How Two High Achieving Executive Moms Learned to Slow Down and Let Go - with Julie Kelleher

Leanna Laskey McGrath  0:08  

Welcome to the executive coach for moms podcast where we support women who are attempting to find balance and joy while simultaneously leading people at work and at home. I'm your host Leanna Laskey McGrath, former tech exec turned full time mom, recovering perfectionist and workaholic, and certified executive coach. 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  0:29  

Hi, everyone. Welcome back to the show. Thank you so much for joining me today. I am very excited to introduce today's guest, Julie Kelleher. Julie is a mom to two elementary school aged girls, and a marketing strategy and marketing executive in the education technology space. Julie has dedicated her entire career to education. She spent the early years as a public school teacher in Atlanta, Georgia, followed by two years teaching English as a foreign language to all grade levels as a Peace Corps volunteer in rural Ukraine. In 2007, she entered the EdTech space and never looked back. Welcome, Julie.

Julie Kelleher  1:07  

Thank you so much. It's great to be here, Leanna. 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  1:10  

Yeah, thank you so much for being here. And ironically, we've had lots of marketing executive moms on the show lately. That was unintentional. But also, I'm so excited to hear about your take on how you got there, and where you see yourself going with it. So if we could start off, maybe you could just tell us a little bit about you.

Julie Kelleher  1:31  

Sure. I'll I think I'll start at the very beginning. So I grew up in many countries, my dad was in the army, I was known as an Army brat. And I think that that just kind of provided me with this lens of the world. And we moved 18 times before I went to college. 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  1:46  

Oh, wow. 

Julie Kelleher  1:46  

So we lived 10 years in Germany, five years at a time, I went to three different high schools. And so I think that just kind of gave me this desire to want to always travel want to always experience new things. And that that's just kind of something that is at my core. And, you know, recently I was at a career inflection. And I have been out of school for 25 years, which I can't believe because I still think that I graduated from high school 10 years ago. But the reality is it's been 25 years. And I looked back at how I got to where I am today. And I realized that, you know, it's really rooted in two themes. One is lifelong learning, just this desire to constantly learn through experiences. And then another one is this concept of intentional proximity. And you know that I have to credit Jessie Woolley-Wilson, who is the former CEO of Dreambox learning, I worked there for two years, most recently, and she shared with me as I was considering working there, this concept of proximity is the pathway to understanding and understanding is the pathway to empathy. And so that really stuck with me. And it really still resonates to this day, like I'm just I'm an experiential learner, I love to, to just discover new things through my experiences. And that's really proximity, right? Like, I just want to get closer to something to learn more about it. And then I feel like those two things have been a core core components of my entire life and my career in particular. 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  3:08  

That's so interesting. Tell me more about that. i That's not a concept that I've really thought through or heard much about. 

Julie Kelleher  3:15  

Sure. So I'll walk through my career path to kind of give an example. So I went to college, and I didn't really know what I wanted to study. And my mom being, you know, the great mom that she is called around and you know, tried to find out like, I went to an engineering school, and she and I probably should have gone to a liberal arts school, but I'm not going to, you know, can't can't change any of that. And I love all the friends and the experiences I had. And so she called around and she found a program that was kind of the closest thing to liberal arts, and then also found out that at the time, you could cross enroll at so I went to Georgia Tech, and you could cross enroll at Georgia State and get a teaching certificate at the same time using kind of all my free electives from Georgia Tech. And so I you know, I'd always been curious about teaching, and I just really embraced that opportunity. And I student taught high school. So US history, I was 21. And I was teaching 16 year olds. And that's a whole other story where one girl actually thought that I was a new student one day. And then I ended up teaching middle school. 

Julie Kelleher  4:07  

So at the time, they didn't, there weren't any high school teaching jobs. I always wanted to be a Peace Corps volunteer, too. So I taught for a few years. And then my brother actually called and he said, When are you going to do this? And he was like, if you don't do it now, you're never going to do it. So I did. And you know, that was just kind of a big step towards intentional proximity. So moved to another country, lived with a family and learned another language, just to get fully immersed in another culture. They the language trainees is intense for three months, and then you're out on your own. So I lived in a city by myself. There was another American there for about three months, and then she was gone. And I commuted to a rural village and I was the only American they'd ever had there for until I got there. And then that was all intentional proximity, just living and working and being a part of another culture in another community. And then, you know, I'd been a teacher for five years at that point, and always noticed this disconnect between practice the pedagogy and the teaching and policy. 

Julie Kelleher  5:01  

And so I, I pursued graduate programs in policy. So I applied to a number of programs ended up attending one focused on international education policy. And then kind of halfway through, I shifted more to domestic policy because I was really interested in school reform. And there was a phenomenal professor that had some really great courses on just domestic school reform. And then I came to DC, many people, there's kind of this great migration from, you know, anybody that did Peace Corps, and then they study policy, and then they come to DC. And I found myself at an international education nonprofit, and it was interesting, but after you know, about a year and a half, I realized that we just kind of do the same thing over and over again, and I needed something different I needed a change. And so that kind of ties back to probably my childhood, and just moving a lot where if I feel like I'm not growing, then I'm gonna go seek the next thing. And there's a lifelong learning component. And then there's this intentional proximity, like, what am I most interested in next? What's the next topic I want to learn about? And then how can I make that part of my job or my, you know, how can I make that part of my day to day life? 

