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In this first episode of the Transition to Motherhood Series, Leanna is joined once again by Andrea Palmer, this time for Andrea to share her story of becoming a mother. Andrea gets vulnerable, recounting the decision to have children, her heartbreaking loss, and ultimately the arrival of her beautiful daughter. The discussion explores the importance of support for new mothers in the workplace, the rewards of balancing work, family, and health, and the obstacles of recovering after pregnancy while propelling one’s career. Andrea also shares about her journey through postpartum depression and anxiety, and discusses the value of evaluating and strengthening your core values to serve your partnership as well as your parenthood. The Transition to Motherhood Series highlights the challenges and the beauty of becoming a mother as a career focused, success driven, achievement oriented woman.
Full transcript available here.
Connect with Leanna here.
Connect with Andrea here.
Revisit Leanna's interview with Andrea in part 1, part 2, and part 3.
Leanna Laskey McGrath 0:08
Welcome to the executive coach for moms podcast where we support women who are attempting to find balance and joy, while simultaneously leading people at work and at home. I'm your host Leanna Laskey McGrath, former tech exec turned full time mom, recovering perfectionist and workaholic, and certified executive coach.
Leanna Laskey McGrath 0:30
Hi, everyone, welcome to the Transition to Motherhood Series. I am so excited to share this with you, I decided to create this special series because a lot of women in my orbit are having babies right now. And I remember whenever I was pregnant, and about to become a new mother, I listened to podcasts all the time, and particularly ones where women were telling their stories. One of my favorites was The Birth Hour podcast because it was women telling their birth stories. I just felt so much more empowered, when I knew what to expect. And I heard from people who had done it before me, and telling me what really happened. So that's why I wanted to create this series, I really feel that motherhood widens our range, we experienced the highest highs and the lowest lows, it's just a much wider range than, at least for me what I ever experienced before. And I think a lot of times, we only talk about the highs. And that's really what you see on social media is all of the highlights and all of the wonderful parts of motherhood. And I think that's so wonderful to see. And also, I think it's important that we are open and honest about the full range of the spectrum. And so in this series, we will be talking very openly about some of the challenges of motherhood, particularly for career focused achievement oriented women.
Leanna Laskey McGrath 2:12
So the first three episodes are going to be interviews with women who are newer moms, they were all very established in their careers before they became mothers. So these are all executive moms. And then the second part of this series falls in May, which is maternal mental health month. And we will be talking to some experts and authors on the topics of postpartum depression, postpartum anxiety, and just some of the other challenges of that transition to motherhood. I want to acknowledge that the women in this series are all executive moms with means for childcare with partners who contribute with remote work situations and flexible environments. And that was also my situation when I transitioned to motherhood. And I felt kind of an extra layer of shame and disappointment in myself that I didn't feel that I was doing a good job. Even though I had these circumstances, that should have made it easier for me, even though I had set myself up. And had created a really ideal situation. And I know that not everybody has that. And I think it's important to acknowledge. And I think it's important to acknowledge that even when we have support, and we've set ourselves up well, and we've prepared as much as we can, it's just still a really hard thing. And so if you're feeling that in your transition to motherhood, or if you felt it in your transition to motherhood, I just want to validate that it's just hard.
Leanna Laskey McGrath 3:49
Also, if you know a new mom, or someone who is about to become a new mother, please share this series with them. My goal is really to help and empower more women to kind of know what to expect, know what to look out for. And also know that they're not alone if they're feeling a certain way, or if they're experiencing certain things. I just think it's so important that we talk about these things. And if you have made that transition to motherhood at some point in your life, I would love to hear from you about what resonated for you or what you also experienced if it was the same or different than what you're going to hear about in these stories. So thank you so much for tuning in. And now on to our episode.
Leanna Laskey McGrath 4:38
Hi, everyone, welcome back to the show. Thank you so much for being here today. I have a very special guest and I am so excited to hear from her myself and for you all to hear from her. And her name is Andrea Palmer. Hi, Andrea.
Andrea Palmer 4:54
Hello, everybody. Good morning.
Leanna Laskey McGrath 4:56
Andreea you might remember joined me for some of my very early episodes, so episodes four through six, back almost a year ago, well, we recorded almost a year ago and will be in they were published back in June of 2023. And she actually interviewed me about my story of who I was as a professional before becoming a mother. And then what happened whenever I made that transition. And so with this theme of transition to motherhood, I really wanted to bring Andrea on and turn the tables and hear about her story because Andrea is a newer mother. And she has been a tech executive like myself, and has gone through a transition and acquisition at work, right around the same time that she was going through a transition at home. So I'm so excited to hear all about it. So Andrea, can you start off by introducing yourself just telling us all a little bit more about you?
Andrea Palmer 5:58
Yes, absolutely. And thank you so much for for having me here. I am located in Buffalo, New York, I live here with my partner, and our eight month old daughter. I, as you mentioned, have been a tech executive, and over the last few years have started at a company to help them kind of start off and scale up and ultimately move through an acquisition process. But I did stay through after that acquisition for quite a while, maybe a year or two. And so you're right, the timing of all of these things in life can be very interesting as we work through them together. But yeah, I'm really looking forward to kind of having an honest conversation about my experience. And I'm sure many other people's experiences as well, I can't imagine mine is incredibly unique.
Leanna Laskey McGrath 6:45
Well, I am curious about Andrea, pre baby. So I know it's been eight months. Take me back to what were you like, as a professional? Like, what is your relationship with work? How did you like to work? Back in those days? And then I'll be curious to hear what it's like now, if it's changed, if it's the same?
Andrea Palmer 7:06
A very interesting question, I am very much a type A person, I've always been very kind of dedicated to my career and to working, I've enjoyed it, I've produced results, it's been an important part of my identity. But I think as I got older, even before I became pregnant, or was even thinking about having a baby, I realized that I had to establish a more healthy relationship with my work, which included more healthy boundaries. And ultimately, I felt I needed to separate out my identity from my work, that I was tying too much of my identity to not even just necessarily my title, right, but my contributions or what people my interactions in those space, and that it took me many years to get to this place, but to realize that I am much more than my productivity, and my contributions to my employer. And I guess, unfortunately, through some bad experiences, and I'm sure people have experienced that, putting work first was not what was right for me. And that maybe isn't the case for everybody. But knowing that at the end of the day, your life, your family, your value, you could not work for a company, suddenly one day, right, you could quit, they could fire you something could happen in your life. And actually, that is what happened to me, I got let go from a position where I was a top performer, a huge contributor, it felt like it wasn't really, it didn't make sense that I wasn't working for the company anymore. And while that was very traumatic for me, and I carried that baggage for many years, I think it ultimately helped me to establish healthier boundaries with my personal life and my work relationship. And that while it was important, it wasn't necessarily who I am.
