Andrea Spyros - Creating Community

Judy Oskam: 0:01

Welcome to Stories of Change and Creativity. I'm Judy Oskam a university professor, Gallup Strengths Coach and Tiny Habits Certified coach. On this podcast, we feature individuals who inspire, motivate and educate. A successful business-owner turned behavior change expert. Andrea Spyros says she never really fit the mold. She shares her story about her quest for creativity and community. I'm glad you could listen in on my conversation with Andy Spyros, Andrea Spyros.

: 0:38

I have been so excited to talk with you about your journey, and I really want our listeners to hear your story because you are a behavior change expert, a professional speaker, and a Tiny Habits certified coach. How did you get there and what was the journey? Can we start there and you and I have talked about this a little bit and I'm so excited.

Andrea Sypros : 1:01

Judy, thank you for having me I'm I love working with you in all capacities. So it's just a joy to talk to you here on your podcast. Um, I basically, my journey was messy. So a lot of, I don't have a lot of I don't, I don't have a huge arc of a hero's journey where, you know, I came from this terrible upbringing and then I was i surrounded by insurmountable odds and, you know , it's, it's much more mellow than that, but at the same time, my hurdles were hurdles for me. And, and I didn't always clear them so easily. And in this moment, I just realized that when I had to take the E we had to do hurdles, and that was like a major source of anxiety for me, that would, I would not get sleep the whole day. Like I just could never clear the hurdles. I was going to hit them with some leg or the other. I was afraid I was going to get injured. And now in this moment, I just want to tell you that that's kind of was like a foreshadowing of how I handled many of the challenges in my life. Um, that was kind of messy. I did hit the hurdle. I sometimes I did get hurt , but not, not, you know, in a way that really took me out for a long time. Uh , sometimes a few dark nights of the soul, but I guess I feel compelled to share that because so many people think, oh, you, or take me out, put someone you think is successful in you are a success, and you did that, but you are exceptional. And I can't do that. Or my hurdles aren't as big. And so if I am not doing that, then there must be something wrong with me. I shared those narratives along the way. And so I feel like my duty is to say I had a messy journey. It was not pretty. And , uh, I still, you know, have , have a modicum of success. So you have ,

Judy Oskam: 2:54

I think that's great because, because I think it's important for people to hear that and understand that you, you really have a blend of creativity and business skills. You're highly strategic. You had a , you know, we're a business owner and entrepreneur and talk about how you blend it, all of that and helped. And you're still, I see you still building community everywhere you go. And you share that.

Andrea Sypros : 3:22

Yeah. And I think community is , um , baked into me and I'm thinking it's probably because I felt kind of isolated and outsider when I was younger. I never felt like I fit in. I had friends. I mean, I , I can communicate, you know, and the things I was fairly shy and fairly introverted, which people find fascinating about me because when they see me today, they think you must be the life of the party. You must be, you know, a million friends and know everybody, and that's not true. I had to work at some skills to overcome my shyness and to learn the skills of connecting with people and to manage my own anxiety. So I had a , basically it started very early where I had an engineer dad and an artist teacher mom. So I had both those blends in my life. And at a very early age though, I decided I did what a lot of kids do. I decided I wasn't a very good artist because I compared myself like in second grade to my mom and I could clearly see, I was not as good as my mom. Therefore, I was not a good artist. Right. So the coping strategy of a little kid, and so I did art, but I never considered myself an artist. I , um, I went to business school because I had no idea what I wanted to do. I had a brother who just was focused on filmmaking and he had this passion and I thought, oh , there's something wrong with me. I don't know what I want to do, but everything seems to be business. So no matter what I want to do, ultimately when I figure it out, it feels like everything's business. So I might as well go to business school. So that's what I did. And I never felt like I fit in a business school either. I certainly had friends and things like that, but all my friends were in art school. And, and so I traveled in this art school crowd. I looked like an art school student, but I was doing the work of a business school student in marketing and , uh , you know, accounting and corporate strategy and all those things I put on my constrained outfit to interview for internships. And I can remember sitting in a meeting with, I think it was like a advertising agency that did car ads. And I just remember thinking, as I'm doing this interview, I don't see myself fitting here, but I'm trying my hardest to get this job. And something inside me was like, this is that right. And, and for me in that moment, I realized I'd always done what my intuition told me to do. So, and what , what, what the , my sense feeling told me to do, I didn't have the label of intuition, but I knew that there was a sense inside me that said yes or no. And I was able in that moment to kind of track it back in one of those split seconds, see your life flash before your eyes type moments, but backwards. I, all of a sudden saw the links of all the times where I trusted this intuitive piece , even though I didn't have the language back then and realized like this was not going to be a fit for me. Of course, I didn't get the job. They gracefully declined my, my services. And I was so relieved. Um, but that was kind of the beginning of the blend. It wasn't even fully formed together. Like I had these art school students, I was in business school. They still were fairly separate parts of me and parts of my life up until even the point where I graduated and my business school colleagues were wondering what I was doing there because they thought it was an art school, even though I was in every single one of their classes. I don't know when they had thought I had time to go to art school. Um, but really that was kind of the beginning where I knew I had to start to pull things together. And the first time I did that was in my business, Handmade Galleries LA, which was a landmark brick and mortar 5,000 square foot store. Um, in Sherman Oaks, California, people still talk about it to this day. And so it was a store for artists. I rented space out to artists, but I ran it in a really smart business way. And , um, I ended up kind of creating this community around it, but all that was like, I only know what I did in hindsight. And I think that's very common for people.

