Growing Globally While Taking Care of Your People with Roheel Ahmad

Intro [00:00:00]:

Welcome to the elite recruiter podcast with your host, Benjamin Mena, where we focus on what it takes to win in the recruiting game. We cover it all from sales, marketing, mindset, money, leadership, and placements.

Benjamin Mena [00:00:18]:

This is gonna be An exciting episode of Elite Recruiter podcast. I have my special guest. Rahil Ahmed from Forsyth Barnes to talk about one growing globally than 2 innovation. And one of the reasons why I'm excited to talk with Rahel is they have bootstrapped their organization to a place of what 80 something internal employees now. They have focused on just growth, innovation, and everything has been bootstrapped. every dollar they have made, they've invested back into their company. So I'm excited to have you on the podcast to talk about 1 growing globally, too innovating. And also, like, let's talk about how you you guys have grown this business successfully across the globe. So welcome to podcast.

Roheel Ahmad [00:01:02]:

Thanks for having me. Great to be.

Benjamin Mena [00:01:04]:

So before we get started, how did you even end up in this wonderful world of recruiting?

Roheel Ahmad [00:01:09]:

I Been in and around sales since I was about, well, even pre 15, but my first official legal sales job as well as 15, just almost turning 16. and it was a down and dirty call center environment 3 hours. You weren't actually allowed. There was only about I'd say 10 of us are allowed to do more than the single shift in any one day. You weren't allowed to do a double shift. That's how intense it was. It was 3 hours on an auto dialer. The minute one call hangs up, and they said if you weren't sworn, it was a good call. Put it that way. The minute it it hangs up is on to the next one. You can't control it. There is no pause. There's no anything. There's no toilet breaks. Yeah. So coming from that to this, it's nice to be able to speak to people who actually want to engage, want to talk, have got something to talk to you about, and not so able to be used here.

Benjamin Mena [00:02:02]:

Yeah. I mean, going from getting yelled at to fifty people, I I actually wanna talk about this conversation. I wanna talk about this job. I love that.

Roheel Ahmad [00:02:10]:

And I learned that at 15 16. So fear of rejection quickly got beat out on me pretty quick. And, well, that's one

Benjamin Mena [00:02:17]:

thing that stops a lot of refrigerators dead in their tracks from answering their potential.

Roheel Ahmad [00:02:21]:

Alright. So you've been told to to do one say 100 out of the 300 calls that you're that you're making or so. It's, yeah, if you you don't worry about it, not not this time, thanks, type of conversation.

Benjamin Mena [00:02:33]:

So within a from the sales job to recruiting, like, how is that segue into recruiting?

Roheel Ahmad [00:02:38]:

Oh, I no. That was when I was

Intro [00:02:40]:

15 16,

Roheel Ahmad [00:02:40]:

you know, become a manager of that place, one of the youngest managers there, actually, for that business. He all lost us to school, in the UK. Oh, I he then went to university, studied law, got a bit lazy if I'm being really honest, had a few jobs before, and after all kind of sales related. I've done some food sales, selling advertising. Again, I was a first seventeen year old into that place. They'd never hide someone so young, and had a company car of 17. None of my mates had had one. So I'd always kind of strive for those types of opportunities. I remember through 1st year summer of university, I turned up to a global corporate trying to get a management role. And I looked to him and said, not a chance. You can have this role, but you're not getting a manager's role. But I guess that kind of just landed my ambition anything I applied, Paul, was usually out of my understanding knowledge, remit in terms of age, or experience. And then straight after university, I had an injury for about 6 months. I was in crutches. Who just decided just let's just get back into it. I knew I was going to pursue all the bear pursued a law route. just wasn't enough. And I I'm a bit tired of studying, to be honest, It's a bit too rich theory and not enough practicality behind it, at the time. And, yeah, so I found my way into -- recruitment role in 2010. Yeah.

Benjamin Mena [00:04:08]:

And then just, took off from there.

Roheel Ahmad [00:04:10]:

No. Not the 1st job.

