California Black History w/ John William Templeton

  Welcome to Tangible Remnants.  I'm Nakita Reed, and this is my show where I explore the interconnectedness of architecture, preservation, sustainability, race, and gender. I'm excited that you're here, so let's get into it. 

Welcome back.  This week's episode was recorded from the expo floor of the AIA convention in San Francisco this past June. I got the opportunity to interview the incredibly knowledgeable and insightful John William Templeton.  Gabl Media had worked with RCAT so that we could set up a podcasting space at the RCAT booths on the expo floor of the convention.

And thanks to some serendipitous connection, I was able to meet John at the NOMA reception, and he agreed to join me on the podcast. There are lots of links in the show notes to various resources that we discussed, but I'm just so grateful that it all worked out.  And so before we jump into the episode, I wanted to share a conference tidbit about expo passes that I learned at the convention. 

So John was already part of the convention because he was leading a few tours. But he wasn't registered for the main lectures or the expo and knowing that I needed to get him onto the expo floor to be able to record the episode, I contacted one of my friends who works for the AIA to find out how we could get John on the expo floor without having to pay hundreds of dollars.

And that's where I learned about the expo pass. And I wanted to share the details with you.  At the AIA convention and likely other industry conventions. There are typically free one-day expo passes, or at least reduced-price expo passes, where you can register to walk the expo floor. Now, while these passes typically won't get you access to any of the seminars for continuing education credits, it will give you the opportunity to network with various conference attendees, get some really cool swag from exhibitors, and learn more about the various products that are trending in the industry by being able to access the expo floor. 

And listen, I know that conferences are expensive and I am very privileged to be able to get speaker discounts and to work for a company that reimburses conference expenses.  And with conference season starting back up this fall, I wanted to make sure to share that tip with you in case you're looking for lower-cost ways to engage with some of the industry events. 

This fall, I'll be speaking at GreenBuild in Washington, DC,  also at NOMA in Portland, and doing a quick layover in Seattle for the ZNCC happy hour. I'd love to connect with you if you'll be at any of these conferences or events. So please do say hello if you see me there.  Okay, so back to this week's episode,  you'll hear more about how I got connected with John in the episode.

So for now, let me give you a snippet of his bio.  John William Templeton is the founder of the Journal of Black Innovation and National Black Business Month. For 50 years, he has been a trusted authority on African American history as the first journalist to write about Black History Month in 1976 and the author of more than 50 reference books, including his trilogy on the 13th, 14th, and 15th Amendments. 

He was the first African American editor of a business newspaper. He's the founder of the Journal of Black Innovation, National Black Business Month, and creator of Our 10 Plan, the African American economic strategy.  I am super grateful I got the chance to meet and chat with John. His work is prolific and super inspiring. 

One last thing before we get into the episode, this week's spotlight is on the Queen Calafia mural in the California Capitol that John mentions in the episode. Check out the show notes to learn more and follow the podcast on Instagram to see an image of the mural.  All right, that's all the overview I have for you for this week.

So without further ado, please enjoy this conversation between me and John William Templeton from the expo floor of the 2023 AIA convention. 

All right. So I am podcasting from the RCAP booth on the expo floor of architecture, no, of the American Institute of Architects. A 23 conference. Big shout out and thank you to Gabl Media for making this happen and for our cat for hosting us here. Um, it's been a great conference so far and it's been fun to be able to show podcasting, uh, visibly to so many architects in the profession.

Usually when I'm podcasting, I am in a room by myself talking to someone over a computer virtually. And so being able to have people walking by observing us, podcasting, seeing what it's all about and demystifying it a little bit. Hasn't really fun at the conference so far has been amazing. Somewhat overwhelming.

That's before is massive this year and then the sessions are great. The keynotes have been awesome so far. One of my favorite  takeaways from the conference has been actually one of the sessions I went to this morning, which was the coat top 10 or just the coat forum actually. And so being able to really.

And so I'm excited for all the new connections that I have made this week, one of them being the person who I get to have a great conversation with Mr. John Templeton. Hello. How are you? Thank you for joining the show. I'm doing well. Awesome. And so the story on how I met John is one of my colleagues, Sandra Little.

