Exploring the ACHP w/ Susan Glimcher

 The story of America is vast. Some of it is ugly. Some of it is divisive. Some of it is beautiful. But we really need everyone to tell their stories. That's how we celebrate historic preservation, or preservation in general. And  It's very important that we continue to do so. 

Welcome to Tangible Remnants.  I'm Nakita Reed, and this is my show where I explore the interconnectedness of architecture, preservation, sustainability, race, and gender. I'm excited that you're here, so let's get into it.  Welcome back. It is officially conference season, and I had the joy of being at Green Build last week in Washington, D.C., and I'll be at APT in Noma next week on the West Coast.

So be sure to say hi if you're there.  You can stay up to date with the various speaking gigs that I'll be doing as well as get links to resources, scholarships, and other things that might be helpful to you by signing up for the new Tangible Remnants newsletter.

You can also now follow the podcast on LinkedIn where you'll be able to also connect with the various guests that come on the show.  This week's episode features one of those guests that you might want to connect with, especially if you're a student looking for internships with the federal government or a professional looking to connect with someone who has a wealth of information about the Advisory Council for Historic Preservation. 

The Advisory Council for Historic Preservation, also known as the  ACHP, is a federal agency that promotes the preservation, enhancement, and sustainable use of the nation's diverse historic resources and advises the President and Congress on national historic preservation policy.  I'm excited to be sharing this episode with you today because I get to have a great conversation with Susan Glimcher, who has worked as the Director of the Office of Communications, Education, and Outreach at the Advisory Council on Historic Preservation since 2008.  She works with the Executive Director and the Chairman to establish communication priorities, develop strategies, and implement them, and execute ACHP outreach efforts to educate audiences about the mission, programs, and responsibilities of the ACHP.  

She also determines the strategy and priorities of the agency's online presence.  One of her top priorities is working with students to bring them into awareness of historic preservation.

She's helped to launch several programs that bring students at historically Black colleges and universities, HBCUs, into federal lands and to experience how important preservation is to so many places and communities.  Susan started her career in the Northeast, so New York, Connecticut, and a little bit in California.

Doing advertising, marketing, and in the film industry as a director of creative services, and she's worked in DC supporting strategic communications for various companies, including Lockheed Martin Global Telecommunications and the Bureau of Consular Affairs within the Department of State.  In our conversation, we cover a number of programs that the ACHP administers and a few that I've had the pleasure to be involved with. 

I included links to the various items Susan mentioned in the episode show notes, but she also very graciously offered her email address and would also love to connect with you all on LinkedIn.  So if you do email her or connect with her on LinkedIn, be sure to mention that you heard her on the tangible remnants podcast. 

This week's building spotlight. It's one of the buildings highlighted on the ACHP's Federal Agency Preservation Outleasing Success Stories, and it is Floyd Bennett Field. Located in the New York metropolitan area, Floyd Bennett Field was listed on the National Register of Historic Places in 1981 due to its association with mid-20th-century commercial aviation architecture. 

The field opened in 1931  and served as a point of departure for the record-breaking flights of famous aviators such as Amelia Earhart and Howard Hughes. Head over to our Instagram page to see photos of the building and check the show notes for the two-page write-up that the ACHP did on the building as well. 

One final thing before we jump into the show, now that school is back in session, my Ask Me Anything sessions will be starting again this month in October. Check the link in the show notes or just go to NakitaReid.com forward slash AMA for more information.  Without further ado, I hope you enjoy this conversation between me and Susan Glimcher. 

I'm very excited that you're joining me today, Susan. And so I would love to really just start with what is the ACHP?  Lovely to be here. Thanks for inviting me. The Advisory Council on Historic Preservation is a very small independent federal agency. It was created by the passage of the National Historic Preservation Act in 1966. 

It's the only federal agency whose sole mission is historic preservation. And we oversee section 106 of the National Historic Preservation Act, NHPA.  The act was passed really to make sure that federal agencies would act responsibly with regard to historic resources in our country and that was a direct reaction to what happened after World War II. 