Intro [00:04:11]:

6

Roheel Ahmad [00:04:11]:

weeks. lasted 6 weeks. Got told a few days after I didn't do cope with my bosses that I wasn't gelling well enough for the team. Cool. took that one on the chin, but actually was so thankful that the whole episode happened because of what The environment was there and what their version of high performance was compared to the place that I joined then, May 17th 2010, hyphened. It just had a completely different diff a different definition to it. And that's where I really understood what work ethic meant that I'll be honest. I didn't like the feeling of being fired. So for the 1st 6 months, it was don't even put yourself in that position to have the same conversation happy to you again. even though it's for different reasons. Just didn't didn't I'm from a kind of small sleepy town in the UK. So I didn't want to go back with my tail tucked between my legs of I tried, but, you know, can you can you lend me some money or I'm struggling or I have to come back home? So, yeah, just re refuse to let myself do it.

Benjamin Mena [00:05:11]:

I I gotta say that it always sounds like a blessing of disguise getting let go because you wouldn't do a line of coke with your boss. It's insane. And just

Roheel Ahmad [00:05:20]:

I recognize the importance of it now. I think it's one of those things. In the moment, you're just I need to pay rent. I need money. I need to pay bills. I'm not going back home, title, and it's only now in hindsight, where it's taught me so much about what I don't want FB to be, what I don't want the culture here to be like, how not to treat people, how not how not to have an environment which is, supposedly inclusive for this, actually, and all those types of things that are back on it. Even to the the point of where I said, look, I'm now gonna be in a position where I'm gonna have to hire people. I'm gonna have to let people go. I will cheat them with respect to actually do it face to face. Never will I just drop them a or record or anything like that. So it's almost like the helmet to treat people 101, type check.

Benjamin Mena [00:06:08]:

it sounds like that lesson that you've already, is, like, paid multiple dividends.

Roheel Ahmad [00:06:12]:

Yep. So

Benjamin Mena [00:06:14]:

so let's talk about FB.

Roheel Ahmad [00:06:15]:

Yep. So as the started my cofounder, Scott, we've known each other since 2010, mates first and foremost, so other than about 6 months or so. we've been working together, see if last 13 years, spent more time with him than his wife has for the 1st 7 or

Intro [00:06:33]:

8.

Roheel Ahmad [00:06:33]:

We've even lived together for a few months, whilst he's relocating backup in the UK. we so I think we've got a good handle on knowing each other, knowing what motivates each other, knowing how to rile the other one up, if we're being really honest. so there's that, but we've got really similar ambitions I think that's been so important to the growth of our business so far. Very ambitious, very competitive in both of our natures with each other, but protected with each other as well. and it's just we're pretty aligned on most things. That means that we're heading to the right in the same direction. So I think that's really important, 1st and foremost. That's the foundation of the business. Global mid senior executive appointments business operating in the fintech, Etail And Sports And Entertainment World. phenomenal growth so far. Our completely bootstrapped, so we're never taking a dime from anyone. we've got a vision to head the business public over the next

Intro [00:07:29]:

4

Roheel Ahmad [00:07:29]:

or 5 years, and we've set that out. We've committed to giving to grow the business to a certain level. So very

Intro [00:07:35]:

$75,000,000

Roheel Ahmad [00:07:36]:

business plus is what we're looking forward to, and we've committed already to giving a third of that away to the people in our business. So effectively, We're giving away $25,000,000 a part of $25,000,000 to our own people, and that that's the big thing that we're driving on at the moment. We've got people who are on track that are on a trajectory now that will take home

Intro [00:07:57]:

1.89.9

Roheel Ahmad [00:07:58]:

mil. after everything, and that's not done as a sacrifice thing. That's an additional way of us saying thank you for being so instrumental in the grocery for this as well. So yeah.

Benjamin Mena [00:08:09]:

I I wanna say I I I, you know, I don't think enough people talk about ways to help compensate and grow the people that have, like, invested in their the company that they're working at. And I love that you guys are actually, you know, told the team setting the team up where if you guys win, they win also.

Roheel Ahmad [00:08:28]:

Yeah. That that's how I think about it. My way of thinking about it is not if the business does well, my people are doing well, If my people are doing well, the business cannot fail to do anything but well. So it's the people first. So I look for the the success stories are people whose ambition it was to, relocate from the UK to New York and go out there with us. And he's gone and done it. People who wanted to to get all the property ladder in 5 years, they've done it before. People have then been able to get their family on and and so on and so forth. And the way people are gonna have to elevate their own personal circumstances They're the things that I take the most pride in. And again, if they're able to do that in their personal lives, which is being funded and and so on through us in the work that they're doing here, That means a business called me doing badly.