Leanna Laskey McGrath 8:45
Yeah. So when you say like, it wasn't who I am, I guess then, of course, my coach head goes to like, who are you? And tell me more about that?
Andrea Palmer 8:56
Right. That's the second part of the question. I don't even know if I'm fully there yet. But I think it's, I've always felt a very strong desire for kind of peace. And I guess that ties back to mental health. I've definitely struggled with kind of anxiety throughout my life. And I think certain work situations, especially high stress, I'm in sales, and I lead sales team, so that automatically comes with that stress it feels like. I've always kind of been seeking that like inner peace and that serenity even despite all of the environmental factors, but I best for life. You know, I love just seeing people for who they are and developing relationships and being outside and playing in the dirt and, you know, kind of running around so yeah, I guess I just think that life is really meant to be enjoyed, and I have a little magnet on my refrigerator, but it says To hell with anything that doesn't make me happy. And I'm like, Yeah, I need to reinvigorate that mantra.
Leanna Laskey McGrath 9:53
Yeah, yeah. Well, there are lots of things you do that do make you happy, right? You do gardening. That's not the right word for it right? You are like, super gardener.
Andrea Palmer 10:06
...run a greenhouse. But yeah. I'm not a Master Gardener. The Master Gardeners listening to this will be like, No, but I do enjoy plants. And yes, we run a greenhouse. So we have a lot of fun playing in the dirt.
Leanna Laskey McGrath 10:20
Yeah, do a lot of like sports type activities, or you did I don't know if that's still the case.
Andrea Palmer 10:26
Yeah, running soccer. Yeah, just trying to be outside and travel, you know, which also was part of it too, in deciding to become a parent is that concept of, for me, at least, what you're going to have to give up and sacrifice. And I think some people, you know, they're born with that kind of innate desire to be a parent. And I don't think I had that. I think that I was very satisfied with my life, and would have been probably perfectly fine not having a child. But I knew it was very important to my partner, and that he was meant to become a father, you know, he, I think would have been okay, if I had said, I don't want to do this. But I kind of knew that he ultimately wouldn't truly be fully satisfied, you know? And I guess that's part of sacrifice, too, sacrifice being in a relationship. I mean, ultimately, you look back, and I don't view all of this as a sacrifice. But the truth is, as a parent, and especially as a mother, you do have to sacrifice.
Leanna Laskey McGrath 11:30
Yeah, that's interesting. So how do you feel about kind of your decision to move forward with having a child?
Andrea Palmer 11:38
I mean, ultimately, it's wonderful. It's great, right? I love my daughter, I have actually really enjoyed the experience of becoming a mother, which kind of surprised me. I never worried about being a good mom. But it was kind of all of the other factors, right? The things you give up the loss of self, I had concerns about my mental health and lack of sleep, which I knew were important to me to maintain a healthy balance. And I would I would never give any of that up. I don't think most parents would say, oh, no, I'd go back to pre kids, right? Like, it changes your, your mindset and your priorities. But I think a lot of that reflection on the front end, and kind of establishing what was important to me, what I knew I would need in that postpartum space. And even you know, being pregnant, really helped me to have what I think are fairly successful outcomes.
Andrea Palmer 11:38
So I really, like I said, enjoyed it more than I thought I would, I am loving kind of witnessing life, like all of these little small things that are probably kind of cliche when you hear new parents are like, Oh, look, people, their parents, or you know, whatever. It's really fun to watch all of these small little changes day over day or week over week. And I think that that has had a big impact on me as a professional and ultimately what my priorities are. I think I was getting a little burned out by work and my career. And it's okay to just focus for a chapter or two to prioritize and be present.
Leanna Laskey McGrath 13:12
Yeah.
Andrea Palmer 13:13
You know, I didn't want to, I discovered that I didn't want to be spread so thin that I felt like I wasn't doing anything to the level that I would be satisfied with it.
Leanna Laskey McGrath 13:23
Yeah, I definitely want to talk more about that. But tell me about so you decided, we're gonna go ahead and try. What was that process like?
Andrea Palmer 13:34
So yeah, what we decided I wouldn't even call it trying, we decided that we were going to pull the goalie. I was gonna have my IUD removed, to kind of see what happens, like, in a way, have a little bit of control over it. Because you know, I guess to say, I'm ready. I wasn't gonna say that. But it actually happened a lot more quickly than I had anticipated, which was kind of a little bit of a shock, a little abrupt, I didn't expect to have that lifestyle change so quickly, and to have to give up the things that, you know, I really like to do, whether it's wine, or the hot tub or skiing, you know, it just felt like for me, there was a very, like I said, abrupt change. And that wasn't the case for my partner, right? He could still do all of these things that he wanted to do. And while he is an incredibly supportive, husband and person, it's just not the same. So trying to like navigate that new process for me while also not being resentful of him. I did find to be very difficult in the beginning for that first pregnancy.
Leanna Laskey McGrath 14:44
Yeah.
Andrea Palmer 14:45
And then we found out that our baby wasn't healthy. And that was a whole separate set of experiences and trauma. We did ultimately lose that baby which was obviously a difficult experience. And I know that many parents have to go through that. I don't think we really talk about it enough as a society. But I did find that in being open about sharing my experience a lot of people come out of the woodwork and shared theirs or felt comfortable talking about it, because someone else had experienced it. And I just think that historically, the conversation is changing, but that people have had to suffer in silence, right? Because it's not kind of like an accepted conversation.
Leanna Laskey McGrath 15:34
Right. Right. You carried that baby for quite some time.
Andrea Palmer 15:38
Yeah, almost 19 or 20 weeks.
Leanna Laskey McGrath 15:41
Wow. So like, halfway?
Andrea Palmer 15:43
Yeah. And it was really hard. I mean, I don't know how much information is is too much to share. But it was so conflicting, because you're going through this process of not knowing and you have this, your child growing inside of you. But at the same time, my brain didn't want to, like let myself accept that or bond with the human inside of me, because I ultimately knew that it wasn't going to be the outcome that we had hoped for. Right? So I felt this this shift pull that no one can prepare you for even if you talk to somebody who's been through an experience that's similar. I'm sure you have to just experience it or I had to experience it for myself of this juxtaposition of, Yeah, I mean, it was really difficult.
Leanna Laskey McGrath 16:29
Yeah. Yeah, I have kind of like, I want to embrace this. But also, I know, it's how it's going to end.
