CROSSOVER: Going Green w/ Dimitrius Lynch

Nakita Reed (00:03.736)
Welcome to Tangible Remnants. I'm Nakita Reed, and this is my show where I explore the interconnectedness of architecture, preservation, sustainability, race, and gender. I'm excited that you're here, so let's get into it.

Welcome back. This week's episode is a crossover featuring the bonus episode from the limited series, Going Green, a spaces podcast story. This series was created by fellow Gable media podcaster, Dimitrius Lynch, and is well researched and beautifully produced. I was loving listening to the series and was super excited when he invited me to interview him for the bonus recap episode of the series. In our conversation.

we discuss the importance of sustainability and the potential benefits of a sustainable future. We reflect on the impact of climate change, the journey of creating the Going Green series, and the interconnectedness of history, media, and corporate responsibility in shaping public perception about climate issues. The discussion emphasizes the need for collective action and the role of communication in addressing environmental challenges, while also

exploring surprising discoveries made during his research process. We covered some of the highlights in the recap episode and sorry for dropping some spoilers, but there's still so much more in the series that we didn't get into. And I wanted to share this as a full crossover episode on this podcast in the hopes that you will listen to the full 10 episode limited series. Seriously, if you're curious how policy, communication and politics have impacted how and why,

we've gotten to where we are in the U.S. when it comes to views on sustainability, then Going Green, the limited series, is a must-blessing. Also, if you're not already a Gable Media member, you should consider joining this month, this month being November 2024, so you can be part of the November All Access series. It's going to be hosted by Dimitrius on Wednesday, November 20th, and the theme this month is Building a Resilient Future.

Nakita Reed (02:15.702)
Architecture, Climate Action, and Environmental Justice. The panel is going to feature experts in sustainability, architecture, and revitalization. So we're talking about Stephen Biersteker, Majora Carter, Eric Corey Freed, and Farah Khadir. And it's going to explore how architects, engineers, and construction workers, or AEC professionals, can address the growing challenges of climate change and environmental justice. It's a live webinar. And for those of you who need CEUs,

you'll be able to get one AIA HSW credit. I'll put links in the show notes to help you easily navigate to those other spaces online to learn more. So just remember to check those out. All right, well, I'm super excited for you to hear this recap episode. So without further ado, please enjoy this full crossover episode of Going Green, a spaces podcast story, which is a limited series that was created by Dimitrius Lynch.

Nakita Reed (03:13.646)
A sustainable future will mean a better world for all of us. It's all too easy when thinking about sustainability to focus on what we must give up and miss what we gain. But the reality is that a sustainable world is full of gains. It's a world in which we gain cleaner air and water, quieter cities, and in which electricity becomes more affordable and more available to more people.

It's world in which we gain a cleaner, healthier ocean that can produce more food for us. It's a world where our gains are shared more equally and the richest no longer use more than their fair share. It's a world where eating more plants brings greater health and less expensive foods. It's a world in which poverty is ended, societies are equal, indigenous peoples' rights are respected.

and everyone has access to healthcare and education. It's a world full of nature to explore in distant lands and seas, or right on our doorsteps within our cities. Above all, it's a world in which both humankind and nature can truly thrive. We should let our politicians and business leaders know that a sustainable future is not just something we need, it's something above all that we want.

This is Sir David Attenborough, a British broadcaster, biologist, naturalist, historian, and writer. With one of the most recognizable voices in the world, he is best known for writing and presenting the Life on Earth, Planet Earth, and Blue Planet nature documentaries, comprehensive surveys of animal and plant life on Earth. Interestingly, despite his work surveying the planet over decades,

He has long been skeptical about climate change, which makes his warnings now all the more impactful. If you're going to make a statement about the world, you better make sure this isn't just your own personal reaction. And the only way you can do it, do that, is to see the work of scientists around the world who are taking observation as to what's happening. As to what's happening to temperature, what's happening to humidity, what's happening to radioactivity.

Nakita Reed (05:40.19)
what happened ecologically. Even the biggest, the most awful things that humanity has done, so-called civilizations have done, pale to significance when you think of what could be around the corner unless we put ourselves together. Deserts in Africa have been spreading. There could be whole areas of the world where people can no longer safely live. The hottest temperatures yet recorded in Death Valley and yet we are such optimists.

