you and he'll come pick you up. And I gave him some money for you to go shopping in the Kroger to get y'all some food and then he'll take you back home,” and that– that's what would happen. He would come pick me up, take me to the store, I'd go shopping for me and my siblings, and then we would, you know, I'd come back home and uh, uh, you know, feed ‘em and make sure that we had something to eat. 

Dr. Ray: And so…but you're only 12, 13 years old when this is happening? 

Apostle Norma: Yes. 

Dr. Ray: Goodness. See, no child, no child should have to do that. Oh my goodness, wow. And so you were taking care of your younger siblings, sometimes you go a week without groceries or seeing your mother. Some– your grandparents who lived down the street, sometimes would completely reject you. In other words, they'd say no, this is– your mom should take care of you, leave, leave us alone. She would– they wouldn't even give you anything. 

Apostle Norma: Right, right.

Dr. Ray: That's just unbelievable. Unbelievable. 

Apostle Norma: It's true. But, but Dr. Self, I was taught to believe though, and with our family, that this was– we were such a great family, you know, and we were taught to believe that this, you know, all– we’re– they, they had a certain last name, uh, that was, the last name was Pearl, p e a r l, and so I was taught to believe that the Pearl family was such a, a, a, a great family and…and we stuck together and whatever happened in the family stayed in the family, you know. And uh, and like I said, when I was in it, I believed that. But I begin to– I was always considered strange and different from all the other people in my family, you know, and, and for a couple of my aunts, said, “Oh, she's got an inferiority complex.” Well, at 12 or 13 I didn't know what inferiority complex was, you know…um…uh…

Dr. Ray: You know, crazy…

Apostle Norma: …and so…

Dr. Ray: cra– when you're raised in crazy or dysfunction…uh, if you grow up…

Apostle Norma: Yes.

Dr. Ray: …it seems normal because this is all you've known.

Apostle Norma: Yeah. 

Dr. Ray: As crazy and dysfunctional as it is, if that's all you've known as a child, it becomes normal for you. Wow. 

Apostle Norma: Yeah. 

Dr. Ray: Very, very sad. 

Apostle Norma: It does. It, it does. And um, and as I got older, my mom still was drinking and, and this was the thing that I tell you, when we talk about the glory of God, I know, Dr. Self, that God, God had His hand on me and protected me because my mom being an alcoholic, she would have - and I'm in my teens now so I'm probably like 16, 17 - she would have a, a man that she met, he'd be drunk too in her bedroom, in the bed sleeping, and she'd be gone off with another one, another man, but she would leave him in the house with us. But I thank God, I never…God, God protected me. I never was molested, never was raped. In the midst of all of that, God's hand was on my life. But– and she would do that you know, and, and, and this, this man - strange man - would be in her house and she'd be gone off with somebody else. 

Dr. Ray: Oh my goodness. Wow.

Apostle Norma: Yeah.

Dr. Ray: Wow. And so, you had so much darkness going on with you. Forced into a position, forced to be a parent at the age 12, which is very dysfunctional, very abusive. Um, your mother, um, you know, sleeping around and alcoholic and uh…that's bad enough. But then when she wa– she was mean, she was uh, calling you names, you said she kept speaking curses over you and sometimes was physically abusive to you.

Apostle Norma: Mhm. Yeah. That same thing constantly: you ain't nothing, you ain't never going to be nothing, you didn't come from nothing, and um, you know, it really, it really, just those curse words really stop your growth because you begin to– even though I would turn my back and say I'm gonna be somebody, those words still affected me. They affected decisions that I made, they affected uh, whether– how far I went in life at a young age, or even as I got older those words like I said, they stuck to me like glue, you know. And uh… 

Dr. Ray: You know, there, there is a, such thing as curses. I want our audience to know this. The words blessings and curses are mentioned over 430 times in the Bible. And so, a parent, by speaking these type of words, these are words that demons can grab a hold of and work with, amen. So, I mean, it's not just a bad saying that she's saying to you, it literally is a curse and that's– matter of fact, it's funny that we call them curse words because actually, they can be literally the source of a curse. 

Apostel Norma: And, and, you look at the way it was said, the three, the three things, because even she went back to the bloodline when she said, “You ain't nothing, you ain't gonna never be nothing,” here's bloodline, “you didn't come from nothing.” Bloodline. Haha. You see how we go back to, haha, to, to that? 

