Becoming a Citizen of the World

Speaker 2: 0:08

Hello everyone and welcome back to the Curious Ulsterman podcast, the podcast designed to equip you with the tools and wisdom you need to thrive as an adult. And we are back after summer break, folks, and to kick off the podcast today, I did an interview with Jack Forp from the band Avenue Sound, and in today's episode we discuss the unique challenges he and his generation faces as they start their journey into adulthood. We also discuss becoming a well rounded adult and transforming the education system. We also discuss how to be a good citizen of the world. But without further delay, folks, here is today's interview with Jack Forp. Jack, welcome to the show. Thank you, pleasure to be on, and we were just talking before. This is your first ever podcast, isn't it?

Speaker 3: 0:55

Yes, yeah, how you feeling it's good Bit nervous, it's alright.

Speaker 2: 1:02

Yeah, I was saying before as well. I'm 37 episodes in deep night at the minute and I'm still winging it. Yeah, it's like the nerves don't technically go away, you just become friends with them and you just like you know it keeps you on your toes. And it's an interesting one because, with this podcast being all about equipping young people with the skills and wisdom they need to thrive as an adult, but aren't taught in school. That's all very well and good, but just to let everybody know the secret, I'm 28 now and I'm still winging it in life. The 40 year old still winging it. Your grandparents are probably winging it, but we've just more experience in winging it, to be totally frank. But I feel like this is such an interesting experience because there's 10 years of difference between you and me and you're just starting adulthood and I've had 10 years experience of it, and I think we're going to have a really great conversation today because the past 10 years have not turned out how I thought they would, in both a positive and a negative way, because that's just life. But I'm going to be really interested to hear your perspective on this. So a quick bit of backstory for the audience. I actually met Jack here at Katie's bar. Big shout out and I thank you a million for letting us actually use their bar. We're in the upstairs part. I'll show a post of picture on Instagram. It's the most interesting recording place I've ever been to. We're overlooking Gosport high streets we speak. But yeah, I had a day. I watched in the rugby, randomly walked into Katie's bar and very cool bar. Can I just say I love the vinyl and the vibe. It's just a really cool place in Gosport, well worth checking out folks. But I remember coming in and I was very, very drunk at this point but I heard a song on the vinyl and I was like crap, I didn't get the shizama in time. It's the libertines.

Speaker 3: 3:01

The libertines yeah.

Speaker 2: 3:02

Thank you for remembering, and none other than you were behind the bar and I said, dammit, I didn't get the shizama in time. And I think you said to me, hold on a second. And you pulled a guitar off the wall and just started jamming and I was like, oh my God, this dude is so cool. So we had obviously got chatting. I figured out the song and then obviously, the reason I wanted to chat to you is because you are the age demographic that this podcast is aimed at, as well as uni students as well. You know people just leaving university, and I feel like you are, in a way, metaphorically speaking, the boots on the ground. You are the ones, your generation, the ones experiencing what it's just like to come into adulthood. So my first question to you really is what are you expecting from? Or, in fact, actually I'll be asking my second question. My first question is do you feel ready and equipped to become an adult? Do you feel like knowing roughly what you're in for, that you're equipped for it?

Speaker 3: 4:09

I think. So you sort of have to be nowadays you sort of truck straight in the deep end and you sort of have to go straight back into it. Like not straight into it, sorry, but yeah, I feel like secondary school and college they've helped me a bit. A lot I've had to do myself and a lot has come from working here, because I've been here two years now and yeah, that's helped a lot. I've become a lot more conscious of everything, like how to talk to people, how to just be a pretty decent human, I reckon. But yeah, I think I'm ready, like getting a house and everything. We're not quite there yet. But, just being an adult. I think we're pretty much ready. It's just, if you're a decent human, like things will happen If you're nice to people, they'll be nice to you, sort of thing.

Speaker 2: 5:13

Yeah, I really like that and I like what you said there about how it has somewhat prepared you, but you've had to do a lot yourself. There's that if you want the life you want, it's not just going to land on your lap. You need to actively pursue it with intentionality. Can you just go into some detail about some of the essential adult skills? You've had to do and learn it by yourself. No one's really showed you the ropes.

Speaker 3: 5:39

Well, I think in school we were never taught this. We were taught basic things like obviously, you go to infant school. We teach you this is how to be polite, this is how you're kind, this is your manners and everything. You've got the basics, but then you've got things like like holding a decent conversation. Yeah, we are now like learning how to deal with people, learning how to deal with situations like being able to read somebody. Yeah, like being able to see someone, see they're having a bit of a rough day and actually notice that instead of just carrying on as you would normally. But yeah, like that, as I said, I've learned here from working with everyone coming into a bar, just like just talking to them constantly, because it's what I've got to do and I think having to do it, being forced to do it for my job, that's it's worked out for the better, I reckon. Yeah, and even my family said that they've noticed a difference since going into work, noticed a difference in how I go about everything and how I treat people, so to speak, and the conversations we have.

Speaker 2: 6:52

Yeah, that's really cool and I think you're 100% right. I think that working in a place like a bar, you need to adapt or you're just not going to survive within that particular part of the hospitality industry. I know that. Certainly, when me and my mate came in here, you held a conversation very well and you know we chatted very well by in-depth stuff, in particular about some of the shortfalls I believe that education has. I'm not going to take a huge swipe at education here. I think teachers are amazing, especially with the whole aftermath of COVID, you know, amazing. People don't know how you do it. I couldn't do it, but I feel like and I don't know if education has changed, but I know that when I left school I had no financial literacy. I had no idea, as you say, how to hold a conversation. We did one day on how to do a basic job interview and some of the bare-bone basics of that. But in the grand scheme of things, much like yourself, I learned my adult skills for going to work and I feel like that's probably the most important thing you can do, even if you're working behind a till at a shop or a bar or you're going to college or whatever. I feel like work is where you really grow up, like it's almost, in a weird way, another form of education in school, but a school of life. So just oh, yeah, definitely yeah. What are your thoughts on that?

Speaker 3: 8:17

Well, in school you're stuck with the same people, although you might not but you might have like in different interests, but especially the school. I went to Broome Park in gospel. We're all from the same sort of walk of life, like although, as I said, we all have differences like we're all from the same background, we're all from the same place. And then I walk into the bar to work. I get people from all over the world.

Speaker 2: 8:44

Like I've met you from. Ireland.

Speaker 3: 8:48

Like I wouldn't have had that at school, and I think it's just as you go out into the wider world, the wider world sort of comes back to you as well. You're not sort, you're not sheltered, yeah.

Speaker 2: 8:59

That's going to be a podcast segment Very good. So, although it's multifaceted, the problem I think and we hear this, like even when I was at school kids are not being taught the real world skills. They're not being taught the hard and soft skills. I know that famous motivational speaker, simon Sinek. He talks about hard and soft skills and soft skills are just as important as hard skills. Like, for example, yeah, you can change a tyre, but can you hold a conversation? Can you read? Can you read somebody? Are you empathetic? But if you were to consolidate that into one major area or specific problem, what do you think is the biggest problem your generation faces as it enters adulthood and what would you do to fix it?

Speaker 3: 9:56

Is it cheating to say preparedness?

Speaker 2: 10:00

Not really. No, I mean it's not really cheating. I mean it's your perspective, but can you define preparedness?