She went on a tour that you gave on Tuesday, which was amazing. And she was like, Nakita, you have to meet this man. You need to have him on the podcast. You need to have the conversation. And so then we met at the NOMA reception last night and the stars aligned. And I'm very grateful that you're here.

Thank you. And so why don't we start with one of the things that I was most intrigued by. So you are a reporter ish.  Let me not even make assumptions. Tell me more about the work that you're doing and how you would define yourself. Well, I try not to. Uh, because what I've learned over my professional career is that you, you really don't get to choose what you have to do on a, on a given day. 

So in the course of any given day, I might be an investment banker,  a historian. Economist, business journalist, a manager,  uh, construction foreman. So when people ask me, what do you do, I say, what do you need done?  I love it. And so then what got you into putting the tour together for the conference?  Well, in 1991, 

I was working as a journalist for the San Jose Mercury News, and I was assigned to look at the history of police brutality after the Rodney King beating. Okay. And while I was there, I found out that the San Fernando Valley was originally owned by black millionaires. Oh. Who had been the last two Mexican governors of South California. 

So that was pretty stunning to me.  And I came back to San Francisco and found out that the whole state was named for a black woman.  So... Pause there. Say more about that. I won't. Okay. And so then I got the rights to the art. Okay.  And wound up doing a 400-page full color book on the history of African Americans in California.

Up to 1900  from 1500 to 1900.  So then I did the volume 2 from 1900 to 1950.  And then volume 3 from 1950 up to about 2000.  And then volume 4 is a lesson plan called The Black Queen.  How African Americans put California on the map.  Nice. So, in the course of doing the work,  we realized that you can't describe this history to somebody verbally  or even in writing. 

Okay. So, in 1992, we started doing tours because the history is so unbelievable that people have to see it for themselves. Right. And so, we've been doing the California African American Freedom Trail tour. For the last 30 years, uh, and throughout the state, and we've mapped 6, 000 sites, it was peer reviewed for the American Historical Association in 2017.

Wow. It's been endorsed by the State Historical Resources Commission. And it's the most extensive  historical record of any state in the country. Oh my gosh. This is why I'm very glad to meet you. This is amazing. And we will make sure to put links to that in the show notes for listeners who want to learn more.

Yes. My goodness. And so then, and as you've been doing the research and documenting the sites, getting the tours together, what have been some of your favorite finds or things that you've learned about?  Well, once again, I don't like to tell people about it in advance. Because, um, the, the sociological issue.

Mm hmm. is that  this history  is  visible  and it's in prominent places.  But nobody sees it.  Right.  So the  mural of Queen Calafia, who's the black queen, California's name for  is in the state capital  in the Senate budget. Committee hearing room. Room 405 in the state capitol.  And every year, when the budget is being introduced,  the TV cameras from all over the state are looking at hearings in this room. 

And so every year, people are looking at this mural,  you know, for months at a time.  And nobody notices that there's this big mural of a black woman.  Right. So the, the, the sociological study has been, well,  how is it that  people can't see history that's right in front of their faces? Right. And, and so that's why we wound up doing the,  the fourth volume, because we realized that in order to actually teach African American history. 

You actually have to unlearn  what people think they already know. Absolutely. And so that's why I don't often... Just tell people and stuff because it's like, well, they think they can't even absorb it because it's just completely 180 degrees different from everything they believe. Yeah, but it's great that you're out here doing advocacy to help people know about it because you don't know what you don't know.

So being able to access it, even for someone from, you know, I'm from my second time in San Francisco. And so I would have no idea about any of this if I hadn't met you. And if my colleague hadn't gone on the tour. So I'm so grateful that you're doing that.  That's amazing. And so I know you have the books and the volumes.

Is there also websites or any sort of online information? Well,  CaliforniaBlackHistory. com  has the books and our books are how we fund the trail, books and the tours. We also do a seven, seven day  statewide tour. Oh. Where we start, either start in LA or San Francisco and do a circle around the state  because we have sites in all 58 counties.