Judy Oskam: 7:43

I think it is too. And I think too, if we, you know, we talk about your Gallup CliftonStrengths and you have strategic and your very top, so you naturally excelled in a lot of those business classes and you naturally went that direction, but you also use that to bring it back to really find your soul. Right. And isn't that what you did?

Andrea Sypros : 8:05

Yeah. I think what I did was use my strategic to , to , I, it was more like a lens where I had to, I had to shift it a little bit. So I think it was really comfortable in the position of focusing on the intellect. Right. I was very comfortable. I was like dominant hand thing. Like I had excelled, I had excelled in school. I got a lot of praise for excelling in school. That was a way that in my family, you know, I could check that box because you know, the, and get some validation and , and then, and it couldn't shine it at the art for whatever reason. My second grade, you know, decision. I could never shine it over there. But what I realized in hindsight was I shifted it a little bit and put it on to creative. So that was how I, that was how I kind of bridge the gap was. I said, well, I'm not an artist, but I am creative. And I bridged the two by specifically saying this phrase . And Judy, you'll appreciate this because you know, me, I am just now realizing this in this very moment. Like this is fresh, minty, fresh out , out of the fresh baked out of the oven that I , I branded myself as a creative problem solver, right? So there, I get my, I get the lens of my strategic on the smart side and the ideation bit , and I weave them together. And then I have an identity that my non-conscious mind can accept. Right. And people would ask me with the store, they would say, cause I had, you know, oh , maybe 150, 200 artists at any given time, renting out spaces , all sorts of jewelry, artists, painting artists, furniture artists. And then I brought in other things that were creative and funny and funky, although not necessarily handmade . And people would say to me, oh, what art do you do here? And I would stand there. And I first, I didn't have an answer. And then I would say, well, this store is my creative outlet like this. However, you see it put together how you see it merchandise, the curation of the content, the strategy of how we're marketing ourselves. That's, you know, that's my, my creative input to this. And, and that's the way that I was able to blend those two pieces.

Judy Oskam: 10:14

And now you've taken that and made your life a canvas in a sense to where you're then now what led you to the behavior change area? Because that is so important because it all meshes together.

