Achieve Optimal Mental Well-being: Insights from Alan Cox on the Pillars of Mental Health

[00:00:00] Let's for a moment, just imagine, like, an oak tree or whatever, whatever thing you can think of. But let's just say an oak tree and all of this, all of the stuff that you can see above the top is, is your well being and underneath the. The root system that imagine there's these, like, major, um, roots that basically are what govern the strength of that tree.

Like, how to what extent is flourishing. Well, that that is basically the case for our mental well being. Like, 1 of the root systems is. Um, you know, to what extent do you experience positive relationships? Another one is, um, growth and achievement. Another one is, um, being able to be present without worrying about the future or ruminating on the past.

And I won't go through all of the pillars. Like, we have nine of these pillars, um, based on psychology. And what I'm trying to, what I, what I'm trying to convey here [00:01:00] is that if you, if you, um, If you can think like, um, help me out here. Um, there's, um, don't like in, in audio, like you, you, there's like a spectrum thing of like, what, what the various parts of the music, do you know what I mean?

Frequencies. Yeah. So, um, do you know, like where you. You set all different parts of the, you know, like the lower frequencies you want up at this point and, you know, imagine that shape, right? Everyone has a very different shape, right? And the, the trick, the trick is, is to understand what your shape is and then work on the areas where you are lowest.

Here's the million dollar question. [00:02:00] How do men like us reach our full potential? Growing to the men we dream of being while taking care of our responsibilities, working, being good husbands, fathers, and still take care of ourselves? Well, that's the big question. In this podcast, we'll help you answer those questions and more.

My name is Brent and welcome to the Fallible Man Podcast.

Welcome to the fallible man podcast. You're home for all things, man, husband and father, big shout out to fallible nation. You guys keep us doing shows like this and we love you and are so grateful for you and a warm welcome to our first time listeners. Thanks for giving us a chance. I hope you enjoy the show.

My name is Brent. Today. My special guest is entrepreneur, innovator and mental health change maker Alan Cox. Alan, welcome to the fallible man podcast. Hey, um, thanks very much for having me on. It's gonna. It's going to be a good conversation. I'm sure. I'm, I'm very excited about today's conversation. Now we like things, [00:03:00] take things, you know, ease into it a little bit.

So we have the pointless trivia show question of the show, and it's just a random query question and you'll take your best shot at it and we'll figure it out at the end. How's that? Oh, I'm a bit nervous now. So the question, random trivia question for the show is what state of the U. S. has the record for the fastest surface wind?

Is it a Illinois B, New Hampshire, C Montana, Rd, Alaska, Montana. All right, guys, you know, the rules. Nobody cheats. Don't look it up, make your guests, write it down. If you're in the car, please don't write it down while you're driving. Just make a mental note and we'll get back to that. Now, Alan, I don't do big introductions cause no one actually cares about accolades these days and it doesn't really tell the audience who you are.

So in your own words today, this day. Who is Alan? Um, [00:04:00] so I'm a very happily married man after 30 odd years of marriage, uh, still with, uh, still with my first and ever, um, love. Um, I've, I'm someone that's in a very happy place. Uh, you know, strong mental well being. Um, I'm the owner of a Uh, a mental health, uh, app startup.

Um, and yeah, I'm, I'm enjoying life right now. All right. And congratulations on 30 years. That is an awesome, awesome feat, especially in this modern era where you don't see that very often. Uh, that's, that's quite a thing. That's awesome. Uh, I've, I'm always, I'm always excited to see what couples. Make it and, uh, you just don't see that all the time anymore.

Yeah. Yeah, it's, um, it's, it's just, it just feels, yeah, we, I mean, we've been through some, you know, [00:05:00] obviously some really tough times and, uh, times where that, that kind of connection gets really stretched. But, um, when our apart, pot pot pot. Point in time where we've, you know, the clouds have gone away and, um, the kids have moved away and went out onto, uh, on a new, onto a new chapter and it's, it's, it's, it's currently, it's, uh, it's reading the chapters, reading out quite well.

Excellent. Excellent. That, that is a hard transition for a lot of people is when the kids finally move out and. Or off in their own. Uh, that's actually a big struggle time for a lot of couples. So, you know, you guys are off to a good start and that's very, very excellent. Yeah. My wife and I are 22 years on at this point, and, uh, are excited for the next 22 years.

Well, yeah. Gone. Congratulations. That's still very good. I, I'm actually really surprised these days how often I run into people and it's like, we're the old married couple at 22 years. I'm like. [00:06:00] I, I grew up with people who were married for like 40, 50, 60 years, man. I, it just blows my mind how life has changed.

Now, Alan, if you could have a conversation with anyone in history, who would it be and why? Oh, do you know what? I've been, I've been asked this question. At least three or four times and I always find it difficult to answer because there's just there's just so many there's just so many people, you know, um, you know, I think of people like, you know, Gandhi when he was going through all of the struggles and I'd love to, you know, see how we managed to keep internal peace with so much like tragedy going on around him.

Nelson Mandela, like, um, Muhammad Ali. There's just so many people. I I'm, I'm sorry. I can't give one person. I was going to say, you know, if you've been asked this several times, you should know this one [00:07:00] by now. Now that that's fine. That's I like to ask that question, but it's for this reason alone, people are so complicated and there's so much depth to human being that it kind of lets you see bigger visions of who they want to be when you ask those questions.

But yeah, no, I, I've been on the other end of the mic too, and it is a different, difficult question. Yeah, it's, it's kind of like, um, going to like a, like a pastry stand, right? And you, you, you, you, you want, you want, you want to buy something sweet to eat and there's all the, you know, every one of them looks gorgeous, right?

Like, how do you pick, right? So, oh, yeah, no, I, uh, that entirely people were, people were funny. I actually had to stop asking, I had to start asking people not to answer Jesus because. Uh, there, there's in a lot of cultures, right? Christianity is prevalent [00:08:00] and everybody feels like that's the default answer.

They have to answer. It's like, no, no, no. It's okay. Yeah, I understand. That's, that's the, that's the proper Jesus button. Okay. Yeah. You said it now. Who else? You don't have to answer that. It just becomes funny after a while. After you ask enough people. What is your go to comfort food or guilty pleasure snack?

Um, yeah, probably hazelnut chocolate probably. Okay. Hazelnut chocolate. We have, um, so growing up in the UK, um, Cadbury's chocolate was the go to chocolate. And in New Zealand, um, there's a brand called, uh, Whittaker's. And. The chocolate here was quite hard to adjust to and initially because they put a lot less sugar in it.

Okay, um, and [00:09:00] the, the Whitaker's chocolate, um, in the last 5 years or so as they basically have got this new, um, process of refining the cocoa. Like, it's like 5 times ground or rolled or whatever they call it. And it's just so incredibly smooth. It's like, like, It's it's very it's very I don't know if you've had belgian chocolate before but you know, it's it's very close And you know, so you've got something that's a similar price to say cadbury's, you know, very affordable Um, and it's delicious and and that's not such a good thing actually

I understand I I i'm an ice cream like that's my go to come and Okay, what what flavor? Oh, i'm i like a lot of them if i'm buying it commercially I like ben and jerry's chunky monkey, right? [00:10:00] Uh, I grew up my mom I grew up with my mom doing a lot of church potlucks And ice cream socials and she would always make banana ice cream, right?

And so that that ben and jerry's chunky monkey with the banana ice cream just hits that deep seated emotional memory Yeah, yeah of growing up with the banana ice cream. So yeah, I don't know why but i've I've, I've, I've kind of developed this, um, I don't know, kind of a taste for things that are fairly neutral, you know, like I've, I've never, I've never, I've never been into drinking, um, say cans of soda or anything like that.

Um, I mean, I, I've still got all my teeth without out any fillings at the, at the age of 56. So it shows I, I wasn't really into sweets and things. Um, but you know, um. I like things kind of in a fairly pure form, I suppose, you know, like I really like [00:11:00] so instead of like a really fancy pizza, I really appreciate just a classic Marguerite or whatever they're called Neapolitan or whatever.

Um, and with ice cream, I'm the same. I love, love, love ice cream. Um, but my go to would be just a really good vanilla, you know, it's, um, yeah, and, um. Just, just the way, just, just the way I'm wired. I like, I like vanilla bean. Yeah. Pure, high quality vanilla bean. It's just so good. Yeah. It was so good. Yeah, exactly right.

Alan, what purchase of a hundred dollars or less have you made in the last year that's had the biggest impact on your life? Hundred dollars or less in the last year. Um,

I, do you know what? I don't actually buy much nowadays. Like when, when you, when you get to my age. Like I know whenever it comes around to birthdays and things like it's a it's a nightmare for my wife, [00:12:00] you know, because Yeah, actually I can tell you right I can tell you i've got it. So right now, um it's It gets pretty cold here in new zealand this time of year and When we go to bed the the the the bit that keeps you awake is is your feet being cold, right?

So about a month ago I spent about, I think, I think it was quite, quite, quite a lot of money per pair of socks, right? It was, uh, about 45 for, um, a pair of POS, a mix of POSM and Merino socks. Right. And they are super thick. Super warm and, and they're also kind of, do you know how like socks, like when you have them in bed, they can kind of be grippy, um, they, these socks just slide over the, you know, so you feel, still feel really free [00:13:00] and yeah, they've, they've made a big difference.

They, they help me get off to sleep pretty quickly. Hey, sleep is important. I never underestimate anything that helps you get a better night's sleep is, is high on my list of good investments. Exactly. And it doesn't, doesn't, doesn't have to take a lot of money, uh, to get a good night's sleep. No, no, you, you find the right combination.

Just better habits, you know, make your environment good. Alan, what are you most proud of?

Um, I think I'm most proud of, I'm most proud of my wife for sticking with me. Um, through... Everything that I put her through like, I mean, don't get me wrong. Um, there's never been any kind of kind of harm or abuse or anything like that, but like through when you're when you're going through the kind of debts that [00:14:00] I went through, um, you can, you can say some pretty nasty things, right?

Um, that's, you know, you're just lashing out at everyone. And, um, and yeah, having, um, Stuck with me through years of that, when, you know, I think many people could have easily walked away. Yeah, I think that's what I'm most proud of. What's one random fact people don't know about you? Um, so, in New Zealand, um, one of the craziest things to do is to, um, bungee jump, right?

Um, and, and the home of bungee jumping in New Zealand, um, is this place called Skippers Canyon. And, um, And I, I went, I went first and my wife, um, came, went after me and as they collect you in a boat, [00:15:00] right? And I, I basically, I basically, when you're, when you're in the boat, they basically say, Oh, would you like to go again?

And it's only like another 50 bucks or whatever, right? And I bet they must get a high hit rate because your adrenaline is, you know, going through the roof. And I said, Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'll do it. And my wife got into the boat and she said, I will never ever do that again. That was terrible. And I said, Oh, well, I'm going to do it again.

And, and so she had to do it again. But when I did it, I thought, right, I'm going to, I'm going to one up her this time. And so I'm, I'm one of the few people that have, um, bungee jumped backwards. So I, um, it's hard, it's hard enough when you're looking down and there's... Just nothing below you. It's hard enough jumping off, but, um, I basically did like, um, I don't know, a Superman pose kind of thing.