After World War II, the country was in, out with the old, in with the new mindset. Everybody was into urban renewal. You know, get rid of obsolete buildings, create new buildings.  We took down entire blocks of cities, neighborhoods, business districts, all to create kind of what was shiny and new.  And of course, there was pushback, and that's what resulted in the passage of the NHPA.

So, as you know, there are many sections to the NHPA, and it's been expanded and amended, but the ACHP's role is to oversee the Section 106 of the Act. And basically, Section 106 just requires federal agencies to act responsibly with regard to historic preservation and preservation. When their undertakings  affect historic properties, it could be sacred sites.

It could be a historic district, could be a historic building,  could be a cultural landscape and it asks federal agencies to engage in consultation with stakeholders while they are doing their undertaking.  And so then what was your journey to the ACHP? Because I know I didn't know what, what the ACHP was probably until college.

And so I'm curious, how did you get involved with the agency? Well, you are way ahead of me because I didn't know what the ACHP was until I started, you know, interviewing. My career started very far away in advertising  and the film industry in New York City and a little bit in L. A. I had no awareness of historic preservation. 

None. When I moved from California to DC I went to work at the Department of State as a contractor, and my boss said to me, you know, Susan, you should apply for this job. It would be really interesting.  And I'm in communication, so I, I really needed to learn about historic preservation, which can be very complicated. 

And then I had to discover what was really meaningful to me about preservation. Now, coincidentally.  I do live in a historic home in Maryland, which was built in 1903, so it's 120 years old.  And that was how I got into historic preservation.  Nice. It's often a very personal experience. I dig it.  And so then I know that more recently I've been able to work a little bit more with ACHP through doing programs like preservation and practice.

And then also kind of, I know you all have been doing a couple of different webinars, which we'll talk about a little bit later, but I guess, what are some of the things that excite you about some of the programs that you're working on or the ACHP is leading? Well, I'm pretty sure that you're going to be able to relate to this, but, or maybe not because you've been aware of historic preservation a lot longer than I have been, but when I took this job, which was over 15 years ago, one thing that hit me immediately was that when I was at conferences or events were meetings related to my job in historic preservation.

The audience was usually this sea of much older white ladies. Many with blue hair. Right. And I found that, Exceedingly disturbing, really disturbing,  and it just so happens that in  2006, before I started my job,  the agency hosted the Preserve America Summit, which was to recognize the 40th anniversary of the National Historic Preservation Act,  and the report that resulted from that  urged preservationists to promote cultural diversity when identifying historic properties by evaluating the National Register of Historic Places for its inclusiveness  and also encouraging local, state, and tribal governments to evaluate their own inventories. 

And as you know,  the ACHP was following many leaders in this field such as the National Trust for Historic Preservation, the National Park Service. Many preservation leaders were already hard at work at this.  And when I started, we proposed a new initiative that was called Building a More Inclusive Preservation Program. 

We also followed that with a youth strategic plan. Much of what we do in...  The agency and in my office, communications, education, and outreach comes from those two efforts.  So, I also just love students. I love young people.  It was clear in those very early years that it was essential to create what we always referred to as the next generation of preservationists. 

When I started working on this, I had a really difficult time getting people to accept the word inclusiveness, to be inclusive. This was over 15 years ago.  Everybody wanted to say diversity,  but you know,  to me, inclusiveness was expressing an interest in everyone.  Whereas I felt that diversity might have.

Specific meanings to some people and it's funny now because it's, it's a very big word right now,  but I just love working with students and in both, cultural heritage in the forest and preservation and practice, which we've been lucky enough to involve you in the ACHP brings students from historically black colleges and universities into summer programs on site.

So, for example, we work with the Forest Service,  which is within the U. S. Department of Agriculture,  on bringing students to work in the forests.  And we work with the National Trust for Historic Preservation and the National Park Service on preservation in practice.  And during the program,  They travel to work on site, they learn about the work that these organizations do.