Dr. Ray: Yeah. Yeah, and that comes into some of the ministry you've been involved in, I know is involved in cleansing the bloodline, which is another great story, and…I want our audience to know that this is a…des– despite your horrible background and history, this story's got a great ending, hahaha. 

Apostle Norma: Yes it does. 

Dr. Ray: I mean, it does. So you're, you're raised in about as dysfunctional as you could possibly get, I mean abused, um, abused, you know, my… matter of fact, I usually say this: kids need three things, they need nurturing - you didn't have that - kids need to be taught - you didn't have that - and kids need provision. That’s the three main areas that all children need: nurturing, provision, and teaching, and you had none of that. 

Apostle Norma: None of that. None. 

Dr. Ray: Most families will just fail in one area but your family failed in all three areas. 

Apostle Norma: Yes, yes. All three. And it got to the point as…I got probably out of my teens and maybe my early 20s, I'd had my daughter, you know, I had a– my daughter out of, out of uh, wedlock which I mean this– all I saw was, you know, illegitimacy, illegitimate children and this what we thought was, was normal. But anyway, I had my daughter and I, I was at the point where I was– and I, and at the time, I recognize now it was the Spirit of God pulling me, but at that time I didn't know and my grandmother– I would wake up some days, Dr. Self, I would wake up and I would just cry and cry, and she - my grandmother - she'd be like, “Why you crying?” I said, “I don't know why I'm crying, I don't know why I'm crying.” Well, we had a little town not that far from us called Fulton Missouri and they have a place for people that they put there for mental, you know, mental uh, people that have mental issues. And so it was always a threat that my grandmother would always tell me, “Well, if you don't,” uh, uh, uh, uh, “straighten up and get it together, I'mma send you to Fulton,” you know, which was– we was all fearful of going to the, to the mental institution. “I'mma send you to Fulton,” because you know, I'm crying and, and didn't know why I was crying. But like you said, the, the, the great part of is after all of that I had been through, God sent a, a man to my hometown and he came through and I was suicidal. I was suicidal. I had my daughter, was raising her by myself, I wanted to get out of that, that my hometown area and, and I was just, just suicidal. I was like, I can't do this anymore. And then all those curses and them, them demons having a legal right, haha…

Dr. Ray: Demons, yeah. 

Apostle Norma: Yeah. Yeah, all the open doors and the legal right but uh, he came to our town and, and, and, my cousin said, “You need to come hear this preacher, he's something like we've never seen him before,” discerning spirits, you know, words of wisdom, words of knowledge, operating in the gifts. And so when he came to me he, he, he got down on his knees and he asked me, he said, “Do you know how much God loves you?” And uh, you know, I get tearful when I think about it and I said no. He said, “If you can just imagine how much God loves you–” he said, “You’re special to God,” and, and in my mind I'm thinking, Me? All I've been through, you sent him to tell me I'm special to God? But he said, and he began to tell me about me being suicidal, he began to whisper and tell me, you know, “You're suicidal and the enemy wants to…”, and all these things he said, “...but God loves you so much.” He said, “Matter of fact, I'm just go ahead and tell you the apple– you're the apple of His eye.” You know, I was raised because grandfather was uh, uh, uh, later on in life he was– he had the prophetic, he was called to be a prophet because we're um African American and uh, Blackfoot Indian, you know, that's, that's our nationality, that's why I have these…bones. And so my grandfather– and once he got saved in his older, later years, he would teach me the Bible. One scripture, chapter he had me read was the 31st Psalm where David said, “In Thee, oh Lord, do I put my trust; let me never be ashamed. Deliver me speedily. Be Thou my strong rock, for a house of defense to save me.” And so, he had me uh, memorize that. He said, “I want you to…” to, to, to “memorize this and say this,” and, and uh, I did but when I met the minister that told me about Jesus, he asked me did I want to accept Jesus as my Lord and Savior? Now, I went to church, we were raised in a Baptist background so I did go to church and um, and I said yes, you know. So he said, “Well, repeat after me,” and I said it and, and that day God saved me but I knew I needed more, there was more that I needed. 

Dr. Ray: So, you– it's interesting that…that that preacher was, I mean, obviously speaking prophetically from the Lord because it is exactly what you needed to hear because you'd heard nothing but the opposite your whole life,

Apostle Norma: Right.

