Nature Therapy: A Bushcraft Expert's Guide to Inner Peace

Hello everyone and welcome back to the Curious Ulsterman podcast. The podcast is designed to equip you with the tools and wisdom you need to thrive as an adult. I am your host, johnny aka the Curious Ulsterman, and today I am joined by my good friend John Bow of Wildway Bushcraft. In today's episode we discuss how bushcraft and getting into the wilds in nature can benefit you physically, emotionally and mentally, as well as the transferable skills that you can acquire and apply in the workplace. But without further delay, folks, here is today's episode into the wild. Hi, john, welcome back to the show.

Johnny, nice to see you again, buddy.

Yeah, 100%. This is your third appearance on the show as well, and I know the audience have loved your two previous episodes. They've done very well in the downloads and, as we were discussing before, my co-host loved that one quote from your. I think it was your second episode don't let perfect be the enemy of good.

Yeah, yeah. No, it's cool to be back man. It's really cool, it's really good. I'm super glad that it's all going for you. That's great.

Yeah, 100%, and, with any luck this year, work permit and I 'll be on some of your courses again and back in the woods. But today's discussion is well the whole topic of getting out into the woods, getting out into the wild. Obviously, given the current state of the world in that with COVID, I'm hoping we're starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel now, but for the past couple of years people have been stuck inside watching tech talk, youtube, all them kinds of things and sort of almost dreaming they could be outside enjoying the wilds and the woods and stuff, and what you said just before. We started recording about people living vicariously through YouTube and tech talk. You know, perhaps that can inspire people to do things, but it's also not a good way to do things. So the first sort of question I want to ask you is what is bushcraft? Now, I know you've answered this question before, but we've had a bit of a surgeon audience so for some of them they may not have heard your previous episode. So what is bushcraft and, in your opinion, how can that help us become more well rounded people in every aspect of our life, both physically, emotionally, mentally?

That's a mega question, Right, let's break it down. So what is bushcraft? So basically, basically, bushcraft is a set of skills and a knowledge set that allows you to thrive in an outdoor environment. Be it, you know, woodland is predominantly where I work out of, but woodlands, rivers, mountains, deserts, it's all you know. It's all encompassing about knowing, about learning about nature, what natural resources are out there, what you can do to make yourself comfortable and really enjoy the outdoors. It's completely different from survival, where it's all gone horribly wrong and you need to just get out of. Get out of Dodger or someone needs to rescue. It's going to these places with the mindset of being out there for a long time. Yeah, that would probably. That's probably the easiest way of describing what bushcraft is, but it's such a huge subject it's like you can go down a massive rabbit hole on what is bushcraft and there's lots of people with various different opinions. But essentially, that's what mining is. It's a set of skills and knowledge that allows you to enjoy the natural world to a more greater depth.

That's great. So because I'm not that much educated in it, would that be closer to say something like maybe Ray Mears rather than Bear Grills, or have I got that potentially?

Yeah, well, that's, yeah, that's, yeah. You could take those two characters like Ray Mears, your sort of archetypal bushcraft TV celebrity, as it were, that you see in mixing with these indigenous tribes, you see in lighting fire by friction and eating well and making furniture in the woods and candles and all sorts of stuff, and he's very comfortable out there and he can stay out there for a long time and it's all about the journey and living alongside nature. And then the Bear Grills. If you take Bear Grills as the extreme survivalist type person running down slate quarries and drinking his own urine and living in camel sleeper. Yeah, I'm not a fan of Bear Grills per se. It's just, you know it's the other end of the spectrum, you know it's the other end of the. It's the other end of it's complete opposite, pro-opposite. You know, like to Ray Mears, bear Grills thing.

Yeah. So, as you said, bushcraft is such a complex, nuanced topic, but at the polar end of the skills you've got Ray Mears Love and Life in the Woods using his skills, as you say, to survive there long term. I say survive more like thrive, thrive long term. Whereas Bear Grills is. You've landed in the woods and you need to survive. That's the polar end of that spectrum, but in between is a wealth of knowledge that people can benefit from, so to speak.

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah, for sure. I think it's good as well to talk about getting into the woods, because I feel that I said getting into the woods, let's open it up, let's get it just getting into nature, because we've a global audience, like I've got people inside of Korea, america and America's got diverse ecosystems as well, obviously Europe, so we'll use the generic term outdoors. But obviously my experience and obviously your wealth of experience is in the woods. I think a lot of people go oh, I want to get into nature. I see it on TikTok, I see it on YouTube and I'm sick of living in this concrete jungle, I'm sick of living in the same four walls of my house and I want to get out there and enjoy it. But weirdly, some people don't know how to start that. I think they can see this as oh, I'm going to go to the woods, what do I do? They pull up to you like a national park or something, or they get out of their car and they go. They walk through the woods and like, okay, what am I supposed to do now? For me, personally, I have lucky enough that I know just to be present in the moment, just to enjoy the sights, the signs, that kind of thing. But I feel like in this age, people feel like they need to be productive 24 seven, and that includes being in the woods. Oh, I've got to be doing something productive and I've got to be getting something from this. Or what's your advice for people who, let's just say, they never have been in the woods? And I can say that because I had a good friend of mine the first time we went to Wales. He had never seen a sheep proper time.