Okay. And so that's also, also sort of revolutionary because  we have very  stereotypical views about what black history is. Right. So, we don't think about black folks in the logging camps  near Oregon border,  or as farm workers in the Imperial Valley.  Coachella.  That was a side of an all black term. Oh,  I did not know that.

Very few people know that. Uh, Los Angeles, the original founders of L. A. Uh huh. 26 out of 44 were black.  Oh, wow. 60 percent of the original founders of San Diego  were black.  That's astonishing. Yeah, so, and all this information is readily available.  There you go.  But nobody knows. So, so we've actually been  pretty careful stewards of it because we want to make sure that people  get the information in a way that allows them to advance and to process it.

Right. Because what it does is it threatens  their foundation of reality. Yeah. Because California,  I was having a discussion with my intellectual property lawyer this morning,  and he says, if you type in beautiful women,  you're going to get young, thin white women, right? And so I did that. And sure enough, I got 12 young, thin white women. 

So,  but in the  1500s,  black women Were the icons for wealth and beauty  and so there's a whole genre of literature  That's through the medieval period That traces from the voyage to Mecca. So one of the hats I wear  is that I'm the The one to do a rube are the history advisor to the Songhai people  So I was appointed by the direct descendant of a ski of Muhammad So Songhai was two and a half times the size of the United States. 

And Askiya Muhammad was, you know, Mansa Musa  was the richest man in recorded history. So his net worth was 400 billion in current times. So 80 percent of today's African Americans  are descended from Songhai. Gotcha. And so. We have a dynasty that is as long as the Windsors  in England,  but more importantly,  Africans occupied Europe  from 17 to 1490. 

Wow, that's like way back. So that's 780 years. Yeah. So if you if you compare that to the period since Columbus, that's 250 years long.  So, so our perspective  can't just start  in the 1600s, right? But to understand African American history and understand California history,  you gotta look back into that period.

And so the, the origin of Queen Calafia, the voyage of Mansa, Mansa Musa to, to,  when he was named wise ruler or Khalifa.  And he had a guard of women warriors. And so that image of black women warriors associated with gold and wealth dominated the world for the next couple hundred years. Wow. And so, so the, the narrative of Lesage des Splendides, 1510,  comes from that real life history.

So when you come to California, the dominant architecture is called what? I mean, it's like Spanish style. Typically, Moorish, Moorish. Oh, actually, that's a good point. Moorish. Yes. And so you have all these little cute clues of history, right?  But you don't really understand. You don't understand  what's going on.

And that's so fascinating. And I love that you're talking about history more expansive because the way history books teach it, it seems like it's the Egyptians did something. The Incans did something and then it was the Renaissance. Nothing else happened in between.  Well, if you compare,  there's a website that does basically longitudinal population around the world.

Oh, interesting. Right?  And so in the 1400s, the most populous place on earth was what we now call Mexico. Okay.  So the Aztecs.  We're probably the most advanced civilization on the planet, right? Right. So then your other population center is West Africa. Yeah. Right. And you have population center in India.  And you have the Ming Dynasty in China.

So if you were looking from space and doing a comparison.  Of the relative strength of civilizations,  you would probably put all, all four of those plus the, uh, Angkor Wat in Cambodia, just on the, you know, just looking at the size of the buildings and that sort of thing, you would put all those civilizations ahead of Western Europe.

Gotcha. And so, so, so, so we'd never have a,  a true global view. Right.  Absolutely. What was going on all over the world because we've  condensed everything into one particular Right.  Language. Right.  Right. So, for instance, we only look at black history in the United States through English,  but most of the United States was not under English rule. 

So the first encounters were usually by people who spoke Spanish and French and Dutch.  So all the records are typically in those languages. And so,  yeah, we were just at American Beach in Florida for Memorial Day.  So the first known Africans to land in what's now the United States came to Florida  in 1508.

Okay. So that's 120  years before  Jamestown. Right. The whole Atlantic coast.  was named Tierra de Esteban Gómez, you know Esteban Gómez? I do not. Okay, he was the first,  you know, sailor from Europe to reach what's now the United States. Columbus never got to the United States. He did not. Okay. He absolutely did not.