Dr. Ray: You were worthless, you were ca– you were nothing, you, you didn't matter, you don't count, nobody wants you, and all of a sudden, you hear everything the opposite. I've often said that Satan attacks with opposites, he will. You know, I've seen it so many times, people that are told that they're worthless are incredibly valuable, folks. People that are called that, they're uh, they're called stupid are extremely intelligent. In other words, Satan attacks with opposites and obviously, he targeted you at a very young age, very young age, which means you were anointed, you had a call of God on your life and the devil knew it. 

Apostle Norma: Yeah. And, another thing, Dr. Self, I had asthma so bad growing. Like you said, he targeted me at a young age because I had asthma so bad and back then we didn't have inhalers, you didn't have nebulizer machines, you know, we're talking 60s, 70s. And…but I had asthma so bad that I couldn't even sometimes walk across the floor but my grandmother would use this old remedy from the Watkins Man, I don't know if you ever heard of Watkins products, but it was white some kind– some kind of something she would concoct up, white linament, red linament, some other stuff and uh put it on my chest. I missed a lot of school because of asthma but miraculously, uh, at 16 years old God healed me. I never had asthma anymore after 16 years old. 

Dr. Ray: Wow. Good. That, that's good, yeah. Jesus. So, you know, listening to you: here you've got rejection, word curses, betrayal, abuse and, but God had a plan for your life. And of course, now I don't want to jump too far ahead, but you have an incredible ministry of deliverance and so you, you, you've gone from rejection, betrayal, abuse, um, you know, every type of horrible thing that could happen to you, to redeemed, blessed, and now you're setting captives free in a deliverance ministry all over the US. I mean, everywhere, it's incredible. I could go on. I know I jumped ahead a little bit, but I want to just…I want, I want our listeners to know this is a bad story with a great ending. 

Apostle Norma: Haha. Yes, praise God, praise God. And so, as I went you know through life, I, I still had the issues with the family– family members hating me and me not understanding it. I remember being 26 years old and I just could not…

Dr. Ray: …people just hated you for no reason, right? 

Apostle Norma: No reason, no reason. Family members. And it goes– it's going on to, to this day, Dr. Self. They're teaching them, and it's a familiar spirit. This familiar spirit is coming down through the bloodline and lineage and they're teaching these children that are younger than me to hate me and they don't even know why. It's, it's a, it's a demon spirit that is attached to our bloodline. They're…and they're, and they keep it going. And so, um…I remember 26 I was just crying on the floor asking God why am I hated by my family, I don't understand it, you know, I, I, I don't see where I'm any different than any of them, you know, and um…but I was. Yeah. 

Dr. Ray: Reminds me of somebody in the Bible named Jesus who was hated…

Apostle Norma: Right. 

Dr. Ray: Matter of fact, the prophecy was He was hated without a cause, and He originally was hated by his own family. His brothers didn't– hate, James hated Him until he finally got converted. Yeah. 

Apostle Norma: Yeah. And uh, and I always heard from them, “You think you're better than us, you think you're better than us,” and, and I kept…and you know, I'm like, “How– where are you getting this from?” You know? I don't think I'm better but it was– and even to this day I can see some uncles or some of them and they'll see me and they're like, “Oh, you, you, you still think you're better than us.” And I'm like, “No, you think I'm better than you,” you know, “I don't think, I don't think anything. You think it,” you know, so… 

Dr. Ray: That's a good way to put it. You think.

Apostle Norma: Yeah. 

Dr. Ray: You know, I've often said the anointing in you is in conflict with the demonic that's in them, you understand? And I see that a lot with uh, Spirit-filled Christians. They get hated without a cause, and there are people around them that will come into conflict with them and it's a spiritual conflict. It's a conflict between the Holy Spirit, the anointing of God on your life, and what's going on in their life. I've seen it a lot, I've experienced it. 

Apostle Norma: Yeah. 

Dr. Ray: But it's painful to be around though. I mean, you know… 

Apostle Norma: It is, it is.

Dr. Ray: Especially from your whole family.

Apostle Norma: It feels like– yeah, you're the outcast when you go into some– something. Thank God that I know about deliverance and rejection and all that so I know how to like, you know, hit it when I walk into a room, you know, I know how to deal with it. But uh, yeah, I thank God for that. And so as we go on, as I get older, I realize that there's, there's more. We talk about redeemed, there's more that I need, I went to Spirit-filled churches, and the one pastor, every Sunday he said deliverance is here, deliverance is here but I was like, I never got any and I was like, I got– there's more, I know there's more to you than this. I've gotta have more. And, and, and being um, a, a, a prophet and prophetic, God– He, He speaks to me, He would speak to me. And so um, I, I, I just kept saying, I know there's more. And one day I was laying on my couch and I was talking to the Lord and He spoke to me and, and, and He said, “I'mma send you back to your hometown.” He said, “You've been asking me for deliverance–” 20 years, Dr. Self, 20 years…

Dr. Ray: Wow. 

