Unmasking Learning Differences w/ Morgan C.B. Miles

Morgan C.B. Miles 0:00

I think that this next generation is truly going to disrupt the world. And I think that it's needed because there's so much that's changing and constantly changing. And you can't do things the way you used to. It's the people that think outside of the box, the people that just do things differently, that are going to be really shake up the world and have it evolve.

 

Nakita Reed 0:25

Welcome to Tangible Remnants. And Nakita Reed. And this is my show, where I explore the interconnectedness of architecture, preservation, sustainability, race, and gender. I'm excited that you're here. So let's get into it.

 

Welcome back. I am freshly back and reinvigorated from my time on the West Coast. For the ZNCC happy hour and the NOMA conferences. It was such good energy and I met so many amazing people. Thank you to everyone who came up to me and thanked me or congratulated me for the presentation that I gave with Milan Jordan. It really was just inspiring to be there.

 

I'm also super excited to share with the audience that next year's NOMA conference will be in Baltimore, Maryland. So it's going to be an amazing time and I can't wait.

 

In celebration of the 10th anniversary of Invisible Disabilities Awareness Week, this week features a special episode with my friend Morgan C.B. Miles. Morgan and I were two of the three black students to graduate from architecture in a class of about 60 from the University of Virginia. You may remember her from one of the earlier episodes of the podcast, Episode Six, Taking Up Space, which featured a conversation between me, Morgan, and Rasheda Tripp, who was the other black student who graduated with us. I'll put a link in the show notes to that episode if you want to find it. And it was a good time that really talked through more of our three very different experiences, through school and into the profession.

 

In this episode, however, Morgan and I talk about neurodiversity, and she shares her vantage point on this topic. Morgan and I have been friends for decades. So I was honored that she wanted to use this podcast as a platform to talk about a part of her identity she doesn't often share with people who aren't close to her. She was incredibly nervous in that episode, and I am super proud of her for being as vulnerable as she was. Morgan talks about how exhausting it is to worry about other people's expectations and perceptions. And I think many of us who have ever been othered can relate to being or feeling different, and trying to contort ourselves into a box that we were not designed for.

 

So if you've been needing a nudge, I hope that Morgan's ability to show up and share authentically about herself will give you what you need to do the same and honor of Invisible Disabilities Awareness Week. This will also be the first episode of the podcast that will include a transcript of the conversation. That way the show can be more accessible to a wider community.

 

The building spotlight this week is the Canopy by Hilton and Hyatt House at The Wharf in Washington DC. It's one building but two great hotels, and Morgan was involved in bringing both of them into fruition. Head over to the podcast Instagram page to see images. And if you're in the DC area, be sure to go check it out.

 

Before we get into the episode, I wanted to remind you that I have my next Ask Me Anything session coming up this Sunday, October 22nd from 8pm to 9pm. Eastern Standard Time, check the link in the show notes or just go to NakitaReed.com/ama for more information and to find out when the next ones will be. I hope you're having a great month.

 

And without further ado, please enjoy this conversation between me and Morgan C.B. Miles. So today, I am thrilled to be joined by my longtime friend Morgan Chanel-Burrell Miles. Morgan is a math whiz. And she was one of those students who took advanced calculus for fun, where I was struggling through the basics, but it's fine. She went on to become a successful real estate developer and worked on projects like the Hilton Canopy at The Wharf and also projects in Tampa and around the world around the country. Rather, she's also worked with famous architects like Rafael Viñoly. We both currently serve on the UVA School of Architecture Dean's Advisory Board. And so I'm just so excited to have you on the show. Thank you for joining.

 

Morgan C.B. Miles 4:26

Thank you very much.

 

Nakita Reed 4:27

So we're gonna jump right into the conversation. So I guess, do you have any preference on where we would like where you would like to start?

 

Morgan C.B. Miles 4:36

I'll just give a little background about myself. I'm just gonna say right now that I'm a little nervous, even though it's just the two of us. This month I'll be 39 and this is something that I have never publicly talked about. So I think that it's very, very important for me to say that I'm a very authentic and very vulnerable person. But this is an area for me where I am very just nervous because it has different connotations and different people just feel certain way about it.