Esteban Gómez came and explored the entire Atlantic coast. Oh, wow. And so, as was the custom, they named the area after him. So, the whole Atlantic seaboard in the 1500s  was named for a black sailor.  This is why we talk. I'm, I'm, I am unlearning and learning so much right now. I'm so grateful for this. So, so last night I was there with the architect who was one of the designers of the African burial ground.

So if you go to the African burial ground in New York City, right? The first thing it shows you is first panel is how Esteban Gomez was the first  To reach the mouth of the Hudson Bay. Wow. So New York City was so called discovered. Right. By a black sailor. Right. How? And then the first person to, to live there, who was non indigenous,  was Juan Rodriguez, who was also black. 

So this is completely different, but this is, this is what's in the National Park Service. Right. Right there. Right. In New York City. So just like.  California, right? The information is where it's supposed to be. It's just it's not people don't. Yeah, don't get it. Not common knowledge and not understood. And that's one of the things that I love about doing these podcasts, doing these conversations is being being able to help a lot of that history be more visible like you're doing.

Because even so, when I started the podcast, it was because I was hearing some people thinking that, well, black people and women of color or black people, women and people of color just haven't Um, I'm not sure if I contributed really the field of architecture, but it's like, hold on. We have so many existing buildings that prove that.

Otherwise, we've always been here. The myth of white supremacy makes it seem like only straight white men have done anything of value in the country. And so being able to use architecture, history, preservation as a tool to help  help people unlearn and learn new things and how it works is one of the things I'm super excited to be doing.

And so meeting you and learning more about your work, which I'm going to be diving into is really, well, yeah, keep this in mind, because  Shanghai and the Congo, which is the other region that we were imported from.  We're so advanced. I mean, the Congo Empire had a population of 10 million. It was a very advanced nation state. 

We were brought here for our skills in building, in metallurgy, and in agriculture.  So,  every...  Urban area east of the Mississippi prior to 1920. The buildings were built largely by black labor force. Absolutely. Most universities. Yeah.  So, so, so, and this was really before the profession of architecture really started after the Civil War.

So, so historic buildings.  You know, particularly, you know, for instance, I did my family history.  My family has been in Iredell County, North Carolina since 1750.  Oh wow. And we've continuously been free and property owners since the 1790 census. That's amazing. And, somebody in my family has continuously been in business in Iredell County since the 1820 census.

Gotcha.  So I didn't know that until I actually went back and, you know, I just assumed we'd been enslaved, right? But when I thought about it, I said, well, you know,  yeah, both my grandfathers had like 80-acre farms and everything.  They didn't, they didn't act like people who had been in slavery, right? I mean, white people were deferential to them.

Right. Right. Okay. And so, when I actually did the history, it's like, oh, okay, that makes sense to me, right? Right. So, in my book, Grandpa Jack's Secret. So, my grand, great grandfathers, about four generations of them,  were the heads of the largest moonshining operation in western North Carolina. Wow. And they kept it secret for like 100 years. 

So, I didn't even know about it until I was 40 years old. And that's why I call it Grandpa Jack's Secret. So, my brother said, did you know Grandpa Jack was a bootlegger? I said, Grandpa Jack, the Presbyterian elder? He said, yeah, that one. 

That's amazing.  The secrets of the elders. Probably so many. They're probably also very grateful that YouTube and the various technology socials that exist now didn't exist back then. I know, I know, I know, I know. This is amazing. Alright, well, as we are wrapping up a little bit. So I guess one of the things that I would also love to pick your brain about.

So I know that you are multi-passionate, you're doing a lot of things. For students who are interested in learning more about any of the many hats that you wear. What's just some advice you'd give for students who are looking to learn more about history or things like that? Well, we have an instructional network called Reunion.

Okay. And we do four hours a day of instructional programming where we use the Secretary of Interior's standards to actually present history. And we've been doing it for 30 years. We've never had a complaint. We've never had anybody try to ban us. Because by using the Secretary of Interior's standards, by using public records, by avoiding interpretation, what we're doing is showing students how to find their own history.

