How Chronic Illness & Imposter Syndrome Don't Define Your Success with Bre Clark

Bre Clark: 0:00

And so I've been trying to clarify. You know a lot of people who deal with it. They're successful women, type A personalities who are crushing it, but they feel like they're still trying to crush it. We're trying to arrive, they're trying to do things. It's interesting because a lot of people who deal with chronic illness or deal with any type of barrier in their lives who are very successful. It's very easy for imposter syndrome to see bin and say maybe I'm not the right person for this. You know, my disease was caused by me. You know, or I should be doing better, I should be able to be this, I should be able to do it by myself. All these things come to mind, and so I don't think a lot of people realize that this is another added layer that comes with dealing with life.

Nikita Williams : 0:45

Welcome to Crafted to Thrive, the globally ranked podcast for entrepreneurs living with chronic illness. I'm your host, nikita Williams, and after being diagnosed with multiple chronic illnesses myself, I figured out the surprisingly simple missing links to growing a profitable business without compromising my health. Since then, I've helped dozens of women just like you learn how to do the same. If you're ready to own your story and create a thriving business that aligns with your health and well-being, you're in the right place. Together, we're shifting the narrative of what's possible for entrepreneurs with chronic illness. This is Crafted to Thrive. I am so excited to have Bre on the show. She watched out to me, so I'm really excited because she wants to share something that I feel like all of us deal with so much in the chronic illness community and just in life in general which is imposter syndrome.

Bre Clark: 1:53

And it looks different.

Nikita Williams : 1:54

I feel like for different spaces that we're in, but I'm so excited to have you on, so please tell us where you are, what you're up to right now besides recording with me, and we'll hop right on into it.

Bre Clark: 2:08

Yeah, thank you so much for having me on the show. I'm super excited. I really have listened to your episodes and so I was listening to an episode and I told my team. I was like you know what? Let's, let's reach out to her, let's see if we can. We can talk, you know, and just have a discussion and everything. I am in Austin, texas, and that's where my family is based, and when this airs it'll probably still be hot. So, yeah, it's hot, but you know, we my family and I, we keep bouncing back and forth and we keep ending up back in Austin. So we say that this is our, this is our forever home base, even if, you know, we leave I'm sure we'll be dragged back here. But I am a multimedia journalist. I've been in that field for over a decade. I'm a talk show host, now mom of one, two soon to have another, so two kids will have, and so we're just. I've been married for over a decade as well, and so we're just kind of in this journey of just trying our best to leave a legacy of helping people at this point in our lives.

Nikita Williams : 3:10

I love that and it's so important too, and I think it's going to be powerful for your kids too.

Bre Clark: 3:16

I always think about this when kids would be like, yeah, my mom was like on TV and she had a podcast episode, like, like she had podcast like a show and all that kind of stuff. I think it brings that journey along with them, versus, like back in the day, you used to have the books and even though those are important too, but they'll be able to visually see so many of these different things that create and leave a mark on people. Yeah, yeah, hopefully by then they'll be a little bit further than we all are. You know, when it comes to dealing with these things, you know they'll have more emotional intelligence and all that kind of stuff, but hopefully we'll break some of those generational curses.

Nikita Williams : 3:50

Hopefully.

Bre Clark: 3:51

When that comes, yeah.

Nikita Williams : 3:53

Yeah.

Bre Clark: 3:53

Well, tell me, why is Imposter Syndrome such a passion project topic for you? How has this shown up for you and why is it something that you want to help people to kind of identify and overcome? The main reason I want to talk about Imposter Syndrome and just kind of put it out there wherever I can is because it's a relatively new concept that people are understanding. There's been a study that was done back in the 70s, so it's not a new phenomenon that we're just now finding out about. It's just now we're finally talking about it and there's more resources out there, but they're still very limited. You can find all this stuff about depression, anxiety, dealing with you know, parenting and aging and all that kind of stuff, but when it comes down to Imposter Syndrome, there's still a lot to learn and in the process, there's a lot of misconceptions out there about it. So if I were to break it down, imposter Syndrome is just the inability to acknowledge your accomplishments, your value, your worth. You know, and sometimes that's external factors that have contributed to that and sometimes it's internal. You know factors and sometimes it's a mixture of both, but what I'm finding is a lot of people think it's oh, I just need to learn to be myself. That's what Imposter Syndrome is. You know I need to stop walking around being fake and that is not it whatsoever, and so I've been trying to clarify. You know Imposter Syndrome is you're already great. You know a lot of people who deal with it. They're successful women, type A personalities who are crushing it, but they feel like they're still trying to crush it. You know what I mean. Yeah, they're trying to arrive, they're trying to do things, and so when I listen to your show, it's interesting because a lot of people who deal with chronic illness or deal with any type of barrier in their lives, who are very successful. It's very easy for Imposter Syndrome to see bin and say maybe I'm not the right person for this. You know, my disease was caused by me, you know, or I should be doing better, I should be able to beat this, I should be able to do it by myself. All these things come to mind, and so I don't think a lot of people realize that this is another added layer. You know that comes with dealing with life, you know, especially for women who were trying to leave their mark on this world in some kind of way.

Nikita Williams : 6:23

Yeah.