We say we go to bed at night, well that was exceptional. Gosh that was interesting wasn't it? That was the highest temperature. Good Lord. well that's the end of that. Not at all. Wait. Wait another few months. Wait another year. See you again. After years of contributing to radio and TV, he decided to briefly join Instagram in 2020 to share a series of posts about the planet, noting that quote, saving our planet is now a communications challenge.

We know what to do. We just need the will. When I began my career, I had no idea that I would be chronicling a story of change on such a planetary scale. One with such profound implications for all life on earth. We've brought ourselves to the very brink of a disaster, the likes of which we have never seen before. I witnessed it with my own eyes. But this is not my story. It's ours.

the story of everyone alive now and it doesn't stop here. We're all living through these extraordinary times and the final chapter is ours to write. It might feel like a moment of hopelessness but actually it can be our turning point. We know what we need to do. By making the right choices in the next 10 years we can begin to rewild the world and create a rich

thriving sustainable future for ourselves on earth. We can yet become the heroes of our own story. We have it in our power. Disaster or triumph, what happens next is up to us. Our environment is the cornerstone of society. Neglecting to address climate change will exacerbate every other social concern. Health care,

Nakita Reed (08:08.238)
the economy, food supply, energy costs, immigration, and geopolitical conflicts, to name a few. It's on each of us to communicate the challenge that we face. In this series, I set out to explore our relationship with the environment, and if the climate is indeed changing how I and others are personally experiencing it, why have we not collectively acted? After well over 600 hours of painstaking work,

I was excited to be able to pull together these incredible stories that everyone should hear. Whether you're curious about how energy impacts your life, skeptical of mainstream narratives, or just looking for honest, unfiltered insights into the forces shaping our world. If you've listened to this entire series, your support means the world to me. I genuinely believe this is some of the most important work that I've done to date, and I'm extremely proud of what we've created.

Going Green is more than just a podcast. It's a deep exploration of the crucial decisions, groundbreaking innovations, and powerful influences that impact all of us. I believe this is information that can make a difference and needs to be shared widely. If it resonates with you, I hope you will spread the word. Now, for one last time, I'm Dimitrius Lynch, and this is Going Green.

The series was so all-encompassing and not at all what I expected. They had actually looked at a map of Iraq and making plans in advance, know, a wish list of what could happen. So it was all, you know, quite premeditated. I thought that was just such an aha moment where I was like, my gosh, that was a wild insight. I was not expecting to be like, dang, C-SPAN.

Nakita Reed (10:07.758)
In this bonus episode, I invited my friend and fellow Gable Media podcaster, Nakita Reed, the host of Tangible Remnants to discuss the series with me. But before we get into that, I have a few housekeeping items to get to. First, if you haven't done so already, make sure you subscribe or stay subscribed to the Spaces podcast feed. I'll be back with more insightful conversations in a couple of weeks. Secondly, on Friday, October 25th, 2024,

I will be attending the Entree Architect Community Annual Meeting in Nashville, Tennessee, the business conference for entrepreneur architects. I will be given a presentation on storytelling. With my co-presenter, Randy Wilburn, we'll explore the fundamentals of effective storytelling and its impact on your brand, practical tips for finding and sharing your unique stories, and strategies for integrating storytelling into your daily practice.

I highly recommend this conference overall. And for our presentation, you can expect an engaging and fun session filled with actionable insights, real life examples, and a few surprises along the way. Lastly, in mid November, I will be hosting GableMedia's first webinar event called All Access, where GableMedia members will have unparalleled access to leading professionals to ask your most pressing questions and gain groundbreaking insights that can propel your career and projects forward.

I'll lead a panel discussion with renowned environmental and sustainability experts. So if you're a fan of going green, you don't want to miss this conversation. You can find a link to both of those events in the show notes. Now for today's episode, again, I invited Nikita Reed, an award winning architect and preservationists, sustainability advocate, and public speaker to join me in this conversation.

I invited Nakita because we view the built environment and our approach to analyzing it in a similar way. Through her podcast, Tangible Remnants, she explores the interconnectedness of architecture, preservation, sustainability, race, and gender. In her podcast, you'll learn about people, buildings, and policies that made a historical impact and hear from women and BIPOC practitioners who are impacting the built environment today.