Benjamin Mena [00:09:18]:

Well, and so few people take that route. Why did you I don't wanna even say that this is innovation. but I feel like it's innovation of the space. Why did you guys take the route to make the investment like this back into your team?

Roheel Ahmad [00:09:32]:

When Scott and I first together and said, what do you want this business to be about? There were too many times where we were so frustrated on corners being cut or advantages being tried to be taken from the business. If we move this set of invoices to here, we'd have to pay as much commission or bonus. If we do this then we take a bit more money for ourselves, those types of things. And I don't mean this in a disrespectful way, but I just think that's so small minded that rather than focusing on how to penny pinch and save a little bit here or there, Think capture about how you can use that to go and grow and actually achieve what you want to achieve through growth, not through saving. has its downsides and that there's always that thing from a personal perspective of growth, gross, gross, spend, spend, spend, spend, and sometimes we have to rain that back in and so on as well at print time time. Right? but I would rather go it it's one of the reasons why we went to New York. We didn't go to Boston. We didn't go to Miami. We didn't go just out side of New York. We haven't gone to Brooklyn or anywhere like that. We've gone first office Manhattan, get straight into the the the depth of it, into the the toughest environment you could possibly do coming in the differences from the UK, the cost structure in Singapore compared to the UK. We haven't sat there and said that hours will be, we'll do this from the UK. Again, great profit and, cost saving, etcetera. because I always think that that will only get you to a certain point. And you're not all in until you're all in. And so for us, being all in was If we wanna do business out in New York and in the US, let's get it out there. Let's get in the most competitive environment. Let's get out there in the busiest area. Let's get out of the restrictions where It's that for a reason. There's plenty of benefits that come with it as well. So it's just that same thing if we're not here to cut foreigners and do can like, grow through savings, it's growth through actual growth.

Benjamin Mena [00:11:26]:

Now when you guys sat

Roheel Ahmad [00:11:27]:

down and, like, you know,

Benjamin Mena [00:11:27]:

you guys are, like, we're originally focused on the UK.

Roheel Ahmad [00:11:30]:

Yeah. And you sat down and

Benjamin Mena [00:11:31]:

looked at, like, alright. Let's attack the American market. Yep. When why did you decide to attack the American market and 2? Why did you just jump into Manhattan?

Roheel Ahmad [00:11:42]:

Being from the UK, New York in Manhattan specifically has always got that thing. I There's a common phrase used out here that New York is London and steroids. And it it gets commonly abandoned about, but honestly, I'm out there so often and spit my time to the UK and the US. It really is. I am walking down The waterfront looking on the side, New Jersey, having just played soccer finish at about half 10 quarter to 11 at night. I'm seeing people pushing their strollers down the water. I'm seeing people juggling people walking their dogs. People still queuing the tennis courts. by peer 40. And I love that, and you just don't have that in the UK. So I think that's why Manhattan specifically, you just don't get that anywhere else. that that buzz. When I'm up early in the morning, the first thing I do is I look outside my hotel room to try and spot people in their offices because I'm usually staying at around

Intro [00:12:39]:

5:30.

Roheel Ahmad [00:12:40]:

Who's up? Who's up and at it straight away? Like, those early mornings, and I have that respect. who's on the streets who's making their way into work at 5 AM, that kind of thing, which I love that which I do feel was slightly lost some of that that element in in London. As to why the US, that that was from day

Intro [00:12:58]:

1.

Roheel Ahmad [00:12:58]:

When we set up the business, we always said we were gonna be a global business. It wasn't that we, focused on the UK and then decided to go to the US. It was, how quickly can we get to the US? right right here. And now at the beginning, it's UK until we get to a certain point where we can get out and do not just the US. Looking at the Middle East, we're looking at ADA, PAC region, etcetera as well. So It's not the US and the Limivara, permanent ambition.

Benjamin Mena [00:13:23]:

I love that, you know, talking about New York. Like, I we typically stay right across from Goldman Sachs's headquarters. and, like, just the energy there. And then occasionally, it's, like, 2 o'clock in the morning. You see people leaving the office on a Tuesday night or a Friday night, but There's just a work ethic and energy and, you know, it it rubs off on you also. Yeah.

Roheel Ahmad [00:13:43]:

It does. It it is it honestly, it's truly inspirational. It's good.