Bre Clark: 6:24

I think you had it. I love that you said it's not that you're aren't successful, it's not that you're already crushing it. I think what you're saying is that it's more that you're questioning if you are actually successful, if you're actually crushing it and if you aren't doing enough right, and I think that's a piece of Imposter Syndrome for me. I literally was just recording an episode earlier today with someone and I was like, yeah, that's Imposter Syndrome. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's thinking up there. How have you experienced Imposter Syndrome in your journey? Because you have a very vast experience and being on TV, being a journalist in different ways how has this affected you and how are you bringing that experience into how you're having this conversation? Yeah, so for me, imposter Syndrome I learned about the term late, in my 20s, and so a lot of people say, well, that's not late, but it's not late for me. I wish I would have known a little earlier, probably in my college years, about it. I graduated very early, so I did everything early. You know, I graduated. I was barely 20 when I graduated from college, wow, and I got married right after that. You know, we had a kid not too long after that. So we, you know, a lot of things were happening very soon in my life and I started my career at the age of 19 and broadcast journalism. So here I am, this young person who's just being introduced to the world and is living all types of life very quickly, and a lot of times I felt like, oh, I'm feeling because I had had this head start. I would say I had this head start and I was trying my hardest to keep that head start. It's like, hey, I'm a journalist, I'm doing this, I'm at this top 10 market in Houston, texas. I'm a producer. You know what else can I do? And am I doing this well enough? And I wasn't very great at the producing side, I'm better at camera, and so it was a lot of trying to figure out how to navigate a whole bunch of life changes all at once and wanting to be the best I could at all of them all at the same time. Not realizing life is life, it happens. It happens over the course of 70 years or more, if we're lucky, and I was trying to take and shovel all this life in a very short period of time because I felt like there were things that I needed to accomplish before the age of 30. And so there was all this pressure, outside pressure, that was also pushing that. As an African-American woman, you're told you got to do it, you got to do these things and you have to be the best because people aren't going to believe that you're good at whatever you're good at. You're going to have to work that much harder. So I'm getting those messages on top of all the internal stuff. And so it was a lot of that, and with that came a lot of stress, and with all that stress it's such a short period of time comes illnesses, and so in my 30s down, we're trying to figure out what some of those things are. I've gone through a lot of tests to try to figure out exactly what it is that I'm dealing with being tired, being agitated, sometimes gaining weight up and down, those types of things, and just navigating my health inside and out for the very first time, taking those things seriously. But in that feeling, this guilt of I should be able to still do all the things in the process of healing, which is just not the case. And so that's where my dive into imposter syndrome happened was in my career, feeling like I was feeling it and everything when everybody around me was telling me I'm not, and me feeling like I was being patronized and people like, oh, they just like me, they love me, they have to say that. And so that's kind of how my journey started was back in my 20s, when I was like, look, enough is enough, I am not doing. Well, you know how do I navigate this? And someone mentioned the term to me and I just started to deep dive and started realizing that there wasn't a lot of resources out there for it, and that's when I decided to start a talk show to kind of talk about it, to let people know this is a thing and people who look like me, look like they're very successful, deal with it on a daily basis, and the more we talk about it, the more we can get past it. Yeah, wow, wow, 19. Yeah, I'm like whoa, whoa, whoa, yeah, 19. I feel like when we're in our teenage brain, still at that age even though for women we I mean there's science that says that at that age, for women, we're usually more around the cognitive level of like 22, 24. But even still to feel that feeling of not enoughness or like I'm missing something or I'm not doing enough at that age to be in that place can definitely be relatable for so many of us, right? When I think about that, I think about living with chronic illness and how people are like how are you doing this? People are telling you're doing so many things, you're doing wonderful, and you're literally in the corner thinking is anybody gonna call me out in like two seconds? Like somebody is gonna be, like she should not be in this room right now. She does not know what she's talking about. Even though you've done the work, you've gotten to this place, you wouldn't have, at 19, gotten into the newsroom broadcast or in a room if you didn't know what you were doing. How have you found your safety and learning how to navigate that? Even today, yeah, community has been a big part of that. So, surrounding myself which was was hard, because people who suffer from imposter syndrome if they do know it's imposter syndrome, even saying that they're suffering with it, there's a fear of I'm going to be found out and people are gonna say no, that's not imposter syndrome, you just are awful, you're not capable. It's like it's not imposter syndrome, you're just incompetent. Those are the things that you're worried, you're about to hear and so, being in the spotlight on camera. You're asked to hide a lot of yourself, right, you're asked to be yourself, but not too much of yourself. Show everybody the good parts, but all the rest of that you just keep it in and you carry it home with you, especially when you're a journalist, when you're on camera, and so it was very hard for me to reach out to people. Luckily, I was married. That was the blessing of being married super early, as I had my husband, who often just kind of spoke the opposite of those thoughts that I was thinking, and of course, I thought, oh, he loves me, he doesn't want to see what's out, he's gonna tell me all these things, but the truth is it started with him. It was no, you can do this. And he would list off everything that proved that I was where I needed to be, that I deserved to be there and that I should want more at times when I didn't want more, and so I was lucky to have him. And then later, towards the end of my 20s, I met all of these different women here in Austin, texas, who I became friends with and we started dreaming together. These are all entrepreneurial minded women who really had dreams, had goals, and some of them felt like can I do this? Am I good enough to do this? What am I thinking? Is this crazy? And so we would just all talk to one another and we would do those same things, those same discussions that me and my husband were having, we were having in this group, and it would be like no, come on, you can do this. And so being in community and being honest and vulnerable was the thing that kind of helped me kind of navigate imposter syndrome. Now I'm not gonna lie and say that I'm completely fine. I don't have those thoughts and those moments. They're few and far between, they don't happen as often. And so community is what you need, because you can't do any of this alone, especially if you're dealing with other life things on top of that. I mean, most of us on that group have kids. Most of us on that group are in some type of relationship. If we're not married, all of us are very diverse, different women of color, and we're all battling life as well as these thoughts of can I do this? And so having that community is the most crucial part of it. You know, after you're identifying what it is, and so I think a lot of people are also just walking around, not realizing that they're suffering from imposter syndrome. They think it's depression, they think it's anxiety, and for me I thought it was depression, solely depression, you know. And so I found myself trying to heal what I thought was depression, when that was never the case, you know it was. Hey, I think I should be able to do all the things on my own all the time, and no one can do that. That's not how we're built. So community is a big part. That kind of has helped me, you know, move past a lot of some of these issues I was dealing with.