Julie Kelleher  6:07  

So I found my way to Blackboard, which was a large ed tech company at the time, and it was headquartered in DC. And that was really how I entered the education technology space. And from 2007 to now 2024, I've been in a number of different roles in ed tech companies, that also kind of took me on this path of intentional proximity, I kind of like went to a company based on the topic of the time that I was most interested in, and also even switched roles. So I went from marketing to sales, because I really wanted to understand how sales used all the things that we created in marketing, and then, you know, kind of went on this pendulum of marketing, sales, market strategy, sales enablement, and, you know, could bring all that together, to go to a startup and build, you know, bring a new offering to market and then also to create my own consulting company and help provide services to other companies that would allow me to help kind of plug holes along their go to market process, where I've actually done those roles before, or I can kind of bring the perspective of my time in edtech.

Leanna Laskey McGrath  7:08  

Oh, my gosh, I have so many questions.

Julie Kelleher  7:10  

And that was a really long, long story,

Leanna Laskey McGrath  7:13  

I want to ask you so many things about it. I love the idea of it sounds to me, the intentional proximity, I haven't heard that term before. Like when you were describing it, and you said an experiential learning before, like that was coming up for me and what kept coming up for me was just like immersion, putting yourself in all the way to like immersing yourself in whatever topic or whatever culture or whatever field you decided that you wanted to learn more about. And so it sounds like you have used that as your compass or guide of like, what am I most interested in? You know, you've got all these interesting things that you've done all these different opportunities. And obviously, there's a wide range that you could decide from so like, what do you use to decide what you're going to do next?

Julie Kelleher  8:03  

Yeah, that's a great question. And I don't really know, except that the best answer would be what I'm most drawn to in the moment, you know, I can't tell you what I'm going to be interested in, in five years. And I would have never imagined this path that has happened for me so far. My first big career shift, once I entered Ed Tech was within the same company. So I had been in product marketing, I had risen through the ranks, and I, you know, I went from an individual contributor to leading a team and partnering with sales very closely. And then the sales leadership team recruited me to say, hey, we think that you would really love to try to bring what you've learned and what you do in product marketing to a sales role. So that was kind of an opportunity that was brought to me, and I had always been curious, you know, I was always like we do all of this work. And do they even care? Do they even use it? Do they even need it? Is it relevant for them? So that was kind of the first big move. And then, you know, sometimes it was a combination of somebody at another company who I knew really well and respected a lot, who would tell me about what they were doing. And it would be appealing, but you know, sometimes that would come up. And if I didn't feel it, if I didn't feel drawn, then I wouldn't do it. But in edtech, it was mostly driven by the focus areas of the companies at the time. 

Julie Kelleher  9:15  

So I left Blackboard in 2014, to go to an online program management company. And that was a really big topic at the time, that was really pressing for a lot of higher ed institutions. So I don't want to use the term like it was it's a hot theme at the time, but just something that the target audiences were really drawn to and the things that were top priorities for them. Those were things I was drawn to as well. So online program management was one, going to an analytics company. So that was analytics and a startup that was a great opportunity to get proximate to both the startup experience and analytics, which was becoming in high demand across a lot of higher ed institutions. And then in 2022, I went to Dreambox Learning which was a K 12 company, so I'd predominantly been in higher ed. I went to K 12 intentionally because I had found that I'd gotten pretty far away from the learner. I had two little learners at home and seeing the impact of COVID on just education writ large, really had me drawn towards K 12, ed tech and ed tech that really reached the learner. So that that was another one that was really one that I sought out. And, and I'm so glad I did it. I mean, that exceeded my expectations to really kind of marry my work experience with my home experience. And I think that's probably what's going to be the driver for me for at least the next decade while they're their home.

Leanna Laskey McGrath  10:32  

Yeah, yeah, well, it's so interesting, it sounds like learning and curiosity are two of your values and guides of how you're deciding where you want to spend your time and where you want to focus your energy. Next, whenever you said, I don't know, it's like what I'm most drawn to at the moment,  so we talked before about that, we are both Enneagram threes. And for anyone who has not taken the Enneagram there are nine different types. And three happens to be like the super high performer high achiever, always wanting to be successful and recognized for their efforts. And so whenever you said, Whatever I'm drawn to at the moment, I like the three in me, I think was like, oh, that sounds so fun. And also like, oh, my gosh, if I look back, that's very much probably how I've also made my decisions. You said that it was kind of like as a as a three who's like, I think, you know, often we like have a plan and a path, right, that we're going so I guess I'm just curious how that kind of like shows up for you and how you reconcile that with this curiosity?

Julie Kelleher  11:40  

Sure. Yeah. And it's funny that you brought that up, because, you know, there was certainly an intuition component. But I scenario planned it all out before making a big leap big time. And, you know, I'll give you an example. So in 2018, I started my own consulting business, and to get there, like I had been thinking about it for probably eight months. So it was after, so I have two daughters, when the second one came along, that's when i was like I, something has to change, I can't do this level of work, and be the mom that I want to be. And so I knew what I wanted to do. And I figured out how to do it, I mapped it all out. But I still couldn't do it, I had to hire a coach to help me kind of think through it and plan for it. And I had to kind of get my own little personal board of advisors to help, you know, push me along to say that I can get to the other side. So I probably act upon the intuition, but then the action is the planning. It's the planning and the thinking and the doing to then feel really comfortable with the decision. 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  12:39  

Yeah. It's not like, Oh, that looks great. I'm gonna go do that. Drop it everything.

Julie Kelleher  12:44  

Right. 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  12:44  

It's a meticulously planned and analyzed strategy. 

Julie Kelleher  12:51  

Absolutely. 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  12:52  

Love it. And you mentioned the two little learners at home. So tell me more about that when you became a parent and kind of how that impacted you.

Julie Kelleher  13:01  

So they are 10, and almost seven. So I became a mom through adoption. So we had, so that was, it was a, you know, a challenging journey. And, you know, I'm so thankful that we were able to adopt both of our daughters, at birth from different families in different locations. And you know, that in and of itself is a, it's going to be a lifelong journey, and you kind of been helping them. And it's very open, I really wanted to meet the birth parents, I wanted them to choose us. So I could say to my kids one day, they picked us and have some open relationships. So all of that is what we hoped for. And that's, that's kind of how it worked out. And, you know, so I think with that, I've nothing to compare this to right, I have no idea what it would have been like if I had had a child biologically. But for me, I, I just feel so grateful, I feel so grateful that I get to be their mom. And, you know, I feel, you know, this is where the Enneagram three in me is, you know, probably creeps in maybe a little too much around just like how do I plan and prepare to make sure that their life and their kind of development and as they go from concrete to abstract thinking that I'm there to support them and help them kind of develop their own sense of identity. So it's been quite a journey. And it's, you know, just something that I'm grateful for every day. And you know, I get to do this. And it's one of the reasons why I have now twice left a full time job as a executive at an edtech company to to have my own business where I can really have the work life balance that I need. And I want because the way that I look at it, my oldest is going to only be home for probably eight more years. And then my youngest will be home for 12 more years and maybe they'll go to school close by maybe they won't. And that's the time that I won't get back. Like I love it. I love being able to do all the things and you know, I love that I have the opportunity to kind of craft that balance that I need to be able to do it.

Leanna Laskey McGrath  14:55  

And when you were becoming a mom, you started your company you said in 2018, adopted your first daughter in 2014. So like, there's like four years there where you're an executive. How was that working out for you?

Julie Kelleher  15:12  

So I was in a sales role. So I was already working from home. So this was way before you know, working remotely was kind of a new normal. So I was in a sales role. I was working from home, and we had an in home childcare provider. So I didn't feel like I was leaving her every day. And I traveled some, but my territory was in the Northeast, and I was living in DC at the time. So it was just easy to hop on a train, it was mostly day trips. So I didn't feel that like big separation. When our second one came along in 2017, I was at a job where I was commuting every day, I was traveling a lot. And it was a much more demanding, with my first child, I was an individual contributor, second child, executive, multiple hats, commuting and traveling. You know, it was just the tug was so strong. And the tension was so real, that I wasn't able to show up in either role as the person I wanted to be. 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  16:00  

Yeah. What made you decide to go from the individual contributor to the executive role?

Julie Kelleher  16:06  

It was an opportunity to be at a startup, and to help build a sales and marketing function from the ground up. And that was in 2016, I vividly remember being with my daughter, who was probably two at the time, and like telling her that I was going to do this. She didn't understand, right, but I remember telling her that I was going to do this, and telling her that I was a little bit scared. And like I just I vividly remember telling her that we were sitting on my bed, I was telling her this and that, you know that I was worried about that component. I also have a really, really supportive husband. And so you know, he and he didn't travel. So he has helped carry the load, and still does. And, you know, I think that it would have been a very different story, if I kind of had to figure it all out on my own. But I think I mean, that was that was a big shift. And it was hard. I mean, it was really hard. And I stuck with it. I was committed. And that's also why it was really hard for me to step away. And why, you know, it's like, I just felt I felt so tethered and loyal. And I felt so loyal and tethered and kind of this sense of duty, that if I left, what damage would that do to the people that I left behind? And that's where I had to, you know, seek help from others to convince me that we have choice, you know, fortunately we have, we have choice, and we have agency and it's okay to change your mind.