They meet mentors and experts in all of these fields that are sort of related to preservation under the umbrella of cultural resource management. They do hands-on work on the land. The goal of the program is to bring these students into an awareness of how their careers, For example, archaeology.

Architecture, as you know, anthropology, and even history,  their careers have an intersection with historic preservation. Absolutely. And we, we hope that this program will bring a lot of them to work at these entities. And in fact, Preservation in Practice has indeed done that. Many of the students have worked in some capacity at either the National Trust or in the National Park Service. 

So, those programs are, are just great and it's honestly the best thing I do.  Let's talk a little bit about cultural heritage in the forest because I'm more familiar with preservation and practice. But when I hear cultural heritage and the forest, I'm thinking, I think more so of just like. trees and the dirt.

So I'm curious, are there like buildings in the forest? Are there other things in the forest that are happening aside from just nature?  You bet. The U. S. Forest Service oversees, I think, and I should look this up, 193 million anchors  in the United States and there are thousands of historic sites in these forests. 

Some sites relate to the Underground Railroad.  Certainly, many sites that come from  Native Americans and,  and then, of course, the historic sites that relate to the Forest Service itself. And so the students come in and part of this is wanting to bring them into the Heritage Program, which is within the Forest Service. 

The Heritage Program is the program under which  the Federal Preservation Officer, Doug Stevens,  oversees the work that happens in forests about preservation, making sure that all of these leaders in the Forest Service know about Section 106,  that they are being responsible for about these historic sites and one of the most important things for the Forest Service, I know, is that they want to ensure that the full and true story of what has transpired going back thousands of years in these forests, they want to make sure that that true story is told. 

So it, it has a lot to do with education and interpretation and those kinds of things. It's a wonderful program.  And another part of the program that is so important is also the mentoring, the networking.  I'm still in touch with students from  2018 from preservation and practice who asked me to do reference letters for them, or they asked me if I can make a connection for them and, and, you know,  Most of what we get in our careers has to do with the people we know, right?

They help us make connections.  So that's a huge part of the program.  That's so cool. And yeah. So thank you for elaborating. Cause I definitely, I'm going to assume that there are probably other listeners who are just thinking trees and dirt in the forest, but yeah, you're right. There's so much more. And 190 some million acres, that's a lot of land with thousands.

Oh, my gosh. That's fantastic.  That's so cool. And the other thing is, it is a lot about trees and dirt. For example, there's a site in Maryland that I've, I was just contacted about recently. It is a former, it is a historic site and it is connected to a historic town where  Slaves who had been emancipated moved into this little area in town. 

And of course, much of the town has been destroyed by developers.  But, believe it or not,  there are descendants from the original families living there.  And one of the problems they face is that in all the development, they've taken down all the trees.  So there's no tree canopy.  So this is a place where the forest service would like to plant trees, indigenous trees, and indigenous shrubs to help fight climate change. So that is a part of it as well.  That's so fascinating.  It's really cool to speak to someone.

I met this wonderful woman whose family, her ancestors actually originally moved into this little town when they were emancipated.

And she is still in the same house.  Oh my gosh. That's wild. That's wild and amazing. And I'm very glad to know that there are programs helping to make sure that that story can be told. Oh, I'm so excited to hear more once you can talk about it,  but that's great.  We're going to take a quick break from the show and we'll be right back. 

Hey, are you a college student who'd like to buy me coffee to pick my brain?  I don't really like coffee. So how about a tall caramel apple spice instead?  And how about we make it virtual?  One of the reasons I started this podcast was to help design students, particularly women and people of color, to feel less alone in their studies, and to see that there are people who look like them who have always been impacting the built environment. 

Since I've started the podcast, a number of students have reached out via social media, and we've set up times to chat about whatever was on their mind at the time. And as much as I have loved connecting with the various students that I've met so far, there's just not enough hours in the day to connect with everyone. 