Never seen a sheep.

So yeah, unreal, like proper concrete jungle. He's never. He had never seen a sheep. So, for people who who live in the cities and want to start getting an appreciation of nature, where would you suggest they start? And when they are in the whatever ecosystem they are in, what would you recommend they do, so to speak?

Oh, that's the beauty of it, there is. You know, if you're in the, if you've managed to get into the woods already and you're like, oh, what do I do? The whole point of being in nature, in wild places, is that generally there is, you don't need to do anything, you're already there, so you know it's. There's an old. I don't know if I've told you about it, but I've told you about the art of doing nothing. There's a Victorian explorer and he documented this indigenous tribe in the jungle all right back in the sort of late 1800s. And he was late 1800s, early 1900s, whenever Queen Victoria was around. History's not the strong word, but he was documenting this tribe and he was just like man, the men of the tribe, they're just, you know, they're really lazy. He started his documentaries like they're really lazy, they don't do anything. They go out, they hunt, they come back, they sit around the fire and they don't do anything. They're not productive, they're not, they're not, they're just wasting time. They could be doing so much more. And and he carried on studying them for months and it wasn't till the to the end of his sort of time with them that he dawned on him that actually these people are perfect at the art of doing nothing. So they if you take that to a modern thing, I mean they they're quite happy being bored. If there's nothing to do, then they're quite happy living in the moment and just not doing something. You know, if nothing he's doing, then why bother running around like lunatics? It's like the, the, the analogy of the fisherman and the businessman. Have you heard?

that one. I have heard it, but I'd be willing to hear it again if you have.

Yeah, so as a businessman goes on holiday and he stumbles across little fisherman and then he's like that's, that's conversation. What's what's your catch been like today? He's like I've caught four fish. And now I'm going back to my family and he's like, but it's only 10 o'clock in the morning. He's like, yeah, but I've caught four fish. He's like you're really lazy. You should be. You know, you should be catching 10 fish and then selling six down the market, and then you could buy a boat, and then you buy a fleet of boats and then you could do this, and then by the time you're 60, you could retire. And then he's like yeah, and then what would I do? He's like well, then you could spend the morning fishing and then go home and spend it with your family.

So oh I love that story.

The beauty of being in the woods or in the wild places is that you get that disconnect from the hustle and bustle of the nine to five concrete jungle. So people that, yeah, if you're in the woods and there's, what do I do now? That's the point, it's to do nothing, it's to just enjoy it and enjoy it. Go and look at stuff, yeah.

I love that. Can I, can I just say that I can say with 100% certainty that the top in the top five moments of my life, 100% has been at. Two of them have been on your canoe expeditions, when we've been just like the first one would be. I was when we were doing the the Great Glen. It was the Great Glen.

Yeah, the first one.

I went on and it wasn't until day three. Weirdly enough, I would almost describe it as like a decompression from civilization and like we were. I think it was the day before we got into Loch Ness. I remember just for some reason I had pulled slightly ahead of the main group and I was by myself. There was no one around me for like at least you know, 200 meters or whatever, and it was just deafening silence and you were just totally alone in the environment and it was this weird I don't know how to describe it it was. It was this weird stress relief. It was this weird like resonance with nature, almost it just it was such a calming effect that you know it's. It's incredibly hard to describe, but I'm sure you experience it all the time. You know you hustle and bustle of life and as soon as you get into the woods you're just in your element. There's just that, that overwhelming calmness, appreciation for nature, living in the moment. It's. It's such a surreal experience and the first time I experienced it I was like whoa, like, so this is how your ancestors lived.

Yeah, and that's, that's yeah. Well, firstly, it's very humbling to hear that two of your best life experiences so far have been on a course with me. Yeah, but that's the point. This is how our ancestors lived. I mean, we've lived modern humans, say. The last 300 years have been like this. Maybe not to this sort of extent, but, you know, building up to this. This is a speck of time really on the on the human timeline, where this is what we live is not how we are evolved to live. You know, we're not evolved to be, to be looking at bone screens and having information bombarded left, right and center and I'm not a Luddite, I mean, I use technology all the time, but it's, it's not how we were designed to live. So, going back to a woodland and just sat around a campfire the amount of times that people say to me oh, there's something like primeval about looking, staring, sitting around as a group around the campfire and staring into a campfire it does. There is something primeval. I can't put my. I call it caveman TV. It's just like pretty, pretty flames. There is something about a small group of people, um, sat around and sharing an experience in in nature. That really brings people together and and that's part of the beauty of it for me is that you can go into the woods and completely, or into the wild by the rivers, you know, whatever the mountain and really really just relax and disconnect from the modern hustle and bustle. And I think that I think that that's something that I shout about all the time with, certainly for mental health issues and stuff like that, and that's what I think is it's so important to do. It's so important, it's it's almost well, it is for me, it's a necessity, but it's in. Yeah, man, I'd love to drag people out and they look experienced this, but it's really something you have to open yourself up to without sounding a bit a bit like religious. Welcome the woods into your life, man. Yeah, it's like. Yeah, I feel like I'm waffling a bit, but I'm trying to just find the right words, trying to find the right words to describe it it's if you've got into the woods, you're already there, man, and if you can't access woodland I mean, I was in London a little while ago and there are green spaces in London, or even in your back garden there are there are plants that you can go into your back garden and look at nature, even if it's some, you know, even if it's a bumblebee flying around, or you know way ants work and move, and you can, you can just experience that tiny little bit and then, hopefully, that leads on, and leads on, and leads on. Not to mention that there's free food in your garden, yeah, which is always good, yeah.