Nakita Reed (12:30.914)
In this bonus episode of Going Green, we discuss the motivations behind the series, explore its historical context, the interconnectedness of events, and the role of communication and manipulation in shaping public perception. We dive into surprising discoveries that were made during my research, the messiness of history, and the importance of corporate responsibility. The discussion also touches on future perspectives on climate action,

highlighting both challenges and hope for a better future. And we'll get into all of that after the break.

Nakita Reed (13:13.74)
I am excited to be here coming off of listening to the series and I have so many questions. So I'm super excited to dig in with you. My biggest question that I would love to start with is what was the impetus for you to create this series? So it was a lot of things and it's hard to sort of frame it in a clean answer, but looking at just kind of the landscape of things, you know, we were coming off of

I'm in California for those that don't know. Coming off of, you know, a ton of wildfires here in California, seeing the flooding in Florida, fires in Canada with smoke billowing out to New York and all of the various hurricanes and tornadoes and all these things that were happening around the country and around the world. And I was also listening to a lot of content that

was sort of down the vein of what I was thinking about doing with this podcast. I have been thinking about it for a long time and trying to figure out which subject I wanted to tackle. Cause this was a little bit of a transition in my normal podcasts. It's, it's always been kind of about this idea of context matters and giving a lot of perspectives and angles to a story.

but I had always done it sort of in one episode or like a 10 minute block. And I was just dying to kind of stretch that out. Cause I could, I had to cut so much information in the past when I've done it in like these little 10 minute windows and I couldn't dive in as much as I wanted to. So I had been thinking about doing something like this, but I couldn't figure out the subject matter. But then all of this stuff in the environment started happening and looking at

society, there was a lot of overlap that started to bubble up these questions of, at least in our industry, you know, a lot of us look at climate change and understand that it's an actual problem. But there's been this, you know, slow move to address it. And I started thinking like, why is that? Why are we not just kind of gathered around as a

Nakita Reed (15:29.154)
country as a world and just decided to tackle this thing and why has it been so slow to happen? And so I finally committed to studying the environment and getting into this subject. And it kind of just took a life on its own as I got further and further into it. So that's kind of the roundabout answer to what got me into this. I love it. I love it.

Like the series was so all-encompassing and not at all what I expected in terms of when I was getting into it. Because as a preservation architect, I am totally on board with the greenest building is the one that's already built. Building reuse is climate action. We need to take action as designers. We have a responsibility, all of the things. And so hearing the way that you did such a fantastic job of navigating history and kind of doing the deep dives into whether it's

Rachel Carson's Silent Spring up to how that impacted policy. But then also the way that you were able to really weave together how industry and research and policy and politics and communication all started blending together around the messaging was just amazing. And even listening to the various clips that you put in there of being able to hear people in their own voice, being able to hear President Kennedy

referencing Rachel Carson talking and her work from Silent Spring. It was well done. And so one of the questions I had as I was listening to this, knowing all that goes into editing and podcasting and all that, there are so many clips and I know you had to do so much research for this. So how did you handle digging into the rabbit holes to kind of pull back nuggets without kind of getting lost in the abyss? Because you covered so much and did it so well.

Thank you. Thank you. It was extremely difficult. As you can imagine, once you get into this kind of wide ranging discussion and research, it's very easy, as you've alluded to, very easy to try to kind of get off kilter and go down into subject matter that, you know, may not matter to the overall story. So it was discipline, just constantly reminding myself, okay, does this

Nakita Reed (17:49.208)
connect to the story? Does it answer the question? Why, who, what, where does this move the environmental story along? So answering those questions constantly reminding myself and a lot of cutting along the way. It was heartbreaking to leave some things on the cutting room floor and to delete. That's fair. So one of the other things I really liked about the series was

You went far enough back to give a great historical foundation, but then you also went through contemporary times to present day. And so it's this idea of blending history and memory. Because when you're talking about episodes one and two and talking about various elements that were clearly history and before the time I was born, to then getting up to the creation of C-SPAN and Enron and all of those, I remember that stuff from when I was a kid.

I didn't understand it as a child and seeing how it was connected was really, really fascinating. And even as an adult, I don't watch C-SPAN typically. I also had never really thought about the impact of C-SPAN, but then kind of your connection between the formation of C-SPAN, Newt Gingrich's desire to kind of leverage that and kind of seeing how technology was going to impact communication.

