Making Sense of Solar with Jordan Taylor

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If not you, then who is going to rely on us and the next generation does?  We are the only ones that have the power and we only got one planet. We're the ones that are going to save us. No one's coming.  Exactly. We're the Calvary. 

Welcome to tangible remnants.  I'm Nakita Reed, and this is my show where I explore the interconnectedness of architecture, preservation, and sustainability. Race and gender. I'm excited that you're here. So let's get into it.  Welcome back this week. I'm talking to the very energetic Jordan Taylor, CEO of Synergy Grid LLC.

This episode left me fired up about solar and excited about the future. Jordan definitely is a reminder of how important it is to follow your interests because they can lead you to your life's work.  By the end of this episode, you may pick up some new lingo, hashtag banana sandwiches, and have a better understanding of what Jordan means when he says, that while money doesn't grow on trees, it does fall from the sky. 

There are helpful resources in the show notes, and be sure to check out our Instagram page at tangible remnants to see photos of the historic buildings that we talk about that his family owns.  Jordan is such a good time and super impressive. He is an experienced clean energy expert with over a decade of experience and the renewable energy industry throughout his career.

He's excelled in various roles, including real estate and renewable energy, EPC, contracting, energy, finance, business development, and energy policy.  His technical expertise, combined with his passion for sustainable energy initiatives, makes him a driving force in the renewable energy sector. Having worked with various Fortune 500 companies and a number of energy and sustainability-based organizations, Jordan has honed his skills in driving equitable and impactful renewable energy projects to fruition. 

His tenure with green banks has solidified his commitment to creating innovative solutions for green energy access while leveraging his expertise to advance the adoption of renewable technologies as a 3x founder. Jordan has been instrumental in pioneering groundbreaking initiatives that promote sustainable energy practices and drive the transition towards greener solutions. 

His dedication to making a difference in exploring diverse opportunities and collaborations is what underscores his commitment to shaping a better future through renewable energy for future generations to come. He has extensive knowledge and multiple verticals and hands-on experience in the energy finance and development landscape, which makes him a very accomplished veteran and shaping the renewable energy sector.

His passion for a greener tomorrow continues to inspire positive change, making him a vital contributor to the sustainability industry. Jordan's passion for solar is deep and comes through clearly in this episode. It's a really fun one and I hope you enjoy it. So without further ado, I hope you enjoy this conversation between me and Jordan Taylor. 

Well, I am so excited that you have joined me on the show. I know that you are a man of many talents. And so I would love for you to introduce yourself to the audience. Well, thanks for having me on. So I'm Jordan. So I'm the CEO of Synergy Grid. We are a sustainable real estate development company. We specialize in energy-efficient housing and renewable energy.

We also build microgrid communities, and I can dig into more about what microgrid communities are a little bit later.  Amazing. And I love that you are doing both the development and the real estate, all the things I have so many questions. And why don't we actually go ahead and talk about what got you into this?

Because I feel like it's such a specialty and there are not that many people doing what you're doing. Yeah. So I guess, let me see how I got into energy. If I really, if you really want to take it all the way back, my seventh-grade science fair project was a vertical wind turbine. So. Yeah. 

Well, my dad, my dad is, uh, he's a contractor builder and, you know, I've been banging hammers since I was in Pampers and, you know, always was interested and fascinated in tools and building things, and I think it was actually a, uh, stater from an edger. So. This is a device that actually goes and cleans up lawns.

And I was always like destroying things, just taking things apart. And I was like, well, the thing is, I know that you can put energy electricity through this thing and make it turn this blade.  Can you do the other direction and make it make energy? And so I went on this journey to figure this out. So me, my little seventh-grade self, you know, trying to get my science teachers, which were.

And it's middle school, so they're all bio teachers. And, you know, they helped me find one of the physics teachers who could help me. And so, I ended up going to the high school, uh, where my sister was going to school and met one of my teachers, Mr. Willis. And he's telling me all about electromagnetics and, and stators and permanent magnet wires.