And the subject of food, two things that makes you do John's foraging course that he does, that's very good and also my. We were actually talking about you yesterday after we finished our episode, me and Nathan. He said I'm talking to John tomorrow. He says, oh, yeah, he's a great guy. I said have you got any questions for me? He says yeah, I'd love to know about some foraging. And I was like, yeah, definitely he's the man for it. So we'll definitely have to discuss that at some point or another. Yeah, yeah. But I think you hit the nail in the head that you know you don't have to go to a great national park to experience the wild, even going out to your back garden, taking your shoes off and just walking in some grass. It's not perfect, but it's. It's different, isn't it? Yeah, and you know, if you know what you're doing and you're, you're, you know, with a good common sense and and and extremely good knowledge. Yes, there are edibles in your garden, you in the woods, and I mean, I've remembered. The one of my strangest life experiences was the first time you showed our little group in the middle of the Scottish Islands how to like find pig nut. Oh, yeah, and then it's and then it shoots off randomly like a 90 degree angle and I remember I remember being, exactly as you said, sat around a campfire in the middle of the Scottish Highlands where a bunch of people I barely knew, but after two days I felt like I'd known them forever and we're sat around eating pig nut fresh from the ground around.

Yeah.

It's just, it's a real experience.

So yeah, it is, one is and it and that's. You know you make a really good point in that you don't have to go to these. You know wilderness, massive wilderness areas, they're amazing. You know what I mean, If you can do it. Yeah, and it's something I get frustrated with, you know, working out of UK woodlands is that we don't have like these vast amounts of areas where you can disappear for days and not see any sort of sign of human interaction with nature. And I'm constantly like banging on to my wife saying, oh, I want to get a Canada and like literally just get lost. It's not, it shouldn't be a barrier. There are still really, really cool pockets of the UK to go and visit and, like you say, you've got a global audience now, so there'll be really cool pockets of other countries. You know that even in built up cities and stuff like that, there'll be these little pockets. And you, just the best advice I would give would be not to get overwhelmed. It would be not to go on internet forums that talk about Bushcraft, Because there's so many people who go down so many nuances and people have their own opinions. I would literally pick up a couple of books and go do it old school like, without sounding like a I'm 40 in May, without sounding like a middle-aged man, or read, read, I would. You know. I would pick up a couple of books about the subject and find your own way, find your own path and find what interests you about the outdoors and that's how I would say, to get into it.

On the subject of books, you and your friend did write a book actually not, I think about it. Was it Bushcraft of the Family or something?

Yeah, yeah it was Bushcraft of the Family Guide it's going to. It's got out print now.

I should open it on Kindle at least.

Oh yeah, it's on Kindle. Oh good, good, good, it's on Kindle. And that, you know, that's like. That's just a sign of the modern times is that there's some. We wrote this book. They sold as many copies as they. They deemed that they needed to sell to make their money back, and then they were like right, next thing. And so it's. But you know, that's just how publishers make money, man.

It's just like if people were still buying it, it'd still be on sales, wouldn't it and personally, I think I must have got one of the last copies, because I do have a physical copy of it. Yeah, nice.

That's great. I think you can buy that a physical copy for 150 quid on Amazon or something like that. Between you and me, I probably wouldn't buy it. No, I have my own book in the script. Yeah, man, I really enjoy reading the old, old books, like there's some really really old books written at the turn of the century, 19th century, yeah, and I've, like you know, they were called pioneers exploring America and all that sort of stuff. And Canada kept heart is one I really enjoy reading the generate. Younger generations might read it and be absolutely disgusted at the language that's used, but it's, it was written of a sign of its times. So just take that and take that into account. But yeah, no, that would be my go. Yeah, really dive into the history of it. But I feel like I've gone off tangent, which is not unusual for me.

No, not at all, I think, if you can give it, because there's how to put a politely strange people in every sector of life and every hobby and every you know subject. I think bushcraft is no exception. You can end up getting your purists and you can get your people who. I did a nuance. But for the average Joe let's say university student, and you're stuck, you've just smashed in, you know 80 hours of a week between work, revision, and you're getting burned out. And you're scrolling through tech talk and you just happen to see all these people live in their best lives, going through the woods, beach, all this kind of thing. Well, I want some of that, and you've explained very well how to get into it, how to like even you don't need to. You don't need to go to a huge national park. Even your university campus is bound to have some sort of greenery that you can enjoy and things like that. But could you maybe go over some of the benefits you know physically, mentally and emotionally that people can expect or likely expect when they even get, when they start to get into nature, because I feel like that's really important to discuss. As you say before, it's, it's primal to get as high our ancestors lived and we haven't, thankfully, evolved out of that yet. So people do, naturally, are drawn to nature.