Nikita Williams : 15:50

I love that you said that.

Bre Clark: 15:53

I feel like it's like when people say you know what you need to do when you need to lose weight, like you need to eat better, you need to sleep, you need to exercise and you're like I wish someone would said something else, like take a pill or something like, something other than those things. But I feel like community is so underrated when it comes to so many things, specifically an imposter syndrome, and it is so important, as you're saying, like to have those people in your life to really breathe that belief and to like kind of give you a wall to put that self doubt somewhere else and to hear it differently. Yeah, there was something you said earlier that made me think about this in the context of where you're working from, Because I think a lot of my clients and people that I've talked to is this public persona, like in the community. If you're honest and vulnerable, they know the real you, they know what's going on, they know you know your demons and your angels. Things are going on in your head but everyone else doesn't know. And so you were saying in your journey, being on camera, being in the persona of people seeing you as a news anchor, versus what really was going on. It's very similar to women that I work with with chronic illness. We, many of us, are invisible chronic illness words you cannot see from our faces and our body that we deal with pain like debilitating pain, pain that brings you to the hospital, Like pain, right, and you're still showing up to me. That adds to that imposter syndrome so much. And I'm wondering what would you say to someone who's like listening to this and is like, yeah, I have imposter syndrome and yeah, it's heightened because of this kind of two worlds of us, like we are two worlds. How does that work? Yeah, so first I would say you gotta identify where some of those thoughts come from. You know, Because you had some of those thoughts patterns before you got diagnosed with whatever it is. It makes me think about my mom. My mom has struggled with illness my entire life, where she's in pain and you'd never know she gets tired and you'd never know. And my mom, I have always thought she was super woman. I've always thought especially now that I'm a mom like, how did she do all of this stuff? You know, I remember saying, mom, you never asked for help. Why didn't you ask for help? And she says, well, I just thought I needed to be able to do it for you all. I didn't want you all to look at me and think, oh, what is she doing? You know when, those types of thoughts they carry into your children, you know those types of thoughts they carry into your community, and if you're not open about what's going on, it's hard, it's hard for you to continue. You've got to identify where those thoughts come from. And so I come from a generation of very strong women who want to be very independent, who are very independent. But with that comes this level of toxic thinking of, hey, I have to do this myself, oh, and if they found out, this is what they're gonna think, right. So you have to identify where that comes from. And so for a lot of my, the women in my family, it's being African-American women who felt that they did not have the right nor the space to fail in any way, Because if I fail, it's over. If I slip up, it's over. I worked so hard for this opportunity when no one wanted me to have this opportunity. If I fail, it's over. And it's not just over for me, it's over for my children and their children and their children's children. And so that's kind of you know the ideas that were introduced in my culture. And so recognizing for her, I think recognizing hey, this is an issue kind of helps her in later years. You know, when I was a teenager, she would start asking us for help. You know, if they said you clean your room, you know those types of things. And so I think, recognizing that I had a mom who I thought was super room because she did all the things I'm now comparing. You know, I need to be super mom, like mom, and do all the things because she was hurting, she didn't feel good and she still did all of that. Why can't I right? So you have to identify those. Why can't I's, or what if I or if I, those types of thinking? You gotta identify them and you have to take note of them and, if it helps, write them down so that you know, look, this is what I'm doing, this is what I'm saying to myself. It doesn't sound like love. So I tell people, when they're trying to overcome this type of thing especially if they're dealing with something that's life altering on top of that to navigate those thoughts and then give yourself grace because you are not pouring from the same cup that a healthy person is pouring from. You're pouring from a cup that is already depleted and that is not your fault. There should be no shame in that your cup is already depleted. It's not fair. Let's move past that. What can you do to give yourself grace? It could start with the way you speak to yourself. It can start with a type of love and self care that you show yourself to be patient with yourself, and if that means the dishes have to wait, they have to wait. That means that you can't get that reported in that day. It's gonna have to wait, you know. And just giving yourself grace and demanding that people around you also give you that grace, because you have a right to it, because I mean, that's honest. The truth about it is you can give yourself self care all day, but if you have a boss or a spouse or a friend or a family member or someone in your life who's demanding more of you than they should, then that's not okay and don't say, oh well, they should treat everybody the same way. No, that's not how life works. No one is being treated the same way ever. They demand that grace, right, and so that's what I would tell your viewers, your audience, is that you know, identify where that came from, give yourself grace and then demand the grace that you deserve. Those three elements, that's what's gonna change. That's what's gonna help, you know, move forward, and you might actually find healing in that, physically as well. Yeah.

Nikita Williams : 22:35

It's so true, Brie, that I went through that experience. I still go through that experience. I still go through that experience of acknowledging that it's not necessarily a comparison.

Bre Clark: 22:49

I think it's the comparison with what your own expectations are of yourself that aren't really realistic in the first place, and to your point of really thinking about where does this come from? I didn't, we didn't just come out the womb with the thought of I need to be doing everything, because for a very long time, from baby birth to what three, four, five we depended on someone else to take care of some of our needs. Right, and if they were not fulfilled? If we're getting into the psychology because you guys know how much I love psychology, but for any of that stuff we get into a lot of those thoughts and a lot of those things we deal with when it comes to imposter syndrome or when it comes to the comparison is because a little version of us when we were younger thought well, I should and I'm responsible for taking care of this thing and no one else can do it. I need to create safety for myself. So I'm gonna take it on, I'm gonna be the one right. And in reality, what if that was never your responsibility? Yeah, right, and I think that part, like you were saying, just to identify, do I even wanna be like my mom. That's the one thing I said recently, like do I really wanna be a superwoman like that? Because she, as much as she had it going on and as much as she had things happening. Man, I remember being a kid thinking like it seems like a lot, as a kid seeing like that's a lot right, and so I love that. You said like, where's this coming from? No words coming from. Such a good point. Yeah, yeah, and just it's not that. I mean there are things that are like in life that are serious. Yeah, but if we really think about the things that are keeping us up, that are bothering us when it comes to not resting, when it comes to striving and thinking, oh, I'm gonna be successful if I do this checklist of things, it is not that serious. Honestly, the most success that I had in my career is when I stopped worrying about a lot of those checklist things, when I said you know what, fine, I can do it. Fine, that's always when the calls came. It was when I was like you know what I'm done? I can't do this. You know it's when I got the calls that was like hey, I remember my call to be the main anchor in a town where I had been a reporter before the main anchor was retiring and they called me up and said hey, bree, she's retiring, do you wanna be our main anchor? And I remember thinking do you have the right number? I don't think you have the right number and at the time I've never told anyone this, so all your viewers are getting the scoop. I was laying in my son's playroom feeling so defeated because there were so many things that I wanted to have accomplished that week that I hadn't accomplished. I was a stay-at-home mom, I wasn't on television anymore. My son was running around crazy. He was two years old. And I'm laying in his playroom on the couch like you know what I give up. I just give up. I just give up Like I guess this is just my life, I can't do anything right. And then I get a call hey, we want you to come and be our main anchor. No, it's not that serious. I wasn't doing all the things. I wasn't doing all the list, I was just trying to survive. And here I'm getting a call about that would change the trajectory of my career. And then, not too long after that, it's like hey, I'm gonna start my own talk show. Who am I to do that? But I'm gonna do it. And I wasn't checking off the things then either. I was like, hey, I'm in this industry because my child needs me. What am I gonna do now? And I got approached to a talk show. Checking off the things on your list is not gonna change whatever it is that this life has for you, and I believe that when you're dealing with an illness, your healing is not gonna come because you've checked out all these lists. I got goosebumps. You say that You're like over here, like, oh, you find that you're doing this deep dive in Google. I mean, I watched my mom do that, trying to figure out what she could do to be healthy so she could accomplish more. When I was looking at her as a child, feeling like she was doing everything that, oh my gosh, how am I ever gonna live up to this? I don't think that it was that analytical at the time. I thought it was probably a little simpler than that. But I'm looking at it now, thinking how am I gonna do this, all these types of things? And the truth is, who says that that's who you're supposed to be? Who says that that's where you're gonna find your happiness and your success. So I would ask people to take that pressure off themselves as we move forward, because that's the other part of the healing is just taking that pressure off internally and externally. Just take that pressure off because what's supposed to come will come, and I'm not talking about manifestation, I'm just talking about what's for you will be for you. It will happen, it's so right. It's so funny that you say that when you take the pressure off, or it's not that big of a deal, when you're just like in the moment, in the zone and you're not allowing all of that pressure to be in the way, and then, or even if you are and you feel completely stuck, and then someone calls you out and is like hey, we would love to have you're like I'm over here thinking I am dust, even though technically I am, but I think I'm lower than dust and I'm over here feeling this way and someone wants to work with me. I feel like that is a common every person I've ever talked to who has a business and has chronic illness this is usually the main imposter feeling. I don't know why people are paying me for this. And it's that feeling because you're kind of thinking like I should be better, I should be doing better. But the moment you kind of release that I've had that experience to be where I'm like I'm whatever. Whoever's gonna call me is gonna call me, whoever's not gonna call me is not gonna call me, and then it's like the floodgates open.

Nikita Williams : 29:02

I'm like are you serious? Are you serious?

Bre Clark: 29:06

What is that? Yeah, I don't know. There's no name. I don't know if there's a name for it, If there is message in a lot of us know. I don't know if there's a name for it, but I just I've seen it happen, not only in my lives, but other people like. Luckily, in the short time I've been on this earth, I've seen it happen. It's happened in my life three different times. I mean, we struggled to have our child and I started blaming myself, saying you know what, maybe it's because I'm not gonna be a good mom. That's how deep my imposter syndrome was. It wasn't just in the corporate world, it was in every facet of my life. Maybe I'm just not gonna be a good mom and that's why I can't have one, because we lost our first and the moment I left, it went and went back to work. Way before this, you know, I went back to work. I went to Spokane, washington, to be a reporter there. The moment I stopped worrying about it, we had, we had one and the doctor said I wouldn't be able to have one. They say you're not healthy enough, something's not quite right, you're not gonna be able to have one. And here we are. We had one. You know you're on number two, and now I'm on number two, so Things happen you know things, things don't always work out. I mean because obviously I had to go through the loss of a child to get to my child. Obviously I had to go through my mother being sick to get to. You know, being a 19 year old successful in college, you know there's a lot, that life is messy and you're gonna have all this stuff that happens. But don't let those things make you think that it's you You're failing in some way, that you're lacking in some way, because that's not the case.

Nikita Williams : 30:45

Yeah.

Bre Clark: 30:47

So such a good, good message. So if someone's listening right now and they're thinking how do I know that I've gone down the pit of imposter syndrome, like I know, like how can they identify some things about themselves without judgment? Because I like to say we all got stuff and this isn't an episode to necessarily be like oh, so you've got it. Like another label, more of like an acknowledgement, yeah, of being like oh, that's what I'm dealing with, versus like, oh, that's what I'm dealing Like. What are some of the things that they can think about? Yeah, so we talked about the, the questions that we ask ourselves, like who am I? Why would they hire me? Why am I here? You know, what do they see me to do this? Can I really do this? You know, am I this great person that they think I am? Whatever positive thing that someone has labeled on you and you think I'm not that. They think I'm that, but I'm not that, I'm not good. You know, that's when you start to say, okay, where are these thoughts? There was a very much imposter thoughts. But also when it comes to Comparison, if you find yourself comparing yourself to other people, not just on social media, because we do a lot of that, but if you find yourself comparing and you think I did a good job, but I didn't do that as good as someone so, and because of that I'm not rated this at all. If it's a very black and white, oh, I can do you like. We can all say I can do better. Yeah but if that I can do better is I'm just not good at it because I'm not at this level yet. That's imposter syndrome. Right, you did put a book out there. It might not have as many sales, as you know Oprah's book, but Oprah's Oprah, you know. So you can't say, hey, it's not there, so I'm not an author. You wrote a book, oh, so you're an author. Right, it's that simple. So if you start having those thoughts, the thoughts of who am I, and then the thoughts of comparison that invalidate you completely, you're dealing with imposter syndrome. Also, if you're working yourself to the point of burnout and this is not just at work but also at home If you're doing trying to do everything all at once, all on your own, because you feel like you have to, or that says something about you as a person, you were dealing with imposter syndrome, right or close to it. And so I tell people to look at these things, and the best way to identify those things is to write them down, because you're gonna forget about them or your brain is gonna, you know, distract you. Because that's the tricky thing about imposter syndrome. I say we have to unmask it all the time, because it's your brain tries to mask it, right, because you, at the core, none of us want to be incompetent, none of us want to feel like we're fake or that we're not good, right. But your brain starts to try and mask it when you start to dissect those things. So I tell people to write it down, write everything down, write all those thoughts down, and when you start to look at them and you identify and you agree and you say, okay, yeah, this is probably imposter syndrome, immediately start writing the opposite of those thoughts Facts and proof that disprove those thoughts that you're having. Yeah, it's like, oh, I'm not as sick as so and so, so, maybe I don't really have this thing. No, you have a diagnosis from your doctor. Yeah, matter how that manifested in them, you have a diagnosis, right. Or you are in pain. Your pain may not keep you at home in bed, but you are in pain. Yeah, right, something is going on. So you write the opposite of those. You know those things and the proof that validate hey, I am who I say I am, this is what it is. And then you find community and you take those things to community, someone you can trust, that you know isn't just going to Be a yes man for you, but it's really gonna sit with you and support you in a loving way, yeah, and say, hey, you're right. And let me add some of these other things that I've noticed that you forgot about to that list and that is how you identify it and move past it. You know, at the same time, it all has to happen together because if you do just kind of one piece and you walk away from it, your brain and the distractions of life are gonna let you do that full process. It is work, it is a lot of work to move past it, but it is possible.

Nikita Williams : 35:36

Yeah yeah, you broke down that in such a beautiful way. I'm gonna share something super vulnerable here in a second.

Bre Clark: 35:43

But the writing down and then Like to sit within and acknowledge it right, like, acknowledge it, not judge it, just acknowledge it, work with it and then to bring it to community is such a powerful Three-part system of that. I think it's such a great way To help you find the evidence to disprove those, because their lies really what we're saying is Like imposter syndrome is a lie. It's all of the lies our brain is trying to tell us About ourselves from the negative point of view, because our brain really is Often trying to save us, keep us safe, and keeping us safe might mean Staying smaller, not being seen, working harder so that no one actually sees what you're doing. All these things, right, and it's interesting. I have one sticky little imposter thought recently and it's been like my husband's been Really working with me and it's because of society. I think it's more because of society and also social media and also being a woman of color, because of the way we Often are spoken about, what we're perceived about, and I'm always like, one of my biggest imposter syndrome thoughts and I'm constantly working evidence for is am I black enough? I know that's the most ridiculous thing, right. Am I black enough? My husband's like um, he's a jokester. He's like Does your birth certificate say you're black? I think you are like like this is there isn't a like a scale of what is black and what's not black? Like you are black, like that's what it is, and I find it so Fascinating how the brain does it. But I've realized the reason. The what brain does it for me is Because it's this idea that I've put myself in this comparison, right, this comparison of what a successful Black person, black woman, would be doing. And so in my measurement of that, I'm Looking at it that way, like, oh well, I'm not quite there yet, or I'm not that much into the black culture or whatever, like some crazy stuff. So I've been really working on the evidence of being like how am I black Sounds so silly. When you write it down, you're like uh, cuz I am. What does that even mean? Like your brain starts thinking. For me it's been like the I'm in the process of like identifying like you. This doesn't even make sense why you're even asking this question.