Speaker 3: 10:09

Well, we're taught English, maths and science. Those are the three core subjects, and then you've got all the other ones on the side. But maths, for example, the vast majority of things you learn have no meaning in the real world. Like, you don't go to the shops and get out your calculator and start working out Pythagoras' theorem, like you go there and you want to know what's the best deal you can get, what's the best value for money, and that's just not taught and stuff like political education as well, like at college at the moment I study A-level politics and that's really helped, I think, and it's like I think the vast majority of people my age. They look at Boris Johnson, the Prime Minister, and they see him as a comedian. Who's a Prime Minister, whichever, anyone with any political, so a sandwich, yeah, anyway, they can look past that and they can see what's actually going on in the world. Yeah, it's more calculated that they go back. Yeah, like people. People don't know that we should vote. Like people. People like don't know what hardships of people have been through to be able to vote, especially with women 100. Yeah, and even just people of the working class as well, because before the suffragettes took movement, anyone of working class or people without property weren't able to vote, and it wasn't until that happened that people, that everyone could then vote, and I think that's hugely important. I think the history is quite often looked over and forgotten about and I think that needs to be brought back in as quickly as possible, because I hate the saying it's our country, because it's not. We're a world, we're all on the same planet.

Speaker 2: 12:18

We're a citizen of the world.

Speaker 3: 12:19

Yeah, we're a citizen of the world, but this is the country that we live in and anyone who does live in it. We need. We elect our leaders, and if people complain that they don't know, that they don't like what's going on, it's difficult because they don't like it, but they haven't done anything to change that from happening.

Speaker 2: 12:39

Yeah, 100%. And do you feel like because it's so interesting, you mentioned that because, in a roundabout way, if you don't vote for people who have your interests at heart and I use that word, I use that sentence in a sparingly, in that most politicians, I think, enter politics with good intentions and, unfortunately, the longer you spend in those circles, the more corruption is there, term limits and stuff like that but do you in my mind, when you've just said that, I have a think of, if you don't vote for people who have your intentions, if you don't raise these concerns with your local elected representative, then they're not going to change the education system in that, okay, the people, my local constituents, are asking for real world skills to be put into the education system. Okay, let's take this to the government. Okay, let's raise a bill. Okay, let's change the education system. So, in a roundabout way, about actively getting involved with politics, actively investing in your home community, in your own country, you do make, in a way, it's a roundabout way of investing in yourself and then you become a better citizen of the world and a more informed citizen and you can make better choices that benefit not only you, your family, your sphere of influence, but perhaps the world in general, like there's the whole butterfly effect isn't there of what you think. Your actions are insignificant, but somewhere on the other side of the world that small action you took has expanded to someone else. We'll never know. We're getting quite deep here, but that's quite good, isn't it? I really like what you said there. So I try not to get into politics on this podcast because A it's such a divisive subject and B I feel like and I don't mean to insult people here but I feel like people in their minds draw battle lines and are not willing to compromise on their own ideas and thoughts, so something and that's what needs to change.

Speaker 3: 14:34

Yeah, 100%.

Speaker 2: 14:36

And just from your perspective, how would you go about introducing that subject, like educating people on basic politics, without it devolving into tribal warfare, so to speak? Because something I've been very fortunate with is I've had a lot of good mentors which, going back to what you said earlier preparedness they prepared me adequately in a lot of ways. I had to do a lot of learning myself, but they set the foundations for me being a good man and the man I am today. But with politics, unfortunately, coming from Northern Ireland, I'm not sure if you're aware of the political situation there, if you did cover that in A-level politics, but it's a mess, yeah, it's a there's no other way to put it. It's a mess and it's very tribal and there's no compromise and it's just a shame really. I mean, how would you introduce that such a passionate subject into school, into your generation, without it devolving into I'm conservative and the labor of the bad guys, or I'm labor and conservatives are all evil? How would you encourage that not to take place?

Speaker 3: 15:52

I think there's a way to teach politics and the way of the world without going into parties and without going into oh, this person's right, this one's not. So, for example, one of the first conversations we had were should 16 and 17 year old be able to vote?

Speaker 2: 16:10

Oh, that's an interesting one.

Speaker 3: 16:12

See, that doesn't bring in the labor-conservative divide at all. It's a way of bringing in the subject of politics without going into the parties and that side of it. Because you've got so many other aspects like how the country works, no matter who's in power, what the role of the prime minister is, how they work, what they do, and, yeah, I think that that can be done because it doesn't bring in anything. And it's like you go out to a gig on a Friday night why does the music have to stop at half 11? Why have I got to be 18 to buy an alcoholic drink? Yes, why is there a bouncer on the door? And then it's when you bring up all of them questions, you realize, well, that's because the country's run that way and it's just starting. Small things like that, like you said, like the butterfly effect, like the domino effect, small things, they all lead up to the one big thing, which is how the country is run in the vast majority of places. Like, yeah, I think it can be done by opening up those small conversations with small subjects, people, something that everyone is interested in. Yeah. And then just working up and explaining how it works, and I think that I think that's perfectly possible without going into party politics.

Speaker 2: 17:37

Yeah, 100%. I really like that answer. Do you feel like politics in general, like that style of teaching, should be compulsory, much like the STEM fields I do?

Speaker 3: 17:49

Yes, I think there are a lot of subjects which I think should be mandatory which sadly aren't, politics being one of them.

Speaker 2: 17:56

So, before you go on, you just said something really interesting there. You said other subjects. Before you continue with the politics theme, could you just expand on what you mean by other subjects, because I'd be very keen to hear that. Religious studies oh, that's a bit, I was not expecting that one. What were you expecting? Maybe financial literacy? Oh, ok, but no, but that's really interesting. So you've given me a bit of a dilemma here. Because the politics thing is so interesting, because we do need to talk about it, because there is a divide, not just in this country but in the West in general. So there just seems to be no compromise, like in a weird way. I always looked at Northern Irish politics and it's like OK, we're the ones that are uncompromising. There's no, we're the ones that won't compromise. There's very clear divides and it seemed in the mainland, especially in the 90s, early 2000s From my perspective at least, it seemed like, ok, battle lines are drawn, but they're still compromised. Now it seems in a weird way, we're more divided than ever. So I feel like it's really important to talk about politics, but I wasn't expecting religious studies. Why do you think religious studies should be compulsory for all students in education?

Speaker 3: 19:05

Because it not only teaches tolerance, it also teaches people how others live and different walks of life, like why, why do some people believe in God? Why don't others believe in God? And it's like it's an understanding, and I think that's also important because it can also relate to politics as well. Oh yeah, very good, because it's like you said look at Northern Irish politics you've got the Catholic Protestant divide 100%. And it's like you've got all of the rights and all of the things relating from religion which goes into politics. If you look back into the medieval ages or even like back in the ancient world, religion was at the forefront of everything. Oh yeah, 100%. Like you had all of the gods in charge of everything. Like, look at Greek or Roman mythology, you've got all of the different gods for everything, and then slowly that leads into philosophy with the likes of Plato and Aristotle. Oh, that's a good thing. Questioning everything. Yeah, questioning everything. And that's from religion, and that leads to an early form of democracy, which democracy is at the forefront of politics.

Speaker 2: 20:27

Oh, so it's all connected?

Speaker 3: 20:28

Yeah, because everything's connected and then, yeah, so you've got that. And then it all just evolves into the idea of a God, a higher power, and then the church forms, and then that provides a basis for all of the laws in society.

Speaker 2: 20:47

Yeah, and the basis of Western civilization as we currently know it.

