727: A Culture on Fire - Libertinism vs. Libertarianism

Brian Nichols  0:13  
Politics is downstream from culture, which means libertarians, we have an obligation to get involved in the cultural conversation. Let's talk about that. Instead of focusing on winning arguments, we're teaching the basic fundamentals of sales and marketing and how we can use them to win in the world of politics, teaching you how to meet people where they're at on the issues they care about. Welcome to The Brian Nichols Show. Wow, hey there, folks, Brian Nichols here on The Brian Nichols Show. Thank you for joining us on of course, another fun filled episode. I am as always your humble host. Joining us live from our BNC Studios here in lovely Eastern Indiana. And today we are talking about the cultural conversation or for many folks in the libertarian movement, the lack thereof of having our libertarian or Liberty based concepts and ideas brought to the cultural conversation. Joining us to talk about that and more from the Hapa terian show, Shane, welcome back to The Brian Nichols Show.

Shane (The Hapatarian)  1:10  
Hey, Brian, thanks for having me. Really appreciate it.

Brian Nichols  1:12  
Absolutely. My friend. Great to have you back. And I know it's been a while since we had you here on the show. So do us a favor, reintroduce yourself here to The Brian Nichols Show audience if you would?

Shane (The Hapatarian)  1:23  
Can't believe you know who I am Brian, and come on. Are you serious? No, I'm kidding. Now, so yeah, I'm the co host of the Octarians show used to be called what's happening. Last summer, I was called what's happening? And I host a show with my lovely beautiful wife, Nico. So, yeah, that's pretty much me. And, you know, go on social media and see just how ridiculous it is. And like you're saying, you know, the the culture is just it's such a huge and important issue that like, like you were saying, libertarians are Liberty minded people. See how it's going. And it's good that some of them are fighting back. But as some would say, maybe it's a little too late.

Brian Nichols  2:09  
Yep. Yeah. Well, and that's what we're talking about today is like, how do we address the lack of our ability to influence or impact this cultural conversation? And how much of that is due to us being libertine versus libertarian, right? And I think there's a very large distinction between those two schools of thought libertarianism is not libertine. libertine is pretty much a free for all you do as you want and you live your life as you see fit. Consequences be damned. Whereas libertarianism we have principles, we have values that we try to maintain granted, we do so outside of the realm of government influence. So I think we see far off and maybe far too often, that libertarians start to drift in our messaging about values and ideas into the libertine camp for fear of offense. I don't get it. Help me understand, Shane, where are we dropping the ball here?

Shane (The Hapatarian)  3:04  
Well, I think I guess some would say that the philosophy itself doesn't have an answer for how culture is such a big thing. I mean, we see it in in social media, and even in our day to day lives, how things just changed so fast that maybe they're too slow to react or the way the how they say, live and let live. Right. That's a huge part of libertarianism, and then you see how it's going to go? Do we really? Do we really want to kind of go that route of just letting people live however they want, like, I understand to how, if somebody wants to put a drug in their body or put alcohol, that's totally fine. But then there's some aspects and some things where, you know, and I don't want to get too graphic here, but you know, there's stuff with children where you're just like, I don't I don't want to be a part of this. I don't want anything to do with this. I want it to stop. And there's libertarians, I'm sure you see it too on social media where they're just like, Yeah, I don't see a problem with it. Like how do you

see a problem with this? I don't understand.