And just threw myself backwards and, [00:16:00] um, pretty crazy thing to do. So that's not, not a lot of people know that. All right. I gotta admit, I would be, uh, I I've damaged my back enough. I'd be terrified to go bungee jumping. Oh, it probably pull it into shape. I know I've broken it twice. I just, I games at this point.

Yeah, when you want to do that, I've seen videos of my friends getting whipped around like a ragdoll. I'm like, yeah, that just starts hurting sympathetically. Yeah. It's, it's actually, it's actually a lot, it's actually a lot smoother than what it looks, you know? I mean, the, the, the big thing that they tell you is to actually kind of properly dive off so that your legs, you're like, your feet are up when the tension goes.

What a lot of people do that are kind of more nervous. They just jump out with their feet going down and that's when they get whipped around, you know, and, but it's there, but it's their fault. Cause I didn't follow [00:17:00] instructions. You see, Alan, before we get into. The subject of today's show. What's something everyone should know about you as we're digging in?

Um, well, something everyone's, I think, I think that just really around my, I'd like people just to know about my mission. Um, so, um, I basically not only got myself back to a good mental wellbeing, but I actually kind of. Went on to a place that has opened up so many new opportunities for me and and, um, you know, I kind of, you know, you kind of feel like you've got this superpower really.

And, um, and I, I just want to like, you know, I've lost a friend to suicide and things like that. And I just want to give this gift to as many people as I can. So, um, you [00:18:00] know, the yeah. The company that I've, uh, that I'm, you know, running now, you know, we've, we're, we're already achieving that for thousands of people around the world.

You know, like someone said to me, like what on, on another podcast the other day, they said like, what, you know, what, what will success look like for you, you know? And, um, and I said, look, even if I. Sorry if I'm ranting on a bit here, but I told this, I told this story how, um, my mom basically got terminal cancer a few years ago.

And I asked her in the hospice, like, what are you most proud of? And she, she really couldn't answer. Like she, she's one of these people that was a people pleaser and, um, didn't really do much, you know? Um, and I just, I wouldn't wish that on anybody. Um, and. Anyway, so I think if I was in a similar situation now, I think I'd be very [00:19:00] like proud of what I've already achieved, you know, and, um, you know, I, although, although the app isn't really for people that are kind of, it wasn't necessarily designed for people with Like severe mental health problems, but I have I have been had, um, letters written to me saying, Hey, look, you know, this is this is what I was going through and and after a month or two of using your app, I'm now doing this and, um, and and some of those things, some of those letters, they don't.

Actually say that, like, say I was suicidal or whatever, but you get a sense that there was, you know, a self harm ideation going on. And so, yeah, I think, I think I just liked people to know that I'm, I'm already content with what I've achieved. I just, um, and I just want to do this for as many people as I can.

Fair enough, guys. We've been getting to know [00:20:00] Alan a little bit and just who he is and what he's really about and the next part of the show, we're going to dive into. Men's mental health and just guys, you know, this subject is near and dear to my heart. And so I'm really excited for this conversation. I think Alan has a lot to contribute to this space.

We're gonna roll out our sponsor and we will be right back with more from Alan Cox. Now, before we go any further, I wanted to share with you guys, I don't always tell you how much I love doing my podcast. Like I passionately love what I'm doing. And one of the things that makes my life better as a podcaster is to work with a company like Grow Your Show.

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I guarantee it. I trust him. He's [00:21:00] my friend. He's my business. And I wouldn't trust anybody else with my show guys. Welcome back. And the first part of the show, we spent some time just getting to know Alan a little bit and what he's about. And this part of the show, we're going to dive into men's mental health.

Now, Alan, to really kind of set the stage and where we're going with all this. Can you tell us a little bit about you and how you ended up focused on helping other people build better mental health? Um, well, I guess I had up until the age of about 40, I'd had. long kind of struggles with mental health.

And so, um, I already knew how much kind of that impacts your life kind of thing. Um, And there was an event, you know, I, I, I, I basically nearly got killed in the Canterbury Earthquakes and that led to me losing my [00:22:00] business and, um, uh, then having quite a severe mental breakdown. And the prognosis at the time was, was actually, uh, really quite bad for me.

And I, I was kind of in a hopeless situation. And, um, but just through. Like a series of events, I guess the, um, one in particular that I basically went on a journey of kind of learning about how my mind works and and and how how I can fix it and and that that not only took me back to a place of, um, you know, good mental health, but it actually produce kind of so many different, um, unexpected other outcomes that were really [00:23:00] beneficial to like living a more conducive and fulfilling life.

Right. And, um, and then, so I had already been through this massive transformation myself. And, um, and I remember at the time I was Doing some consulting work with, like, one of the local councils here and man, like, you know, with all the red tape and bureaucracy and, like, narrow thinking, all this kind of stuff, it was actually starting to make me feel like worse again.

And I, and I, I basically, uh, thought, no, I'm not going to, I'm not going to continue down this path. I'm going to. You know, um, snippet in the bud kind of thing. Um, and at, at that, at around that same time, um, there was a lot in the media about, you know, um, mental health. There was people like [00:24:00] Anthony. I used to, you know, watch Antoni Bourdain and, um, and, you know, he took his life.

And then there, you know, I used to, you know, uh, quite, you know, listening to people like aci, he took his life. Then a close friend of mine took his life, and I, I thought, look. I, I know that, I know that what I know now can be used by so many people to kind of. Escape this kind of treadmill of misery, if you like.

And, um, and that's when I decided to do something. Everybody has a starting point. You almost died in an earthquake. That sounds really bad. Yeah, it wasn't nice. Yeah, it wasn't nice. But, hey, right? It was kind of a catalyst moment for you to go, hmm. Let's look at life a little differently. So, you know, right.

Sunny side up, you know, if you can take the upside of [00:25:00] something, uh, absolutely. That's a big jump. Of course, that the mental health is something that we don't talk about as men. Very often. It's not a very comfortable subject for a lot of men. And I think it's very

detrimental that we don't have more conversations about mental health. So it's incredible that you have gone on. I'm going to do something about this. I love that you did that. So what do you think is so scary about the topic of mental health for men? Is it just the way we normally tell people to deal with it?

Or what do you think? I think, I think there's so, I think there's a lot of different kind of forces, if you like, that kind of, uh, pull together. And, um, one of them is kind of like this macho thing. Like I, I, I need [00:26:00] to just struggle through whatever, you know, um, you know, men aren't, men aren't good at kind of, Being vulnerable or whatever like that, right?

So you got that, you got that thing, but I think, I think one of the, one of the biggest things for me is that the very term mental health for most people means poor mental health, like when it, you know, whenever you're hearing any discussions in the media or whatever, and you hear the phrase mental health, it basically has kind of a negative connotation to it, right?

And when, what, what I kind of discovered that might help to kind of, I guess, position that is, is that if you, if you think of. If you think of mental health as being like a scale of 1 to 10, where [00:27:00] 1 is you're potentially, you know, as bad as it can be, and 10, you're kind of more enlightened than the Dalai Lama, right?

Um, around the 3 mark is where if you was to say, go to a doctor and say, look, I think I'm... Depressed or something, they would do an analysis, you know, it's like a world standard set of questions I'd ask you and around the three markers where you transition from being mentally well to mentally unwell. The vast majority of society is probably somewhere between like four and six.

In fact, if you think of a bell curve, right? Um, most, most of us are around five, five and a half, something like that. So I think for, for many people, Um, they are [00:28:00] technically mentally health, right? Or mentally well in the sense, in the sense that they, they, um, they're not unwell and they don't, they maybe don't need to talk to a psychologist or whatever.

But they're, they're far from thriving, right? That, you know, um, so I, I, I kind of feel like for many blokes in particular, and I was 1 of these people, um, you, you are just going, you're just going through each day, almost not even thinking about it. You're not. Like, I, I do wonder whether, you know, the, the kind of, um, statement that men don't like talking about their mental health and what have you, I, I think it's maybe overplayed in the sense that I think the bigger [00:29:00] problem is that it doesn't even occur to people that they're actually struggling, you know, it's, it's just like this, this is the way life is like, like, um, you know, like, like life sucks, you know.

Life's a struggle. I do, I do my, I get up in the morning, I brush my teeth, I go to work, don't particularly like it, I come home. Go through the motions, go to bed, and like, then Groundhog Day, do it all again tomorrow. Um, so yeah, I'm not sure if that helps answer the question, but I kind of feel like it's more of a, a problem of ignorance.

Like, I say that in a nice way, but like, it's a problem of ignorance, not, not so much around, like, the, the, the macho side of things. You know, I, I think that's actually highly insightful. Uh, I think our own abilities [00:30:00] to adapt is behind that idea, right? I saw a post earlier cause I deal with a lot of chronic pain, uh, due to breaking my back twice.

But I saw a post, someone posted about, it was a hematologist talking about you, people don't understand chronic pain sufferers because you can't see it from the outside. These people just learn to live with a degree of pain that might be debilitating for most people, but they've learned that that's just what life is and they've learned to carry on and move through that.

You're not going to see it externally most of the time, even though they're in a lot of pain because they've had to adapt to this is what their life looks like and you can't just stop and curl up on the floor and cry. Yeah, I think you're right. I think a lot of us have just adapted to is like, okay, well, this is life.

Yeah, I think the, the, the thing, the thing that I find, and by, and by the way, I, I've, I've also had a, a [00:31:00] serious back injury and, um, and through a result of that, I, um, I was diagnosed with a chronic pain condition as well. So I completely completely. Empathize with you. Um, the, the whole thing around like with things like chronic pain and mental health.

And they say, like, the problem is you can't see it. Right. And the, the thing that I find actually quite amusing about that is that that unless, unless you've got, say, a skin disease, or you've got a bone sticking out of your leg, that's the case with pretty much any condition that you have. If you've got a heart condition, you can't say if you've got diabetes, you can't say if you've got kidney trouble, like, I don't know where that comes from, but like with mental health, like it's a problem because you can't see it, you [00:32:00] know, well, you can't see virtually like cancer, you know, you can't see it, right, right.

And until it produce. Until it goes to such a far extent that you're having to have special treatment or unless it's gotten to that really far stages. Yeah, you're, you're absolutely right. You can't see most of it. Yeah, yeah. And, and I think, I think, I, I, I even, you know, I even hear, I get, I get a, it does make me a little bit frustrated.

I won't say angry, but frustrated when I even hear psychologists and specialists will use a phrase like, and this person had mental health, and they use that term to basically say this person had You know, we're struggling with their mental health, but it's that [00:33:00] constant narrative, mental health is only something that you have if you're struggling, but mental health is a spectrum, right?

We all have mental health and it has degrees of good or bad, right? Um, you know, 100 percent of your listeners right now has mental health. Right? Um, and that doesn't mean anything other than they are sitting somewhere on a spectrum between 1 and 10. That's all it means. I, I entirely agree. It's, it's, it's one of those things, you write, you don't think about, we, we throw away a lot of words.

We're really, really loose with language these days. And so you're right. I mean, anytime you say mental health, right? That's the negative connotations of the first thing. Your brain goes, Oh, yeah. Instead of going, okay. Right. That's, that's just [00:34:00] overall state of being is, you know, where your mental health set that day.

Are you positive? Is life feeling good to you? Are, are you a little more down? Right. That's still all in there and we throw words around a lot. Yeah, I think, I think one of the, I think one of the biggest problems kind of, you know, when I think about, you know, why is so many people struggling? Um, a big, a big part of it is that we were never educated about how our minds work, right?