Apostle Norma: …I'd been asking Him for deliverance. He said, “For 20 years you've been asking for deliverance. I'mma send you back to your hometown,” told me there's a prophet and a prophetess. I didn't know them, I didn't know who they were, I didn't even know nothing about them, He said, “But I'm– want you to go back there and they are going, I'm going use them to get you delivered.” I didn't know who I was looking for, He didn't show me no faces, He didn't give me no names…you, you know. 

Dr. Ray: So did you, did you go back and you find– and you found– 

Apostle Norma: Yes. I, I went back and, and as I– when I went back to my hometown and I always would say, “I don't never want to come back to this godforsaken place,” you know. But God was like, “Well, I want you to know, daughter, I'm there because I got two people that– that's going to meet.” And so what happened, I just happened to go to this little small church and I met this minister and their family and the son was like, “Well, you know, you new in town and we're going to see Camp and– Camp in Illinois at this little church and, and, you know, there's–” he knew this uh, uh a minister uh, um, Tony Camp is his name, Apostle Tony Camp and this other they said, “I want you to, to meet them,” and so I was like, “Okay.” Well, when I go there, I'm, I'm, I'm sitting there and they're ministering to people and the Lord's using a losing using Apostle Camp great ways, growing people's legs and arms, and that…and I'm sitting there, while I'm sitting there God said, “These are the two people,” and I'm thinking, “Wow, I don't, I don't, I don't know,” uh, these people I didn't even, you know, I'm in Illinois with these with strangers that I didn't really know. But I found that they had a church in Hannibal Missouri that, that, that uh, Pastor Camp had a church in Hannibal and uh, and uh, you know, they were telling people to come and, and the people that took me said, you know, “You want to go? We'll go Sunday.” And so I said, “Sure, I want to go.” And the other lady that worked with him, her name is Elena, she's gone to be with the Lord…dynamite prophetess. And so I went with them, I walked into church that Sun– that next Sunday, uh, Dr. Self. And so I walk in, you know, and, and, in pride, you know, pride, “Oh, I'm a prophet,” you know, “I'm a prophet.” I walk in there, Elena walks up to me and she says, “The Lord told me that you need deliverance,” this is the one of the two people, said, “The Lord told me that you need deliverance,” she said, “When you walked in here in the spirit realm I saw blood dripping out your back, I saw knives and swords hanging out you,” and and all these things in the spirit from all the abuse the backstabbing all the stuff that had happened. She said, “I've seen all this in the spirit.” She handed me a card, she said, “God told me to tell you that you need deliverance.” She said, “Come see me, I don't chase anybody but you want deliverance come see me.” So I took her card and I was like, okay. So when I got home I thought, “I don't need any deliverance.” It's like, no I'm not going to go see her because I don't need any deliverance. And the Lord said, “What have you been asking Me for for 20 years?” I said, “Deliverance.” I got on the phone and called her and said, “When can I meet you?” And so she was in Hannibal, Missouri, I was in Louisiana, Missouri which is 30 miles from each other. So every Saturday, I would drive to Hannibal 30 miles meet her, uh, for like an hour, two hours to go through, through uh, my bloodline and go through a lot of things and even forgiving, forgiveness, forgiving uh, my mother. I thought I'd forgiven her, I thought I'd forgiven family members, I thought I'd forgiven people but until I really got deliverance I didn't realize that I didn't– I hadn't forgiven them. But when I went through deliverance and, and went there and she made me uh, go through mapping and see some things and face some things and she said, you know, “You did the best you could do with what you knew and, and, and this wasn't your fault, this wasn't your fault, this wasn't your fault,” you know, uh, “your mom raised you this way this she had to have been raised this way or taught this way for her to treat you this way.” And so um, God began to do some inner healing, I needed to be inner healed, and I had to go through forgiving my mom, I had to go through forgiving my grandparents, I had to go through forgiving my aunts and some of my uncles and, and relatives. And God taught me the power of forgiveness, uh, uh, to forgive them, to be able to move forward. 