Nikita Williams : 38:12

It's foolery, it's fullery, but it's powerful when you can have that with yourself right, like when you can give yourself that permission to go there.

Bre Clark: 38:22

I don't know, do you have any like thoughts or imposter thoughts that you're like, come on, that was ridiculous. Oh, no, exactly what you just said is a thought that I had it for a long time when you said that and I was like, oh, reading my mail when I was called to be the main anchor. I was called to be a main anchor in a predominantly white state. Like, honestly, I Think 2% is their African-American in the entire state, right, so I was called to be the state this state has. They had never had an African-American anchor Ever in the history of the state and this is 2015. Wow, whoa, whoa. 2015 is when I was their weekend anchor. I left and came back and 2020, in the middle of the pandemic, when all this race stuff is happening, oh my gosh. I was called to be their first African-American anchor and I have had a lot of privilege in my life and I've been having to to tell people. I recognize that I have privilege but because of that privilege, sometimes I feel like I don't have the right to represent a whole social group as an American. So that was hard. Being there because I had thoughts was like who am I to sit up here in this state where people have never really seen anyone who's looked like me? Who am I to represent that group to them? Right, am I representing it the right way? Am I handling some of these news articles that we're reporting on about? You know these, you know protests and stuff Am I representing them the right way? Am I doing my race of justice? Am I being fair? Should I even be able to talk about this like? Those were a lot of thoughts that I was having on a daily basis and Then also having questions for my my you know co-workers that it's like do I answer this, do I not answer this? Yeah, and then getting hate mail and wondering should I share this or not? You know, am I black enough to say that this is racism against me, you know? And so that was what I was dealing with. It's like, oh, okay, like, and so those battles happened every I will say every day for a long while and I Finally had that stop when I had this thought. Someone had written into the station, said it was very offensive to have someone like me on television, and I wrestled with and it wasn't the first one. It was just the first one that was very blatant and I do not think it's okay that you have this woman on television, wow, and I wrestled with the pressure to share it and I was talking to my producer. I shared it with my husband, my very white husband. I said this is, and he was furious, he was angry and he said no, you need to let people know that this is the cat you know he's like. Enough is enough. Like you've been sending this and you have people around you who are saying that racism doesn't exist and you're getting these type of emails. You need to, you know, reveal that this is the case. And I thought no, they're gonna think that I'm lying.

Nikita Williams : 41:34

They're gonna think that I made this up.

Bre Clark: 41:36

They're gonna think that this is a big deal. They're gonna think that I read it wrong, all this kind of stuff, and so I almost didn't post it. And so I said you know what, I'm gonna take this as an opportunity instead, instead of just putting it out there on social media, to thank All of the people in this community who have sent me flowers, who have sent me cards, who have welcomed me to their state, and Say and explain that the only reason I was able to go home that night without falling apart and quitting Was because of the support I had got from the community. And this is what was said to me. I put that out there and I was expecting, you know, a couple of likes, you know, maybe. So I was expecting a lot of backlash and to just move on. It got hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of people Responding to it saying no, we love you, we think you're great. A lot of African-Americans telling me we're so happy that you're here in the state representing us, because we have it half that, thank you. You know, my daughter watches you every day. She's biracial and she finally, you know, feels like she has some of it. You know, she can see just all those types of things with letters and flowers and all this kind of stuff, and I finally had to look at myself and say this is the proof. Right here, all these people who saying, yes, you represent us, yes, you look up like us. Yes, you're needed here because we haven't had it that I was able to use to stop that lie, because there's no such thing as black enough. Right, we come in so many colors and shades and everything. Many, we all sound different and come from different parts of this country. You know, that's something that, yeah, I've had to deal with. So my long way of saying I agree with you and I feel the struggle, oh, wow, well, I am so glad this is okay.

Nikita Williams : 43:30

So this is an example of community. Yeah, right here, bursting up some of these lies and this imposter syndrome.

Bre Clark: 43:37

Like, yeah, I think it's, it's real and I don't think admitting or sharing these stories makes anyone less Anything. If anything, it gives someone else permission to admit or to see that, oh, I kind of view myself in a certain way and it's not necessarily the most positive way and I'm okay with Hopefully being seen in a positive way in the future with myself. Like you were saying earlier, giving yourself that compassion and that self-care, it's okay. It's okay, totally okay.

Nikita Williams : 44:15

So good. Well, now that I've been buried, my soul, and so did you um.

Bre Clark: 44:22

I.

Nikita Williams : 44:23

Yeah, yeah, I was like thinking um, there was something that you said earlier and wanted to ask you about, which was I?