I thought that was just such a aha moment where I was like, my gosh, that was a wild insight. I was not expecting to be like, dang, C-SPAN. That was a spoiler. Sorry, it is a spoiler. You haven't listened to it yet. that was an angle I was not expecting. Similarly to kind of the plot twist, as you called it, of realizing that Steve Bannon, the dude who's in jail right now from all the Trump stuff,

was the guy who funded Biosphere too, think, or like, helped came in as like one of the funders and was actually speaking eloquently about the impacts of climate change and why we had to do this scientific studies. Like, things I was blown away by. And so I loved how you were able to thread the needle to really make the various connections of it. And so I'm curious for you, what are some of the most surprising things that you learned while researching the series, even if there are things that you had to leave on the cutting room floor?

Nakita Reed (20:06.7)
I think most of the stuff that was really surprising, I forced and made sure that I had to get it in there. I think the two biggest things really, there was a lot, but I'll say the two biggest things was probably the influence that the oil industry, the fossil fuel industry had on the Bush administration. I had no idea at the time and I was, you know, a teenager. was starting college, but

You know, it's not really on your radar at that age, but I had no idea the depth and some of the things that happened behind the scenes that weren't really talked about as much. then similarly with the Trump administration, there was a lot that happened there where there was, you know, wiping scientific information off of websites and cutting it from different agencies.

that kind of stuff kind of jumped out just because it wasn't talked about as much and coming across that information was pretty surprising. And of course, the Steve Bannon part, that was a curve ball. I did not see it coming. Yeah, totally. Yeah, think from the, one of the things that also struck me from the segment about kind of the impacts from the Bush administration also, it was kind of after 9-11, yes, knowing that we were going,

the war was about oil, but not realizing that before the war, Iraq oil reserves were really not open to the rest of the world. But then after the war it was, it was like, my gosh, like it's the, all of the evidence that was just the very much so. Yes, it was absolutely about the oil, even with all the various administration officials and all that coming out, being like, of course it was. So that was also peaceful. It's like, it's all intertwined and connected.

crazy things about that was the reports that they were actually looking at maps in advance of 9-11. When they were having their discussions about the energy policy amongst all the oil companies, they had actually looked at a map of Iraq and making plans in advance, know, a wish list of what could happen. So it was all, you know, quite premeditated.

Nakita Reed (22:33.494)
And I think that was something else that struck me throughout this entire series was that so much of it was premeditated, but almost made to look like, no, it's happening. what a happy coincidence. That's what, what? How did that happen? And so I think sometimes I have the misconception that people just need more information because they just don't know any better. And really listening to this and seeing kind of the through line and the threads.

of how all of these things really are connected was something that was impactful. And even though within the work that I do and the podcast that I have, I talk about how everything is connected, but I often think of it of looking backwards where it's like, this happened and that happened and that caused that to happen, but almost as a cause and effect as opposed to, this was premeditated and that's why that happened and this is why like all of these things are working together.

What really landed that for me was the segment where you were talking, we were kind of talking about the impacts that, I think his name was Cooney, the not scientist who kept editing the reports, the scientific reports to be like, we're going to just say that that might happen or maybe that's a possibility. It's like, sir, you are not a scientist. Why are you editing content? What? And the impacts that he had and how he was enabled to frame scientific research to the administration.

That was one of those moments where I was like, what is happening and where are the adults? And he came immediately from the fossil fuel industry and right back into it. Right. So he was like job security. It's like, there was this big expose. He had to resign his position in the administration and he's back kind of where he started. Right back into the industry that he was already helping all along. And had direct communication during.

Right. Getting, getting pats on the back. my gosh. Yeah. It was one of those things where like the more I was listening and also I'm assuming you didn't have to do any sort of like freedom of information acts or anything like that. All of this information is readily available. Like on the Google. That was, that was the shocking thing. Well, not shocking, impressive, I guess that there's so much information available to us obviously with the internet and you just dive in and kind of

Nakita Reed (24:56.834)
follow this and get all the information, all the actual video clips, people saying these things themselves, it's all readily available. It's just, you know, going out to get it and source it. But back to your point about sort of the history, the funny thing, I always tell people this, I hated history as a kid. It was just not one of my subjects in high school. But when I got to college, I had one teacher that

taught his course in a way that context matters. And he talked about, you know, the various angles and forces that can change something and the perspectives of different people, their motives, and how that impacts or impacted the events throughout the course of history. And that really resonated with me because I think you begin to understand and it clicks more rather than a list of dates and events.

