Tragedy to Glory

Can you believe it? It is episode 184 of Self Talk with me, Dr. Ray Self. In today's show, I do part two of my powerful interview with Apostle Norma Hawkins. In the show today, she talks about her daughter's struggle with cancer and it, it seems like it's going to be a, a show of tragedy but there's so much miraculous that takes place in the middle of this struggle with cancer. Now, her daughter did just go to be with the Lord, but the story of God's glory in the midst of it will really touch your heart and inspire your faith. The show today is again, brought to you by the International College of Ministry. We are enrolling right now at icmcollege.org. If God's called you, you know you need to be equipped. Get your college degree, get your seminary degree at icmcollege.org. God bless you, thanks again for listening to Self Talk with me, Dr. Ray Self. God bless you.

 

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Dr. Ray: Well hey everybody, welcome to Self Talk with me, Dr. Ray Self. So glad you're with us. Um, let’s just pray. Heavenly Father, we thank you for this time together. I thank you for everyone listening to this episode, Father. I pray, Father, this show will be a blessing to everyone who hears it, Father, and that your name will be lifted up. And also, Father, that in this show, because of this show, that healing and deliverance will come to those who need it, Father, through this show, Father, through your glory, through your anointing, Father. In Jesus’ name, I pray, amen. Amen. Well, folks, I'm very glad to have again, uh Apostle Norma Hawkins with me today, and so glad you're with us. Welcome, welcome, Apostle. 

 

Apostle Norma: Thank you. Thank you. 

 

Dr. Ray: …very, very glad, uh…Again, she's with um, Freedom Outpost Ministries Dallas, right? Rose of Faith, Freedom Outpost Ministries Dallas, Rose of Faith Ministries. I get that right? It's a mouthful, it's good. 

 

Apostle Norma: Dallas Freedom Outpost, Rose of Faith Min– 

 

Dr. Ray: Dallas Freedom Outpost Rose of Faith Ministries, got it. And her information is in the show description. When you go to the podcast you'll see a show description and all her contact information is there. So last week we got into your past and you know, I wrote a book called Redeeming Your Past, Finding Your Promised Land, and I know that Christ has redeemed us, you know, from our past. But, sometimes there are remnants of our past that still affect our present day and can hinder our future. But your past, to me, was an incredible story, I mean, the amount of rejection, betrayal, abuse that you went through, uh, with your own family. And bless your heart, your mother a severe alcoholic and you're 12 years old, sometimes you were left alone to care for younger siblings up to a week at a time with no food, no, I mean, no provision, no, no protection, uh, just incredible. And then so many times uh, your family would literally speak curse worses– curse– curse words over you, reject you, betray you, speak about you, slander you, all this stuff. And… 

 

Apostle Norma: Yes. 

 

Dr. Ray: But yet now here you are, a free woman, free by the blood of the Lamb, and with a very incredible ministry of healing in deliverance and setting other people free. But um, you– I always say, you know, you think you have a history. Everybody thinks we have a story until you hear somebody else's story and you go, “Oh my gosh, I thought my past was bad but that's nothing compared to yours.” 

 

Apostle Norma: Yes. Right.

 

Dr. Ray: But God, but God,

 

Apostle Norma: But God.

 

Dr. Ray: But God gets the glory. So, so we, we talked about, you know, what you went through growing up and the horrible you know abuse you…abuse you went through and we don't want to go back into that but listen, uh, listen to last week's episode, folks, to get the details on it - it's an amazing story. Now, part of the story we didn't get to was the story of your daughter - is it Lakisha, right? I get that– 

 

Apostle Norma: Terkisha, Terki–

 

Dr. Ray: Terkisha. And um, this story about your daughter, I think maybe is something that needs to be heard– I know it needs to be heard, and can help others. So tell us what happened, uh, with your daughter, Ter–Terkisha. 

 

Apostle Norma: My daughter in 2008, um, of October, um, she started having in her left breast– breast pain and um, you know, she, she– we c– went to see a doctor, a couple doctors and they kind of said, “Well, maybe it's just um, fungus from a bra that you, you bought.” And um, so as time got on the pain got really severe. I know a couple of uh, doctors and um, nurse practicians because I've been in medical field majority of my life and so we were sitting there and they looked– and the one nurse practitioner said “Norma, it's more than what– I think she needs to see a specialist.” And so my daughter went to see uh, um, um a surgeon, a woman surgeon

 

Dr. Ray: Now, excuse me…

 

Apostle Norma: …and she called the doctor…

 

Dr. Ray: …how old– how old was she at this time? 