Yeah, yeah, first and foremost, is that you use the. You know, you've, you've smashed out all this time. You were taking this university person and you've watched Instagram or TikTok and you decided that you see all these people live in their best life. I think it's first and fundamentally that for people to know that that 30 seconds is, or whatever however long the video is is is massively enhanced. He's not real. Yeah, that's the first thing. That's the first thing to you know, I've got an 11 year old son now and that's massively open my eyes and that is it. That's not real life and that's not what they are doing. I was driving through Scotland, the Glencove area absolutely gorgeous and there's three like crags called the three sisters. Right, they're absolutely beautiful, they're all covered in greenery, is waterfalls falling down them and there's a viewing spot and in that viewing spot was a queue All right, a massive queue, maybe like 30, 40 people and lots of girls, very, very pretty girls in leggings doing like star jumps and someone taking an Instagram photo and then they were getting back in their cars and moving on. They're not. You really need to take what you see on social media with a pinch of salt, because there's what people portray and there's what people do, all right, and I think that's really, really important these days in that you don't judge yourself by people's 32nd Facebook clips with filters and Instagram models, and you know. I just think that's important to say I might sound like a really, really old, grumpy man.

I just you know, I totally in total agreement with you, John, total agreement.

I mean, and it's I mean even I suffer with it sometimes to look at some, like you know, children, their sex positions, and if you're like 30 year old, out there at the top of that mountain in the middle of nowhere, that's amazing. But it's, you know, it's just a brief snap and it might not even be real. It might be photoshop, it might not be real. So that's that's what I would say. Sorry, man.

No, no, no, 100% agree. And something that a lot of people will not show is they'll not show the delayed flights, you know getting stopped at customs. They'll not show the car breaking down on the way to the to getting the foot was shit. They'll not show, you know, the couple, the happy couple, smiling in the photograph, arguing for all day before because they're tired, and you know it's it's. It's the only showing the good side and not the complex nuances of, say, full time travel or even just even just a day out in the woods. So you know you hit the nail in the head, john, 100%.

Yeah. So what? What so? Yeah. So going back to your hypothetical student or young person, I mean, I'm not interested in that kind of that. What I would say is that if you can get yourself to somewhere, that is, let's take a woodland environment and you can maybe fill up like a flask or thermal mug of tea or something and just a hot drink and someone to sit on be it a jacket or a chair or something and just go and sit underneath a tree for half an hour and be completely still. It might feel like the most alien thing possible for you to do after busting a gut for eight hours a week, but you will be blown away by what you see. To start with, you'll be blown away by how close the small bits of nature come to you and the first thing you'll probably see is small robins and birds and stuff like that. That would be my life. That's the first step. Go and do that. You need to learn how to slow down would be the most important thing. You need to learn how to slow down and ground yourself and not be running around at a million miles an hour, because that's not what we were designed to do run around at a million miles an hour. I forgot on the rest of the question.

No, that's all right. It actually lines up perfectly for the question, because learning to slow down and to be in that moment, I think, is the foundations of wellness. But the question was what are the physical, emotional and mental benefits? I don't think you can explore them and get the full potential from them until you get out of the quote-unquote rat race of whatever it is you're doing like, whether that be studying for university or your job or whatever. Learning to slow down would be probably the foundational point, wouldn't it? Then you can get the physical, mental and emotional benefits, which? What do you think they are?

First of all, the physical benefits of being in wild places and doing exercise. The physical benefits, obviously chemical releases of serotonin and all those good stuff that gives us that feeling of well-being, getting the blood pumping and the heart going of doing any physical exercises is great, but out in nature you get that awe-inspiring view of the views and the fresh air. It gives your head a break, it gives you time to physically relax and gives you some thinking space. One thing I found that was really scary for me was that actually it takes a lot of courage to be on your own and quiet even for an hour, because you're left with nowhere. It's just you and your thoughts. You're left with nowhere to hide. That can be quite a big challenge for people and there's just you and your thoughts. You literally have nowhere to hide. That, I say, would be one of the benefits, hugely mentally, is that it gives you time to address some of your hang-ups, to think about your goals and how, whether you're acting for other people, are you actually on the right path for yourself? It gives you time to be honest with yourself and that can sometimes be quite a scary thing, I think, for people to realise that actually they've joined this university course because their dad always wanted them to be a doctor, or they feel that society wants them to do this, and actually they would rather be doing something that was more self-fulfilling as opposed to earning X amount of money a year because, yeah, you need a certain amount of money to live. I'm not disputing that, but sometimes it does more harm than good. Chase, working, living for somebody else does that make?