So I figured I'd experiment with a different format and see how it goes.  Periodically, I'll offer an AMA chat session and make space for 10 to 15 students to join me for an hour.  AMA stands for Ask Me Anything, for those of you who are wondering.  So, if you're a student, interested in meeting a few other students from around the country, and interested in asking me questions about the profession, what to look for in your grad school, starting a business, how to deal with imposter syndrome, Or just life in general, head over to my website, Nakitareed.com forward slash AMA to learn more. I look forward to chatting with you.  And now let's get back to the show.  

And so I know one of the other, in addition to cultural heritage in the forest and preservation and practice, I know there's also a number of white house initiatives that the ACHP is involved in.

So I guess let's talk about those too.  Sure. I love the White House initiative on HBCUs, and I will say that in my long career, too long to even tell you how long, I have never attended a conference or an event or any kind of gathering where the work we are all doing has been met with the same amount of enthusiasm and interest As when we have audiences from HBC use, whether it's leadership, whether it's faculty, and especially if it's the students,  I mean, the audiences that we work with are absolutely amazing.

The students I have really, I'd have to say I've met very few other students who I think are at the same level as many of these students. They are so engaged. And they just, they take everything in like a sponge. And I just love working with the White House initiative. There are many members of federal agencies on the initiative.

The team, the staff is marvelous and they're so supportive of everything that we do. We are a federal agency with only 40 people. We do not have a lot of financial resources, so we cannot. For example, invest the millions of dollars that we should be able to in HBCUs. So we do things like we hold webinars.

We have a webinar series every year. This year, we covered everything from mobilizing community preservation. Saving black history, the Gullah Geechee Islands, creating a future in preservation, history right on your campus, which was about preserving HBCUs, because we want to bring attention to the fact that these are historic campuses, and as you know, they all need to be preserved, and then we have one more called preserving historic black churches,  and another thing that we do With the White House initiative as we present, we presented their annual conference, which is just such a wonderful gathering.

We offer sessions. We belong to a group called the Arts, Humanity and History Group, Library of Congress, the National Endowment for the Arts, the National Endowment for Humanities, the Institute of Museum and Library Services.  I'm probably forgetting someone, but we offer sessions with them to let faculty and leadership and students know that there are jobs available in the arts, in the humanities, in history.

This is important because many schools are dropping their history programs right now, and I think that might be partially related to the pendulum swing of STEM. And many of our programs support STEM,  sciences, technology, mathematics, but we want schools to know that there are still many careers available to these students. 

Yeah, absolutely. So I'm loving that, that it's a whole initiative. Is it a mix of a number of different agencies? It sounds like with, and I guess the administration, let's talk a little bit more about how the White House initiative works. Well, the White House initiative on HBCUs, the bill was signed originally by Jimmy Carter and every president since his time, but every president since President Carter has signed that initiative.

There are a number of federal agencies, a large number of them that are on the initiative, and we all work together to try to support.  Historically black colleges and universities in many different ways. It's a great group and I listen to the accomplishments at all of our meetings and feel very small because the amount of work and the amount of, of progress that has been made by these wonderful agencies is, is absolutely astounding.

Honestly, I do not know how Executive director Dr. Trent and the staff on the White House initiative managed to keep it all straight. But this is a big priority for the current administration and we love supporting it because we love working with these students. That's great. Yeah. I don't think I realized that the program was that old.

That's fantastic. Cause I guess I was thinking it was, there's been some renewed interest in HBCUs, particularly with some of the work that the National Trust is doing and like the Save America's Treasures and those kinds of things. And kind of, there's been more of an effort to do more preservation plans for HBCUs and all that.

I know that the Getty did some push on it in the early 2000s as well. So, it's great that there's still this focused effort to make sure that HBCUs are getting the attention that's needed to get more students into these fields, because you're right, there are so many different ways to be involved and preservation touches so many allied fields, such preservation and vice versa.

So that's super exciting. But the truth is that organizations like the National Trust for Historic Preservation, the National Park Service, many of these preservation organizations do so much more than the ACHP can. And you're right. The trust has been a huge leader in this.  Yes. And  I think that the work that the ACHP is doing to continue elevating it, particularly as a federal agency, I think that's just huge.