And my little seventh-grade brain is leaking out of my ears. And I was like, this is crazy. It was a banana sandwich. And I was like, Yes, like, more of this, please.  Ended up having him for high school. So, he, I, he taught physics, you know, while I was, all throughout high school. And he got me into robotics. 

The funny thing is, he helped me get a job. So,  well, I guess, fast forward. I go to college. I know he's a Penn State alum. I transferred to Penn State and I knew he was from the area. I call him up, Willie D., what's good? You know, I'm trying to find some places to go eat and, you know, a place for my people to stay.

And he was like, yeah, give me a second.  And I thought he was going to call me back with some places to go.  And I recognize that white cobalt anywhere. And I was like, What are you doing here? I see him driving down the street and he's like, yeah, I'm a professor here now. So I ended up having him for my statics class, my dynamics class, and one of my nuclear engineering classes.

And I was like, this is high school all over again because literally, my statics class was the AP physics C class, like all over again. And I'm like, look, I need to get credit for this. Cause I've already taken this class like twice already. Okay.  But he ended up helping me get a job. I was working over in California, got a tour of SpaceX and was working on some projects adjacent to them.

Turns out to probably be something on Starlink, but I don't know if I'm at liberty to discuss that stuff, you know, but I got a tour of SpaceX and that place more banana sandwiches. It's like, as far as you can see, just rockets on rockets on rockets. And, you know, you, you can essentially like. This dude was in the future and this was like in 2011.

So way ahead of his time. And I was like, I need to get involved.  There was Tesla at the time, which was just starting up and then solar city, and I was like, that's my speed. So that was actually like my foray into it. So thank you, Mr. Willis. If you're listening to this podcast, really appreciate you for, for putting me on to so many things.

But that was actually like my kind of trajectory on how I got into renewables was, you know, finding out I had a knack for engineering and kind of taking that, you know, little part of spark of me, you know, and, and really, uh, kind of reemerged after I found my way into, I guess the, the engineering space. 

That's amazing. Yes. Definitely. Shout out to the teachers who definitely inspire and shape the young minds because that's amazing that you had him in so many touch points in your life. That's fantastic. Yeah. I mean, he's, he's awesome. He's a great guy. Like that's fantastic. And so I love that you then went on and now you're CEO. 

And so how did the company come about and kind of what prompted you to want to start the company? Yeah, yeah. So I think that was, I think it probably may have already been a natural progression. I started in solar cities, I was doing sales and that was maybe after a few years, uh, after doing engineering.

And, you know, I was not a salesperson, you know, we're doing very much CAD stuff. You know, I'm on, you know, manufacturing floors, doing a lot of design stuff. I got to work by myself for the most part, and I didn't have to talk to people. Sales was not my thing. I was actually terrible. I was awful. I was gone awful.

Like when I first started, I'm telling breaking down photovoltaics, the photoelectric effect for people. And they're like, I don't know about any of this stuff. I just, I want to get some solar panels. They said it were free. Like,  and you know, it was, it was maybe about three, four months into it, but something must've clicked.

Because then it just started working for me. So I did pretty well, uh, started progressing and ended up getting promoted maybe like two or three times made national records, you know, sales across the board from Maryland to California. And, and then I started getting headhunted by a bunch of the others, you know, your Vivints, your Sunruns, your, your legacies, Blue Ravens, you name it.

And, you know, I, I'd made my rounds there and I was like, Man, it's something about like, this is awesome, but like, we just did like 22 million for this, you know, company.  I didn't see any piece of that. And again, I grew up most, a lot of my family are entrepreneurs. So I was like, I'm building sales teams. I know how to run a shop.

I was like, I can do this myself. So I did it. I started actually my first company. It's called Last Planet Solutions. And this is, uh, up in New Jersey, that was a solar company and, you know, we were doing well there, but my, you know, my partners, my co-founders, they weren't interested in doing a lot of the EPC side on doing the construction.

