The Gospel and Casting out Demons

In today's show, I interview Pastor Chris McCall, lead pastor of Destiny Church in Gulfport, Mississippi. I think you're going to enjoy this a lot, it is a very fascinating interview about the Gospel of Jesus Christ and it's not the gospel that we're accustomed to. This is a very important show, you're listening to Self Talk with Dr. Ray Self. I appreciate you very, very much. This show is sponsored by the International College of Ministry. We're enrolling right now at icmcollege.org. Don't forget to go to our website at icmcollege.org/selftalk and subscribe, rate, review, share, you know all the stuff to do. I appreciate you listening to this very interesting and fascinating show today about Jesus’ deliverance and why we're not doing it today, amen. God bless you.

 

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Dr. Ray: Welcome to Selft talk, everybody. Dr. Ray Self. I’m really excited to be here today and I have a very special guest with me. Before we get started, let's pray. Heavenly Father, we thank you, Father, for, for today. We thank you, Father, for everyone listening to this show. Father, I pray that uh, the Holy Spirit would just open up our hearts and, and open up our ears just to receive what you have for us today, Father. So Lord, we just invite your presence. In the name of Jesus Christ, we invite your presence today, Lord, and we do this for your glory. In Jesus’ name, amen, amen. Well, folks, I got a very special guest with me today in the studio - my very elaborate, fancy, high-tech, um, one-of-a-kind studio from New York City– just kidding. Uh, we got… I have Pastor Chris McCall with me, and Pastor Chris McCall is a senior pastor, lead pastor, however you want to put it, of Destiny Church in Gulfport, Mississippi, where rivers of revival are flowing. And folks, I'm telling you, it is flowing at Destiny Church. If you are ever in the Gulfport or Biloxi, Mississippi area, the Mississippi Gulf Coast area - even if you're not in the area - you need to check out Destiny Church. Something is happening there. The Lord is moving at Destiny Church like no other church, and I visited a lot of churches, I've been to… So amazing church, and pastor Chris McCall is just a really good friend of mine and I think we have an exciting topic today, so welcome Pastor Chris.

 

Pastor Chris: Honored to be here, Dr. Ray. 

 

Dr. Ray: I appreciate you. So, what I was going to talk to you about today is deliverance and the church, or deliverance in the church. Um… you and I have had some conversations about this, about the gospel. And you know and I know that the gospel is preached in a lot of churches and that's a good thing, you know, to preach the gospel. I mean, we, we have a commandment to do that. But I think, and you, you've kind of even opened up my eyes to it even more, that we're missing part of the gospel. And part of the gospel is deliverance, is that right? 

 

Pastor Chris: Right, right. I agree.

 

Dr. Ray: And why… why– why would you say part of the gospel is doing deliverance? Why would you… what– what– why, why is that? 

 

Pastor Chris: Well Dr., I, I think we agree that Jesus was the example of what the good news was. That's what He lived. When we read through the gospels, just the, the recording of his life, Jesus dealt with deliverance almost everywhere that he went. And so I firmly believe that if Jesus had to deal with as many demons as he did in the day and hour He lived, we know that sin has done nothing but increase and grow and so the demonic activity has grown, and we should be seeing as much deliverance nowadays in the church as Jesus was seeing when He was here. 

 

Dr. Ray. Wow. I mean that's, that's true. I mean, I mean, that's true. You know, Jesus… is the son of God– was the son of God, He came to earth. To me, something that, that I always believe– I know it's true that He's our model he's our example, right? 

 

Pastor Chris: Amen. Yes. 

 

Dr. Ray: So He came to earth to redeem us and save us, but also to show us, to show us how to minister by, by His example. We were to follow his lead, right? 

 

Pastor Chris: He was the model example I, I believe. 

 

Dr. Ray: He was example. So what did– you remember the old bracelets, What Would Jesus Do? 

 

Pastor Chris: Yes. 

 

Dr. Ray: Okay, so… you know, a lot of people, you know, they use those phrases, “Well, Jesus would forgive,” and “Jesus would,” you know, “He'd be really nice,” but Jesus would heal the sick, raise the dead, and cast out demons, right? 

 

Pastor Chris: That's right, exactly.