Like, so, if you imagine, like, we're, we're, we're, we're at... Kindergarten or high school, you're learning about mathematics, you're learning about physics and all of these different things, um, understanding the mind and even developing, like, like a [00:35:00] mental, like a toolbox of mental skills, right? And like, What, what do, what do I mean by that?

First of all, so a mental skill to learn just one out of a thousand is how to not take offense, right? That, that, you know, so if someone says something to you would offend many people, you can learn how to not let that affect you in any way, right? That's just, that's just one skill. If we had learned all of those things.

To set us up for life, then, then that, that would be a huge step forward. But the, the other thing is that's kind of the counter to that is when it comes to kind of being with or observing someone. That has a struggle with their mental health. I think I'm unlike [00:36:00] say, I mean, diabetes or whatever other realness that the big thing that happens is that that person's persona and behavior changes to.

Like a very, you know, varying degrees and that and for the for other people in your life that that can actually be really scary. And again, they're not, they're not trained in how to deal with that. So, unfortunately, 1 of the worst things happen is that those people often say completely the wrong things, you know, like, look, just pick yourself up or whatever, um, or they withdraw.

Right. And then, and then that person feels like. You know, they're not being loved or cared for, and they're not worthy or something like that. Um, so I think they're the kinds of elements that really play out in reinforcing this, um, kind of [00:37:00] mystical area of mental health, where just people just don't understand it, and they don't, they both don't understand themselves, and they don't understand others, and that's kind of where, where the problems really kick in, I think.

Now, in our early communications, you use the word hope, and I want to dig into that just a little bit, but first we're going to go to our sponsor. So gentlemen, we've been discussing men's mental health. And one of the important takeaways I want you to hear from this part of the show is mental health.

Isn't necessarily a negative thing. Mental health is it's just your mental state throughout the day, right? You can be in a positive state. You can be in a kind of neutral state. It's not all bad. We need to get away from this negative connotation of when we're talking about mental health, we're talking about your overall emotional and mental wellbeing [00:38:00] at a holistic point.

We're not talking about you've got a problem. No, no, you, you live in a state of mental health constantly. So understand this isn't about you're broken or there's something wrong with you. This is about living your best life. So we're going to roll to our sponsor and we will be right back with more from Allen on.

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Now let's go on to the show. All right, guys, we're back and we're here with Alan Cox discussing men's mental health. And in this part of the show, we're gonna talk about tools for. Mental health and resilience. And guys, when we're talking about mental health, we're talking about overall mental health, not necessarily negative mental health.

You can go through life without anything being technically wrong with you, but you may not be in your best headspace for your best life. It's not that there's anything bad. It's just like you could feel better mentally and emotionally, and you just don't even know you're not. Uh, I, I have to liken it to my brother ended up several years ago with walking pneumonia.

And he felt bad for so long. He had no idea he was sick until it was hospitalized for weeks because he just kept adjusting to, this is the state of my life. [00:40:00] Your mental health is good days. It's bad days as average days is every day. And Alan is passionate about helping people live in a good head space because living in a good head space keeps you living your best life.

Now, I want to start with hope because it's something you mentioned in our, uh, pre conversations and our emails back and forth. Why is hope so critical to a successful conversation about, uh, optimal mental health?

Well, for me, hope was basically tied to like a sudden realization and understanding that there is actually a path forward. Right? So just, just so that you understand what I was going through at the time, um, I'd, I'd not [00:41:00] long had. Like a major mental breakdown. Um, I, I could only function or wait for about 2 hours at a time.

My speech was slurred. I, I couldn't walk for more than 20 yards. It was pretty bad. And I, I give people this analogy of. You know, where my mind was, it was like I was in this completely black tunnel with no sense that there was, you know, what way was out or even if there was a way out, you know, like, it's just like, I just don't want to be here anymore.

I don't, I don't want this. Right. And, and then. Then a program came on TV, and I actually encourage anyone to watch it regardless of what they, um, what they think of either their, their own mental well being, whatever it is, it's actually quite dated now, but it's called, it's a BBC program called The Truth About [00:42:00] Depression, and, and by the way, it's, you can watch it for free.

You know right now after this show go to YouTube it's on there for free and What that program showed me in the course of an hour was a few things one was it took my mental state if you like and It made sense of it like what I? Before watching that program. I was think what wasn't even thinking my My, um, understanding of what was going on in my head was this is just the way I am.

I'm, I'm broken. It's not very nice. And this is why I'll be forever. But what that program showed me was. Look someone [00:43:00] that's been in a reduced state of well being for a prolonged period of time Their hippocampus will be like physically Reduced in size, you know by 20 to 30 percent and and that has all of these consequences, you know Look how it responds to information and how it um, how it Kind of reflects back these, you know, chemical reactions and all these kinds of anyway, that's just one example of all these things that were going on in your mind.

And, and it showed you about, um, you know, neuroplasticity where effectively the wiring in your brain can be wired over a period of time to work in a really bad way. You know, like it. Instead of using, you know, using the analogy of like, instead of two and two making four, um, you put two and two [00:44:00] together and make five or six all the time.

Right. And, um, so what, what that program showed me was, oh, my God. There is actually a reason for the way that, um, my mind is, you know, the way is and why I'm feeling the way I am, but more importantly, what the program showed me is that all of these things can be reversed, right? It was to you to use the, say, analogy of physical fitness, right?

It was, you know, if you think of yourself as a Let's just say you're, you haven't exercised ever and you, you, you may be overweight. You, your, your, your muscles are all atrophied and all these kinds of things. That person can always get back to a state of good physical fitness and strength. And, and that's, and what [00:45:00] this program showed me is, um, you can do exactly the same thing with, with your brain.

Um, and that new understanding is, is what gave me hope. All right, now you took this and you have a background as an entrepreneur and are still in that space and you took this information and you went. You know what, we can do something with this. So you could have gone a lot of directions with it. Right.

And, but you hit this point with that background going, I'm going to do something with this and I'm gonna do something with this. I'm gonna do something more. And you created an app and you guys have seen us. If you're watching on the screen, uh, put up every yellow, a few times. And we're gonna talk more about every yellow.

Now I've been using your app for about four days now. And I intend to, well, by the time this airs, [00:46:00] I will be, have been using it a lot longer than that, but why, why create a mental wellbeing app? There, there's a bunch of apps out there. There's all kinds of options out there. What, what said I need to create something new and different?

So basically what happened is when there was, there was two, two, two, like really important things, I guess, is when I'd had that kind of realization about my, you know, giving me hope and what have you, I, I basically wanted to start learning more about this stuff. Right. And I, I turned to YouTube. I. Um, started, you know, research and things like amygdala, hippocampus, neuroplasticity, all this stuff, right?

And when, and when you're, when you're searching for this [00:47:00] stuff, you know, other things come up, right? And one of the things, one of the things that came up is, is that there's people on there that do these kind of, kind of, um, compilation videos. Where there's all these people speaking like Wayne Dyer, Anthony Robbins, all these different people, and they put it to this emotive music and sound.

And nice videos and stuff and, and something in these videos resonated with me and I, I made my own playlists and when my wife went off to work in the mornings and I basically had to then go back to bed, I would put on this playlist and basically go off to sleep, right? And after a few weeks, I just noticed like a shift in myself, like, like a little flame has come on and [00:48:00] to cut a long story short, where, where the, where my care workers have basically said that I could expect it to be a good year.

Uh, because people that have mental breakdowns, there's kind of different degrees and I had quite a severe one. They basically had said to me, it's going to be about a year before you can even think about going back to work part time. I actually got myself back to work full time within three months and they thought I was kind of joking.

And, but I, I didn't know what had worked, but I knew that there was something in what. That messaging or whatever it done to my brain, so for a good 5 or 6 years, I had this thought, I wonder if there was something in that, right? And then, and then, then I came across some research about. All [00:49:00] of these other apps that are out there and, you know, you can go and Google it.

Um, there's multiple research studies that basically have looked up all of these top apps and they couldn't find any evidence that of any efficacy in any meaningful way. And that was really shocking to me, you know, thinking, you know, there's, there's all these apps earning hundreds of millions of dollars off people, but people aren't actually being helped.

So. So I then started looking into well, what is it about these apps that don't work? Because I'm sure they wasn't designed with ill intention. I think, you know, I'm sure there was, you know, good intention there. Um, and what I, what I started to learn was things like people just find, you know, these, a lot of these apps [00:50:00] to be quite.

Intimidating dull. Um, you know, even even the most popular category of well being apps, which is, um, uh, meditation apps over 70 percent of people will not even. Entertain doing meditation for a variety of reasons. They they either don't have the space to do it. They don't. They might think it's a little bit woo or religious or old school, whatever the reason is, right?

Um, so I became more aware of, you know, why these apps weren't working for people and then I basically formed this hypothesis of I wonder if there's something in this app that I was Sorry, in my recovery, what about if we, what about if we created an app that had a solid? Kind of scientific basis to it.

You know, it played content that was [00:51:00] personalized to you. Um, and the, because it was a nice experience, you're actually going to spend time with the app and you're not going to give up on it. It's a, it's a joy to use that. That's the main thing, right? Who, who's going to spend time with an app that they don't enjoy using?

Like, you just don't do it, right? Um, so I basically. Took this idea for this app to is actually a world leading, uh, psychologist who actually heads up a department at the World Health Organization. And I was very fortunate to have a friend had that relationship to connect me to this person and. I basically said, look, this is my experience.

Now that I've understood the science, I, I think what was happening to, to, I think what was happening to me was I was getting an education, [00:52:00] there was repetition theory going on. I was like hearing the same kind of messages, but within different messages all the time. I was, um, it was personalized to me because I kind of curated it and all these kinds of things.

You know, what, what about if we created an app where we took people through like a questionnaire experience so that we get to understand them like intimately and then we. Give them this similar kind of experience, but it's highly personalized to them, right? And I, I'll be honest with you. I was, I was completely expecting to be shot down and say, No, you're, you're completely off the mark.

Um, but to my surprise, she said, um, yep, that that is what happened to you. That is how that experience made you into what you are today. Um, [00:53:00] I love the idea, um, uh, this person that, um, you know, these kind of people, they have like a research focus and her research focus on all of her papers that she'd done over time, over a period of time was around the personalization of mental health interventions.

So she said, Look, this, this is just so good. I want to actually help you as well. So that's kind of the, the, the, you know, like, um, I, I would say to most people, yeah, you'd be mad to create another mental wellbeing app, you know, cause there's already tons out there, but we, we wanted to create one that really worked for people and, and we seem to have done that.

How do you know it actually works? So it took us about, um, two years to develop the app. And, you know, I have to, I have to first say that the app didn't work and this was [00:54:00] basically, A money making exercise. I, I just wouldn't be interested. I'd, I'd walk away. Right. Um, but around early last year, uh, the app was quietly released into the app store just so that it was kind of available.

But for a whole year, we went through rounds of. Testing on the, there's a, there's a research platform called prolific and we basically, you know, through a series of studies, we, um, recruited people that basically, um, I were like, a certain level with their mental well being or already, um. They was motivated to improve their mental well being and they wasn't doing any other mental health intervention or using any other mental well being apps.