And I felt like that was a better opportunity to get more quality control. On our installations, because we were getting a lot of callbacks with EPC engineering, procurement and construction. So when installing a solar system, you traditionally will meet your sales representative and they'll tell you about a lot of the system, but you still have to get the systems built.

So the design portion usually goes through an engineering firm, the procurement, you know, relationship with suppliers, getting all the parts, the panels, the wiring, the inverters, and then you actually have the building piece. And those are usually three different firms. And so that's traditionally what we'll say on the back end after that sales piece happens. 

So a lot of your relationships for your sunruns and your solar cities, that's traditionally how they're operate if they don't have a construction crew and engineering crews in-house to be able to do those things. And so, you know, after, you know, months and months of trying to get them, I was like, all right, look, well, I definitely want to do this.

And I had already started my own real estate portfolio and had been doing energy efficiency upgrades, doing installation for the addicts and, you Properties had panels. Cause I went to go talk to my customers and they were like, well, do you have someone in like the first person that actually asked me that?

And I didn't, I felt so ashamed. I was like, all right. All right. You're right. You're right. You're right. So I started putting it on all the properties.  One of the things I was seeing was that the property started performing a lot better because we would bake in the energy costs, because now I'm getting costs half or a third of the costs to the utility.

And then I can just sell that to the consumer and we get to share the savings. And so that was actually one of the, the first kind of, the first part of, of what Synergy Grid is today. And after seeing like how effective that was,  They said, Hey, you know, we don't think we want to go that route. I was like, Hey, no, look, no harm, no foul, but this is definitely the move.

And there for the entire time that I had been within the solar space, I had always, you know, had my one, one foot in real estate and one foot in renewables and all of my real estate guys. I'm like. Why don't you guys, you know, embrace solar? I would imagine that your op-ex would go down dramatically. You know, you've got control over your power.

You can market that your solar sustainable type of building, whether it be, you know, a restaurant, whether it be a multifamily, whether it be a hotel. But they're just so stuck in the past. And that was one of the things that was, I guess it, it was difficult to kind of, you know, get them there until I could show them, you know, Hey, look, look at these bills, look at, look at this balance sheet, this is, this is pretty awesome, right?

And so that was kind of what Synergy Grid, the impetus for starting Synergy Grid was, was really to set the example, set the precedent because. When I think about solar, those things go together for me, like real estate and solar, peanut butter and jelly, you know, it's one and the same. And I don't, I don't think that we should really think about them as separate,  especially now, you know, the solar roof, the solar tiles and shingles.

We're very much a buzz. This is back in 2016, you know, when they were first kind of announced and GAF had already had a few versions of it, a couple other companies, and those were really exciting, but they never really made it to like commercial viability, but it was just like, that's great that they were thinking about it.

But why, why is this further along? Why isn't this just a part of how we construct buildings with the technology that we have? It just makes sense. And we're maximizing the value of the roof. You know, you've got additional protections if you just want to do panels. And if we did shingles, now you've got 30, 40, 50 year shingles that also produce power.

What are we doing here? I don't understand. Like what the math isn't matching for me. Yeah, exactly. Like it seems like such an obvious connection. Like what is the holdup? Why aren't we doing it? Yeah. Like what's going on?  So that was kind of what I set out to do figure out, Hey, where are the issues?

Where are the sticking points? Because they seem like this is way harder than it really is. And you know, that was a lot of, you know, what it took. So I decided to make my way, uh, back, to good old Maryland and, and start her up.  Yeah. I love that you did. And I know that the incentives and all the financing and a lot of the money that's coming out through various programs right now, solar is hot.

What are you kind of seeing in the market in terms of some of the financing or even kind of incentives and things that are out there? Yeah. And it's so crazy that solar is now the cool kid, you know, it used to be like, I try to tell people, and this is like 2012, 2013, they're like, Hey, you guys ever thought about solar?

And then they look at me sideways. Like I had six heads or something. Like, what do you mean? I'm not made of money. You know, there's no way those solar things work. That's only for the, you know, the spaceship space shuttles and stuff,  you know? So when it comes to solar, because. When you think about your home,  you will put a 30-year mortgage on your home and you'll pay that off over a lifetime, but you own it.