Benjamin Mena [00:13:46]:

Awesome. And you you said you guys are looking at other parts of the growing globally. What other put you each? APAC, like, how do you grow? outside the UK or outside the US.

Roheel Ahmad [00:13:57]:

So I think through lessons learned of previous travails, we try to incubate it here first. and make sure that there's a enough of a market or relationships that the people that are going out there are well versed in the FB way and how we do things. before then going out to whether it's the US or or wherever. we've got you. We'll continue to grow that. We've just had someone who's started the last few days. We've got more people joining in the the New York office and team as well, and we continue to go out there. Once that's at the right level with them looking as quickly as we can, and there's no timelines there at the West Coast. So we're kind of putting our flag in LA for now. It's likely to be in LA or close to We're asking questions because we've also got tech play in the background that we're building. Do we do a Sam Fran with that entire in and therefore, FBs and some from the tech businesses and some from as well, etcetera. So it could be that, but we're we're kind of using LA is until we're ready to do so. It's the kind of visualization piece, if you like. and then more recent, we've been asking questions about Dubai. So open up the Middle East, we've got some clients out there in the entire world, We've got clients out there in the sports world within Formula 1. so yes, the Yasmineral circuit is a client of ours as well. Do we then open that up as our gateway to the far east APAC type reaches? It's a bit closer. It's either they're going all the way out there or the time differences. So it's a kind of stepping stone that would allow us to then go out further. But is there a strong enough market, which we think there is or where you've got the we're still going through research phase at the moment. But how can we do that? And then to be honest, a real query from there is are we strong enough to do both at the same time? or do we have to prioritize? The smart say prioritize going and then do the other. the, I don't know, maybe the ego ambitioning says get yourself in the points where you can do both. Even if you don't decide to do both, get yourself in the basement operationally, you can actually handle both. because that means we're in a much stronger place as an overall business as well.

Benjamin Mena [00:15:59]:

And fabulous. Now one of the things that we were talking about before we got started is, the innovation that you guys are doing. What kind of innovation are you guys tackling? What kind of challenges and how are you bringing innovation to

Roheel Ahmad [00:16:10]:

the space as you're in? Yeah. So Look. We're in an industry, which is I love it, and I'm so thankful to the opportunity that's afforded us since so many of the people here, and let's face it. At the customer end, there's not been a great deal of innovation or or value add, really. A lot of businesses because there's such low barriers to entry. A lot of still operating on larger practices and terminology that were banded about 3, maybe even 4 decades ago. And the same sort strategies and so on. So that is a question that I ask myself pretty much daily. So as a business on the medium term, we're productizing our business where No longer is a business grown more trades on the reputation a client has with a single individual. But more and more businesses are coming to FB on the strength of our products for the products themselves, not because of just purely a relationship. I think you'll ever take away the relationship element to it in its entirety, but wanna be that product focused organization. So we're doing that at the moment right now as well.

Benjamin Mena [00:17:11]:

And when you say product, what does that mean in our space?

Roheel Ahmad [00:17:13]:

So for instance, we do a lot of retained assignments with our clients where we go and hire their next senior exec into their business. and and go on the the head hunting search for them. I want that to be our lowest value product. Not I don't need financial value. but value that we're able to offer the client. So what are we in? The way we're kind of innovating some of that is the way we will conduct the offers for our clients. We've innovated the way we now offer people internally in FB where we've got a

Intro [00:17:42]:

100%

Roheel Ahmad [00:17:42]:

success rate on our, offer to acceptance. Internally, since we started doing this, It taps in much more into psychology of the individual when you're actually going to offer as opposed to most clients will just Pick up the phone. Here's the offer. Here's the numbers. Do you want it? Are you in? I know. There's a whole build up that needs to be done before it. There's a whole journey that needs to be created along that that process, but specifically at the office stage where that individual has to come away from that. Irrespective of the acceptance or rejection or anything thinking, do you know what? That is the best offer process I've ever, ever been through with any business, and that's been put on by FB. And for the client to come back and say, we've never had anyone give us that kind of feedback before. That's because of you guys, because of your product. So at every turn that we engage with a client through a a retained process now, that my yardstick is for a client or a to turn around and say, I've never experienced that before. I've never seen this before. I've never had this before. Whether it comes back to us or as representative of the client, that that's the thing that we're really looking for because if it the candidate's thinking that about the client, clients don't feed that back to us saying feedback we're getting from the process that you guys are running is phenomenal. The impression of our business is phenomenal. That will all in turn deliver greater value for the client, which just helps got our brand in in their space as well. So these are all the things that I'm truly thinking of now. If that journey, that people take in going through a process and dealing with FB. How does that look? How does that feel? Let's not be limited by what our industry has been doing for the last 3 or 4 decades. They're trying to take some inspiration from the tech industries from all these other sectors that probably do a lot better than we do.