That was basically the criteria [00:55:00] and, and we then got them to use the app for a month and we checked in with them over like every week. And. We did this a number of times during the year and like the initial results, they were actually way better than we expected, but we got some learnings about how it could be better.

And we just kept carried on improving things throughout throughout last year. And we've, we've, we got to a point. Last year, where, um, 78 percent like we had we in the in the research we have, we have nine individual measures of of well being. Um, you know, like, you feel like your relationships are improving.

You feel like you've got more motivation, more energy, sleep quality, all these kinds of things. We got to a point late last year where, um, 78 [00:56:00] percent of people reported. At least a noticeable improvement within the first week and then it just went up and up over the course of the month But what was actually, while that kind of 78 percent figure is like, incredible, what, what I was really most, um, don't say surprised, but pleased about, I guess, was in some of the individual measures, especially things like self worth, something like 42 percent of people had a significant outcome.

Increase in like a key pillar like that, and to me that that was that was actually more exciting than saying 78 percent of people get at least a small increase over all areas. So, yeah, we've, we've, we've, we've done, we've, we've done, you know, multiple [00:57:00] rounds of testing. Absolutely confident that it works.

Hey guys, you know, I'm really picky about sharing things with people. Without me first going through it or knowing, uh, what I'm sharing with you guys, I don't generally share apps. In fact, historically, this makes the second app I've ever shared ever in the history of this show. Um, I'm extraordinarily picky about what we share with our listeners here, but I understand the science behind.

What Alan was doing with this app. I was really excited when we connected to look at the app and to actually have this conversation because I was getting all the information about it and connecting with him about it. It's like, man, this makes so much sense right now. I don't understand all the sciencey stuff.

I'll be the first one to tell you that, but I understand enough of it to go. I can see how this will actually impact. [00:58:00] Now guys, I am using this app. Like I said. Uh, this is not something I would share without doing that myself. It is incredibly user friendly. I love the fact that you can basically set it and forget it.

Like I can do other things while I'm using this. If you know me, I'm, I'm huge about my time, my time commitments. I'm, my schedule is so packed with so many things that. It's like, am I going to sit down for 30 minutes a day and do this and stop what I'm doing? The answer is no, this is not going to take away from the rest of your time.

This is not something where you're going to have to set aside an hour in your day and do nothing else and get nothing else done. Alan, I'm so excited at the way you plan this and the way you design for that. Just that fact alone makes us incredibly valuable as a very busy individual. Now, [00:59:00] I'm sure you can get more science, but you know, in, in the fact that we talked about mental health is not necessarily a negative connotation.

I want you to hear what he said earlier. You're not broken. This isn't an app for broken people. And can we, can we dig in a little more how this isn't necessarily. Cause I think you can explain that a whole lot better than I just did. So, so the way, the way the app, so I'll answer the question kind of a bit in reverse, that the way, the way the app works is through a process called mental conditioning.

And we, we get mentally conditioned all the time. You know, just, just like the adverts on TV are conditioning you to want to buy a McDonald's or whatever. Right. And the. The, the trouble, the, the unfortunate thing is that the way, the way our [01:00:00] brains are basically set up, you know, we've, we've got a very primitive part of our brain that is kind of always looking out for like danger and things like that and what, when, when we go through life from an early child to where we are today, when we have happy experiences and things that bring us joy.

Our brain does not have circuitry that says, Oh, this is, this is good, you know, blah, blah, blah. But what it does do is when, when there's anything that it senses as kind of harmful, it will basically put that information away. So we basically build up this kind of wiring that makes us kind of very wary of the world and respond to the world in, in a way that's not really very helpful.

And we're basically kind of, if you like. [01:01:00] Using the positive aspects of mental conditioning to kind of help us break down that mental kind of, you know, poor programming and put in a, like a better, like a better operating system inside your brain. So, to get back to the question, so what, what do we mean by, like, you know, who it's for, um, what you need to, what I certainly didn't understand until, like, the last 5, 10 years or so is, is our wellbeing.

Is not only far from binary in terms of where we're at on a spectrum. It's actually far from binary in terms of um What constitutes our well being right? So if you Let's for a moment, just imagine like an oak tree or whatever, whatever thing you can think of, but let's just say an oak tree and all of this, all of the stuff [01:02:00] that you can see above the top is, is your well being and underneath the root system that imagine there's these like major, um, roots that basically are what Govern the strength of that tree like how to what extent is flourishing?

Well that that is basically the case for our mental well being like one one of the root systems is Um, you know to what extent do you experience positive relationships? Another one is Um, growth and achievement. Another one is, um, being able to be present without worrying about the future or ruminating on the past.

And I won't go through all of the pillars. Like we have nine of these pillars, um, based on psychology. And what I'm trying to, what I, what I'm trying to convey here is that if you, if you, um, if you can think like, um, help me out here, um, [01:03:00] there's, um, Don't like in in audio like you you there's like a spectrum thing of like what what the various parts of the music Do you know what I mean?

Frequencies. Yeah. So, um, do you know, like, where you, you set all different parts of the, you know, like, the lower frequencies you want up at this point and, you know, imagine that shape, right? Everyone has a very different shape, right? And the, the trick, the trick is, is to understand what your shape is and then work on the areas where you are lowest, right?

Um, because that's where the biggest impact will be gained. So let's just, for example, say Say, say that, um, you, uh, you're very low on. So, you know, this is, this is probably, this is probably a very common one [01:04:00] for men, right? Um, it, let's just say that you are very low on positive relationships, right? I, this is one of my low areas, right?

Um, I, I have a, I'm very, very lucky that I have a positive relationship with my wife, right? But especially that I moved halfway around the world to New Zealand, right? I don't really have any really good mates, you know, I don't, I don't really have anyone that is always looking out for me. And, you know, and, and that will be having an impact, right?

And just knowing that I can then say, what am I going to do about that? Right. What, you know, can I, so like, um, can I join a, like, I'm into photography. Can I join a photography club? Um, I used to play squash. Maybe I can rejoin a squash club and, you know, it's, [01:05:00] it's all of, it's, it's really all of these things.

Like, like another way to kind of have the analogy is, is like, imagine like the, the columns on like a, you know, like a, Like an ancient temple kind of thing. Imagine you've got this plinth and that plinth is your, uh, is your overall mental well being and each of the nine columns is, is, is these facets of your well being.

If you're, if any of those are Crumbling or low, it's going to, it's going to, it's going to weaken that part of the thing and your overall well being will come down. Um, so, yeah, hopefully that's answer the question in a way that it makes you realize that it's not just, it's not just where you are.

Everyone is unique in terms of. You know, um, what, you know, if you take two people that are say five out of 10, [01:06:00] one of them might be say incredibly low on self worth. But they may, they may never spend time, um, say, worrying about the future or ruminating on the past, right? You've got the other person who's a 5, and they're the exact opposite of that, right?

And, and just by, just by kind of taking stock of where you are, and then... Educating yourself and, um, helping to bring yourself up in that area. You, you, you can make pretty big gains fairly quickly. Guys, it's simple. It's user friendly and it's about the quality of your life. You want all those nine pillars to be high.

And the more [01:07:00] you can level them out, higher quality of life you have, right? It's overall mental wellbeing. It's not deficiencies. It's not problems. It's about a quality of life. The way you see the world, the way you see your life, the way you see your world is all reflected in these nine pillars. And Alan has come up with something to help us that is simple and user friendly and fits in your day.

That's really important for a lot of us. Alan, what is the next thing for you and for EverYellow? Are we continuing development even more? Are you adding new features to it? Yep. So, so we've, um, we're, we're always creating more content. So, um, there's. There's within each of those pillars, there's many, many topics that we can we can cover and we, um.

We always want to [01:08:00] cut cover more and more more topics. So we're, um, within the next, probably within the next 4 to 6 weeks, there's going to be a big content update where we'll pretty much double the amount of content in there. Um, and yes, there's, um, there's some pretty exciting, uh, new new features coming out as well.

All right, where is the best place for people to connect and find out more about this? um if they if they would like to basically find out more about the App itself then go to the website. Um, uh every yellow. com Um, I I would also just say look, um, the app is free. It's not one of these Bs like we cut you off after seven days like where where where what's known as a an impact organization?

So Our mission is to help as many millions of people as we can it's not it's not [01:09:00] about maximizing profits Part of that mission is that we want to make sure that money is not a barrier to well being um, so You know, if you're tight with money, there's no reason not to just go and download the app I I would just say to anyone I would challenge you to just give it a go and if if I may I'll just Tell you this little story about one of my kind of um Business colleagues that helped out financially with, with the product.

He he's not quite a hairy biker, but he's, he's like a biker dude, you know, and, um, He, he said to me at the beginning, Hey, like Alan, I'm, I really love what you're doing, but like, I, I wouldn't use it. Um, and, and then when the app came out, um, and, and by the way, this guy is one of those people that he. I don't mean this a bad way.

He never contacts me unless there's a reason. Right. [01:10:00] Um, and anyway, after the app went out about a week later, I got this text message or WhatsApp message come through, Alan, I want to speak to you about Eviello. And my first thought was, Oh, my God, is he, was he, you know, found, you know, and, um, I called him and I said, what's up?

He said. He said, Alan, I, I basically had a go of using every other and he said, I was actually really surprised. It wasn't, it wasn't what I thought it was going to be. He said, I actually started using it. I didn't think I would, but I've actually started using it and I've. And I've been using it for a week now.

And, and, oh, by the way, this, this guy is not, not an extreme athlete, but he's, he's, he's one of these people that goes for a run. And every, [01:11:00] every time he goes for a run, he times himself on Strava. Right. And, um, he said, um, I'm definitely, this is after we, he said, I'm definitely feeling better. He said, but I'm also But I've also just run my best time ever.

Right. And, um, and, and that's, you know, that was great. So I guess my message there is that, um, even if you don't think you're into kind of like hippie apps and what have you, this isn't like that, you know, you just, just give it a go. Even if you don't like the messaging, you can turn the messaging down. So it kind of gets through, you know, Subliminally, um, and and how it will actually impact you.

It can impact you in in many different ways. You know, everything from more energy, motivation, better relationships, whatever. [01:12:00] You know, it's as I said before, everyone is different and the impact will be different for everybody. Alan, thank you for taking the time to be on the show today and hanging out with us.

Thank you for your work with every yellow. Uh, I, I think you guys are onto something very powerful there. I think it's going to change a lot of people's lives. I think it's going to help a lot. Okay. Yeah. Yes. Yep. Certainly. Certainly. I hope so. Guys, if you want the answer or actually still care, the U S record for fastest surface wind, I think let's see, is New Hampshire in 1934 at 231 miles per hour.

Which is just insane. That's like hurricane force winds or higher, uh, New Hampshire, who would have thought, but that's probably the most unimportant thing we talked about this entire episode. Guys take care of your mental wellbeing. Okay. It is so much [01:13:00] more than one little thing. It is quality of life. And as you raise that up, everything gets better.

Take care of yourself during the silly season. We love you guys be better tomorrow because of what you do today. And we'll see you on the next one. This has been the fellow man podcast, your home for everything, man, husband, and father, be sure to subscribe. So you don't miss a show head over to www.

thefallibleman. com for more content and get your own fallible man here. I ain't waitin and wishin

S04E91 Final Cut

[00:00:00] Let's for a moment, just imagine, like, an oak tree or whatever, whatever thing you can think of. But let's just say an oak tree and all of this, all of the stuff that you can see above the top is, is your well being and underneath the. The root system that imagine there's these, like, major, um, roots that basically are what govern the strength of that tree.