Leanna Laskey McGrath  17:21  

Yeah, that so resonates with me, because I, I too, have left two EdTech executive roles, to start my own coaching business. And especially the second time because my my daughter was a part of my life at that point, she wasn't the first time, I felt so tethered. And it was during COVID. And so it was just this extra layer of, I don't know, interdependency  on each other. And I thought, like, what is going to happen when I leave, you know, to this team that I've built, it was at a tech startup as well. So it was like, I hired everybody, and what is that going to be like for them. And it turned out, and I'm curious to hear how it was for you. But they were all fine. I mean, obviously, when I told them, they were upset, and some of them chose to leave after but a lot of them stayed and did fine at the company. And the first time I left it was post acquisition. And so it was kind of the same thing. Like I was like, I can't leave them. I've hired all these people, and they're depending on me, but I think it's like we always make ourselves the hero in our story, and in everyone else's stories. And maybe that's a three trait or something, but I just felt like I couldn't leave them. And so I probably stayed in both roles a little bit longer than I might have. And I also sought coaching to help me make that decision. But it's hard whenever you have people who are relying on you, who you have brought in and you feel like, you know, you love being around them and you and you want to be there for them. And then you feel like you're kind of like leaving them. 

Julie Kelleher  18:51  

Yeah, that feeling is real. And like, yes, I feel seen just hearing you say that. And I think they you know, going back to the Enneagram three in the planning component, you know, I scenario planned it all out, there were three, I was prepared for three different responses. One response could have been, like, immediately, you know, immediate rejection, like walk out the door dismissal, the second could have been, alright, well, you've got you know, give us two months, or give us two weeks to kind of close everything up, and then you're done. And then the third, which I thought was like never gonna happen, was the, you know, how long can we make this runway? You know, we support you, how long can we make this runway? Could you potentially help us, you know, until we find hire a backfill? And sure enough, that third one was the response that I got, it was totally supportive it was how long can we make this work until we hire a backfill? 

Julie Kelleher  19:39  

And, you know, I should also share that part of the reason that I left too was when we adopted both of our dollar daughters. We worked with an adoption consultant, and she has become a dear friend, and she needed help she needed somebody with business acumen to really help her expand her services. And so that was one of the things that I was leaving for, too, so I was going to consult for her and support her. So that helped me feel comfortable telling the team that I had been so close to, we were in like a make offices space for, you know, the first year and a half I was sharing an office with, you know, with the CEO, and, you know, another senior leader and, you know, just there was this closeness that that happens at a startup that, you know, and I was really worried about, you know, some, some fictitious ending, and it ended up being a really beautiful transition. And, you know, I was able to stay on and help them with projects for quite a while. And, you know, one message I will share for others is, it's really scary when you've never been to the other side, right? If you if you're in a full time role, and you're feeling this tug, and you don't know how to do it, it feels really scary. And it's totally doable. You know, I have actually a quote that I'm looking at on my wall, nothing is particularly hard if you divided into small jobs. 

Julie Kelleher  20:53  

And once I got to the other side, and once I was doing my own thing, and I was you know, helping different companies with different projects, and even serving as like kind of an extension of their team. And in certain cases, I was trying to tell others who felt stuck or felt like they were in the wrong place to just try to motivate them and inspire them that you can change. It's normal to feel tethered. It's normal to feel this commitment, but it's work. It's a job. And it's something that is not a family. So you know, that's probably a debatable topic. But I appreciate the posts that I see in, you know, on LinkedIn, and from other thought leaders around like, your work isn't your family, your job isn't your family. 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  21:28  

Yes. 

Julie Kelleher  21:29  

And you can make friends that feel like family. But if you have a family that you're feeling a tug around. And if you feel like you can't show up for that family, then I want to help empower people and inspire people and help give them even steps and guidance on on how to make that change, if they want to feel like they can bring their best self to their family first.

Leanna Laskey McGrath  21:49  

Yes. I love what you're saying here. And I love how you said about you know that we have choice. And that is a privilege that we that we have. And I think it's so important for us to remember that at different seasons in our lives, we're going to need and want different things. And that's totally normal and okay. I loved working at startups, before I had a baby, not so much whenever I had a baby, it just, you know, it was not a good fit for me to try and work 60-80 hours a week, when I was also trying to like sustain this human's life and also be present and actually enjoy some time with her. So there's like that Marshall Goldsmith quote that says What Got You Here Won't Get You There. And I think that it's just so true that like it in these different stages of our lives, we're going to need different things. And it doesn't mean that there's anything wrong with that. Or that, you know, there's something wrong with us that we, quote unquote, can't do what we used to do. I think a lot of times, we're like comparing ourselves to a previous version of ourselves. But the reality is, is we just have different needs and responsibilities. And we need to kind of look at that holistically and make a decision and whether that's to go out on our own. I mean, that is not for everybody, it might be to find another company that is more family friendly, or more open to working reasonable hours, or flexible hours, or hybrid or remote. That just might be a different need that we have at this stage in our lives that we didn't have in the past.

Julie Kelleher  23:26  

I completely agree with that. I think that the way that I frame it for myself is that motherhood changed my priorities. And I was so driven. I remember when I was working at a nonprofit, where I mean, you were not expected to work more than 40 hours a week, I would I would bring work home, I would come up with all these different things. And I had a good friend of mine, who I lived with at the time, she was like, I don't understand why you're always working. Right? So I was, you know, I love how you describe yourself like recovering workaholic, you know, I'm trying to get to the path to recovery. But there's, you know, there's this drive, there's this constant drive, and thankfully, motherhood helped me slow it down a little bit. And it still keeps me in check. My kids are great mirrors for me. You know, so you're kind of talking about the, you know, it's okay for our priorities to change. And in different seasons of life, that comparison spiral is real, right? And with things like LinkedIn and other things, you know, it's like, oh, you see a peer? Or do you see where they are? And you wonder that just has to that has to be a feeling that gets managed. And whether that means like, don't check social media, or just realize, hey, no, you you chose a different path. I would say probably that tendency for comparison was worse when I was younger, but kind of age and motherhood and just seasons of life and experience has helped me feel much more comfortable with where I am and the decisions I've made and, you know, knowing that you can try something and you can fail and you can keep moving on and like you know, failure isn't an endpoint. It's actually it's how we learn and grow.

Leanna Laskey McGrath  24:51  

Yeah, absolutely. And you attribute that to growth and motherhood, your ability to tolerate more failure. 

Julie Kelleher  24:59  

Yeah, I think so, yeah, growth, motherhood, experience age. I mean, there's just things that I care I don't care as much about, which is great. I wish that my 20 year old self had this level of like, that not so important anymore.

Leanna Laskey McGrath  25:16  

So there's a video I saw of Oprah, where she said, if she could give her 20 year old self, any advice, it would be to slow down, all the good things are coming. And you don't need to rush to get there. And when I saw that, I thought, but would Oprah be where she is today, if her 20 year old self had slowed down? I do think that there is kind of like these seasons of life, there's something to them, where maybe my 20s, I hustled, I worked really, really hard. And it got me to a great place in my 30s and 40s, that I'm really happy about. And if I hadn't done that, if I had believed that I could slow down at that point, I don't know if I would be where I am now. And I don't know if I would be as as happy about where I am. What is interesting that I want to talk a little bit more about is like when you said motherhood helped me slow down, I thought, again, kind of as a three, like, how does that feel? And was that just like, Alright, I'm gonna slow down and like, stop caring so much about what everyone thinks and stop comparing myself to other people or like, what was that process like for you, of shifting away from that?

Julie Kelleher  26:29  

Motherhood helped me slow down on I think on the work front, on the drive for the work front like it. And I think it was out of necessity, like, there just weren't enough hours in the day. And the demands of these little people were so great. And I'm and I have a dog too. And she starts to act just like the kids when she needs my attention, like, but I feel like I slowed down, but others around me. It's funny, you know, everybody can be a mirror if you if you let them. You know, my, my husband once shared with me. He's like, I feel he's like I feel guilty, relaxing around you. And even we were just on a family trip out in California. And I had dinner with former colleagues who are now forever friends. And one of them who had never met my husband said, What's it like to live with Julie? I mean, are there just lists all the time, and I was like, that's still how I am? And I even had people at work telling me like, if I was getting your burnout, they were like, your 80% is fine. Why don't you try 80% or 75%, and people are still gonna think it's 100. So I mean, I think I've slowed down. And I've been intentional about slowing down on the work front. And maybe others didn't really notice. But and when I say slow down, it means like, I'm dedicating less time and less time is probably still more than 40 hours a week. But it's not 60 or 80. And it's not waking up every day and thinking about it. And now my lists that I keep are more around family household, work is in there. But you know, there are other things that are that are more important. Like, I've got to pick up my kids at camp in, you know, an hour and 11 minutes. And I told my daughter, I'd be the first in the car line. You know, that's what I'm thinking about first, instead of the call that I'm going to have at three. 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  28:03  

Yeah. 

Julie Kelleher  28:03  

I'll think about that afterwards.

Leanna Laskey McGrath  28:06  

Yeah, and when you say slow down, I want to dig into that a little bit more. Because, like you said, it means that you work less, does it mean that your pace is different?

Julie Kelleher  28:16  

I don't think my pace is different. I think that it is I think that my ability to prioritize has gotten better. And things that I used to care about, like I used to think that every email needed to be responded to or just things like that, that. And I remember I actually remember when I was a really Junior product marketer at Blackboard, and there was a very senior leader who came back from vacation. And he said that he just deleted his inbox. And he was like, yeah, if they need me, they'll email me back. And I was like, I couldn't even imagine doing that. But now I have a little bit more of that mindset. I'm like, you know, I'm skimming. If something's pressing, I will get to it. If somebody needs me, they know how to reach me another way. So I think it's being a better prioritizer, if that's a word. And instead of slowing down pace, maybe the better way to say it is I'm compartmentalizing better, and I'm setting better boundaries.

Leanna Laskey McGrath  29:05  

Yeah. But for me, what it feels like is less hustley, like less, like when I'm working, there's like a pressure to like, go, go go. And it's kind of like that underlying anxiety. For me, that's, I would say, like a shift with with motherhood. And it wasn't an easy shift that took time. But I personally work faster and more efficiently because my priorities are so clear, and my boundaries are very clear. And it's like, this is my little chunk of work time for the day. And I need to get these 20 things done. And previously that those 20 things might have taken four hours but I only have an hour and a half today. So I've got to figure out how to make that work. And make sure that I get all of this stuff done so that I can be present whenever I'm with my daughter and enjoy that time. When I pick her up from camp I can hear all about it and not be like half listening to her and half thinking about my to do list for the afternoon, or the meeting coming up or right, like whatever it is, it's more about setting almost mindset boundaries around at this time and you said compartmentalizing, it's like, at this time, I am thinking about this. And I'm doing this. And then whenever that is done, I'm going to think about this thing and do this and stop. Like, like I end thinking about the other thing. Is that what it's like for you?

Julie Kelleher  30:26  

It is it is, and I have a I've had to become a ruthless, like ruthless prioritization has had to become something that is just part of my DNA. It's hard. It's not natural. I mean, there are a million projects that I want to do. And, you know, I just look around, like, if I, you know, I'll go in the backyard, and I'll just have my cup of coffee, and my husband will come out. And he's like, I can tell, I can tell that you're thinking about projects, you're thinking about things that you want to do. And, and I've had to just turn those off. And, and I try a lot of different productivity things, productivity hacks, one recently that I've been trying is like, what are the three things that I want to do today? Or what are the three things I want to do this week, and you know, I'd say I'm decent at it. But one thing that I do is I just, you know, I, I have to write it down. So it doesn't just monopolize my thoughts. And I have like a running Evernote list that is just called next day, I might write it last night, I might write more on it today. And nothing's shipped. But as long as I know, it's there. As long as I know that the thing that I need to do is there and I always put whatever, you know, new time sensitive thing comes in at the top. And that really helps me it helps me clear the clutter. And it helps me compartmentalize so then I can be present and be like, yeah, when I'm in the car with them, when I'm home with them, I'm not going to be thinking about all these other things. Now one of those thoughts might come in my head, and I need to go to my phone and write it down. That's probably like the hack that works best for me. Just gotta get it out of there. And then I don't keep obsessively thinking about it.

Leanna Laskey McGrath  31:54  

Yeah, yeah, I love that. I think I do something very similarly, I have like my running list. And then what I've been doing recently is every week, I like close out the list at the end of the week. And I'm like, here's everything that I did. And then I take all the tasks that are still unchecked, and I move them into the next week, but I like review each one. And I'm like, is this really a priority? Like, do I really need to get this done? And a lot of times, like, if something's coming along for the ride, week, after week after week, I have to really check in and say, like, do I need to do this? Is this important? Is this a priority? Is it something I can outsource? Or can it fall off the list so that my list doesn't keep getting infinitely longer and longer and longer? 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  32:33  

Yeah, I have physical lists, too. I would say I have a list problem. But I'm but I'm getting better at giving myself grace, when I don't accomplish everything on the list. 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  32:43  

How do you let go of the things like how do you look at the list and say I'm okay only accomplishing three things today, like not getting the other 20 or whatever done?

Julie Kelleher  32:54  

Again, going back to like, where my boundaries are. And you know, so I like recently was at this career inflection point I had, you know, I took about kind of six weeks off, and I was probably at burnout or very close to burnout. And so I went on this just kind of like, new personal tune up, like what are all the things that I know, are really good for me that fell to the wayside over the past two years. And, you know, started with sleep, like I need sleep and my nutrition it had fallen to the wayside. So you know, reintroducing really healthy habits on the nutrition front, and exercise, like really intentional exercise, not just walking the dog and saying that that was exercise. And then really studying things like about myself, like, I was like, I want to figure out this next chapter from like, the inside out. And so I listen to more podcasts about the Enneagram, I read some books about the Enneagram, I spoke with friends about the Enneagram. And when you and I, we connected about that, you know, I think it just helped me realize, like, I gotta let go of things, like there are things that you just have to let go of you can't hold on to everything. Like that was also a source of stress for me. 

Julie Kelleher  33:57  

And I did a yoga teacher training a couple years ago. And not because I wanted to be a teacher, but more because I wanted to just deepen my understanding. I've done the physical practice for about 20 years, but really wanted to deepen my understanding of all of the limbs of yoga. And there are these eight things called the yamas and niyamas. And they're, you know, they're kind of ways of living. And there's one of them that I always go back to, and it's aparigraha, which can mean a lot of different things depending on where you look it up. But it can mean non gripping, it can mean not holding on to things and that can be in a physical practice, right? Like where are you holding on to something when you're trying to do a certain posture? You know, I also think about it in daily life like what am I hope like, what am I gripping on to what am I holding on to if it's with a relationship if it's some position that I want to have in like, a debate, is it feeling like I have to accomplish all these things on this list that nobody else is judging me on except for myself? Like, that is probably like the biggest theme that I, you know, I have it written on my whiteboard. It's a reminder to myself and when I, you know, pause and reflect when I'm feeling you know, kind of tense about things. I realized, like, there are things that I need to apply aparigraha to, what do I let go of, what do I loosen the grip on? And that helps me too.

Leanna Laskey McGrath  35:11  

Yeah. Yeah, I love that. So it's bringing up this thing that happened to me a couple of years ago, while I was doing yoga, actually, I think I was it was at the end, I was in Shavasana. And like, when people say they like hear a voice or, or something, I think I've always been like, a little skeptical, like, where's that voice coming from, but I very clearly this is the only time in my life it happened. But I very clearly heard a voice say let go. It was like a loud it was it was my voice. And it was like a loud whisper. And it just was like, let go. And I was like, really taken aback by it, you know, I was really impacted by it, because that's never happened to me before. But I think about that all the time of somewhere, whether it's like my deep inner knowing, or God or whatever, whoever is talking to me in that quiet moment is like reminding me to let go. And I think that, like you talked about the 80%. Whenever I gave my notice to my CEO, he talked about like the 80/20 rule. And I think the reality is, is that like, that is not something that we are taught. And I remember when he said it, I felt icky. I was like, No, I can't only do 80%. Like I need to do 100%. And it's like we have an expectation of ourselves to do 100% in all the areas of our lives. And it is really, really impossible to do if we want to do it like holistically well. I had to let go of a lot of the expectations of myself to be able to feel like I was doing everything well enough. Because otherwise like trying to go 100% over here, I was neglecting over there. And then I'd go over there and do 100% and I let something drop over here. And so I think it's like a recalibration. And I love what you're saying about that letting go, letting go of those expectations of that pace, that hustle that anxiety that's pushing us forward and trusting that we're still going to get things done, and that we're still going to be able to feel good about ourselves. I know that was really hard for me. I don't know about you if like that letting go practice because I was like, Well, how am I still going to achieve? How am I still going to get anything done if I'm not like constantly worried and anxious about it?

Julie Kelleher  37:29  

Yeah, the practice of letting go is going to be a practice for my whole life. 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  37:33  

Oh yeah. 

Julie Kelleher  37:33  

And you know, the yoga instructor who led our training, she's amazing. And she would, she would always tell us she's like yoga really is the practice of remembering, R E dash membering, we are coming back to ourselves, we are coming back to ourselves every time. And that can happen, like you said, in Shavasana. It can happen sitting outside and just like noticing the birds, noticing nature, like letting go of the list that is running through the head. That's the act of letting go and it's reconnecting with yourself and remembering with yourself. And I think that's where the grace comes in. Because if you're disconnected from yourself, and you're hustling, and you're making the lists, and you're trying to run through everything, and don't get me wrong, like motherhood has its own set of lists. And, you know, I went from being a daughter and a sister to, you know, many, many other roles. And I think that it's just figuring out where the prioritization lies, again, the letting go is going to be a lifelong struggle and the lifelong practice, I should say, a lifelong practice, and so will giving myself grace and giving others grace.

Leanna Laskey McGrath  37:47  

As an Enneagram three, who has a practice of letting go like, how are you feeling now about where you're at with motherhood and balancing and your career and everything?

Julie Kelleher  38:43  

It's interesting, I was actually listening to a podcast yesterday with where they were interviewing, like the Suzanne Stabile, the Enneagram expert and, you know, she was talking about how the work that the threes need to do so every human has these intelligences of thinking, feeling and doing, and threes have a tendency to think and do, think and do, think and do, and the work that threes need to do is the feeling. That really struck me and I actually think that parenthood is helping me do that work of the feeling. I devour parenting podcasts, I buy all the books, I don't read them, but I skim them and you know, you know, that's a lot of the doing, it's the thinking and the doing, but to be like to be the mom that my kids need, I have to feel and I have to help them hold their feelings. And I have to share with them how I'm feeling and how maybe why, like why I act a certain way was because of how I was feeling at the time. And so it's helping me name feelings that I didn't you know, I never named before, it's helping broaden my understanding of the spectrum of feelings. And you know, we we're rewatching inside out right now together because we're gonna go watch inside out two. And, you know, movies like that, that help me do the work that I know now know I need to do. I had no idea that I was only thinking doing thinking, doing thinking doing and suppressing feelings. But now that I know that that's my work like I'm gonna do my work. 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  40:01  

Yeah, I think I always knew, but I was just okay with it. Because I didn't want to have to deal with those messy feelings thing. Yeah, thinking and doing there's a lot more control in, right. And I think that's something that threes love is to have feel like we have control. And we can control our actions and are doing and in some ways control our thinking. But the feeling part, I think feels really out of control. Whenever I coach fellow three's, something I hear is like, I feel like if I go down that rabbit hole, like I'll just get sucked in and totally consumed. It's like this interesting thought era that we have that like, we can't feel something without it completely consuming us because we are so unpracticed in the art of feeling.

Julie Kelleher  40:48  

Absolutely. And I actually think that I mean, yoga is a great practice to help us reconnect and remember and engage with those feelings. And I mean, I know so many stories of people who, after a guided class, that when they were in kind of the final posture of shavasana, laying on the ground, where they just, you know, tears just started streaming. And yeah, that's happened to me a couple of times, too. And it was, maybe it was something the instructor said maybe it was something that happened in my life that I hadn't actually taken the time to feel, I'm glad that I found yoga as a, as a practice for me. And I mean, again, like the first decade was purely the physical aspect of it. But you know, really, now it's the how do I infuse it in my daily life? And what tools do I have from there, and I really do now that that can be just reminders for me, like I can remind myself aparigraha, like you've heard yourself, say, let it let go. You know, there's another one, this concept of pade pade, which is step by step, like if something feels too big, just step by step, it's okay. Like, if you don't know what the end looks like, but you know, you want to get there, just remember, you can take little steps, little steps, so that as I say those two things out loud to those, I also realized that this helped me slow down, they helped me kind of ground myself, recenter myself, and it's what I know is best for me. And I also know that I can get easily tethered and kind of swirled up in a demanding job. And so kind of finding that balance and keeping that balance will also be a lifelong practice. 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  42:12  

And from what you've learned, in terms of moving to more of this orientation of prioritizing of setting clear boundaries of feeling things instead of only thinking and doing, what would you share with others who are maybe on that journey as well, that might be helpful? 

Julie Kelleher  42:34  

I would recommend finding something that helps you understand yourself. And so it could be a coach, it could be the Enneagram. Like I just I mean, I was drawn to that I I found that really accessible, really interesting. And there's a lot of great resources out there. But there are other kinds of assessments out there too, like strengths finders desk, it just depends. I mean, maybe you're in a workplace where you have great resources that they could conduct that for you. I would say, you know, start from the inside out, figure out who you are and what you want. And what drives you what motivates you. And also think about, you know, I think long term planning is really important. I heard something recently 4000 weeks, that's as many weeks that the average adult in the US will have in their lifetime. That doesn't sound like very many, or you know, kind of thinking through things. If you're a parent, and your kids are still at home, when are they going to leave? And how much time do you have with them? And how does that impact your prioritization? So that's probably three themes. If I were to kind of recap them one, inside out, find something that helps you understand you and your motivations and your desires first, then kind of look through the lens of time, like what are these seasons of time that you know you have ahead of you? Is it parenthood? Is it something you want to accomplish by the time you're 60? Who knows? And then prioritize from there.

Leanna Laskey McGrath  43:54  

I love it. I love it. As a fellow lifelong learner, I always love hearing people's perspectives. We're on similar journeys. And so kind of hearing about your experience in that journey and what strategies you have found helpful and what you've learned along the way, I just love hearing about it. Is there anything else that you would love to share before we part ways? 

Julie Kelleher  44:15  

I just want to thank you, this has been such a fun opportunity. I'm so glad that I got to meet you and uh, one thing I would share is, never discount the value of human connection and your network. So and I'll share why. I met Leanna through you know, somebody who I had worked with she, Emily-Rose Barry, I'll throw her name out there. So she had she had done some consulting work for a company that I was working with. And you know, we probably had a few engagements, but I loved her style. I really connected with her. And so as I was kind of rethinking where I wanted to go next in my career earlier this year, I reached out to her as somebody in my network and I just I kind of cast a wide net to my network, people I hadn't talked to for 15 years, people who I had just maybe had a few encounters with and it is amazing what one conversation with somebody who maybe only an acquaintance, or maybe somebody that was a really strong friend or colleague 15 years ago, it's amazing what reconnecting with people can lead to.

Leanna Laskey McGrath  45:09  

I love that. Yeah. And I think with the intention of true connection, is where I find personally for me, the really good stuff, I just really remember enjoying this person, and I really want to reconnect with them. Because I would I would so agree with that. I've met so many amazing people in my life, and I, I love reconnecting with them. And I love having conversations on this podcast. Honestly, this podcast gives me an excuse to have these great conversations and record them, for others to hear. So thank you so, so much for this wonderful conversation. I can't wait to share it with everybody. And I really appreciate you sharing all about you and your journey and where you're at now, and all the things you've learned along the way. So thank you so, so much, Julie.

Julie Kelleher  45:56  

This has been really great. Thank you so much, Leanna. 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  45:59  

Absolutely. All right. Well, thank you so much, everybody, and hope you all have a great week. 

Leanna Laskey McGrath  46:08  

Thanks so much for tuning in to the executive coach for moms podcast. Please like, subscribe or follow the show so you'll be notified when the next episode is available. I hope you'll join me again next time. Take care.