sense, 100%. I'm feeling really convicted with that at the minute because for me, if money wasn't an object, I would be going on personally, my own ambitions. I'd be going on expeditions. I don't know what I'm doing, but I would be trying to learn Bushcraft on its fullest. I'd be trying to. It's a big world out there and I'd love to see it all physically impossible to do. But you're right, you do have to make a certain amount of money to live and with, hopefully, my ambitions, I would make a modest amount of money that I can go and do the things I want to do and live life on my terms. But 100% agree with everything you said and that effect that you talked about, about being in the woods or being in the wild and you're alone with your thoughts. That's probably one of the biggest things that affected me as well in my maturity as a person. So I think when I first went on one of your canoe expeditions, I think I was about 24, 25 and that's a weird time for an adult like quote unquote your quarter life crisis as it's now being. Is that right? Is that a thing? That's a new thing now.

Pardon, how sad is that? Yeah, it is how sad is that that's the society where we've got to 25 and they're like right, if you live to 100, you're a quarter way through your life. You need to have a crisis now.

Yeah, it's like, oh, have I got the enough safe dot for the house yet? Am I reaching my goals? Am I being a bum? Should I be in a serious relationship by now? All these things, it's all these like societal expectations. And then obviously no sooner are you over your quarter life crisis and you're into your midlife crisis. Well, why do we have to have a crisis at all? Why not just live life on our terms as best we can? But that all came to a head when I was in that canoe by myself. I remember my first ever time on a canoe, expad, and you're like right, johnny, so one of the guys doesn't turn them up, do you mind being in a canoe by yourself? And I was like, okay, and, having never set foot in a canoe, I'm paddling in that little stream of Neptune Stereochis in four William, and I'm going in circles. I could just see you, hand on face. Oh no it's going to be a long five days, but that was a blessing in disguise because, like as we mentioned previously, when I was by myself in that glen, at least for like a good 20 minutes, talking to no one, alone in the wild, and I suddenly realized, wow, like you know, you do, you cannot help but have some form of reflection, some form of you know. How the hell did I get to this point in my life? What am I doing? Who am I? What are my values? And you, suddenly, suddenly you get a lot of clarity with what really matters in life, and it's not the paycheck, it's not your social status, it's not the car you drive, it's am I happy? Am I? Am I living life to my values? Am I living?

life yeah.

Yeah, Am I living life when I'm here to? I'm going to not, you know, regret it and that kind of thing.

So you're on this side to put your nose right. You're on this planet, man, for such a brief snort of time, like say, let's say, 80 years, 100 years, if you're lucky. It's like if, if you're not happy, then doing what you're doing, then for God's sake, change it, man. Yeah, because you've, there's so much more to life than you if you're not happy. What a sad, what a sad, sad state of affairs that you're living your life and you're not enjoying it. Yeah, yeah. We all have ups and downs and we have bereavements and things don't go our way and you know you can't be euphoric and happy all the time. No one's, no one's expecting you to do that. But if you're having more bad days and good, then I would just I would urge you as a, as someone that's got is in the prime of their, their sort of time 25, you know, young people, 18 to sort of 25 or whatever. You just change my. Do something, really really ground yourself, really really think about what makes you happy and and aim for that or work towards that. I mean, I'm not, I'm not saying you should give everything up and, you know, make a change overnight if you're not in the situation to do it. Be pragmatic and practical about it, of course. But yeah, I would just urge people someone that is turning 40 in a few months time for God's sake, don't, don't live your life unhappy.

Bloody hell. Yeah, that's a hell of a bit of advice right there. I may also say you look like you're in your late 20s rather than turning 40, so fair for you.

John, it's just filters man. It's the guy who does it.

Thank you very much. I'll maybe acquire some of them, filters for when I need them, maybe look good in the instant light. My little shoddy web camera on my computer Not 100%. I think that something I've been liking to do on these episodes is to give actionable steps to the audience. I think by accident we may have even got our first actionable step for the audience. If you would agree that, maybe sit down like if you've got a busy schedule I know it'll be hard, but find maybe 30 minutes to even sit in the woods, sit in some sort of nature, and even write down or journal or reflect and think what actually makes you happy. Why are you doing the thing you're doing? Why are you on this course of action? Even maybe, if you asked me to list off maybe the top four or five experiences of my life, I could probably rhyme it off in about 30 seconds, because I have done that, I have sat down and I have dialed in what I like, what makes me happy, what I'd love to do if money wasn't an object, if you don't know. A good question I like to ask people that stumps them, which is quite sad, is if money was no object, what would you do they sort of look a bit what? Oh? I've never actually thought about that. They never actually thought, yeah, what do I actually like to do? They've gotten maybe between the ages of 18 and 25, nearly 30, whatever, actually, no, well, increase the age range, let's say up to 50, 60. They've never actually sat down and thought, yeah, what do I actually like to do? If money was no object, what would I do? I think you're in the extremely fortunate position that you get to do what you love every day, and not only that, you get to teach people it as well and spread that knowledge.

It's funny, yeah, yeah, because if money was no object, I would still be doing this.