That's amazing. And so we basically are inviting students to do the same thing I did. Okay. But not wait until they're 40 years old. Fair. To do it. That's fair. So this year our project is to have all 8 million African American students.  To trace their ancestors back to the 1870 census. Interesting. Yeah.

And so then there's the reunion. I assume it teaches the students how to do that, what the tools are. Yeah. And then is that a program mainly for California students? Nationwide. Nationwide. And we're actually moving into the international realm as well this year. Because there are 80 countries that have a black majority. 

Oh.  Wow. Yes. And all those countries have educational programming, a lot of it in English, so increasingly we're going to be using that programming to, you know, uh, teach American students about the world,  you know. Yeah, which is so needed, because one of the things that always bugged me, so okay, I grew up in Northern Virginia, went to a high school in Fairfax County, but it was still one of those things where like,  What history books teach black students about black history is pitiful.

So it's always needing to learn more on our own, through families, through other means of learning about the history of black students, of black people in general. Yeah, the irony of these bans on black history was, well, they weren't teaching it anyway. It's like, what are you banning? Exactly. That watered down.

Oh, we just came here as slaves.  Okay. You know, you know, at some level, it's like, well, we don't need this stuff. And so it's great to know that there are other resources available and that you're also doing it in a framework of using the secretary for the interior standards, because that's also. Trying to get more black people and people of color into the field of preservation to even know what the secretary of the interior standards are and how to do the research, how to find more information. 

Part of what we talk about in our lesson plan is that  it really goes beyond black history. It's like, how do you know what's true? Right?  Yeah. And we don't tell students how to figure out what's true. Okay. And so in the United States,  The National Park Service determines what our history is.  So... What gets recorded, all of that.

So, so when you go to National Parks and you look at the interpretation that the National Park Service does, it's almost 180 degrees different from what folks get taught either in schools or in movies. Mm hmm. So it's like... Right. You know, so, so you don't have to be particularly revolutionary or anything like that.

All you gotta do is...  Right, look at the documentation that's there, the resources, the records, but that's why the public records are there. And that's how you avoid debate, because it's like, well,  this is the Joint Reconstruction Committee. They got a volume on every state, so there's no debate about what happened.

It's got a whole volume that describes everything that happened. Everybody came testified. Robert E. Lee testified. Jefferson Davis testified. So you got everybody right there. Right. It's like, it's not my interpretation, but I said, here, here's the documentation of what they said. Yeah. And you can, you can come to your own conclusion about, you know, if, you know, either the United States. 

I mean, what do you believe in that the constitution, you know, you know where to find the information. That's fantastic. So then, all right, well, as we were wrapping up here from the expo floor of the American Institute of Architects, a 23 John, where can people find you to learn more information? Well, my site is blackmoney.

com, but I'm also the founder of journal of black innovation, national black business month. So during all this. I'll do doing 31 ways, 31 days, and we have a program every night at seven o'clock. This year we're gonna have African heads of state and cabinet ministers, some of the top African American financiers.

And we're also announcing the Sgt. Johnson National Museum of African American Art in San Francisco, which would be basically the West Coast counterpart to the Museum on the Baltimore. That's amazing. Well, I'm so grateful for all the work you're doing and for spending some time with me today on the floor.

And for all the listeners, I hope you learned as much as I did, because this was mind-blowing and I'm so excited that you're doing what you're doing. Okay. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for listening. Links to amazing resources can be found in the episodes show notes.  Special thanks to Sarah Gillberg for allowing me to use snippets of her song Fireflies from her debut album, Other People's Secrets, which by the way is available wherever music is sold. 

If you haven't already, be sure to subscribe to the show.  And now that Tangible Remnants is part of the Gabl Media Network, you can listen and subscribe to all network partner content at gablmedia.com. That's G A B L media dot com.  Until next time, remember that historic preservation is a present conversation with our past about our future.

We don't inherit the earth from our parents, but we borrow it from our children. So let's make sure we're telling our inclusive history.  I saw the first fireflies.  And  right then,  I thought of you  Oh, I could see us catching them, and setting them free  Honey, that's what you do 

That's what you do to me