Breaking Free from Your Rut: Insights from Jerry Dugan on Living a Purposeful Life

[00:00:00] Hear only one thing today. What do you want them to hear? Life is too short to live. It's stuck in a rut. So take the time to really think about what you want your life to be about so that it's meaningful for you. And so at the end of your life, you can say, yes, I did. Well, I accomplished the things I wanted to accomplish.

I had the impact I wanted to have. Um, yeah, because you got just this one life, you know, and for those of us going to heaven after we die. We got this one life here to make an impact and, you know, we have the way we have a way to influence others to come with us. Yeah, life's too short.

Here's the million dollar question. How do men like us reach our full potential, growing to the men we dream of being, while taking care of our responsibilities, working, being good husbands, fathers, and still take care of ourselves? Well, that's the big question. In [00:01:00] this podcast? We'll help you answer those questions and more.

My name is Brent and welcome to the Fallible Man podcast.

Welcome to the Fallible Man podcast. Your home for all things, man, husband, and father. Big shout out to Fallible Nation. That's our private community. There's a link down in the description. If you want to know more about that, warm welcome to our first time listeners. Hey. You know what? There's a lot out there for your attention.

So thank you for taking the time. I hope you enjoy the show. Be sure and let me know what you think in the comments below. My name is Brent. And today my special guest is host of the beyond the road rep podcast. If I can say it right and author of beyond the right. My friend, Jerry Duggan, Jerry, welcome to the foul man podcast.

Brent, I'm excited to be here, man. Thank you so much. And I'm glad there's such thing as coffee and energy drinks, because this is early for us. But I mean, the listener, it's probably like noon early. When do these guys sleep in? People are listening on their way to work. I'm sure that's what you're listening to now.

Oh, no, [00:02:00] Jerry, we like to start on a lighter note. This is going to be a fun conversation, guys. Uh, just for a little background, Jerry and I actually know each other. Um, Jerry, I've been on Jerry's show, Jerry and I also, uh, uh, run some of the same communities together. Uh, actually two or three of the same community.

Cap show collective for a bit. Um, I, I think we're both still in there. Yeah. I think yet, yet, and then, uh, pod pros with Alex Sanfilippo and pod match. Those guys. At least one more, one more, I'm pretty sure. Yeah. Um, uh, it's, yeah, it's, it's funny. We can just keep showing up in these same row. I'm part of a Christian business mastermind.

Oh, wow. Yeah. That you're in. I'm in that apparently, um, uh, Chris, Oh, shoot. Last name. Uh, Mike, Mike, no, the other Mike. Yeah. The other Mike don't tell Mike [00:03:00] Jerry and I have some background together. We've also spoken to some of the same events and crossed over and crossed over where the loud mouth and the comments during, uh, some of our favorite podcasts.

Conferences chatting back and forth while it's going on. And so it was going to be a fun show. I've been looking forward to it. Jerry wrote a book. We waited. We've actually been waiting to do the show until your book was published beyond the rut. Yes. And we're going to talk about that more, but we were waiting.

We actually planned to do the show months ago and then it was like, well, it was like, okay, wait, the book's coming out in a couple of months. Let's let's wait for that. And, uh, we'll get to talk about that some, but I've been looking forward to the show now, Jerry. I like to start easy. So how's your random trivia?

Oh boy. Um, if I don't know it now, I'll go Google it later. Nice.

Okay. Google it now, I got my phone right here. Here's, here's the warm up. Coffee's kicking in, right? [00:04:00] Yeah, I hope so. What is the national alcoholic beverage of the, of America? Oh man, is it Bud Light? Bourbon, rye, whiskey, or cognac? Oh, it's gotta be whiskey. Whiskey. Like we had a whole rebellion off of that.

Didn't we? All right, guys, you know, the rules do not pause the show. Jump to the end. Don't look it up. Milk your guests. Just remember if you're driving, please play along, but don't write it down while you're driving. Right. And we'll come back to that a little bit later. Now, Jerry, I don't do big introductions because it just doesn't do justice for people.

And honestly, it just. Accolades don't really help people understand who you are. So in your own words today, in this moment, who is Jerry Duggan? Oh man, I am, um, a guy just enjoying the empty nest for life and doing a startup. I started my own business, uh, a year ago and. Trying to figure out like, what the heck is it even going to [00:05:00] do?

How does it make money? So that's where I am. It's a fun times. I, I, I feel you there. I understand. I took the last year off trying to get the valuable man monetized and haven't quite got there. So. Some people make it look so easy and then you're like, yeah, I'm going in. It's like, wait, there's a lesson here.

They got left out of your lesson. Yeah, you get it's, you know, people try to help you out, but there's always that one thing like, oh, I needed a screwdriver to assemble this. Did not know. Oh, wait. There was one single flat head screw in there somehow. Yes. All I got is, yeah, no, I I've been playing that game myself.

So, you know, best wishes to you on that one, man. That's a, yeah, it's an undertaking. And then some,

I've been learning so much in the last 12 months and I'm finding out now I learned it all in the wrong [00:06:00] sequence. Oh man, that would have been great if I did this first and then put that into place and then did this. I couldn't go into specifics right now, but I was just, you know, thinking about that generally this morning when I was on my rock and I was like, yeah, but I've learned so much and I guess.

The important thing is that now it's all starting to click into place. And that's, that's exciting for me. The funny thing is right with all those business books out there, right? If I was to spin my camera, I've got a shelf over to that side of me over there. And there's a bunch of business books on it.

And I've read some great business books in the last couple of years with all the business books out there. At least in my experience, none of them are perfect for everyone. Yeah. Oh, there's a lot of good takeaways, but like sequencing and stuff like that. I have not found the magic book. How about you? Oh yeah, same thing.

And they always seem to leave out the, uh, the most important piece, which I've learned over the, [00:07:00] the last few months is that You can have a great idea. It could stand out. You could do all the, the keyword research and traffic research on the web. Uh, but it really comes down to, do you know who your audience is that you're trying to market to and try to help?

And have you even asked them what they need? And. Do that. And it's like, wow, that, that sounds too easy. I don't think that's it. And then I go do my own thing for a bit. I'm like, and then somebody will say, Hey, have you talked to your audience and ask them what they need? I'm like, that just sounds too easy.

And then I finally did it. I was like, Hey, you're a leader of people. And, uh, so my, my business does leadership development. I'm like, you're a leader of people. What's your biggest pain point right now as a leader? And they're like, Oh, people keep quitting on me. I'm like, Oh, what about serving leadership?

I'm like. They're like, does that help people not quit? I'm like, yeah, well, how? And then I'm like, oh, so the pain point is people quitting. Like I can help them do that. I've got all this stuff. But when I tell them I've got [00:08:00] this stuff, they're like, no, I don't need that. I need to help my people not quit. And it wasn't until I started talking to people that they start saying that I'm like.

Why didn't somebody tell me that 12 months ago? And then I'm like, people had been telling me that 12 months ago. Um, so it's like, oh gosh, why didn't I listen 12 months ago? So it's, it's not so much people not presenting the information to me. It's it not making sense until it hits a certain point. And I guess it's the same thing would be on the rut, like life in general.

Like we don't, um, do the things that we know we need to do, or we've been told this is what you need to do if you really want to hit this. And then you just hit a certain low point. You're like, what is this? And you realize, let me just try the thing everybody says to do. And you do it. And you're like, well, that was the easy button.

Why didn't, why didn't I do that sooner? So anyway. It's, it's funny you mentioned the quitting issue because, so I told you, I took the last year off trying to monetize my show and make full business out of that. So I [00:09:00] can just do this because this is what I love doing. Uh, another thing we both have in common, we love our shows.

We love doing podcasting. And so I went back to work and I tried a new job, right? A new career path or something totally different than I've ever done. Cause honestly, I burned out on it. And that was one of the reasons that I went to just doing this full time. Uh, cause I was just so burned out on it for a while.

But the retention of this company, right? It had good products. I was working in sales. It had good products. It was a good company. It still is. My, that opinion hasn't changed, but their training program, I, I've been a trainer for years in different jobs. I've had different, different, uh, career paths. I've always ended up as a trainer.

Yeah. And in the first couple of months I was there, I quit just because of the time suck on us. Like I'm not going back to working 72 hours a week, but. I was there and I'm seeing guys. I [00:10:00] started with quit. I'm seeing guys who came after me quit. And so I wrote up this adjustment to the training protocol and sent to my boss.

Cause I'm pretty blazing brazen anyway, so I'm like what you're half my age. So let me share some wisdom with you here. Uh, cause most of the guys I work with, they were in their twenties at 43. I was the oldest guy in the room. And so I'm getting too old for this. I was like, Hey, here is your pain point.

Here's your problem with this process. Here's how you fix it. And he's like, wow, this man, this sounds great. Now, if only we could implement it. I'm like, you can, you're the boss. It's your business. Really? And he's like, and I'm just like, okay, that's fine. You're not in a place to hear this right now. Got it.

But now, you know how to fix this problem because Jerry, we, we kicked in a [00:11:00] little before the camera started rolling, uh, laughing about some superhero stuff and some good stuff and some military stories, right? That's on the exclusive. No, I don't cut anything. What happened before the camera starts rolling, but if you could have any superpower, what would it be?

And why? Oh, man. Uh, how would you sum up what Captain America has? Cause he could throw a shield and catch it. Um, and he doesn't swear. He's entirely, like, He's like the whole package, except he can't fly. Right. He doesn't have x ray vision or anything like that. His is all like, his is superior enhancement, like of all of his basic senses and physical traits, right?

Everything up to a 27. Yeah, like he's, he's got strength, he's got speed, he's got stamina. Um, and, and he's able to handle [00:12:00] all of it because he already had that core character. So I, I've, I've looked up to Captain America quite a bit. You know, he's got the cool costume as well. Uh, you know, who doesn't want to run around with a shield with a big, you know, red, white, and blue on it.

Is it just red and white, but anyway, uh, go that later. Um, yeah, I would say Captain America, that, that combination of speed, strength, and, and, uh, stamina. Yeah. And especially with this character at the core. Yeah. Why? Um, because he'll take the hard right every time, you know, it's, uh, not going into the comic books, just sticking to the, the MCU.

Yeah. Um, cinematic universe for the folks who are like, what did he just say? What did he call me? Uh, just stick into the Marvel cinematic universe, guys, the way he's portrayed. He, he does the hard right over the easy wrong every time. And, you know, he's a good judge of character. He gives you second [00:13:00] chances.

Um, he will weigh as much as possible and be considerate of other people where they are, what their needs are. And yep. Serve the greater good as best he can. And those are the things that I, I aspire to be. And, you know, for, for those who are Christian in their faith, you know, that's, I think what we should also strive to be is, you know, serving others because it's the best way to, to, to represent the guy that we say we follow.

I like it. I like it. What's a hidden talent you have? I can play tuba. Yeah. I mean, it wasn't so hidden when I was in high school, middle school, high school and college, but, uh, you know, everybody who's met me after that doesn't know a tuba playing Jerry Dugan and, uh, I don't have my horn anymore. I sold that about 10, 15 years ago, uh, because something about, you know, noise complaints in the neighborhood or something, or my.

My family didn't, uh, find it too [00:14:00] amusing, but, um, plus I, I didn't really have any groups to play in. So I was like, well, this is just taking up space and we could use the cash. So I sold it. So that was around 2008, 2009 that I sold my horn. Um, but yeah, I played for a good 11 years or so. I really want a TikTok reel of Jerry playing the intro to VeggieTales.

Oh man. I used to jaws when I would take my horn home in school. Um, you know, my dad would be like watching TV and I'd just be in the hallway. Oh, I'll stop. Don't don't don't don't don't don't don't don't don't. He just being on the couch rolling his eyes. Um, and then if we had company over there, like what?

And then I'd like sneak back into my room and put the horn away. Um, I can never serenade anybody with it though. It's, I don't know, girls don't take you seriously when you show up to their house. [00:15:00] Trying to play Moon River or something on the tuba. Um, I can only imagine. Yeah, well the only song I had memorized when I was in high school was the theme to the Pink Panther.

So Jaws and Pink Panther and neither of them are going to get you a date to the prom. I might be speaking from experience. I sat next to those guys. I played a baritone saxophone. Yeah. Oh man. So I sat back with that crew, tubas, bass clarinets, right? All of us in that range were back there. They're usually only a couple of each or one or two of each.

Yep. And yeah, the Barry sax player in high school, uh, he was seated, um, if not next to me in front of me, cause the saxophones were always in front of the brass and, uh, he and I also were in German class together. So, uh, we would have full on conversations in German. in band, you know, like while the flutes or the clarinets always had a rough time with parts.

They probably had the hardest parts. [00:16:00] That might be why. Uh, so while the band director is working with clarinets, again, uh, Ken Mahaffey and I would just start talking back and forth in German. And, uh, at some point they moved into the back row with me. So now we can really talk and we went into depth, like, you know, If, if there's, you know, who do you have a crush on here?

You know, like stupid stuff. And, uh, you know, we try to dare each other to go ask a girl out. And of course we never did. And, um, so then we just talk about people's, you know, whatever we could see, which was pretty much the backside of everybody. And, um, it was dumb. You know, we, we never got in trouble because we're in the back row.

And there was always somebody in front of us who was rowdier. And the percussion always got in trouble banging on stuff that was just in life, right? Percussion always got in trouble and clarinets and flutes. Like they always, there were so many people who played either clarinet or alto saxophone or trumpet, right?

That those of us who played other instruments. I just spent [00:17:00] half of class not doing anything other than shooting crap with. Yeah. Get that word tacit on your music, your sheet music. Um, yeah, I had a lot of those. I, I got to play once with the Monterey, uh, symphony orchestra. You know, so I was, I was in an honors orchestra and then we did like this blended concert for a day.

And so I got to sit next to my, my instructor. So being in this honors orchestra, I got a tuba instructor and he happened to be the tuba player for a few years with Monterey symphony. And. I was blown away because, you know, we all have the same parts and, you know, in orchestra tuba gets a lot of sheet music.

That's just one page that says tacit. And then you come in on like the fourth movement out of five and then that's it. Taps it again. And you're like, wow, we pay, we played for like two minutes in a 30 minute piece. Um, it's like, what do we do? And like, oh, it's fine. And I'm sitting here like I'm counting cause I'm a high schooler and I'm like, I don't know.

I'm like one, two, three, four, two, two, three, four. I'm doing that for like 25 [00:18:00] minutes. Um, cause I want to make sure I don't miss the movement. Not, not realizing. Yeah, they're like pauses between every movement. Well, the pros, I'm like, what are they doing? Cause they don't, I don't see their heads bopping. I don't see them tapping their feet.

And I look over and Jim Paoletti, my tube instructor has a magazine up on the music, music stand, and he's just reading like sports illustrated or time or news week, whatever it is, he's got it up there and he's just reading and you see him flipping. the rest of the orchestra. So when they're flipping a page on their sheet music, he's flipping a page on his magazine.

Uh, the trombonists just flat out. Didn't care. They bust out with the Monterey Herald, dropped it on the floor and they're reading the sports section right there. And they just, every so often we'll pretend they're, they're shooting the, the, the condensation where everybody spit out of their horns. So they just like, and they're blowing the spit out, but they're just.

There's nothing coming out because they're really just reading the paper and then they would just lean [00:19:00] forward again like they're accounting. And then they would turn the newspaper now during the concert itself, they had none of that up there. They just, but during rehearsal, a lot of reading in and then of course, to me, the next time we rehearse, I bring a book and I get in trouble because I'm reading, um, and look at the pros and they're just shaking their heads.

Like you rookie. So Jim leaned over. He's like, you got to blend in like, like the conductor, the maestro cannot know you're actually reading. So you got to look like you're not reading. While you're reading and I'm like, is that like mastering the art of fighting without knowing how to fight? And he died.

He goes, I knew I liked you for a reason. Like to quote the last dragon

as a deep music professional lesson. Oh boy. Oh, those are the days. Okay. I like it. I like it. What's one purchase of a hundred dollars or less that you've made in the last year that's [00:20:00] had the biggest impact on your life? Oh, man. Um, that's a good question. Uh, I would say, I'm thinking because a lot of my purchases have been big, you know, I hear that a lot, a coaching program, a, um, here and there, a membership.

Um, but there, there are a couple of clubs I joined that the Phoenix club is one of them for like 39 a month. I got invited into it when I first left my job. And. Um, and I think it's a really neat group of folks that it doesn't seem to have like a major theme to like while we're there. Just, we're encouraging each other in our own endeavors, but we're also just kind of getting to know each other.

Over time, I started to realize, wait, okay, so Lee Cockrell's in this thing. I've talked to him before and he used to run Walt Disney World. I love Disney World. Um, Oh, his son, Dan Cockrell's in this and turns out this originally was his group, but Jody Mayberry runs it. Okay, that's cool. That's cool. Okay.

There's [00:21:00] this guy, Jeff Barnes, and they always call him Dr. Disney. Who is this guy? Oh, he's pretty much a big deal in Disneyland or something. He wrote a book, which is in my mailbox. I got to go grab it called The Wisdom of Walt and it's speaking careers built off of that. And I started to realize. All these guys are professional speakers, and that's what I want to be, uh, as far as career goes, because I want the freedom, the flexibility, and, and just have this one message to share, or maybe two messages to share.

And these guys are doing it, and they're kind of at the start of their careers as well, so I can glean off of them and kind of get an idea of where they're going. And, and turns out almost everybody in that group, but myself and Jodi, are connected to Walt Disney Company in some way, shape, or form. I'm like This is, this is the club I should have joined a long time ago.

And, uh, these guys are amazing. Like my wife and I are, are, I don't know how much of a joke it is to her, but to me, it's kind of serious that when I retire, I do plan to be one of those, you know, old guys who [00:22:00] will work anyway, just because that's less, I got to dip into my savings. And it keeps me active and if I get a paycheck in the process, why not?

And so my, my dream retirement job is to be one of the custodians at Walt Disney World, um, just scraping up gum off of the concrete for the guys who snuck in gum or pick up trash. And people are like, what? And I'm like, because they're also empowered that if they see a family is having a bad day. To go up and engage with them and brighten their day.

So maybe a child dropped an ice cream and if I could walk up and the parents were like, Oh my gosh, see, now, now we're in trouble. The guy had to come clean it up. I could walk up with a new ice cream and say, Oh, I saw you dropped your ice cream. Here's a new one. Uh, let me go ahead and clean this up for you.

You know, it happens. I blame gravity and then, you know, move on. And it just. Right in their day. It happened. It's a thing. But here's a replacement ice cream. Make the child happy, which makes the parents happy. And I just want to have those little doses of happiness for other people. And so that's, that's [00:23:00] like my dream job.

And here I am in a group of people who already have their foot in the door with the company. They know the ins and outs. Um, if there's anything that gets me to drop the endeavor I'm on now to go back into corporate life, uh, there are two companies I would go into. Walt Disney Company is one, but more specifically Walt Disney world.

Uh, cause we want to go into the park for free. And, uh, the other one is Southwest Airlines. They're like the only two companies I'll probably drop everything I'm doing and, uh, and go back in. And it may be Krista's health. My, my buddy Spencer is still the system director over there. So if he asked me to come on board, I kind of don't care what the gig is, I would work with that guy.

Yeah. What was the question again?

I might've answered it. , I think you got there just in roundabout. Oh yeah. Uh, it was the, a purchase under a hundred bucks. Yeah. And it's technically more than when you multiply 39, do dollars by 12, uh, but $39 a month. And I'm connected with this group of people and they've really done a [00:24:00] lot. To broaden my horizon of what's possible, uh, to leverage my own, um, expertise into something that could be, you know, shared from the stage.

And they've, they've even let me practice my talk in front of them and giving me some great feedback. And even when I launched my book, they were there to, to encourage me and, and, you know, kind of give me that nudge, go for it. So good group of folks. Hey, having the right support group around you. I used to think.

It wasn't that important. Yeah. Um, and then I'm, I'm part of a business mastermind that it's coaching slash business mastermind. I think all of us are coaches of one form or another in there. And we have several podcasters in there too, but like the difference that being in that group has made. We, we only actually like talk.

We video conference like once a month because we're spread out. Right. But we took part of the summer off [00:25:00] to, uh, just, you know, let everybody have their summer. And like all of us are like messaging throughout the summer. We use WhatsApp and we're messaging back and forth during the summer and chatting with each other and stuff.

But we just had our first meeting of the year back at the end of the last month. And it was like, you know, it's just that sigh of relief. It's like, man, I miss these people. Like having people who understand my world is so massive for me. Yeah, um, there, there are not a lot of people who understand what you and I do all the time.

Oh, yeah Podcasting and some of the other things that comes with living with social media as part of your job and working with people and it's It's a really, it can be a really lonely world. Yes. Oh, yeah. It's funny to watch my family now. Like when I had a corporate job, they had a hard time telling people what I did.

He does like training all like doctors because he's in a hospital. No, no, [00:26:00] he doesn't work with the doctors. Uh, it's like to help them communicate better. And you can just tell him I do leadership development and yeah, soft skills training. Yeah, we don't understand that. Like, okay, but now that I'm on my own and I've, I've built this ecosystem of things, you know, podcasting, you know, I got a market on social media, um, I'm networking with people and the, the bread and butter is really leadership development through keynote workshops and, uh, and I'm, I'm forming, I'm, I'm.

Group coaching program. Nobody knows how to share that. What do you do now? He's like a motivational speaker That's part of it, yeah, we'll roll with that it sounds cool and and so yeah, I just made it even more complicated for my family like we We don't know. We just, we get to stay in our apartment and he's always on calls and he laughs a lot and it's like, [00:27:00] yeah, that's it.

That's what I do. I used to tease people. They'd ask me what I did when I worked in IT and I'd give them my title. They'd be like, I don't even. I was like, yes, that's why I get paid so much because nobody actually understands what that means. Transponster. Right? That's not even a word. My, my, my wife would try and explain it's like.

And she actually understood what I did, but other people who were outside of that world just didn't. And now it's like, uh, he's a bum and he plays on a mic now. Uh, my wife is very supportive. I'm very blessed that way. So, oh man, Jerry, go ahead. We'll, we'll go all day. I know. I know. Yeah. Some people's commutes are already over.

I know. That's okay. I do Jerry. What is one thing that everybody listening should know about you before we get into the focus of today's [00:28:00] show? Oh man. Um, I know a lot of folks, when they look at me, they think, Oh, here's the guy who's got it all together. You know, he's probably always had everything kind of handed to him.

Um, and the reality is no, not at all. I mean, I was the son of an army military policeman. Uh, I did get to grow up around the world because of that. But you know, a lot of folks don't realize my parents divorced when I was 11. That drove my dad towards suicidal attempts. And those were things that my brother and I witnessed at the age that I was 11.

My brother was nine and from 11 to about 14 years old. Life was a living hell, you know, if it wasn't my dad's depression, which he did get help for and he survived and He's in his 80s now guys. He's doing great It was getting bullied by my cousins and not so much my aunts. My aunts were great Some of my uncles and my grandpa and it was at 14 where I just drew a line in the sand and said, you know What the life has got to be better than this and if there is a better life out here For me, this is what I would like it to [00:29:00] include.

And I, I wrote out a vision statement on Christmas cards and gave it out to my family, my extended family. And half of them were like, yes, thank you. We needed to see that somebody in our family could go after this. The other half was like, who do you think you are? So everything you see of me today is a proactive, intentional, uh, process.

And, you know, life wasn't always, um, happy go lucky, you know, that. The happy go lucky part is, is a choice. Um, I could have easily just gone the other way, you know, miserable, negative, harmful coping mechanisms and so on. So if you want proof out there that you can turn your life around, you can get unstuck from life, I hope people see me as living proof that that's possible.

We've been spending a little time just getting to know who Jerry is, uh, and sharing that with you. So, you know, who we're really talking to and the next part of the show, we're going to dive into his podcast book and [00:30:00] understanding what, what the right is, right? What are we actually talking about when we talk about going beyond the rut?

We're going to roll our sponsor and we will be right back with more from Jerry Duggan. Now, before we go any further, I wanted to share with you guys. I don't always tell you how much I love doing my podcast. Like I passionately love what I'm doing. And one of the things that makes my life better as a podcaster is to work with a company like grow your show, grow your show is a one stop podcast.

Do it all now. I use Grow Your Show for my marketing, but Grow Your Show is literally a one stop shop. You can record your episode and just drop it off with them. And they take it from there. It's amazing. If you are interested in picking up podcasting as a hobby, or maybe you're looking to expand your business and use podcasting in that aspect, talk to my friends over Grow Your Show.

Adam will take care of you. I guarantee it. I trust him. He's my friend. He's my business. Colleague, and I wouldn't trust anybody else with my show. All right, guys, welcome back in the first part of the [00:31:00] show. We're just spending some time getting to know who Jerry Duggan is. And in this part of the show, we're going to dive into Jerry's podcast, the book and understanding the rut to really set us up for the third part of the show, where we're going to talk about how you can get out of the rut and make those adjustments in your own life, because we've all been there.

So Jerry, you have a phenomenal podcast. Beyond the rut. It's a great show guys. I've had the privilege of being the guest on there once. And that was an amazing experience, but it's a phenomenal show. I don't listen to a lot of other people's podcasts. Got to admit that I actually listened to your show. So, oh man, thank you.

Thank you. That's huge. Kudos on that. You know, as a podcaster, right? We don't generally have a lot of time to listen to everybody else's shows. I only have two or three of my listen to yours is one of them. It's a phenomenal show. Gentlemen. I highly, highly recommend you go check out Jerry on that. But tell us a little bit about beyond the rut.

Yeah, uh, it started in [00:32:00] 2015, uh, three of us got together. We, we'd served together in our church's men's ministry. So myself, uh, Brandon and Sean, uh, Brandon actually is the original owner of the show. He's the one who approached me. I had a different show at the time called family time Q and A. And he said, Jerry, I want to start a podcast.

I hear your show. You talk with your family. Very genuine. And I've noticed your, your audio quality has improved over the last, you know, 80 some odd episodes. Can you help me get that started? I was like, yeah, I can totally help you. So it started off as a lunch at Schlotzky's. I just started a new job at the time.

Uh, and so we're sitting down and a third guy showed up, Sean. I'm like, what's he doing here? And we picked on each other a lot. Uh, but at the end, the three of us agreed that we wanted to still impact men in a positive way. Um, and that the key areas we wanted men to succeed were, uh, in their faith journey, in their family life and in their personal, like their professional life.

Uh, so how do you find success in all three of those buckets and, [00:33:00] and when not feel burned out, not feel you're stuck in any part of the, your life. Uh, and the reason for that was we were still running into people who would ask questions, the same questions over and over again, you know, I, I don't know how to re engage with my wife and I don't think she loves me anymore.

How do I, how do I get her to see me again? How do I. Build her up. How do I be a better husband? Uh, or it was, how do I be a better father? My kids are caught up in this, this, and this, and I can't get them to pay attention or even listen to me, or it was, you know, I want to spend more time with my family, but my job sucks, but we need the money.

We need the company car, whatever it is. Um, I just need to go away for that toxic environment, whatever that is. But it was one of those three buckets. Um, and then like, what does God have to say about all this? And we wanted a show that would touch that. And that's, that's where beyond the ruts, at least as a commitment came out of us.

We're like, yeah, let's get together. Let's start talking through who our audience is, what message we want to share, the type of episodes we want to record, the name of the show and so [00:34:00] on. And so after about two weeks of fighting, we came up with a show called beyond the rut because, you know, men feel like we get stuck in a rut at times.

Uh, or forever in a rut. And so we don't just want you to get out of that rut that you're currently facing. We want you to create a life that pushes you beyond that rut, uh, and beyond any other rut that comes up in the future. So we launched, yeah, August of 2015, uh, ultimately because our wives, all three of us, our wives told us, look.

You either launch or you can't play with each other anymore because you kept going back and forth. Like we were, we were in our own rut. We were facing our own imposter syndrome. We were like, who are we to share this message out there? You know, we just, we have microphones because we bought them. Not because somebody said we're good and we could share this.

And you know, do we, you know, all those things that would prevent somebody from launching. And you've probably run into a lot of people that say, I got a podcast. Great. What is it called? Well, I haven't launched it yet. And we're running the risk of that. So, uh, to live true to our [00:35:00] messaging around living beyond the rut, we're like, we got a launch.

And so we did, uh, with the promise to Sean that this would be a soft launch. Uh, if you don't like it, we'll pull it off the air. We'll regroup and we'll launch it even better. Sorry, Sean, we lied to you. We were never going to pull it from the air. Like we were going to launch it and then we're going to just keep improving as time went because we knew that was the way to get there.

We had to get past, uh, well the, at that time in 2015, most shows quit by the seventh episode. I think now it's by the third. Um, and the way the internet worked at that time. They didn't discover you until you hit your, by your 20th episode. And so we knew we had to get to 20 episodes as fast as possible.

So we launched with five interviews, uh, between Sean and Brandon, but then yeah, by episode 16, Sean was done. He was like, Hey, this show's not going to go anywhere. Like he was one of those guys that expected we were going to have thousands of downloads and. Get ad [00:36:00] requests and so on. They had some unrealistic expectations about the success of the show.

And, and he stepped away. Well, I'm like, well, I'm not done. I just got started and we just spent nine freaking months getting this thing up off the ground. We're not wasting that time. And, and so I stepped in as the co host and producer. Brandon was still the host and we just grew personally from the show.

As we shifted from just talking to each other about topics to let's bring somebody in who has also faced a rut. And, uh, in a rut could be any pattern of unproductive behavior, um, and specifically in your faith journey, your family life, or your professional life, or all three, or any combination of the three.

And so our show hopefully shared encouraging stories of people who also face those kinds of ruts and the practical advice that got them out of the rut. And, uh, you know, so. We might have people to talk about family, talk about marriage, talk, a lot of people talk [00:37:00] about their career, um, and there's this underlying theme in everybody's story, regardless of what field they were talking about or what angle they were talking about.

All of them had this pattern of recognizing they were in a run, understanding where they really wanted to go. So redefining success on their terms, not really listening to somebody else's definition of success. Uh, because that's where we typically realize we are stuck in a ride is that that version of success we're chasing is not mine.

That was like my mom wanted me to be a doctor or my dad said I had to be a lawyer or I was expected to become a carpenter because that's the family business. Uh, Or, I got into nursing because my guidance counselor in high school said that's where the money is. And, you know, so people get into things because somebody else told them this is how you're successful.

Or they chase the six figure or seven figure income because they're told before you can do anything, you gotta have money and so you gotta chase money. And meanwhile, people are [00:38:00] losing their families over it or they're losing their health over that. Um, and so they always just started to bring that out of people.

Did you face anything like that in your life? What was the aha moment? And what, what was that direction you realized you really wanted to go in? So understanding where you want to go and then what was the action you took to get there? And, you know, what did you give up? What did you add? What habits did you build?

Uh, if you had a framework, you know, what is it you live by? What's the mantra or the verse you live by? And you know, what word of advice would you give to people listening in who've gone through something similar and that. Has really taken off and over the years we've seen the show climb on listen notes Um, I think it hit the top one percent at one point and I didn't know that Somebody told me I was like, it's cool.

You gotta be wrong and I looked it up. I was like wow Because that sucker was stuck at like three percent for the longest time and and then to go up a bit more I was like that is pretty darn cool. [00:39:00] Um, and then just the connection with people like just This organic community foreman, um, I got some friends who call me on a regular basis just to check in and they're like, man, I love today's episode.

You know, your conversation with Mike Simmons, um, about that process of making decisions in complicated situations, huge. And I'm like, wow, that is so cool. Thank you. Thank you. Um, so that's what started the show eight years ago. Uh, so yeah, Sean's 16 episodes in. Brandon stepped away in 2021 because it turns out he became a grandpa during those first five years and he was just looking at me during the recording session and realized I'd rather play with my grandkids right now than hang out with this guy in a blanket fort.

So, um, we had a good conversation about him stepping away and I said, I'm not done. I still have it on my heart to keep going. And he's like, I'd gladly handle the torch over to you. So we, we transitioned everything over to me. Um. Which was great because he'd already paid for everything up front for 2021.

2022 was a [00:40:00] surprise when I left my job and then everything hit at the same time to pay for the show. I was like, everything's billed annually here. I should have paid attention to that. Um, but yeah, 2021, uh, January is when he, he stepped down. We officially 2021. And, um, it's been such a, a great whirlwind.

Uh, great growth process for me. And it's interesting that when I had Brandon on the show with me, I always felt safe and felt comfortable. And I always had somebody I could lean on, but you know, when it was just me, there were two things I realized one, I can move faster and I could really keep the show on track.

Um, because of two of us, we were kind of all over the place with our guests and how they tied into the beyond the rut message. Well, for the last two years, I've been able to really hone in on how does interviewing this person really help AJ. That's the avatar for the show. Uh, who's 38 years old, married, which is [00:41:00] called sweetheart.

Uh, they have two kids and they go to church together. He has this, you know, six figure income in a leadership role with a corporation, but he feels stuck because he really wants to do something else, but he feels like he can't because he needs to earn income. But he wants to be a better father, better husband, a better follower of Jesus.

And he feels like he can't do that where he is right now. And so he needs to explore what does that look like? And so I'm asking myself that before I invite somebody onto the show. And, uh, and even listening to like, how do they interview? You know, do they sound good? Do they sound alive? Do they sound like a human?

Do they sound genuine? Uh, and if I can say yes to all those things on top of, can they help AJ? And then I let them on the show. Enough. I've gotten better at saying no to people like, uh, I don't see the fit. I don't see how Christian paranormal studies fits in with helping AJ. He's not caring about that.

He wants to know how can he quit his job or improve his job so that he can improve his home [00:42:00] life. And you know, that's, that's the thing he's struggling with and worrying about ghosts is not it. Or, um, you know, any other offshoot of spirituality that's, uh. People approach me with, um, or, you know, multi-level marketing or, you know, franchising that like there's a fine line there and, and I've brought some folks on who do not so much multi-level marketing, but, um, franchising, but it's because they had a personal story that really resonated with the avatar.

So, okay. Let, lemme let you stop you here for half second. Yeah, because there's a lot to unpack right there. I need to catch my wrist for our audience. So for all of you guys. Who don't speak fluent podcaster, because I know we've got a lot of people who listen to her, not podcasters. Uh, let me unpack that just a hair.

So a Jerry's absolutely right. Failure rate is three to seven episodes right now for most podcasters. Uh, there are supposedly [00:43:00] like three and a half million podcasts in the world. There are less than 44, 000 active podcasts in the world, which means they put out regular episodes. So people are like, Oh, there's a lot of podcast.

Now there there's really not, there's only about 44, 000 active podcasts in the world who are actually producing shows on a regular basis. Most people never make it to 10 episodes. So huge congratulations on eight years. Oh my goodness. Uh, I actually just looked it up 500 episodes, 505, according to listen notes.

Oh yeah. Cause there's bonus episodes in there too. So 505 episodes, eight years. That's huge. Congratulations. And you are in the top 1 percent listen notes for all of you who are not podcasters. Listen notes is a global platform that you can look up shows on. You can actually listen to podcasts on it and create a free listen notes account.

But it also, uh, has rankings for podcasters. So a lot of us will go there for our global ranking to [00:44:00] see where we sit. So top 1%, congratulations. That's amazing. Uh, that's a great benchmark to be at. There are a lot of people who are, I had one company on LinkedIn, reach out to me. They're like, Hey, let us help you start a podcast for my other.

Well, I have another brand. Okay. I'm also a personal trainer, so. I have a company called stronger everyday training and that I'm working on getting off the ground. It's kind of the back burner at the moment, but like, let us help you start a podcast for this blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. We can get you in the top 2 percent of podcasts.

I'm like, yay, thanks. I'm actually in the top one and a half percent of podcasts already with my other show. Uh, so I kind of know what I'm doing. Thanks for reaching out, man. I appreciate it. Uh, Oh man. But what Jerry's talking about is as a podcast host, you get a lot of people who want to be on your show, like a lot of people [00:45:00] who want to be on your show.

And early on, the habit is to say yes, just to fill that roster of potential guests. As you gain experience in podcasting, smart podcasters actually start to say no more often. Um, both of you just use a service called pod match that Alex puts together. Yes. And it's a phenomenal, phenomenal service is where a lot of podcasts host and podcast guests meet.

It is, I've been on several other platforms. It's by far the best. No, no, just cause I'm on it. Alex is a friend, but I mean, the profile sheet for your potential guest. Everything is there, their website, their social media, uh, what they're about. And you can just look at that and almost make an answer off of that alone.

But if you want to dig deeper and look at their social media, see what they post about, what kind of following they have, you can do that deeper dive and give [00:46:00] a more thorough answer and say, you know, thanks for reaching out. Uh, here's the focus of my show. I don't think the topic you're offering would, would fit that.

And, but I, you know, somebody who does. And so, um, I say that because we're talking about AJ, right? So an avatar, if you guys don't speak, podcaster is your ideal listener. It's what you imagine all of us have in our head. And Jerry, you actually have done a phenomenal job of putting this together. I asked you, I was going to comment on it in a few minutes in the book part, but you've done a phenomenal job at putting together your avatar.

It's so complete is unreal. Uh, I thought I had a good avatar. And then I had a coach kind of run me through a nine page questionnaire. Yes. Together better. I was like, I thought I had a pretty good avatar until I did that. And then I was like, wow, I suck. But you have done a phenomenal job, but as podcast hosts, that's one of the things we ask ourselves before [00:47:00] we bring guests on, right?

Jerry's not on here because he's a friend. Jerry's not on here because he's an author. Jerry's on here because I think he has a lot to offer you guys. I have a lot of friends who have never been on my show and never will be. They just. They're, they're great guys, but they don't necessarily have anything to hand you guys as a, Hey, pry this and see, see what it does for your life.

Right. That's something that's put podcast hosts. We really weigh, but we get requests. I'll like, I get emails. I get, I get hit on LinkedIn. I get random emails from my website. I get random. on pod match and even the people on pod match, not all of them are going to be great guests for a show. So all that conversation, we threw out a lot of podcasting terms.

That's to give you guys some, uh, some answers to some of those questions that probably cropped up during that portion. Now, Jerry, this translated into a book after eight years of doing this, you decided [00:48:00] to actually write a book. Now I have the book here. It's upside down. That's good. If you're listening to the audio version, you didn't see me hold the book upside down.

I have the book here. Uh, Jerry, I actually sent me a copy a while ago. And I finally sat down and got through reading it. Uh, it's another great thing about being a podcast host is you read a lot of books. You get a lot of free books too. I get a lot of free books, but I'm usually reading like four or five simultaneously.

So I could need to count. It looks hilarious. It's like 12 books, like all of them. A while ago, I finally got a red guys. That's I dropped the ball on that. Ah, you try to keep up on my reading list, but how did this go from. Right. You've got this great platform and you love podcasting. You and I laugh and talk about it all the time.

You love podcasting. I love talking to you about podcasting just because you get excited about your show still. And I meet some podcasters [00:49:00] who don't, I was like, you need to rebrand and go a different direction, man. Like, yeah. Either change or. I started this in 2000, my podcasting journey started in September of 2000 and I'm, I'm in love with my show.

I love doing the Falco man podcast. I love my audience. I love talking about the stuff we talk to talk about. You've been doing this for eight years and you love podcasting. And all of a sudden you tell me you're doing a book. I'm like, wait, what? This is a different platform. So how did the show become a book?

Yeah. Um, It was a combination of things happening all at the same time. Uh, you know, seven years later after the show, I'm feeling like I'm stuck. It's like, I've had the same number of downloads per episode for two years in a row now. Um, it's not growing in that respect. I want to get into speaking professionally about living beyond the rut or taking your career beyond the [00:50:00] rut.

But I need something tangible that people can hold on to and say, this is it. And then on top of that, I uncovered, I was going through like all the original files for Beyond the Rut when we first came together. Uh, because, uh, Christian Podcasters Association, which is another group I'm in, we were talking about goals for 2022.

And I uncovered the founding document for Beyond the Rut when there were three of us and what we wanted to do by the end of the first year. And by the end of the first year, we wanted to have a written manifesto about this is why. We are doing the show, this is what we feel men are missing in life today.

And this is how we want to fill that gap and help you fill that void and live the life you always dreamed of living. And I was like, man, it's been seven years. Where's that book? And I realized, Oh yeah, it's just me now. So the, if there's going to be a book, I've got to write it and I've outlined it. I've, you know, picked up, you know, [00:51:00] writing it and putting it away.

And I realized. The last time I attempted to write this book was like three years prior. So 2019, I started writing and I put it aside, forgot all about it for three years. And I was like, Oh my goodness, if I keep doing this, I'm going to be like all my other friends that say, I'm going to write a book someday.

And they've got great book ideas. I'm still waiting for them to publish their books so I can read it and grow from it. And here I am doing the same thing and the, the CPA group, uh, said, Jerry, you're, you're hurting the world by not publishing a book. Write the manifesto first just to get your feet wet.

But think about writing a full book. So as I'm writing the manifesto and piecing it together, some folks from that group read it just to give it a preliminary look at, to see if this makes sense for men. And all the folks who read it in that group, hands down said, Jerry, forget the manifesto, forget offering this up for free as a manifesto extended out, [00:52:00] you probably have enough interviews because at this point I hit like 300 episodes or plus.

I had done over 250 interviews and they're like, you've got to tell us there are stories of people that are worth sharing in here. Your own story is worth sharing in here. And in this, you probably have a framework that'll help people have their aha moment and redesign life, create what they were called to live.

Uh, so. Think about that. Can you expand this out into an actual book? It doesn't have to be like 250 pages. It could be a hundred, 125 pages. And that's what I wound up at was like 124 pages. And it's structured in a, um, uh, the RUT framework, you know, recognize the RUT you're in, understand where you want to go, take action to get there.

And then everything else supports those three phases. And, and sure enough, I had plenty of stories from guests. I had my own personal experiences. And, you know, the five F's, you know, faith, family, fitness, finances, and future [00:53:00] possibility as the thing to always reference throughout the book. And this could be a thing.

And the Christian Podcasters Association said, yes, duh, we've been waiting for this book to come out. Um, you know, how's it looking now? And I shared it with him like, oh my goodness, get that out there. I'm like, okay. And I, uh, connected at the, towards the end of 2022, it's like August, 2022. The rough draft was coming together, but I still wasn't closer to actually publishing.

It was still like, Oh, I'm working on this project. Someday I'll publish. Then I ran into the guys from self publishing school at a podcast movement in Dallas, and I'm talking with this guy, Nate Hambrick and his sales team, and, and I realized, man, this, this program's expensive, but I've got the income for it.

They can speed it up. And plus I'm going to want to make my money back. So. That's the accountability piece. Like now I got some skin in the game. I just paid tuition to learn how to self publish a book. And they've got [00:54:00] the done for you services that I don't have. Uh, and they'll help me with the title, keywords, getting it on Amazon, making it an ebook, all those things, formatting, cover design.

I was like, okay, now I got help. Here's my investment. Let's go do this. And so now I had this plan. I want to publish this book and here's the crazy thing. I don't know if I shared this with you. So that happened the last week of August. I go back to work, I don't know what was going on while I was out of the office on vacation.

Um, I, I do know my boss was calling me or texting me multiple times every single day while I was on vacation. Um, but my team was falling apart. Apparently he was just giving them a hard time to the point where they were breaking. They were ready to quit. And something happened that broke the, the camel's back and I had the first person quit on me.

And then the next person was like, well, she's gone. I'm gone. And the last person on my team was like, well, Jerry, I only stick around because you stick around and I know you're, you're going to protect me. And I was like, so you put up with what you put up with [00:55:00] by a certain somebody because I'm there to be your protector.

And she said, yeah, and I'm like, I don't have it in me to do that anymore. And, um, and so I spent all of Labor Day weekend wondering, what do I do about this? I could, I had like three options. I could stay and attempt to get people to stay, but that's not going to happen. They are resolute. They're leaving.

So I could stay, rebuild the team, take the hit for people leaving, because that's what it would boil down to, because I can't throw certain somebody under the bus. Um, and expect my career to survive, but that meant I would have to lie to people about what happened. Why did three out of four people quit in the last six months?

Um, so I could stay and try to recruit from within, or I could leave. And uh, my wife had said to me at the end of that weekend, Jerry, just, I want my husband back. Just go ahead and quit your job. And this is the lady who always wants me to make sure I have the next thing secured before I took that leap of faith.

And here's [00:56:00] the first time in our 22 years of being married together. Um, that she asked me to take the leap of faith first before the security blanket on the other side. And that was, again, never happened in the 22 years we've been together. And I'm like, are you sure? And she just said it again. I want my husband back.

Uh, for the last year, you've been miserable. And I, and chances are you've been miserable all three years. I just didn't want to see it. I thought maybe it was the commute or that you were hangry, but I've met your boss and I know why. And for the last year, you've been just going downhill and. It's so bad that the kids, when they came to visit us on their separate trips, both of them asked me at the end of the trip, are you and dad okay?

And, um, and I had to tell them, yeah, we're perfectly fine. It's his work that's taken a toll on him. And they would say, well, okay. Well, if you, um, if you need a place to stay, we have an extra room. And I was like, oh, and my wife's telling me this finally after [00:57:00] she's been holding on to this information because she thought I couldn't be burdened by it.

But here we're at this, this crossroads as I've committed to write this book beyond the rut. It turns out I'm also stuck in my own rut and I was refusing to see it. And it really made me look at the five F's. Like I talk about it on my show all the time. And here's that situation where I had to apply it in my life for the first time in an over a decade.

And I was like, okay, my faith walk is fine. I, I read my Bible, I go to church, I pray, I'm confident God's got our back. Um, but my wife has just shared with me two, two big things. One, she wants her husband back. And two, both of my kids think that my wife is in trouble and have offered her a room to stay in if she decides she needs to leave me.

Which I was also proud of them at the same time. I'm like, wow. Cause I used to work for a battered women's shelter. I'm like, my kids have paid attention. That is so cool. They've provided a safe place for my wife. Um, but then, oh my goodness, they think I'm a perpetrator [00:58:00] and it's just not good. Um, and so I was like, are you sure?

Cause if, if you're sure, I mean, I could, I could calculate our savings. So anyway, yeah, family was at stake. That was the, going through the five F Sorry, going back to the five F's. Uh, faith was good. Family was at stake in some way, shape or form. And in fitness, the third of the five F's, my physical fitness turns out I gained, I think 60 pounds over the course of that year.

So I went from 1 75 to 233 pounds, um, in the course of one year. On top of that, I just felt like no hope in sight. You know, probably as close to depression as you can get. You know, I'd get up in the morning, I still was going to drive on because of what I experienced when my dad, uh, went through his divorce.

I'm like, I'm never doing that. Uh, but does that mean I live without hope for the rest of my life? Where did that come from? That, that's not me. I have a show about living beyond that type of hopelessness and here I am faced with it. And uh, [00:59:00] so a number of things happened that Tuesday. I went to HR, told them what was going on, that I was going to resign the moment I got to my office.

I went to my office. I sent my email that, um, graciously resigned and, and, you know, I had to Google, how do you resign when your boss is a narcissist? Just to tailor that email just right. Um, and yeah, for a little bit he bought it until he was like, but I know you, Jerry. And anyway, we had an argument there.

Um, so yeah, I, I went into the HR office. I told him I was quitting. I went, I quit. Uh, my wife and I said, all right, let's take the rest of the year off. So you, you gotta do a month. I had to give a 30 day severance or not severance, um, notice. Because I was a leader. That was the policy. Wow. 30 days. Not two weeks.

Not, hey, take this job and shove it. I'm leaving now. It was like, I had to give 30 day notice. Uh, and I was like, can I put up for 30 days? Turns out, because I had two other people on the out, I needed to be there anyway to shield them as long as I [01:00:00] could so they can make a transition out smoothly. Um, and And so that was, that was not a, that was a trial of 30 days.

Uh, I was in the HR office a lot. Um, and, but yeah, when October 7th hit and we were done, it was like, okay, let's regroup. Uh, I spent two weeks just kind of exploring all the options. And after that, my daughter and my wife. I've called a business meeting, I was like, Oh, is this an intervention where you tell me I got to like put pants on and go get a job or like, no, no, no, no.

We want you to live your dream. You're writing a book. We know that you're already paid self publishing school to publish and you're not getting a refund. Right. I'm like, no, that was paid in full. And you know, we're committed. All right. So you got to write a book. You got to get that money back. Um, and then on top of that, what are you doing after the three months, like take now till December off, regroup, heal, you've been under this guy for three years, heal, [01:01:00] and, and decide what you want to do, and we're fully behind you, but what do you want to do?

And, and so originally I was telling them what I thought they wanted to hear, which is I'm going to go find a job. As soon as possible. They said, no, you got it. You got to heal. You went through some stuff, a worker for that guy. You got to heal. But then after that, what's your plan? I said, okay, well. I know our savings can go out six months.

I know I probably have just one corporate job left in me. So if we have to, I'll go find a job. But what I really want to do is, and this has been on my heart for about a decade, I want to encourage men to live their best life in their faith journey, their family life, and their professional life. And the podcast is a big part of that.

Uh, it may not pay all the bills, but it's going to be the core of what we do. And the book, so the original question, where did that book come from? Um, I needed to write it for me because I was going through that and I needed to look at all the interviews we've done over the [01:02:00] years. I need to look at why did the show begin in the first place?

Because I needed that to tell me, where am I taking my own life in the next five to 10 years? And what's the legacy I'm really trying to create here? What's the example I want to show my adult kids about bouncing back? What kind of life do I want my wife and I to have? You know, there, there's some lessons to learn from the last time I tried entrepreneurship.

Um, and so all that came together and by about March, uh, I launched the book in 2023. Uh, but it was done on all the right ways. I had a professional cover designer, I had professional editors, I had a launch team that got it out there and, and book sales wise, I think I've sold about 150 copies altogether.

And they say most people don't sell a thousand, so I'm, I'm there. Almost, uh, my, my hope is to sell 10, 000 copies, some point between now and the life of the book. Um, but overall that book has led to a couple of paid gigs for speaking. [01:03:00] And so in a way I've, I've recouped and broken even on the cost, the investment to launch the book in the first place.

So from a financial standpoint, I hit my goal, uh, and, and probably a little bit above that. Um, That's a great reference for me to go to is like, uh, you know, what's my framework again, you know, like, what's that story, um, that inspires me just holding the book or having it behind me. It's like, yes, I'm doing this.

I'm, I'm pursuing my dream. Uh, I know what my fail safes are. I know what my backup plans are, uh, but I'm going to go for this. And then, uh, so that book was out of necessity for my own healing, uh, but also to encourage others, bring people to the show. And. Um, and even add people to my email list so I can stay in touch with them and share more resources with them.

And it's really neat that before the book, I barely had an email list. Uh, like I'd add somebody and lose somebody, add somebody, lose somebody. Uh, now I get somebody signing up every, every few days [01:04:00] because of the book, because of these interviews that I've been doing. Uh, people are downloading the, the free, um, goal setting tool called measure it to make it.

Um, cause you, you get what you inspect. So. That's really cool to see yeah, not as many people taking advantage of the free audiobook version if you buy the book But yeah, it's still cool. It's still cool. Yeah Books. Oh, man, it's good stuff. So that's that's yeah how the book came about Yeah, it started off as a realization that a goal from year one of the show wasn't happening unless I took action And then the moment I took action, all heck broke loose and my entire life changed.

So, uh, it's, it's been a literal life changing experience, uh, committing to getting that book published. Hey guys, we've been talking a little bit about the podcast that he does, his book, and an overall understanding of the rut and the next part of the show. We're going to [01:05:00] dive into living beyond the rut, three steps to getting out of your rut.

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Now let's go on to the show. Hey guys, welcome back in the last part of the show, we were discussing the beyond the rut podcast, the book and understanding kind of an overall idea of what the rut is and this part of the show, we're going to discuss living beyond the [01:06:00] rut, three steps to get out of your rut, because I want you guys to be well equipped to get out of the ruts that are holding you back in life.

Now, Jerry, let's get really clinical here for a minute and define and describe the rut. Yeah. Uh, so ultimately if you go by the, the dictionary's definition, uh, Oxford, I Uh, you know, a rut is a pattern of unproductive behavior and in the context of the show, Beyond the Rut and the book, it's what's that pattern of unproductive behavior that has you feeling stuck in your faith journey, your family life, or your professional life.

Uh, and all those really are one life. I think all three are integrated. They're not compartmentalized, but yeah, what are, what are those, um, unproductive behavior? So if you're feeling stuck, if you're feeling like you're not really making any progress in life. Yeah, you're not waking up in the morning with any joy, uh, and you've ruled out depression.

Uh, that's, that's a key thing there. Um, you know, [01:07:00] what, what is it that's making you feel stuck? You know, for me it was a job and it was a job that was taking a toll on my family life and my health. Um, so the lens of the five Fs as well. So when you're, when you're examining that rut, how is your faith journey being impacted by the things around you?

How's your family life being impacted, uh, your fitness, both physical and mental? Uh, your finances. Are you bleeding money out? And that's why you're arguing with your family all the time. Uh, and then your future possibilities. What are you doing to grow yourself? You know, so what are you doing daily as a routine to grow yourself?

Maybe it's reading books, listening to podcasts, going to classes, taking courses, um, taking time to reflect and journal. You know, those are all things that help you with your future. Um, and as you set goals as well, like what are you striving towards? Um, so R is that recognize the rut you're in. That's the first step.

The second one is understand where you want to go. Uh, that is, you know, that life vision. What does [01:08:00] success look like in your, the five F's faith, family, fitness, finances, and future. Okay. And then once, Oh yeah. Well, before we go too far down that rabbit hole, okay. I won't, I won't absolutely clarity for our audience.

Yeah. Okay. You, you dabbled into it a little bit. We define the rut is just for clarity for everybody. Now, all of us are different. A lot of things, guys, we're going to boil down to those five areas of our life, but some of us struggle with identifying what it is that's holding us back, right? We have a natural inclination to protect certain pieces of our lives.

I've protected bad jobs in the past where honestly it was the job that was just, just destroying my life. Yeah. But I held onto that security because I was terrified to not have it. Right. And so. We need to make sure as men that we're understanding and actually putting those in the right category. [01:09:00] So any tips on isolating what that thing is that you're stuck in?

Yeah. Um, two big things, uh, if you can build this up as a practice in your life. Um, I myself will journal off and on, um, in my life and being able to look at that pattern that's been coming up in my journal entries has been helpful. Um, so from a self discovery perspective, having a journal, being able to look back on what are my entries for this day, for the last few years.

Um, what I've been writing about for the last week or two, because, you know, if my job, for example, is the problem, that's going to be in my journal. Like, oh man, I got to figure out a way to convince my boss to, to let this person take time off. That shouldn't even be his decision. It should be mine. And it's like, okay, well, the next day I write about my boss again, and the next day I write about the frustration because of my boss.

Chances are, I've got an issue with my boss at work, and [01:10:00] now I can look at what do I do from there? So that's one thing. Journaling will really help you uncover that, that kind of detail without having to include other people. Uh, the second thing that's really helped me in my life is really being transparent with my wife.

You know, sometimes we feel like we gotta be the protector, well, we, in a way, we are the protectors of our families. That, that, yes, I agree with that wholeheartedly. I think the misconception we tend to have as men is that we think part of being protective is to hide information from our partner in life, our, you know, our side by side, our ride or die.

And that starts eating us up inside because we know we're holding something now from our, our wives and it's something that impacts our wives. And we think that we got to protect them from that information. And the thing I've learned with my own marriage of. 22 years is that if I share that with her, she has the same information I [01:11:00] do, and she can decide from there, do I let Jerry figure this out on his own?

Or do I point out the obvious that's right there in front of him? And it's up to her to decide. But the thing that she thrives off of is that I trust her so much that I am sharing with her. These are my hopes. This is what I'm aiming for. And at the same time, Hey. I need to make an investment in my growth for like a thousand dollars.

Are you okay with that? And, and we can have that discussion or, you know, in the case of when I left my job, she had heard me complain about my job for a good year, or finally like clicked, like now that she was up here in Dallas and we were reunited, she was like, This guy really does not like his job, but he's getting paid so well.

And this is such a great stepping stone for his career. I got to support him in going after that. So she thought for the longest time, because I wasn't telling her how I felt. She thought that [01:12:00] supporting me was encouraging me to go to work. And it wasn't until I. Kind of broke down that weekend that long weekend and told her I don't know what to do.

This this just happened It's it's a big deal. And this person's quitting also a big deal now I got to rebuild this team and it doesn't matter what I do My boss is always going to undermine that and I don't think I can change him And I was sharing all that with her just sort of like for the first time in all the time I had that job.

I was fully transparent with her. This is what I'm facing This is not what I know I need to do, and I don't think I can pull it off. And that's when she said, then quit. I want my husband back. Like, if it's not worth putting the effort in to fix it, because you know you can't, then go on to something where you can.

And I would be supportive of that. And, but I, we couldn't get there until I opened up. and been that transparent. So whether it's a journal or your partner in life, your ride or die, your [01:13:00] wife, um, be transparent. You know, don't lie to yourself in your journal. Don't hold things back from your wife. Um, and you'll be surprised.

Holy Spirit might not talk to you directly. In my case, Holy Spirit talks to my wife. Um, because the Holy Spirit knows my wife's the one between the two of us with the common sense. Yeah. So, you know, a lot of folks, Holy Spirit, Spirit and God will talk directly to you. Um, sometimes they talk to your wife and if you're really listening and being protective and supportive of your wife, you'll listen, you'll give equal value to what they're saying and.

It's okay to say that's the better idea. Let's do that. You're still making the decision and go for it. So from a practical level, uh, those are the two big things that helped me realize if I was facing a rut, a pattern in journaling or my wife. Like this is, this is what I feel. This is what's going on. And she just listened until [01:14:00] she was done.

And then she said, well, just quit. Now guys, if, uh, if you don't have that kind of open communication with your wife and like to work on that. We do a lot of episodes on communication and relationships specifically. That's one of the things I actually lean into a little bit more. So be sure and check out some of the other episodes.

And we'll dive further into that because that's, that's multiple episodes to have communication relationship with your spouse. I was laughing about us marrying the same woman because I know that game and we've been married 22 years now. So Congratulations. Yes, that's a good place to be take some time to learn that communication, too Now we understand we're caught in a rut Yeah, we understand that we're not moving forward where we want to be and we've identified what area of our life That this is jamming us up on and guys really go get the book because you can just go back to the book and go through the framework over and over again.[01:15:00]

Jerry's very direct. It's very concise. It's easy to follow, but we've identified what that run is. Where do we go from there? Yeah, um, that's where you start to understand where you want to go. I'm a big fan of two components. Uh, first is casting a vision for my life. What do I want my life to look at? Like by the end of it.

So. You know, a little morbid. I was in the army. So, yeah, you, you learn to think a lot about when I die, how do I get replaced? What does success look like after I'm dead? And, you know, so in the army, it's, gosh, I got killed on the battlefield. Did I equip my team well enough to be able to pick up and carry on the mission?

And if the answer is yes, I could die happy. If I have a family, did I set them up to receive life insurance? Do they know I love them? Um, do they know that if it weren't for this untimely death, that I would [01:16:00] be there for them? And, and so what would they be able to say about me after I was gone? Uh, what would I not want them to say about me after I was gone?

And so that kind of backwards thinking, um, allowed me to really think about what kind of man do I want to be? And it's, it's part of, I wouldn't say it's part of why I left the army. Uh, the joke is, 35 percent of me leaving the army had to do with wanting to be close to my family. And 65 percent of the decision was because I hate running, um, or that it was 10 percent family, 90 percent I hate running.

Uh, but the reality is it was, I'd say 99%. I want to be there for my family. Deployments would accelerate my military career, but it'll take me away from my family. Death would definitely take me away from my family. Uh, and then the 1%, I, I, I did have put, I did need to put some hate on running. So I left 1 percent for running.

Um, yeah. Um, understandable. Yeah, yeah, you got to hate running at some point, even the runners, I think hate running at some point. They just lie. No, I'm kidding. You [01:17:00] guys let me interrupt here for a second. Say when he says backwards thinking it's not backwards as in, you know, stupid thinking it's backwards as in look at the end and work backwards.

Yes. I'm a really big fan of looking ahead at where I want to be and reverse engineering from there will be, I think, a more apt term for what we're using here. Well, don't take that as. backwards, like thinking that shouldn't be thought anymore. I think that is reverse engineer from the end to where you want to be.

And a lot of us don't think about death or if we do, we're usually afraid of it. And it's like, okay, it's coming. I I'm afraid of it even, and I know, or I'm going after I die. Um, but it is that, that reverse engineering, engineering, you know, what do I want my family to be able to say about me after I'm gone?

Uh, and what do I want them to not say about me after I'm gone? Because I have no control over that. That's going to be what they saw, what they experienced and what they felt. [01:18:00] And they're going to share one way or the other or both. And I, I really needed to think through what kind of husband does that make me and what does, what do I need to do to be that kind of husband?

And where. She remembers more of the good times than the bad, and the bad times, she remembers the triumphs that came out of them. And then same for my kids, you know, what were the hard lessons they learned from me that helped them succeed in life? But what were the caring moments? What were the, like, the things they miss?

You know, do those outweigh the things they are absolutely glad I'm gone? You know, and, and I know people that were glad their parents died. And it's like, oh gosh, I'm so sorry. Um, so yeah, reverse engineer that. What does that look like for you? What did your faith walk look like? You know, what kind of? So if you're a Christian, what kind of Christian do you really want to be known for versus not known for?

And, um, you know, so does that mean you look a little bit more like Jesus as opposed, I don't mean like with the hair and the robes, but I mean in the qualities of, um, you know, [01:19:00] fitness, you know, is six pack abs really important? My wife seems to embrace the dad bod, but I do want to be healthy and be around for my family.

Um, finances, yeah, it's, it's cool to have money and it makes things easier in some ways, makes things harder than others. Um, but then how important is it in the overall scheme of things? And so when I talk about the five F's finances is in there on the list, but it's like fourth on the list for a reason.

So. It, money is not more than my God, money is not going to outweigh my family and money is not going to outweigh my fitness, uh, or my health and money's going to fund my future growth. So money's there as a tool. I got to think about it. I got to manage what I have well and be giving of it and, and those kinds of things.

Um, but I'm just rambling there because the question was, what do we do to get there? And it, it, guys, I'm so sorry, but it's really two short things. Have a vision for your life in [01:20:00] those five Fs. And then start setting goals and the goals be your roadmap of, okay, I want to be this kind of person when I die.

And by the time I get to year 10 or 15 or whatever it is. And then the goals are, how am I going to get there? What is it I'm going to do, by when, so that I have this kind of impact? Um, so writing my book was one of those things. I want to publish a book that covers the core message of Beyond the Rut so that I impact men in a positive way.

Uh, to inspire them to go forth and create a life they feel is worth living in their faith, family, and career like that. That was a goal. And I want to do it by December 30th, 2022. And I didn't publish until May, uh, March like 13th, 2023. So, uh. That's okay. I still accomplished the goal. I didn't beat myself up because I missed the the December 30th deadline I just looked at that evaluated what happened and then moved my [01:21:00] my deadline out to January this February And then absolutely by March 30th or 31st, so but I was still making forward progress So that one big goal was broken down into smaller goals.

And so I knew why I wasn't launching on December 30th. I knew why not January. I knew why not February because there were pieces that had to happen that weren't yet done. So the goals, like the big goal, and then the milestones to get there, and then the weekly or the daily habits to make them come to fruition to build that momentum for you.

Um, those are the two things. Have a vision, have your big goal, and then from the big goal, smaller goals that come down into daily habits. And then Taking action. Uh, so that's, that's the understanding part. Like, how do I really know what I want to do? What's your vision? What are your goals to get there?

Those are your guardrails. So now that becomes the things you'll always do, the things you won't do, and evaluate them. Um, [01:22:00] sometimes we'll create a goal because we think that's what people want to hear. And it's again, not really what we want to do and what we need to do. I've got a friend that every time we want to do something to improve ourselves, he spits out, let's do the cold shower challenge.

Ew. Yeah. The whole time I've known this guy, he has never actually done. The cold shower challenge, but he'll throw it on his goals list every single time. And then he'll beat himself up because he doesn't do a single day of it. And like, why do you put it on there? Like, why is it so important? Well, I don't know.

Jocko Willink does it. And if we're going to be like tough guys and be manly men, we got to do that. I'm like, no, just cross it off. You know, like Jocko wants to do it because he's a Navy SEAL and they had to like swim in the ocean. Yeah, it's going to be something for him. Your tough thing for the day could be just getting out of bed and not waking up your wife on the way out the door, you know, reading your Bible in the morning or going for a walk for 30 minutes.

Like it doesn't have to be a cold shower. What what's important for you to three days, [01:23:00] I made it three days. Um, I love hot showers. So for me, that was like the ultimate, it's like, just act of discipline to even force myself. Cause I, I'm a life, lifelong sinus sufferer. So hot showers are actually my refuge.

It's the one place I can actually deeply, literally deeply breathe. Yeah, for me, a cold shower is the signal to get out. Habilitating Sinus levels my whole life. Since I was a kid, I used to take hour and a half long showers when I was teenager, not the same reason most boys did it was, it was because like, it was the one place I could actually breathe.

My mom would like hang on the door. Cause she knew I'd like be sitting at the bottom of the shower asleep. Oh, wow. Because I just sit in the hot steam and breathe and sleep. Cause it's one time I slept well. Did you have croup a lot when you were a baby? Yeah. Bronchitis, croup. Uh, I, I beat my lungs and then I smoked for years on top of that.

I've had [01:24:00] twice the dreaded Rona twice. It's, you know, it's all the things. Yeah. Yeah. My lungs are like beat the crap. So three days of cold showers was hell on earth. It was like, no, I, I don't like myself enough to ever do that. I don't know if that's, I'm sure it's healthy for me, but yeah. I went, it was two weeks in solidarity with my friend.

Um, not with him in the shower, but like you're checking the days off and then. When he confessed, he wasn't doing it. I was like, what I did this because of solidarity and all that. And like, yeah, don't, don't set goals. You're not going to go with guys that you don't actually care about. So what is the T?

Take action to get there. So you've written your goal, you've got your milestones, you know what your daily actions need to be, and you're measuring that, um, T is. Go and do it, you know, go out there, get it done, uh, but to do it successfully, there are a couple of things I talk about in the book that help remove barriers and make it easier to do the thing.

And, uh, it's, [01:25:00] it's stuff I've pulled from books like the power of habit. Uh, people keep telling me atomic habit, so I should probably read the book since I, since I, yeah, I accidentally quote the book, so I may as well go and read it at some point. Um, But the principle is there. And so one of the things I learned from the happiness advantage is the 22nd rule.

So, um, if there's a habit you want to stop doing and you replace it with something that's better for you or beneficial to you, uh, you know, think about what the trigger point is, you know, is it sitting on the couch? Is it waking up and getting out of bed? Whatever the trigger point is. Make it, uh, so that the thing you don't want to do anymore takes at least 20 seconds to go and do, uh, so Sean Acor from the Happiness Advantage wanted to read more, watch less TV.

So he keeps the remote control for the TV in one room, the batteries in another room, and the latch, like the cover, in another room. So it's going to take him. More than [01:26:00] 20 seconds to find the remote, find the batteries, find the cover and then assemble it, sit down and turn on the TV, kind of a pain in the butt.

Since he wants to read more on the coffee table is two to three books that he's currently reading. So when he sits down on the couch, that's the trigger. He sees the TV, looks down at the coffee table. There's no remote because, oh man, they're scattered throughout the house. And my family has permission to move stuff.

But there are three books here. Let me grab one. Boom. And he starts reading. So that's kind of a 22nd rule because the flip side, the thing he wants to do reading takes less than 20 seconds to do, and that's pick it up off the table, open it and start reading. Uh, so whatever it is, the habit you want to do, find out things that you want to replace the trigger.

Uh, and, and make that harder to do. And the thing you want, make it easier to do. So for me, I wanted to rock, uh, every morning for at least 30 minutes. So at night, you know, before I go to bed, I text my buddy, Mike, Hey, are you up for zero 600 in the morning? He's like. [01:27:00] He's a Marine. So he says, Ooh, rah. And I'm like, all right, cool.

He's in. And then first thing in the morning, I check my phone. There's no bailout text from him. My wife said, since we're army, um, you can't let the Marine Corps make fun of you. So you can never bail because you want to sleep in. You gotta be dying on the bed. I'm like, man, look at you at the inter, uh, agency rivalry, the inter branch rivalry there for the last couple of years.

I have not bailed on Mike. Mike has bailed on me and like, haha, Marine Corps go, uh, and then he's like, all right, fine. Let's get out there. I'm like, dang it. I almost got the day off. Uh, but anyway, I get up, I check my phone and my workout clothes are right there folded on the floor. And so I just pick those up.

I walk out the room. Uh, my shoes are by the door. My rucksack is by the door. So. Shoes are on. I kind of limber up out the door I go and I use my Fitbit to track steps. So like everything takes me less than 20 seconds to [01:28:00] actuate. I want to have a cup of coffee when I get back from that rock. So everything for coffee is in one spot, the coffee maker, or if I'm doing the kettle and pour over, uh, the coffee grounds, the filter, everything I need for coffee is in one cabinet.

By one outlet and, uh, my wife finally understood why it's all there, uh, because if I have to look around for it, I'll. I got ADHD as well. So I wind up down the rabbit hole, kind of like my answer here. Um, so 22nd rule, that's one of the things. Uh, the second thing I recommend to folks is the, the Pomodoro method.

Um, and if you're not familiar with that guys, that's, uh, the Pomodoro timers, that tomato shaped timer you get for the kitchen. Uh, and the idea being, I think that it goes up to like 25 minutes is the max. Um, I don't know why, I think it has something to do with like roasting tomatoes, I think. Uh, but the practice, the promodoro technique is about picking one action and focusing on that one thing for [01:29:00] 25 minutes.

It's enough to get in the mode, get it done. And then at the end of the 25 minutes, timer goes off, you take a five minute break. So now your cognitive, um, load is dissipated. You take a break, you recharge, you refit, uh, step away from the work. And after the five minutes, if you're, if you're done, great. You move on to the next task.

If you're not done, you focus on that task until it's done. 25 minutes go by, you take another break. And so that's the Pomodoro technique. And I've been doing that for years and it turns out on the days I do it. I get a lot done. Um, the days I don't I am all over the place. I feel like I'm getting a lot done.

But the one at the end of the day, when I evaluate what I've accomplished, like one thing on my checklist, I'm like, but that was on 30 different things. And it's like, yeah, you got none of it done except that one thing. So Pomodoro technique helps me take action and get things done. Uh, so You want to write a book, for example, 25 minutes in the [01:30:00] morning, you know, set it up.

So that you can go to a place, whatever time you pick. For me, it was the morning. That's when I wrote my book. And I, for 25 minutes, instead of just staring blankly at my computer, I'd have a Post it note on my computer that said, you're going to write about this topic for this chapter. And I fired up Google Docs.

I had my microphone set up to the computer and I would just do the, the talk to text feature in Google Docs. And I just talked for 25 minutes about that topic, just rambled on like I'm doing on this answer here. And 25 minutes went by, I was like, boom, done. And I would do the word count, it'd be like 2, 000 words.

And I'm like, what? Now, it took a lot of cleanup, so it's a good thing I hired an editor, but, um, most of what I talked about was on spot. And then I just had to like, put sources in there to cite my sources and, and put data in there to support what I was saying, uh, where I needed data. Or if I was linking to somebody's story, to, to like reference the story or the, you know, have that link [01:31:00] available.

Um, But yeah, that's how I got 124 pages done was I made a routine that it was easy to pop into my studio. My laptop would be fired up, ready to go. It was in sleep mode. And I have a post it right there in front of me that would say what I'm going to write about. And boom, 25 minutes. I went in and did that for about a month, had a rough draft, done.

So, uh, altogether taking action, you're doing what you said you would do in your goals, and you're blocking the time for it. And the ways that you're pulling it off, uh, to build the habits, uh, using the 20 second rule and the Pomodoro technique, and you just do that every single day with specific strategic actions, uh, you'll build the momentum you're looking for.

Uh, so whether it's podcasting, writing a book, getting in shape, all the things, you can apply those two things to everything. