Mareike Wiening: 'Reveal' Offers Jazz Rhythms of Hope

(This transcript has been edited for clarity.)

LP: I've spent a significant amount of time over the last few days not only with the new record but also revisiting "Future Memories." Taken together, these two records allow the listener to appreciate different facets of your compositional toolkit, as well as the evolution of the quintet. It's truly wonderful work.

Mareike Wiening: Thank you. I appreciate that.

LP: Am I correct in understanding from your biography that drums were not your first instrument, perhaps not even your second?

Mareike Wiening: Exactly, yeah. I started off playing the piano at the age of five, focusing mainly on classical piano and participating in a lot of competitions. In Germany, it's quite common for kids who are serious about music to do this. Then, I started playing the flute when I was ten, and I also sang in a choir, receiving voice lessons there. I started playing drums when I was fifteen, so it was quite late.

LP: Do you think starting late or having so much other musical education before picking up drums has been beneficial?

Mareike Wiening: Definitely. I could already read music pretty well because of the piano. This skill, along with a broad musical understanding and listening within the band, helped me grasp how a tune is organized and what its form is.

LP: Could you talk a bit about the world of competitions, especially for young students in Germany?

Mareike Wiening: It's really different. I was proficient in piano, knew how to practice, and was also quite good at memorizing music, which is crucial for classical music. My teacher encouraged me to participate in competitions, a process starting in your local area or city, then moving to the state level, and potentially to a national level across Germany.

My piano teacher had expected me to pursue piano studies, which I never wanted, but he pushed me towards these competitions and to practice a lot of classical music. Although I was good at memorizing music, I never really enjoyed it. It was always very stressful, and I didn't like being on stage. This kind of fear never occurred to me with drums.

Being on stage with drums felt completely different from the beginning. The classical world was super competitive, and for me, it was never really enjoyable.

LP: It seems like an odd paradigm, placing music and arts within a competitive context, especially for children.

Mareike Wiening: It feels like you miss the whole point of making music.

LP: You mentioned choir participation as part of your musical development. Do you ever imagine incorporating vocals into your jazz work?

Mareike Wiening: Yes, and I have actually written for vocals before. The problem for me lies with the lyrics. I feel quite challenged when it comes to writing words, whether it's an essay, a booking email, or anything similar. So, lyrics represent a world of words that I find hard to access. However, I have composed for singers before, but without lyrics.

LP: So, you've written melodies and vocal parts that someone else could potentially add lyrics to?

Mareike Wiening: Yes, I tend to work more with singers who also sing without lyrics.

LP: Interesting, that's neat. At 15, you start playing drums. How did it happen that, after almost a decade of musical education and living a musical life, you were drawn to the drums?

Mareike Wiening: It was a mix of different coincidences. The son of my piano teacher was a drummer. Although I was studying classical music with him, he was actually a jazz piano player. Despite my teenage aversion to jazz, he always invited me to his concerts. The only aspect I found interesting was the drummer, who played with some of the best from Munich or southern Germany.

His son showed me a bit about drumming, and all of this happened within two or three months. At that time, I started learning French as my first foreign language and was offered to participate in a French exchange program. My French exchange student was a drummer and lived in the countryside. After school, we'd go to his place, and the only thing we did was play Nickelback on the drums.

He taught me a lot. When I returned to Germany, I decided I needed a drum set. My brother's friend was selling his, so I bought it, started teaching myself, and then took lessons.

LP: That's incredible. What did your teachers and family think of this shift?

Mareike Wiening: My teacher was surprised but supportive, especially as I started enjoying jazz. My parents, particularly my mom, were also surprised. My twin brother and I were always encouraged to pursue our passions. Seeing my enthusiasm for drums, she was supportive, albeit curious to see where it would lead. At that time, I was taking private lessons in piano and flute, playing drums, singing in a choir, and being involved in various other activities. It was quite busy, so perhaps she thought it was just a phase, but it became increasingly serious.

LP: Can you improvise on the piano or flute?

Mareike Wiening: No.

LP: And is that because of the classical training?

Mareike Wiening: I believe so. I do compose on the piano, but only there.

LP: Regarding your compositional work, I've read remarks where you've mentioned not considering yourself a composer.

Mareike Wiening: It might be due to my background. When I studied drums for my bachelor's degree at a university in Germany, I was always interested in composing. However, accessing theory and harmony, especially in jazz, was challenging. This is common for drummers and singers because we don't engage with it daily.

I felt like I found a backdoor into composing through my studies with Stefon Harris during my master's in New York. He has a unique concept of composing and writing music based on feelings, gestures, and images. This approach made total sense to me, as music is about conveying emotions and visions to the listener.

LP: It's a fascinating approach, making the concept of being a composer accessible to those not deeply versed in theory.

Mareike Wiening: I still write in traditional forms because of the music I enjoy listening to. Now, with a commission to write for a symphony orchestra, I'm analyzing traditional forms more deeply.