Andrea Sypros : 10:28

Yes, exactly. And so along my path of , of blending the, the creative and the strategic , uh, and also I was really doing a lot of personal growth work. I think from a very early age, I was always interested in hand analysis and , uh, you know, all astrology and all, anything intuition, intuition. Right . But I never knew about intuition was so fascinating for as much as I, I mean, I think I was in my thirties. I mean, I knew what intuition was, but I never would apply it to myself in that way. And so I think for, for me , um, I was always doing personal growth, a lot of healing work, you know , excavating trying out new things like tapping or havening or NLP, all those things. I was doing a long my way to , cause I thought if I can make myself better, then it can make my world better and go beyond my limiting self-concept and , uh, you know, get rid of all the bad stuff and amplify all the good stuff. That's kind of how I thought about it. And, and so that naturally led to behavior change. Like I would ask myself questions, like, why am I not doing that thing that I know would be good for me to do? Or why am I doing this thing that I know is not good for me? Why do I keep doing it? And I think that when I really started asking that question is when, so in my business, I always had a unique understanding of trends, even though I didn't know, really, I would just know I go to a gift shop store , um, uh, it's uh , a trade show or trade show, trade show. I go to the trade show and I just know like leopard , uh , shabby chic, you know, I would just know intuitively right again, I would just stand futuristic and futuristic and it felt like a red carpet was rolling out in front of me. So it just felt like I would walk and the red carpet was just rolling, rolling, rolling. And every now and then the role would stop. And I wouldn't really know, but I just wait a little bit. And then I figured out a role , a role in the future. But then there was one point where I realized the carpet wasn't rolling anymore. And , um, I think that's when I got really keen to do the deeper, deeper work and figure out like, why wasn't it changing? And I don't even think I knew about tiny habits at that point. It was before BJ was doing those things. It's probably before 2000. Um, and I got really fascinated in that. And I started coaching people and doing healing work for people. So I did Reiki and EFT and a lot of other things for people kind of in a piecemeal way. And then I felt this intuitive. Yes. Which I then knew was an intuition. And I knew what the was a palpable sensation. I only have gotten it a few times and I never ignore it. So I have a palpable sensation in my chest to taking a specific program. And I knew I , I absolutely have no qualms about saying yes to whenever that happens. I mean, even if my mind will get in the way you listen, you listen to , as I listened, I listened to myself, but this particular sensation has only happened three times in my life. So it's one that I never questioned. I just do it. And that set me off on this trajectory to actually closing my store and then becoming a coach and a healer. And I decided, you know, that old adage, if you, you got to do something different in order to get something different. So my m-o is usually I linger. Like I linger a little longer in relationships with employees with, you know, cause I'm attached and I thought, Nope , do something different. Rip the band-aid off six months, we're going to close. Okay. That was the worst thing I ever did. I mean, I did it, I'm done with it. I made it through, but I thought, you know what? That advice isn't always that good because sometimes you have to acclimate, like I got the bends is what happened. Like if I were a diver, that's the equivalent of me going, you know what , everybody else spends five, 10 minutes at this depth and moves up and I'm just going to shoot to the surface. And so I did that and I really had this long dark night of and soul because, and it brings us back to the community piece. I had created a community in my store. I had created a community of artists. I had created a community of employees. I had created a community of, of customers. I saw people grow up in my store. I saw people grow up in my store. And when I when I ended my store, when I was closing, one of the women who was working for me, maybe she was 19 or 20. She said, oh, I used to come in here. And we , my dad, when he was, when , when I was three and used to talk to so-and-so and I was like, what are you talking about? And she was like, well, maybe you remember my dad. And she pulls up a picture of her dad cause he was an actor. And I said, oh my God, I completely remember your dad. And I completely remember you. And so she had grown up in the store and then come to work for me and come full circle. Um, and , and we had a , a great party where people came and shared memories and, and things like that. That's what kept my store going over this long period of time is that people felt like it was a community, not just retail therapy, but that they could come in and people would know them kind of like the cheers bar of retail gift stores, you know , and we had so many men in who would shop too and not to put all men in a bucket that they're not shoppers, but honestly, most gift stores have a predominantly female base and we did not. So we had whole families that would come in and , um, you know, artists would connect with customers and employees would connect with artists and customers that come in just to chat. And that really buoyed us when we had, I want to say 15 up years in all sorts of economies. Wow. I mean, nobody does that right. 15 up years and even in the worst of , of the economies. And that was because of the community that people went out of their way to come to support us no matter what roadblocks were in the way. And that also weaves back to behavior change as well because you, and I know cause you, you get behavior change that sometimes when things are hard to do, people just don't do them anymore. And we had a lot of changes in our environment with the stores that were around us, our parking there had been a crosswalk that fed people right into our store that disappeared all these things that normally take people away. And they did to a certain extent, but the community building made it so that people wanted to come to the store and would overcome those little bits of friction. Right.

Judy Oskam: 17:12

So you've also, so that community also fed your soul and kept you connected.

