#269 Raising Teens Today: Building Trust and Connection

Greg & Rachel (00:01.03)
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Extraordinary Family Life podcast. We are your host, Greg and Rachel Denning. Today, my friends, we are talking about teenagers, one of the raddest topics on the planet because they are some of the coolest people on the planet. Four years from when I was a kid, I remember people bagging on teenagers and teens and and then you hear parents, if I can just make it through the teen years and teens are so hard and...

or their hormones and blah blah blah and all of that negative talk not only is it not helpful

It's not true. It's kind of prejudice. It's prejudice. It's belittling. It's ridiculous, actually. And if I might be absolutely frank, if you're having trouble with your teenagers, that is an indication that you are, how shall I say, not strategically parenting and maybe haven't been for a while.

And so you're just reaping rewards from former behaviors. And I know, I know that can be painful to hear, but it's actually the most powerful thing you can hear. It's the most important thing you hear. If something's off with my kids, I don't look at my kids and go, there's something wrong with my kids. I need to send them to some kind of camp or I need to send them to somebody to fix them or whatever. I need to stop and be like, Whoa, what am I doing or not doing that's making this ineffective or making it harder than it needs to be? Well, yeah, the most

painful truths are often the most powerful truth because what that means ultimately, that's what I love about the whole idea of personal responsibility and accepting responsibility for the outcomes in your life, it means you can actually do something to change it. If the fact is that teenagers just are stinkers and annoying and trouble no matter what,

Greg & Rachel (01:58.342)
then yeah, I get it, then that sucks. And that's the attitude, that is why people have that attitude is because they do believe that. They just believe that this is just how teenagers are. They don't understand that there's a lot more that we can do as parents to make the teenage years actually enjoyable and something that you love instead of something that you loathe. Exactly. And it should be something we celebrate and enjoy. It should be a stage and a phase of life.

It was amazing. It is some of the funnest times of parenting. I mean, sincerely, I believe that because that's when your children actually start, from my experience, become your friends. Because before that, they're your children. And you have to take care of them, and they are dependent on you.

they start to become so much more independent as teens and they actually start becoming your friends. I know for you too, like you loved it when our teenagers grew up because now you can - I've been waiting since they were little. Yeah, exactly. We did tons of adventures when our kids were little but I just had to carry them all. And I just remember, you know, I loved, and I loved every bit of it. I loved carrying them, I loved baby adventures, I loved toddler adventures, I loved little, you know, killer kid adventures, but I was always excited about when they're big enough to do big, bad adventures. And that's when we started leading trips actually.

for other families too is because our teenagers could now go on the adventures you wanted to do. They just, two of our teens just summited Kilimanjaro back in February on a trip. You unfortunately couldn't because you were vomiting. They've driven in the Sahara with us. They've gone bungee jumping and skydiving. Like we've been able to do so many fun adventures with them that you can only do when they're older. And again.

friend part of it. Like they truly have become our friends. People we want to hang out with, people we want to spend time with. They want to spend time with us too, which is nice. And that only works. I love how you're describing that. And I guarantee right now, a lot of people listening to this are like, you're not supposed to be friends with your kids. You're supposed to be the parent. So that's what I'm saying. Like the only way you can be friends with your kids is if your kids are super mature and responsible and like...

Greg & Rachel (04:10.47)
easily influence they have to be very capable very competent they have to be well respectful and they respect you yeah well and they and they understand life and they understand rules and laws and accountability then then you're not you don't have you're not babysitting you're not fighting with them you literally you guys we have zero and I'm not over exaggerating I'm like we have zero concerns or problems about our teens zero

There's no issues. And the only way that works. We currently have, well, not technically five teenagers because two of them are now in their 20s. Barely at 20. We had four teenagers at once and now we have three. But yeah, this is confusing. We have five young adults. Some of them are teens. And if teens, and I would say the majority of teens, at least in our culture, are still...

childish. And so that friend stage if it ever comes it comes much later. But if your kids are mature and responsible and fun and pleasant to be around and you love them love spending time with them and they love spending time with you. It's awesome. That's the epitome of awesome family life. You have like no issues or worries where okay and here's

This doesn't mean no problems and no obstacles and no challenges in life. We need to clarify that that's what that means. It's not rainbows and unicorns. They're still navigating the realities of life. You're still helping and mentoring them, navigate, figuring out the next stages of life and relationships and emotions and all of these things. But it's not... When it's ideal, they want it, they come to you like, hey, I want the next level. I want to be...

better at this, I want to be better at this, I want to learn these skills. And they're coming to you asking for advanced level training instead of you chasing them around the house, threatening them if they don't clean up their underwear. Or even worse, trying to keep them from drugs or alcohol or horrible behaviors or addictions. Yeah, literally our 17 and 19 year old who are the oldest still at home, then we also have a almost 14 year old at home, just...

Greg & Rachel (06:31.27)
Yesterday or the day before they were talking to us about the advanced level training. They want to do it medical training there's all these cool camps and training programs here in Europe and They want to go do them like that's what they're excited about. That's what they're level It's called it's from an organization called world extreme medicine. I mean this is for the the doctors without borders like who are all doing the ratta stuff and our teens are like

Can we please go do those? Can we do advanced weapons training and combatives? Can we... I just... You know, they want to be competent. Yeah. They're chasing this stuff and they're just reading books like mad on their own. Their own accord. They get up and we work out hard every single morning with my three teens and I. And the little girls come in too. So the reason... I mean the point of all this, we're not just here trying to brag about our children.

We're trying to paint a picture and a vision of what is possible because I don't feel like we're anomalies. Like we're not some aliens from another planet that are doing something humans can't do. We are human beings. Like we came from normal families, normal teenage experiences. I was the epitome of a horrible teenager. I literally was. Like I was rebellious. I was disrespectful. I was rude. I was contentious. I was

that teenager that people describe. That was me. So we come from that background and we're painting a picture of what's possible because very often, I mean, Brian Tracy has said before that the reason many people are not wealthy is because they've never been exposed to it. And I think that that principle applies to everything else in life. Like the reason most people don't have a great marriage is they've never been exposed to it. The reason they don't have great families and great parenting skills is because they've never been exposed to it.

So exposure and a vision of what is possible is the first step. You can't create something that you don't know exists. Exactly. So we want to paint this picture and share with you so that you can see what is possible. Exactly. And if you're just looking around your neighborhood, talking to people in your local school area or your church. And they're complaining about teenagers. And you're like, my teens. Yeah, me too. I'm like, I guess that's not. Yeah, teens, they're just on top. it's so hard. And you're in this little bubble.

Greg & Rachel (08:50.918)
your own little bubble wherever your little area is whether in your little corner of the world or connecticut or you know oregon wherever and you're just sitting there in this little demographic and yeah my teen two my teen two you sit around telling these horror stories about teenagers and you think well that's the way it is yeah and that's just not true that's just the way it is in that little group well it doesn't have to be the way it is of course it is the way it is for many people but it doesn't have to be that way

So that's what we want to talk about today is like how how do you get something different? How do you create better relationships for those who might be saying well you guys are just lucky? It's not luck. It is not luck. It's strategy. It is not hope. It is not you know well you guys could do it because you're rich or well not everybody gets you know xyz whatever we we start throwing out these excuses

Because we want to be justified and play the victim and say, well, it's not me. It's not me. And we can even say it's not genetics. We weren't just lucky to get great kids. Because first of all, we're talking about at least five of them here. And we've got consistently similar outcomes and not the same because they're not all the same person. And our oldest is adopted. So it's principles that work with.

birth children and adopted children. Like it's the principles that are working, not just our luck. And for those who are new to the podcast, I grew up in a broken home, was out on my own as a teenager. So neither Rachel nor I. You weren't a rebellious teenager. You were on your own. I couldn't be rebellious. Like I was in survival mode. I'm like, I ate ramen noodles and canned pork and beans because nobody eats pork and beans. So they were really cheap. So.