LP: It sounds like a symphony wouldn't appreciate improvisational elements as much, given the structure and preparation involved.

Mareike Wiening: Absolutely. Influences like Brian Blade and Elvin Jones have been significant for me, alongside Tony Williams and, at one point, Buddy Rich. More recently, Dave Weckl was also a notable influence.

LP: And the drummer from Nickelback played a part in your journey! (laughter)

Mareike Wiening: Exactly, though I don't remember his name. (laughter)

LP: It's interesting to see the influence of Brian Blade in your work, especially in the expressiveness of your playing.

Mareike Wiening: It's incredible what he adds to the music; always perfect.

LP: The influence of Buddy Rich is also evident in your dynamic snare work.

Mareike Wiening: Buddy Rich's technique fascinated me. As a left-hander, I initially used the matched grip but switched to the traditional grip with my teacher's guidance. Buddy Rich, with his mastery of snare drum technique, was a significant influence.

LP: Do you write your drum parts in advance?

Mareike Wiening: No. There's one song, "Misconception," on the first record, "Metropolis Paradise." That's the only song where I did that, but other than that, it's the last thing I'm thinking about. Sometimes I don't even know what to play.

LP: Something really interesting about your records is the sound quality. I put on "Future Memories" with fresh ears this morning. The sound field—you could hear the separation—was a beautiful listening experience. The record just sounded so good.

Mareike Wiening: That's great. Usually, I don't really know anything about microphones and stuff like that. I usually go for a really good studio that I know somehow and just trust.

LP: It might be the placement in the room as much as, or more than, a specific engineer. Or the engineer comes with the room you like.

Mareike Wiening: Yeah, and usually, it's an engineer of the studio, someone who knows the studio and who knows the microphones. That's very important too.

LP: Talk to me, if you will, about "Reveal," because as I was reading some of the material around the record, it sounds like there's an element of speaking to the artist's role in this time. What was the impulse to have that point of view with your music?

Mareike Wiening: That was really the only thing I had left at that time, just because there were a lot of depressing incidences. And my mother-in-law got cancer and she died within six months. So there were a lot of private incidents, and with world economics and war so close to Europe, there was just so much negative stuff going on that I was feeling I was going crazy looking for some hope. And it was really every minute. We had to take care of my mother-in-law. I was really trying to sit at the piano and find some hope or just like a bright future somehow by composing this music.

LP: Did it help?

Mareike Wiening: Yeah. It totally helped. I don't know what I would have done if I hadn't done this, actually.

LP: It's interesting that you used the word "light" in a different context because Dave Douglas referred to your music as light. He went out of his way to say not light in terms of being insubstantial or not having gravitas, but light in terms of how it moves and how nimble and lively the music can be. I thought that was a really profound insight into the music because, as I was listening, especially to the tracks on the new record on "Reveal," that is such a strong element, this sort of feeling of ease of movement.

Mareike Wiening: Yeah, one would think that the music would have gotten very depressive and dark in some way, right? But I was really trying not to because then everything was already depressive and dark. The music was the only element where I could find some light and hope. So that was very important for me.

LP: What's the role of the longevity of your quintet? It's rare to have the luxury of being able to keep a group together that long.

Mareike Wiening: For me, it's really my baby. Maybe that's why I also don't see myself as a composer because I can't sit down and just say, okay, now I'm going to compose a piece of music, and this is going to be like this. I need my band in my head, or like the sound, especially the sound of Rich playing and also the interaction between guitar and piano. And when I have them in my head, it's much easier for me to express my vision or my feelings into something that's going to be a piece eventually. Another thing that maybe doesn't define me as a typical composer is that I trust them so much. We've known each other for nine years and have been playing for nine years. I trust them, even if there is a mistake in the notes or even if something does not sound perfect. I don't really care because I trust them and they will have a suggestion or they will have a better idea, something like that. People, I don't know. It's okay, giving them my music itself; I'm not sure if I want to do that to open myself up like this.

LP: It's interesting that you singled out the guitar and the piano interplay because one of the things that really stood out for me was. You have two different online videos of "The Girl by the Window" with different piano players in each version. What struck me was there's a middle-end passage where the guitar and piano interplay is so sensitive and locked in, but also how different the two versions are. Putting a different pianist on that bench really changed the music a lot. It was very interesting to hear side by side.

Mareike Wiening: Yeah, I think so too. With Glenn, every note that he chooses is chosen by him; it's not random. Every note within this chord, within the voicing, is thought out. And it's very special about him, I think.

LP: Given your love for the quintet format and how you are still expanding it, are there other configurations or formats that are attractive to you? Would you do a drum-saxophone duo? Would you do a drum-only album? What other configurations are attractive to you?