Andrea Sypros : 17:18

Yes. And I didn't realize how important it was, but for me, community is everything. And I was lost after that because in the context of that was, I mean, I didn't even have to work there every day. So I had set it up so that I could go in when I want to do what I wanted and the staff would, I would just go and praise the staff and, and talk to my friends. It was like going to a spot. This is why I think it's like the cheers by going to spot where, you know, you're going to see someone that, you know, in like customer artists and you're going to have a great conversation and your soul is going to be fed . I didn't realize that was happening. And I didn't realize how important that was until it was gone. And then I found myself and I was a mom of two little kids and I love my kids, but I was a mom of two little kids in a neighborhood where I had no community. And so that was a very, that was a huge wake up call for me that I needed to have layers of community in order for me to feel , um, to be my best, I will say. And, and that community really, I did not have, I hadn't had an interim community, I'll say this, that I realized was not the best fit for me, but it was like a good enough friend to get me through. And then I found, I remembered , um, well actually I think the tiny habits book came out and I was like, oh yeah, I like tiny habits. I've been, you know , sharing it with, with clients and anybody who would listen, they would just, some of my friends would not politely and go, okay, Andy, you're a nerd, you're a nerd, you know, and I'd be like, but it really works. Right. And , uh, so I, I was part of the book launch in that BJ did a 10 week there's five week or 10 week. Let's go through the chapter with him every week. So we teach you t each y ou like a little bit of the insights of the chapter and then some kind of trivia and some kind of what went on in the background. And I was part of that. And even though it wasn't interactive and that you couldn't necessarily talk to him or talk to the other people, I immediately knew w hen the questions that were coming through that these were my people and y ou k now, they weren't g oing t o judge me for being nerdy. I could talk, I could talk about behavior in a way that I wasn't trying to, you know, change who I was about it. And then I started this procrastination group on a call to action for BJ. Someone asked a question about procrastination. He goes, you know, I h aven't really studied that, but if anybody's interested in that, then why don't you guys form your own group and do it on your own and, y ou k now, touch b ase with us. So I ended up doing that and we're still meeting to this day. We're, we're just about to launch , uh , how to untangle presentation , uh, online course , uh , and because we've really been studying how to contact your destination . So that's been one community that I've created that has gotten me through. And then the tiny habits that during that time, I also thought, well, I might as well become a coach , uh , because I want to speak about this stuff. And I want to speak about it ethically. I don't want to just say, like, I read this book and I'm talking to you because I read this book. And so I ended up in coach training and brought along one of my procrastination team friends in there. And then really my cohort kept going for a little bit. We had a small cohort. So four of us kept that was another community site , two small bits of community that were booing me through what I'll say was , um, that was, that was locked down, right? So that was, that was locked down. And then BJ reached out because I had rewritten the five day program and made it tiny. And he said, will you help me with this writing projects and give you really good at that? And then that spurred went on to clubhouse, where I spent a lot of my time and some time with you to Judy talking to helping people create healthier, happier lives through tiny habits, method directed in specific areas. And clubhouse for me was a game changer because we can actually talk to our fellow coaches in real time, connect in a room and help people. And that type of community is , is really fulfilling to my soul. Like that is really the , the bit that makes me come alive is, is doing that well.

Judy Oskam: 21:48

What would you tell people who about being open to their own intuition and listening to the voices? Because you've gone on this journey because you now listen.