Like I literally was just surviving and it was good. It was a wonderful experience because as a 16 year old just out living in rough neighborhoods trying to get a job, just trying to, absolutely broke and timid and shy and insecure. And I was living in areas where all the teens around me, drugs and alcohol and sex and violence and vandalism, all kinds of crime. I mean, I was surrounded by that stuff. And I was sitting there, I'm like, I can't do that.

Greg & Rachel (11:11.59)
I don't have time for that. I can't afford it and it has consequences. I'm sitting there thinking like if I if I do that there are consequences to that. Like I'm still trying to figure out how to buy my next package of ramen noodles so I eat tomorrow like no. And then I was looking around in the neighborhoods I was in I was like this is horrible. Like I don't want to live here. You know there are people that were in their 20s and 30s and 40s 50s and 60s in these neighborhoods.

Luckily as a six -year -old I was like I'm not spending the next 40 years like this. They know in the world I'm not going to do what they're doing So I only want to paint that picture so that none of you think well, okay If you two just came from these wonderful families and you have this advantage in life You know you had parents that showed you how to raise teenagers neither of us had that

and we had to figure this stuff out. And we were very deliberate and strategic about it, and that's why it worked. And so if we can do it, you can do it. Anyone can do it. Well, and plus, to explain the process, too, it was very much a trial and error, and we figured out things that worked by experimenting and then did more of those things. So it's not like there was no mistakes and it was perfect the whole way and that we never had any conflict.

that sort of stuff happened, but we were able to be strategic in figuring out what worked and what didn't, and then to stop doing the things that didn't work, and start doing more of the things that did work. So by the time our second team, our third team, our fourth team, now our 15, we're like, okay, we know what is working, and we can get more consistent results with it because we figured it out, right? And that doesn't mean we know all the answers, but we figured out a lot of things.

That I would say is our super simple superpower that we can share with anybody. It can be anybody's superpower. Literally any person on this planet, this can be your superpower. Those of you listening, it's like we just kind of hand it to you. It's not ours to give. I mean, anybody can access it, but we're kind of hypothetically just handing it like, here's this superpower, use it. And it's just what you said. It's like, just notice what works and do more of that.

Greg & Rachel (13:27.75)
Notice what doesn't and do more of that. Now noticing isn't just enough. You have to research it. You have to study. You have to practice. So when you get out and do this with everything in life, when you get out and you try a lot of things and you try them quickly and you try to implement a lot of strategies and you're watching, really paying attention, you're being deliberate about what you're doing, you collapse time. So what would take somebody years to figure out, you can figure out in a few weeks because you're just trying.

a lot of things and paying really close attention. Most of us are just rolling along kind of dazed, confused with our fingers crossed, hoping our kids turn out. The funny thing I have observed with people and parents is that it's like they have no sense of urgency. I have noticed that people will realize there's some issue with their child or their teen and yet they take no action on it. They do nothing about it.

They might reach out and ask a question, but then when it gets right down to actually taking steps, they procrastinate or they dilly dally or they never make a decision. And so years, months and years will go by and they never do anything to actually try to make a difference or to solve the problem. I think that is one of the fallacies that many parents face is that they're just not, they just don't have any sense of urgency about.

I need to do something about this and I need to do it now, not tomorrow, not next week. Like if there's something that's a potential...

disastrous outcome down the road and that's another thing too like we have learned to pay attention to the warning signs that there's a train wreck coming at the end of the road but if you can pay attention to the warning signs before that wreck too many people wait till the wreck and then that's when we get the phone calls about my child attempted suicide or they did this or this or this or whatever all these horrible things that we don't want to happen they wait until then rather than our approach has always been to pay attention to the warning signs

Greg & Rachel (15:31.686)
Which are the small things. Unless you have a good relationship with your teen and they are healthy and happy, everything else is pretty much a warning sign. Really. All of the behavior issues you're concerned about, those are all warning signs. So pay attention to them and take action now instead of waiting for it to go away or to resolve itself or whatever. That's an approach we've never used. We don't wait for those things. We just, that's a warning sign. What can we do about it today?

One thing that a lot of good parents don't realize is that the warning sign that they often mistakenly assume is normal behavior. Like, that's normal tween or teen behavior. And I want to emphatically say today that's... And there's some things that are. There's some things that are. Yes. Yes, there are some things that are normal. Like it's normal for an 11 or 12 year old to want to do nothing. Right.

Especially boys. 11, 12, 13. They're in this phase of like, anything that requires effort, I'm out. Right? But expecting them to just grow out of that on their own, that's actually not normal. You have to intervene in order to change that behavior, that temporary behavior, which can become a permanent behavior. So then they're 30 and sitting in your basement and still don't want to do anything. And rudeness, disrespect, like strange behaviors, like sleeping in way long and staying up super late and.

And you gotta start distinguishing like what are the warning signs, the ones that have to be addressed immediately and do something about it. So yeah, I would plead, plead with all of you. Do not procrastinate. Don't hesitate. If you see anything that's off, take action on it immediately and keep taking action until it is resolved. Now that's.

It has to be done in the right way. Exactly. That's where I was going. There's an art and a science because if you're just like, I have to take action and you just start pushing and pushing and pushing and pushing. Being a dictator. You'll push your kids right out of your life for good. You'll actually create the very thing you don't want. You'll cause more problems. Sometimes the action you need to take is actually on yourself. It's action to improve yourself, your way of being, your viewpoints, your perspectives. That's sometimes the action you need to take.

Greg & Rachel (17:56.262)
to improve that relationship with your child because you are playing a part in that. You are contributing to the lack of the relationship that you have. So we can emphatically say, the best way to help my teens is for me to be a better person. The best way for me to help any of my children with any of their issues is for me to be a better person. So if I'm a better husband and a better father, a better man, a better provider, a better protector,

I'm helping my kids. You're a better parent. Yeah. And I can specifically dig into parenting strategies and tactics and skills and take it dead serious. Yeah. Dead serious. Because this is the most important role you have at this time in your life. Like if you have children at home, there is nothing more important than raising them well. Nothing.

And it has an expiration date. Like they're going to leave your home. They're going to move out. And the type of relationship you have with them for the rest of your life will determine how you parented them. Be determined by how you parented them. Exactly. Man, this stuff matters so much and we have to be good at it. So, and in order to be good at it, there's just several skills that we have to develop. They're non -negotiable, I would say. Indispensable, non -negotiable. You've just got to get good.

at several things. Well and I want to interject for a second. If we were again to paint a picture, a vision, an ideal vision, not something that we know everyone can attain, but just to throw it out there for people that you know maybe are starting out on this journey. Ideally the relationship you have with your teen begins when they are a baby. Like the moment they're born. That's when it begins. So ideally

You are gonna have an advantage if you realize that and you work on having that relationship built from the very beginning. We even talked about in one of our recent podcasts, like the importance of under the age of one year for sure, maybe even two years, being there immediately to meet their needs, not letting them cry it out, not letting them, you know, scream and cry themselves to sleep. All of those things actually do make a big difference in bonding with them and in them.

Greg & Rachel (20:18.278)
in their psychology, being able to trust the people around them to know that their needs will be met when they need those needs met. And we may not fully realize this, but often children rebel as teenagers because of things that occurred in their early years. Like even the fact that they didn't have their needs met as a baby. And we think that that's not connected.

But it actually is. It's very much connected. It's imprinted in their psyche. Yeah. It absolutely is. In fact, if we want to go really deep here, this is for another podcast episode sometime. But it's even before that. It's what you're thinking, eating, feeling, how you're living while you're pregnant for moms. And even before that, this is going to sound crazy, but it's so profound. This is called epigenetics.