Brian Nichols  4:11  
I don't get it man. And especially when it deals with kids, right. And this is where I've gotten so frustrated with folks in the libertarian camp who eco not libertarian ism but libertine ism Liberty libertarianism. I don't know how to guess what the isn't for being a libertine. But the fact that we see so many folks conflate libertarianism with this idea of being a libertine, it does it makes my skin crawl, it makes my blood boil, because there are standards, right? There are values that we we should be promoting. And, frankly, there are ideas and values that we should be condemning. And this is the part that I think I've really gotten some folks in the libertarian movement, a little frustrated about this because I've been trying to enter into the conversation saying, No, we don't have to embrace and accept everyone's ID is everyone's perspectives because some of the people's perspectives are bad or wrong and are destructive. And we have an obligation to stand up and say no. Now, that doesn't mean all the time, we have to lean towards government to be the answer to that problem. But it starts with us at least vocally saying, We will not tolerate this, or at the very least, we will speak out against it. But there's this fear, man, and I think you hit the nail on the head, right? We embrace this live and let live mentality. But that goes towards the extremes. And many examples, slippery meat slope, and I think you hit also the nail on the head and saying, maybe we're a little too slow and reacting to this stuff. Which is why when I was on Tim Poole, I said, we need to be setting narratives, not responding to narratives, we had to stop, like just playing catch up, it's like, you know, we're in the fourth quarter of the big game. And we're down 40 points, like good luck getting enough points on the board to even stand a chance, because the other team is already pouring the proverbial Gatorade bath on their head coach. So let's kind of focus on how do we start to maintain maintain principles values, in the cultural conversation without using government to be that that strong arm? What would you say are some ideas that we could take forward in the libertarian camp actually have an impact?

Shane (The Hapatarian)  6:16  
Well, I may have to disagree a little bit on

Brian Nichols  6:23  
how go for it. No,

Shane (The Hapatarian)  6:24  
please. Like how? Because Okay, so obviously, having the like, the state, obviously, is one of the things that libertarians they don't like, okay. But sometimes, especially specialist stuff like this, where if you're, if you're involved in local politics, I mean, even local politics can be dirty. I've heard a couple stories where it was just noticed involved in their local community, and even they're getting slammed. And all the slime that's going on in local politics is just crazy. However, when you have that tool there, to do something, because if you're just doing that live and let live type of mentality, then how do you stop that if you're not going to use politics? Do you understand what I'm saying? Where if you're, it's almost as if you're, like, Libertarians kind of, in a way put themselves in a corner. Because I mean, we're seeing it now. And you see it when people are expected in a corner, and they go, Well, I don't know what to do. So I'm going to start trying to win, be a part of the city council or be in a school board, because they see a lot of stuff that's going on in an education system where you're just like, again, with the children. I don't like all the stuff that we're that my kids are being taught in schools if they are in public schools. So in some ways, they they feel forced, they have to use the state power. And I do think I do think having some kind of state power where you can't you have to you not just utilize if you have to gain at first because libertarians don't have a whole lot of power. I mean, very small amount. So what are they going to do other than just hey, libertarianism. I mean, come on. I'm telling you, I'm the smartest guy in the room said myself. So everyone else around these heroes, libertarians, I'm gonna go and I mean, it sounds nice. But how? I don't really know. So I think people have to kind of get maybe realistic. I don't know if that's the right term for this. But they have to understand they're living in the real world, you can't just assume that everybody is going to understand, and just, oh, if I read one Rothbard book, yeah, you're right, I am now in our case, all is great a state the states there, the state exists, I'm sorry to say, but you're gonna have to do something with that, to where you're gonna have to use politics to try and change the culture, because that's how it's being done. Anyway, that's how it's been done since the beginning of time, where they have power, people try and utilize that power to maintain what they want to see in their society. And I think that's what's going to happen. That's what's going to have to have to happen here. So I mean, what do you would have to say about that?