 

Dr. Ray: So… that should be in the church. 

 

Pastor Chris: That exemplifies the good news. 

 

Dr. Ray: Yeah. 

 

Pastor Chris: I mean, it's good news when somebody's being tormented, they're in bondage, and demonic powers are involved. The good news is, is that you don't have to stay in that bondage. And somebody has to be able to take them, how shall they know except the preacher preach? And so we've got to preach and practice what we know the gospel says. 

 

Dr. Ray: And so, the way I was raised I'm sure you're raised too, is you know, every Sunday I heard the gospel message. And it was a salvation message, you know, that, that hoping the Lord would convict your heart and people would get saved and come down to the altar and say “I want to confess Jesus as my Lord,” and that's a good thing. I mean, the salvation message… but, part of that message should– I mean, salvation is, is a benefit package, but that message– what you're saying, and I agree with you, is the message that's preached, in, in practice should include deliverance, casting out demons.

 

Pastor Chris: Absolutely. Absolutely. The amount of people that we see that are impacted by deliverance, the level of freedom is just incredible. And their testimony becomes one that carries such power and such weight uh, because of freedom. But so many people don't want to recognize or don't want to talk about the fact that demons are real and bring that up in the church because some people you, you, you may scare them off, they may think, you know, whatever… Uh, but I believe that if people are experiencing true freedom, true deliverance, they're, they're receiving from the good news, I believe that it'll be done in such a way that it's decently and in order and so people become confident that good things are happening. 

 

Dr. Ray: Amen. So there's a way to do it and not freak people out, is that what you're saying? 

 

Pastor Chris: Right, right. I've heard people say that, that, you know, it's made to be a freak show and I don't believe it has to be a freak show. Uh, matter of fact, I don't think it should be a show at all. It should be the same thing as somebody coming down and saying they were, they were a sinner and they want to get saved. They cry and weep and turn around and start smiling for joy because they've met Jesus as their savior. I think that same evidence should be seen when somebody gets delivered from a demon. 

 

Dr. Ray: You know, and I'll just I'll be honest, I've been very blessed to cast out a few demons in my life, thank you, Jesus - all about Jesus - but uh, what's really cool about that is, is you look at the change in a person, you know, when the demon leaves that oppression gets off of them, uh, the change in their face, the change in their countenance is just incredible. It's just incredible, I mean, glory to God it's just um, amazing. And I, I think not to practice deliverance in the church in a way is kind of cruel because you're leaving people, you know, with, with– leaving people– it's like not praying for somebody who's sick because, “Well, I'm not going to pray for you because you're sick because we don't believe in that.” Well, not to cast a demon out of somebody, to me is, in a way, is, is kind of cruel.

 

Pastor Chris: Amen.

 

Dr. Ray: I mean, it's heartless and this, this is what we're called to do. 

 

Pastor Chris: Right. I believe it and I, and, and I just saw something that, that I think really gives a, a picture to it. It's the Mr. Clean commercial. I know we've seen that time and time again, but the Mr. Clean commercial, they always want to show you the grime and the dirt, the blackness of a spot, and then Mr. Clean's magic eraser or whatever shows up and wipes it clean. And then the picture you see of Mr. Clean in white and he's sparkling and it, and it, and it just brings that purity. And I believe that when we're seeing people in that grime and that blackness and all, and, and it's wiped clean by the power of God and by the blood of Jesus, the Holy Spirit represents that Mr. Clean that comes in and gives that person that clean feeling because now they're being inhabited by the clean Spirit of God.

 

Dr. Ray: Amen. Amen. That’s… it's, it's beautiful. It's beautiful to see. I know in my experience, the way I've done it, um, when I, when I do church services, many times uh, there's an altar call. People come up to the altar or the front of the church, you know, they always want you - want me - to pray for them - and my wife, Christie - to pray for them. And so many times when I'm praying for someone - I'm just being practical here - as I'm praying for someone and I'll put my hand on them, I'll sense something, you know, demonic, and the Lord - you know, my, my discernment… discernment of the Holy Spirit would show me there's a demonic– something demonic going on here. And so what I do is, is I take care of that right there and I don't make a show of it. It doesn't have to be, “Come out in the name of Jesus!” [with emphasis, as if yelling ] You know, you can, you can do it in a very powerful way. Like uh, I'll be praying for someone and I just sense a spirit of, of witchcraft attacking them. And as I'm praying, I say, “Lord, I thank you, Father, for my, my brother Mike here. In the name of Jesus Christ, I rebuke the Spirit of Witchcraft off of you now. In the name of Jesus Christ, I rebuke this controlling spirit out of your life now, in the name of Jesus Christ. Thank you, Lord.” It doesn't have to be a show, but you can see things happen. 