Speaker 3: 20:52

Precisely. Yeah, because when you look to the Eastern world of Japan, china, india, their philosophies are completely different. Yeah, you look at. I think in the Eastern world there's a lot more emphasis on the beauty of nature and the beauty of life in general. I think there's a Japanese idea, which I don't know if I pronounce it properly, but it's known as Wabi Savi, which is the idea that you need to admire the imperfection in the world, and the imperfection of the world is what makes the world perfect. And that yeah, so there's a I can't remember where, but there is a garden somewhere in Japan which is covered in 15 stones and no matter where you stand in the garden, you can never see all 15. Oh. And that's to emphasise the fact that, no matter where you are, nothing's perfect, and you've got to admire the perfection within that. Oh, wow Because you've sort of got to admit that it's quite impressive that some guy created this garden with the exact measurements that you're not able to see the 15th stone at any point.

Speaker 2: 22:17

Yeah, that's mind-blowing to me because that's touched on a personal struggle in my own life and at the minute I'm really wrestling with whether to commit to my current career or to stay within the SIEM industry but go to a different job. And I'm like, oh well, it could be a lot better on this side or it could not. And I'm like I think I'm trying to personally find perfection where I am, but no matter where I go, there's always going to be some form of imperfection and that's really good. I really like that. One of the best quotes I ever heard from he's one of the higher-uppers within the maritime industry where I work and he said he was actually chatting to a couple of people who were talking about leaving and they gave the reasons why and he said those are very valid reasons. But just something I say to my own children is be careful when the grass is greener on the other side, because just remember, it's fertilised with a different kind of shit. And I was like and that completely opened my mind to like okay, yes, I see all the good here, but there's never a perfect job. Like, I love podcasting but there is a side to podcasting which I don't like, which is the editing, which is why I gave it to my main sound editor. There's the organising trying to find guests. I love speaking to people, but there's obviously the logistics of coordinating times and schedules and things and that's not the fun bit of podcasting. This is what I absolutely love about podcasting having authentic conversations with really interesting people. But after this, if I didn't have my sound editor, I'm not gonna be like crap, I've got to edit all this and listen to it again like, oh man, but do you mind if I ask you a personal question on religion? If you tell.

Speaker 3: 24:08

Yeah, go ahead.

Speaker 2: 24:09

Can you, Do you identify with any religion, faith or anything of that nature?

Speaker 3: 24:14

No, no, no. I don't consider myself religious, but what I do believe is there is a higher power. Yeah. Not God. Yeah. But something. Yeah. There's something up there because, it's just mind-blowing, yeah, to think that all of this world happened by chance.

Speaker 2: 24:35

Yeah, I'm very big into astronomy myself and it's so interesting. You mentioned tolerance and why that teaching religious studies would encourage that. So, for example, although I am the founder and host of this show, I do have a co-host who comes on every few episodes and he's a Christian and we get out like he is one of my best mates in the world and we get along so well. Even though I'm not religious, believe it or not, I did used to be. I used to be a Christian and then I left that faith on good terms. I know a lot of people don't have a great experience with religion. Mine was great. I loved it while I was in there, but I just heard better arguments and I felt you know what these arguments make more sense to me and I left my religion on good terms, still friends with all my Christian mates and you know it's all great. But seeing, I feel like I've got a unique perspective from being on the inside, I'd say inside, if you meet a decent Christian, they're very open. It's not a secret club, yes, but I've seen both sides. For me, I would more identify as a stoic, which is so interesting when you mentioned Aristotle, plato I know maybe they're not stoics, quote unquote but Marcus Aurelius. You know when he was. I don't want to say I'm benting stoicism, but embodying it at least. I just find it so interesting and so refreshing to hear someone who's not religious place such an importance on that Not in the sense of this may make you feel good, or that it's just. You need to understand this. You are going to encounter Christians, muslims, sikhs, atheists and every other belief system in the world, and it's key that you understand where they're coming from so that you can live in harmony with these people. I'm so refreshing to hear that. I must admit, oh gosh, we went down the rabbit hole there, didn't we? It's great. I think we did chat a lot about politics and you did mention preparedness in that regard. Do you feel like there's any other skills? Like for me off the bat, I wish I had more financial literacy. And just a note for the audience, I have secured a financial advisor. He is coming on soon. Very, very busy man. Unfortunately, he's booked out like a month or two in advance, so I'm trying to get him on. We're going to hold a special episode so you can all ask your questions, but in the meantime, do you feel like Because preparedness I'm glad you said that answer because it allows the conversation to go anywhere Do you feel? Well, here's two questions what do you feel the most prepared for going in as an adult and what do you feel the least prepared for? Sorry, iciğağıniring.

Speaker 3: 27:23

Oh start of what I'm least prepared for. Okay, that gives me more time to think about what I'm more prepared for, which is surely a bit of a problem. If I'm most prepared, I should probably know what it is.

Speaker 2: 27:43

It's always the way it is, especially when you're thinking like crap, what am I prepared for? You're probably more prepared than you think, yeah.

Speaker 3: 27:50

No, but, as you said, least prepared for probably my age group as a whole financial literacy. As you said, every month when I get pays, I'll put a bit of side into my savings account a bit of side, into the various different things I need to do throughout the month. And then I've got my spending money. I know that most of my friends don't do that. I know most of my friends don't know how to do that. Something as simple as setting up a savings account with your bank, and yeah, that's hugely important. But other than that, I have no idea where I'd go. Like, yeah, so I wanted to set up, like a direct debit to a charity, for example. I'd have no idea where to go. Yeah, it's just one example, but yeah, I know it's so much. There's so much more to it than probably even my parents or grandparents know about. Yeah, but it's a problem because we're just not taught it. Yeah, so I'd say myself and pretty much everyone my age group would be, would aren't prepared for that as much as they should be Most prepared. For I'd probably go with the importance of meeting new people.

Speaker 2: 29:13

Oh, that's good.

Speaker 3: 29:13

Yeah, because you see it every day. It happens every day. First day of college, I meet new teachers, I meet new students who are to become new friends. I go to a job. I meet well, potentially a new boss, new workmates. You need to know how to hold a conversation and everything how to get on the right terms with people. Yeah. And I feel like I have been quite prepared with that and I feel like I have got the Well, certainly a lot more experience than possibly other people on how to do that, that particularly being the line of work that I am in at the moment. Yeah, and I think that's going to be important. Moving on to the next stage after college, which is university, because, well, most of the application is built off of knowing what you have to say and knowing what it is that interests you, knowing how to talk to other people about it.

Speaker 2: 30:16

Yeah, yeah, 100%, and I feel like you are ahead of the game in a lot of ways, like you seem a lot more educated and a lot more open-minded than a lot of people I have met. Now I am not saying, for example, when I was 18, all my generation were closed-minded or anything like that, and I am not saying your generation is either, but it seems to be that you have been very fortunate with your life choices, that you've managed to get this leg up, so to speak, these unique experiences which will benefit you in the years to come. For those people who feel for lack of a better description perhaps socially anxious, or they feel like they don't have those skills, what's your advice to your fellow 18-year-olds or 17-year-olds who are just coming in and it's like, well, this is all well and good, you having this skill, but I don't have these skills and how am I supposed to get them?

Speaker 3: 31:21

I hate to be the guy who says it, but I think the best thing you can do is just Sometimes you have just got to chuck yourself in the deep end, like Like I'm in a band, for example. Oh cool. And that comes out that like hugely, I'm on stage and it's knowing how to interact with the audience, like there's no way of learning how to do that without going on the stage and interacting with the audience for the first time. That's the only way that can be done, like what you said with podcasting, like I've never done this before. You say you're still winging it a bit, but the best way you've probably found to do it is to just go out there and do it.

Speaker 2: 32:03

Yeah, 100%.