Andrea Palmer 16:37
Yeah. And there was other kind of, I would say, complexities when it comes to health care that is available to us. And politics. I mean, there's ultimately what I guess comes down to some might call it health care, some might call it politics, but trying to navigate that space, and not just for me morally, as a person and what I believed in and what decisions my partner and I were making for our family, but what we were able to do or allowed to do, you know, and we live in New York, and we ultimately had to travel almost two hours to receive the health care that we needed. So trying to navigate that and waiting and scheduling appointments. And just it all was traumatic. And I think the process made an already extremely emotional experience even more difficult.
Leanna Laskey McGrath 17:31
Yeah. And thank God, you live in New York. But also, I think it's it's always so hard to think about, what if, right? Like, what if you had lived in another state? Or what about women in other states who don't have access to the health care that they need?
Andrea Palmer 17:45
Access to the health care, the privilege to be able to have the resources to get myself to facilities to be able to take the time off of work? I mean, I felt extremely fortunate in hindsight, with the support that I had in my network, and even people who have a different value system than me, I did find to be still incredibly supportive of our situation and our decision. And I kind of framed it as like, If you love me, you will show compassion, right? This isn't about a debate on our value systems, it's, this is what my family is going through. And thank you for being there for me.
Leanna Laskey McGrath 18:22
Yeah. So as you move through that traumatic experience, what does it look like from there in terms of family planning? And do I want to get pregnant again, do what you know, like, how is that navigating that for you?
Andrea Palmer 18:38
It was interesting, I think, overall, it really forced me to think much, much deeper about becoming a parent, and why you want to become a parent in the first place. And I don't even want to say success, right? But what does that look like? Is it raising a child to be independent one day? Is it no matter what? And so we really had to kind of grapple with that. And what if this isn't in the cards for us? How far are we willing to go to bring the child into the world? Many, many people have to go through IVF. And the stress that that puts on bodies. Many people have to go through adoption processes or you know, research, though, so how far did we want to go to expand our family? And I think ultimately, we decided that we did want to try again. But we were going to give ourselves some space to heal. And that ultimately, if it didn't work out, that would be okay with us, that we were happy with who we were as our little family with our dogs. And that is, you know, in a way what's meant to be, which I think I'm so grateful that my partner and I were on the same page about this because I could just see that if you have varying opinions on any of this, right, it could be extremely stressful on a marriage or on a relationship. So I'm just very grateful that my partner and I could talk through these things and be open and honest with, you know, at the end your core value systems, right? Do they align? Are we really willing to give and take? So we decided to wait. And we ultimately had our baby exactly one year later. So we waited. And I don't know, I guess I'm a words person. I'm not a math person. But it ultimately worked out, I would say, you know, obviously pretty well, for us, we have a healthy, baby. And that is at the end of the day, what is important.
Leanna Laskey McGrath 20:26
Yeah. So how was that pregnancy for you? Kind of having had that traumatic experience to that? Did that carry over at all into that pregnancy? And you said, like you had dealt with anxiety for a long time. And so I would imagine, you know, having lost a baby on top of just normal anxiety and being pregnant, and all the hormones that go along with it, that that might bring some extra challenge or stress to it. Was that the case for you? Or what was it like for you?
Andrea Palmer 20:56
Yeah, it certainly did. I think especially in the beginning, it felt like we were in Purgatory, just kind of waiting. And it was a similar experience of, I don't want to get too excited, right? Because we don't know. So until we got, you know, those blood tests back, we didn't know, and the type of genetic abnormality that our baby had was more likely to happen again, than if it had never happened in the first place. So knowing that our risk was high, and also I'm, I'm using air quotes here, geriatric, which, by the way, is a bit ridiculous. Now 36, I was 35 the first time also adds another layer of complexity to being high risk, and I don't feel high risk, you know, I'm healthy. I'm, I would say young.
Leanna Laskey McGrath 21:42
Active.
Andrea Palmer 21:43
Active, exactly. But it's funny that we still have that little asterix on our chart once we reach a certain age. So yes, it felt like we were in a bit of a waiting game. And until we got positive results back from the blood tests, which you can't do until a certain time period. We're just waiting, you know, we didn't want to tell anybody, we didn't want to get too excited ourselves. But once we found out obviously, it was a huge relief. But even that process was, you know, they they drew my blood. And then there was a big snowstorm that hit Buffalo. So the blood never got picked up. So I'm waiting three weeks for the results. Relief comes in, oh, we never got your blood sample, you have to do it again. And I was just like, come on medical system. Like couldn't somebody have told me three weeks ago that my blood never got picked up, and you need to come in for a redraw.
Andrea Palmer 22:32
And it did feel kind of eerily similar to the first experience where it was like, you know, blood tests. And then you have to wait X amount of time, we had to do an amniocentesis, which was a bit of a traumatic experience in and of itself, because for the first time, you're actually seeing this baby on the screen that actually looks like a baby, and not just a gestational sac. But once we did find out, it was a huge relief, you still always in the back of your mind, have those doubts or concerns because you know what can happen. And you almost know what a miracle it is for a baby to be born healthy.
Leanna Laskey McGrath 22:32
Oh, my goodness.
Leanna Laskey McGrath 23:06
Yeah, like a new level of appreciation for that, yeah.
Andrea Palmer 23:10
Yes, exactly. And for medical science as it is, you know, the fact that we can find out all of these things before a baby is, you know, of a certain gestational age, and you can find out the the biological sex, and I mean, it's super cool. And I'm incredibly grateful for it. The second pregnancy was really good. Once we got through that initial period of uncertainty, I felt very healthy, I will say I actually probably felt the most healthy I have really, in my adult life. I know a lot of people try to get more exercise, but I also felt really mentally clear. And I don't know if it was because I wasn't doing things like drinking alcohol, which I will say, you know, everybody likes a glass of wine, not everybody, but some people at the end of a hard workday, but at the same time, it also doesn't always have the positive outcomes that you hoped for as well. So just being able to kind of remove myself from some of that stimulus to be able to unapologetically put my body and my health and our baby's health first was really empowering. And I did that unapologetically. I was like, I'm getting a massage once a month. No compromising that, you know. So really being able to kind of go through that experience and kind of turn along the dialogue of my body not being mine anymore, to me really taking ownership accountability and kind of like, of our body.
Leanna Laskey McGrath 24:34
Yeah. And you talked about in your first pregnancy, you had kind of that challenge of the hesitancy to bond. Was it like once you receive the blood test results, was that lifted? Or was there still kind of that hesitation or challenge for you of like bonding with this baby growing inside of you?