We don't necessarily blink an eye. We don't bat an eye at paying the utility for, I  mean, how long do we expect to live? 50, 60, 70 ish years.  Every day, just every month paying them bill after bill, and you never actually own it, but you get an opportunity to own the power that you produce on your roof.  So, that is a really big piece of if you were to say, Hey, look, I can give you the financing to own all the power that you're going to produce for the rest of your life because these systems last.

30 plus years without any substantial degradation, like after 30 years, you might still be getting at least 80, 90 percent efficiency out of it. If you, especially if you've got some good quality panels and there's a 30 percent tax credit. So everybody said, Oh, tax credit is going away. Tax credit is going away.

Well, you better get it now. So 30 percent of your cost of the system round numbers and he's, you know, varies greatly, but if you got 50, 000 bucks, About 20-something thousand is coming back to you. In the form of a tax credit and please consult your, your tax advisor. I'm not a tax professional,  all the disclaimers,  but 30 percent of that comes back in the form of a tax credit.

But then on top of that, after you have the tax credit, which is a big chunk, you then also, depending on what state you live in, I'm in Maryland, you get what are called RECs.  So they're. Renewable energy credits. This is for any renewable generation system. So if you have a wind turbine, if you've got solar panels, if you've got geothermal, they all generate.

Renewable energy credits that you're able to sell.  So in Maryland, they actually will pay you. Sometimes you can get them all sold upfront. You'll they're paid on the production of the system. So if you have a 10 kilowatt system, you'll get 10 credits and whatever the value of the credits are. Okay. In DC they're $500.

In Maryland, they're 50 bucks, so they swing like that.  But over a lifetime of the system, you're talking some thousands of dollars. So now that usually accounts for about another five to sometimes 15%, you know? And again, if you're in DC it might be even 25% of the cost of your system. So 30%,  I'm say again, another 10%, 40% of your total cost just from the tax credit and from the recs. 

And on top of that,  if you're in a state, generally any of these states that have the renewable energy credits have what's called net metering. So now, let's say you go on vacation, or you're just super efficient. And you're sending power back to the grid. You actually the utility is required to pay you for that excess power.

And so it won't be at the same exact rate. They'll usually give you the generation rate. But again, that was that's money that you weren't going to see. And again, you were going to be paying for.  So that could be another couple 100 bucks or so, you know, a year. Those are the credits that most people are generally available to access, but then there are state credits and there are grants.

So, if you go on to the D S. I. R. E. that's a site that you'll be able to find any incentives on energy and energy efficiency. That will help you pay for the cost of a. A circuit breaker upgrade, because sometimes it might require you to get, you know, more breakers in your panel, or may you may have to cover the cost of a revert, you know, to install the solar system.

And so there are a number of additional incentives that come on top of that. But even before that, if you just pay for your system cash. You would already be saving at least 20 percent on your power. All right. All right. That's what I'm saying. Like, so already on a kilowatt for kilowatt basis, if I paid that 50, 000, We're looking at 50, 000, you know, in a lifetime easy, you know, we're probably paying that in about 20 years.

So, because the average person is probably paying anywhere from about, and this is a super, you know, we're talking to America right now, anywhere from in a year, about 1200, some places, if you're in like a New Jersey and New York or California, some people pay like 3000 bucks a year. So you can eat very quickly, recapture that that cause.

But then after that, you've got all the other incentives. So solar reached cost parity, probably about 2014, 2015, I believe. And so even if we were just. And I, a lot of the conversation I have is on an economic benefits, you know, conversation.  You're already getting an economic benefit.  Why would we opt for murdering the planet?

If you can also save money and do something for your lungs and for the next generations and for other people. Yeah. I love that. You're going to pay more money to murder everyone like it doesn't make sense. Makes no sense. Makes no sense.  Turn your architectural designs into stunning, immersive experiences with Enscape,  this innovative tool integrate seamlessly with your design software to bring your ideas to life in real-time, 3d, and VR  with Enscape, you will experience instant rendering.