 

Pastor Chris: That's right. Amen, amen. I believe flowing in it, uh, Dr. Ray, is the deal is being confident and assured of that I know completely what the full gospel message is… 

 

Dr. Ray: Yeah.

 

Pastor Chris: …and when I understand what the full gospel message is, I don't all of a sudden move into this revelation that now I know about deliverance and now I have a deliverance ministry. I don't have a deliverance ministry, I don't have a healing ministry, I have a ministry of the good news that includes deliverance and healing. 

 

Dr. Ray: So, other words… it's, it's almost like uh, because I, I grew up in that way: “I've got a deliverance ministry, I have a healing ministry,” you know, “I have a prophetic ministry,” uh, so it's almost like we cherry-pick instead of saying wait a minute, the gospel is all of those things.

 

Pastor Chris: Right. Amen. And that– that's what I truly believe and I think it's been missed a lot in the church world, is that we're one or the other. You know, where– what– what camp am I camping in? And I don't think there is a camp, I think it's the camp of the Holy Ghost if there is a camp, and I'm going to camp with the Spirit of God because I have become– Paul said I have become the temple of the Holy Ghost. So because I am the resident of– the residence of the Holy Ghost, the Holy Ghost is moving through me, as he wills, to do whatever is necessary at the moment where I'm, I find myself. 

 

Dr. Ray: Oh that's good, that's good. And so you have Jesus who was full of the Holy Spirit, and you go back and you, you look at… we're witnesses of Christ, we're, we're ambassadors of Christ, amen. We're ministers of Jesus Christ…

 

Pastor Chris: Amen. 

 

Dr. Ray: I mean, I was ordained as a minister of the gospel of Jesus Christ. And what is the gospel of Jesus Christ? Again, I think we need to, to get off the fact that, “Oh, the gospel of Jesus Christ is getting people saved.” Well, yeah, it is, 

 

Pastor Chris: Right. 

 

Dr. Ray: …but, but, but when you look at the ministry of Christ, he's preached the kingdom of God but he also healed, cast out demons, um, you know, raised the dead, performed miracles, this was all a part of the message. Then he said in John 14:12, “Those that believe in me will do,” what? “...the same works that I do and even greater works.” 

 

Pastor Chris: Greater. And I believe many times that some people don't even experience salvation because they haven't heard the ministry of deliverance, they haven't heard the message of the woman with the issue of blood. I don't believe she got saved first and then went and sought Jesus out, but she came to Jesus knowing that what she had heard about Jesus… if, if she could get to Him, the need that she had in her life could be taken care of. And so when she touched him, it was then she was healed physically but I believe she was touched spiritually and had entered into a relationship with Jesus at that point. 

 

Dr. Ray Right. So it's all, it's all a part of our message, I mean, it's all a part of our job. I mean, we're, we're ministers. And so I think what, what you're saying and I'm saying, you know, with, with grace to the church, is we, we, we can't leave out parts of the gospel… 

 

Pastor Chris: Amen. 

 

Dr. Ray: …the gospel message. And so, deliverance is part of the gospel. And… another question comes to mind: obviously, before a person has received Christ, there’s probably going to be some deliverance that's needed but also, you know, I know this is controversial, I see it with Christians who've been saved for years and are still being demonically oppressed. I don't believe Christians are demonically possessed but if you tell me demons are not attacking Christians you're, you're just crazy. Demons attack Christians all the time.

 

Pastor Chris: That's right, amen.

 

 

Dr. Ray: And they get all over them.

 

Pastor Chris: Yeah. 

 

Dr. Ray: And, and we need help in that area. 

Pastor Chris: That's right. 