It's the condition of your mind and body when you conceive the baby. What you contribute in the seed and the egg in the DNA often has to do with the quality of your both your psychology and your physiology at the time of conception. And this sounds crazy for people like they think no how can that be true but

We started having an inkling about that with each of our children. And I think one thing that proved that to me was actually with our adopted daughter, because there was a time in her teenage years when we felt, again, willing to do whatever is necessary, we felt like she needed to get a brain scan. And we had learned about Dr. Amon and all of the work he has done with the brain, which is amazing. And we took her in to get a brain scan. And we learned that, and she learned about herself, that she has an overactive basal ganglia, which means that she's

constantly in fight or flight mode, which was very insightful for us and for her. She's been someone who's constantly jumpy. Like you walk into the room and she's like, you scared me, you know? And we're like, no, I just walked in. And especially when she was an early teen, there was a lot of conflict. Massive amounts of conflict. And we're like, we are not confrontational people. We have just absolute peace in our family.

Greg & Rachel (22:41.35)
And both her when she was going through this identity process that all youth go through, going through this identity, but she's like, I'm adopted. I'm a different race. We live this crazy life. We're living in Africa. Right. Like what is going on? And she's gone through and there was a lot of conflict. What in the world? Why is she always just running, fighting, freezing? Like what is going on? And we found out later that

her brain is always in fight, flight, or freeze mode. Exactly. So an active and overactive basal ganglia. But what was fascinating that ties into what you're talking about a minute ago is that the doctor told us, you have this overactive basal ganglia because either your birth father or birth mother had something traumatic that happened to them that activated these genes and they were then passed on to you.

And she said it may have been even up to a grandparent. Yeah, which was really interesting. Which would blow your mind. But I mean, that's the scientific proof right there that something that happens to you or the state that you are in, especially when a child is conceived, is passed on genetically. So that's the big picture there. Don't lose hope. Yeah, don't lose hope like.

Right. There's no hope with my teenagers because my grandparents had traumatic experiences. Like, no. Or I messed up when they were kids. That's not true. All of this can be improved dramatically. But it's important to see that that can play in because I know for us and our relationship with our daughter, that was so helpful for all of us to have that understanding, to realize, my gosh, you know, once she realized that she had an overactive basal ganglia, it was easy for us to then have those conversations of like, OK, wait a second.

you're feeling upset right now, is that because of your basal ganglia or is there something else going on? And then she's able to then have a framework of understanding about what's happening. And it's so helpful for her and it was so helpful for us. So it's good for us to know those types of things that might be going on because otherwise we're thinking, I have no idea what's wrong with this kid. I don't know what to do with him. But when we have understanding, even going back to that sort of stuff, the genetics,

Greg & Rachel (24:59.334)
then it helps us to be able to come up with a strategic plan that helps us to get the results that we want and the results that they want. Our children want to have good relationships with us. That's what they want. Never ever underestimate how much your kids want to please you. Exactly. They do. And so we just have to do our part to make sure we're not pushing them away. Okay. We're not going to talk about this today because we have a specific question. We're going to address a specific issue, but we have to mention

So many behavioral problems with teens are caused by lack of sleep and poor food quality. If you'll just improve how well they sleep, make sure they're getting good sleep and enough sleep and make sure they're eating good food. The vast majority of behavioral issues and problems and weird stuff just go away. Including depression. Just because they're tired and their brains are starving. Yeah, including depression and anxiety.

specifically our oldest daughter again, but I think that this is true for all of us, myself included. If she does not get enough meat, specifically red meat, she literally will start to feel depressed and anxious. Well, and that's true. Well, I mean, there's tons and tons of research on that. They said that low fat diets are a major cause. And or contributor. And contributor to depression. Yeah. And it's just like our.

Well, our brains are either starved because we're not getting enough fat and protein or we're poisoned. We're literally being poisoned, especially in the United States. We are being poisoned by the so -called food that's being sold to us in grocery stores, gas stations, and fast food restaurants. Yeah, exactly. It is insane. Well, especially all the seed oils. The seed oils are just toxic. And that's in every fast food restaurant and in most of the food in the grocery store. And the food dies and the syrups.

Yeah, all of that is contributing to poor mental health. And you might be sitting there thinking like, what? No, how could high fructose corn syrup be causing my kids' rebellion? Well, it's messing with your brain. OK, here's the best way. Just step back. When you get hangry or tired, are you less patient? Are you more reactive? Do you think clearly? Stay at.

Greg & Rachel (27:22.214)
And most of you know this because you had a kid up all night or something's happened. Just just skip one night of sleep and and don't eat And let's see how clearly you think. Mm -hmm. Let's see if you're patient Yeah, if your behavior is aligned with your ideal self. Yeah, let's just let's push your limits a little bit Yeah, let's put you under a lot of stress a lot of pressure and then I'll be like Why aren't you behaving like your best self?

can't surely it can't be food or sleep sir and we all realize like yeah yeah it's just happening on a different level so your kids are just living on on Mountain Dew and Doritos and staying up late and sleeping in and you're wondering why they have bad behavior right there anyways that's a different topic we've covered before and we'll cover again I'm sure

But that's a fundamental issue. So start with that. Get that cleaned up. And to paint this picture here, because we talked about our teens and this vision of what teen life can be like, we do have to clarify that in order for it to be that way, there are a lot of fundamentals that we have in place that just help things to go a whole lot smoother. That's one of them. Our teens are allowed to choose their bedtime and what time they wake up.

but we've taught them the principle of the importance of good sleep. So they might choose their bedtime, but they're not staying up till one, two, three in the morning. If it's a late night, it's usually midnight or 1130. And then they wake up when they're rested, but they're not sleeping in till noon or 10 or 11. So those are foundational principles that are playing into all of this because that directly affects behavior and the behavior inner.

Why can't I think of the word? The behavior affects our interactions together as parent and child. So there's certain things like that, as well as the thing I mentioned before about building that bond with them while they're young that directly is impacting the relationships. Now, if you didn't do that, if you had a rough baby and child rearing phases, it's not too late. You can still.

Greg & Rachel (29:47.59)
build those bonds, but it is going to take more work because we have to understand, and I want to go over this really fast because I think it's important, the emotional bank account. Because that's going to really have an important, really play an important role in the relationship with your teens. And essentially the emotional bank account is whether or not the needs of your child are met. If they're met and you're meeting them, you can have capital with them. You have emotional capital. You have,

money in the bank, so to say. But if their needs were not met when they were children, they're also hungry, tired, depressed, they literally have a negative balance, they're overdrawn, and it's going to be so much harder for you to have the relationship with them that you want, and, as we'll get to in the question here, to be able to ask them to do things. Because you literally have an overdrawn account. And in most cases,

I would say almost 100%. If you can't ask your child, your teenager to do something without getting a negative response from them, it's most likely that you have an overdrawn emotional bank account with them. A great way that I like to think about this is that every interaction I have with them is either making a deposit or withdrawal. Yeah, every single interaction. Every single one. If I stop and think, and then I like to ask, what's my ratio?

and it's easy to get a very low ratio of deposits and a very high ratio of withdrawals. Yes and this is important to understand it doesn't necessarily have to be a negative thing to make a withdrawal. Me asking them to wash the dishes that can be a withdrawal because it requires emotional capital. I have to have a positive balance in the account to be able to ask them to do something for me. Even though we think as parents

They should just do that. They owe me. Like I've given them so much. I've given them everything. They should just do it just because. It doesn't work that way, unfortunately. Plus we have to stop and say, how's that mindset working out for you? Well, OK, yes, actually. That is a good thing because I wanted to mention this earlier, so I'm glad you said that. Because one of the problems I see with parents is that

Greg & Rachel (32:07.206)
talking about how we do the things that work, like we're open -minded to what works too. Some parents won't do things because they think it's not supposed to be done that way. I'm not gonna do that, it shouldn't be that way. And in my mind I'm like, if I'm doing that, because I think this is how it should be done and it's not working, I'm going to stop doing that. I don't care if that's how it should be done. I don't care if that's the quote unquote right way, if it doesn't get the results I want, it's not the right way.