Bre Clark: 44:30

Finds imposter syndrome is kind of sneaky because sometimes it's not necessarily what you're thinking, but it's something that you're doing. That's kind of keeping you hidden, so it like holds you. Like you you don't even realize you're hiding. I find that with my clients I'll ask them and they'll be like oh, I don't, I don't think I even realized I was doing that. In what ways can you be hiding In your life or personal life when you are dealing with imposter syndrome unbeknownst to yourself? Yeah, isolation and I don't mean complete isolation, I don't mean you know, you don't talk to anybody or anything like that when you are scared to share you know with other people. When you hear someone like right now, like how we just shared a moment in the past, I probably would have just let you share that and say, oh, if I share mine, mine isn't as Mine isn't as valid as what she just said. You know that might have been something that that I would say or do or are withhold, you know, and Not engaging in community wholeheartedly because you're worried someone's gonna see you right. For a long time I didn't share it myself with other people. It was like hey, my husband, that's all I need. It's just us, you know, and I had friends, but they were more of Surface level friendships. They didn't go deep, we didn't talk about anything. My business was my business and I wasn't gonna share anything with anybody, which is very prevalent in the African-American. Yes, you know, no, no, show your business right, because the last thing I know you, how many, how many mama moments that we have like how did you go out there and tell you, telling our business, oh, yes, yes, yes, but what's been waiting to happen, though that was, that was it. But and I agree to some extent you don't share everything. No one keeps it 100, no matter how they say that they do, because there are certain things that just people don't need to know, that, that that is none of their business. But there are some things with people that you can trust that you do need to share those things because it's not fair, otherwise you're not really doing community Otherwise. So if you see yourself isolating and not actually engaging with community, it's probably because You're dealing with imposter syndrome, and that's something that you would probably do is just kind of stray away from community and not share. The other thing is that people are being so arrogant like their customers and they are being absolute celebrities, in fact, I think, everyday. What you'll also probably do is twist. When you have those moments with people and you're going through the facts, you will twist those back to validate the lies that you're telling yourself to be true. So it's like, oh, your thought might be, hey, the only reason they gave me this promotion is because they like me, and your combat to that is well, but I've put in the work. Right. Your mind will twist that new confirmation that you have that you are not an imposter and say, yeah, but you didn't put in that much work. Or you didn't put in as much work as so and so right. Or they didn't even look at that, so they didn't make an informed decision, those types of things right. You will try and twist and go back to that lie because your brain has created it. You've been telling yourself that lie for so long that your brain can't let go of it because you've tricked yourself into believing it protects you. A lot of people believe that their imposter syndrome is the reason that they're successful. Right, for me. I thought that for the longest time I'm like, hey, I'm successful because I make myself do these things. I make myself be Bre Clark, right, instead of realizing I'm Bre Clark all the time. Right, the Bre Clark that people are seeing is not a fake Bre Clark, right, it's the best 110% that Bre Clark can be, but Bre Clark cannot be 110% all the time. That's burnout, right, and so that is what you'll do when you have imposter syndrome. You'll isolate, you'll twist those thoughts that you have and you'll just find a way to keep yourself in that bubble because there's this thought that I'm successful. I've been doing it this way for so long. Right, it's obviously working for me. You know, when it's not, you're causing yourself depression, you're causing yourself anxiety, you're causing yourself illness. When you don't address imposter syndrome, there's a lot of stake that people just don't realize.

Nikita Williams : 49:23

Yeah, our thoughts y'all. They have so much power over our bodies and how we respond to them.

Bre Clark: 49:31

Like, if you've ever read the book the Body Takes the Blow, it's an amazing book. It's about trauma and like negative thinking and how it literally affects and creates these symptoms that we all deal with. You know, depression, certain chronic illnesses. It triggers different diagnoses, things that were dormant then become not dormant. Like all of these things, a lot of it is systematic from what our thoughts are doing in our head and how it affects our body, and so you're so right, those thoughts, they're hard to identify, especially if they're sneaky. So that's why I wanted to ask that question and be like what would you be doing if you were like I don't have imposter syndrome, I'm fine. This is what it could look like, okay, yeah, yeah, it definitely could look like those things, yes, yeah. And I think it's interesting too, because when you were talking about the isolating especially for my chronic illness warriors and also like the turning the thoughts, especially if you're an entrepreneur, there is that's a very common one that I'm guilty of and I see my clients go through which is the thinking of they don't realize it's imposter syndrome. When they're comparing, someone says, oh, you did such a good job. I can't believe, like some of my clients recently just started their own podcast and they've had a lot of things going on and I'm like it's amazing that you're doing this, it's so great that you're doing this.

Nikita Williams : 50:58

And then they eternalize and say well, it's not as good as so-and-so. And I just started and I'm like do you know how hard this is for just a normal person to do? Like it's amazing.

Bre Clark: 51:10

But that in itself is the comparison often comes into, like an able-bodied person who doesn't have a chronic illness or disability that we know of. We compare to what we believe the normal person would have been able to accomplish if they didn't have chronic illness, and it's never the case. It's just a lie. So I appreciate you sharing that, because I definitely wanted them to have an idea of like, oh, I kind of do do that and now I know why. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yes. So powerful.

Nikita Williams : 51:43

So thank you for sharing all of this information about imposter syndrome. If someone were listening to this, what would you want them to know?