Like, how to what extent is flourishing. Well, that that is basically the case for our mental well being. Like, 1 of the root systems is. Um, you know, to what extent do you experience positive relationships? Another one is, um, growth and achievement. Another one is, um, being able to be present without worrying about the future or ruminating on the past.

And I won't go through all of the pillars. Like, we have nine of these pillars, um, based on psychology. And what I'm trying to, what I, what I'm trying to convey here [00:01:00] is that if you, if you, um, If you can think like, um, help me out here. Um, there's, um, don't like in, in audio, like you, you, there's like a spectrum thing of like, what, what the various parts of the music, do you know what I mean?

Frequencies. Yeah. So, um, do you know, like where you. You set all different parts of the, you know, like the lower frequencies you want up at this point and, you know, imagine that shape, right? Everyone has a very different shape, right? And the, the trick, the trick is, is to understand what your shape is and then work on the areas where you are lowest.

Here's the million dollar question. [00:02:00] How do men like us reach our full potential? Growing to the men we dream of being while taking care of our responsibilities, working, being good husbands, fathers, and still take care of ourselves? Well, that's the big question. In this podcast, we'll help you answer those questions and more.

My name is Brent and welcome to the Fallible Man Podcast.

Welcome to the fallible man podcast. You're home for all things, man, husband and father, big shout out to fallible nation. You guys keep us doing shows like this and we love you and are so grateful for you and a warm welcome to our first time listeners. Thanks for giving us a chance. I hope you enjoy the show.

My name is Brent. Today. My special guest is entrepreneur, innovator and mental health change maker Alan Cox. Alan, welcome to the fallible man podcast. Hey, um, thanks very much for having me on. It's gonna. It's going to be a good conversation. I'm sure. I'm, I'm very excited about today's conversation. Now we like things, [00:03:00] take things, you know, ease into it a little bit.

So we have the pointless trivia show question of the show, and it's just a random query question and you'll take your best shot at it and we'll figure it out at the end. How's that? Oh, I'm a bit nervous now. So the question, random trivia question for the show is what state of the U. S. has the record for the fastest surface wind?

Is it a Illinois B, New Hampshire, C Montana, Rd, Alaska, Montana. All right, guys, you know, the rules. Nobody cheats. Don't look it up, make your guests, write it down. If you're in the car, please don't write it down while you're driving. Just make a mental note and we'll get back to that. Now, Alan, I don't do big introductions cause no one actually cares about accolades these days and it doesn't really tell the audience who you are.

So in your own words today, this day. Who is Alan? Um, [00:04:00] so I'm a very happily married man after 30 odd years of marriage, uh, still with, uh, still with my first and ever, um, love. Um, I've, I'm someone that's in a very happy place. Uh, you know, strong mental well being. Um, I'm the owner of a Uh, a mental health, uh, app startup.

Um, and yeah, I'm, I'm enjoying life right now. All right. And congratulations on 30 years. That is an awesome, awesome feat, especially in this modern era where you don't see that very often. Uh, that's, that's quite a thing. That's awesome. Uh, I've, I'm always, I'm always excited to see what couples. Make it and, uh, you just don't see that all the time anymore.

Yeah. Yeah, it's, um, it's, it's just, it just feels, yeah, we, I mean, we've been through some, you know, [00:05:00] obviously some really tough times and, uh, times where that, that kind of connection gets really stretched. But, um, when our apart, pot pot pot. Point in time where we've, you know, the clouds have gone away and, um, the kids have moved away and went out onto, uh, on a new, onto a new chapter and it's, it's, it's, it's currently, it's, uh, it's reading the chapters, reading out quite well.

Excellent. Excellent. That, that is a hard transition for a lot of people is when the kids finally move out and. Or off in their own. Uh, that's actually a big struggle time for a lot of couples. So, you know, you guys are off to a good start and that's very, very excellent. Yeah. My wife and I are 22 years on at this point, and, uh, are excited for the next 22 years.

Well, yeah. Gone. Congratulations. That's still very good. I, I'm actually really surprised these days how often I run into people and it's like, we're the old married couple at 22 years. I'm like. [00:06:00] I, I grew up with people who were married for like 40, 50, 60 years, man. I, it just blows my mind how life has changed.

Now, Alan, if you could have a conversation with anyone in history, who would it be and why? Oh, do you know what? I've been, I've been asked this question. At least three or four times and I always find it difficult to answer because there's just there's just so many there's just so many people, you know, um, you know, I think of people like, you know, Gandhi when he was going through all of the struggles and I'd love to, you know, see how we managed to keep internal peace with so much like tragedy going on around him.

Nelson Mandela, like, um, Muhammad Ali. There's just so many people. I I'm, I'm sorry. I can't give one person. I was going to say, you know, if you've been asked this several times, you should know this one [00:07:00] by now. Now that that's fine. That's I like to ask that question, but it's for this reason alone, people are so complicated and there's so much depth to human being that it kind of lets you see bigger visions of who they want to be when you ask those questions.

But yeah, no, I, I've been on the other end of the mic too, and it is a different, difficult question. Yeah, it's, it's kind of like, um, going to like a, like a pastry stand, right? And you, you, you, you, you want, you want, you want to buy something sweet to eat and there's all the, you know, every one of them looks gorgeous, right?

Like, how do you pick, right? So, oh, yeah, no, I, uh, that entirely people were, people were funny. I actually had to stop asking, I had to start asking people not to answer Jesus because. Uh, there, there's in a lot of cultures, right? Christianity is prevalent [00:08:00] and everybody feels like that's the default answer.

They have to answer. It's like, no, no, no. It's okay. Yeah, I understand. That's, that's the, that's the proper Jesus button. Okay. Yeah. You said it now. Who else? You don't have to answer that. It just becomes funny after a while. After you ask enough people. What is your go to comfort food or guilty pleasure snack?

Um, yeah, probably hazelnut chocolate probably. Okay. Hazelnut chocolate. We have, um, so growing up in the UK, um, Cadbury's chocolate was the go to chocolate. And in New Zealand, um, there's a brand called, uh, Whittaker's. And. The chocolate here was quite hard to adjust to and initially because they put a lot less sugar in it.

Okay, um, and [00:09:00] the, the Whitaker's chocolate, um, in the last 5 years or so as they basically have got this new, um, process of refining the cocoa. Like, it's like 5 times ground or rolled or whatever they call it. And it's just so incredibly smooth. It's like, like, It's it's very it's very I don't know if you've had belgian chocolate before but you know, it's it's very close And you know, so you've got something that's a similar price to say cadbury's, you know, very affordable Um, and it's delicious and and that's not such a good thing actually

I understand I I i'm an ice cream like that's my go to come and Okay, what what flavor? Oh, i'm i like a lot of them if i'm buying it commercially I like ben and jerry's chunky monkey, right? [00:10:00] Uh, I grew up my mom I grew up with my mom doing a lot of church potlucks And ice cream socials and she would always make banana ice cream, right?

And so that that ben and jerry's chunky monkey with the banana ice cream just hits that deep seated emotional memory Yeah, yeah of growing up with the banana ice cream. So yeah, I don't know why but i've I've, I've, I've kind of developed this, um, I don't know, kind of a taste for things that are fairly neutral, you know, like I've, I've never, I've never, I've never been into drinking, um, say cans of soda or anything like that.

Um, I mean, I, I've still got all my teeth without out any fillings at the, at the age of 56. So it shows I, I wasn't really into sweets and things. Um, but you know, um. I like things kind of in a fairly pure form, I suppose, you know, like I really like [00:11:00] so instead of like a really fancy pizza, I really appreciate just a classic Marguerite or whatever they're called Neapolitan or whatever.

Um, and with ice cream, I'm the same. I love, love, love ice cream. Um, but my go to would be just a really good vanilla, you know, it's, um, yeah, and, um. Just, just the way, just, just the way I'm wired. I like, I like vanilla bean. Yeah. Pure, high quality vanilla bean. It's just so good. Yeah. It was so good. Yeah, exactly right.

Alan, what purchase of a hundred dollars or less have you made in the last year that's had the biggest impact on your life? Hundred dollars or less in the last year. Um,

I, do you know what? I don't actually buy much nowadays. Like when, when you, when you get to my age. Like I know whenever it comes around to birthdays and things like it's a it's a nightmare for my wife, [00:12:00] you know, because Yeah, actually I can tell you right I can tell you i've got it. So right now, um it's It gets pretty cold here in new zealand this time of year and When we go to bed the the the the bit that keeps you awake is is your feet being cold, right?

So about a month ago I spent about, I think, I think it was quite, quite, quite a lot of money per pair of socks, right? It was, uh, about 45 for, um, a pair of POS, a mix of POSM and Merino socks. Right. And they are super thick. Super warm and, and they're also kind of, do you know how like socks, like when you have them in bed, they can kind of be grippy, um, they, these socks just slide over the, you know, so you feel, still feel really free [00:13:00] and yeah, they've, they've made a big difference.

They, they help me get off to sleep pretty quickly. Hey, sleep is important. I never underestimate anything that helps you get a better night's sleep is, is high on my list of good investments. Exactly. And it doesn't, doesn't, doesn't have to take a lot of money, uh, to get a good night's sleep. No, no, you, you find the right combination.

Just better habits, you know, make your environment good. Alan, what are you most proud of?

Um, I think I'm most proud of, I'm most proud of my wife for sticking with me. Um, through... Everything that I put her through like, I mean, don't get me wrong. Um, there's never been any kind of kind of harm or abuse or anything like that, but like through when you're when you're going through the kind of debts that [00:14:00] I went through, um, you can, you can say some pretty nasty things, right?

Um, that's, you know, you're just lashing out at everyone. And, um, and yeah, having, um, Stuck with me through years of that, when, you know, I think many people could have easily walked away. Yeah, I think that's what I'm most proud of. What's one random fact people don't know about you? Um, so, in New Zealand, um, one of the craziest things to do is to, um, bungee jump, right?

Um, and, and the home of bungee jumping in New Zealand, um, is this place called Skippers Canyon. And, um, And I, I went, I went first and my wife, um, came, went after me and as they collect you in a boat, [00:15:00] right? And I, I basically, I basically, when you're, when you're in the boat, they basically say, Oh, would you like to go again?

And it's only like another 50 bucks or whatever, right? And I bet they must get a high hit rate because your adrenaline is, you know, going through the roof. And I said, Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'll do it. And my wife got into the boat and she said, I will never ever do that again. That was terrible. And I said, Oh, well, I'm going to do it again.

And, and so she had to do it again. But when I did it, I thought, right, I'm going to, I'm going to one up her this time. And so I'm, I'm one of the few people that have, um, bungee jumped backwards. So I, um, it's hard, it's hard enough when you're looking down and there's... Just nothing below you. It's hard enough jumping off, but, um, I basically did like, um, I don't know, a Superman pose kind of thing.

And just threw myself backwards and, [00:16:00] um, pretty crazy thing to do. So that's not, not a lot of people know that. All right. I gotta admit, I would be, uh, I I've damaged my back enough. I'd be terrified to go bungee jumping. Oh, it probably pull it into shape. I know I've broken it twice. I just, I games at this point.