Andrea Sypros : 22:00

Yes. Uh, well, I do listen, but I don't always pay attention. So here's what I would say to you. First of all, don't be afraid to get quiet. I think a lot of people really keep themselves busy because they're afraid of the bubbling up anxiety or uncomfortable emotions that will come up. And they're not afraid of them because they think they're going to pass through and it'll be done like a pinch. They're afraid of them because they think they'll get stuck in them. And I hear that a lot, and that was true for me. So in order to listen to your intuition, you do have to get a little quiet. And I'm not saying you have to sit in meditation for an hour or a day or a week or a month, but you do have to be willing to pause and really get quiet and listen in to what your body's telling you. And not necessarily the chattery voice, but that there's an inner voice that is usually saying something like, you know, this might be a good direction. Or what about this? Like the voice to listen to is never judgemental . And it's never going to put you in a state of fear. You might feel a little bit of trepidation, but it's not like the fear of someone who's saying you're going to get burned or you're going to get in trouble. It's usually like, Ooh, that's a big leap. I wonder if I can do it some more excitement or a little more excitement. It's really, there's a w this was, I always remember about fear and excitement is that they're the same in the body. They're the same in the body and the brain gay Hendricks, I think says it this way. Fear is excitement without the breath. And so if you find yourself thinking that it's fear, check your breathing, right. And usually there's a little bit of excitement underneath. Like, it might be hard, I think, wonder if I can do it. And sometimes there's a physical sensation to it where you'll start to learn your own body's tuning as to what that means. And a lot of times I have to say, you know, there's a, there's an intuition, that's steering you towards something that you want. Maybe it's even if it's a little bit out of your reach, but also there's that inner knowing that a lot of people forget to listen to about this. Isn't like not the right person, not the right group. I should say no to this things like that. That's also really valid to listen to. And a lot of times that gets pushed aside too. And if you've ever had that feeling of, oh God, something didn't work out and then you realize, oh, you know what? Some part of me knew that at the beginning, that's the part I call it debriefing. So here's what I suggest I call it debriefing in either of those situations where you've listened to your intuition, done something that you wanted to do, and it turned out well, or you realize like, oh yeah, I had a little inkling way back then or where you took something on and you thought, oh God, it didn't work out. And I kind of knew that before I even said, yes, take a moment and do this think what happened before I said yes or no, or whatever, what happened before that? What was I feeling before that? And kind of take a couple steps backwards so that you can start to get a little bit of light on what's going on with your intuition, because you don't need much light to see what it is. You know, you really just need a little bit of awareness to go, oh, I remember when they asked me to do that, I had kind of a tense thing in my heart and my jaw, or I had a palpable sensation , um, you know, in my neck or my shoulders went up, you might catch those things that are happening and then you'll know for the future so that you can train yourself because really that's what you're doing . We have to, it's like, we run around in these bodies all the time, but we, we very, we're so used to riding them, like, you know, they're kind of a natural bike that we ride that we don't realize like, oh, the gear is grinding. And so this is what you're doing. You're learning to listen to what your finely tuned machinery sounds like when you're going in the direction that you want to go. And then what it sounds like when you're a little off course, and then you can actually implement those things. So you can say like, Ooh, I'm having that sensation. And you know what? You can employ tiny habits method with this too. So you can make a tiny habits recipe where if I'm feeling an inner know , and sometimes we're uncomfortable saying no in the moment, I will say, I need to think about that. Or I have a policy that I think about things for 24 hours before I answer. And also like when you make it a policy or something like that, it takes it off of you, but you have to set that tiny habit recipe up ahead of time. So then, you know, okay, when I have this feeling, then I say, I have a policy of waiting 24 hours, and then you can say yes, or you can, you're more likely to have the space to say yes or no in a calm way. And, and likewise, when you have something that you want to do and you have that feeling of, you know, a little bit of excitement, but trepidation, cause it might be a little bit beyond your comfort zone and you can remind yourself, have a tiny habit recipe of after I feel that sense, you know, that's going to be a yes and I know I'm should be going in this direction. That intuitive sense. I will remind myself that I've succeeded before, when I've acted on this feeling and then just list out what that was or feel into that. And then of course, with all tiny habits, the recipes, you know, you've got to celebrate at the end celebrate .

Judy Oskam: 27:33

Gotta put the celebration in that's , right . Yeah .

Andrea Sypros : 27:37

Yeah.

Judy Oskam: 27:39

And , and Andy, that's what I love is that, you know, you , you, you help so many people online on, in clubhouse and in , in the coaching community. Um, I think that's really , um, you have been such , um, what's the word I'm looking for, such a treasure for the, those communities as well.

Andrea Sypros : 28:01

Thank you. Thank you, Judy. I really that's really

Judy Oskam: 28:05

Well. Well , but I mean it, and that's what attracted me to tiny habits because you just, I just had a feeling that these people are here. All the things we do on, on clubhouse are volunteer. So they're all just giving because we feel like we really can help somebody. And we all kind of use our own self as those aren't example. Right.

Andrea Sypros : 28:27

We're all our own Petri dishes. Like we're like, here's a little experiment.

Judy Oskam: 28:33

That's right . That's right. That's right. That's right. And I think you, you know, you know, I just really always appreciate that with you. And I love that you've told your story, but I think it's interesting to think, where will you be in five years? Do you, do you look ahead, you have futuristic and your top 10 and , and I'm sure you look forward to what might happen as a visionary.