Andrea Palmer 24:55
I would say it was mostly lifted. You still have a little bit of that fear in the back of your mind. But I would say most of my concerns related to this pregnancy to becoming a parent period are all fear based. And I knew this even before becoming a parent. But, you know, we're kind of said this narrative about what it's like to be a mom. And sure, it's great to hear other people's stories and to get advice, oftentimes, unsolicited. But at the end of the day, you really have to kind of just live your own experience. And you don't have to take what other people say, as the ultimate truth, right, you create your own experience. So yeah, I felt that I did feel comfortable bonding, we had also at that time, found out that we were having a baby girl, which the first baby was a boy. And my brother has four sons, my husband is a very masculine person. I mean, he's extremely sensitive, well rounded, but you know, he likes to hunt. And he's very handy. And he likes to, you know, work in the garage. So he does all these things that you'd probably know based on traditional gender norms, like associated with a little baby boy wanting to do.
Andrea Palmer 26:14
So when we found out we were having a daughter, that was its own then set of thoughts that came with it. And it wasn't what I was expecting, because I had framed my mind around our baby boy, and also, raising a daughter in today's society, gave me my own, a new set of parameters to consider. But but also not tying too much of this child's identity to their biological sex, either. Like it was also important for me to kind of separate that out. And when people said, you know, what are you having? I would always say, a baby, right? Like, it really doesn't matter if it's a boy or a girl, because it's healthy. And I don't really care if you want to buy pink or blue for my shower, right? Like, that's not, that's not the what's important to us. So kind of like living out your value systems. And it's almost just defining your value systems as you go, right? Because until you come into contact with any of these situations, or conversations you might not have you don't look at your book and say, Okay, this is what I believe on this topic, right? Like you establish those through conversations with your partner, your family or your friends. And I know that to an extent Sure. Might my daughter want to go out and hunt? Absolutely. Like, yes, you play with trucks? You do. None of these things matter. But I think there still was a little fear in me for raising a daughter in today's world. I was going to ask if you if you felt anything similar?
Leanna Laskey McGrath 27:41
Yeah. Well, I think we had a long journey to getting pregnant. So it was like four and a half years. And so when, and we did the test early because I was geriatric as well. I was 35. And so whenever we found out it was a girl, I was really, honestly, I was excited to be able to kind of like, raise the next generation of feminist women, I suppose. Right, like to be able to contribute to that. I mean, while I also think it is just as important to raise the next generation of feminist men, I was excited about like, being able to help shape a girl's experience a little bit more in the world, if that makes sense.
Andrea Palmer 28:31
It does. I agree. And I think that's ultimately where I ended up as well. And maybe it was my partner, but someone had said to me, it takes strong women to raise strong women. And I was kind of like, yeah, you're right, I am up for this. I got this. I know, she's gonna be sassy. And I'm gonna get everything that's coming to me in the world. But you know what that is? That's leadership skills. That's being assertive, that is, you know, standing up for yourself. So yeah, I ultimately was very excited. And you know, my husband has also his kind of ideology, I think has evolved being with I would call myself a feminist as well, no shame that he has come about with a different perspective on things. And you know, he actually has this bright pink shirt that says feminist. I don't know if it was before we found out we were having a daughter or after but you know, and he'll wear it proudly. And he'll get kind of challenged by people on, on why he's wearing it. And I think it's just started a dialogue. Because what what does that mean? And what is your understanding of what feminism is? Or why is it good? Or why is it bad? So I think to your point, it's also important to raise strong boys and boys who respect girls and it's it's a big conversation. It's not that one is easier or one is harder, but we're living in this global society and what we all do affects everybody else. So how can we just raise the next generation of good humans who respect one another, but also acknowledging that there are nuances to being a woman and that there are challenges that need to unique as you grow? so can we? Do we just completely ignore those? Or do we provide tools? Or do we try to change the conversation now for their future? Right? It just, it kind of gave me like a brain explosion of what does this mean for like my entire value system? For everything that I stand for? How, what does this mean?
Leanna Laskey McGrath 30:18
Yeah. Well, what I love about what you're saying, for both you and your partner, you're talking about kind of like, bringing children into the world, it is very confronting for us, in a way where it it challenges us to rethink things, you know, that we wouldn't have really maybe had to previously, or, you know, that just didn't come up, because we never came up against them. And so that is one of the things that has been so rewarding for me in the last five years of, of having a child and the nine months prior of just all of these questions that I had never asked myself, right, and all these things to consider that I hadn't considered it as much. I think it's definitely kind of re ignited like my own drive for equality in the world. And pushing for that. And so, you know, I've just I've learned so much, not only about being a parent, but also just about myself through the experience. And so you have this baby, tell me about that experience. What kinds of things are you confronting as you are bringing a child into the world?
Andrea Palmer 31:39
Mmhmm. Yeah, that's a big question. And I will say that, there's a few things, a few lessons I learned, I guess, through that experience. One is that I think education is key, especially when it comes to the process of having a baby the system in which we're having a baby, right? Are you having it in the hospital? What decisions will you need to make?
Leanna Laskey McGrath 31:39
Yeah.
Andrea Palmer 31:40
You can advocate for yourself. And I think a lot of people just kind of get forced through this system that has specific outcomes, right, they're health outcomes deliver a baby as quickly and as healthy as possible. But they're also based in, you know, a system that runs is based in capitalism, right. And so what's always best for the hospital, or the doctor isn't necessarily always going to be what's best for you. And that approaching it as a holistic experience that's spiritual and physical and emotional is important. So less classes, right, learning about the physiology of it about what your options are going to be in the hospital or establishing, you know, a bit of a birth plan that you don't necessarily have to stick through to 100%. And you probably won't, but knowing that you can advocate for yourself or ask for more time or saying, No, we don't want to do that. And I think doing that really helped me feel connected to my birth experience. And while it is a traumatic physical experience, I felt strong, I felt in control, I felt ready for whatever was going to be happening, which pre pregnancy and pre baby, I had a lot of fear about. So I think educating yourself and knowing what is on that spectrum, right? Talking to a doula talking to your doctors, I actually switched my doctor, like 34 weeks or 33 weeks, which was very close.
Leanna Laskey McGrath 32:25
Oh wow.