Brian Nichols  9:12  
You know, a couple of things I was jotting down here as you're going through. So first, right there. The last thing actually, you tease that using politics, to change the culture, right? We see politics being downstream from culture, but to your point where we are today, politics, while it has traditionally been downstream from culture and influenced by the culture, in turn, politics has helped dictate new culture. And it goes to where I think you're talking about using government to at least fight back a little bit and it's specifically in areas that we're already spending our tax dollars towards now, this is not a conversation about you know, is that moral taxation is theft, right? And none of that stuff more so living in the real world like you said, right now our tax dollars are being used by public libraries to host drag queen story our our tax X dollars are being used by the government schools in the public sector to indoctrinate children to believe XYZ against the wishes of their kids. And that XYZ can be as nefarious and dark as your mind could possibly wander. Because yes, that is, in fact, what's happening behind closed doors in these government schools, where public school teachers now not all of them, but a few are using the bully pulpit of being the educator and using that to manipulate in many cases indoctrinate children. Right. And it goes to, I think the other thing that we were talking about earlier with the idea of using politics to dictate culture, leftist have done a phenomenal job at doing that, and what have they done, right, they have been able to dominate the conversation. And then brilliantly enough, use our rationale, use our libertarian arguments of the live and let live and let live live free. Like they use that mentality against us in trying to enforce these ideas on kids. Oh, drag queen story our What do you have a problem with that if a couple of nice drag queens are telling storybooks to four year old kids? I have a lot of problems with that, because it's just not it's not conducive to a healthy society. And yet they use our arguments against us. And I think it goes exactly to the point that if we were to put a nice bubble on that, or a nice bow on that, that topic, there it is, we have to live in the real world, right? We have to get out of our theory out of our ivory tower of you know, think tank mentalities and actually get ourselves boots on the ground, in the real world, yet, we haven't, right? We go through and we say, here's a book, read this, fucking book it somebody and think that that's going to change their mind, or it's going to change the overall culture, it doesn't good ideas alone do not dictate the culture, we have an obligation to enter into those conversations, and present, not just different ways of thinking, but actually, like, stand against the bad ideas, yet, we get so terrified, because we're afraid we're going to be condemned, we're afraid that, you know, our 5% electoral success is going to get whittled down to three, right? Like, come on, if we're just going to try to go into these conversations, to placate everybody, we're gonna continue to lose. And frankly, we deserve to lose.

Shane (The Hapatarian)  12:21  
Yeah, and I think, also what I was saying about being involved with local politics, or at the very least, just kind of following up on what's going on and around and around where I live, you know. And then

also, when you were talking about the taxation is theft and living in the real world, having those people and I'm guilty of this, or that taxation stuff, but over tax days, oh, yeah, I'm gonna do my taxes, because I don't want to get in trouble. Like, a lot of people who

were assigned to that ideology, oh, they're gonna pay their taxes, no matter what I mean, that's, that's, you know, that they do that anyway. Yeah, it's bad, you don't want to do it, but you can't just not pay your taxes, and nothing's gonna happen to you know, as crazy that is. But, so like, kind of going back to like the local politics, and like, being involved, or just having some kind of understanding of what's going on, it really helps to have that strong community around you. And trying to get those good relationships with the local sheriff, or the mayor or something like that. Because I mean, we saw it during all the COVID stuff, there were a lot of shares were like, I'm not going to, I'm not going to enforce these. These lock downs or anything like that, because No, I just, I just don't like that. And when you have someone like that, where the sheriff is this all powerful person in your town, that's great. And that's an example where the federal government doesn't just have all this massive power. I mean, they do. But then when you see, like, I was saying these shares, saying, No, we're not going to, we're going to stand down, we're not going to enforce that. That's great. And I think that's something that people have to understand as well with, with all of this and, and not just politics being downstream and culture, but culture itself. I mean, sometimes you don't even need politics to change the culture. I mean, we see the thought leaders saying with the drag queen stuff that that that just happens, it wasn't like the politics ROI. Okay, so yeah, we're gonna have drag queens go out into libraries and schools, and now they just happened. It wasn't just it happened, because maybe politics that has something to do with it, like it kind of trickled down or whatever. But that was it was leading up to that all the culture stuff before that. It was leading up to the drag queens and then all the, like trans surgeries and just how ridiculous I mean, I've seen some of the graphic images. I'm just like, it's mind blowing.