Andrea Sypros : 28:57

Okay. So here's what I've learned. Cause I've been on a spell the spiritual path and the business path and , and just like with the creativity, like I've woven in the creativity now I'm kind of weaving in the spiritual piece until I used to look ahead a lot. I used to really plan on what I wanted to have. And I've had a lot of success with that really. I mean, I was doing that from a very early age. I, my dad had this book, Psycho-Cybernetics like an old timey book and a , about the power of your mind, like to me. And so I think I got this visualization thing. I know, I know I got it from that book before law of attraction, before manifestation, before all that. And I , it just became a habit for me. And then recently I think maybe once I closed my business, I realized that best laid plans didn't always work. And I got a bit of , a bit of a wake up call. Um, you know, people say leap and the net will appear, you'll grow wings. Well, I, the net was really far down and the wings never seem to appear. Like I felt like I was falling for years. I remember saying to a friend of mine, like where's the net and where are my wings? I'm like in I'm , I'm falling forever. You know? Um, and I realized that I'd set the feeling I wanted to have. So now what I do is I set the feeling I want to have. And, and a little bit of the details. Like I know I want to have community of like-minded people that I love and adore that they love and adore me. We can collaborate, we can support one another. We can have a wide reach in the world. So I, I know I wanted that. And I also knew I wanted to speak and teach and heal. And I , you know , I mostly now I heal with words and I heal with ideas and I heal with concepts and, and insights. You know , that's really how I see healing. And I knew that I had a message for the masses, right. That, that I I'm really good one-on-one but I knew that for me, I have a wide reach for my people. And

Judy Oskam: 30:57

That's where your public speaking comes in. You're an expert public speaker and you speak all over and you work with companies and organizations.

Andrea Sypros : 31:06

Exactly. And I think

Judy Oskam: 31:07

That's part of you sharing that knowledge and that information.

Andrea Sypros : 31:10

Exactly. And so I had, when I set those intentions, so my, my vision is more of a sense feeling like I want to feel like I'm part of community. I want to have a wide reach. I want to be public speaking, doing workshops with people and, and, and seeing the benefit and seeing, seeing results for them. And , uh , that was the vision that I set. And so then I kind of just would feel into how that would feel to be speaking, to be part, to be connected. And I had no idea, but now in hindsight, if I debrief myself, that was the tiny habits being coming, a tiny habits coach was that felt sense that I've only had a few times become a tiny habits coach, because I knew I wasn't going to do one-on-one coaching. In fact, people ask me all the time and I'm like, I don't do that. Or I make up like a really high price. And sometimes they pay me and I was like, okay, I'll do it for that. But I'm really kind of making up the price just because I think like , no , you won't pay that. No one will pay that. And then they pay me and I go, okay. Um, but, but really that it's that intuition piece that I listened to. And then I had , so I'd set the tone. I set the tone of what I wanted to have in my life. And I listened to my intuition. And now I can tell you, in hindsight, it was my instinct to become a tiny habits coach. It was my instinct when BJ, when we talked about the tiny habits, email course being way too long to just go all , let me edit that. Cause that's a gift for me. And it was my instinct to , to speak and work in what Gay Hendricks would say is my zone of genius. Right. What's fun for me. What's easy for me. What's effortless for me. What, what, when I'm done with it , whether it's five minutes or five hours, I'm like on a high, even stuff like this. And , and from that, it's like I've collected. People have kind of come in and supported and been part of the committee . The tiny habits coach community is amazing. The clubhouse coach community is really fun. And I get to do great things like, like get to know you better and work in the Gallup strengths room and talk about all sorts of interesting topics. And that's the other thing I wanted it to be good for my mind too . So that's how I visualize now. And then, and then what I do is open to whatever's in the moment. So that's the other bit is I really had to let go of attachment to what it was going to look like. And I think there's a lot of like visualize it and it will happen and it can, but you also have to be, you have to line up your actions and you also have to be kind of open in the moment. You can't be resisting with it. And I think that's really the way I'm weaving those bits in now. And that's not always super popular because people will really, they get attached to their law of attraction, you know, think of it. And that's exactly the way it's going to happen. But I think the more magical way to do things is to set the feeling of it, because then you have some great unexpected surprises of how it actually unfolds. So you're always going to get the great cake, but there's probably amazing frosting that you never knew about. Or for me is brownies. I'll tell you for me, it's brownies.

Judy Oskam: 34:15

Andy Spyros great, great words to live by and great advice. And I think our listeners can check you out on your website and find out more information and check us both out on clubhouse and in the tiny habits, u h, community as well. Thanks for joining me today.

Andrea Sypros : 34:33

Thanks for having me Judy . And I look forward to all our listeners joining us in all this places.

Judy Oskam: 34:38

Thank you for listening to Stories of Change and Creativity. Check out the show notes for more information about this episode. And remember if you have a story to tell or know someone who does reach out to me at judyoskam.com And thanks for listening.