 

Dr. Ray: I mean, uh, we've all been attacked by demons.

 

Pastor Chris: That's good. 

 

Dr. Ray: I mean, if you haven't been attacked by, by demons you're probably not a Christian. I mean… you know [laughs] 

 

Pastor Chris: When, when I, when I moved in my house, my house was clean.

 

Dr. Ray: Yeah.

 

Pastor Chris: But we still clean it after living in it because it, it gets dirty and so we maintain keeping our house clean. And I believe the same thing for a child of God is that we've got to keep an eye on what's going on because we are living in a world that is, that is filled with darkness, and darkness is constantly trying to penetrate the areas of light...

 

Dr. Ray: Right. 

 

Pastor Chris: And so we need to keep our house clean.

 

Dr. Ray: Amen. Amen. Well, and I think that's a great analogy. So you got your house, you moved in, you cleaned it, but it still periodically gets dirty. I– [aughs] we, we used to call it um, getting slimed. We get out, [laughs] we get out in the world and… because we have– we're not of this world but we live in this world. And you just go places and you do things and all of a sudden it, it just, it get… you get dirty.

 

Pastor Chris: Right.

 

Dr. Ray: You really do. 

 

Pastor Chris: Amen. 

 

Dr. Ray: And then unfortunately too what I've seen with the demonic oppression, is we all have wounds and issues and sore spots and weak places from our past that demons still like to try to take advantage of. And uh, I've often said they, they attack wounds, you know. We, we have wounds, and we do all have wounds. And demons attack those wounds, they attack us in our weakest places. And uh, we need, we need freedom from that in order to heal more effectively. 

 

Pastor Chris: Yes. I've likened it to uh a fighter, an MMA fighter maybe, where they're coming up on their next fight and their manager is studying the fight videos of their opponent. And what he's looking for is the weakness. 

 

Dr. Ray: Yeah. 

 

Pastor Chris: And if he finds out that guy had a fight six months ago that broke four ribs on his right side, he's going to give instruction that you need to pound on that right side. And so what you were saying, that's how the Lord really ministered to me, is that the enemy is going to focus on the areas where you have the weakest uh, strength and he's going to work on those areas. And so I have to reinforce strategically, I reinforce those areas to stay…

 

Dr. Ray: Yeah. 

 

Pastor Chris: …focused on the de– the demonic that's going to try to impact me in that area. 

 

Dr. Ray: And so as a minister of the Gospel, I need to understand that the people I'm ministering to-- I'm, I'm, I'm called to care for sheep. I usually– you minister the gospel, you have sheep that you're caring for, 

 

Pastor Chris: Yes. 

 

Dr. Ray: And if those sheep are being attacked, our job is to protect them. 

 

Pastor Chris: Amen. 

 

Dr. Ray: Our… and of course, the, the, the, the sheep that gets attacked the most are the ones that stray from the herd. 

 

Pastor Chris: That's right. Gotta stay in the herd.

 

Dr. Ray: They're the ones that are the most vulnerable. Got to stay in the herd. We talked about that last night. That's a new word we got here, stay in the herd. 

 

Pastor Chris: Stay in the herd. 

 

Dr. Ray: Stay in the herd. When you leave the herd, you're vulnerable. You're vulnerable. Uh… so how does a church that… Maybe you're listening to me and you're a Spirit-filled Christian and um, you know, your church does, does a lot of good things but the church doesn't do deliverance so to speak. How do you encourage pastors and leaders to, to start doing this, as part of, as part of their ministry? What…

 

Pastor Chris: Well, I, I think that that people have got to stay in the word and then they've got to be seeking the Holy Spirit to open up the word to them and not get closed off. I think many times as, as ministers, if we're not careful we get stuck in our rut of what we've come to believe is the truth. And because of that, we just kind of close everything off and we're not open to hear anything outside of what I believe is the truth that I've come to know. And so as a minister of the gospel, I have to be open to say, you know what, Holy Spirit, you are the Spirit of Truth and because you are, I'm asking you to make things real to me. Help me to expand my understanding in areas where I really haven't operated. ‘cause so many times, Dr. Ray, I think people think they're failures and it's really not, it's, it's the fact that I just need to step up and I need to allow the Holy Spirit to know that, you know what, it's not me that does deliverance, it's not me that heals people, it's not me that saves people, it's, it's the Holy Spirit. It's the work of the Holy Spirit bringing people to Jesus. And so in, in, in, in essence, all I'm doing is being the messenger of what Jesus came to bring. 