Dr. Ray: Wow. Okay, so…you're, you're getting free from all you've been through and you have a divine connection. So let's let's jump forward a little bit, just in the last few minutes here. So where are you now? And, and what do you do now? I mean, because I mean, I'm, I'm taking that this these deliverance sessions with that…that minister was in Hannibal…that that really helped, right? But now you do the same thing you have a deliverance ministry and you set captives free, you heal the brokenhearted. And also this cleansing the bloodline: that's a term that a lot of people are not familiar with, I know. And you get– you're involved in that as well, um, so, so I mean, I don't want to jump ahead too far, but did you get free with this couple in Hannibal, first off? 

Apostle Norma: I got, I got free uh, uh free as far as she could get me. She, she would tell me, “I can, I can go so far,” but the thing I loved about her, Dr. Self, was that I traveled with her a lot over, during– around Illinois and Missouri. She would go and do uh, a thing on Saturday, she would have a, a class where she would be teaching about deliverance and, and everything. And then the thing would get me, I didn't know that, you know, I had– God had called me for it– to deliverance. And so, I basically, I said she– her and God set me up because she had me, she had a meeting and when she got through teaching, she said, “Oh, we gonna have the prophetess come up here and we gonna have her,” you know, “pray for some people.” And so I'm looking like, who she talking about? Prophetess who? You know. She said, “Come on up here, come on up here, Prophetess Hawkins.” And so when I get up there, this lady comes and stands in front of me and, and I, the, the, the anointing for deliverance, she stands in front of me, demonic spirits like you said, they begin to manifest. And so, you know, I'm standing, finally, I'm just like, you know, “Come out in the name of Jesus.” And she fell on the floor and, and uh, everything. And then I was just like, what happened? You know. Another lady came up and she, she, I just– just the Holy Spirit just had me lay hands on her stomach and I just laid her hands on her stomach and said, “In the name of Jesus, come out.” She fell on the floor, she started vomiting in the trash can, she vomited up. When she got up she said, “Wow,” she said, “I have been wanting to get delivered from this,” she said, “I don't know what it was,” she said, “but I could feel it looking out my eyes.” And I– God didn't tell me what the spirit was so I'm looking at my– myself, you know, like, what just happened? You know, like what just happened? Uh, and it was God. And so she would– I would travel with her and it finally got to the point where she said, you know, “I–” she would tell people, “I don't go where she goes. I don't go that far.” And because the Holy Spirit and God began to train me, He began to give me a hunger, a greater hunger, and a greater desire for more for inner healing and deliverance. And Dr. Self, I would go into– at the time we had Christian bookstores, a Christian bookstore, I lived in St Peter's, Missouri then and I would go to the Christian bookstores, then the Holy Spirit would have me go to the aisle where there's books, there would be books on deliverance at the time, there would be a few people that had them, and I, and the, and the people in the bookstore knew me. I would sit on the floor and wait for the Holy Spirit to tell me what book to get and what book to buy. My daughter would call me, say, “Mom, where are you?” I would say, “Oh, I'm just–” She goes, “Mom, I know where you at, you at the bookstore sitting on the floor,” haha.

Dr. Ray: Haha. That’s hilarious. 

Apostle Norma: And I said, “You're right.” And she goes, “Well, have you got a book yet?” I said, “I'm waiting for the Holy Spirit to tell me uh, what book to get.” So I picked up a lot of books on um, inner healing and deliverance. That hunger grew and grew and grew and um, and, and God just– you know, He, He used me. But when we talk about the, go back to real quick, “You ain't nothing, you ain't never gonna be nothing, you didn't come from nothing,” I fought those cursed words. I saw God use me great and mightily set the captives free but I still fought those words. And so I had to get, get delivered and renounce those words and get delivered from those curse words. 

Dr. Ray: You know…and I know this is an incredible story and we're, we're running out of time, but obviously we're set up for part two.

Apostle Norma: Okay. 

Dr. Ray: We– we've got to do a continuation because…

Apostle Norma: Okay.

Dr. Ray: …this is how you got to where you are… and now, we need to do a show and let you explain, you know, healing and deliverance. I know we've all heard of it and we've had some experience with it, but your, your take and your insight on healing and deliverance I think is really really good and really deep in, in, in the bloodline and, and getting free from that uh, because you've done it. And it's not like– you're just not a teacher that's teaching something, you've experienced it and you know it's real and you've been set free. And God uses you now. I know you teach classes through Zoom and uh, you know, you're online and you travel, but we've got to get more into this, okay?