Speaker 3: 32:05

Like it's the same with everything Quite a lot of people my age, just about to turn 18, looking forward to going clubbing for the first time. So I think if you apply the same philosophy to that, it's like well, I don't know if I'm going to enjoy it, well, you've just got to go, you've got to go and do it. And I think the way you'd go about just doing it it's just you start off small, so like if you're in college, like me, for example, just anything, if you're anywhere and you see someone like they look fairly interesting, I'll go over. You go over and say hello and just try and start a conversation. Because I know a few years ago I would never have been able to do that and I think possibly even being forced into it is like that was the best thing for me. I say because it makes you learn. It's not a matter of do you want to learn or not, it's the you have to, otherwise you don't get paid.

Speaker 2: 33:00

It's so interesting you say that because yesterday I saw a really interesting video on Facebook of all places. Like, thankfully, my Facebook is quite wholesome. That's my one advice, actually for people who are 18 and above Make sure your social media is full of wholesome stuff and stuff that builds you up. Because, like, there was a point where my social media was the news and a lot of things which just either made me angry or made me a bit sad and I was like, why am I subscribed to this? So, like you know, I've only got good stories, interesting stories, that kind of thing, 100% Enjoy those cat photos. Yes, don't feel ashamed of those puppy photos and dog videos and stuff, but something it rings so true what you just said, because, to my surprise, otters, which are obviously one of the best swimmers in the animal kingdom, baby otters have an instinctual fear of water for the first time and they will not go in the water, despite being one of the best swimmers. And I watched a video yesterday of this apparently quite common behavior, where there is the mother and I'm not sure what you would call a collection of otters, but like the group of otters right, and everyone jumped in and all these baby otters were stood there like we're not jumping in, not a chance, and the mother, one by one, either kicked them into the water or dragged them into the water and obviously there was that initial moment of panic and they go oh crap, I've actually evolved to do this and I like water. So in a weird way, coming back to what you just said, even though we have that instinctual fear of this, makes me really uncomfortable. What do I look? Silly or what do I get embarrassed? Maybe that little shove from someone who loves you or like how's your best interest at heart into that uncomfortable situation and you'd be surprised how quickly you stand on your own two feet.

Speaker 3: 34:57

Precisely. Sometimes you have got to be a bit cruel to be kind. Yeah, definitely.

Speaker 2: 35:03

Something you said I do want to very quickly chat about is you talked about the first time you got on stage with your band and having them direct with the audience. Did you ever suffer from a little bit of imposter syndrome, Like why am I here? Who am I qualified really to be doing this? Did you ever have those kinds of feelings?

Speaker 3: 35:29

I don't think so. No, I don't. The first time I was on stage with my band, it was really surreal. Even this time, like gigs and gigs down the line, it's still surreal each time. See like to the point of seeing people turn up for you. It's like not just for a night out to see some music. They know you're there, they're coming to see you and that's surreal every time. But the first time it was a bit weird, but then you've just got to realise, like you've got to live in the moment a bit, you can know that moment, although you'll do another gig, that gig is the only one you'll ever do and you've got to make it special either way.

Speaker 2: 36:18

I tell you what your wife's been on for a year. It's taken me until I was 27 or 28 to get into Stoases and live in the moment. Be present. Here you are 10 years earlier getting in on it, Thank you. Yeah, man, it's so interesting because, I'll be totally honest, I did have a massive imposter syndrome when I first started podcasting. I did my first two or three episodes, even though I still booked back in cringe a little bit, because I'm like, oh my gosh, the guests were great. I think the content was mostly great, but just the way I carried myself. Obviously, when you're new to it, you're like, oh my goodness, this is awful. But then five star reviews keep rolling in and people are like, oh, this really helped me here, or thank you for this, and it's mad. So, for example, it's a bit surreal in that what you just said, we will never do this podcast again. At this rate, you're going to be a repeat guest in the podcast, but this moment right now, we will never experience it again, which is a bit surreal now that you think about it. And, in the same way, when you're on stage with your band, every gig is unique and that's such a powerful concept because I feel like my generation, your generation, because we live in such an age of technology and being connected, we're constantly playing the comparison trap, like somebody who's already got a house ahead of you, or somebody's getting married and having kids ahead of you or you're looking back and thinking, crap, that was a stupid mistake and that's easy because hindsight's 20-20. But I feel like that's something that's not taught in school living in the moment, being present, enjoying where you are right now and that's where I took up meditation about five, six years ago and man, 100%, that's really good. Can I have a big shout out to Headspace? Like I have lived on that app for about six years now, every single day. I did use that app briefly as well, actually Did you? Yeah, to be fair, because I've done it for so long. It's not just an ingrained habit that if I'm feeling a bit stressed out or anxious or something, I'll just meditate. I don't really need the app, but I do every single night without fail. I've got the little thunder sleep thing, so I fall asleep to rain and thunder. That does me a world of good, but something I would say actually it's just piggybacking off what you said earlier Be intentional with your rest, because I feel like this world is 100 miles an hour all the time, like there's also this thing of hustle culture and it's like, okay, yes, work hard to achieve where you want to go, but I feel like rest is almost demonized, especially amongst, you know, 18-year-olds. My generation is like, oh, you're lying in bed scrolling on your phone through TikTok. Shame on you, why are you not hustling, why are you not? It's like you need to intentionally rest. And a really good recommendation I would have for 18-year-olds uni students, I think is a really good TED talk on the seven different types of rest, which blew my mind because I just thought rest is, you know, go to sleep, sleep it off, whatever. But no, there's seven different types of rest. There's like digital rest, creative rest, social rest. I'll let yous all watch the TED talk and read the article, but that's really, really important to know. Do you feel like that's something that's not taught as well the ability to not only be present but to intentionally rest?

Speaker 3: 39:56

No, it's not talked about at all. If anything, like you said, it's frowned upon. Yeah, like we go to school, we go to college Knowing at the end of it we have exams. It's constantly looking towards the future. If you look behind or if you look in the present, it's like shame on you. Yeah, it's like constantly looking towards the future and it's like hold on, let's just live in the moment a second 100%. What do you mean?

Speaker 2: 40:21

I'm sorry, go on.

Speaker 3: 40:22

It's got like we've just had a really interesting lesson. Why can't we just think about it for a bit, like we don't have to use that straight away to go to the next thing. It's like although there are going to be exams at the end of it, which I do disagree with- oh yeah, on the same page here, yeah. Yeah, like the whole of the school system's outdated, yeah, at least to be changed.

Speaker 2: 40:45

If I had, my way, we would try and go with the finished system, which is about looking up. It's an amazing education system in that I'm not sure in the exact details, but I do remember reading about some high that like, for example, kids don't go to school until they're six or seven. They prioritize play in court, talking to others, engaging with other kids, so they build them social skills. And then there isn't different subjects. Like, for example, science and math are not separate subjects because they're so intertwined in the real world they're actually one subject so you learn about both at the same time, which makes a lot more sense than they regularly are like top of the charts. I do think they have exams, but they're not the be all and end all. I think there's like other criteria you are assessed upon. But 100 percent we do need to change the education system because, like fair play for all the people who get, like free A stars and A's across the board, I'm really happy for you, but that's because you, from an evolutionary point of view, benefit from being able to retain more information. You're predisposed to do that If you're someone who is a fantastic welder, a fantastic plumber, a fantastic real hands on kind of person. But you suck at like remembering 10 pages of information you're never going to use again, and then on your on your sheet, it's like, oh well, this guy's a dummy or this girl's a dummy. Yeah, man, come on, there's better, there's more ways to assess a human being than can you retain loads of information and put it onto a piece of paper in an hour and a half, do you want? To make.