 

Dr. Ray: So the Holy Spirit is the full counsel of God…

 

Pastor Chris: Amen. 

 

Dr. Ray: You know. 

 

Pastor Chris: Yeah. 

 

Dr. Ray: Um, I, I keep thinking this: that uh, we've almost become uh, specialists. You know, “this is my specialty,” you know, like, “I, I'm known as moving in the prophetic” and uh, uh, and I, and some people: “I'm a deliverance minister, I'm a,” you know, “I'm a, my deal is healing ministry.” But truth is, we're all, we're all of that because that's, that's the gospel and that's the Holy Spirit… 

 

Pastor Chris: Amen. 

 

Dr. Ray: And it's whatever He wants to do. Does that make sense? 

 

Pastor Chris: At any given moment, that's right. 

 

Dr. Ray: Yeah. 

 

Pastor Chris: So I should be as, I should be as fluent in all the moving of the Holy Spirit as I am in one area. We both know that, that people will… will learn how to flow easier in, in areas and so they operate in that area more…

 

Dr. Ray: Yeah. 

 

Pastor Chris: …but, but to lock it into where that is me, that's who I am, this is what I do, I don't really do all this other stuff, that's, that's cutting myself off from the full gospel and saying that I was just saved and designed to operate in part of the gospel which is– not any of us are oper– are supposed to operate in part of it. We need the whole thing because the hurting and broken world is being affected by all these different areas and we were equipped with the anointing of the Holy Spirit to live in us so that we'd have access to the full counsel of God to be able to minister to the people. 

 

Dr. Ray: So it's the full counsel.

 

Pastor Chris: Yes. 

 

Dr. Ray: I mean, that's… that's so… that's so good because when you just really think about it, the full counsel of God is everything God wants to do. It's, it's the, the, it's, it's the whole package. And, and we have cut this package into pieces and going, “No, this is my piece of the package.” 

 

Pastor Chris: Yes, amen. 

 

Dr. Ray: But that's not what the Lord– necessarily what He wants to do. So we got to be open to whatever he wants to do. 

 

Pastor Chris: Yes sir, that's…

 

Dr. Ray: And, and you know, what's interesting about that is He will constantly surprise you. Sometimes He'll scare you, sometimes He will amaze you and uh, the…  you know, it's like, I, I, I had no idea that that was going to happen, you know. 

 

Pastor Chris: Yes. 

 

Dr. Ray: Uh, it's, it's always uh, in a way a surprise, what the Holy Ghost is going to do. And uh… it's… I love it though. 

 

Pastor Chris: I think too, Doc– on… Dr. Ray, what you just said a while ago. I think pastors become intimidated of one another and therefore they don't open themselves up to fellowship with one another to get insight from one another, rather than us doing what Proverbs said and allowing the iron to sharpen iron. 

 

Dr. Ray: Right. 

 

Pastor Chris: We don't want any of that happening because I feel intimidated, I feel threatened and so I think if, if we as ministers could understand that we are the same body, the body that we preach every Sunday, if we really believe that then we ought to be coming together as ministers together to encourage one another, to glean from one another, see what God's doing at this house and, and what could I do in my house. And I think if, if more communities of ministers would rise up together and begin to encourage one another, we could take our communities by storm. 

 

Dr. Ray: Amen. It's needed. It's, it's the body of Christ. It's not a… individually I'm not the body of Christ, corporately we're the body of Christ.

 

Pastor Chris: Yes.

 

Dr. Ray: And we need– we need each other. Unfortunately, some– it's a whole nother topic, is instead of coming together, we compete. We compete against each other for, for members and for church growth which is sad. You know, we– kingdom minded is I'm not competing against you, I'm, I'm on the same team with you working for the kingdom of God. 

 

Pastor Chris: That's right, that's right. 