 

So I have, I'll just say a learning disability, I like to call it a learning difference, something that I have struggled with and still continue to struggle with on a day-to-day basis for 39 years. I struggle with reading comprehension, word retrieval and audio comprehension. But I've worked extremely hard to mask that and something that no one really sees throughout my life, but it's something that it's such a big part of who I am, that I need to at this point, to really just unmask who I am and be my authentic self. Truly.

 

Nakita Reed 5:51

Yeah, absolutely. So I remember as long as I've known you, I've known about this learning difference. So as we've gotten older, you've been diving more into it and sharing more. And so I know that you identify someone who is neurodiverse. So is that something you can get a little bit more context on?

 

Morgan C.B. Miles 6:06

Sure. And it's something that people are talking about more and more now. But still, there are a lot of people that don't know about it, I think this next generation is going to kind of change everything in terms of the future, especially with AI and digital transformation and, and everything for the future. But being neuro diverse, it's just you think differently. I don't think like the, quote-on-quote, typical person, but my memory, I'll give a little bit more background.

 

So I all my reading, I have memorized all the words that I so it's not any like, so that's what with my memory where I remember dates, like, I remember everything under the sun with like everyone's birthday and all of that. It's because I have an incredible, incredible, incredible memory, incredible memory, mainly for numbers, and not as much for letters. And so like, just like with phonics and everything in this way, like learning a new language is more challenging. For me. It's like the Oh cake. I have more trouble with. And so I've memorized all the words. But if I were to read to you right now, you wouldn't know a difference.

 

But so I think differently, I've known that I've always been a unique person. And I've kind of hid certain parts of me that are unique. But I have really, really tried to be quote-on-quote, normal. And it's been exhausting. It's really truly, truly exhausting. And with the pandemic, and everything that's going on, I think everybody is tired, but I just it's, it's not, it's, it's too much. So with me, I think that what goes on with me is different from any other person. So I don't want to say that. What makes me who I am, is defines all people that are neurodiverse, I think it's important to understand that there's people with autism, there are people that have dyslexia, they're people that just have mine language based learning difference. So it's not even, like categorized as like something that most people would would understand, be able to Google. So it's important that within this neurodiversity, that diversity is just, it's very broad.

 

Nakita Reed 8:20

Right. And so then what is some of the fear that you've had about talking about this portion of it? Because I know it's one that you haven't talked about publicly really before?

 

Morgan C.B. Miles 8:27

Or I'm very, like, very, very, very quiet about it. Because a lot of people you automatically think learning, I'll just say disability, even though I think that whole word should be changed. You think learning disability and you think a person is, is not smart? You think a person doesn't know? Just had such a negative connotation of intelligence. And it's just recently that I'm realizing how, how smart I really am. And I know that that sounds crazy.

 

I got a 740 on my math SATs, and I've, I've kicked butt throughout like, well, childhood it took that was a lot but I've kicked but I went to Wharton (Speaker 2: went to Wharton, went to UVA, highly educated, highly motivated) but I think I've had to get to this point to realize that I can be successful, I am successful. And I am smart. Because I think that as a child, a lot of what people define you as are the things that you can't do and the things that are wrong with you and the things that you struggle with. But if anything, I wish that school systems focus more on the things that I am, like, unique and incredible in the ways that I am. And it's and it's different. But it doesn't mean that it's better or worse. It's just It's just different. And so I think that it's it's really important.

 

Nakita Reed 9:49

Yeah. And I love that you're starting to understand and feel how smart you are. Because I've always known this. I mean, I remember at UVA when you were taking advanced calculus as an elective. I was like but why we don't have to take it. But you had so much fun with it. And I remember going to you to get help with calculus. Because I was like, Morgan, I don't understand these numbers, and this is your jam. And so I think it's also interesting how people define smart or intelligence and how they treat others. And very much even kind of like whatever that parable is where it's like, if you judge, but it's like judge,

 

Morgan C.B. Miles: 10:21

Oh, fish for climbing the tree. Yes, that's one of my favorite quotes. I strongly believe that because it's, I think that because my challenge is that with reading, it's something that I had one of my first test in 1991, which I was in first grade. Because you go in the kindergarten, you go in, and you're reading immediately, and I was having so much trouble with it.

 

But it made me appreciate the, the underdog, so much more. It's when it came reading time I was like, Oh my God. But then when I was math, I knew I knew what I was doing. And I was I knew how it felt for other people. And I think that a lot helped with me being so empathetic, because it's you really from an early early age, I was the underdog in certain areas, and why would I ever make someone feel the way I felt?

 

And so from a very early age, there are people that learn about their learning differences, whether it's autism, or what have you, ADHD later on in life, and they've done an incredible job of masking and had to do a lot of different things to seem quote-on-quote, normal. But I've known since day one. And it's it's been something that's a very big part of me, I should I really want to say.

 

So I call myself a trifecta of difference. And I don't exactly explain what the three differences are. But I realized at when I was younger, I was more of like the girl versus the boy, I realized I was a girl first. But then I realized about my learning differences versus other people's learning differences. And then I realized I was black versus white. So a part of me and a part of who I am, like, my learning differences is even more of who I am than being black. (Speaker 2: Oh, that's fascinating, yeah), really, really interesting.

 

Nakita Reed: 12:20

I have this similar thing where it's like, people have asked me know, do I consider myself more black or more female? Like it's equal. Not one or the other. So to hear that? This is a learning difference is also in there. Yeah. (Speaker 1: More of me than I think being black). Interesting. And so then I love though, how you frame it as a learning difference and not a learning disability? How have you adapted to being a professional? And how have you been able to, I guess, work through it, and even some of the masking that you've been doing?

 

Morgan C.B. Miles: 12:47

And no one's life is easy. So I'm not going to make any kind of comparisons and a lot of times I compare myself against myself. What sometimes I think that's a good thing. Sometimes I think I'm like, Nah, I can't do the things that I used to do when I was younger. But that's okay. It's a different season. And I'm incredible the way I am. I say this, because I have never really truly felt like how all my superpowers and how incredible I am. And so be saying that, and they know it because of my background and everything everybody just automatically thinks that but I'll just be even more frank and more honest.

 

So I was waitlisted at Newark Academy, my high school, which was incredible school and still is I was waitlisted at UVA. And I don't know if you know that. And then I was waitlisted at Wharton. So it was like, You know what, maybe in my future, I might write a book on how to get off the waitlist. We'll see about that. But that's for another day. That's not for today. But I've always nothing has come easy to me. So how everyone might just think and look at my background and experiences and just think like, oh, yes, she worked hard. No, I've had to work even harder. And it's made me appreciate. Because I haven't gotten things easy, that it's not when I finally have gotten it, it has made me appreciate it so much more. Because it's just no one necessarily had the expectations that I would be able to do what I did. And and I have.

 

Nakita Reed: 14:15

As you got into more of the working environment. How did how did working or how did you do with your learning difference?

 

Morgan C.B. Miles: 14:20

Working I think has been a little it's been more difficult in the sense that in school you have the environment you have like the Learning Center. I'm now on the University of Pennsylvania Weingarten Center, I'm on the board, the advisory board along with UVA School of Architecture, Vice Chair, but you have things in school, but then when you get into the work environment, it's like the most closeted experience.

 

You're not supposed to say anything about your differences, at least from my experiences and this whole thing is about my experiences. So I don't want to say that this is just like everybody else. So I haven't been able to express who like who I am fully. And so it's I've had to work in ways that you couldn't even imagine to hide who I am and how I think and the way in which I process information and the way in which I learned. And it's, it's been challenging and part of why I want to share my story, there's no one right way to think there's no one right way to learn. There's no one right way to talk to communicate to all of that. And it's when people think that there is that it's, it's a struggle, because it's, I do things differently, but it's more of the the input and how I process information more than the output. Because I like the output, I will like, figure out what does the person want what is what, what is best for this individual who am I communicating with all of that and adapt, but it's more of just how I process. So if we're going into certain meetings, and people are very big on a groupthink, and let's just communicate together and talk about everything right on the spot, those meetings like that I really struggle with because that's not how I'm going to come up with my best ideas, and show who I am.

 

I've had situations where I've tried to be like well, I think differently, I just do things differently. But it's not me being difficult. It's just me just process, my brain is wired differently. And it's when it's like, I look like I'm not a team player or situations like that where. It's really unfortunate. Because if you bring different people, you're able to you learn the most from people that are different from you, and you learn the most from the people that that have had experiences that you haven't had. And, and so it's in a work environment, it has been challenging, because I've had to probably do more than double just to make sure that I quote-on-quote, fit in. But the environments that have allowed me to kind of do me on the front end, I've been extremely successful.

 

So um, you'd mentioned Canopy by Hilton. So it was the first in all of North America was the second total. And then it was also I was working on the Hyatt House. And that was a part of the 1.9 million square feet that were delivered in the first phase of The Wharf in Washington, DC, the southwest. We started a year and a half behind everybody else, but we finished with the rest of The Wharf. And so I feel like environments and experiences like that they allow me to be who I am and thrive. And not this is the way you should do certain things. So I think it's important to at least share that because I hope that employers and whoever look at this and see that you can't expect everybody to do things exactly the way they've been done in the past. We won't be successful for the future.

 

Nakita Reed: 18:00

Right. And that's a good point, though, is also for employers, team leaders, project managers to keep in mind that not everyone is an extrovert. Not everyone is an introvert not everyone is able to think on the spot. Some people need to see things written orally. So being mindful of different people's learning styles. I think that's a really great reminder. And so I love that you also circle back to the work that you did on The Wharf. Because I think for a lot of people from the outside looking in, they likely perceive you as someone who just has it all figured out all together, all that good stuff, because you've managed over let's see, $1 billion dollars $1 billion dollars of financing, which is amazing to me, (Speaker 1: and development.) Yeah, like that blows my mind. And so I guess I love that you're mentioning the importance of including neurodiversity within the conversation of diversity, equity and inclusion at the workplace. So then, are there any additional tips that you have for our for employers, or even people to ask for what they need?

 

Morgan C.B. Miles: 18:55

I'm so working on the whole, trying to be transparent. Hence today. And actually, October represents disability awareness and celebration month, I might have quoted that a little incorrectly. And the week of my birthday, my birthday is October 18. When I remember everyone's birthday,

 

Nakita Reed: 19:15

She really does. We're gonna pause on that for a second. She still calls me at midnight on my birthday, which is I love it, but I'm also in half the time sleeping. But that's fine.

 

Morgan C.B. Miles: 19:23

And you are not the only like literally, like between September and October. I know every bit of probably 80 people's birthdays. In my mind. No, like no help from anyone. No, like, I know, Facebook and LinkedIn and all of that they have the reminders. Nope. This is all in my head. Even my manager when I worked at The Wharf, I know her her birthday, her Twins' birthday, her older son's birthday, her husband's birthday and her mother-in-law's birthday.

 

Nakita Reed: 19:54

That's wild to me, and impressive. (Speaker 1: That was several years ago) that's like in one ear at the other I'm like, calendars and reminders. I need all of that. So yeah, I'm super impressed.

 

Morgan C.B. Miles: 20:05

I think that this next generation is truly going to disrupt the world. And I think that it's needed because there's so much that's changing and constantly changing. And you can't do things the way you used to. It's the people that think outside of the box that people that just do things differently, that aren't going to be really shake up the world and have it evolve.

 

I think my my biggest advice is to really be in environments where you feel the most authentic. Authenticity, at least for me, is one of my guiding principles. Now, I'll say respect is not too far behind that because people can be authentic. And sometimes their authentic self is not necessarily always the most respectful. So I would like to just say that it's important to continue to be respectful in your authentic self, and to understand the environment and understand the audience understand who you're around. But as much as you can be who you are, and unmask and truly just feel good in your own skin, the better it is.

 

So whether it's like the company culture being out on your own, the people that you are the teams that you're working with, you're the capacity on the other people that work that are your co workers, the future leaders, do you see yourself? Not necessarily as your boss, your boss's boss's future, do you? Do you really? Are you in line with the people that are with that you interact with? I think that's even from a friend standpoint, that's from a family standpoint, I think that it's important to really be who you are, and to accept it and to love yourself as much as you can. And I'm still every day working on that, because it's not easy.

 

Nakita Reed: 21:51

Yes. Aren't we all? Because I think that's also been something that as I've gotten older, that's something that I am embracing more. And like dropping more of the expectations. Oh, well, people expect this of me or that when it's like, no. I need to love who I am. Be who I am. Authentically, because that's why I'm here. I wasn't here to be someone else's expectations, to fulfill who I am.

 

And so I love also that you are embracing technology. And you are one of the few people that I know who've actively been using ChatGPT and AI and other types of technology. And so let's pivot a little bit and talk a little bit about how how that has helped your workflow and how you're incorporating that?

 

Morgan C.B. Miles: 22:30

Well, I think while while in school, you have like all of the well at least for me, I had a lot of the accommodations and the resources to help me be successful. At UVA, I'll use an example for our like physics class, our large physics class that we took how things work, but I had a note taker and I had a note taker in all of like, the large classes, and they would go in so it'd be person that was in the class. And at the beginning, the teacher would make an announcement. There's a person that's in I don't remember what they said, but like we would we request volunteers for note takers.

 

And so it's like, it's more of a because I could take my own notes. But it's, it's the way in which I comprehend the way in which I'm like thinking of the word, what was the word that they just said, as opposed to like being present and being aware. So note takers just were more supplement for me.

 

But obviously, when you're in a work environment, if you're if you don't have somebody that's taking notes for you, where you're recording or some stuff like that, it's become like, challenging, if I'm leading a meeting, try to take the notes, trying to figure out the technology, and it's just like, whoa, whoa, and then use my brain the way everybody else wants me to use my brain. It's a lot.

 

So I have been embracing technology, probably more than our old millennial people, and trying to figure out like, what works for me, there are a lot of great apps that I've been using, like Speechify, which read certain things to me, Otter AI, I don't use it as much as I'd like. But it does a full transcript of meetings that I joined and there's privacy issues, and there's certain things like where I tell people and everything like that, but it gives me an opportunity to really be present in the conversation while they're taking the notes.

 

So I'm not thinking, oh, I want to write down what they were saying. And like, I'm thinking about that and someone is saying something else. And then I'm like, all over the place. And I mean, I'm animated. I've always been animated. So, but I say this to say embracing technology. But I think that I can't speak for the younger generation. But I think that it's important to embrace technology.

 

There are some issues with like, the privacy issues and the legal aspect and understanding that and there's like certain things understanding the default aspects of things because I remember my very first time I signed up for the Otter, and it joined my conversation, like a third party and of all people thank goodness, it was the Weingarten Executive Director that I that I had the first meeting with, thank goodness, because it could have been in so many other meetings as they join us. Morgan's AI like Otter AI, I was like, Oh, my God. And I didn't even know like what this and I wasn't trying to do anything I just had signed up the night before for it. So it's very important to understand the parameters and the things that go on with, with the different technologies.

 

But I think that it's important to embrace it with like ChatGPT, there's so many ways that you can use it, I think it's garbage in garbage out. So it's important to really understand parameters, and what's what you're really asking for. But there are ways in which to just like, Oh, can you help me with like, looking up these different dietary what like options for something like, there are ways that you could use it. But it's important to know the the basics beforehand, so you're not asking them to do a to draw something for you, and that you don't necessarily know how to draw yourself.

 

Nakita Reed: 26:10

Right, that makes sense. And so then, are there any aside from Otter, ChatGPT, are there any other tools that you're exploring now?

 

Morgan C.B. Miles: 26:17

So those are the ones I really like I've been doing, I have a whole list of different things I use, like the, it's like, I think it's TinyWOW, it like combines that PDFs together, like, so instead of like Adobe, it's a free version. There's so there's, I have a whole list. And I have a list for everything, because I make lists for everything. But the apps and the technologies that I use on a regular basis are the Otter and Speechify.

 

Nakita Reed: 26:48

Okay, awesome. And so then I'm so grateful to you that you were willing to talk about this and share more of your story openly. How are you hoping that your story will impact others?

 

Morgan C.B. Miles: 26:59

So when we're talking about dates, before that I want to just bring up so the week of my birthday is Invisible Disability Week, and because part of what I have is a non-apparent disability. And a lot of times within people that are I'll say, disabled, I hate I hate disability, I really truly hate that word. But there's certain people like people know a lot about autism. But people know a lot about certain things. But there's not diversity within diversity, which is kind of interesting to me. But I think that because a lot of people are scared to talk about it and scared to be vulnerable. And unmask it mean took me 39 years, I think me talking about it, hopefully will make people feel like they're not necessarily alone.

 

I've been like a mentor in most of my spaces in real estate, and being black female and all that. But I don't really have like a mentor at all. But don't say all but just in this space, because the generations before you really couldn't say anything. So it's just important to be able to talk out and know that there are people that are are different and different isn't bad, different is freaking amazing. And so I just wanted to tell my story. I hope it touches the right people. And so I hope that people are able to feel more comfortable in their own skin and be authentic. And realize that it's okay, it's okay. And amazing to be who you are.

 

Nakita Reed: 28:43

Yeah. I love that you are helping to destigmatize this Yes, I think that's that is the concern of that's kind of what I'm also hearing the fear as you're talking about it like the needing to hide from it because of perceptions of what everyone else is going to think. But being able to help destigmatize it is your this is going to help so many people. And I'm so grateful that you're doing this. And so then as we are wrapping up, do you have any particular advice that you would want to give to individuals who are facing similar neurodivergent concerns or similar fears, anything like that?

 

Morgan C.B. Miles: 29:14

Reach out to me! A lot of times, I love helping other people more than helping myself. And I love talking to new people I love like interacting with different people. And if there's any way that I could help, if there's anyone that I can introduce you to where you would just be your sounding board. I think it's more important just to be be there for people.

 

Nakita Reed: 29:38

Great. And so I'm realizing also as you're saying that cuz I know you do a lot of mentoring already. You may have to set up like a coaching session or something. But then are there any other like online resources? Like for instance, I know you talked about like, Adam Grant and a couple other people as well.

 

Morgan C.B. Miles: 29:49

I have a whole laundry list so I could, instead of talking about it now I could show notes. Yes, yeah. But there are a lot of great resources.

 

Nakita Reed: 29:59

Fantastic. All right. Well, thank you so much for joining Morgan, (Speaker 1: thank you.)

 

All right. And thank you all for joining in. And I hope you found amazing nuggets in this one. Be sure to check the show notes for additional information and resources. And I will see you next time.

 

Thank you so much for listening. Links to amazing resources can be found in the episode's show notes. Special thanks to Sarah Gilberg for allowing me to use snippets of her song fireflies from her debut album, other people's secrets, which by the way is available wherever music is sold. If you haven't already, be sure to subscribe to the show. And now that Tangible Remnants is part of the Gābl Media network, you can listen and subscribe to all network partner content at gablmedia.com. That's gabl media.com. Until next time, remember that historic preservation is a present conversation with our past about our future. We don't inherit the earth from our parents, but we borrow it from our children. So let's make sure we're telling our inclusive history.

 

Transcribed by https://otter.ai