Speaker 3: 42:19

Yeah, I know some people in the upper six who have just left. They're written. They're now resitting their second year of sick form because they didn't get the grades they needed to get into their university. Yeah. And it's like fair enough, like I know people want to do well and that's like that's only admirable, but, like you said, it's not the Beowel Endall, like there's so much more to it and like it's just a letter.

Speaker 2: 42:48

Yeah, 100% yeah.

Speaker 3: 42:49

Right, how fair is it to base all of the chances you're getting life off of off of a letter? Yeah. Like I don't agree with him completely in everything he says, but Jeremy Clarkson, with this year, with his yearly A level A level tweet, and it's like what was it like? I got two B's in the sea, but I'm now I'm now sat here driving, my, driving, my land Rover or whatever. Like I'm now sat here with three million Like yeah, yeah exactly. Fair play like that Like yeah, fair play to him because he's realized that grades don't matter. They don't. And like, fair play to people who do like, do work themselves, work themselves to the bone to get the grades that they need or the grades that they want. Yeah, but there needs to be a whole lot more emphasis on that. That's not the only thing. Yeah. And I think a change to the exams would be very helpful for that. Like basing all of your two years of work on to one exam. Yeah, so you didn't sleep well the night before. Yeah, or you go into college with a headache. You didn't eat the right thing before. It's the simple things like that which change, which change your mindset dynamic. Which you were in the day before so a worse one on the exam day. That's not fair.

Speaker 2: 44:07

Yeah, it's a very one dimensional way of managing someone, oh yeah precisely, and I think it was.

Speaker 3: 44:13

It was fairly stressful at first because we'd never done it before, but I think the fairest way that exam results have ever been released was through COVID. Yeah, like I was in the code, I was in the COVID year. Yeah, I never I never took any real GCSEs, but I still got GCSE grades because it was based off of the five years that I've done at secondary school. Yeah, the four years at C at junior school and like everything that was building up for that one moment. It all helped it and it wasn't just based off of an hour and a half sitting at a desk writing constantly. Yeah, I think that's such a fair way of doing it and it helps people who aren't as academic, academically inclined, because it shows that there is still chance for people to improve, because you could be getting rather low grades at the start and then working up to getting really high ones and then completely bombing exam day. Yeah, and it's like that's not fair because that's not the grade that you deserved, just because you weren't feeling 100% on the day. Yeah, like yeah that. That. Yeah, not you to change.

Speaker 2: 45:26

You are. You are 100% right. It's just a more common sense way of doing it, isn't it? Precisely yeah, how do you feel like school and the system in general prepares you for life? With regards to mental health, it's improving.

Speaker 3: 45:40

Okay, I say it's improving, but there is a lot more that needs to be done. Yeah, so at my sixth form we have a mental health specialist yeah who you can go and talk to. But and there's posters up in a few places, like in the common rooms and like if you need help, it's okay to talk and all that, yeah, but that's all we've got at the moment. There's not really. I think we had one assembly a few years ago back at secondary school saying treat people with kindness, you don't know what they're going through, type of thing, yeah, but it doesn't stick. Like yeah, people will go into an assembly for 20 minutes, listen to well, not, probably not even listen to it and then leave again, but that's all we've got. And I think, like, especially with like, not just in schools but the world in general, like like people of people in my generation and pretty much any generation, there's a mental health crisis, 100% mental health epidemic that needs to be sorted. Like we've got 18 month long queues to see a mental health specialist and, like you, know what can happen in, who knows what can happen in 18 months? Yeah. Like, sometimes people need someone that day, that hour. Yeah. But there's not sufficient funding for it. Yeah. There's no, there's no sufficient help for it, and it needs to be addressed immediately. Yeah. Because, yeah, it's not fair. We've been. The whole society that we live in sets us up, Unless unless we're part of the ideal mode of the machine yeah that we go to it sets you up for failure. Yeah, 100%. Because unless, yeah, unless, unless you're in that the world won't help you. The country won't help you, because that's not what you want. The country wants a reliable workforce. Yeah. But you're not going to have a reliable workforce that's under, slept, overstressed, having to wait 18 months for help when they need it. Yeah, and it's like it's all sort of a bit of a um, oh, what's the word? Not complex, I don't know. It'll pop to me. Yeah, it's always a way paradox. That's the one. It's a bit of a paradox, like you can't expect an efficient workforce when you're not providing the help that everyone needs. But yeah, no, a lot more definitely needs to be done.

Speaker 2: 48:25

Yeah, I have a lot of the opinion that, like, obviously you would have to do a mass recruitment drive, but I feel like it would be immensely beneficial, primarily to people but secondarily to the economy, if you had, like, a therapist or some sort of counselor in every workplace, in school, oh, 100%, Because I mean, you know, I big, a big thing that really helped me was I actually did choose to go to therapy there. Love was it last year I think it was. And man, like, that's one of the best things I ever did. That's probably another bit of advice I would say. And that go to therapy. Like, even like as 18 or 19 year olds, you say, oh, I don't need it. The moment someone says that I'm like, yeah, okay, you need it. And even if you've, like, had great parents, you've had an ideal upbringing, all as well, you still fall prey to some mind traps. So, for example, an easy mind trap is the comparison game. You know I'm in the comparison trap. You know, comparing you're a chapter five to someone's chapter 20. And it's like that's just one and then there was no one you know could have, should have, would have trap. You know, in hindsight, of course, in hindsight now, with more knowledge and experience. You know you should have done a, a, b or c, but something I would definitely invest in go and see a therapist, even if it's like once a year or once a quarter, because they can spot things. Like if you don't know, you're an aspar, they can spot it and then you can get the help you need and then you're not waiting 18 months because you're already established with a therapist or a counselor. Do you want me? And that's just my own, my own two cents.

Speaker 3: 50:01

You go to the doctors or the dentist for a yearly or 100% or like um, or like every six months check up. So, but like, mental health is the exact same. Yeah, Just because you can't see it, it doesn't matter. It doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. Yeah. Whether your mental health is good or bad, everyone still has it.

Speaker 2: 50:21

Yeah, 100%.

Speaker 3: 50:21

And not everyone is qualified to know whether it is good or bad, especially yourself.

Speaker 2: 50:27

So I agree, Because it's bias isn't there Exactly.

Speaker 3: 50:30

Yeah, everyone will always try and convince themselves that it's okay. Yeah, even to the rest of the world. It's obvious that it's not.

Speaker 2: 50:36

Yeah, Do you feel like, um, because obviously I think for times have changed, but as a bloke, do you feel like there's still a pressure on other blokes, that it's not that like it's a sign of weakness to talk about your mental health? As I've gotten older it's not a problem anymore. But I know, certainly when I left school in 2009, like you don't, you wouldn't say you were, you were stressed or had anxiety or anything like that because it's just, it just wasn't talked about. It was kind of like a bit of a okay, who's this weirdo? Kind of thing, Whereas now I feel like it is a bit more liberal. But do you feel like at your age group it's still like it's a no, no, talking for blokes because it's a side, pretend they perceive it as a sign of weakness.

Speaker 3: 51:24

I agree it's certainly a lot better than it was In certain situations. Yeah, I think that, yeah, there are times when people think like, oh, you do want to talk about something. This like should I, shouldn't I like? And there's, there's still that moment of thought, I think, and that's that's what needs to be eradicated. Yeah. Because, like, it's okay to talk, sort of thing. Yeah, the hashtag that goes around, which it truly is, and it needs to happen. I think sometimes there is Certainly a little bit of pressure that I'm having having a bit of a rough day, so I'll come a man up like yeah. Yeah, like that that statement can be so damaging or 100 man up. Yeah, yeah. So like the amount of things that that tells someone. It's like, especially being, as you're, a male. Yeah, it's like if you're being told to man up. It's like what, am I not manly enough? Already I'm a male how well, male, can I?