 

But again, uh, the full counsel of God is… includes deliverance, and healing, and prophetic, and, and all the manifestations of the Holy Spirit. And whatever He wants to do, which will constantly surprise you. It's whatever He wants to do. 

 

Pastor Chris: That's right. 

 

Dr. Ray: So if we're open to whatever He wants to do, it's, it's, it's going to be… it could be anything. 

 

Pastor Chris: That's right. And ultimately people get free. 

 

Dr. Ray: Yeah they do. So the bottom line is– uh, but of course the focus of this particular show is deliverance and I think that we've backed away from it because we, we've seen excesses and we've seen extremes… and you know, I, I, I, I despise it when I see somebody making a show out of deliverance. 

 

Pastor Chris: Yes.

 

Dr. Ray: You know, it should not be that way. And I want to say this to the audience, just because you see a counterfeit of of something doesn't mean there's nothing real. As a matter of fact, Satan will always counterfeit what is real and valuable. 

 

Pastor Chris: Yes. 

 

Dr. Ray: And so yeah, I've seen counterfeit deliverance and I've seen people making a, a show out of it and it, it, it shouldn't be that way but it should be a part of the gospel message, should be a part of our church, it should be a part of our ministry. 

 

Pastor Chris: Yes, amen. 

 

Dr. Ray: And again, and, and anything else God wants to do, the Holy Spirit wants to do. 

 

Pastor Chris: That's right yeah amen.

 

Dr. Ray: I, I know once uh, and just being practical, I know once I was, I was preaching a message at my church, and um, a demon began to manifest out in the audience. So I had a couple of choices right there. I could uh, I could stop my message, walk down the aisle, “in the name of Jesus Christ, get out of this woman, get out of my church,” but I just felt like, you know, I've got to, I'm not going to interrupt the church, I'm not going to do that. And so as I was preaching, I kind of paused and I said a little prayer and I made a little proclamation and I just said, “In the name of Jesus Christ, I rebuke this hindering spirit. I rebuke this hindering spirit.” Get out of my church now, in the name of Jesus Christ.” Then I went on to preach and that demon heard that and left. 

 

Pastor Chris: Amen. 

 

Dr. Ray: And there was no interruption to the flow. It wasn't a big show, it was just kind of… I almost did it under my breath and uh, just took care of it. Didn't have to make a big splash about it. 

 

Pastor Chris: But it was the authority. 

 

Dr. Ray: Yeah. 

 

Pastor Chris: It was the authority and I believe that, that demons answer to genuine authority. Oh, that's a good point. 

 

Pastor Chris: And so I believe that's so critical. So it's not about, it's not about reading a book about casting demons out and I'm gonna go try this. I don't recommend that at all. 

 

Dr. Ray: That's the seven sons of Sceva. 

 

Pastor Chris: Right. You might find yourself running naked down the road. But I… you know, I, I recommend that people spend some time being mentored, poured into to build their confidence, to understand their authority, identity - which we've talked about a lot - identity of who I am in Christ, knowing that when I, when I release the word to that demon, there is no question about it, that demon has to obey because it is the authority of Jesus Christ. It's not Chris Mcall or Dr. Ray Self. 

 

Dr. Ray: Yeah. I love what Jesus says to His disciples when He sent them out and said “Behold, I've given you authority over snakes and scorpions and all the power of the enemy and none shall hurt you,” 

 

Pastor Chris: Amen. 

 

Dr. Ray: “...shall, shall injure you.” And I believe that authority is still for today. I know it is still for today, it's part of it. But, like you said, you have to know your authority. It's like you have to be confident in your authority. If you're not confident in the authority of Christ working through you, the demons know that and they're not going– they're not going to budge. 

 

Pastor Chris: That's right, they're not. Amen. Amen. In fact, they make it worse. 

 

Pastor Chris: Yeah. Well, they have counterfeit authority. 

 

Dr. Ray: Yeah. 

 

Pastor Chris: And they are they are, they're very well versed in their counterfeit authority. And so unless they hear that authority that comes through Jesus Christ,

 

Dr. Ray: Right.

 

Pastor Chris: …the one that defeated did all of them,

 

Dr. Ray: Right.

 

Pastor Chris: …they're not going to submit to us. 