you can understand why someone did something and how it, and then to your point that cause and effect, but you understand the full scope of that. Right. And I think telling history and context also makes it much more relatable and reminds us that the life that we are living is a future person's history. And so there have been some times when, particularly when I've been talking to people in preservation who are really good storytellers,

they'll be telling stories in a way where it just feels so salacious. And I'm like, wait, the people that you're talking about have been dead like 200 years, but I am like clutching my pearls and on the edge of my seat, like, and then what happened? What happens next? And so it's very much, it's very humanizing. So it's not just kind of thinking of these historical figures of like putting them on a pedestal. It's very much like, well actually he was, he did that because he was mad at, you know, this person or he, you know,

Yeah, that person scuffed his shoes or something like that. Like it just makes it realize that the decisions that we're living today will have future implications going forward. It's just a reality show. It really is. And like when you get into it, like history is so messy. It's it's so much drama. so that's been one of the, one of the interesting things. So I'm so grateful to you for being able and spending the time to put things in context. Thank you. Yeah. It's, it's been quite a journey to.

Nakita Reed (27:23.192)
to dig in. And it was just, just, just surprising to go down these rabbit holes. I had, you know, this kind of initial outline of what I was thinking. And as I was digging in, it just opened up so much more. As I started to ask those questions, there was just story after story that just kept popping up along the way. Yeah.

Was astroturfing part of the original outline or was that something that kind of came out of the research that you're doing as you're getting into it? Not at all. That was completely just part of the research. And I honestly don't even really remember how I stumbled upon it. I think it came about when I was digging into sort of the communication effort and somehow an article came up on the astroturfing.

against the lead. And then I started wondering, well, how big of a thing is astroturfing? And all of these old videos and campaigns started came up and just kind of researching those. So it was just super interesting as I was going down, but completely an accident. Good. Well, that was definitely a happy accident because like learning more about it and like, there's a term for this.

And then even like the different ads that you saw, I like, remember that ad. my gosh. No, that too? And then the, you could have seen me like driving in my car, the look I had on my face when you uncovered the fact that, yeah, BP is the one that started the whole idea of a carbon footprint. they could like responsibility from the corporation to the individual. I was like, no, what? Like that flew in my mind. Yeah. Yeah. It's so crazy.

when you look at it from sort of an aerial view of, I mean, the most accurate word is manipulation that has happened over the last, I don't even know, 70 years of actual manipulation. But it's, yeah, it's just so shocking. And that one caught me by surprise too. Like I mentioned in the episode, I remember

Nakita Reed (29:44.942)
going through my carbon footprint with friends and we were all comparing carbon footprints to each other and shaming each other that had higher ones. All to find out that this was a coordinated thing to shift the blame and make you think that you're the bad person. Right. And I think that it's been leveraged in the industry to be able to at least give us a measurement tool. And so maybe it'll backfire on them because now we are actually being like, all right, well, how do we measure it?

And what about embodied carbon? What about other ways that we can actually be mindful to bring these numbers down? And so I think there was that moment of, they're trying to make it seem like it's just the individual's fault and corporations are solvent or not involved at all. And so that's definitely not the case. But I do think, and I'm hopeful at least, that we're able as the industry to continue using those metrics to be able to be like, all right, well, yeah, actually we do need to be paying more attention to this.

but at the building level because buildings are such a big impact of how we are going to deal with what comes next and how we even need to start thinking about how we're going to design our buildings to handle what's coming next. Yeah, definitely. And in the last episode, I kind of go through, I mean, there's a almost infinite list of solutions in various ways that we can approach this, but I go through a few different options. And I think the carbon footprint to some extent,

kind of goes to the idea of walkable communities and helping people lower their carbon footprint by creating spaces where they don't have to take cars everywhere where they can walk and mix use communities and kind of going back to the main street sort of vibe where you're mixed in with housing and the commercial space to some extent where you don't have to take a car everywhere. Right.