Speaker 2: 52:27

get.

Speaker 3: 52:28

Yeah, exactly, it doesn't matter how you put across who you are, like you could be the most Feminine male going, so to speak, but that doesn't mean that you need to man up at all, because it's who you are. Yeah, yeah, but I so I think that is. It can be quite damaging, but I think it certainly is improving. Yeah, I know my friendship group, for example. They're all brilliant. There's no, there's no, anything of like, oh, don't, don't bother talking about it. It's all like, if you need to talk, like talk because, yeah, we all realize how important it is and we know that it doesn't actually matter. Yeah and no. Like, at the end of the day, no one cares.

Speaker 2: 53:11

Yeah, I think that's the big realization A lot of people need. Yeah, exactly care.

Speaker 3: 53:15

No, no, five years from now, the person who told me I don't, don't worry about, don't talk about that, it doesn't matter, they're not gonna remember that, no, but the other person would oh, hundred percent, yeah, and it's just the realization of like, well, well, why does it matter what they've said? I know what's best for me.

Speaker 2: 53:40

I need to, yeah, yeah, grab it and reach it, and I think that's so important knowing, knowing what is best for you and not basing your, your thoughts, opinions and things like. Take that into account. But, you know, based on you know the man who you want to be. There's a really good quote which I'm gonna butcher now from. I think it was A pictodus, he was one of the Stoics and he's like you know, if you're looking for outside validation, recognize you've compromised your own integrity. You know, be your own witness. You know, because he, he was getting lauded with you're the best things and sliced bread and other people were telling them you're like literally the worst Things that were happened to the civilization. It's like well, don't, don't rely on applause, don't reply, don't rely on people booing. You, rely on your own witness, rely on your own inner integrity. You know and I feel like that's that's so important what you just said, that you said something that actually brings me nicely to my next question. You mentioned that five years in the future, you know that person who said that thing they're not gonna remember. You are, which I'll just add because it teaches people that their feelings aren't valid and you know that men can't be vulnerable which they can be. Just find the right. Find the right tribe, find your good friends. You know you're very fortunate to have that group of friends, and I am as well. But what are you expecting from the first five years of adulthood, just in both general experiences, positive and negative? But what are you, what are you anticipating it's gonna be like, well, when you first turn 18?

Speaker 3: 55:13

everything's exciting, you can do everything. You can do everything legally Something, something's a whole new world. Oh yeah, yeah, like I mentioned earlier, I think.

Speaker 2: 55:23

Like you get 18, you can go clubbing, you can buy alcohol, you can do all the stuff like that.

Speaker 3: 55:27

There is so much more to it than that, obviously, but it's just like those first two things and it's like everyone's going mad. Yeah, I think that's a good thing and it's like everyone's going mad. Yeah, but no, like. Obviously, all that happens In terms of like university, possibly like I don't know, but I Don't know where I'm gonna be in eight months when I finish yeah, exactly, it's just like. But they're still the constant pressure like you must go to university and all that stuff, yeah, yeah. Yeah, not much thought for people who Know that they don't want to know, that that's not the right thing for them to do. Yeah. But no, like We'll go with the assumption that I'll go to university, okay, and that's. That'll be fun. Like I'll meet loads of new people, learn those new skills and all that and it'll be exciting. Like people say that that's the best time of your life. Even though you're going back to education yeah, they, you don't actually have to people still say it's the best time of your life. Yeah. So yeah, I'm looking forward to that. If I end up going them Negatives, who knows this? I like Living life by the day. See what the to see what the day brings. I like that. See what? If so, if one day chucks, chuck something at you, it's like, okay, let's not have a meltdown over it, let's, let's adapt and let's let's work the best way around it.

Speaker 2: 57:06

You sure you're not a stoic, you're a secret still, okay, I see you from afar, just just identify as a years time. I knew it, I knew it.

Speaker 3: 57:22

But no, it's just learning to deal with everything, like if something negative happens, fine, use it to your advantage.

Speaker 2: 57:28

Yeah, very true.

Speaker 3: 57:29

It's like every cloud has a silver lining. Yeah, like you can. You can turn every negative into a positive. I think, like if you've had a bad experience, you can use that to Turn it into a positive one. No, the light. Okay, don't do that again. Maybe don't go there again, or maybe do this next time. Mm-hmm, I think that's that's. I Think, if anything, possibly the negative experiences are going to be better than the positive ones.

Speaker 2: 57:54

Yeah, it's very interesting to say that. Yeah, because you do it is. Failure is the biggest teacher in life, isn't it Exactly?

Speaker 3: 57:59

Yeah, yeah yeah, like they'll bring All of your failures in life. They bring you new Advances, so to speak. They'll bring you new, new things to learn. What can I do better next time, yeah, sort of thing. But all the positives is sort of like all brilliant, yeah, it's been a really good day, but I haven't really learned anything. I've just had a good time and obviously that's so important. But you can't live your life constantly just in the negative moments, thinking always fine on learn something from it. Of course it's important to have Like loads of positive things happen, but no, it's a, it's a healthy balance. You need the em. There's a key. It's a healthy yes, it's a healthy balance of positives and negatives. You need the positives, but the negatives will help you. Constructive criticism.

Speaker 2: 58:46

I like that. Yeah, yeah, celebrate the wins. Learn from the the field yeah. I am. It's so interesting you said that because my I was actually being a hypocrite and I was like as a stoic. They say oh, don't complain, and I say stoicism, I'm up to my angles in that I'm still like massively learning about it. But I was in my granddad shed last week and I Was saying I was complaining about we're currently like working with leaves at the minute and work and it's like sometimes it's tedious, sometimes you're like sweating buckets because of the, the workshop. It just holds the heat and and it's hard, hard graft and I was sort of complaining a little bit and he goes yeah, yeah, I understand, I understand. Just bear in mind that no experiences is His weight is a waste. It's like you, it was always something to learn from that experience. I was like, actually that's very true because while I'm sweating away over this leave, I'm going to appreciate the times. I'm not okay. Actually I'm learning a really useful skill working on a leave, you know, and I'm learning patience. I'm learning to be. I have to be present, focusing on this leave, because you know the tolerances or you know not, point not one, and you have to. You don't have time to be thinking about the future of the past. You need to be present. In this moment of teaching, being present. There are so many positive experiences that I could not see from that, but that negative experience that I perceived as a negative experience and and it took my granddad the point that out to me that no experience is wasted, and and it's interesting that my granddad said that to me and now you're saying it and I'm like I missed the memo what is it? They're teaching the schools. All these 18 year olds are more clever than I was, like when I left, you know, and the only, moving on to that, the next thing I wanted to ask you actually was what are you looking forward to most as you enter adulthood?

Speaker 3: 1:00:51

Oh see, I was taught. I was talking to my mum about this last night. Oh yeah. I joked her and I was like, oh, I can buy stuff on finance. Obviously, being a musician, everything's expensive, oh that'll be fun, but no. Seriously, I think the thing I'm looking forward to most is the thing I look forward to most. Also, the thing that will probably bring you down most is the freedom. All right, because it's again it's positive and negative lot. I'm looking forward to having to make all of my own choices, even down to like watch. Look at the dinner tonight. Yeah, like, what shall I do today? Where shall I go? Yeah, I just think the freedom it will be. It'll be brilliant, yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:01:38

I'll be. I'm sorry to interrupt 100%. That was the biggest thing. I loved it. Well, you're like, you are free to make your own decisions, like the consequences are yours there to oh exactly. But at the same time it's not. It's finally nice to be wrecked, to be given that credibility and recognize you are fully Fledged adult. You still a lot to learn, but in the eyes of the law you are your own man or woman.