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I know some of the pushback that I sometimes hear about people who are dubious or suspicious of solar panels. They're always concerned that the technology is not good, that the panels are trash, that you don't want to lease your roof or you don't want to own the system. There's all of these. hurdles that people kind of put up to prevent themselves from kind of making the switch to solar energy because it's not comfortable.

They're not sure about what it is or their misbeliefs and their, uh, all of that stuff. What would you say to someone who was skeptical about why or how to do it or what's the best way?  Now that's not to be dismissive of them. One, everybody's entitled to their opinions,  but one of the things I should say is check.

More times than not, most of these salespeople, granted, they will try to sell you, so, you know, you don't have to buy anything and don't sign anything if you're not comfortable, but just check, see what those costs look like.  Do the numbers. Ooh, you got to do math. Sorry guys.  But, but just do the cost calculation and see if it makes sense because sometimes it actually very well may not.

Maybe your roof is too small. Maybe there are additional costs. Maybe you don't have the right provider. If they're in a place where there might not be as many incentives, you know, sometimes in The South Dakota where the cost of their energy is super low and there are no state incentives and state credits.

I understand that there are potentials for there to be situations. A lot of people in the United States own mass on the aggregate. Most people are going to save money and you have this surety that the prices are going to be locked in because  That was one of the things that I was always thinking about, like, man, this inflation rate that we're thinking about, or we're baking into the pricing.

I was like, is this really going to be a thing? And this was 10 years ago. And I was like, Whoa, that we totally underestimated that inflation. It's crazy.  Right. So just in that, that price protection there. But then also you, people talk about like the technology specifically, and then the efficiencies, there's actually a theoretical conversion efficiency.

And I'm sorry about the nerd. I love it on, but the theoretical conversion efficiency caps out the panel production depends on which numbers you're using, but it's anywhere from 22 to 40%, depending on, you know, what things we're considering. But. We have neared that threshold. Most of the panels that are being produced now are at about that 18, 19 percent, uh, efficiency, conversion efficiency.

So it's, it's diminishing returns on waiting later for any panel, especially on market today.  Then we talk about the longevity.  If you purchase, let's just call it a vehicle. How long do you expect to drive that thing until you start to have to do maintenance? You start to do wear and tear and it's like, oh, it's not getting you as much. 

15 years,  20 years is. And I think that that is mighty generous. Yeah. But imagine if you purchase a system. In 20 years,  manufacturers guarantee a 90% functionality. So if you've got a 10,000 kilowatts and in 20 years you're producing less than 9,000, they will come out and swap out a panel or, you know, update your system or repair the, the, the broken panels so that your system is producing that projected amount.

And so the guarantees any go anywhere from 97% to about 90%. That's, you know, industry-standard currently. And the warranties have been increasing to 25 and 30 years. So that's just a testament to the technology. It's a silicon wafer. It's solid-state technology. It works. It just produces electricity. It's not like you're getting fancier electricity for the different kinds and styles of panels, you know,  and you know, a lot of people like to compare it to, you know, iPhones and, and Androids.

There is no variability, like there's no changes in the style or type of panel. That's going to get you better quality electricity. You may have, you know, maintenance or, or having to swap out that panel but look at the guarantees, as long as your service warranties and stuff are in place.  You got electricity, you got power, and then you always have the backup as the grid, or you can always use battery storage.

So it's, it's, it's tough. Like, I mean, sitting down with me, like, I can get answer any question that you've got, because I want to nerd out on this. I love this stuff. It's so cool to me that we can just look up and, and the, one of the best things on the, this is one of my fun quotes,  is that money doesn't grow on trees.

But it falls from the sky.  Oh, I love that. Listen, I'm writing that down. And it's just like, we look up and see this moneymaker every day, but we, we, let's go outside, put some buckets out. Let's go catch this free money, y'all. Right. Oh, I love that.  See this, this is why I'm so glad that we're talking because this is the things that I am so excited that you are talking about and also giving people more information on.