Apostle Norma: Okay, okay. 

Dr. Ray: Before we go, before we go, um, tell us again, tell the, tell the audience the name of your ministry and if you want to give them some contact information where they can get more information from you, that's fine, it's up to you. I know because I know you do teaching online as well on Zoom. 

Apostle Norma: Yes, um. We– it's called Dallas Freedom Outpost, Rose of Faith Ministry, we're in Dallas, Texas. Um, we have a book called Uprooting Your Roots Through Inner Healing, Deliverance, and Bloodline Cleansing. And so we have a, a class and we'll give you– the manual comes with it we and you we teach you. And like Dr. Self said, we teach you but it's from experience. Also, everything we teach is all on the word of God. We got scripture after scripture after scripture in our manual but also you'll hear life, uh, experiences on how God delivered, uh, me and the lady who does the ministry with me, uh, from…we needed deliverance, you know, and how we have testimonies of people that have taken this course. It's like five months really, have taken this course, we do it one night a week for two and a half hours and uh, five months and we have testimonies of how just…just this book, the teaching itself, God has inner healed people and they've gotten deliverance and their life has changed. Not only has it changed, uh, in the spiritual, it's also changed in the natural. And so we have testimonies about that. 

Dr. Ray: So how would I…if I'm interested, “Wow, I want to get involved in this, I would like that book, that workbook, I want to take this course,” how would– how would I do that? 

Apostle Norma: Email us at dallasfreedomoutpost@gmail.com. 

Dr. Ray: There you go, okay. That's what, that's what we need. dallasfreedomoutpost… 

Apostle Norma: …freedomoutpost@gmail.com. 

Dr. Ray: …@gmail.com, okay. And we'll put that in the show notes as well, okay? All right. So…well thank you so much, um, Apostle, for being with us. And so I want to do another show, um…and actually, let's just get into healing, deliverance, cleansing the bloodline…

Apostle Norma: Okay. 

Dr. Ray: And, and getting, and getting free. You know, there's nothing like um, having someone minister to you who knows what you've been through because they've been through it and maybe even worse and they got free, and you got free and there's nothing like it. So um, you want to close us out with prayer, Apostle? 

Apostle Norma: Sure, sure. Father God, we just come to the name of Jesus. We thank you that you're God and beside you there is no other God. We give you all glory, praise, and honor for what you have done here today. And Father, we just– I thank you for Dr. Self. I thank you, Lord God, for the connection that you, Holy Spirit, have made. And Father, we just ask that you just continue to bless him in his ministry and his school and everything that he does, Father. And Father, we know that greater is not yet to come, greater is here. And we just thank you forward, and we cover him and myself with the blood of Jesus, Father. We just thank you, we praise you, we give you glory. Holy Spirit we thank you for your presence here today and we just bless your name. In Jesus’ name we pray, amen. 

Dr. Ray: Amen, amen. Well, thank you, Apostle, and folks, be listening for the, the next show, part two. We're going to get into some healing and deliverance and cleansing and… 

Apostle Norma: Amen. 

Dr. Ray: Amen. Apostle, thank you so much for being with us today. 

Apostle Norma: You're welcome. 

Dr. Ray: You’re an incredible blessing. God bless you.

[Music]

Well, folks, that wraps up episode 183, was that powerful? If you can just grasp everything she's saying, what she has been through, what Apostle Norma Hawkins– what she was raised in, what she went through, and how God now has completely turned her life around and now she is helping set captives free all over the U.S. An amazing story. Actually, there's more to come. Later, we're going to do another episode. Um, she sadly lost her daughter to cancer which is an incredible story of faith and redemption there as well. But an amazing woman. Uh, be sure and uh, you can email her at freedomoutpostdallas@gmail.com. No, I had that backwards, dallasfreedomoutpost@gmail.com. Don't forget, um, if the show is blessing you, please go to our website for the show, icmcolleg.org/selftalk. Give us a review, a donation would really be nice, we also got a lot of free stuff. We got merchandise, I have, I’m giving autographed copies out of my new book. Anyway, we love you. Thank you so much for being a part of um, Self Ralk with me, Dr. Ray Self. It is a blessing– it's a little bit of work, but I'm hoping the show is a blessing to you. God bless you.