Speaker 3: 1:01:58

Oh, exactly, yeah, yeah, yeah, that couldn't. Yeah, this, yeah, it's good and bad, yeah, yeah, no one wants to be, oh, it's my fault, no, but again, it's important. Unit is important to realize at some point that, like, just, you need to blame yourself sometimes, like you need to take, oh, responsibility for your own actions.

Speaker 2: 1:02:25

You've just opened up a whole can of worms there oh but in a good way, right, because I actually read. I don't, in fact, I will say I read a life-changing book for me called extreme ownership, from Jocko Welling and left Babin, and I've been in like Junior management for some time now and it changed overnight my, my management style, my leadership style and my own, how I conduct my myself personally, because the moment I started taking ownership and personal responsibility for all of my actions and stopped blaming others, suddenly that's when things started to change. And Instead of trying to fix the world, how about I just try and fix myself first? And that's not to say I'm a broken person or something. I don't think anyone is broken. I think what I'm trying to get at is is that I think it's so easy to offload your problems and offload the negatives in your life to Just the vague as society's fault or the government's fault or something. But like, how often do we stop, look ourselves in the mirror and go what can I take control of? What can I take charge of here and now? We can take charge of your attitude, you can take charge of your fitness, you can take charge of your diet. You can take charge of your personal and professional relationships. There's so much that's within our control that will make our lives better. And then you know, and Help those within our sphere of influence. So it's so interesting that, as 18 year old and getting into Getting into the world of adulting, that You've grasped this concept so early, like for me, it took me, like I say, I'm 28 now and it's only in the past sort of six months a year that I've I've really grasped it, the bull by the horns. I've always at the back of my mind had this yeah, I need to take personal responsibility for this, and sometimes I did and sometimes I didn't. I was very inconsistent and now, now in my late 20s, I have, I accept, extreme ownership, as it's called, over every domain of my life, and if something's not going right it's probably because I didn't show up to my maximum potential here and there. But For your generation, do you feel like a lot of people don't accept personal responsibility? Do you feel like a lot, do you? Or do you feel like it's somewhere in between?

Speaker 3: 1:04:48

Oh, people die accept responsibility enough. Just look at the government.

Speaker 2: 1:04:54

Are you on dropping truth bombs like that?

Speaker 3: 1:04:58

No, I think people need to learn that it's okay to accept Responsibility, like, although it's not always going to be good, yeah, you might have done something wrong, but it's still important, because it's all about learning a lesson, isn't it? And like, even if you did do that thing that was wrong, if you accept responsibility from it and that helps you move forward, it will turn you into a better, more decent human. Oh and like, yeah and like, I don't want to be mates with a decent human, like there's another segment for the podcast. So yeah, but taking, taking ownership in every case. Like you can't, you can't see the world clearly if your glasses as much can you like man, you're just dropping quotes here all day like Is your like family full of stokes and like why?

Speaker 2: 1:05:47

spoke like what's? Where is that? Where's all the the meeting diamonds, the memo of like? There's like a wise folk meeting.

Speaker 3: 1:05:58

It's all the religious studies lesson there you go. There you go, folks. Let's let's get everyone study a level philosophy.

Speaker 2: 1:06:04

Yeah, everyone study a level philosophy, religion, politics and we'll get well soon learned compromise with each other, because anyway, that's like no, I'm not gonna beat the politics horse any more than they have to, but, like you know, politics is the art of compromise and I feel like that's True in a lot of life. Life is about compromise. Like you know, off the top of my head I can't think of anything, but I'm sure I feel very strongly about something and you feel very strong about something. I'm sure if we like talked forever, we would find something we were opposing views on. But the point is is that we can compromise that and then still, you know, have civil conversation and then probably go for a pint afterwards and laugh. You know, what I mean. So I think I feel like that's such an important one as well. Learning to compromise is probably a pretty good adult skill, instead of just drawing your line and because what? Do you like it or not? This is something I realized. Well, there's probably there is elements of truth on both sides, like it's not, like one side is 100% wrong and the other is it's a hundred percent right. Well, sorry, I'll redact that, stephen. There's a couple of looney tunes out there in the world today and their views are important and they are 100% wrong. But let's just the grad the vast majority of decent people who hold slightly different politics to you or Slightly different views or whatever. There's probably truth on both sides and you could probably learn something from them as well. You know, I mean like, for example, I. I think it's a lot better in Northern Ireland, but I feel like my generation and your generation who live in Northern Ireland can see that both sides actually there's a benefit to compromising and learning from each other, whereas the old guard are just like. No. Shall we discuss? Shall we like make the world a better place for the people of North? No, my way or the whole way. Exactly, mate, exactly. And the only other question. In fact, here's a question for you. I've just thought off the top of my head. I feel like you Are in a good place to answer it. What advice do you have for Everyone, your age group, like I know obviously that somewhat similar experiences, but you have a very unique Experience like no one else has lived your life. No one else has had your particular experiences. What Advice do you have for your, your fellow generation people going through everything you're going through now? Do you think would help find yourself Right? Okay, define a little bit more if you don't mind.

Speaker 3: 1:08:38

Okay, so you Find yourself, know who you are. Because my age group, we're at a point in our lives where we sort of question everything about ourselves. We don't know who we are, we don't know what we believe, we don't know what we think. I think it's important and it's hugely beneficial to learn about yourself. Learn what you like, learn what you don't like, learn who you like and who you don't like. It's like it's a lot of likes. No, but that is very true yeah no, but to find yourself, because it's like what I said earlier you can't see the world if your glasses are smudged. Yeah, 100% I think. If you find yourself, your glasses become clearer. Yeah, because once you know what you want in life, you can see everything. With a bit more hindsight, you can see everything, yeah, and you can see what you need to be able to grab it and make what you want of life.

Speaker 2: 1:09:39

Yeah, I really like that and it's so interesting that you say that in the. If you wanted to quote unquote, find yourself. I think, personally, travel is the best way to do that If you can't travel Like I have met so many weird, wonderful, interesting people who I otherwise would not have met and they have helped form, in some capacity, who I am today and helped smash some ignorance, as I may have had, and helped smash some preconceived notions I may have had, and I'm a more educated and open minded individual, for I firmly believe that all ignorance and biases could be smashed if everyone just traveled and met people from different cultures, like for probably 85, 90% of the entire human race. We all want the same thing and we want to increase the standard of living, you know, live a life with you know, liberty, the pursuit of happiness, and we want to leave the world a better place for our descendants. I think we're all pretty unified, regardless of your personal beliefs or you know whatever. We all have the same goal. We just have slightly different ways of getting there. We believe is a better way of getting there, and so, yeah, I think that's really important. I like that answer. Another question I would have is for the people who are older than you, so, for example, my generation, or even say your parents generation. What do you wish they understood about your generation? What do you like? For a moment, they stopped talking and they just want to. They're just going to listen. You know, what do you have to say to them? Say like this is what you need to understand about our generation. This is what you need to. This is what you need to understand where we are coming from.