Benjamin Mena [00:19:30]:

I absolutely love that because I mean, you you've said it earlier. How many companies are just like, hey. Here's your candidate or, hey. Here's the offer. Alright. Cool. You're you've setting up the process, you're building it out, and giving the experience, and people talk about experience. nonstop. So I'm sure that's just another BD, like, you know, okay, incredible experience is turning into a great BD leverage for you too.

Intro [00:19:55]:

100%.

Roheel Ahmad [00:19:56]:

yeah, that's that's part of what we're doing in the background. I was mentioning the longer term vision. We're building a tech platform right now. that is all geared towards a growth in scale markets, which we do some of our absolute best work. We have more impact and sat in front of the founder, a CEO of a business, which where they want to take their business from a to zed over the next 3 years, and I under understand their objectives of what they want to achieve as a business, Then we could start talking to him about the roll up talent has to pay within that. Have sat in penalties here over fashion brand where my marketing expert sat there. basically structuring. They don't really have much internally at the moment. They're basically giving you advice of how to structure the whole marketing department down to different personalities and profile types because if we get view this in this area here, you don't need someone who's a stronger branding so we could probably get you this. Here's how you bonus them. Here's how you, give them all tips. It's just gonna entice them. Here's then what we need to do with the teams underneath them, etcetera, etcetera. This will help you get to the numbers that you've just said you wanna hit on your revenue targets by in the next 3 to 5 years.

Benjamin Mena [00:21:00]:

That's phenomenal. That's what every company needs. That's what every company struggles to freaking figure out.

Roheel Ahmad [00:21:06]:

Yeah. And, yeah, those kind of conversations that we join

Benjamin Mena [00:21:10]:

and you're coming in as a full on, like, consultant. Like, I like, this is gonna sound dumb, but it's just the way that you're talking about this future product being. It's like something that you could also, like, come in, consult, pull equity, and do the recruiting.

Roheel Ahmad [00:21:22]:

That that tech platform for us is the ideas that we've got behind it where if it If we get it to do what we think it can do and it plugs into some of the other data's -- Platforms are.

Intro [00:21:35]:

--

Roheel Ahmad [00:21:35]:

are out there. it essentially would reach out to the founders of these businesses through their subscription that they already have has actually saved based on where you are on your journey, we think you need X Y Zed. And so that's where some of the AIs coming into it, taking from the data that is already out there, whether they're going through funding or whether they're a certain part of their journey, you embarked on this major program of work 12 months ago. Based on all the other data that we've collated from all the other businesses that we work with, They're now at this phase of their project. It is a good shout that you might, in the next 3 months, be needing X Y Zed in terms of services or support to get there, or you need further funding a blah blah blah. And so that's it's either it's trying to take them there on that journey to help them scale their businesses. It's more difficult to have someone like, as much as I love them and they're a client of ours. I don't think a Nike is gonna benefit from the platform the same way as a growth and scale organization is. So these are all some of the things that we're kinda looking to put in into the the overall platform.

Benjamin Mena [00:22:36]:

That is phenomenal. Now before we go into the next part of the conversation, or anything else that you'd love to share about FB Innovation, your guys' culture, or any of that stuff?

Roheel Ahmad [00:22:47]:

I mean, look, I think it's been an amazing seven and a half years. I think it's been an amazing journey for everything that we've achieved, but we're still I still think of us but it's such an early phase Don't like to call us a startup because I think we're somewhat beyond that, but I almost wanna retain the fun cultural element that does come with that mindset. We're still taboo with the with our money. We're not flipping with it. and like you said before, we reinvest every every cent that we have back into the business as well. So it's mask where it scares Gareth. So I think it's just that thing. Sometimes you lose sight of, you think you're a lot further on the journey than you actually are, and it's a lot more advanced. And then say, actually, for our ambitions and the org structures that we've got for each office, There's so much opportunity for people to come into this. I think I'm still at an early phase. I can still get into that share scheme and come up with over a $1,000,000. on what that that looks like. I can still have this much growth. I can still progress. My MD in in Nottingham in the UK, he joined a senior consultant who is now my MD in 4 years. There's still so much of that opportunity. People speak to us about acquisitions. there's still a hell of a lot for us to achieve and do, of which we're hugely excited about that journey.