Yeah, when you want to do that, I've seen videos of my friends getting whipped around like a ragdoll. I'm like, yeah, that just starts hurting sympathetically. Yeah. It's, it's actually, it's actually a lot, it's actually a lot smoother than what it looks, you know? I mean, the, the, the big thing that they tell you is to actually kind of properly dive off so that your legs, you're like, your feet are up when the tension goes.

What a lot of people do that are kind of more nervous. They just jump out with their feet going down and that's when they get whipped around, you know, and, but it's there, but it's their fault. Cause I didn't follow [00:17:00] instructions. You see, Alan, before we get into. The subject of today's show. What's something everyone should know about you as we're digging in?

Um, well, something everyone's, I think, I think that just really around my, I'd like people just to know about my mission. Um, so, um, I basically not only got myself back to a good mental wellbeing, but I actually kind of. Went on to a place that has opened up so many new opportunities for me and and, um, you know, I kind of, you know, you kind of feel like you've got this superpower really.

And, um, and I, I just want to like, you know, I've lost a friend to suicide and things like that. And I just want to give this gift to as many people as I can. So, um, you [00:18:00] know, the yeah. The company that I've, uh, that I'm, you know, running now, you know, we've, we're, we're already achieving that for thousands of people around the world.

You know, like someone said to me, like what on, on another podcast the other day, they said like, what, you know, what, what will success look like for you, you know? And, um, and I said, look, even if I. Sorry if I'm ranting on a bit here, but I told this, I told this story how, um, my mom basically got terminal cancer a few years ago.

And I asked her in the hospice, like, what are you most proud of? And she, she really couldn't answer. Like she, she's one of these people that was a people pleaser and, um, didn't really do much, you know? Um, and I just, I wouldn't wish that on anybody. Um, and. Anyway, so I think if I was in a similar situation now, I think I'd be very [00:19:00] like proud of what I've already achieved, you know, and, um, you know, I, although, although the app isn't really for people that are kind of, it wasn't necessarily designed for people with Like severe mental health problems, but I have I have been had, um, letters written to me saying, Hey, look, you know, this is this is what I was going through and and after a month or two of using your app, I'm now doing this and, um, and and some of those things, some of those letters, they don't.

Actually say that, like, say I was suicidal or whatever, but you get a sense that there was, you know, a self harm ideation going on. And so, yeah, I think, I think I just liked people to know that I'm, I'm already content with what I've achieved. I just, um, and I just want to do this for as many people as I can.

Fair enough, guys. We've been getting to know [00:20:00] Alan a little bit and just who he is and what he's really about and the next part of the show, we're going to dive into. Men's mental health and just guys, you know, this subject is near and dear to my heart. And so I'm really excited for this conversation. I think Alan has a lot to contribute to this space.

We're gonna roll out our sponsor and we will be right back with more from Alan Cox. Now, before we go any further, I wanted to share with you guys, I don't always tell you how much I love doing my podcast. Like I passionately love what I'm doing. And one of the things that makes my life better as a podcaster is to work with a company like Grow Your Show.

Grow your show is a one stop podcast. Do it all. Now I use grow your show for my marketing, but grow your shows literally a one stop shop. You can record your episode and just drop it off with them. And they take it from there. It's amazing. If you are interested in picking up podcasting as a hobby, or maybe you're looking to expand your business and use podcasting, that aspect talk to my friends over grow your show, Adam will take care of you.

I guarantee it. I trust him. He's [00:21:00] my friend. He's my business. And I wouldn't trust anybody else with my show guys. Welcome back. And the first part of the show, we spent some time just getting to know Alan a little bit and what he's about. And this part of the show, we're going to dive into men's mental health.

Now, Alan, to really kind of set the stage and where we're going with all this. Can you tell us a little bit about you and how you ended up focused on helping other people build better mental health? Um, well, I guess I had up until the age of about 40, I'd had. long kind of struggles with mental health.

And so, um, I already knew how much kind of that impacts your life kind of thing. Um, And there was an event, you know, I, I, I, I basically nearly got killed in the Canterbury Earthquakes and that led to me losing my [00:22:00] business and, um, uh, then having quite a severe mental breakdown. And the prognosis at the time was, was actually, uh, really quite bad for me.

And I, I was kind of in a hopeless situation. And, um, but just through. Like a series of events, I guess the, um, one in particular that I basically went on a journey of kind of learning about how my mind works and and and how how I can fix it and and that that not only took me back to a place of, um, you know, good mental health, but it actually produce kind of so many different, um, unexpected other outcomes that were really [00:23:00] beneficial to like living a more conducive and fulfilling life.

Right. And, um, and then, so I had already been through this massive transformation myself. And, um, and I remember at the time I was Doing some consulting work with, like, one of the local councils here and man, like, you know, with all the red tape and bureaucracy and, like, narrow thinking, all this kind of stuff, it was actually starting to make me feel like worse again.

And I, and I, I basically, uh, thought, no, I'm not going to, I'm not going to continue down this path. I'm going to. You know, um, snippet in the bud kind of thing. Um, and at, at that, at around that same time, um, there was a lot in the media about, you know, um, mental health. There was people like [00:24:00] Anthony. I used to, you know, watch Antoni Bourdain and, um, and, you know, he took his life.

And then there, you know, I used to, you know, uh, quite, you know, listening to people like aci, he took his life. Then a close friend of mine took his life, and I, I thought, look. I, I know that, I know that what I know now can be used by so many people to kind of. Escape this kind of treadmill of misery, if you like.

And, um, and that's when I decided to do something. Everybody has a starting point. You almost died in an earthquake. That sounds really bad. Yeah, it wasn't nice. Yeah, it wasn't nice. But, hey, right? It was kind of a catalyst moment for you to go, hmm. Let's look at life a little differently. So, you know, right.

Sunny side up, you know, if you can take the upside of [00:25:00] something, uh, absolutely. That's a big jump. Of course, that the mental health is something that we don't talk about as men. Very often. It's not a very comfortable subject for a lot of men. And I think it's very

detrimental that we don't have more conversations about mental health. So it's incredible that you have gone on. I'm going to do something about this. I love that you did that. So what do you think is so scary about the topic of mental health for men? Is it just the way we normally tell people to deal with it?

Or what do you think? I think, I think there's so, I think there's a lot of different kind of forces, if you like, that kind of, uh, pull together. And, um, one of them is kind of like this macho thing. Like I, I, I need [00:26:00] to just struggle through whatever, you know, um, you know, men aren't, men aren't good at kind of, Being vulnerable or whatever like that, right?

So you got that, you got that thing, but I think, I think one of the, one of the biggest things for me is that the very term mental health for most people means poor mental health, like when it, you know, whenever you're hearing any discussions in the media or whatever, and you hear the phrase mental health, it basically has kind of a negative connotation to it, right?

And when, what, what I kind of discovered that might help to kind of, I guess, position that is, is that if you, if you think of. If you think of mental health as being like a scale of 1 to 10, where [00:27:00] 1 is you're potentially, you know, as bad as it can be, and 10, you're kind of more enlightened than the Dalai Lama, right?

Um, around the 3 mark is where if you was to say, go to a doctor and say, look, I think I'm... Depressed or something, they would do an analysis, you know, it's like a world standard set of questions I'd ask you and around the three markers where you transition from being mentally well to mentally unwell. The vast majority of society is probably somewhere between like four and six.

In fact, if you think of a bell curve, right? Um, most, most of us are around five, five and a half, something like that. So I think for, for many people, Um, they are [00:28:00] technically mentally health, right? Or mentally well in the sense, in the sense that they, they, um, they're not unwell and they don't, they maybe don't need to talk to a psychologist or whatever.

But they're, they're far from thriving, right? That, you know, um, so I, I, I kind of feel like for many blokes in particular, and I was 1 of these people, um, you, you are just going, you're just going through each day, almost not even thinking about it. You're not. Like, I, I do wonder whether, you know, the, the kind of, um, statement that men don't like talking about their mental health and what have you, I, I think it's maybe overplayed in the sense that I think the bigger [00:29:00] problem is that it doesn't even occur to people that they're actually struggling, you know, it's, it's just like this, this is the way life is like, like, um, you know, like, like life sucks, you know.

Life's a struggle. I do, I do my, I get up in the morning, I brush my teeth, I go to work, don't particularly like it, I come home. Go through the motions, go to bed, and like, then Groundhog Day, do it all again tomorrow. Um, so yeah, I'm not sure if that helps answer the question, but I kind of feel like it's more of a, a problem of ignorance.

Like, I say that in a nice way, but like, it's a problem of ignorance, not, not so much around, like, the, the, the macho side of things. You know, I, I think that's actually highly insightful. Uh, I think our own abilities [00:30:00] to adapt is behind that idea, right? I saw a post earlier cause I deal with a lot of chronic pain, uh, due to breaking my back twice.

But I saw a post, someone posted about, it was a hematologist talking about you, people don't understand chronic pain sufferers because you can't see it from the outside. These people just learn to live with a degree of pain that might be debilitating for most people, but they've learned that that's just what life is and they've learned to carry on and move through that.

You're not going to see it externally most of the time, even though they're in a lot of pain because they've had to adapt to this is what their life looks like and you can't just stop and curl up on the floor and cry. Yeah, I think you're right. I think a lot of us have just adapted to is like, okay, well, this is life.

Yeah, I think the, the, the thing, the thing that I find, and by, and by the way, I, I've, I've also had a, a [00:31:00] serious back injury and, um, and through a result of that, I, um, I was diagnosed with a chronic pain condition as well. So I completely completely. Empathize with you. Um, the, the whole thing around like with things like chronic pain and mental health.

And they say, like, the problem is you can't see it. Right. And the, the thing that I find actually quite amusing about that is that that unless, unless you've got, say, a skin disease, or you've got a bone sticking out of your leg, that's the case with pretty much any condition that you have. If you've got a heart condition, you can't say if you've got diabetes, you can't say if you've got kidney trouble, like, I don't know where that comes from, but like with mental health, like it's a problem because you can't see it, you [00:32:00] know, well, you can't see virtually like cancer, you know, you can't see it, right, right.

And until it produce. Until it goes to such a far extent that you're having to have special treatment or unless it's gotten to that really far stages. Yeah, you're, you're absolutely right. You can't see most of it. Yeah, yeah. And, and I think, I think, I, I, I even, you know, I even hear, I get, I get a, it does make me a little bit frustrated.

I won't say angry, but frustrated when I even hear psychologists and specialists will use a phrase like, and this person had mental health, and they use that term to basically say this person had You know, we're struggling with their mental health, but it's that [00:33:00] constant narrative, mental health is only something that you have if you're struggling, but mental health is a spectrum, right?

We all have mental health and it has degrees of good or bad, right? Um, you know, 100 percent of your listeners right now has mental health. Right? Um, and that doesn't mean anything other than they are sitting somewhere on a spectrum between 1 and 10. That's all it means. I, I entirely agree. It's, it's, it's one of those things, you write, you don't think about, we, we throw away a lot of words.

We're really, really loose with language these days. And so you're right. I mean, anytime you say mental health, right? That's the negative connotations of the first thing. Your brain goes, Oh, yeah. Instead of going, okay. Right. That's, that's just [00:34:00] overall state of being is, you know, where your mental health set that day.