Brian Nichols  14:43  
And frankly, a lot of people they put themselves in a bubble to pretend that what we're talking about, it's not a big deal, right? It's it's not a big deal. Why are you getting so upset about this? Brian and Shane, you guys have nothing to worry about. No, I'm sorry. We've seen what happens. When we sit on the sidelines and we watch the culture go into decay, right? We've seen that happen over the past 20 years, it's x escalated times 10 over the past five years, even from when Trump was in the office to today, right from 2016. To today, we've seen it constantly go quicker and quicker down this slippery slope. And now we're at the point where I think a lot of people are looking, you know, they're scrambling now, like, Oh, what do we do? And it starts with us just saying no, when we see the nonsense taking place to actually have the testicular fortitude to stand up and say, No, this, this is not right now, you're mentioning using the government, in many instances, in this case, to help be the means to help rectify this stuff. And from the local perspective, amen. Right, that that right there is where we win. And that's why frankly, I wrote my ebook back at the beginning of the year, how to win your local election, because winning your local elections, and having an impact on the society that you are a part of the community that you're a part of, is so important, if we want to actually have like a strong footing when it comes to the cultural conversation. I lived in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania for seven years. And I watched me number one, the city itself was never a bastion for you know, conservative or, or culturally normal ideas. It was always kind of going towards this, you know, leftist approach to the culture, but it went towards, like the extreme over the past few years. And getting out of a city like that, and going to a community where I feel, not only do I have more of a say, but frankly, I'm able to build those relationships with people within my community, who share my values, who share my goals, and frankly, share my vision for the future. That has been so much better for me, especially as a new dad, right? You're a dad, I'm a new dad, like, this is something that when you have kids, it means so much more to us versus just having a conversation when you're some young 20, something who has no real, you know, obligations or responsibilities, you can go out and kind of do your own thing. And you don't really think about the implications until all of a sudden, you're being faced the reality that what we're doing today impacts the future your children will experience tomorrow. So talk to us about your perspectives being a dad and how that's shaped your ideas. And frankly, your approach to dealing with some of these cultural conversations.

Shane (The Hapatarian)  17:25  
Well, even before I became a dad, with was all of the COVID locked down stuff and how just just how easy, everybody just kind of took it and was just

Brian Nichols  17:38  
locked me down harder. Daddy? Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Shane (The Hapatarian)  17:41  
Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, they were just, it really kind of showed you that people don't really care about freedom. They don't really care about liberty. I know. I know. I'm sorry. It's a tough pill to swallow. But yeah, but what do you see what was what happened during that time? And luckily, now it's definitely a lot less of that. But you still see some people wearing masks in their cars. And you're just like, why? Well, come on. We're done with this. What are you doing? Yeah, so for me and my wife, we were both in that libertarian camp where, you know, oh, yeah, just do whatever. There's a lot more libertarians out there than you realize. But then like, I'll say it, I don't think so. So, we were kind of going down that path, and then becoming a dad, that really kind of made you go, Oh, it's and I know, it's that stereotypical kind of realization. But it really is true, where you see your son or daughter you just like, it's not just about me anymore. It's about taking care of this, like, innocent and vulnerable, wherever you want to call your child just, you know, you just sit in their ear there, they they rely on you. And that kind of makes you go oh, yeah, you know, before it was partying and doing all this stuff. And I'm gonna have time for that because it's not as important as maybe you once thought it was 510 years ago. And when you kind of get into that mindset, and I'm sure some of your listeners and aren't parents, but I'm telling you if once you do become a parent, it's it hits you like that, where you know, and there's gonna be some good days. AWS is amazing, and there's gonna be some tough days but that's just that's just the way it is. And I think that being a parent really kind of least free personally, it made me more right wing and even more conservative. I'm sure some of your listeners are more conservative, but it's true. Because I mean, I I'm trying to explain as best I can, and I can't really get the words out but It really does change your perspective on things from just the the realization that it's about family and about having that close knit community where people will help each other out. And it's not just about, oh, I can't wait to go to the club tonight, or I'm gonna kneel and drink 10 shots of whatever can't wait, the party is so yummy. Do that if you're going to do that, whenever, but then you got to start becoming an adult, just like when you're a libertarian, and you realize that not everybody around you believes in the same things you do, or even thinks about the same things that you do when it comes to politics. Those are some hard truths, man, some real hard truths to get to. I saw