And I'm going to change my behavior and do something that actually works. And so that's why this approach I'm explaining works. Because yeah, even though they owe me, I've given birth to them, I've brought them into this world, that doesn't count for them on the day to day when I ask to do the dishes. I have to have a positive balance in their emotional bank account to be able to make that withdrawal. So yes, it is worth pointing out a couple of these things. Because we've heard them.

endlessly and we believed them early on. I'd have a conversation with other parents like kids should just be obedient. When I say something they do it. Like that and you think yeah I want obedient kids and that's like the most common thing and yet that's an absolute crap sandwich. It doesn't work and yet it's the calmest it was one of the most common parenting philosophies or mindset my kids should be obedient.

And the reason why it doesn't work is because often the most strictest parents have the worst relationships with their kids. That doesn't work in my mind. I don't care if you get the obedience. I don't care if you get them to do what you want. If they grow up and they don't like you, they don't respect you, they don't want to have a relationship with you. It didn't work. And they're rebelling behind your back. So we have insider information. Well, I've been working with teens for 25 years. I've literally been working with teens since I was a teen.

I've just built this relationship with trust, even with teens I meet for the first time. And they tell me what they're doing. And most parents, okay, so let me just lay this out. The strictest parents, those of you who are like, we are gonna be strict, we're gonna have lots of rules and laws and we're gonna keep the law of our family or whatever. The strictest parents have the most rebellious children. And especially because they're often secretly rebellious too.

Greg & Rachel (34:29.798)
And that parents don't know. Strictest parents are often the most... Naive? Yes, naive or clueless or just... I don't want to use derogatory words like clueless or ignorant, but like they don't know. They're the ones that are most likely to not know what their kids are actually doing. Yeah. Because if you're really strict, your kids get very, very good at hiding their behaviors. Right. Which was me too. I was that teen. But we've seen it because we also lead trips for youth and...

Our teens are completely open with us. They literally tell us everything. Everything they listen to, everything they do, we know it all. It doesn't mean we agree with it. I don't agree with all the songs my children listen to, but the point is they don't have to hide it from me. They know that they can listen to it when I'm around because we have that open type of relationship and they can be themselves in front of me. Where on these trips and stuff,

our teens will talk about how, well, this family's not allowed to listen to this music, but this teen loves to listen to it when he's not around his parents. And ironically, that teen who's not allowed will have a secret playlist that is so explicit and so horrible. Yeah, it's almost even the worst. It's the worst one. You're like, OK, the kids with the strictest parents with the, quote, highest standards, that kid has the secret music playlist that's the worst. Yeah. And they're...

the behaviors when they sneak out and do horrendous things. my gosh. It's like the child who's, who's controlled too tightly feels like they have to fight for their freedom and they go way farther than they would otherwise. They feel almost forced to go too far because of that kind of

Right and I can speak to this personally because that is exactly what happened to me when I was a teen my my dad was very controlling out of the goodness of his heart and It it just is human nature. I think that that actually backfires and has the opposite effect So I was making decisions and I vividly remember this I made decisions not based off of what was best for me and what I actually wanted But whether or not it would make my dad mad

Greg & Rachel (36:45.51)
That's not the place you want your teens to be. You don't want them to make a decision. I was trying to make him mad. I wanted to make him mad because it felt like a way of getting back at him for his control. And I knew raising my children, I did not want them to ever be in that place. I want them to make good decisions because they want to make good decisions. And the only way they can actually do that is if they have the freedom to make the decisions they want.

Which means they get to choose the kind of music they listen to. And we'll talk about it and we'll say, do you know what that means? wow, yeah. And then they may or may not choose to listen to it anymore. But the point is, well, they will, but sometimes they don't always. They do choose good music. Yeah, but the point is that they get to practice the skill of choosing for themselves rather than being told by me or you what they can and cannot do. Let me just like double emphasize that.

when we as parents tell our children and enforce what they can and cannot do, it rarely works. Well, they don't get to practice their decision -making muscles. Like, it is a muscle that you have to work out. You have to practice. And the fewer decisions you get to make about your life, including what music you listen to and what you wear and where you go and what you do and who you hang out with, all of those things, if they don't get to practice using those muscles, then when they actually do use them,

It's often in the wrong way. And, like me, they rebel against what you want and do the worst things that you don't want. And one of the only reasons they're doing it is simply because you controlled them and told them they couldn't do it. Exactly. Right. So I just want to emphasize this again. Control doesn't work. And I know why you're controlling, because you want your kids to make good choices.

But you forcing them to make a good choice is not the same as them making a good choice. And it often pushes them to make the wrong choices. Exactly. So your controlling desire. It's collusion. You're inadvertently contributing them to them making the wrong choices. So in a very real way, you are a dictator. And you are a totalitarian. And you're a communist. The term is authoritative. Authoritarian. You're authoritarian.

Greg & Rachel (39:12.55)
and a communist and a socialist in your own home while you're spouting how evil those things are in governments and societies. Like, never. I would fight to my last breath against a dictator. I'm like, have you looked around how you lead your house? You're the dictator in your own home. And it's causing all these problems. So I want more than anything else. And maybe maybe you've never even done this. Maybe.

not gone through this and so I invite you to do it. Go through this exercise. What do you want more than anything else for your kids? The number one thing always has been I want my kids to be absolutely superb, happy, healthy human beings. Mentally, emotionally, physically. The whole shebang. I want them to be successful, truly successful and happy. That's what I want for them. Next down, I want to have an incredible relationship with them. And in that, I want to...

And adult friendship, ultimately. Yes. I want to be great friends as adults with my kids, but I also want to be their mentor. I want to be able to, I want them to want to come to me for advice and counsel and like come seek guidance and bounce ideas off me. Even to tell me, Hey, I made a terrible mistake. I want them to come to me openly and build this beautiful relationship. And so wanting those two or three things the most more than anything else.

I got very strategic about what actually works to create those results, not what I heard about, well, you know, here's another example. Kids just have to work around the house. Like I do all this stuff, so they have to do their part and they're going to do it. There's no choice. It's like all day, every Saturday, chores. I hear this stuff and I look at them like, how's that working out for you? it's great.

Everyone just chores all day, every day Saturday. We get so much time. It's great. Like, well, what do your kids think about it? Are they willingly helping out? Are they just counting the days until they get out from under your thumb? Are they again? I mean, just we have to stop and say, how's that working out for you? You have these these strict ideas, these really fixed mindsets about how things are supposed to be. And in the.

Greg & Rachel (41:39.238)
vast majority of the time it's not working. Right. So ultimately if it's not working, if what you are doing is not working and it's not getting the results you want, then it's time to be open to other things. Let's get to the question. That was a long time to get the question, but that's okay. It's all very important stuff. We can go on and on and on and on. Like when we've got to get to the question. And all of this is very, we've already read the question. So everything we have said is very relevant to the specific answer.

The person who asked the question may be listening to this and be like, okay, there's lots of answers already. One more I have to pull in though as you pull up the question. Screen time is we just finished, and we talked about this, but we just finished The Anxious Generation. And specifically he says in there that social media is causing mental illness in our teen daughters. Specifically, it's worse for girls than boys.

And he used the word cause. It's not correlation. It's causation. Social media is causing mental illness. In fact, he has the data that shows from the time that essentially social media apps and selfies came out in 2010. Since then, depression and suicide in teens specifically has just gone through the roof. And he's saying that video games are causing our teen boys to be less

successful meaning they're less developed they less engaged less engaged they're just they're not succeeding less risk -taking which is actually a good thing right so right there just boom it's one of those other fundamentals if you have teen boys or teen daughters you're gonna have one of them if you have teens video games and social media are causing serious problems so if you want

avoid problems you want your kids to be healthy and happy and fit with all these other things even with this question you've got to remove those other things that are they're literally causing problems for our teens yes or not introduce them in the first place yep okay i just want to rant about that well what do i do i know we need to do a specific episode about that the video games out of my home how do i get the consoles out i'm like take them skeet shooting

Greg & Rachel (44:01.926)
throw that console up in the air and send a 12 gauge right through it. People think that we're kind of funny and joking about that, but often we're not. We are willing to, with fun and a good attitude and playfully, do those types of things. We are willing to make a statement to our children. Like, we didn't never had a console to shoot, but if we did, you would. And I would give a hundred dollar bill.

whichever of my kids would hit it. Yeah, we'd let them shoot it. Here's a hundred dollar bill. I'm giving you the 12 gauge. Obviously I'm gonna teach them how to use it first of all. Then I'm gonna throw that console up in the air. I'm like any one of you who gets it and I'll keep throwing up pieces until I'm out of money and the consoles demolish like a hundred hundred bucks. Whoever just destroys this sucker. Right, so you make it fun. They get a reward out of it but they get a lesson like this is how I feel about this trash. Right? It's gone. My children

It's classic, but they go to church and they get a bag of candy. Like every time we go to church, my kids get candy. I'm like, wow, what is this? But one time they got a huge bag of Skittles, like giant. I immediately cut a hole in it and I poured it down the toilet because I said, this is where candy goes, down the toilet. And people think that's extreme, but I'm like, no, I'm teaching you. This is an object lesson. I want you to know how seriously I feel about these things. And so we are, we're.

We are serious about that. We show them and we make it fun showing them how we feel about certain things. So it's extreme, but it works. By choice, our kids don't eat candy. Yeah. And they don't eat garbage and they don't play video games. And when they do, because they'll occasionally choose to, and they'll then they will come to us and be like, my gosh, I honestly feel sick after eating that. And we're like, yeah, well, that's good. Good that you're learning that. OK, here we go. Question.

One topic about teenagers that didn't get to ask. We have a 28 -day challenge where we have coaching every week and so we were talking about this, but this one didn't get asked. When you have a teenager who's generally a good kid, but when it comes to me asking about them to do something, they won't do it. Sometimes they're openly defiant. Anytime I come back to ask if it was done, the excuse is, I didn't hear you. Or...

Greg & Rachel (46:28.774)
I ask them to do something and they say, okay, and then they don't do it. I'm at a loss as to what to do. That's like right out of a parable in the New Testament. Yeah, exactly. If a father has two sons and asks them to go work in the vineyard. One says, no, I won't and doesn't and does it. And one says, yes, I will and doesn't do it. Exactly. Right. Now I lost my place. I'm at a loss as what to do. I'm trying so hard not to lose my cool.

They're super introverted, so taking away friend privileges is not a big deal. Let me finish. Let me finish. Yeah, because I've got lots of thoughts too. They don't do much all day. They aren't really motivated towards anything. The only thing they love at this point is ballroom dance, and that doesn't start until the fall. I hate to turn everything against them as a punishment, but I don't know how to hold them accountable. Any advice? First of all, don't turn anything against them as a punishment. This is, in my mind, this is a...

It's an error in the approach. Well, okay. In consequences. Sometimes I think, let's circle back. Yeah, that's a good thought actually. Most parenting fixed mindsets are heavy consequences. Discipline equals punishment. You get the punishment, you get the consequence. And we come up with anything like when I was growing up and I know in your house. I got grounded for months. It was the grounding for months.

Like there was some infraction, like that's it, you're grounded for months. You're like, what does that have to do with the infraction? Well, nothing, I'm just angry. So you get timeouts or spanking through whatever. Like, wait, hold on, how in the world can you even in your mind make any remote connection from the relevance of this action and this consequence? So yeah, that's one back to these fundamental foundational pieces that we have in our approach.

One of them is I never think of punishments. I never think that I need to punish my children. That's just not in my mindset or my vocabulary. I am not trying to punish my children for anything. And why? Because punishing doesn't work, for one thing. That's why. But that is one of the most common parenting strategies. Punish your kids. Right. And for many people, disciplining just equals punishment. You're trying to find a way to discipline them or to punish them. To me,

Greg & Rachel (48:47.878)
The only thing I'm trying to do is make connections. I'm trying to make real world connections so that they understand the long -term outcomes of their choices. So in a case like this, I would be trying to make the connection for them between what happens if you sit around and do nothing all day and don't do what you're asked long -term in your life. What's the long -term outcome of that? You're looking for natural consequences. Yeah. And connected consequences. Cognitive.

Connections in their heads they understand that makes sense their actions right behaviors and choices and attitudes and and the outcomes right so that Again, we have to emphasize this we want our kids to choose to do these things on their own not well I'm only gonna do this because somebody's sitting here watching and I'll be punished if I don't So reason so I don't know this, you know the exact specifics, but in my mind

in this case for me, if say I'm asking them to do the dishes and they don't do it or they said I didn't hear you, not as a punishment, but the next time they came to me and they said, what's for dinner? I might say like, I'm sorry, I didn't hear you. You wanted food? Wait, did you expect me to feed you? You wanted me to feed you? Wait, what? I asked you to do the dishes and they didn't get done. So I guess...

I'm not going to hear you when you ask for dinner. It's a playful way of bringing it around. We will do it playfully, but we'll be serious of like... Yeah, playfully serious. Wait a minute. You're asking me to feed you? I asked you to do the dishes and you didn't hear me, but now you're asking me for dinner. So I'm not hearing you. Exactly. And we're making it directly connected. And again, because that makes sense, right? A child doesn't want to help make dinner and they don't want to...

clean up after dinner, but they fully expect to be fed. And so we start making those connections early on. We're like, if you don't want to help with the dishes, then you don't get to have the food. You don't get to eat. Because we use the dishes to eat food. And if we don't clean them, then we don't eat. Because dishes are the natural consequence of eating. And so if they don't want to participate in the cleanup, then they don't get to participate in the eating. And we just start making that connection early on.

Greg & Rachel (51:07.75)
And pretty soon, guess what? Man, kids are like, I'll do the dishes. I love dishes because I love eating. And you start making those connections for them. It's not punishment. It's a natural consequence. And you're just constantly reiterating, wait a minute. You don't want to clean up your room? OK, well, you can sleep out back on the patio. Like, fine, I'm taking my bed. No, that's my bed that I bought. So you're not taking the bed. Fine, I'll sleep in the hammock. That's also my hammock.

I'm taking a sleeping bag. Did you buy that sleeping bag son? No you didn't. Well fine I'll just sleep in my clothes. Who paid for those clothes? You put on the clothes that you've purchased with your own money and go sleep out back for a couple nights and then we'll have a conversation about why it's important to clean up your room. Now I'm not doing this angry and fierce and crazy because some of you are listening like that's hardcore. I'm teaching natural consequences. Well and you're pointing out which something that

is obvious but unfortunately isn't that obvious to them. Like they don't often until you say it they honestly have never thought about it. They never thought like these aren't my clothes because I didn't buy them. They just grew up and always had clothes and always had food. Yeah they always had clothes they always had food which is as it should be right. I mean we're not we're in no way condoning condoning you not giving clothes and food to small children right. But as they get older and they start that's where entitlement starts to come in because they

They continue to have that childish mindset. And at some point you have to point out for them. Yet it is your job to begin to point out things that should be obvious but are not because they're not yet adults. And it's challenging. It's difficult to go from being a child to a teen because as a child everything was provided for me. Exactly. Everything was done for you. Mom and dad. I've always been able to have.

clothes and food and shelter and all this stuff. Like, why are you taking it away? It's like, well, cause you started teaching along the way a little bit, but now like, hey, you're, you're big enough now and capable enough. You need to start carrying your own weight. Well, and you need to start understanding how the world actually works that I have been providing for these things for you with my time and my money and my effort. And until you have that realization that, my gosh, yeah, actually all of this did come from mom and dad.

Greg & Rachel (53:31.494)
then you don't have any sense of gratitude or appreciation for it. And it's not like, I don't know that we've ever had to, we've never physically taken all of our children's clothes or anything like that, but we've definitely had the conversations. We've definitely talked through that, like, well actually I bought all those things. The conversations enough? I bought that phone. I bought that. Right. With usually like, the worst it's ever, and it's not even worse, like it was never even bad. It never got bad with any of them, because we're teaching them along the way.

And then when they push back a little bit, they're like, okay, well, like, how about you just go today without whatever. We just picked the whole day without it. We used to do this thing called Thor's Day, right? Because our kids loved Thor and Thor's Day was Thursday. And on Thor's Day, they were required to only eat the things that they bought for themselves. And prepared for themselves. And prepared for themselves. And it was very instructive because they then suddenly began to realize like,

Wait, I can't use salt? No, you didn't buy the salt. You have to buy your own salt. That was the coolest day ever. They went and bought some things and they came home like triumphant. They went to the store on their own, came home like, yeah, this is awesome. And they start preparing their food. I'm like, whoa, that's my salt. Like what? I don't need to buy a whole salt shaker. I'm like, it's my salt. I had to buy a whole salt shaker. I'm like, don't you dare touch my butter.

We didn't buy butter and salt because we just need a little bit. Like, well, it's mine. So they had to eat like plain pasta, no butter and salt. That was awesome. Right? But, and you know, that was such an instructive experience for them to help them begin to wrap their minds around the natural consequences in this world. Like how things actually work. If you want certain things, they don't just magically appear. Someone has to buy them.

and has to bring them home and put them in the kitchen. So that to me, like it's not about finding a punishment, but it is about helping them understand. Do you know where your food comes from and how it gets prepared and how it gets cleaned up and all of these things? No punishment has to be involved. You're simply teaching them the laws of nature and the world. Every human being has to, I would say, prepare, really starting it.

Greg & Rachel (55:48.262)
12 or 13 they start carrying more and more responsibility. But every human being as an adult has to like take care of themselves. So this young man you ask him to help with something. Okay this youth you ask him to help with something and he or she's like no. I didn't hear you or I forgot. And my guess is here's my guess because I've seen this a lot of times. They're they're using the internet.

Okay, so I was going to get to that actually because it says in here they're introverted, they aren't really motivated towards anything, and they don't really do much all day. They have to be doing something because I doubt it that they're sitting there staring at the wall. They're not. They're not sitting there staring at the wall. And some do some like they'll just sit there and do nothing. Nowadays they're probably listening to music and they're not realizing, but wait a minute, how are you listening to music?

Well, on my phone, like who bought the phone? Or even on the TV or the computer. Or it's on the wifi. You're like, who's paying? You're not allowed to use my wifi. Yeah. Without earning it. So. well fine. I'll just sit here. Sit where? That's my bed. That's my couch. Get off my couch. And again, I'm saying this with firmness, but I'll be smiling at my kids and I'll be like, get off my couch. And like, fine. I'll sit on the floor. I'm like, that's also my floor. Cause I'm paying for it.

I'm just gonna stare at the wall. That's my wall You want to just go outside and look at something God created cuz and get off my property Go right to the edge of them like fine. I'll sit on the grass I'm like I pay for that grass to look like grass Go go find something to get go down the street and where there's nobody taking care of and paying for it. Go sit there All right, and if you're in a desert he plays like yeah

Like that right there. And I'll take the kids. I'll be like, look, let's go to the desert. Like this is what happens when nobody's paying for it. When nobody's paying for it. This is kind of free. But if you say, if you become a squatter, I bet the cops will roll up. So it turns out you have to earn your spot in the world. And with a tactful conversation, fun, but firm, it usually never takes more than a conversation or a learning experience. And you all make it fun. Like, Hey, let's, let's.

Greg & Rachel (58:07.014)
Let's do something for the next 24 hours where the only thing you have access to is what you yourself have earned. Yeah. And so essentially, like to boil this down a little bit, all you're doing is you're looking at whatever is happening because despite what this says about they're not doing it, they're not doing much all day. I guarantee you they're eating. Yep. They're going to the bathroom and using toilet paper.

Yes, they're sitting somewhere. I'm sorry, I pay the sewage bill and you've never once in your whole life paid sewage. You are not using that. And you don't buy the toilet paper. Like what am I supposed to do? Figure it out. Yeah, but so you're just taking their normal existence and connecting it directly to their actions or lack of them. You have to make that connection.

And especially if they are doing something with anything you have bought, whether that's a TV or music or devices or entertainment at all. I'm sorry. That's gone. You don't get privileges without earning them. And the basics for earning them in a family life is doing your part. That's it. This is super, super important because Rachel, now you said don't punish your kids, but then you said take away all the entertainment. That sounds like a punishment.

There's a clear distinction here. We are not punishing our kids. We're pointing out that all these privileges you enjoy that you think should be, that you're entitled to, are actually available to you if you help carry the load. There's a team load here. All this stuff has to be done as a team. So in our house, it's the Denning team takes care of all these things. Those who participate in taking care of the responsibilities,

get the privilege of enjoying the other part of life. Yeah, and so we will have very clear discussions about the difference between rights and privileges. My children have a right to shelter. They have a right. Up to a certain age. Yeah, and that's not like luxurious shelter per se. They have a right to be clothed with basics. They have a right to basic food. They don't have a right to my nice expensive snacks.

Greg & Rachel (01:00:22.438)
and my specialty foods, they don't have a right to that. They don't have a right to eat a meal every time they want to eat a meal. They don't have a right to sit on my couch and do nothing all day. That is a privilege. And so if my children are receiving the privileges without fulfilling responsibilities, they lose privileges. And it's not a punishment, it's just natural consequence. Because if I, as an adult,

chose to not fulfill my responsibilities, guess what? I would lose my privileges. I would not have internet. I would not have water. I would not have electricity. I wouldn't have a house. Yeah. I was tired that day and I didn't want to work. It doesn't matter. That is how the world works. And so we are doing our children a disservice if we don't teach them in our own home that this is how the world works. And that is why so many youth are unprepared to go out into the world because they didn't learn at home.

that this is what it works. This is how it works. So if your child, your teen is having any privileges,

That is why they're responding the way they are. Because guess what? That is absolute human nature. If I have everything provided for me that I need, why would I make myself uncomfortable? Why would I go out of my way to do something that I actually don't have to do because I get everything I want anyways? Everything I want and need is provided. I don't have to lift a finger. So why would I?

sitting around doing nothing all day, well I'm gonna do that. I'm going to keep doing that. So that is actually the ultimate reason they continue to do what they're doing. There's a lot that goes into it. The emotional bank account goes into it. Everything we've talked about before goes into it. But if your children receive all the privileges without any of the responsibilities, that's why they will not do what you ask. They don't have to. They don't feel a need to. Guaranteed.

Greg & Rachel (01:02:23.654)
If you teach them, again, it has to be done with a smile, with fun. Although sometimes it's not. Sometimes you're like, no, I'm serious here. Well, right. You can be very firm and dead serious. I just, I'm kind of chuckling here because I imagine there's some listeners just sitting here saying like, you guys were just talking about not being dictators and authoritarians. And here you are, you're full on extremists, like putting your kids in the bare minimum.

clothes and the bare minimum of food. Which has actually never happened. Never ever happened. But we definitely talked about it. Our kids live this life of luxury, legitimately. Our kids live this phenomenal lifestyle, but it's only because they earn it. They help carry the load. If they ever stop, then they start losing privileges immediately. Yes, they start losing privileges. Like, bro, okay, you don't have to help us out today. That's fine, but I'm definitely not going to feel like I need to feed you. I'm definitely not doing that. Password on your...

Your device so that you can listen to audiobooks or... Not even your device. Like, no, you're not using my device and we're not giving you the password to the internet because you're not willing to help us. We're not willing to help you. Like, we're in a relationship here now. We're almost like, once you reach a certain age, we're bartering. Yeah. You help me with this chore. I will gladly let you use this device for an audiobook and I'll actually let you have some of my food and let you use my air fryer to prepare it. Like, we're good, bro.

And so because our kids operate like that, we live this phenomenal, phenomenal life. Because it's mutual respect. Exactly. They've learned to respect how it works, how the world works, and how it works in our family because we model it off the world. And they start operating like that. And so they respect the system. And when they respect the system, they actually then get everything they want. I mean, I think the perfect example within the last year is our 13 -year -old son.

Because as is normal, he started going through that phase of like, I don't want to do anything. I don't want to do chores. I don't want to work out. I don't want to do this or that or the other. But he did, he of course wanted all the privileges. And so we had to pull back on those privileges. Because that happens, it's just a fluctuation. Sometimes they end up getting all these privileges and then you're like, why are they not contributing? Why are they not helping there? And you pull back on the privileges. And of course, they put up a stink. That's just normal. Every person is going to do that. They're going to be like, what?

Greg & Rachel (01:04:45.094)
I used to get all this for nothing and now I have to work for it? Wait, responsibility and maturity? This is painful. But trust me, if you just stick firm and stay true to what you have said and say, yeah, if you want this privilege, this is what you've got to do. Over a period of time, and for me it's never been longer than a week, they'll finally say, okay, fine. And then they do it.

And then once they do it, then they get into the habit of doing it. And so over time, that's what's happened with him. He'll be 14 in September. And now today he gets up early. He goes and works out. Let me paint this picture. I'm out. I'm always the first one up. And I'm out. I listen to scripture study while I go out with my dogs and kind of check on animals and things around the property. And early I hear the music rocking in the gym.

what's going on? It was him. This kid who a year ago, like it was effort to get him to do anything that required effort. And we knew that all of our kids have been through this phase. So we knew what we were doing and we're working through it. He's in there on his own, hitting it hard. And he comes in, you know, breathing hard, sweating. I'm like, yeah. He has made it through the phase now.

of no effort and he's helping out everywhere all the time. And part of the way, part of how we got him to that was again strategy, being strategic because he lost the privilege of being able to listen to any music, any pop music. Because he wanted to layer on the couch all day and listen to music. And stay up late sneaking video games. Yeah. So we removed those options and that's pretty simple if you're strategic. You just, you put

pass codes on the devices and screen time and downtime and you can lock them down, right? Simple to remove. And then so specifically, he wasn't allowed to listen to any pop music anymore. Unless he was one, working out, or two, had practiced the piano. And for the amount of time he practiced the piano, that's how long he would get to listen to pop music. So the longer he practices, the more...

Greg & Rachel (01:06:55.782)
He gets to listen. Which means he's getting really good at piano. Exactly. He is. This is awesome. And this is a kid who a year ago and before that told me he would never learn an instrument. No, I'm never going to learn an instrument. And I'm like, no, you will eventually. Because if he has enough motivation, then he will. So with that motivation, he didn't get the privilege of listening to pop music, mostly because you have to use a device to do it. And who owns the devices? I do. And it's a privilege.

So if you want the music, you have to earn it with action. He also didn't have access to devices unless he wanted to listen to an audiobook, in which case he was required to do chores while he listened to audiobooks. Well now, today, all the time, these, you know, the past few weeks, he's doing chores all day long. I mean, this kid keeps our apartment completely clean because

He's listening to an audiobook while he does the dishes and loads the dishwasher and unloads and sweeps and vacuums and like everything. That's how I get the chores done in our house because he is listening to an audiobook. But he only gets that because he does the chores. He's not allowed to listen to the audiobook and sit around on the couch and do nothing. That doesn't help him learn to be more responsible and to be more mature. Now, originally when we implemented this strategy, which is a strategy similar to what we've done with all of our teens,

There's always resistance. There's always complaining. There's always kind of a huffiness about it. Now though, it's second nature. And this is the amazing thing, it's now what he wants to do. He wants to do these things. Because once he gets over the inertia and the resistance of not doing it, then he realizes like, well actually this is something I want to do. It feels better to be more productive. It feels good to work out. It feels good to clean something. Exactly. To make something nice. Like getting up and.

putting in effort to do, to be responsible actually feels really, really good. Exactly. And he's into that now. Yeah. Okay, so with this youth in this very specific question, here's how I would handle the whole thing. I would walk up, I would touch the child on the shoulder or the arm, and I would ask them to look at me. Then I would gently ask, say, will you please make sure all the...

Greg & Rachel (01:09:19.91)
The laundry in the laundry room gets washed, dried, and folded. That might be too much to start with for someone who's not used to doing anything. Unless they've been trained to do that stuff. Rachel's going to be nicer, but I'm going to go in and I'm going to ask that. And then we'll go, whatever. But I am absolutely removing this, I didn't hear you crap. I'll say, son, will you please repeat that back to me? Fine. You want me to do all of them? Yes, I do. And I want you to do it.

before dinner tonight if you would like to eat with us. Okay and Rachel's nicer than I am. I'm gonna teach them right in fact maybe this is what I do I'd make a breakfast and I have everyone come sit down and I said nobody is allowed to eat another bite of food in this house here's why who pays for the food dad does who pays for the rent or the mortgage who pays utilities

And I would take a piece of paper and write it out. We've done here's the mortgage, here's utilities, here's the internet, here's food. I'm right on. Okay. It's like, here's it's, you know, $7 ,000 for you to enjoy our life. Right. I'm just throwing out numbers and, and they're like, Whoa. And I'm like, and, and what we ask you to do is to help around the house. So I've made breakfast. I've outlined a bunch of this in my family systems and charts. So everyone needs to get Rachel's family system charged and you actually have to implement it. It's so powerful.

And so they say, nobody is allowed to eat breakfast this morning until beds are made, rooms look decent or clean, brush teeth, the things like you have to do to get a big one. Well, I mean, going back to the foundational things, I mean, that is one of the things. Things, things. And I teach it in the family charts and course. They are not allowed to come and have breakfast until they've done their morning routine, which includes making their bed, brushing their teeth.

grooming themselves, getting dressed, like all of those are requirements. Those are their responsibilities to earn the privilege of a breakfast specifically if it's prepared by me especially. Well especially but I'm saying my approach is like all this food, all of this food in this house is mine. So you may eat my food if you help me with the team denning responsibilities. And especially if you

Greg & Rachel (01:11:42.95)
Take care of yourself as you were supposed to do like why am I take care of your bed? Take care of your clothes space your space That's just a basic requirement to start the day. That's tough just kills me. So, okay, seriously I want to specifically answer this so I'm like you're you're not allowed to do this and you'll have a kid or two be like fine I won't eat like well, you're not eating another bite of my food unless you earn it and I've had this conversation with every one of my children

Like it's my food. I work. I buy it. You may have some of my food when you earn it. Period. Fine. I'll just fast like, OK, where are you going to fast? And I'll go through the whole thing. And if the kid keeps pushing, I'm going to like this again. This is loving but firm. If the kid keeps pushing, I'll be like, you're not doing it on my couch. You're not doing it in my bedroom that you call your bedroom.

and on my bed that you call your bed. Like this, this is unacceptable. Like sitting around doing nothing. Like, do you know how much it costs me for you to do nothing? And they don't. That's the point. Yeah. Do you know it costs you so many? We figured out for each kid, like at one point it was like $1 ,300 a kid. I was like, it is $1 ,300 for you to sit around doing nothing this month. That is unacceptable. You're earning that.