And so y'all, y'all heard it. Check. If you've been curious about doing solar hesitant, Check, run the numbers, or even reach out to Jordan. I'm sure he has some people who can help you out to make sure. Look, I got you. I got you. Exactly. Just give me a call. Yes. Well, so one of the things that I want to pivot before we wrap up.

So how we met. was on. I saw you on the sizzle reel for a show that is in the works right now. And I remember watching the sizzle reel and you coming on and talking about solar and renewables in the context of what's happening on this farm with this historic building and wanting to do agrovoltaics.

What is agrovoltaics? I was like, Oh, solar, solar panels in the, in the field. Got it. That makes sense. But then when I was learning more and see, I was like, wait, he's in Baltimore. I need to know him. So I was so glad that you and your family are doing this. And so I would love for you to talk more about what's going on with that project.

Yes. Yep. Yep. So my family, we own a farm down in Southern Virginia, and it's actually a historic plantation. One that my grandfather worked on also my great uncle, my great uncle, Kelly, I'm actually named after him mentally and they both actually worked on this. It would tell a story is your uncle Kelly.

We're talking when we got it. He told us a bunch of stories about working and picking tobacco and he would get his nickel for the week. He would have to go to the back door and get it. But, you know, the people there were, were really nice, but we have actually gone about doing restoration for the property and, you know, because this is a part of our family history, it's a part of our heritage and we want to preserve it. 

But I also got forgot 1 foot in the past, but also 1 foot in the future, and wanting to get a happy blend of. Doing the restoration and making sure that this is something that we can keep in our family for generations. And also, you know, to be able to show, you know, not only my family, but anybody else who comes to see it, what the potential possibilities are for people that look like us.

And that's one of the things that, you know, I come by that a lot of people don't necessarily have hope. They don't have anything that they can attach it to don't have any.  That's anything that's real or tangible, but just to be able to hear the story, so many people, you know, because initially it was, uh, one of my cousins, they, you know, they purchased another lot, but they were like, that's so exciting that, you know, you guys get to know your heritage, you know, your history and what the restoration of this will kind of, it'll be like a memorial or a, well, it'll, it'll memorialize essentially our progress.

You know, when we come from small town, Virginia, and, you know, now being able to work at green banks and have started renewable energy companies,  there is a path of progression. And this is what this looks like. And so what we've been doing has been as much as possible, keeping all of the buildings, original elements and the original essence of the building there.

While we're doing this restoration, but also thinking about how do we preserve this? How do we keep the performance? And I've since day one insulation, make sure we're doing high performance. How are we, you know, making sure that this is going to stay here for another 200 years, because the building itself is, is 1800s, uh, late 1800s and it's dirty.

It is when you talk about high quality, like they've got slow growth wood in there and everything about it. It is just immaculate detail because they did not have power tools to be able to construct this stuff. You know, they're hand-hewn logs, you know, we were looking to restore the log cabin and this is the original component or the original part of the building.

And there have been since, uh, additions, but. The original logs, you can see the, the actual, you know, somebody going in with a planer by hand because not, you know, you got the chips and stuff in the logs. And it's just like, to really be able to appreciate that kind of stuff. You know, I would, there would be a disgrace to, to ever go and demolish a site like that, like those kinds of things need to be preserved and need to be protected.

So that's a part of, of what the show is, is really been exploring is our journey on how we're going through this renovation, some of the updates, because, you know, obviously my aunts and they want the nice kitchen and we do a lot of cooking down there. That's the only reason I'm such a little piglet. I go down there and I eat real good. 

They want to make sure that the kitchen is nice. And we've got the log cabin room that we'll be doing the, we've been doing the restoration for. So, you know, we've done some updates and making sure that we've got good air ceiling. So, you know, reaching to a lot of the logs, you know, in, in staining and protecting them so that they don't have any additional moisture absorb an additional moisture or have any issues with mold.