Like having the backing of a federal agency, I think is still crazy impressive and amazing. And so I'll make sure to put a link in the show notes to the various webinars that you'd mentioned. I know I was very fortunate to participate in one of those webinars, talking about kind of the future preservation and different job options, depending upon where you want to go into the field.

One of the other things I'd love to chat about knowing that there are so many different students that are listening. And I love that you hit on the fact that a lot of the programs also highlight mentorship or provide mentorship opportunities for the students. Are there any other things that you'd want to highlight for any students who are listening as they're trying to figure out where they might want to?

Start their careers.  Of course.  First of all, any student who is interested in learning more is welcome to email me. Because there are so many opportunities right now. Our work is under the umbrella of cultural resource management, and there is a huge workforce shortage right now. And some of the statistics are, you know. 

This is an older statistic, but that most carpenters in the United States are in their mid fifties and retiring. And people who don't know about skilled historic preservation trades because people are not moving into that. And so there is much to be done. And if students would like to Google.  ACHP and then workforce development  and workforce is one word.

So it's ACHP workforce development. If they Google that, it'll take them to a page on our website that has a very long list of organizations, including the national trust and others that we know that have job openings, internships. scholarships. They're all over the place. Federal agencies have so much interest in bringing students into work in these fields. 

So I would say just google internships, preservation or scholarships. Preservation.  And you'll come up with a lot.  Yeah, that's great. And I'll make sure to also put links to all that stuff in the show notes as well. Cause I think that's one of the things that you're right. There are so many trades people who are aging out, if you will, and needing to educate more of the next generation on, Hey, there are some other options.

You don't necessarily have to go study and be an architect or you don't necessarily have to go to college. There are plenty of trades and specialized fields you can get into. Which are still very viable, lucrative options and very exciting as well. I know a number of people who really just want to be able to work with their hands and it's like, they don't want to sit at a desk.

Like they want to be actually doing work, building things. There's a very large need for that right now. And then of course there are the. Horrifying statistics that you know about all too well related to diversity. I haven't seen anything on this lately, but I believe I read several years ago that 0.3  of licensed architects are black women.  Yeah. And so that's still about the same. So like of the 120, 000 ish licensed architects, about 566. are licensed black women architects. So to put that in perspective, there's just great comparison where it's more people have been to space than there are licensed black women architects.

That is, that is just.  Almost more than I can take in, really. Exactly. And on the one hand, it's like, that's wild. On the other hand, it's like, I didn't realize that more than 600 people have gone to space. Like that's kind of mind blowing in itself, but yeah, it's just the stats aren't quite there. That's one of the things that as I kind of was digging more into, and there's been a lot more research on it as well, realizing that.

Part of that reason is that it's not just that, oh, there's just not that many black women who are interested in architecture. A lot of it also has to do with, you know, in order to become a licensed architect, you had to have a certain education and many black women weren't allowed into the universities to get that education until the late seventies with the passage of some federal legislation.

And so while there were a few licensed black women architects in 20th century, they were more of the exception than the rule. So it's kind of, well, hopefully in the next 10 years, our numbers will keep increasing. But yeah, there's not many of us, unfortunately. And I feel strongly that it's our responsibility, your responsibility, my responsibility to bring these students into awareness of these careers.

And do everything we can to help them. Yeah, exactly. Because one of the things that sometimes I get is, particularly when I'm talking to some younger Black students, it's, They're like, Oh, I didn't realize that we be meaning like black women or black people in general could be architects because they just hadn't seen that many black architects in the field.

So they didn't think it was something that we did. So you know, it's being able to be an example, also share with people the different options to help others find their own path.  Yeah. So I'm very grateful for the work that you're doing. Thank you. And let me just add one more thing. So in August of 1980, President Jimmy Carter signed Executive Order 12232. 

Wow. And that directed the Secretary of Education to implement a federal initiative designed to achieve a significant increase  in the participation by historically Black colleges and universities in federally sponsored programs. 