Benjamin Mena [00:24:03]:

That's exciting. And I like I said, I I'll I'll say this I'll highlight this again for the listeners. I I love that you guys are creating opportunities for that when you guys win, they win. Like, places where, like, you know, when you guys go live, like, on the on the market, it could be easy 1,000,000 plus dollars for somebody that's even starting their career with you guys right now. love that. It's yeah. We've got

Roheel Ahmad [00:24:28]:

I think the other thing that's important most, I met a few people that has interviewed a few recently, and they're saying it's a bit cloak and dagger. We don't really know who the shareholders or how many or what value they've got. We we're loud and proud about it. We've just had a part for your sales conference announcing a record of a h one, especially against the backdrop of the industry struggling, and X business is down 34%. X business is down 44%, etcetera. We're up. We've hit a record H1 for a record year. And we're loud about this, how many shares these people have got. This is only shareholders we've got, which are all internally FB people. This is a value. This is a trajectory of what this individual has. Why would we not want to celebrate that feeling? Shout out?

Benjamin Mena [00:25:14]:

once again, I love that because I actually looked at a company years years ago where it was talking about shares, but if you ask them, like, what the shares are worth or this kind of stuff, they're like, well, it's gonna be based on yeah. It it was just exactly. I I you said, like, cloak and dagger, but nobody could answer a question.

Roheel Ahmad [00:25:30]:

Yeah. They've worked it, and I I do know why, but that's not us as a business.

Benjamin Mena [00:25:36]:

Awesome. Well, Excited to, jump into the quick fire questions with you. What advice would you give to a brand new recruiter that's starting out in this industry in

Intro [00:25:47]:

2023?

Roheel Ahmad [00:25:49]:

If I was putting out the context of FB, trust the process. That's the number one thing that I'd say because I know our process works. We we talk about it quite a bit internally of here's the next one off the conveyor belt. Here's the next one off the conveyor belt where people hit some phenomenal stats and numbers in their 1st 12, 15 months. Out of twenty one year old who in his 1st 12 months in the business ended up growing such a personal contract book. And then by about 14 months, I think it was, he had a team of

Intro [00:26:20]:

5

Benjamin Mena [00:26:20]:

at 21 at

Intro [00:26:21]:

21.

Roheel Ahmad [00:26:22]:

because -- Oh. -- you know, it it his age didn't matter. He's mature for his age. Don't get me wrong. His age didn't matter. is have to experience it, Matt. So bear in mind, this is someone who had, about 12 months' experience prior to us in a completely different market, high volume, low margin stuff. That's not us. So you have to kinda relearn everything. But that's not, an abnormal story for us either. the earnings that people have taken out in the inside the 1st 12 to 18 months, there's that's not a 1 in a million for us. I -- same time, I don't see it here to say the age old thing. You'll earn a

Intro [00:26:58]:

$100

Roheel Ahmad [00:26:58]:

in your 1st year, etcetera, etcetera. We've got plenty of people who have done it. It's hard. You've gotta have the work ethic for something like that as well. But in the context of FB, the number one thing I'd say is trust the process, trust our process. following through to a tee, halo canola.

Benjamin Mena [00:27:15]:

Awesome. Same question, but for people that have been in the game 5, 10, 25 years, What would you what advice would you give to an experienced recruiter that's looking at? Stay in successful or becoming successful.

Roheel Ahmad [00:27:28]:

if you're able to go back to your very 1st 12 months, assuming it was a successful 12 months for you. What actually did you have to do to get you that success? Never think that you'll be on that. We look at it in the sporting world all the time. If you've got an MBA playing NFL player who's now gonna made the cut and who's made the first to you, at what point do they think it would be okay to drop their fitness? I've got the skills and I've got the ability, but I don't have to try to work on my fitness. I don't have to get up and down the court or the the pitch for the whole game anymore. Yeah. The 1st foundation would be your fitness. Right? Why in our industry do so many think that after my 12 months have had a bit of success? I don't need to do those basics anymore. I'm beyond that. I don't need to do this. I don't need to do that. I don't need to look at my KPIs or whatever. It's You wouldn't accept that in a sports email. Don't accept that. Are you a person for it?

Benjamin Mena [00:28:24]:

I absolutely love that. Has there been a book that's had a huge impact on your own personal success?

Roheel Ahmad [00:28:30]:

I've just finished, and I had the pleasure of, seeing him just this week, actually, Tim Grover's book winning. So he's released the this is the individual who is famous amongst other things for her coaching, Michael Jordan, who's over Brian. So someone who knows about high performance and had had read pretty much back to back for relentless and then winning. And he was at using the cue behind me at at him JFK. just last Friday. So that was a bit early. How am I?

Benjamin Mena [00:29:01]:

That's super awesome.

Roheel Ahmad [00:29:02]:

Yeah. I'm not I'm not big for approaching people. But, yeah, that that was pretty good. Atomic habits is one that always comes to mind in terms of those little consistencies and the the science behind things as well. They're probably three of the ones that really come to mind off the bat. There's plenty of other people on this effective habits of people, etcetera, as well, how to build relationships. But they're they're probably some 3 that really appear to mind at the moment.

Benjamin Mena [00:29:30]:

how do you think AI is going to impact the future of recruiting?

Roheel Ahmad [00:29:35]:

I'll be honest. I don't even think we even I think everyone is putting things out there to try and steal a march of and being recognized as a a leading authority and a leading light on it. But I think clever reminds then I don't really fully understand the capability. I think we this is, like, the industrial revolution type time of The society and technology will advance at such a rate that we won't even have to keep up. I think what I see from some of the big the big boys of Adobe now, you almost used to have to need a degree to use Photoshop. Now it's enter text based instructions, and it all like, edit images and and so on. I don't think they really know. I do think that there's an element that the, either the gig economy or the more transactional end of the marketplace gets replaced with kind of AI algorithms and so on. I don't fear that it will do too much to replace us at the senior end of the market. Yet, I say that because, again, it's not within within my understanding at the moment, but I don't know how AI will pick up nuance, how AI will judge character because it's still working through data. I don't know how ai would speak to the CEO of a business and say, you do or don't have gravitas. And my client is looking for these kind of character or personality traits outside of references or whatever. But again, I just don't think that works. It's So, yeah, they're the things that I don't worry about at our level of the marketplace.

Benjamin Mena [00:31:14]:

one of the things that you've mentioned, I hear I hear kinda like a theme that you mentioned, like, once or twice already in our conversation about visualization. Like, you'd visualize this years ago. Yep. What is the impact of visualization been on some of your success and the things that you're doing.

Roheel Ahmad [00:31:33]:

I think as a culture, The American culture is so much better for it than we are as Brits. I think we are naturally self deprecating naturally Like, most people actually has a business going. My first thing is like, yeah. It's been alright. And there's a lot more self doubt that creeps in that we just have culturally. I think that as an American culture and I plug into this a lot more, is that almost deluded self belief is such an important trait to have. I'll I cannot or I will not Not that I cannot fail. I recognize that I will fail at lots, but I also recognize that it's an I don't think of it as a failure. And in fact, someone's speaking to saying you kindly bring yourself to use a word failure. I don't think of it as a failure. Just think of it as a stepping stone or a learning stone or a call. I have to tweak things to actually get the place that I want to get to. I don't want to induce fakes. I do believe in god. But as much as that is in my power, if you have to say to me, will FB be access to the level up we want to add, I can't imagine anything else. I genuinely cannot picture that it won't. Might be dangerous. might come across Oregon. Don't really care for either. I don't. I just don't think that it I can't see us failing. And, listen, if it does, I will I think of that as cool. We didn't we missed a trip somewhere. Let's pivot on something. Let's take the learn. We're coming from a pace of experience. I can now build what we it might have taken us 10 years to build. I think we can do it in

Intro [00:33:05]:

2.

Roheel Ahmad [00:33:06]:

So it's it's that call it delusion. Don't know. They do often say that entrepreneurs and serial killers have the same affliction of psychopathic tendencies, of which they neither think they will fail. in any situation. So if you ask Scott about me is very rarely do I think I'll go into a situation coming out from the worst end of it? We've played golf. I've never played golf before. He was having lessons, and I went on to a golf course expecting to beat him and was angry when I lost. and I've never been on the wall, of course, before. But I just looked in and thought, he hasn't got to him physically that I don't. It's hitting a ball. I've played other sports. My hand eye coordination's alright. Sure. I can do this. I couldn't, but yeah.