 

Dr. Ray: Right, right. Oh wow. Amen. Well, any final word of encouragement? Maybe we got a leader here that's uh, saying you know, “I'm, I'm convicted here but I've never really done this,” and uh… you know, final encouragement. What, what do I need to do if, if I'm one of these guys that say, “You know, I think you're right. I need to get this deliverance ministry operating within my church. The– part of the gospel is also casting out demons and I, I missed that part.” What– what's your encouragement to somebody like that? 

 

Pastor Chris: Um, again, Dr. Ray, I think it comes back to the simplicity of the gospel again, which Jesus said the Great Commission was to go and make disciples. And so regardless of how long I've been saved or been in the ministry, I should still be a disciple of Jesus Christ which simply put is a student. I don't think we ever not– are not a student of Jesus Christ. So I think that I have to humble myself and if a guy is saying, “You know what, I, I believe in that but I've been nervous, I don't really know how to flow,” I think you should get with somebody who you know has fruit in that area and allow them to pour into you and go with them and watch deliverance take place. And, and then a good person discipling you is going to release you into helping to flow in that to where you get experienced and you see how that it flows in that authority. And I believe that any person that has a heart to follow after the heartbeat of Jesus will be used in deliverance and see people set free. 

 

Dr. Ray: Wow, that's a powerful statement. That is a powerful statement. Thank you, Pastor. Thank you so much for uh, this, this show and I think this is a topic that maybe we can do some follow-up, you know, down the road on to some other shows. Uh, this, uh, this is– I've been talking to Pastor Chris Mcall, he's the senior pastor of Destiny Church and Gulfport, Mississippi on Three Rivers Road. Um, one of my favorite places on the planet to be and I'm very blessed to be in Gulfport right now and uh, such an incredible anointing. Um, it's… there's just… you folks, to me, what makes a great church is the presence of the Lord and the presence of the Lord is in Destiny Church. I'm not trying to brag on the church, I'm just speaking real here. But Pastor Chris, if you could just close us in prayer and um, thank you so much for being on the show today. Thank you. 

 

Pastor Chris: Amen. Father, we just love you. We thank you today, Lord, because of truth. And Lord, we embrace truth because we know it is the truth that ultimately sets us free. God, I pray over every person that's listening and that will listen to this broadcast. Lord, I pray in the name of Jesus that they would have something that would quicken in their heart by the Holy Spirit, Lord, to recognize that deliverance is not just some deliverance ministry that somebody does in a big church somewhere, but deliverance is what happens in daily life from, from people… person to person to person, Lord. So I'm just asking, God, that you make this more real just as you always have before in touching people's hearts and lives and letting them know that you're with them and because you're with them. If God be for us who could ever stand against us? So Lord, I thank you for deliverance rising up, people getting free in churches all across the nation. And Lord, we give you all the praise, the honor, and glory for it. In Jesus' name. Amen. 

 

Dr. Ray: Amen, amen.Thank you so much, Pastor Chris. Thank you everyone, for listening to Self Talk with me, Dr. Ray Self. God bless y'all. 

 

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Dr. Ray: Well, that completes another episode of Self Talk with me, Dr. Ray Self. Thank you so much for listening to us today, I appreciate you very much. You have been um, incredible, the amount of downloads and the amount of shares we've had. I always appreciate you very much. I hope this show has been a blessing to you. Please share it with your friends and neighbors and go on to our website, give us a review, that really helps us get the show out to, to more people. And also share and subscribe, that– all that does is help us get this message out. The website for the podcast is icmcollege.org/selfttalk. Now, the website for my college, International College of Ministry, is simply icmcollege.org. I encourage you, think about finishing up your Associate’s, your Bachelor’s your, Master’s, or your Doctorate in counseling, ministry, theology, prophetic ministry... We are affordable, we have scholarships available if you cannot afford it. Um, we are accredited, you work on your own schedule. Most people can complete a degree in one year. Check us out at icmcollege.org. There's some freebies on there, some free lessons you can try out, free evaluation form - it's a good thing and it's a Holy Spirit-filled thing, amen. Thanks again for listening to Self Talk with me and my special guest today, Pastor Chris Mcall. God bless you. This is Dr. Ray Self.