Speaker 3: 1:11:25

Realize that life is different. My parents, my grandparents lived a completely different life. So what we live now, not because we're different people, because, but because the world is completely different yeah, 100%. Like we're both sat here now with phones in our hand. Yeah. They wouldn't have been, my parents wouldn't have been. No. Like we're sat here using like all of the high tech recording stuff that they wouldn't have been. And it's just that, like as niche as that is, the world is different. The world has evolved, like, like what we were saying with mental health. Mental health is so much more of a bigger problem now than it was 50 years ago, 20 years ago, because the world has evolved. And I think people sometimes need to realize, although they said, oh, I never went through this in my day, I never struggled like this back when I was young. Yeah. That's exactly the point. Yeah, Because every every life is different and the world has changed. And, yeah, I think they just need to realize sometimes that the struggles that we go through now, a lot of them they wouldn't have gone through. Yeah. Because of how much the world is changing, and I dare say it'll be the same when we're all older and we've got children. Yeah. And our children come to us with troubles and we go. Well, we never. We never had that problem when we were younger. And, like I said, that's the point, the world's ever evolving. Yeah and so and that, and if the world evolves, so the good things, so the bad things, everything evolves with it, 100%, because we're all in the same world.

Speaker 2: 1:13:04

It's so interesting because I feel like this, this, this is something that that every generation is faced. So, for example, I remember seeing a meme and it was if you think that millennials or Gen Z are getting an awful lot of shit, don't worry. 3000 years ago people were still getting it, and it was a quote from, I believe, socrates, and he was talking about the generation, the kids after him, and he was like these, this generation, are idle in mind indeed, and you know, are I'm just generic complaints, and it seems to be every generation, take a little bit of a dump on the next one, but it's, I think, what's really important. I think what is good about our generation is that when we do have kids, I think we'll be a lot more empathetic and understanding. And that's not to say our parents weren't like I know my parents loved me the best, your parents love you the best and always you know they're for you and that kind of thing. But it's a case of I feel like you are right. Every generation faces very unique struggles, but as long as you've got that support system within the family, okay, I genuinely do not know what you're going through. I'd never went through this struggle, but I'm here to support you in whatever way I can. I feel like that's, that's probably the best way.

Speaker 3: 1:14:19

Yeah, so we're bringing it back to tolerance? Yeah, 100%. I don't know what you're going through, but I'll do everything to help you get through it.

Speaker 2: 1:14:26

Yeah that sort of thing, yeah, yeah 100%, man, and with all good things must come to an end. We're coming to the near the end of the show, unfortunately, but I do have one final question for you, and what is a question that you have never been asked? This can be funny, serious, it's whatever you want, okay.

Speaker 3: 1:14:48

So I was thinking about this, not knowing that we'd go down a political rabbit hole, yeah, so the question I've never been asked was if you were Prime Minister, what's the first thing you do?

Speaker 2: 1:15:04

Oh, please tell me you're going to answer that.

Speaker 3: 1:15:13

We haven't talked about it much, but I'd set the climate agenda. I'd make sure that Britain was carbon neutral within six months. Six months, Six months it can be done.

Speaker 2: 1:15:29

Oh, I'm very interested. Well, we don't have the time, but I would definitely be very keen to have you back on us Well look at last week, boris Johnson increased national insurance in a day.

Speaker 3: 1:15:41

Yeah, that's true, he wants more tax. He did it in a day. We want carbon neutrality. We can do it. Yeah, like it's like we could do it tomorrow if we wanted to. But the problem is, it's all just capitalism and it's all just the capitalist culture that needs to change. And because our country, the whole world, well, the Western world is so ingrained into that, I think it's that and it's the big corporations that prevent things from happening like that. Yeah, it's still the fact the bottom line. Yeah, because I think all of the capitalists would hate me. But I believe it's not a political issue, it's a humanitarian issue that needs to be addressed. It doesn't matter what the cost is, because, well, do we want a home to live in or not?

Speaker 2: 1:16:32

Yeah, that's really interesting. Capitalism can't thrive without people and if there's no people well you screw your door, you don't have to worry about your bottom line.

Speaker 3: 1:16:44

Yeah, exactly, but yeah, no, that's what I'd do.

Speaker 2: 1:16:47

Yeah, that's really wholesome as well, because I like the fact that you're thinking about the world in general and, like you know, one of the best quotes I ever heard was you know, the intention is not to live forever, it's to create something that will, and if you can create a permanent society where you know the generations to come after us can have a higher quality of life than we did. You know what I mean. You're on to your own day or one or there, and in another way, one of the best quotes it's probably one of my all time favorite quotes was that you know a society grows great when old men plant trees and who shade. They know they will never sit. You know you are thinking about something that doesn't immediately benefit you, but it is going to benefit your descendants or people you'll never meet. So I really like that. That was a really wholesome answer. I like that, thank you. Probably pissed off a couple of capitalists, but hey, Probably. But then again, if they're decent capitalists, they'll go. There's a lot of money being made from going green.

Speaker 3: 1:17:41

Oh, yeah, exactly, there you go.

Speaker 2: 1:17:42

Yeah, this has been an absolutely phenomenal chat, jack, and I just want to thank you so much for coming on the show and I learned a lot in this conversation and I hope that you did. Yeah, definitely, yeah, well, maybe even get you back on maybe in the next quarter or sometime down the line to discuss a few other things, because I feel like we only sort of just brush the surface with a lot of topics there, and something I would actually like to talk about in the future is bar etiquette. Oh, yes, because when you're 18, like you said, you want to go clubbing and all that kind of thing and you nobody teaches you what correct bar etiquette is. No, you just kind of like stand at the bar and look awkwardly at the bartender, like, serve me, serve me, who's next? Suddenly, everyone is next. Exactly, there's correct etiquette to be yes, yeah, there is so, and I feel like you would be in a well positioned place to talk about that. Even if that's even a short 15, 30 minute episode. They equip people with you know, correct skills to go in there and be a decent human being. This has been the overlapping theme of the show, or this particular episode be a decent human being so. Once again, jack, thank you so much for coming on. Thanks for having me. Yeah, it's been a great episode.

Speaker 3: 1:18:51

Yeah, I really enjoyed it, Thank you.

Speaker 2: 1:18:53

Yeah, sorry, not bad for a first podcast episode is it Pretty good and definitely the most unique recording environment I've ever done a podcast.

Speaker 3: 1:19:01

And this used to be a record shop. Oh really, yeah, we used to have a record shop up here, fair enough, but yeah, they've moved now, so this is just a remnant, sort of.

Speaker 2: 1:19:10

Well, it's now a podcast. Temporary podcast studio. Oh yeah exactly. And a big shout out again to Katie's as well for facilitating this podcast. Do check it out if you are in the Gosport area Fantastic vibe, fantastic staff and you'll have a good time. But once again, jack, thank you so much for coming on the show. Yeah, thank you. There you have it, folks. That was today's chat with Jack Forbes from the band Avenue Signed. I hope you enjoyed today's episode and, if you did, please do consider subscribing to the podcast on your preferred streaming service, and please do leave a five star rating and review on Apple. That really helps the podcast. If you would like to stay up to date with more content from the Curious Ulsterman, please do subscribe to the various social media channels. We are on Instagram, facebook, twitter and TikTok all at the Curious Ulsterman. You can also check out our website at wwwthecurious Ulstermancom. Ulsterman spelled U? L S T E R M? A? N, and if you tuned in for the first time today, folks, thank you so much. I really appreciate that If you're a repeat listener. Once again, thank you so much, really appreciate you, especially the folks in Colorado, south Korea, birmingham and London. But that's all from me, folks. I hope you have a great day and I'll hopefully see you on next week's episode, but until then, folks, all the best. Bye for now.