Well, and this is the point, because I know that people feel like this may sound harsh, but if we don't have those hard conversations with our kids, who will? That's what I'm trying to emphasize here. They're not going to know this on their own. They're not going to just come to their conclusion. They're not going to be sitting in their room thinking like, my gosh, mom and dad provide all of this for me and pay for all this. They don't think like that. They think their existence is true. Yeah.

They have to have it pointed out to them. And some of the best times to point it out, it's great if you point it out beforehand. Like, preventative measures are fantastic. But if you're in a situation like this where they're not responding and they're not helping out, you have to have that hard conversation. And yes, sometimes it's not going to be completely all the time with smiles and rainbows. But if you're not willing to have that hard conversation and to hold some firm boundaries, and not in a dictatorial way, but in a

Greg & Rachel (01:14:08.806)
I don't know, like, The Anatomy of Peace is a great book. Like, you can do this with a heart of peace, not a heart of war. You don't have to be at war with your children, but you can peacefully, because you love them, say, no, this is how it works. Sorry, no, I'm not going to do that because that's not for your best good. So I'm going to hold these firm boundaries and help you understand and require you.

to step up, to level up, and to actually help out and be responsible because that is for your best long -term well -being. That is how you will become a capable, competent adult who can handle life in the world. That's our job. We are responsible, duty -bound as their parents, to have these conversations and to help them get this understanding. And they need to know after repetition and example that

It is absolutely unacceptable to sit around doing nothing. Yeah. And I'll tell them, like, if mom and I sat around doing nothing, if we all sat around for the next month, like you've been doing, doing nothing, yeah, we would lose everything. All of us would be homeless on the street. That's how life works. So why, and maybe ask them, why do you think you're any different? Yeah. Why is it that you think you can sit around here all summer

doing nothing while I pay for you to have this luxurious entertaining life. Yeah. What's going on in your head that you think I should pay for you to do nothing? Please enlighten me. Where does this come from? Well, and time that in. They'll be like,

Most of the time it's just kind of cluelessness. Yeah, and once they become aware of it, they're kind of like, wow. It cost you $1 ,300 just for me to exist?

Greg & Rachel (01:16:05.414)
Whoa. Yeah. And tying that in here, you know, so first of all, even though she says they don't do much all day, well, they're doing something, obviously. They're eating. They're using electricity. They're using power. They're using internet. They're sleeping in your bed. That all has a cost. Add it up. Like literally, do the math. And then show them, hey, here's the math. I did the math on you doing nothing all day. Here's what it looks like. Have them do the math. Well. But give them some numbers. Yeah. And then even then the ballroom thing. Again, it's not.

Punishment, but you're pointing out who's paying for this ballroom now like that's even an extra privilege So basically you're telling me and you can do this You're telling me that you should not have to do any dishes or any chores or help out at all And it cost me all this money, and it cost me the money for ballroom camp, but you should just get that for free Like you don't have to earn that is that what you're telling me and when you turn it like that when you

present it to them that way and you help them have this awareness and understanding. It's not that our kids are trying to be manipulative per se or trying to be entitled on purpose. They just don't have any other framework unless we give it to them. So we have to point it out. On the note of like ballroom, our philosophy is we would never take away ballroom unless

some behavior related to ballroom was the issue. But we would definitely point out that, hey, that is costing us money. Ballroom has a cost. It has a cost. Here's what I'd do. Hey, we're sending you ballroom camp. It's $600. What would you like to do to earn the equivalent of that? Because it's not a free ride. Maybe that's in chores. So it's like extra chores. Basically, there's no free rides. Keep telling your kids all the time. There's no such thing as a free ride. Nothing is free. Everything has a cost. So you keep teaching them.

But don't go taking away like, fine, you're not going to that on that cool trip next summer because of this thing with this bad friend down the street. It's like, wait a minute. Why would you take away the life -changing trip because of the friend down the street? You're just reaching for anything in anger and frustration or whatever.

Greg & Rachel (01:18:21.99)
The only way to take away the trip is if there's a behavior related to the trip. The only way to take away a ballroom is if there's a behavior related to ballroom. There's got to be a connection. Generally in our approach, we don't want to take those things away at all because they are opportunities for learning and growth and improvement. We want them to have those things. And I want my kids to know that. I want you to do all these things. But I also don't want you to be a lazy slug.

I want you to be productive. I want you to grow in other ways not just in ballroom. So here's a perfect example. We are taking our kids next week to London, Kazakhstan, Mongolia. We leave in two days. And then Qatar. And it's gonna be this epic epic adventures. And in the idea of no free rides, we're like hey you guys need to pay your own way. Right now it's a little bit tricky.

Being in a foreign country for them to earn money outside of our home So we made arrangements like well you guys work for us because we need to get our world school family resort all done up so You're gonna work for us doing jobs that need to be done here to get this ready in exchange for the cost of this trip Exactly, and so they gladly went to work and earned it and so just look for opportunities like that

And we can pretty quickly and easily remove entitled negative bad attitude behaviors and defiant attitudes better really lean into a teenager who is helpful and jovial and patient and hardworking and grateful, willing to do whatever you ask. Now, if Rachel goes to any one of our kids and says, will you please do this?

It's gonna get done. And that's it. All she has to do is say, will you please do this? It's amazing. No fighting back. No, I didn't hear you. No, like they just do it. Well, and what I love because, you know, all of our older children, they now teach their younger siblings and they emphasize this and they will tell them, I've heard them say, you better do everything mom asks you.

Greg & Rachel (01:20:39.846)
She just asks you to do that and the younger ones especially will be like, you better do that. You need to do that because we do what they ask. And they emphasize the point. Do you know how much they do for us? Do you know how much they pay for that? They provide this. You need to help out when you're asked. And they are the ones passing on this culture, this idea, this thing. And with love, with sincerity, and with gratitude. Not because they're afraid of us or something.

It's not out of fear and it's it's beautiful. It's wonderful. That's awesome. And they respect us. So we could do an entire podcast on this. In fact, I think we've done that. I've done I've talked about a lot, but the most powerful influence you have on your children's life is earning their respect. If your children respect you, they will listen. They will obey.

They will follow. They will love you if they respect you. But if your life and your way of being isn't respectable, you're making it really hard for them to respect you. And if that respect is not earned because going back to the idea of, well, we think they should just respect us just because we're their parents. Unfortunately, it doesn't work that way either. And it shouldn't. It shouldn't work that way. You should not.

Nobody like just gets respect. Just because. And you're like, well, I'm the parent. So why wipe your butt? I don't care. I pay for it. So what? None of that earns respect. Respect is earned. It is only earned. And if you as a parent are not earning respect, you're going to have the hardest time ever getting your kids to respect you and to engage in all these things. So respect is earned.

be the caliber and kind of person that easily earns and gets respect and everything changes. It's amazing. Okay. Good. Yeah. That was a lot of fantastic steps. Excellent. Excellent question. Thank you for that. And I just want to reemphasize.

Greg & Rachel (01:22:55.846)
The teen years.

can be some of the sweetest and best years of family life. I've loved every stage. I sincerely have loved every stage. And I love this teen stage. There's so much we get to do. And we're just playing and working at a much higher level now. I mean, I work hard with my kids. And man, I love working hard with them. And they love it.

We play hard and man, I love playing hard with my kids and they love it. It is such a cool part of life and you can have it too listeners. Because it's just strategy. This is formula. It's just skills and and as we work on those things, we can get those same results and outcomes. So don't give up hope of that. Don't ever lose the vision of of having your teen years be that way in spite of.

everything else you see around you which is is not stellar it's mediocre at best but you can hold up a higher vision and make it a reality okay love you guys reach upward.