Are you positive? Is life feeling good to you? Are, are you a little more down? Right. That's still all in there and we throw words around a lot. Yeah, I think, I think one of the, I think one of the biggest problems kind of, you know, when I think about, you know, why is so many people struggling? Um, a big, a big part of it is that we were never educated about how our minds work, right?

Like, so, if you imagine, like, we're, we're, we're, we're at... Kindergarten or high school, you're learning about mathematics, you're learning about physics and all of these different things, um, understanding the mind and even developing, like, like a [00:35:00] mental, like a toolbox of mental skills, right? And like, What, what do, what do I mean by that?

First of all, so a mental skill to learn just one out of a thousand is how to not take offense, right? That, that, you know, so if someone says something to you would offend many people, you can learn how to not let that affect you in any way, right? That's just, that's just one skill. If we had learned all of those things.

To set us up for life, then, then that, that would be a huge step forward. But the, the other thing is that's kind of the counter to that is when it comes to kind of being with or observing someone. That has a struggle with their mental health. I think I'm unlike [00:36:00] say, I mean, diabetes or whatever other realness that the big thing that happens is that that person's persona and behavior changes to.

Like a very, you know, varying degrees and that and for the for other people in your life that that can actually be really scary. And again, they're not, they're not trained in how to deal with that. So, unfortunately, 1 of the worst things happen is that those people often say completely the wrong things, you know, like, look, just pick yourself up or whatever, um, or they withdraw.

Right. And then, and then that person feels like. You know, they're not being loved or cared for, and they're not worthy or something like that. Um, so I think they're the kinds of elements that really play out in reinforcing this, um, kind of [00:37:00] mystical area of mental health, where just people just don't understand it, and they don't, they both don't understand themselves, and they don't understand others, and that's kind of where, where the problems really kick in, I think.

Now, in our early communications, you use the word hope, and I want to dig into that just a little bit, but first we're going to go to our sponsor. So gentlemen, we've been discussing men's mental health. And one of the important takeaways I want you to hear from this part of the show is mental health.

Isn't necessarily a negative thing. Mental health is it's just your mental state throughout the day, right? You can be in a positive state. You can be in a kind of neutral state. It's not all bad. We need to get away from this negative connotation of when we're talking about mental health, we're talking about your overall emotional and mental wellbeing [00:38:00] at a holistic point.

We're not talking about you've got a problem. No, no, you, you live in a state of mental health constantly. So understand this isn't about you're broken or there's something wrong with you. This is about living your best life. So we're going to roll to our sponsor and we will be right back with more from Allen on.

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Now let's go on to the show. All right, guys, we're back and we're here with Alan Cox discussing men's mental health. And in this part of the show, we're gonna talk about tools for. Mental health and resilience. And guys, when we're talking about mental health, we're talking about overall mental health, not necessarily negative mental health.

You can go through life without anything being technically wrong with you, but you may not be in your best headspace for your best life. It's not that there's anything bad. It's just like you could feel better mentally and emotionally, and you just don't even know you're not. Uh, I, I have to liken it to my brother ended up several years ago with walking pneumonia.

And he felt bad for so long. He had no idea he was sick until it was hospitalized for weeks because he just kept adjusting to, this is the state of my life. [00:40:00] Your mental health is good days. It's bad days as average days is every day. And Alan is passionate about helping people live in a good head space because living in a good head space keeps you living your best life.

Now, I want to start with hope because it's something you mentioned in our, uh, pre conversations and our emails back and forth. Why is hope so critical to a successful conversation about, uh, optimal mental health?

Well, for me, hope was basically tied to like a sudden realization and understanding that there is actually a path forward. Right? So just, just so that you understand what I was going through at the time, um, I'd, I'd not [00:41:00] long had. Like a major mental breakdown. Um, I, I could only function or wait for about 2 hours at a time.

My speech was slurred. I, I couldn't walk for more than 20 yards. It was pretty bad. And I, I give people this analogy of. You know, where my mind was, it was like I was in this completely black tunnel with no sense that there was, you know, what way was out or even if there was a way out, you know, like, it's just like, I just don't want to be here anymore.

I don't, I don't want this. Right. And, and then. Then a program came on TV, and I actually encourage anyone to watch it regardless of what they, um, what they think of either their, their own mental well being, whatever it is, it's actually quite dated now, but it's called, it's a BBC program called The Truth About [00:42:00] Depression, and, and by the way, it's, you can watch it for free.

You know right now after this show go to YouTube it's on there for free and What that program showed me in the course of an hour was a few things one was it took my mental state if you like and It made sense of it like what I? Before watching that program. I was think what wasn't even thinking my My, um, understanding of what was going on in my head was this is just the way I am.

I'm, I'm broken. It's not very nice. And this is why I'll be forever. But what that program showed me was. Look someone [00:43:00] that's been in a reduced state of well being for a prolonged period of time Their hippocampus will be like physically Reduced in size, you know by 20 to 30 percent and and that has all of these consequences, you know Look how it responds to information and how it um, how it Kind of reflects back these, you know, chemical reactions and all these kinds of anyway, that's just one example of all these things that were going on in your mind.

And, and it showed you about, um, you know, neuroplasticity where effectively the wiring in your brain can be wired over a period of time to work in a really bad way. You know, like it. Instead of using, you know, using the analogy of like, instead of two and two making four, um, you put two and two [00:44:00] together and make five or six all the time.

Right. And, um, so what, what that program showed me was, oh, my God. There is actually a reason for the way that, um, my mind is, you know, the way is and why I'm feeling the way I am, but more importantly, what the program showed me is that all of these things can be reversed, right? It was to you to use the, say, analogy of physical fitness, right?

It was, you know, if you think of yourself as a Let's just say you're, you haven't exercised ever and you, you, you may be overweight. You, your, your, your muscles are all atrophied and all these kinds of things. That person can always get back to a state of good physical fitness and strength. And, and that's, and what [00:45:00] this program showed me is, um, you can do exactly the same thing with, with your brain.

Um, and that new understanding is, is what gave me hope. All right, now you took this and you have a background as an entrepreneur and are still in that space and you took this information and you went. You know what, we can do something with this. So you could have gone a lot of directions with it. Right.

And, but you hit this point with that background going, I'm going to do something with this and I'm gonna do something with this. I'm gonna do something more. And you created an app and you guys have seen us. If you're watching on the screen, uh, put up every yellow, a few times. And we're gonna talk more about every yellow.

Now I've been using your app for about four days now. And I intend to, well, by the time this airs, [00:46:00] I will be, have been using it a lot longer than that, but why, why create a mental wellbeing app? There, there's a bunch of apps out there. There's all kinds of options out there. What, what said I need to create something new and different?

So basically what happened is when there was, there was two, two, two, like really important things, I guess, is when I'd had that kind of realization about my, you know, giving me hope and what have you, I, I basically wanted to start learning more about this stuff. Right. And I, I turned to YouTube. I. Um, started, you know, research and things like amygdala, hippocampus, neuroplasticity, all this stuff, right?

And when, and when you're, when you're searching for this [00:47:00] stuff, you know, other things come up, right? And one of the things, one of the things that came up is, is that there's people on there that do these kind of, kind of, um, compilation videos. Where there's all these people speaking like Wayne Dyer, Anthony Robbins, all these different people, and they put it to this emotive music and sound.

And nice videos and stuff and, and something in these videos resonated with me and I, I made my own playlists and when my wife went off to work in the mornings and I basically had to then go back to bed, I would put on this playlist and basically go off to sleep, right? And after a few weeks, I just noticed like a shift in myself, like, like a little flame has come on and [00:48:00] to cut a long story short, where, where the, where my care workers have basically said that I could expect it to be a good year.

Uh, because people that have mental breakdowns, there's kind of different degrees and I had quite a severe one. They basically had said to me, it's going to be about a year before you can even think about going back to work part time. I actually got myself back to work full time within three months and they thought I was kind of joking.

And, but I, I didn't know what had worked, but I knew that there was something in what. That messaging or whatever it done to my brain, so for a good 5 or 6 years, I had this thought, I wonder if there was something in that, right? And then, and then, then I came across some research about. All [00:49:00] of these other apps that are out there and, you know, you can go and Google it.

Um, there's multiple research studies that basically have looked up all of these top apps and they couldn't find any evidence that of any efficacy in any meaningful way. And that was really shocking to me, you know, thinking, you know, there's, there's all these apps earning hundreds of millions of dollars off people, but people aren't actually being helped.

So. So I then started looking into well, what is it about these apps that don't work? Because I'm sure they wasn't designed with ill intention. I think, you know, I'm sure there was, you know, good intention there. Um, and what I, what I started to learn was things like people just find, you know, these, a lot of these apps [00:50:00] to be quite.

Intimidating dull. Um, you know, even even the most popular category of well being apps, which is, um, uh, meditation apps over 70 percent of people will not even. Entertain doing meditation for a variety of reasons. They they either don't have the space to do it. They don't. They might think it's a little bit woo or religious or old school, whatever the reason is, right?

Um, so I became more aware of, you know, why these apps weren't working for people and then I basically formed this hypothesis of I wonder if there's something in this app that I was Sorry, in my recovery, what about if we, what about if we created an app that had a solid? Kind of scientific basis to it.

You know, it played content that was [00:51:00] personalized to you. Um, and the, because it was a nice experience, you're actually going to spend time with the app and you're not going to give up on it. It's a, it's a joy to use that. That's the main thing, right? Who, who's going to spend time with an app that they don't enjoy using?

Like, you just don't do it, right? Um, so I basically. Took this idea for this app to is actually a world leading, uh, psychologist who actually heads up a department at the World Health Organization. And I was very fortunate to have a friend had that relationship to connect me to this person and. I basically said, look, this is my experience.

Now that I've understood the science, I, I think what was happening to, to, I think what was happening to me was I was getting an education, [00:52:00] there was repetition theory going on. I was like hearing the same kind of messages, but within different messages all the time. I was, um, it was personalized to me because I kind of curated it and all these kinds of things.

You know, what, what about if we created an app where we took people through like a questionnaire experience so that we get to understand them like intimately and then we. Give them this similar kind of experience, but it's highly personalized to them, right? And I, I'll be honest with you. I was, I was completely expecting to be shot down and say, No, you're, you're completely off the mark.

Um, but to my surprise, she said, um, yep, that that is what happened to you. That is how that experience made you into what you are today. Um, [00:53:00] I love the idea, um, uh, this person that, um, you know, these kind of people, they have like a research focus and her research focus on all of her papers that she'd done over time, over a period of time was around the personalization of mental health interventions.

So she said, Look, this, this is just so good. I want to actually help you as well. So that's kind of the, the, the, you know, like, um, I, I would say to most people, yeah, you'd be mad to create another mental wellbeing app, you know, cause there's already tons out there, but we, we wanted to create one that really worked for people and, and we seem to have done that.

How do you know it actually works? So it took us about, um, two years to develop the app. And, you know, I have to, I have to first say that the app didn't work and this was [00:54:00] basically, A money making exercise. I, I just wouldn't be interested. I'd, I'd walk away. Right. Um, but around early last year, uh, the app was quietly released into the app store just so that it was kind of available.

But for a whole year, we went through rounds of. Testing on the, there's a, there's a research platform called prolific and we basically, you know, through a series of studies, we, um, recruited people that basically, um, I were like, a certain level with their mental well being or already, um. They was motivated to improve their mental well being and they wasn't doing any other mental health intervention or using any other mental well being apps.