And ultimately what we'll likely be doing to at least try to approach some sort of, hopefully, we get to passive house. That's going to be tough and amazing. If you did talk, that's a whole nother episode. 

But we'll, we'll likely be going. And that's what I'll bring you down for is, is doing that exterior refit so that we can get, you know, proper exterior air ceiling as well as the insulation, because that is a lot of what we do, you know, with synergy grid is making the building, you know, High performance so that we don't have to have massive solar systems.

We don't have to have a whole lot of energy production to continue to have this building produce, you know, all the power that it needs because. Again, I've been able to benefit from being able to go down there.  These are bills in expenses that my, you know, grandparents and my aunts, and, you know, at some point I will be paying, but I don't want to pass it on to the next generation.

I want them to be able to enjoy it, you know, carefree, just like I have. And if we build something sustainably, then we can actually have that be a thing. We can have that be tangible. And then to your point about the agrivoltaics.  My mom, one of the, I was still real young and I remember we were going by my, uh, on Idena's house and she picked a cherry tomato off a vine, just a random, you know, tomato.

And she's like shoving it in my face, like, eat this, eat this, eat this, I was like eww, eww, it's so dirty, it's dirty, I don't want to eat this. Didn't have pesticides on it, didn't have anything on it, bright red, little tomato. And I tasted that thing and it was a, an explosion of flavors. It was a delicious plethora of joyous delight dancing all on my palate.

And I was like, I had never before experienced such perfection. And I was like,  What is, what is this?  What is this deliciously mother that you've given me?  It's just like, this is what tomatoes taste like. And I almost wept.  I almost shed a tear because  I hated tomatoes with a burning passion of a thousand suns.

And I was like, I would never, because the tomatoes that we eat here, they're filled with a bunch of water. You know, they don't have any flavor. And that is my impression of a lot of what, you know, it is to be able to be close to, you know, not only heritage, but to the earth, to the planet. Because we can eat that stuff that comes out of the ground.

That's what we had been doing for a long time. We've gotten very far away from that. And I think that this, a lot of what we're doing is reflecting the return to, you know, the original nature of, of how we should exist. And I want it to be a sustainable version of that. And so, you know, being able to, to, you know, kind of come full circle. 

I have been able to appreciate that and it have benefited from that. And that's just something that I want to be able to show other people and to be able to give people an opportunity and a chance to experience that too.  I love it. Oh, Jordan, I am so grateful to you and that you're doing what you're doing, that you are inspiring people and thinking about the next generation.

Any other final things to touch on or where do you want people to find you? So you can find me on the socials, you know, I'm super active on LinkedIn. That'll probably be in the show notes. Hopefully, I'll send that over to you and website as well.  But One of the things I just want to encourage everybody is.

Get active, concern yourself with the goings on in the world.  If not you, then who? It's going to rely on us and the next generation does.  We are the only ones that have the power  and we only got one planet. We're the ones that are going to save us. No one's coming.  Exactly. We're the cavalry.  Thank you so much for listening.

Links to amazing resources can be found in the episode's show notes. Special thanks to Sarah Gilbert for allowing me to use snippets of her song Fireflies from her debut album, Other People's Secrets, which by the way is available wherever music is sold.  If you haven't already, be sure to subscribe to the show. 

And now that Tangible Remnants is part of the Gable Media Network, you can listen and subscribe to all network partner content at gablemedia. com. That's G A B L media dot com.  Until next time, remember that historic preservation is a present conversation with our past about our future. We don't inherit the earth from our parents, but we borrow it from our children.

So let's make sure we're telling our inclusive history.  I saw the first Firely sun and right then  I thought of you.  Oh, I could see us catching them and setting them free.  Honey, that's what you do. 

That's what you do to me.  Calling 

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Another challenge of the, of the shuttle is actually putting it in launch position is how you brace that seismically. It's really supported by only two pins at the base of the booster rockets. And there's a large base isolator that's underneath the shuttle that kind of. Prevents it from moving too much in an earthquake. 

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