Yeah, but there you go. You're probably a single digit percentage of people who are doing that and kudos to you.

Yeah, and I think it's important that people know that, from my point of view, a lot of this has been luck. I've managed to do some time in the mob and I've got a military and I got injured and I got an income that sustains me, so me and my family. So I think a lot of it is. I only managed to get hold of some woodland because I had cancer and I had insurance, so a lot of it has been luck. Please don't you know I'm not, but yeah, I am fortunate that even if I was minted multi-millionaire, I won a lot of Euro millions on Friday, but I'd still be doing this. So so go on, yeah. So I think, yeah, I am fortunate, I am lucky, but it's not unobtainable for people.

Yeah, I like that as well. I think it's really important to bring that into the conversation, that, while you personally have made a lot of good choices that have resulted in the rewards that you now enjoy, yes, like every situation, there's a certain amount of luck, that uncertainty is involved. You know it's so interesting. We were having this conversation and work the other day and we were describing how, you know, if we did win the lottery, what would we do? And my honest answer is, at my current age and circumstances, it would be. I would love to just put it away and some sort of investment thing, live off interest. I wouldn't. I don't want a flashy car, I don't want a big house, I don't want any of that. I just want to go off and do weird and obscure jobs. So, like something I've always wanted, something I've always wanted to do and I don't know why is at least experience. Once you know that, do you know that it was called deadliest catch? Do a season? Oh, yeah, yeah, and the bearing straight, and the bearing straight yeah, just be a fisherman in the bearing straight for a season and then after that, I don't know, go do something in hospitality and after that maybe go and do I don't know, just weird and wonderful jobs everywhere. Because so you know, I've done the North Coast 500 twice now and I don't know I'm not doing that in April. Oh, are you? Yeah, I'll give you some tips, because there was a couple of hairy moments that I should probably be wary of.

But the.

Thing that, let's be honest, scotland is one of the most beautiful countries in the world, if not the most beautiful but at the same time, for all the views, all this, it was the people I met along the way that really made it into the really made the experience and hearing their stories and you know, having my own, having my own, having my own perspectives and beliefs challenged, I'm in a very fortunate position. Whatever way I've developed, I kind of like being proved wrong. Like if I'm holding a view and somebody challenges, they go oh crap, what if I'm wrong? And you're not going to get that, being stuck in your room or in your university campus scrolling through tech talk and Facebook and echo chambers of people who all agree with you.

So yeah, you know absolutely.

Yeah. So I think that's that's extremely important. So I would say yeah, first actionable step would be to sit down in nature or your university campus greenery ground, whatever in your back garden and really hammer out what are your values, what makes you happy, what if money was no object? What would you do? And I think that's a good starting point, and with sitting in nature you'll get that clarity as well. You can physically and mentally decompress from the hustle of city life, from life in general, and just get your own personal headspace to work with. Big thing. I'm a fan of journaling, I love, love journaling. Just, I tend to like word vomit onto a page doesn't have to make sense, but it's just nice to get thoughts down to, and it helps as well, I think, with both your, your mental and emotional health too. I'd give it back to you. Actually, what would you say is an actionable step for? So they've, so they've gotten into the woods, they've hammered out you know what, what makes them happy and all that kind of thing. But there's no, it's actually I've got the, I've got the bug now for getting into the wild and to nature, all that kind of thing. What would you then suggest is an actionable step for getting into the wild, for really living it to its fullest, both physically well, all three physically, yeah, yeah.

And so if you caught the bug, then some actual skill, you know, get some actual physical skills so you can start, you know, you can start exploring it at all times of the year. So, my, you know, the key one, I suppose, would be learning how to make a, make a fire, and it could be any method, man, it doesn't have to be fire by friction, it could be cotton, wool and Vaseline and a cigarette lighter, it doesn't matter. At the end of the day, you just got to get a fire going. So who cares how you do it? I'm especially if it's just you know, just you. I mean getting some core skills, being getting comfortable, getting comfortable and being comfortable in the outdoors. So I would say, highlighting and then, and some tool, use some skills, some tools to enable you to make things that are will enhance your life out there, you know, and also allows you to a knife and learn how to use a knife appropriately, learn how to do a bit of carving. And then, all of a sudden, you've gone from someone who just like, likes the outdoors and likes to peace and quiet, to being able to keep yourself warm without carrying loads of kit and also being able to fashion, useful items, be it something to hang your kettle on or pot hanger or and these are all basic, really fundamental skills or something to something to eat with or you know what or whatever it is that you've decided you're going to make some 10 pegs or something like this is all real basic stuff. And then all of a sudden you've gone from like I'm now carrying less equipment so I can rely on my own skills, and with that comes a confidence, and with that confidence comes self esteem, and with more self esteem comes more confidence, and it's like this big spiral of oh hold on, I can really look after myself out in a wilderness, in the woods. And those skills are transferable to modern society as well. You know, not obviously going around setting fires in university campuses, but they are confidence and self-esteem. They are transferable skills, self-reliance you can rely on yourself to be in the middle of nowhere and come out quite happy. There's a line in one of the KEPPA books I was talking about earlier on. It says a man who knows the wilderness is never truly lost when he lays his bedroll, his home type thing. And with that I can go into the woods and be completely happy, or into the wild and be completely happy and not panic when others around you are running around like lunatics. With that come transferable skills to within a business environment. I don't know who said it, but it was like if you can hold your head when the rest of the world's running around, oh, you're a man, my son yeah. Man, woman, he, she, they. I'm a debt form, that sort of stuff these days. But yeah, that's where I'd start, like learn the basics, get comfortable and then decide which way you want to take it.

Yeah, I love what you just said there as well about how having that an epic confidence, knowing you can stand on your own two feet, knowing that you can take care of yourself, you can handle yourself and hide that transfers across to the business side of things or the work side of things. Because if you have self-esteem, you then know your worth. So then you know there's always that one person in the workplace who's just being polite. The polite version I can say on the audio waves is a tool, yeah, a tool. But if they're giving you grief you can tell them to in a way that's not going to get HR on your back to get lost. You know, or you stand up for yourself. If you have that self-esteem, you know your worth, you know that you can stand up for yourself. There's a transferable skill Confidence. If you have the confidence to walk into the wild and to take care of yourself, you're going to have the confidence to go into your boss and say, boss, I'd like a pay rise or I'd like to be considered for promotion. You know that kind of thing. It's one of those things that a lot of people think oh, I'll just walk into the woods, but I don't see how this is going to benefit me here and now. It's going to hide. This is going to benefit me in my work life, so I love the fact that you mentioned that as well. So, yeah, a good, actionable step to get into the woods and actually learn how to thrive, which I suppose coming full circle back to what you actually do for a living. You know, people can go on, especially if they're in the Dorset area or whatever. Go on your courses and learn how to learn how to thrive in the woods or wherever they are geographically in the world. There's always going to be, hopefully, a reputable bushcraft instructor nearby that can teach them to appreciate the woods, to appreciate the environment they're in, to take care of the environment as well. You know, because suddenly, once you're into which go, oh, this is worth saving, this is worth looking after for future generations as well.

Yeah, the, the, you can't. You can't love, protect and love something if you don't know what its value is.

Oh, that's a powerful, that's a powerful statement right there.

Well, you know, it's that takes us on to different subjects. About whether people should be allowed to interact with wild places because they ruin them. I would fundamentally say yes, because if you don't interact with it and you don't know the worth and you don't go to love it, then it's just. It's just another, isn't it? It's just over there and, oh, we're going to cut it all down. Well, I don't give a crap, because I've never been there and I don't. I don't know what it's worth, but I'm not interested. So, yeah, I can't remember what it was just said. I've gone off in a tangent. Now again.

No, that's all right. It was about the actionable steps and taking care of the environment and all that kind of thing, yeah.

Yeah, yeah, there's, yeah, there's loads of, there's loads of things you can do like, yeah, you could, you could also. You know there's plenty of people out there that are looking for volunteers to help for hours here and there maintain, yeah, Old English Woodland and stuff like that. So there's that sort of stuff as well.

I mean not, I don't know the specifics by imagine if, like you're in America, I imagine there's going to be some sort of, you know, forest ranger program, or if you're in Asia or South Korea, there's going to be bound to be some sort of environmental way that you know you can help and learn to appreciate the woods. And this is good as well, because not only are you getting into the woods and getting your own personal benefit from it, the society around you is benefiting because the environment's being looked after ultimately by people who really do care for it. So yeah, I mean some people. I do laugh at sometimes how people go. They hear on the news, oh, this big historic Woodlands getting cut down, and if you're like, oh, no, worries, it doesn't affect me. Well, and round about where it does, because you know the less people who are spending time in Woodland, the more everybody's getting worked up, the more everybody's getting stressed out in this concrete jungle that we live in. That's just you got to be permanently hustling, you know. If you're not, you're not grinding out 80, 90, our weeks, you're not really working kind of thing it's. You know, it's really bad.

It's really bad. See, that's not. That's not around the bush. You're not people. You're not designed to work 80 hours, 90 hours a week. It's not the whole point of why we're on this planet and it's only a narrative that's being pumped out for endless growth, endless, endless GDP increasing endless. You know we've got to go to improve this and got to make that bear and got back out there. Just stop. Take a look around, man. Ever this, this whole 80 hour work week, what? Why? Who's it benefiting? It's not benefiting you and it's only benefiting 1% of society, or it's only benefiting your boss and you're not being paid enough properly for this. It's what you're doing. I am going on a rant now.

Then for God's sake, stop it. Yeah, just just saying I'm very in favor of the way Nordic countries do things. They seem to have a very good balance of, you know, your personal life and your work life. You know. I think they're even toying with the idea of a four day working week, or something which I am. I am 100% game for yeah yeah, yeah, I work for myself. So maybe I'll graduate to that level one day, john maybe at the podcast is successful enough or my standout comedy ticks off. Who knows well, maybe I'll maybe do all right.

It's four day working week. Scandinavia. Yeah, they got a lot going on, a lot of benefits, a lot of pluses.

And lots of lovely woodland as well, which will hopefully get the Explorer one day.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm working on a trip to go to Finland, which is just absolutely glorious. Just yeah, woodland everywhere. I think 80% of their country is just dense woodland. But yeah, just get outside, get outside and get some, get some nature.

Yeah, maybe that could be just a part of the actionable steps. Don't overthink it. Just get outside. Getting you. Yeah, absolutely yeah. Get into your garden, get it, go on a walk. There's a really good offer. I like Alistair Humphries and he talks about going on micro adventures or the doorstep mile Really good book. I really recommend those and it doesn't need to be a grand blow to the rings expedition that just take a walk a mile around from your house and you just open it and see it with new eyes. You know, take in whatever nature has to offer.

What I'd say, is when I was learning to teach someone, a good friend of mine told me the phrase paralysis by analysis.

Yes, I love that phrase.

Yeah, is that if you overthink, everything you get is exactly that. If you analyze stuff too much, you get paralyzed by the fact that this this, this, that there's the other go under it, like, just don't overthink stuff, just go out and get into nature, be it a public park or be a woodland or a mountainous area or the beach, or just go and just don't think it. Don't think about anything else other than I'm going to go there. I'm going to sit for half an hour, no phone, no tech. Leave it in the car, leave it in your room. Just go and sit and get used to being bored, get used to doing nothing, all right, and I think once you've got used to doing nothing, you're already going to be 80% of the way there.

Yeah, no, 100%. I totally agree with all of that. The only thing I would say is just because this is a global audience, apply good common sense. Don't be going into the mountains with not the right gear no phones, no, nothing. The audience are mostly intelligent, but for that 1% here they're like I told me to go to the mountain with no phone. That is not what we're saying. Apply good common sense. Take a nice coat if you have to, some waterproof, sit in the woods and chill out with no tech, but don't be going to the Himalayas with no phone and no gear and things. Oh, somebody on a podcast told me to do that.

No, they were not, don't do that. Yeah, I'm assuming that a beginner would not go to the Himalayas, although if you do, if you decide to do that, then fair play. Let me know if you get back alive, because that would be great.

Yeah, 100%, I think. To wrap it all up, john, for anybody who is interested in perhaps getting started in Bushcraft or wants to know more about your own content, where can they find you on the socials and your website?

Oh yeah. So wwwwildwaybushcraftcouk for the website. If you go onto Facebook and just search, we'll come up with a Facebook page there and all that sort of stuff. Instagram is at Wildway Bushcraft. There's a lot of running theme with Wildway Bushcraft. Yeah, there's also a YouTube channel which we're in the process of growing at the moment, which is Wildway Bushcraft. So there's some videos and stuff on there and there's going to be a bit of a series coming up soon about cooking in the wild and stuff like that. But just remember, what I put out on Instagram and Facebook is all the shiny stuff. Occasionally I'll put some real like this is minging, but everything on Instagram, every photo that I put up, is edited to make it look amazing, as it can be, Just like everyone else. It's not particularly. It's great for inspiration, but it's not real. Don't judge yourself by the Instagram editing skills of others.

Yeah, that's absolutely love. I can tell you're a really good bloke, like being able to like. Yeah, this is going to look amazing, but just bear in mind the reality. You know, absolute top bloke, john. Yeah, john, I want to say thank you so much for coming back on the podcast for a third time. It's been amazing as always, and, with any luck, we'd love to have you back on again in the future.

Yeah, Johnny, it's a pleasure. As always, mate, I love talking to you. It's this really cool project we've got going on with trying to tap the guide people that are younger than yourself in through the obstacles that you've passed already, so I think it's great. I'd like you know whenever it's clever. I'll come back whenever you want me.

Oh, 100%. I look forward to it. All the best, John.

Take care mate.

Bye-bye. There you go, folks. That concludes today's episode. I hope you got a lot of value out of the content provided. If you did, then please do consider subscribing to the Curious Ulsterman podcast on your preferred streaming service and leaving us a five-star rating and review. That really helps the podcast grow. Thank you very much. If you would like to follow the Curious Ulsterman on the various social media channels to view upcoming content, the Curious Ulsterman is on Facebook, instagram, twitter, tiktok, youtube and Twitch all at the Curious Ulsterman. If you know someone who would benefit from this content, then please do share it with your friends and family on the various social media channels. You can also check out our website at wwwthecuriousulstermancom, where you can view our full catalogue of episodes across all the seasons. If you would like to get in touch with the Curious Ulsterman, then please do get in contact on the various social media channels mentioned, or there is a voice note option on our website. As always, folks, I'm open to suggestions to make this podcast a better experience for you, the listener. If you tuned in today for the first time, thank you very much and I hope you got value from the content I provide. If you're one of our seasoned listeners. Thank you so much for the continuous support. I am eternally grateful. I hope you'll join us for next week's episode, folks, but until next time I wish you all the best. Bye for now.