That was basically the criteria [00:55:00] and, and we then got them to use the app for a month and we checked in with them over like every week. And. We did this a number of times during the year and like the initial results, they were actually way better than we expected, but we got some learnings about how it could be better.

And we just kept carried on improving things throughout throughout last year. And we've, we've, we got to a point. Last year, where, um, 78 percent like we had we in the in the research we have, we have nine individual measures of of well being. Um, you know, like, you feel like your relationships are improving.

You feel like you've got more motivation, more energy, sleep quality, all these kinds of things. We got to a point late last year where, um, 78 [00:56:00] percent of people reported. At least a noticeable improvement within the first week and then it just went up and up over the course of the month But what was actually, while that kind of 78 percent figure is like, incredible, what, what I was really most, um, don't say surprised, but pleased about, I guess, was in some of the individual measures, especially things like self worth, something like 42 percent of people had a significant outcome.

Increase in like a key pillar like that, and to me that that was that was actually more exciting than saying 78 percent of people get at least a small increase over all areas. So, yeah, we've, we've, we've, we've done, we've, we've done, you know, multiple [00:57:00] rounds of testing. Absolutely confident that it works.

Hey guys, you know, I'm really picky about sharing things with people. Without me first going through it or knowing, uh, what I'm sharing with you guys, I don't generally share apps. In fact, historically, this makes the second app I've ever shared ever in the history of this show. Um, I'm extraordinarily picky about what we share with our listeners here, but I understand the science behind.

What Alan was doing with this app. I was really excited when we connected to look at the app and to actually have this conversation because I was getting all the information about it and connecting with him about it. It's like, man, this makes so much sense right now. I don't understand all the sciencey stuff.

I'll be the first one to tell you that, but I understand enough of it to go. I can see how this will actually impact. [00:58:00] Now guys, I am using this app. Like I said. Uh, this is not something I would share without doing that myself. It is incredibly user friendly. I love the fact that you can basically set it and forget it.

Like I can do other things while I'm using this. If you know me, I'm, I'm huge about my time, my time commitments. I'm, my schedule is so packed with so many things that. It's like, am I going to sit down for 30 minutes a day and do this and stop what I'm doing? The answer is no, this is not going to take away from the rest of your time.

This is not something where you're going to have to set aside an hour in your day and do nothing else and get nothing else done. Alan, I'm so excited at the way you plan this and the way you design for that. Just that fact alone makes us incredibly valuable as a very busy individual. Now, [00:59:00] I'm sure you can get more science, but you know, in, in the fact that we talked about mental health is not necessarily a negative connotation.

I want you to hear what he said earlier. You're not broken. This isn't an app for broken people. And can we, can we dig in a little more how this isn't necessarily. Cause I think you can explain that a whole lot better than I just did. So, so the way, the way the app, so I'll answer the question kind of a bit in reverse, that the way, the way the app works is through a process called mental conditioning.

And we, we get mentally conditioned all the time. You know, just, just like the adverts on TV are conditioning you to want to buy a McDonald's or whatever. Right. And the. The, the trouble, the, the unfortunate thing is that the way, the way our [01:00:00] brains are basically set up, you know, we've, we've got a very primitive part of our brain that is kind of always looking out for like danger and things like that and what, when, when we go through life from an early child to where we are today, when we have happy experiences and things that bring us joy.

Our brain does not have circuitry that says, Oh, this is, this is good, you know, blah, blah, blah. But what it does do is when, when there's anything that it senses as kind of harmful, it will basically put that information away. So we basically build up this kind of wiring that makes us kind of very wary of the world and respond to the world in, in a way that's not really very helpful.

And we're basically kind of, if you like. [01:01:00] Using the positive aspects of mental conditioning to kind of help us break down that mental kind of, you know, poor programming and put in a, like a better, like a better operating system inside your brain. So, to get back to the question, so what, what do we mean by, like, you know, who it's for, um, what you need to, what I certainly didn't understand until, like, the last 5, 10 years or so is, is our wellbeing.

Is not only far from binary in terms of where we're at on a spectrum. It's actually far from binary in terms of um What constitutes our well being right? So if you Let's for a moment, just imagine like an oak tree or whatever, whatever thing you can think of, but let's just say an oak tree and all of this, all of the stuff [01:02:00] that you can see above the top is, is your well being and underneath the root system that imagine there's these like major, um, roots that basically are what Govern the strength of that tree like how to what extent is flourishing?

Well that that is basically the case for our mental well being like one one of the root systems is Um, you know to what extent do you experience positive relationships? Another one is Um, growth and achievement. Another one is, um, being able to be present without worrying about the future or ruminating on the past.

And I won't go through all of the pillars. Like we have nine of these pillars, um, based on psychology. And what I'm trying to, what I, what I'm trying to convey here is that if you, if you, um, if you can think like, um, help me out here, um, [01:03:00] there's, um, Don't like in in audio like you you there's like a spectrum thing of like what what the various parts of the music Do you know what I mean?

Frequencies. Yeah. So, um, do you know, like, where you, you set all different parts of the, you know, like, the lower frequencies you want up at this point and, you know, imagine that shape, right? Everyone has a very different shape, right? And the, the trick, the trick is, is to understand what your shape is and then work on the areas where you are lowest, right?

Um, because that's where the biggest impact will be gained. So let's just, for example, say Say, say that, um, you, uh, you're very low on. So, you know, this is, this is probably, this is probably a very common one [01:04:00] for men, right? Um, it, let's just say that you are very low on positive relationships, right? I, this is one of my low areas, right?

Um, I, I have a, I'm very, very lucky that I have a positive relationship with my wife, right? But especially that I moved halfway around the world to New Zealand, right? I don't really have any really good mates, you know, I don't, I don't really have anyone that is always looking out for me. And, you know, and, and that will be having an impact, right?

And just knowing that I can then say, what am I going to do about that? Right. What, you know, can I, so like, um, can I join a, like, I'm into photography. Can I join a photography club? Um, I used to play squash. Maybe I can rejoin a squash club and, you know, it's, [01:05:00] it's all of, it's, it's really all of these things.

Like, like another way to kind of have the analogy is, is like, imagine like the, the columns on like a, you know, like a, Like an ancient temple kind of thing. Imagine you've got this plinth and that plinth is your, uh, is your overall mental well being and each of the nine columns is, is, is these facets of your well being.

If you're, if any of those are Crumbling or low, it's going to, it's going to, it's going to weaken that part of the thing and your overall well being will come down. Um, so, yeah, hopefully that's answer the question in a way that it makes you realize that it's not just, it's not just where you are.

Everyone is unique in terms of. You know, um, what, you know, if you take two people that are say five out of 10, [01:06:00] one of them might be say incredibly low on self worth. But they may, they may never spend time, um, say, worrying about the future or ruminating on the past, right? You've got the other person who's a 5, and they're the exact opposite of that, right?

And, and just by, just by kind of taking stock of where you are, and then... Educating yourself and, um, helping to bring yourself up in that area. You, you, you can make pretty big gains fairly quickly. Guys, it's simple. It's user friendly and it's about the quality of your life. You want all those nine pillars to be high.

And the more [01:07:00] you can level them out, higher quality of life you have, right? It's overall mental wellbeing. It's not deficiencies. It's not problems. It's about a quality of life. The way you see the world, the way you see your life, the way you see your world is all reflected in these nine pillars. And Alan has come up with something to help us that is simple and user friendly and fits in your day.

That's really important for a lot of us. Alan, what is the next thing for you and for EverYellow? Are we continuing development even more? Are you adding new features to it? Yep. So, so we've, um, we're, we're always creating more content. So, um, there's. There's within each of those pillars, there's many, many topics that we can we can cover and we, um.

We always want to [01:08:00] cut cover more and more more topics. So we're, um, within the next, probably within the next 4 to 6 weeks, there's going to be a big content update where we'll pretty much double the amount of content in there. Um, and yes, there's, um, there's some pretty exciting, uh, new new features coming out as well.

All right, where is the best place for people to connect and find out more about this? um if they if they would like to basically find out more about the App itself then go to the website. Um, uh every yellow. com Um, I I would also just say look, um, the app is free. It's not one of these Bs like we cut you off after seven days like where where where what's known as a an impact organization?

So Our mission is to help as many millions of people as we can it's not it's not [01:09:00] about maximizing profits Part of that mission is that we want to make sure that money is not a barrier to well being um, so You know, if you're tight with money, there's no reason not to just go and download the app I I would just say to anyone I would challenge you to just give it a go and if if I may I'll just Tell you this little story about one of my kind of um Business colleagues that helped out financially with, with the product.

He he's not quite a hairy biker, but he's, he's like a biker dude, you know, and, um, He, he said to me at the beginning, Hey, like Alan, I'm, I really love what you're doing, but like, I, I wouldn't use it. Um, and, and then when the app came out, um, and, and by the way, this guy is one of those people that he. I don't mean this a bad way.

He never contacts me unless there's a reason. Right. [01:10:00] Um, and anyway, after the app went out about a week later, I got this text message or WhatsApp message come through, Alan, I want to speak to you about Eviello. And my first thought was, Oh, my God, is he, was he, you know, found, you know, and, um, I called him and I said, what's up?

He said. He said, Alan, I, I basically had a go of using every other and he said, I was actually really surprised. It wasn't, it wasn't what I thought it was going to be. He said, I actually started using it. I didn't think I would, but I've actually started using it and I've. And I've been using it for a week now.

And, and, oh, by the way, this, this guy is not, not an extreme athlete, but he's, he's, he's one of these people that goes for a run. And every, [01:11:00] every time he goes for a run, he times himself on Strava. Right. And, um, he said, um, I'm definitely, this is after we, he said, I'm definitely feeling better. He said, but I'm also But I've also just run my best time ever.

Right. And, um, and, and that's, you know, that was great. So I guess my message there is that, um, even if you don't think you're into kind of like hippie apps and what have you, this isn't like that, you know, you just, just give it a go. Even if you don't like the messaging, you can turn the messaging down. So it kind of gets through, you know, Subliminally, um, and and how it will actually impact you.

It can impact you in in many different ways. You know, everything from more energy, motivation, better relationships, whatever. [01:12:00] You know, it's as I said before, everyone is different and the impact will be different for everybody. Alan, thank you for taking the time to be on the show today and hanging out with us.

Thank you for your work with every yellow. Uh, I, I think you guys are onto something very powerful there. I think it's going to change a lot of people's lives. I think it's going to help a lot. Okay. Yeah. Yes. Yep. Certainly. Certainly. I hope so. Guys, if you want the answer or actually still care, the U S record for fastest surface wind, I think let's see, is New Hampshire in 1934 at 231 miles per hour.

Which is just insane. That's like hurricane force winds or higher, uh, New Hampshire, who would have thought, but that's probably the most unimportant thing we talked about this entire episode. Guys take care of your mental wellbeing. Okay. It is so much [01:13:00] more than one little thing. It is quality of life. And as you raise that up, everything gets better.

Take care of yourself during the silly season. We love you guys be better tomorrow because of what you do today. And we'll see you on the next one. This has been the fellow man podcast, your home for everything, man, husband, and father, be sure to subscribe. So you don't miss a show head over to www.

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