 

Apostle Norma: 32. 32 years old, no children, not married. Um, you know, she graduated from college, had her degree, um, but and uh, she um, went to see Dr. Jay and so we saw Dr. Jay. She said, “Well, you know, it just could be a fungus but we're gonna do a biopsy,” she said, but it's it– the symptoms are similar to this very rare aggressive breast cancer called IBC, Inflammatory Breast Cancer. And so when my daughter um, went in for the biopsy, we went, we waited, came back a few days later, Dr. Jay called her back and said uh, “I think it is IBC,” um, Inflammatory Breast Cancer. And when they caught it it was already stage four. It was so aggressive that it could go to stage four, you know, in a matter of weeks. 

 

Dr. Ray: Wow. 

 

Apostle Norma: Yeah. 

 

Dr. Ray: Oh goodness. Wow.

 

Apostel Norma: And um, so Dr. Jay um, uh, told her, she said, “What we're going to have to do, first we're going to do, is I'm going have to send you to an oncologist and uh, and we see what he says. Then you'll have to have a mastectomy,” so she also had to have a mastectomy at 32 and so we went to see the oncologist. Well, the first oncologist, he came out and he looked at it - the results uh, from the CAT scan, the PET scan - and he told her, he said, you know, “This is IBC, it's a very aggressive cancer, I give you six months. It's already stage four, it's so aggressive that…that, you, you could be dead and you gone in six months.” And so I thank God I stand on the word of God and I sta– stood and I told him, I said, “I don't believe your report, I believe the report of the Lord.” And I said, and uh, “I don't want to see you, I want to see another uh, oncologist. We want to see another doctor.” And so my da– da– daughter worked for this huge health care system in the midwest in the St Louis area and um, so she knew a lot of the doctors. And so, they asked– we asked and they said, “Yeah, Dr. L,” I call him Dr. L, “Dr. L's here, he owns the practice.” And so we said should– she'll– let her see Dr. L. So we met, scheduled an appointment, came back and saw Dr. L and Dr. L did tell– he said, you know, “It is a very aggressive cancer,” he says, “but you know what we can– we will uh, do chemo, then we do radiation and you have to have a mastectomy,” he said, “but you know, I know people that have lived with it.” And so um, and by this time my daughter's 32, no children, no husband, she's just, you know, frantic and just upset and crying and, and I had to still stand strong on my faith even though I'm watch– and, and, and mind you, she's my only daughter. I only had two kids, two children in 12 years. I had her and then her, her brother. So she's my only daughter and um, so uh, I, I was doing deliverance then and so I got on my knees that night before and I prayed and asked God before we saw Dr. L again and I said, “God, show me how this starts. How does– where does it come from? How does it start?” And when I was asleep the Lord showed me like a circle, he showed me a little small circle and He showed me a large circle around it. So we went to see Dr. L, I asked him, I said, “Can you show me how this starts,” and he drew the same thing that the Lord had showed me, he got a pad out, he drew a small circle and he drew a large circle and so I knew then God had answered me and it was time for battle. 

 

Dr. Ray: Right. Yeah.

 

Apostle Norma: And uh…

 

Dr. Ray: He showed you the diagnosis.

 

Apostle Norma: Mhm.

 

Dr. Ray: And the doctor even showed it to you. Wow. 

 

Apostle Norma: And um, so what we did was with deliverance inner healing, I began to tell my daughter, you know, because she had some issues with her father, forgiving her father. He had, you know, never been in her life so there was rejection, there was abandonment from him, there was some bitterness, unforgiveness…And so through deliverance we, we walk through uh, those doors of telling her you got to forgive him, you know, you need deliverance from, from bitterness. And, and, she knew deliverance because she'd helped me also doing the ministry. And so, you know, she got delivered from that, she forgave her father, got delivered from, from bitterness and anger and rejection and fear, and I believe that if she had not have uh, gotten deliverance and forgiveness for her father that she would not have been here. Um, those 11 years uh, God– it kept her because the power through, the power of forgiveness and you know. So she forgave him and this is so funny, when we go for her to get chemo, there's a chemo that they call – and I looked it up last week because I kept saying, “What is the name of that chemo?” And it's and uh, we looked it up, um, I looked it up last week and they call it the Red Devil. It's so– it's a very aggressive uh, chemotherapy. It's red and the side effects are, are powerful. It's a powerful chemo option and they uh, use it on a lot of different cancers so it's just not the uh, um, the– just not the IBC that they use it on. And um, I was like the Red Devil and they said yes. The lady told her, she said this is– it's called uh, uh it's called Doxo, Doxorubicin is what it's called for the medical term. And so she went and it– immediately hair began to fall out, you know, everything. And so we had to go through her uh, uh, crying about losing her hair - my daughter's beautiful - had to go through crying with her about losing her hair and still ministering healing to her, “God's got you, it's going to be okay, it's gonna be okay and uh, and then uh, Dr, um, Jay said - the surgeon said, you know, “Okay, we have to do a mastectomy,” you know, “We'll have to– you got to come in after the chemo,” so many weeks of chemo, then she said uh, “We'll have to do the um, mastectomy.” So then she scheduled her for her mastectomy at 32. We went to the hospital she did the mastectomy. I– I, they just watched how I would pray for her before she went into surgery. I didn't come in, you know, quoting scriptures and putting the Bible in everybody’s face, I would just pray for my daughter and speak faith and life into her. And so she was in surgery for about maybe three hours with the mastectomy. And so when Dr. Jay the surgeon walked out of the uh– came out of the operating room to come tell me that Terkisha was okay and she made it through surgery, she walked straight over to me and these are the words that she said to me and I have people that was with me that she said these words to me when I got in there, “I knew you had been praying.” 

 

Dr. Ray: Wow. And when she–

 

Apostle Norma: Yes. That was what Dr. Jay said to me. And I, I, I looked at her and just nodded my head and said thank you, went and saw my daughter, she went home, then she had to start a course of radiation. Well, when it came to radiation, my daughter was fair skinned and uh, radiation, it burned her after mastec– burned her because she had to have it from like her neck, jawline all the way down to almost to her uh, top part of her stomach, the radiation to make sure they got to kill the cells of the cancer from– after the chemo. And uh, Dr. Self, it was like uh, they had put her over a um, a barbecue grill and just held her over there and it burnt the skin. Now mind you, she doesn't have her breast over here so it's just bone and skin and um, so and the radiation burned her pretty bad and so one day I was at work and she was at work and she called me crying, “Mom,” she said, “you need to come. I'm weeping out water, just running all down my clothes,” and, and she said, “I'm on my way to see Dr. L.” I said, “Well, give me 20 minutes I'll be there. I'm on my way.” And so when I walk in, in the room, by this time, mind you this is my faith in, in God and, and I couldn't trust and had nobody else to trust in but Him. And so when I walk in there she's on the table crying and she says, “Mom,” you know, and this is comical, when I walked in the lady had some Teflon pads on her then some silver, Silver Deen– Silver Dine to for the burn…and when I walked in she said, “Mom, I smell like a dead possum,” and so I laughed, I said, “You don't even know what a dead possum smells like ‘cause you wouldn't get that close to them.” So we started laughing. But then when– when I lifted up the Teflon pad, I walked over, and by the authority and the power that God and the Holy Spirit has invested in me, I L– I, I didn't see my daughter, I saw a circumstance only God could heal. And so I pointed at the weeping water that was coming out of the burn and I said these words, I said, “In the name of Jesus I command you to dry up, die, cease to exist.” And I spoke to the flesh, I said, “Flesh, and I command you in the name of Jesus to grow back form back the way you were before she ever got burned.” And I tell you, Dr. Self, it was a miracle. One hour it was dried up and her skin was growing back and it was, was a miracle. But it was to the point that the nurse, when I did that she looked at me strange and the uh, radiologist, oncologist her name was Dr. F, she– when my daughter would come back for checkup, she'd ask my daughter, “Where's your mom at? Where's your mom? How's your mom?” And she goes, “Mom, she asked about– about you every time I come here?” And uh, so it was the power of God. It was not me, it was the power and the authority and– that God had given me and I operated in it by faith, believing what the Bible says we can do. 

 

Dr. Ray: Right. So the skin started to grow back, the, the…the watery fluid stopped. Wow. 

 

Apostle Norma: Stopped. 

 

Dr. Ray: She probably was in less pain after that I would guess. 

 

Apostle Norma: Mhm. Yes, yes, yes. She was in less pain…

 

Dr. Ray: That’s great. Thank the Lord for that. 

 

Apostle Norma: …and so…Yeah, we give God the, the glory and um, as time progressed on, um…you know, they said, “Okay, you clear,” you know and we had to go to the hospital on Christmas Eve. We had to go and have her get a PET scan and so we went to get a PET scan and the radiologist was there and so she went in got the PET scan and it was after the chemo, the radiation. And so we were getting ready to go and the radiologist himself came out of the…his office and he said, “I don't normally do this,” he said, “but it's Christmas Eve,” he said, “But I come to tell you some good news.” He told my daughter, he said, “I read the whole PET scan, there's no trace of cancer.” He said, “So I want you to have a, a Merry Christmas.” 

 

Dr. Ray: Wow.

 

Apostle Norma: “And so we rejoiced and gave God glory.” 

 

Dr. Ray: Wow…wow. 

 

Apostle Norma: Yeah.

 

Dr. Ray: Incredible. 

 

Apostle Norma: Yeah. God is. He is. 

 

Dr. Ray: Amazing. Wow, wow. So she was– so she was healed. 

 

Dr. Ray: She, she, she was healed, the cancer was in remission, she, she didn't have it and this was uh, like I said, 2009. So 2000, they gave her five years, this what's called Tamoxifen, and it's something they take– It’s supposed to, you know, keep the cancer cells uh, dead when she took it for five years. But then um, there um, was a, a breakthrough and she had to go and have– kept having PET scans and CAT scans all the time, like every three months she'd have to get her CAT scan and stuff, and they said that they saw it– a spot on her lung, and that is where it usually comes, either the lungs or the liver when it does begin to come back. And so they saw a spot on her lungs, so she had to go through another round of chemo, not the Red Devil, this was another…a round of chemo. I think…no, I think she did do the Red Devil again. She did and um, uh, and so again, you know, they said, “Okay,” you know, “It, it killed it again,” and she worked, she worked every day. She worked for the vice president of pharmacy and several directors of pharmacy. And she went to work every day - they loved my daughter, they– when, even when she was sick and couldn't drive from neuropathy from the chemo, the directors-- all the directors would take turns picking her up from work, bringing her to work, and bringing her home. It was like three or four directors and they would all say, “We'll– I'll take her, drive her this week,” and another one would say, “Well, I'll drive her the next week,” and they would uh, and helped her through it. 

 

Dr. Ray: Hmm.

 

Apostle Norma: And it helped me too because I was– still had to, still work. 

 

Dr. Ray: Right, right. Wow. And what year was this? 

 

Apostle Norma: That was like 2000 uh, uh, probably 14. 2014, because she got it in 2000 uh, uh, December of 2008 when we started going through, right through the surgeries and everything. But it really started in October, that's when she began to notice the pain in her breast and, and uh, the changes in her breast. 

 

Dr. Ray: Okay. So in 2014, she's uh, completely free…healed.

 

Apostle Norma: Yes. 

 

Dr. Ray: That's good. 

 

Apostle Norma: Yeah. And, and she live– we traveled, went on vacation, traveled, did ministry, uh, and everything. Setting the captives free and uh…And then um, uh, we moved to Dallas, Texas in 2016 and when we got here she went to work for Nestle, the one that makes the very best chocolate and they do water, but she went for the– she went for the work for the water division and Ozarka, different water. And so she uh, began to say, “Mom…” you know, she began to lose weight. And uh, and we was like…I said, “You need to get an oncologist here and see why, why you're losing weight.” And so when she did get to see the oncologist, he said, you know, “It's back.” And uh, he said um, and you know, he did a CAT scan, he said, you know, “this time it's, it's spread. It, it spread.” He didn't tell her but he told me. I said, “Well, can you just tell me where you see it?” He said, “Well, I'm going to tell you, Miss Hawkins. I see it in her pituitary gland and uh, it's, it's, it's spread,” and he said, “I can, I can give her some uh, chemo.” She didn't want any more che– she refused to take any more chemo intravenously. She said, “Mom, I don't want any more chemo,” so he gave her um, uh, some chemo by mouth to take, a pill to take, um and uh, she took that for a few months and uh, you know…And I was steady, “Uh, cursing the cancer, rebuking it, you know, applying in the blood of Jesus. We stood on the scripture in Mark 11:22-24, he says, “‘Have faith in God…but whoever should say unto this mountain, Be thou removed and be thy cast into the sea;’ and shall not doubt in his heart, but believe that those things which he said should come to pass, he shall have whatsoever he said.’” Then we stood on that scripture and uh, and so she would have uh, different back sets but God would bring her out of it. And so she worked, still worked at Nestle and finally it got to the– a point to where it was in her lungs and her lungs was beginning to fill up with fluid. And so she had to go ahead and go on uh, long-term disability from her job, uh, and uh, 2000, late 2018, and uh…uh…the doctor would give us these, these uh, containers and he had a tube in her lung and he would connect the container - and remind you, I'm a mother and I'm watching this, I'm doing all this, but my faith is still in God. And so was my daughter, she…we still trusted God and so, and then we would just let it– it would just drain the fluid until she got a little tight and then she said, “Okay, that's enough,” and then we would uh, uh unhook the tube and then uh, get rid of the whole uh, vial that the– the drain and the fluid from her, um…

 

Dr. Ray: Yeah. 

 

Apostle Norma: …lungs and I, I with her to see a cardiologist doctor and I would go and sit and wait in a waiting room while she would go in and he would drain fluid from her lung, he would come back and say, “Well, I took out– we took out a leader of fluid,” 

 

Dr. Ray: Right. 

 

Apostle Norma: You know. And uh, she was able to breathe better and everything and um…then uh… 

 

Dr. Ray: In the midst of all this, you– you're having faith, she's having faith, you're doing spiritual warfare, declaring healing scriptures, speaking to the mountain…

 

Apostle Norma: Mhm.

 

Dr. Ray: Uh, moving in supernatural faith…

 

Apostle Norma: Mhm.

 

Dr. Ray: …in the midst of all this. 

 

Apostle Norma: Yes. 

 

Dr. Ray: This is, which is amazing, and, and it's, it's really a good story so g– go ahead. 

 

Apostle Norma: And so, uh…she had to go uh, in the…the hospital and uh, the doctor was going to go in– he– so he could put another tube in for, for draining because it, it would…like the tube would get clogged up and she had to go in get another tube to put in for draining and um, so they…my– I work for some doctors and the doctor said, “Well, I'm going to refer her to some doctors at a hospital here in Tex– Dallas called UT Southwestern. I'mma refer her to some doctors that are uh, pulmonologists and, and it's a good hospital.” And so we went there for a while and saw the pulmonologist and, and then she also saw a new oncologist, a lady doctor, Dr. C. And she…you know, she told her, she said, “You tr–,” said, “You've had so much chemo,” she said, “I– we– I can't–” she said, “You've had every chemo, almost, that we could have,” she…she said, “and it's not,” you know, “it's not feasible for you to get any more chemo.” And so my daughter said, “I, I understand,” you know, because she– we had– she had gotten chemo here, and she said, “I understand.” And so, the one time that I didn't go with her to see Dr. C, I, I worked and, and it was just right down the street from where I worked at. That one time I didn't go when she went to see Dr. C, Dr. C told her there's not– this was August of 2019, “there's nothing else that we can do for you. There's, you know, I give you,” she told her, “I give you a couple of months,” and uh, you know. So my daughter came back and she told me said I still said, “You know, I believe what God says, I believe God,” you know, “God's gonna heal you, it's going to be okay,” you know, keeping her faith. And she was so thin, she had los– down– she was down to like uh, I had pictures, she was down to like 100 and probably 20 pounds and she's f– my daughter was 5 10…

 

Dr. Ray: Hmm.

 

Apostle Norma: …so she was, yeah. So she was tall and um… And we still prayed, we still trust God, we still believed God, we didn't curse God, we weren't angry at God, we still loved God, we still trusted Him at his word and uh…So, uh, uh, as times going on she said, “Mom,” you know, she says, “I know that uh…” and my daughter was a prophetess too, she saw very good and re– in the spirit realm and God would speak to her and she could take the word of God and He’d give her revelation you'd be standing like, wow. But uh, she said, “Mom I know that um, I'm, I'm gonna be going home to uh, live with the Lord and to be with the Lord.” And I was like, “Are you sure?” She didn't tell me that God had told her, I said, “Are you sure?” She goes, “Yeah, mom.” She said, “This is what I want you to do, Mom, I want you to let me go,” she said, “But if you pray God to keep me here,” she said, “but let me go, Mom.” And so I told her, I said, “Okay, I– I'll um, I'll, I'll, I'll let you go.” And so she was in the hospital because her CO2 level was really uh, high and she hadn't slept for like a week. She couldn't sleep so they admitted her to the hospital and uh, I have another lady that was uh, sitting there with me and my daughter hadn’t slept for a week and she said, “Mom, I'm so tired, I just want to get some rest.” And so I walked over to her, I got her hand and I begin to pray and uh, and uh, um, bind the enemy, uh, that would keep her from sleeping. And, and the next thing I know she was gone to sleep and, and slept for probably like four or five hours but she hadn't slept for over a week. Again, it was God, I give Him all the glory, the praise, and the honor, and uh…This is comical, the mother part, all the years I stood on my faith and I still uh, trusted and believed God. And so when uh, the doctor came in and to– he said, “Well, you know what, we want to put her on hospice,” and um, “maybe she–” you know, “we give her maybe a month.” And uh, I said, uh, “no, no, we– I'm not– we, gon– put her on, we gonna put her on hospice.” “Oh, we got this beautiful hospice place that she can go to, it's just beautiful.” And so, after you walked out the room, I think uh, Dr. Self, after all those years of standing in faith within all of that I'm still a mother and this is my only daughter, I've just been told by two oncologists that she may have a month, month to two months to live and uh, and so you know, the mother part, not, not, not the, the person that stood in faith and believed God but the mother part of me took over. And so I'm at the hospital on the floor just crying and, and rolling around, “No, no, no, no! I can't do it, I can't do it! Don't leave me with–” And so finally, I, I tell the story and I laugh about it because I'm on the floor just crying and screaming, like I said, it's the mother part, not doubting God, not cursing God just the mother. And my daughter, she, she raises up off the bed, pulls the oxygen mask off of her mouth, and says, “Mama, get up off the floor. They gonna put you in a room, get up off the…” 

 

Dr. Ray: Haha. Oh my goodness. 

 

Apostle Norma: And so I got up and said, “Okay, okay Imma be fine, I'll be fine.” She goes, “Mom, you're gonna be fine without me. You're gonna be fine,” she said, “But promise me, promise me one thing.” And I said, well, she said, “That you will never stop doing deliverance. Promise me that you will never stop setting the captives free, promise me you'll never stop uh, uh, getting people inner healed and delivered.” I said, “I promise you. I promise you I will continue to do what God– you asked.” That was what she wanted me to promise her. 

 

Dr. Ray: Wow. Wow. What an amazing girl. Here she's going to be with the Lord, a– “Promise me Mom you'll not stop your ministry of healing and…” 

 

Apostle Norma: Yes. 

 

Dr. Ray: “...and deliverance.” 

 

Apostle Norma: Yes.

 

Dr. Ray: Amazing. Wow. 

 

Apostle Norma: Mhm. Yes. And uh…and so it's getting close to November because she went home to be with the Lord on November 19th, 2000– uh, November 8th, 2019. We’re getting close to November and so I'm, I'm, I'm, you know, I'm asleep and the Lord speaks to me and shows me He's going to take her home. And so I wake up rebuking the devil, “Oh, Satan, I rebuke you, you're a liar, in the name of Jesus, no,” you know. So I did all that and the next few nights or whatever I have another dream again about her leaving and I– again I do the same thing, I wake up and I'm rebuking the devil and she's like, “Mom, are you okay?” ‘cause she wasn't out of it then yet. I said, “No, I'm fine,” you know, “I'm just– just a little warfare in, in my sleep, I'm okay.” And so…couple– few, few more days went on, finally God in His love and compassion, He's like, “I'm trying to tell them get My daughter prepared, that I'm taking my daughter home,” and just like I'm talking to you, Dr. Self, He spoke to me and said– and then the number to my apartment, townhome is 5112, and He spoke to me and said, “Norma, there's going to be a funeral at 5112,” and so I, I woke up and I was like, “Okay, God okay give me the strength, give me the strength, just give me the strength, okay, okay,” because I know the voice of the Lord. I said, “Give me strength, give me strength. And um, a few days later I was here alone with her, and because I, I, I wouldn't let ‘em put her in hospice, I said, no. But the great - I have to get this in here - in the process of that, in September she was here in hospice, she woke up at midnight, said, “Mom, can you get me a glass of lemonade and a sandwich?” I said, “Okay, sure.” I was sleeping on the couch and I got up ‘cause they had a, a hospice bed in here. I said, “Sure, I'll do that.” So I got up and got it for her and handed it to her and I laid back down. And Dr. Self, I hear like a, a gurgling and I jump up and I go over and I go, “‘Kesa, are you okay?” She's lifeless, you know, uh, lifeless. And so I called this other minister friend of mine and I began to tell him, I said, “Terkesha, I think she, she's gone. We felt the pulse, I think she's gone. I need you to pray with me,” and I just begin to praying tongues, I began to speak and tell her spirit, “Get back in her body, in the name of Jesus. Soul, you come back here, you get back in her body now, in the name of Jesus.” And I have like four people that can witness that. I said, “You get back now, get back now.” And, and for two hours, two hours I would go from that to tongues. I would come back to, “Get back in her body,” and I would go into tongues, praying in tongues, praying in the spirit. And I kid– she came back and she, she looked and she said, “What happened?” And so I'm being funny, I was so happy, I said, “Thank you, God, thank you, God, thank you, God, you brought her back.” I said, “Did you see any lights where you were going to?” She said, “Mom, really?” she had like, this, you know, said, “Mom,” she– we had that type of relation– she goes, “Mom, really?” I said, “Okay.” I– she goes, “What happened?” I said, uh, “You were gone and God brought you back,” and she lived two months. And again, on uh, November 8th, 2019 - that was September - she uh– I was– her and I were here alone, 2:30 in the afternoon and I sat with tears streaming down my face and I said, “God if you give me the strength, I'll let her go. If you just help me, I will let her go.” And so the moment I said to Him, “God, I release Terkisha to you, I let her go,” that was 2:30. At 5:30, she took her last breath. Didn't struggle or nothing, just said, (gasps) and went to sleep. 

 

Dr. Ray: Oh, wow. 

 

Apostle Norma: Mhm.

 

Dr. Ray: Goodness. 

 

Apostle Norma: Yeah. 

 

Dr. Ray: What a story. 

 

Apostle Norma: Yes.

 

Dr. Ray: Wow, wow, 

 

Apostle Norma: Yeah. 

 

Dr. Ray: Wow. 

 

Apostle Norma: And um, and then the people that was coming to get her body they were behind or whatever so she had to lay here on my couch for two hours um, um, you know, to– they came and I with my faith was like, go over there, you know, you can bring her back, but I remembered what she said with her will, “Mom, let me go, let me go. If you pray for me, God to keep me, let me go.” So I, I had to stay with what she said and then wait for them to come and uh, and take her body, you know to the mortuary. 

 

Dr. Ray: Goodness. What a battle. But you had so many…so many victories in the midst of all the…you know, a terrible loss but, but it was so many victories in the midst of it. 

 

Apostle Norma: It was, it was. He was faithful. Yes, faithful. 

 

Dr. Ray: So what's– what would you say to someone who's lost a child um, you know, we, we, we lose our parents and grandparents and we kind of expect that I guess, although it's not easy, you know. I've lost my sister and my wife lost her brother, that was not easy, but I've never– can even imagine losing a child. W- what's your– what's your message? 

 

Apostle Norma: My message is that you know, God gave her to me for 43 years. But I went back to how the God that we serve gave His only Son. He– Jesus was His only Son who died on the cross. He bled, He died for us, He redeemed us, and brought us back. And so I thought, how much more I love my daughter and I would love to see her here but you know, I believe that, you know, we have children and people that we're– they're here uh, uh, for a time and when God, you know, calls them home, um, I let her go. And everybody– everybody's situation is different, you know, everybody may not have the faith that I had, uh, uh, to release uh, uh, their child back to God Who gave her to me from the beginning, to release their child back to God. And so my thing, my word for them would be to, you know, uh, be encouraged and then through, through it all, God will– if He brings you to it, He will bring you through it. And, and that's what it was for me. He– I was– He brought me to it and He also brought me through it. I'm over, I'm on the other side. Yeah. 

 

Dr. Ray: I mean, what an amazing story of…I mean, you know, being a mom but being a, a minister in the midst of it and uh, faith and spiritual warfare and um, healing, miracles, you know, after miracle, you know. Raising the dead, you know, heal the sick, raise the dead. Freely you have received, freely give, I mean, you live it out, you know. Then finally, it's still hard, I know it's hard, but uh, you know, it was your daughter's will and uh…and it took faith for you to let her go, God bless you. 

 

Apostle Norma: It did, it did, yes. And… 

 

Dr. Ray: And to me, I mean, I know that was a difficult time although there were a lot of victories and testimonies in the middle of it. Um, I used to say that there is treasure in the midst of every tragedy, you know, I've actually done a lot– some teaching on that, um, and then out of that you have your daughter's– some of her last words were you were to continue your ministry of healing and deliverance and cleansing the bloodline, right? 

 

Apostle Norma: Mhm. Yes. 

 

Dr. Ray: You do that. 

 

Apostle Norma: Yes, I do. Yeah. 

 

Dr. Ray: See, I would like to sit under teaching like you. There's a lot of teachers out there but you're uh, different because you are a doer of the word. You don't just teach it, you do it. 

 

Apostle Norma: Yes. 

 

Dr. Ray: And there are teachers out there that show us all the principles but may not be doing it. 

 

Apostle Norma: Mhm. Yes.

 

Dr. Ray: You're teaching it and doing it… 

 

Apostle Norma: Yes.

 

Dr. Ray: And I bet you your students are learning to do it. 

 

Apostle Norma: Oh, yes. And you know, when her…at her memorial service, Dr. Self, I– everyone expected– it was packed, you know, all– everybody, and they expected me to just come in, you know, be falling out and they fanning me and bringing me back to. So when my time came, I walked on the stage and I told everybody, I said, “If you came here to see a sideshow, you're not going to see one but my daughter and I were close, I love my daughter, and she's gone to be with the Lord.” And then I said, “But I have someone that I want to give a message to.” So everybody's looking, wondering– wondering who the someone was. I said, “I want to give this message to the devil.” I said, “I want you to know, Satan, that I'm still gonna cast demons out of people, I'm still gonna raise the dead, I'm still gonna heal the sick, I'm still going to preach the gospel, I'm still, I– I'm still going to do what Jesus Christ chose me to do,” and you know, and… 

 

Dr. Ray: Amen.

 

Apostle Norma: Yes, yes, at her memorial service. 

 

Dr. Ray: Amen, amen, amen, okay. We're gonna close it with that. That is a…

 

Apostle Norma: Okay. 

 

Dr. Ray: …that's your grand finale, that's… 

 

Apostle Norma: Yes. 

 

Dr. Ray: …oh my goodness, oh, and you're doing it, you're doing it. It's been so wonderful having you here, and listening, I– I'm just honored that you shared the story with me and also the people listening, uh, and uh, incredible story. You know, it seems like it was just a, you know, this tragic story but, but it wasn't a tragic story, it– there was tragedy but there were so many victories and so much glory to God in the middle of it. 

 

Apostle Norma: Yes, yes. 

 

Dr. Ray: Amazing. You, you were a blessing. Why don't you– 

 

Apostle Norma: Thank you. 

 

Dr. Ray: Again, close us with prayer, uh, Apostle Norma Hawkins. 

 

Apostle Norma: Okay. Father God, we come to you in the name of Jesus. We just thank you for this time together, Dr. Self and I, and we thank you for your Holy Spirit, your presence, being here even though He's in Florida and I'm, I'm in Texas. There's no boundaries Holy Spirit. And we just thank you, Father. We thank you, Lord God, for the people as they listen to this podcast, Father God, that their faith, Father God, will be increased, Lord God, that those, Father God, that, that have– think that, Lord, you have forsaken them or forgotten them, Lord God, that Father God, they would be renewed, Father, in their relationship with you, they would be renewed in the word of God, they would be renewed with the Spirit of God, seeing that you still are the God that does signs wonders and miracles through us, Father God, in the name of Jesus, Lord God, through faith, Father God, if we only believe what your word says. And I thank you and I praise you, Lord, for the support, opportunity to meet Dr. Self, Father. And Father, I just ask that you continue to bless him and we just give you glory, praise, and honor. In Jesus' name, we pray, amen. 

 

Dr. Ray: Amen, amen. Thank you, Apostle Norma Hawkins, thank you. And um, Dallas Freedom Outpost Rose of Faith Ministries, okay? And uh, we've got your contact information in the show description with the notes that come with the show and uh, anyway, this– your such a blessing. Thank you so much and God bless you. 

 

Apostle Norma: Thank you for having me. 

 

Dr. Ray: Okay, good night. God bless you. 

 

Apostle Norma: Good night.

 

 [Music]

 

Dr. Ray: Well, that concludes episode 184. I hope this show was a blessing to you and inspired your faith, I know it did mine. Um, it was a tough show, it was hard to listen to the story, but in the middle of this story of tragedy, you saw so much miraculous going on that it, it's just inspirational. Uh, Apostle Norma Hawkins is an amazing woman. In the show description is all her contact information, I encourage you to reach out to her. Also, she does uh, she teaches us on healing, deliverance, and cleansing the bloodline, um, on– through Zoom. Uh, amazing ministry, uh, powerful woman out of Dallas Texa– Texas. Thanks again for listening today and um, if this show has been a blessing to you, be sure and go to the website for the show, icmcollege.org/selftalk. Subscribe, uh, give us a, a review, that really helps us get more downloads, and share this show with people; um, that helps, it helps us a lot. Uh, if you'd like to donate, that'd be wonderful, uh, we have a cash app link in the uh, show description. Also, you can go to the website, icmcollege.org/donate, and we use that money uh, primarily to give away scholarships. So God bless you. Thanks again for listening to Self Talk with me, Dr. Ray Self. God bless you.