Bre Clark: 51:53

Yeah, oh gosh, there's a lot I would want to know. That's like a whole other episode of what things I wish. What you didn't know. Oprah has a book. So much of that of things. I'm sure I'm gonna get it wrong, so never mind. But basically, what I would tell people is it's just to be kind to yourself, to show yourself that love and that compassion is the most important thing. And I'm not saying it in a very superficial way like, oh, love yourself, because that's hard when you're living in a world that is telling you that there's something wrong with you every step of the way, that you need to be better, you need to be richer, you need to be better, you need to be smarter, you need to be lighter these things that is what the message is that people are coming against. And when you're dealing with imposter syndrome, that's even more so, because not only is the world bullying you, you're bullying yourself, and the biggest way to combat that is to find self-compassion, self-love, and that starts from within. You can do all these tricks that I'm telling you. You can write things down, you can get in community, you can identify what's going on, you can try and have more grace, but you have to find that love and self-worth deep, deep down within and hold on to that. Self-love starts from within and that's not going to come from anywhere else. And for some people listening, I know that that's hard, because for some people they don't feel like they're worthy of that love. They haven't seen it. So they're like well, what do you mean? What does that look like? And that starts with just the thoughts that you have, what you tell yourself. Tell yourself that I'm loved, that I'm worthy, that I'm a good person, I'm a good mom, I'm a good friend, I'm a good wife. Saying those things, even when you don't believe they're true, does something in your brain. It does something in your heart. That helps it be easier to say that next day. And the more that you say it, the more you say it in the mirror. And I know people are like well, that's odd, it's awkward, it's supposed to be awkward, it's supposed to be, yeah, if it's very easy. You don't have imposter syndrome and none of that. What I said pertains to you. So it's going to be hard and it's going to feel awkward. But you got to look in the mirror, you got to look yourself in the eye and you got to say I love myself, I'm good enough, I have done the things, and even if I don't do another thing, my life has value. Even if I don't do anything else, today, the fact that I am breathing is adding value to this world, because one thing that I have learned and I want people to know is that there's that one person that you least expect they mean the world to that you probably don't even talk to you every day. You haven't talked to them in a year or two years or whatever and you mean the world to them, and without you, the world wouldn't be the same for them. It just wouldn't. The thought of you is very important to someone that you least expect. It is not your husband, it is not your son or your daughter. They love you too, and they'd be devastated, but there is someone else who loves just as much that needs just the essence of you walking around, and it has nothing to do with any of your work or the things that you've put out into this world. Your doing does not matter. Your being is what matters to them most.

Nikita Williams : 55:42

Oh girl, you had me goosebumps all through this.

Bre Clark: 55:46

I'm like trying not to cry because I'm thinking of people who have like what you said or like they said, and I'm like what did? What did I do? And they're like I can't explain it. And it is what you're saying, it had nothing to do with the doings, about the being, and I preach that all day long to my clients. But hearing someone else say that is like whoo. It's goosebumps for me, like it's such a good point to remember. I so appreciate you saying that, because I think we all need to be reminded that, yeah, it's not the doing. We focus so much on the doing in the world. That's important, but not as important as being who we are, like just being so, so powerful. It does feel weird If you have a here's a little tip for anyone who's listening Like I cannot talk to myself like that. Put on Mary J Blythe song gorgeous, oh, yes and just stand in the mirror and dance and listen to her say it for you until you can use the words to say it for you, and you will feel I love that song. It's the song that really helped me through a lot of life, but she has a line in there that's just like before I put on makeup before I even wash my face, brush my teeth. I'm looking in that mirror and I'm just saying good morning, gorgeous, and I just love it. I just love it. Yeah, ooh, I like that.

Nikita Williams : 57:10

So try that If saying the words I love you you are worthy is weird to yourself.

Bre Clark: 57:17

Yeah, maybe music will help. Yes, I agree. Stamble with approval.

Nikita Williams : 57:23

Well, thank you so, so very much for coming on the show. Please tell us how we can connect and learn more about your mission on helping others to overcome identify and kind of just move through imposter syndrome.

Bre Clark: 57:40

Yeah, ok, for all of you that haven't run off who are still here with me, you can find all of my information. So we have two seasons of my show, the Real Deal with Bre Clark. You can find that on YouTube. It's exclusively there and that's YouTube. If you do like a backslash, bre Clark TV, bre with 1E, that's where you can find me. And we have just people just like myself who are navigating imposter syndrome and you would just never think or know that they're dealing with that. I mean, we have a guy on there who has a show on Disney Plus Nat Geo and he has dealt with that and still does in some way. So I would really have you able to go check it out. There's also my website and that's brecklarktvcom, where you can find more about the episodes. There's some merchandise there, because I'm really into the accessories. That proclaims you are the real deal, because I really believe that it's not just something that you say, it's something that you live out and you tell yourself. So I am the Real Deal all day long. So you can find all that on my website. And then Instagram is where I live most of my life and you can find a lot more there, a lot more about me and my husband and my son. And just some tips and some words of affirmation every once in a while on Instagram. And that's also BricklarkTV with 1E.

Nikita Williams : 59:02

Love it, thank you, thank you again. We'll have all of that in the show notes. We'll talk about it in the intro too. Just so thankful for you today. Thank you for sharing this space with me. That's a wrap, y'all. Thanks for tuning in to Crafted to Thrive, the podcast that helps entrepreneurs with chronic illness to thrive and build a holistic business and life. Check out our website at craftedtothrivecom for this episode show notes and all the gifts and goodies. Connect with me on Instagram at thrivewithmikita for more tips and behind the scenes and more. Tap me to share what you loved about this episode and I'll feature you on an upcoming episode. So until next time, remember, yes, you are crafted to thrive.