Mareike Wiening: I have a lot of ideas, even for the third album. I was thinking maybe I should do something else. Since I'm back in Germany and I also teach in Switzerland, there are a lot of great musicians here. But this is my quintet; it's like my family, and the sound is unique. I want to keep them together. So, if I expand, I think I would add people like Dave. I even had the idea, now studying symphony and the like strings and stuff, to add a string player or a string quartet. Alex just did a project with a string quartet, which I really liked. So something like that, but it's going to expand and be more expensive and more people. And because I can't, I need the quintet somehow still. Maybe eventually, it's going to change, but...

LP: When you perform live, are your dates with the quintet confined to the US? And when you're playing in Europe, who are you playing with?

Mareike Wiening: I try to bring my quintet one or two times a year to Germany or Europe. So they were coming in November, and then we had another piano player because Glenn became very busy. He, like now, has become a dad, and he also plays with a lot of people in New York. So it's really hard to catch him for two weeks or something like that to go on tour. So usually, then I get a German piano player, and now they're coming back in April. And also, then we are shifting the bass position right now. So we have different players on the tour. We'll see what's happening. But yeah, also Glenn unfortunately won't make it. So usually when I go to New York, we play the five of us, but when they come to Europe, it's mostly really Rich and Alex coming. Now, we are changing some bass positions and trying out new people.

LP: Do you have the next project in your sights yet?

Mareike Wiening: Yeah, I mean, I'm also a side woman, so I'm playing in a lot of different projects, and that's always going busy. And as I said, the symphony project is time-consuming. And I just started a new project with a guitar player from Finland, which is exciting. So yeah, there's a lot of interesting, different musical projects going on.

LP: Would you tell me a little bit about the importance of being an educator in what you do?

Mareike Wiening: So I teach in Zurich at the university there. We have three drum teachers, which is great because you really can exchange ideas and also problems you can talk about. Sometimes we do group classes, which is really important, but also the one-on-one lessons. For me, it's really reflecting what I'm playing in a way and also trying to solve problems, but also getting to know a lot of new music, which is super exciting because every scene in Europe is really different. I want to get to know the Swiss scene more and their influences, as well as the generations, like younger people, who are more interested in something else than I was back in the day. So that's cool.

LP: There's so much interesting music coming out of Germany and Switzerland right now. I speak to a lot of artists who are working in what I call an electro-acoustic realm, still playing jazz or improvised music but bringing in elements of beats, sampling, or ambient music. Are you primarily interested in acoustic forms, or do you ever play around with electronics?

Mareike Wiening: I just had this talk with someone else in Switzerland with a writer, and yeah, it's super interesting, especially in Zurich. There are a lot of influences from electronic music these days. I even have some samplers, and I was even thinking of getting into this direction because, in the last couple of months, I got some requests for playing solo shows, and for that, it would be really interesting to do. But at the same time, it's a totally different world, right? A new world that I would have to study, and if I have time to study, then I'd rather study composition. So, I'm leaving that to the side, maybe in a couple of years or so.

LP: I've had this conversation with other artists on this podcast, but my musical hero is McCoy Tyner. He was very similar in an era where all of his contemporaries explored electric, he never went electric. His innovations were much more around composing, arranging, and bringing in African and Eastern instrumentation. There's not a note of electric piano on his records. It's fascinating, especially in that era. But there were other avenues to explore.

Mareike Wiening: Yeah, totally. In a way, I really want to be a composer, and there's still so much to learn. And I actually still take private lessons in composing. Now, with the orchestra, I just spent a day studying the harp. It's super interesting. For myself, there's still so much to learn and also so much music to learn. I like new music, like contemporary new music, especially from Eastern Europe. Yeah, it's going to fill up some years for sure.

LP: Are you able to listen to music? Because I've talked to some artists who are careful about what they let in so as not to steal an idea or just inadvertently, I'm not sure I can articulate exactly well what that mindset is. Still, I've definitely heard from some artists that they keep music out sometimes.

Mareike Wiening: Yeah. I love to listen to music and go to concerts because, in a way, I get inspired. And maybe it's also because I always love to transcribe drum solos and grooves and stuff like that. That inspires me to check out new grooves or format those transcriptions into my stuff. I still really enjoy listening to music. But sometimes I come home and I just want to have silence. But in general, I go out to a lot of shows. It's also studying because when you go out to listen to music, you hear something new. I go to concerts where I'm learning, or I hope that I learn something or find something new that I can incorporate or develop, or maybe at the end, I say, okay, I didn't like it. At least I was there. I was trying to be open and learn something new. As long as you listen and you're open, you still learn. It's really important for me.

LP: Yeah. I hear that as a theme across a lot of what you do, whether it's the formal study or talking with other musicians or the students you work with; I would imagine a lot of that is in your work as a side woman as well when you get to be in these other contexts.

Mareike Wiening: Exactly. And it's also the fascinating part because I also get to play music that I usually wouldn't. Or I see some bands that I play with. There are some really great composers. So I get the music and try to play it. But then I also try to analyze it because it's a really good composition. I can also learn as a composer. That's really, yeah, I love it.

LP: Thank you so much for spending time with me today. I've enjoyed talking with you, and I love the music.

Mareike Wiening: Thank you for having me.