Andrea Palmer 33:00
Yeah. And I partially had to do that because of insurance. But I ended up with somebody who I think had a value system, which aligned much more with mine that I didn't want to be forced to have it, you know, just at 40 weeks, because it's 40 weeks or not inducing just for the sake of it. I did end up getting induced which, you know, didn't want to happen. But did. I spent three days in the hospital going through each of the interventions. But I said, No, I don't want to do it all at once, right? I want to take it step by step and let my body adjust and see what happens. And ultimately, my preference was to have a vaginal birth. And that is what happened. I would have been okay, if I had a C section if that was what needed to happen. But at the end of the day, I think a lot of women feel, they have PTSD from their birth experience. And that is something we don't even talk about. It's traumatic as it is. But then if you feel quickly, or you didn't have a say or you know, there's a number of reasons that you might feel that way. I'm grateful that I felt that I had a positive birth experience, even though it didn't go the way I wanted it to go. And I think a lot of women a lot of birthing parents leave that experience with some trauma.
Leanna Laskey McGrath 34:32
Yeah, yeah, I would agree. And I think it probably gets overlooked because then you start motherhood right then right? You start parenthood and it's like, I don't have time to even process this or think about this because now I'm trying to figure out how the hell to keep a human alive. How to like do this, you know, very new and big, big challenge. I don't even have any time to think about that or to process it, but it but it's there for sure. And I think, yeah, I think so many women I've talked to have had traumatic birth experiences, and they don't really even have the time or capacity to really process it and deal with it until a little bit later, you know postpartum, because it feels like there's just not time for that. And I'm a mother now I have to put that aside for right now and focus on this, this baby and this human in front of me that I'm trying to keep alive.
Andrea Palmer 35:31
Which is absolutely true. But another thing I always tell myself, I don't know where I hear this, but you know, on an airplane, you got to put your mask on first, before you can help other people. And I just always remind myself of that, that if I am not feeling mentally healthy, if I am not feeling a good version of myself, then I can't be a good parent to my child or a good partner to my spouse. And I think it's so important to try to shed some of that guilt, and that shame that we're kind of like conditioned to feel that. No, you have a baby. So now baby comes first. Yes, of course, you love your baby, it's your responsibility to care for your baby, but you still have to take care of yourself. And I feel like you can't always put yourself last. So trying to feel unapologetic about doing what you need to do to fill your cup is really important. And that might look different for everybody, right? It might be exercise, or yoga, or a massage or a few minutes of quiet time. You know, just taking a shower isn't self care. So I think thinking about what those things are, and then establishing your healthy boundaries is really important.
Andrea Palmer 36:35
And then of course, curating a support system that will help you achieve those goals. Obviously, that starts with a supportive partner, you know, if you're doing that with somebody else, your family, your friends, and that I think has just ultimately been such a great blessing, but also such a great force in having a positive experience for me. And that bridges into work, too. You know, my my boss at the time, my manager was I felt very supported as a pregnant person in the workplace. And that drove me to want to continue to work and to come back after maternity leave and to keep contributing, like I knew I could. I mean, ultimately, I think that that changed, you know, after I had the baby and got back into the workplace, in part because of just, you know, personnel and culture related to that. But I did feel very supported as a pregnant person in the workplace because of my boss, and it helped me to, yeah, have a positive experience overall, through my pregnancy.
Leanna Laskey McGrath 37:35
What were things that your boss did or said that made you feel supported? I'm curious, because as we think about supporting pregnant people in our workplaces, what were things that really helped? We might not have felt that right? Not, not all of us have that experience. So what happened? What did he say, or do, that really helped?
Andrea Palmer 37:57
Yeah, I'm sure there's a lot of ways you can create a supportive environment, but I did find that his words of support, were very helpful, you know, vocalizing that I am supportive, I want this to be a positive and healthy work environment for you, communicating to me my value throughout all of this. Of course, offering flexibility, right, there's a lot of doctor's appointments that you have to go to, especially to the end. I mean, I did have an end up having some health issues. So especially the third trimester hit me like a brick wall. I had a, you know, gestational hypertension, which was never an issue before, which just means even more doctor's appointments. I think really offering that flexibility, it did not impact my productivity whatsoever. In fact, even after being out for a quarter on maternity leave, then coming back from maternity leave, and using the benefits that were available to me, which are in New York State disability, and then paid family leave, I still was at the top of our leaderboard. So I just think that that also sends an important message like back to the workplace that, hey, when you support us, we support you. Becoming a mom does not mean you are any less of a contributor, it does not make you any less of an employee, but there needs to be a dialogue about this. And it can't just be the employers set the rules and expect everybody to follow. I hope that our culture is changing to be more supportive of parents in general, but especially birthing parents.
Leanna Laskey McGrath 39:31
Yeah. And so when you transition to motherhood, it sounds like your work was not impacted. Or maybe your work was impacted in a positive way because you, it sounds like you've you've been more productive. I guess like what changes did you see in yourself as a new mom, in terms of like, who you are, what you focus on, how you spend your time and kind of that identity piece Because you talked about your work being such an important part of your identity,
Andrea Palmer 40:04
I think that becoming a parent both changed and didn't change me, you know, it forces you like we talked about before to kind of either reevaluate or evaluate things for the first time. And I think I already knew that I needed to and had started to do work to kind of redefine my relationship with work and how I connected it to my identity. It gave me the opportunity to reinforce that to kind of like, put into action, what I believed my new value system to be. And also to have the confidence to establish boundaries and enforce them right and not feel like I could just be kind of steamrolled or forced into things that I didn't want to do, because somebody told me I had to. And I think that a friend kind of told me that and even after as I'm trying to kind of evaluate what's next, or what I want my relationship to be in the workplace as a working mom, you can create your own reality in a way, right? Like, if you believe that you can have the best of all worlds, maybe you can, right? And it doesn't have to be perfect. But I'm not necessarily going to make the wrong decision if I decide to take a step away from the workplace for a while to be more present with my family, or I want to go back full time, or somewhere in the middle of, you know, part time work.
Andrea Palmer 41:22
And, for me, this is such a temporary moment. And I want to be present. And I feel like my child changes so much week over week that if I'm, you know, working from eight to six, and then seeing her for what a half hour in the morning or at night or on weekends, like I'm just going to miss so much. And that surprised me. I did not expect to feel that way. But I want to do both. I don't want to give up my career, I don't want to give up that contribution that, you know, value that I know I provide to the world using my brain. But I also want to be present. And so I'm kind of creating that space for myself and insisting on that being what's important to me. And I think some employers will support that and others won't and hopefully we see you know, outcomes where those that do end up succeeding even more and attracting better talent. But I think it's still a battle that's happening. You know, when it comes like societally that we have to continue, men, women, everybody, non binary, right, to kind of stand up for what we believe in and hope that we can create a shift in
Andrea Palmer 41:22
And, for me, this is such a temporary moment. And I want to be present. And I feel like my child changes so much week over week that if I'm, you know, working from eight to six, and then seeing her for what a half hour in the morning or at night or on weekends, like I'm just going to miss so much. And that surprised me. I did not expect to feel that way. But I want to do both. I don't want to give up my career, I don't want to give up that contribution that, you know, value that I know I provide to the world using my brain. But I also want to be present. And so I'm kind of creating that space for myself and insisting on that being what's important to me. And I think some employers will support that and others won't and hopefully we see you know, outcomes where those that do end up succeeding even more and attracting better talent. But I think it's still a battle that's happening. You know, when it comes like societally that we have to continue, men, women, everybody, non binary, right, to kind of stand up for what we believe in and hope that we can create a shift in culture.