Wow.  Wow. I did not realize it went back that far though. That's amazing. It seems recent to me. It does.  But like, it's funny. Cause when you said Jimmy Carter, I was like, Oh man, that was a long time ago. But then when you said 1980, I was like, wait a minute. That wasn't that long ago.  No. Huh? Wow. What can we say?

600 years too late, but I guess  we didn't even have HBCUs back in those days. Right.  Right. Yeah. Well, hopefully the, the program will keep growing and yeah, that's fascinating. And, and also know, cause you know, I think right now there's about a hundred or so HBCUs, but only seven have architecture programs and.

There's even a smaller number that have preservation programs. And so getting more, more students in preservation programs at HBCUs is also something that has been an ongoing push. And I think as we're telling more of the fuller story of history and helping people of color and others understand that  Everyone, every color, every nationality that's here has been here.

I think it's just for so long, history's only kind of focused on celebrating the white male. So being able to really tell more of the full story to be like, listen, there's more history here. I think that's going to continue to get more people of color and more diverse backgrounds interested in being in the field because they're realizing that they're not just telling the story of.

The old white dude.  Well, of course I agree a hundred percent and that's why it's very important for us to really educate ourselves, research, and, and the truth is, it's not up to me to tell the stories of descendants from enslaved people. It is up to communities, to individuals who wanna celebrate their heritage and they should.

You know, the story of America is vast. Some of it is ugly. Some of it is divisive, some of it is beautiful, but we really need everyone to tell their stories. That's how we celebrate historic preservation or preservation in general. And  it's very important that we continue to do so. I agree with you. Yeah, absolutely.

And so, and I think, What we're doing in terms of helping people understand the different tools that are available to communities and to be able to tell those stories and document them in a way that can then be shared is something I'm getting increasingly excited about.  Let me add one more thing about your comments about preservation programs.

Again, you know, I am not an expert in this, and I'm sure I'm wrong about some of this, but again, part of the whole movement towards STEM and You know, going back to the 1990s, or whenever, when education cities started cutting back funds for education, we lost so many of these programs. So, the only two HBCUs that I know of that even have a minor in Historic Preservation are Tuskegee and Morgan State.

So yes, I believe there are only seven or even less that have architecture programs. So these are the kinds of programs we need to be telling people about because they are important. Yeah, absolutely.  Oh my goodness. This is so fun. So  as we are wrapping up any advice that you have for any students who may be listening?

Yes, absolutely. When you're in school, which was a long time ago for me, it's a chance for you to open your eyes to everything going on in the world. to explore, to practice, to try. And there are so many things to become involved in. I can't tell you, Nakita, how many students have said to me, I've never heard of historic preservation. 

I went to a job fair for HBCUs and it was mostly high school students.  No one had heard of preservation.  We are not doing a good enough job in our work and in our field to get information out there about how much there is available for students,  especially in cultural resource management, archaeology, anthropology, or in history or in preservation or conservation.

There is so much to know and so much to explore. So I would just really...  urge students or, you know, professors who are interested in professional development,  explore everything you can look and see what you might be missing.  Because there are often intersections between careers in history, careers in architecture, certainly you have to know about preservation. 

Archaeology is a part of preservation. So look around and see where these intersections are and take advantage of the many, many opportunities that are open to you.  Thank you so much for listening. Links to amazing resources can be found in the episode's show notes. Special thanks to Sarah Gilberg for allowing me to use snippets of her song Fireflies from her debut album, Other People's Secrets,  which by the way is available wherever music is sold. 

If you haven't already, be sure to subscribe to the show.  And now that Tangible Remnants is part of the Gabl Media Network, you can listen and subscribe to all network partner content at gablmedia. com. That's G A B L media dot com.  Until next time, remember that historic preservation is a present conversation with our past about our future.

We don't inherit the earth from our parents, but we borrow it from our children. So let's make sure we're telling our inclusive history.  I saw the first fireflies. 

Right then, I thought of you.  Oh, I could see us catching them and setting them free.  Honey, that's what you do.  That's what you do to me.