Benjamin Mena [00:33:51]:

Well, that kinda goes into my next question I have. Is there something that is been a major part of your personal success. And what is that?

Roheel Ahmad [00:34:00]:

I think some of the influences that I've had in my from a career perspective, which taught me how to do things, how not to do things. My for who I call my first real boss? Because I did count those 6 weeks per se. My sir, he he low he did teach me how not to do things. My first real boss, without going into details, we didn't end things on great terms. but there is so much I take away from him of inspiration of how he was able to bring people in flows, how we add good relationships with certain people, how he was able to paint a vision and motivate and inspire people that our personalities are different But if I can get a part of what he did in the way that he did it, then that was certainly right. So there's there's plenty of people take the inspiration from from a career perspective. There are, obviously, very famous business people that you look to and think to just have they innovated or have they grown out, how they scale that such a short time frame. On a personal level, I've spoken to a few times, I I can't go beyond my parents. Spoke to speak a lot about my dad and the work ethic that he's showing for someone who moved to the UK. Didn't speak the language. Fourteen, no education to speak of, and the work ethic he displayed. My mom can choose that as well because with all the work hours that dad was doing, mom had to learn the language, a little education, understand how things worked, had to look after kids with running the shop and stuff at the same time while dad was out doing a different job. I was a newborn. I think when she had that shop as well. my 2 first cousins were living with us, so she was effectively parenting them. Dad was putting those 2 and my sister through private school at the time. whilst sending money back to Pakistan whilst trying to elevate our lifestyle in either a a better hounds lifestyle situation for us. That's a mock. So it's from a personal level to see the struggles I haven't even got 5% of the strength and the the resilience that they have. Yeah. Man, awesome.

Benjamin Mena [00:36:08]:

Well, the this is actually gonna be one of my favorite questions, and it always is one of my favorite questions. Everything that you've gone through all the experiences, the ups and downs, the success of failures. If you can sit down and have a cup of coffee with yourself, at the very start of your career, what advice would you sit there and give yourself?

Roheel Ahmad [00:36:28]:

Good question. Very good question. Do these come from listeners, or have you pre thought of these out of curiosity?

Benjamin Mena [00:36:34]:

A pre think of these 3 people?

Roheel Ahmad [00:36:36]:

Dream bigger than you thought was possible. I think when we first started this, we wanted to just have a good recruitment business. and we weren't doing too much different, to be honest. That that kinda happened more over the last few years. At the very beginning, it was just Yeah. We think we can do this better and just make more money. I think a lot of it was about we can make money or we'll make more money. And over time, we started to understand ourselves a bit better that we're worth more than just just purely recruitment in sales and so on that. We can actually go on and have a greater impact in the industry. So if I had to go back to those 1st days, it was it would be think bigger than just having a profitable recruitment business. Awesome.

Benjamin Mena [00:37:24]:

This has been a phenomenal interview. Before I let you go, is there anything else that you'd love to share with the listeners?

Roheel Ahmad [00:37:30]:

I think there's been a great range of topics to cover, to be honest. And and aside from the value that, your listeners will get from listen to probably others other than just myself, and the great people I've been on the podcast. Enjoy the industry. I think it can give so much have a higher standard on it, especially with low barriers to entry that they can be across the industry, have a high standard build relationships. work hard. I I I don't think anything can replace the work if they came out of it. If you if you want to go ahead and achieve special things around good money, whatever your ambition is, like, make sure your work ethic backs up to the all that's required to grant him to achieve that. Don't expect to earn a 100 k if if that's what it is. And and have a 50 k work ethic if that makes sense. That makes perfect sense.

Benjamin Mena [00:38:17]:

Well, definitely thank you for coming on and sharing. I am so excited about what you guys are doing with FB and the future of FB. And I am for the listeners. You know, really, you're one placement or 2 placements away from completely changing your life. So let's go out there and crush the rest of the year. Thank you so much for joining us. Thanks, Evan.

Intro [00:38:35]:

Thanks for listening to this episode of the elite recruiter podcast asked with Benjamin MENA. If you enjoyed, hit subscribe and leave a rating.