Leanna Laskey McGrath 42:30
culture. Yeah, you talked about kind of being able to set more boundaries was work. And then necessity of that. Does that feel easier with having a baby than it did when it was like just setting boundaries for yourself? Or does it feel any different? Or does it feel harder?
Andrea Palmer 42:50
That's an interesting question. I feel the reason I was able to do it is because I tried to have confidence in myself and recognize and say, No, I'm not going to let like this external dialogue, make me feel any less confident about what I've done, right, I can point to my results, I can point to my relationships in the workplace and say those speak for themselves. This has nothing to do with me being a mother, right? It has to do with the decisions I'm making. So I even found myself being very intentional in the workplace about how I refer to things, right, like maternity leave, or how you talk about those things and tried to almost take being a mom out of it. I didn't want that to even be a part of the conversation, because I think that there is still a little bit of a stigma, especially with certain populations in the workplace who, you know, tend to be at the top of the corporate ladder. So was it easier or harder, I mean, I did find my values to change a little bit to to help give me perspective, to recognize that at the end of the day, a job is a job, most jobs are temporary, there will always be a new one. And that you can make brave and bold decisions. Sometimes you can write I can because I do have privilege, I'm financially in a place that I don't have to worry about paying my mortgage month over month, right? Like I don't, couldn't necessarily just completely remove myself from the work environment. But I have that space to kind of make some of those choices that other people might not be able to make, but by saying, No, I won't. This isn't going to work for me. I felt like that gave me the confidence to say, Okay, well, then, you know, I'll make my decisions accordingly. It's more of a dialogue than just you have to do this or you have to do that.
Leanna Laskey McGrath 44:31
And you mentioned that during your pregnancy, you had a very supportive boss. And that changed at some point. What was it like that transition? How much did that impact your experience? And what did that change for you? Did that have anything to do with looking at your relationship with work and saying this is just a job, or had that been the case? Even you know before?
Andrea Palmer 44:59
I think it did have a big impact, a big impact. And I think also because I ended up with some postpartum anxiety and postpartum depression, I think in part because of not just being a parent, but being in that work environment, I guess I was kind of surprised because I didn't really develop a PTA or PPD until later on. And in my head, I always thought, Okay, if you get past those first six weeks, like you're good, but that wasn't the case. For me, it really didn't start to kind of manifest or create issues until like much later on, like maybe four to six months. And I do think part of that was was work, even though I was focusing on my mental health. So, you know, I guess maybe that's kind of hopefully a takeaway one day for employers, or if I'm going to ever decide to go back to a place again, to be able to curate that work environment, you know, it is about culture, setting it from the top, but also who your kind of direct supervisors are supporting mental health. I think it's hugely important specifically to burning partners. I mean, I am extremely grateful to live in New York again, because New York has paid family leave, which is not available for everybody, but for you know, many, for most people is 12 weeks, partially paid. And that's available to both parents. And that really gave us the space to breathe the space to be present the space to adjust. And not just for me, but for my partner as well. And I found that to be another takeaway that the fact that my partner took and is taking the time, you're not taking the time just to be with the baby, right, like my husband took the time to also support me. And that was huge. Because if I was doing this or for myself, or I wasn't able to get any sleep and then have to go into the next day, I think it would be even worse. So for non birthing partners to also take that time not everyone can, right, but to also take that time, I think is good to support the birthing partner, but also just to create more equality in the workplace. Because if you know, you're a hiring manager and you find out that this person you're about to hire as pregnant isn't going to change the way that you feel about that candidate or that about that new hire versus, okay. I also know that this non birthing partner that I'm hiring is about to have a baby. Okay, well, he or she is also going to be taking those 12 weeks like, I truly believe that it creates more equality in the workplace when it's not just women who are being associated to that life event.
Leanna Laskey McGrath 47:27
Yeah, I think that I mean, that's talking about like parent parental leave across the board and not looking at it just as maternity leave or not looking at it just as the the birthing parent who needs to take some time. Yeah.
Andrea Palmer 47:40
Exactly.
Leanna Laskey McGrath 47:41
I wonder about you said that PPD and PPA kind of came about? More like the four to six month mark, was that coinciding with like, when you are going back to work is like, Was there something that kind of triggered that?
Andrea Palmer 47:58
I think two things triggered it. One was sleep, probably the biggest one was sleep, and also work. And I think it was a bit of a vicious cycle, right, where I'm sure there's some people out there listening right now that, you know, when you lay down at night, your brain doesn't shut down. And it's buzzing, whether it's thinking about an email or your child or, you know, capitalism in the United States I mean it doesn't matter, right. You just like, your computer doesn't shut down. And so that I think created a bit of a vicious cycle where that I found myself with like insomnia, where even if my daughter was sleeping, I still wasn't and then I was getting even more upset at myself and waking up feeling worse and not myself. I found that to be the most direct contributor when I didn't get a fair night's sleep, I was a different person the next day. And so I basically, you know, I had a conversation with my partner, and I was like, You need to step up here, I can't, I need more sleep than you just even before a baby, we both have to give. And that really helped and really worked. And overall, I think your support network, but also if you have a supportive partner, is going to give you the best outcomes and saying, This is what I need.
Andrea Palmer 49:04
Because too often we're expected to just be totally selfless. And another quote I try to remember is, there's a time to give, and there's a time to receive. And I consider myself a very giving person, but in that space of postpartum, I had to let myself also receive and not feel guilty about it. Yeah. And I think that really helps as well. Right? Because you are, you just gave life you've gone through this traumatic body and spiritual experience. You're creating a new, not just the new person in your child, but a new person in yourself. And so to give yourself kind of the grace and the space and support to do that, which includes receiving from other people. Whether that's a meal, you know, if someone says, Hey, I'd love to drop off dinner this week, instead of saying like, Oh, no, don't worry about it. I was like, Great, how's Wednesday, we'd love a pizza. You know, and just letting myself receive even though I'm used to, you know, trying, I think to give more often And so I think that was helpful as well.
Leanna Laskey McGrath 49:04
Yeah. So you talked about kind of starting to experience PPD PPA, what showed up for you? Or like, how did you recognize it? What did you do? How did you work with it? Or overcome it, if you have?
Andrea Palmer 50:19
Yeah, I think the PPA was what initially manifested by way of intrusive thoughts. My partner would leave the house. And I would be like, so concerned about what could happen, like, can you please text me when you get to work? Just let me know, you got there safely? Or, you know, carrying the baby up the stairs? Oh, my God, am I gonna drop her. And I see a therapist, I had even before we got pregnant the first time. And I did that in part to like, establish the groundwork and relationship for the work I knew I would need to do. But she said, you know, well, does that stop you from going up the stairs? And I said no, right. So it was like an intrusive thought pattern. But it didn't necessarily change my behavior. So I think it was kind of, you know, a line in the sand there.
Andrea Palmer 51:08
But then it started to turn into a little bit more of postpartum depression, where I found it really affecting kind of my mood. On nights where I wouldn't get enough sleep, I would just find myself weeping the next day, like just not over anything, but just not able to stop tears from going down my face. And how do you work on a day like that, you know, work hard enough as it is much less when you can't stop crying. And then there were also I think, some other intrusive thoughts there, where I vocalize them to my partner, I was like, This is what I'm thinking, I know, it's not healthy, I know it's not good. And bless his heart, he wouldn't know anxiety from a hole in the wall, he's like, My heart is racing, what's happening. That might be some anxiety. So being able to kind of openly communicate to him and say, I know you can't identify it yourself. But this is what's happening to me. And then I think through therapy, and ultimately, I did decide to go talk to my doctor about it. And I got prescribed some antidepressants, which I hope are just a temporary, temporary fix. But I will say it definitely helped me to get more sleep, which in turn is you know, helping me to be more mentally healthy. I've also since removed myself from my work environment. So, you know, as you face these challenges, they're overcomeable with the right support network, and everything's a work in progress. Right? Everything's temporary and a stepping stone. So.
Leanna Laskey McGrath 52:35
Yeah. Yeah, so you said you've removed yourself from that work environment. So I'm curious, a little bit more about like that decision making process, what led you to ultimately decide to do that. And, by the way, one of the things we haven't talked about is the fact that your position is remote. And I think that remote work is often you know, really great for new moms to have more flexibility, and the ability to spend more time with their baby if they choose to, or like have the baby around and be able to see them on breaks. I know that was huge for me. I was I worked remotely whenever I whenever I had a baby. And I was actually just looking in a discussion group today and a woman was talking about, you know, I have this great work situation where I'm in a remote role, but I don't love my job. But like, the flexibility is so E me, it's so important for me that I don't want to give that up. And so it's like, are we then kind of having to choose between having a career that we love and having the flexibility that we want? And so I'm just curious what that process looked like, and you know, because you're stepping away from a remote role. And yeah, what was that like for you?
Andrea Palmer 54:00
It was definitely difficult. And I think it was months and weeks of back and forth. But ultimately, something's got to give when you're feeling that stressed or mentally unhealthy. It's just not worth it. You know what I mean? You're not your best self. And for some people, that means they find another job right away and go to it. For me, it meant I needed to take a little bit of time to myself to evaluate and to kind of step away. I frankly, was feeling burned out, you know, going through years of startup, and then the due diligence process, and then merger and acquisition. It's exhausting. And so I think, again, I'm grateful to have the opportunity to be able to take a little bit of time off, but I think that that's helping me to take a step back, reevaluate my priorities. spend some more time with the baby which I will say, I want the best of both worlds, right? When I'm home full time, I'm like, Okay, this is too much, right these days are longer than a workday. But when I'm at work, it's like, you know, you want to be spending the time with your baby. So I think, a good balance if it's available to you, and I actually just look it up with NPR said, but it was something like a third of the women in the workforce are seasonal or part time, which is a pretty large population. So if we can continue to offer that kind of flexibility and support rather than what we saw during COVID, where, unfortunately, women had to leave the workforce and that, because they were the ones who had to, you know, give up for the family dynamic, or whatever it might be, because they're not making as much. So it was a difficult decision. The position being remote is a perk, it establishes great flexibility. I agree. But for me, it was also actually pretty difficult. Because with the baby being in the house, even though I did have an office where I can shut my door, I felt myself getting pulled in every direction. And I couldn't be present for either were sure I could take a break to breastfeed her. But then I was still trying to run to my next meeting. Or I was in a meeting and hearing her cry with grandma and feeling that obligation to go soothe her. So I actually think having the baby out of the house, when I was working from home was actually one of the best things we did. Because I could just be present in whatever my responsibility was at the moment rather than feeling like I had to be everything to everybody.
Leanna Laskey McGrath 56:28
Yeah, yeah, that's really interesting. So you and you had childcare, just to clarify, you had childcare, it wasn't like you were trying to do both by yourself.
Andrea Palmer 56:38
That's correct. We have luckily the grandmas helping with that childcare, which was also another blessing that we didn't have to send her to daycare so early on, which many people have to and I see the value of it as well, for socialization. We may choose to do that, right, just give ourselves a little bit more space in our life. But while she was so little, you know, they can't even hold their head up yet. I was very grateful to have had family helping in that process, either in our home or ultimately at their home.
Leanna Laskey McGrath 57:05
Yeah. So now you're at eight months postpartum, you've just kind of transitioned away from your job that you had pre baby. I'm just curious, like, where are you now? Like, how are you feeling? What are you thinking about? What's changed for you? Just to kind of like, what's the culmination of all of this?
Andrea Palmer 57:30
Yeah, that's such a hard question. Because I don't know. I feel like I'm still deciding. I'm still trying to explore and ask that question of what I want. And maybe some people are more resolute than others. But it's a hard question to answer. Because, yeah, I want to go back to work. And I want to contribute. But I also want to be present for my family and not feel spread too thin. I want to do everything. So I think I'm still deciding. And honestly, I don't know, if you ever get to a place where you're like, Yes, this is it, I've made it. Everything lines up, right, like you're constantly in flux. And you're constantly reevaluating, constantly making new decisions based on what your situation is. And so I'm trying not to be too hard on myself, as I go through that process, and try to understand also that most things aren't permanent, right? Like you could take a job that might not work for your situation, and then you find something different. Or you could decide that you don't want to go back. I mean, I have a friend who thought that she would want to stay home. And then after she was home for a while she's like, Nope, this isn't for me, and then went back full time at a VP role, you know, so you can give yourself the grace and the space to kind of adjust as you experience things. So that's what I'm thinking about. I mean, I'm thinking also about going back to pelvic floor therapy, so I eventually stop peeing my pants, but you know, there's always something to work on.
Leanna Laskey McGrath 58:59
Absolutely. So one thing I'm really curious about is you said earlier, that you were feeling burnt out by work, even before you had the baby. Do you think you would have stepped away regardless, and and I'm asking this because for me, I chose to step away. And I was feeling really burnt out. And I think I would have been feeling really burnt out even if I didn't have a baby. It just exacerbated it. And I just wonder, like, was having a baby like, actually, what allowed me to feel empowered enough to make that decision for myself that I maybe should have made anyway? Does that makes sense?
Andrea Palmer 59:41
100% and I almost felt guilty feeling the same way, right? Like, I don't want my baby to be an excuse for me to do like what's right for me, but it's almost like it's more socially acceptable, right? Like, if you just say, I'm stepping out of the workforce because I'm burnt out. It's like, what? You can't do that. Don't you care about your career. What's next? How are you going to get the new position that you don't have a position now? Versus I'm leaving for my family. It's almost like that is more socially acceptable. Or maybe it's more acceptable for the egos of the companies, I don't know. But I felt the same way. And I almost felt a little guilty about it. Because it's like, I don't want the baby to be the reason that I'm doing what's right for me. And I also don't want to create that to contribute to that dialogue in the workplace. Right? Of like, if you're a woman of childbearing age, then there's going to be like an asterisk next to you potentially.
Leanna Laskey McGrath 1:00:30
Yes.
Andrea Palmer 1:00:30
And I don't know if I'm just projecting, or if that's real or perceived. But I mean, in a way it is my lived experience. But no, I think I felt the same way that you did, where I was burnt out before I had the baby. And that maybe the timing just worked out, thank you universe, that it gave me the opportunity to have a good reason, right where the timing lined up. And I think I just kept telling myself, like, get to the next line in the sand, like, get through due diligence, get through the acquisition, get through the one year mark, get to maternity leave, get through maternity leave, get through the end of the year. And you can just keep pushing that mind back. But at some point, I was like, No, this isn't. It's not working for me, you know, it's negatively affecting my health. And at the end of the day, that's what we have is, you know, our health and the health of our family, and everything else is just, you know, icing. Yeah.
Leanna Laskey McGrath 1:01:23
Well, and also what you're doing there is you're getting through life, right, you're like, we have this amount of time on the planet. And so if we spend our whole lives like that whole amount of time, or a large amount of that time just trying to get through it. You know, like I think a lot of times, we don't think of that as a conscious choice, that we're choosing to live our lives like we're getting through it. But I can totally, totally relate to like, I just got to get to this next milestone. I remember always thinking like, I just have to get through this season, or I have to get through this project. And yeah, it's like, do I want to live my life just getting through it? Or do I want to actually enjoy it? Right, and like, live in the present moment a little bit, rather than just like looking for that next line in the sand or that next milestone. Absolutely.
Andrea Palmer 1:02:00
And there certainly are real life implications to these decisions, right? I mean, financially, are you able to, you know, do that? Insurance. Can people you know, people can't just leave their jobs, even if they could afford it, because insurance, right? So there's like a lot of different factors that go into that. But I think if you can set yourself up, be able to make those decisions, then having the courage and the confidence to create that life for yourself, is the only way that you're going to get there. And it's hard. And I feel like I've had to make some difficult decisions. But when I look at my daughter who can't yet talk, and I say, What do you think I should do? You know, I feel like, now my decisions feel a little more weighted, because I feel like I'm doing it for her and her future. And I'm trying to have the courage and do what's right, rather than what's easy.
Leanna Laskey McGrath 1:03:06
Yeah. Yeah, I am very grateful to my daughter for, like allowing me to make that decision. Because I don't know that I would have made it without her in my life. And I think that that comes back to that, our constant call to reassess our values and just check in with like, you know, what's right for me right now, what was right for me five years ago or five months ago might be very different from what it is today. And so I feel so much gratitude to her for almost making me want to be the kind of person who trusts myself enough to make decisions that are right for me, even though they might be, you know, go against the grain or, or that other people might frown upon them or whatever. But like, for me to feel that level of confidence of, I'm going to do what's best for me. I don't know that I felt the ability to do that before I was a parent.
Andrea Palmer 1:04:04
Yeah, I mean, you will feel an obligation to model the behavior. And I find myself doing that, too. I mean, I think it is probably true that kids make you want to be a better person where I'm like, Okay, I need to deal with my baggage, I need to deal like, make my emotional toolbox better. I'm more conscious of myself, if I raise my voice to the dog, right? I don't want her to see me doing that or to feel that it's okay to you know, have to do that to animals. Yeah. So I'm just I'm much more conscious. And I haven't even gotten to big emotions yet. Right? Like she's not even walking. So once you get to that level of, you know, sophistication and dealing with tantrums and emotions and situations of why this or why that or why not. I think it only probably gets harder. But no, it is fun. It's so fun. I didn't think that it would be this fun, but I've really enjoyed the ability to slow down to try to be more present and it is a constant reminder, and just witness life. Yeah, it's really been more fun than I thought it would be.
Leanna Laskey McGrath 1:05:03
Yeah, I love that. And I, I think that there's so much richness in motherhood and I'm happy to be able to experience it with you and hear about your experiences. Because, you know, these kids, like there's so much richness and opportunity. And, you know, if we kind of do take those opportunities to reevaluate and check in and grow, which is really what you're talking about right is like the growth that is needed to be the kind of people that we want to be for our kids. So thank you so, so much for sharing your story. Andrea, I am excited for you in your next chapter, whatever it may hold for you. And good luck when you get to the next stage.
Andrea Palmer 1:05:48
Thank you, Leanna. And I'm very grateful to you for creating this space for parents and women and employees to talk and share experiences, because I think that has been so helpful for me especially, to hear what other people are doing and that I'm not alone. And this isn't unique, and we have the support of the people around us to do this. So thank you for starting the dialogue and kind of creating a safe space for everybody to explore these changes together. And it's been awesome today. I appreciate you.
Leanna Laskey McGrath 1:06:17
I appreciate you, too, Andrea thank you so much. And thank you so much everybody for tuning in. And we will see you next week. Have a good one.
Leanna Laskey McGrath 1:06:30
Thanks so much for tuning into the executive coach for moms podcast. Please like subscribe or follow the show so you'll be notified when the next episode is available. I hope you'll join me again next time. Take care.