Brian Nichols  20:51  
this video, it was going viral this morning recording here on Saturday. And it was this I think, your Russian or Eastern European guy, and he's in a parking lot. He's a big jacked guy. And he sees this 20 something year old punk from America, go and move his shopping cart from you know, putting the groceries in his car to in between cars up on like the ledge of the curb, instead of bringing it back to the cart return. And the big jacked Russian guy goes, grabs the car and moves the cart behind the guy's car before we get back out. And he goes the window and he's like, Hey, you forgot to put your cart away? And the kids like, oh, did I? And he's like, yeah, that's where I'm from, we consider that very, very offensive. And he actually like escorts the kid to show him air quotes show him where the cart return was because the key was like, Oh, I didn't even know and and just to see the cart return. And this has been like, you know, the whole libertarian thorn in the side, if you will, because we we only have our ideas make sense, if we assume that everybody is living by the same rules, right? But the shopping cart example, is the exact reason why I'm sorry, Libertarians is going to hurt. Libertarianism will not work. Because we have way too many people who aren't overtly already on board with doing the right thing. Now, this isn't to say that we should not be pushing towards the libertarian society where we get everybody on board. But we have to acknowledge the reality that right now, right where we are in the real world, not everybody is living by that mentality and going back towards the kid example and being a new parent. I mean, that is where it really has hit me when I see the approach that so many folks and I'm going to just lump for the sake of stereotypes for right now in this conversation the the greater left in this this camp of going after kids whether it's in the government schooling systems, or whether it's using the quote, drag queen story hours, or the marketing towards children throughout the children TV shows like I shouldn't have to worry about putting on Blue's Clues. And hearing that the new you know, the new salt shaker or whatever has they them pronouns like that, right there speaks to not just how how focused the left is at pushing for this indoctrination. But how disgusting it is that they are targeting the most vulnerable amongst us, our children. And that right there separates or I think the main conversation is Shane, is that we see our children as our kids, right that I helped raise my daughter, you helped raise your son, we were there in the delivery room, we were part from the very beginning to helping bring this little life into the world. And yet as soon as they're out of the womb, and they're no longer a fetus, according to the left. Now all of a sudden, they can be molded and manipulated to become some little leftist robot. I'm sorry. That's where I say no. And as you know, I'm not sorry, I'm not sorry for speaking the truth. And frankly, I think as we go towards final thoughts, I'll kick things off here, Shane, that is where I've gotten so frustrated with libertarians is that we are afraid of speaking truth because we're afraid of offending because we know that we're in third place. It's not even close, right? It's like 40% 40% and 5%. We're in the 5%. And we're not going to get anywhere if we just worry this this BS, middle middle the road, like live live to get along and no consequences and all that kind of live free approach. That's great. If you want to continue to lead stand in third place and frankly, stand for nothing. We have an obligation to approach things by speaking truth saying what's right and calling out what's wrong and I died firmly draw the line when we start going after kids that might make some people in my audience mad, good, get angry and understand why you're angry because you're being told no, you can't go after kids. That's where we are drawing the line. That's my final thoughts. Shane, what do you have for us on your end?