Right, that would help a lot of different areas, particularly in rural America, but that's also interesting to think through how Main Street started collapsing because of suburbs, because of developments sprawling out, because automobiles, you know, gotta give people cars, and people gotta live further away so they can buy our cars, and all that sort of thing. And even just kind of thinking of like Michelin star restaurants, Michelin tires, it's the same company, and it's like it started because...

Nakita Reed (32:10.51)
The tire company wanted to sell tires and so they needed to tell people, go try those restaurants over there so your tires start to wear down so you need to buy new tires. It's like those kinds I haven't heard that one. Yes, legit. It's like, all right, how do we get people to use their tires? Go over there, go visit that great restaurant. Interesting. Yes, that's why it's the same. It's I to do another episode. There we go.

So one of the things I was surprised by the series was the number of clips from conservative radio that you had in the series showing both viewpoints. Definitely the most conservative radio that I've listened to ever probably. But the clips that you had of even Rush Limbaugh talking about climate change. And so I'd love to talk a bit more about kind of how you're able to have both sides represented. That was one of the things that was always in the back of my mind as I was doing this and

somewhat struggle with because I'm, I'm an independent, but I kind of, I'm willing to listen to conservatives, but a lot of the stances on social issues is almost a non-starter in a lot of ways. So when I had those clips from conservatives, I didn't want to sort of cut them early and have sort of gotcha moments. So I tried to give longer, clips where they were

voicing their opinion to get it all out there. So you'll see that with Rush Limbaugh and Newt Gingrich, letting him voice his opinion and his perspective on climate change. So that was one thing that through this, was like, okay, I got to make sure that I'm not perceived as these, you know, gotcha moments. I'm just really trying to follow the story and

put forth the information that I'm coming across. So it was, was interesting to come across that stuff. and yeah, same for me. A lot of it was like, wow, this is a long clip that I listened to for the first time. There were moments of that. I'm like, Rush Limbaugh still talking. right. All right. I'm hanging there with you, Demetrius. But it was interesting to see it there to hear it rather, and to just realize the extent of which

Nakita Reed (34:35.853)
The conversation has been in the media and even just things that I didn't realize like the fact that Rush Limbaugh's show is syndicated for decades. I can almost see started like late 80s till like when he died almost in the late 2019s or 20, you know, it's like decades. So it's just a good reminder of the length of time the conversation has been going on. Yeah. But the other benefit of doing that is that

When you put these things juxtaposed with all of the context, you understand how coordinated some of these things have been, the financial incentives that people had, particularly starting from Rush Limbaugh. There's a profit, there's an economy around it, and it's only gotten more and more. Yeah, way worse. Whether it's money or influence, and then with social media, all of that has just kind of ballooned and you see that now in society.

So being a contrarian pays off these days and that all kind of started around that time. I could dive into some of the roots of it, but it really took off from Rush Limbaugh and kind of balloon to what we see today. And even the kind of the sermon that you're talking about during like the creation of Fox News and all that and the way that they made sure to mix in politics with the news and kind of present them together.

I hadn't even realized that that was a thing really in the sense where it's like, that's just news. That's how our media is. But no, it wasn't always that way. So that was a super great reminder of the fact that the way our news media, the way our media and news is now is not how it always was. It was very intentionally created. But it was born in the 1940s. Right. Exactly. And just really caught on in the 90s and became...

got a whole new life of its own. Right. And so I guess as you were, I guess, kind of wrapping up the series for the research that you wanted to do for now, were there any things that you didn't get into in the last episode that you want to add on now or things that you're hopeful for the future and all that good stuff? I think I covered at least everything in this particular story of the environment. This one is really

Nakita Reed (36:59.042)
Kind of through the lens of the fossil fuel industry as it's one of the biggest emitters of carbon and contributors to climate change. I've considered coming back with additional seasons at some point, because there's still plastic that there's a conversation about and a couple other areas in regards to the environment that I think would fit nicely into this series.

But I think at least for now, this tells this full story and I'm pretty happy with it. I don't think I left really much on the table as far as that I would want to tell in this story. But to the question of how I feel about the future, I kind of waffle back and forth on whether it's a good one or a bad one. There's always bad things in the news and setbacks, but I

think we've reached a point where there's very few people that can say that climate change is not real anymore. And I think a lot of people are being exposed and will continue to be exposed. And the public will see that and start to shift how they select leaders and engagement from the public, I believe, will increase over time.

We're kind of going through this weird evolution of society right now that we're going through this growing pain, period right now where we're struggling with social media and this division amongst society. But I think once we get past that, there is brighter days on the other side. And I think that will make up for a good future. once we get past this, and I think the financial side is also.

going to help fuel that because like I touched on, you have insurance companies that are pulling out their businesses that are at risk because of climate change. And I think that pressure, financial pressure is also going to start to fuel at a turning point. So all of those things, think, lead to a brighter future, but we still got a little bit of mud to get through. that's fair. I think that that has been something that's been interesting to see play out in the industry.

Nakita Reed (39:21.496)
How the money piece of it, now the financiers, the insurance folks are actually focusing on the realities of climate change, the realities of not wanting to insure things that are going to be in places where, the sea level's rising. We're not insuring that. We're not insuring certain things. That's been interesting to see how it plays out. And then even having to encounter and deal with kind of scope one, two, and three emissions as a profession so that...

So basically you can prove that you are leading to decarbonization. Those kinds of metrics I think are what's gonna push us forward as opposed to the, well no, we have to pretend like nothing's wrong because oil and gas need more money. No. So I'm with you on that. I'm definitely optimistic, but I definitely think we're not out of it yet. There's still plenty of work to do. And as your series has shown and taught us that there are plenty of ways to be intentional.

and premeditative on the good things. Yeah, that was one thing with the series that I found a lot of hope in is along the way, there are some great stories, there are great moments where we came up with innovative solutions to address the problem along the way. There were people that pushed for different designs, different policies, there was bipartisanship that came up with great ideas. So I think

along the way. It's not all doom and gloom in this series. There's some great stories of hope along the way. Take that and bring it forward. I think it's positive moving forward. Yeah, agreed. Just as people can be forces for evil, there's plenty of us who can be forces for good as well. The way things will be in the future are not how they have been in the past, or they don't have to be how they have been in the past. the story is not done yet.

Well, any other questions or anything else you want to cover before we wrap up? Just for those that are listening, this is an incredible story about our relationship with the environment. As we've discussed, it's particularly highlighting climate change and the forces, both shadowy and otherwise, that have an influence on our perception about climate change.

Nakita Reed (41:45.792)
I really hope that people will check it out and share it as much as possible. The goal was just to get this full story out there and hope that no matter which perspective you have about the subject matter, just listen and get all of the information that I present and hopefully change your mind if you don't think climate change is a thing, but otherwise just get the information out there for people to kind of retain and

think about. Well, thank you so much for having me on. I'm excited. I'm just excited to have experienced the series and I'm glad that we were able to recap it. Yes. Thank you so much, Nakita, for doing this.

Thank you again to Nakita Reed for joining me on this special episode. Again, Nakita is the host of Tangible Remnants. You can find a link to her incredible show in the show notes or just search Tangible Remnants wherever you get your podcasts. Also, if you haven't done so already, make sure you subscribe or stay subscribed to the Spaces podcast feed. I'll be back with more insightful conversations in a couple of weeks. And a huge thank you to you.

for listening to Going Green. If this series resonates with you, I hope you will take a moment to share the series with one person. I'm truly hopeful that this series will illuminate the situation we're in and inspire more meaningful conversations about the future we're all building together. If you're extra inspired, I've dropped a link in the show notes to find your US representative. I encourage you to voice your concerns about the environment.

and anything you've heard during a series. Remember, saving our planet is now a communications challenge. We know what to do, we just need the will. Thank you so much for listening. Links to amazing resources can be found in the episode's show notes. Special thanks to Sarah Gilbert for allowing me to use snippets of her song Fireflies from her debut album, Other People's Secrets, which by the way is available wherever music is sold.

Nakita Reed (43:56.578)
If you haven't already, be sure to subscribe to the show. And now that Tangible Remnants is part of the Gable Media Network, you can listen and subscribe to all network partner content at gablemedia.com. That's G-A-B-L media.com. Until next time. Remember that historic preservation is a present conversation with our past about our future. We don't inherit the earth from our parents, but we borrow it from our children. So let's make sure we're telling our inclusive history.

Saw the first fireflies

Nakita Reed (44:32.77)
right then I thought of you

Nakita Reed (44:38.99)
Just catching them and setting them free Honey that's what you do

Nakita Reed (44:50.518)
What you do to me?