Shane (The Hapatarian)  24:47  
So to add on to that where a lot of the a lot of libertarians kind of have that live and let live and all that stuff and have that I guess, left wing mentality Oh, A lot of people who see that from the outside, whether it's looking at libertarians and Democrats or progressives or whoever, people that would be on the left, why would they go vote libertarian when there's already this massive party here Democrat, it's like, well, they're already saying the same things that we believe but I don't know, Democrats because they have a better chance of winning, it's all about winning at the end, it's you have to win, you know, Charlie Sheen winning, you know, that's, that's, that's the, that's the reality of it. And I don't know if that's why some people are looking at the Libertarian Party. Now, it's just a bunch of alt right. So I don't know, I was like, give them a chance, give them a chance to use the LP for however, they're going to use it. And if it doesn't work, great, you won that argument. And, but if they do end up growing it or whatever, then they want to give them a chance. If it doesn't work, then get them out, have some other people try. And then there you go, there's this continuous cycle of trying to get this third party going to however long it's gonna take for them to where, oh, maybe it will be 30% 30% 30%, or whatever it is for a third party to actually have a chance of having a president or even just a governor or something like that. Some kind of big, high level in the federal level. So I think that libertarians have to understand that and I think, and I'm sure you see it to where there are libertarians, or I guess, former libertarians, you can say where they were libertarian, they saw what was what's going on, they saw that they weren't really doing anything about it, because they don't have any means of trying to change anything. And they're like, I can't do this anymore. And they still have that philosophy, they still believe in some of the libertarians, but in terms of actually using that to your advantage. When does that mean? There's I'm sure there's some examples of where it's a little late little thing here and a little town there. But I don't know, it's it's kind of a weird thing where you know, oh, it's all about local politics. But then the federal level is really what gets people going. That's why the presidential election is so you know, whenever it's coming every four years, it's just everyone's out trying to vote for who they want. That's why it's going to be it's always Republican Democrat, unless you're Ross Perot back in the early 90s. But you know, so I guess the kind of wrap wrapped up that whole tirade, or whatever rant or whatever you want to call it. I just think that libertarians are people that are in like, the Liberty minded mindset, they just have to understand that you got to do a lot more than just sitting back and waiting for things to change on its own, because you're here, it's just not, it's not going to happen. You have to try and do something. Yep,

Brian Nichols  27:53  
you're gonna become rather we're going to become a culture that we don't even recognize. And frankly, I don't think a lot of us recognize the culture right now. From where I was, when I was graduating high school, graduating college to today, it's a different world, right? The conversations that we're having today would be like a, you know, oh, that's never going to happen. Why are we even having this conversation back? When we were in school, and yet, here we are today? Not only is it a topic of conversation, but they're already doing it. And now we're playing defense. And I don't know, man, I'm at the point now where I think we have to do something right. And not just to do something. And I talked about this many times in the show the danger of do something politics, but more so we actually have an obligation to stand up and to have an alternative way of thinking to the problems we're seeing and actually not be afraid to speak it. So thank you for what you're doing what Nico is doing over at the Hapa terian show and do us a favor, where can folks go ahead find that show but also go ahead support you then if they want to continue the conversation, we're gonna go ahead and find you.

Shane (The Hapatarian)  28:57  
So just search stop Attarian show over on YouTube. But then also bid shoot Odyssey just have a brand new rumble channel. So go fall, follow the show there. And then of course, any of the podcasting platforms if you just want to listen to it, and then follow me on Twitter at top Attarian. And you can follow me at appetit and Coco. So again, thanks, Brian, for having me on. I

Brian Nichols  29:19  
really appreciate it. Shane. Absolutely. Thank you for joining us and folks, if you got some value from today's episode, you know the drill go ahead and give it a share when you do please tag Yours truly, and Shane, all those links are included in the show notes. And by the way, if you missed the notice, yeah, we got D monetized there over on YouTube. So that's fun. So while we're still there, yes, please go subscribe to the show. Give us a like all that fun stuff. But just in case right go follow us on alternative forms of independent media rumble.com But I am a big fan of sovereign. It was actually built by our good friend here Ben Swann who's been on the show. And yeah, you want a reality check go to sovereign you'll see a lot of the conversations that are Taking place that aren't allowed in the mainstream and frankly, it's a conversation that we need to be having are many conversations we need to be having. So please go support independent media, like sovereign, you'll find The Brian Nichols Show over there as well. And also you can go ahead follow me on Twitter at BT Nichols Liberty also on Facebook at V. Nichols liberty, give me a follow I will follow back and give you a retweet if you go ahead and share the episode. And that's all we have for you today. So folks, please take away today's conversation. Don't just let it sit there and your your podcast catcher and say yeah, that was a nice conversation, do something about it changed the way that we're having these conversations impacting local communities. But with that being said Brian ago signing off here on The Brian Nichols Show for from Shane from the authoritarian show. We'll see you later.

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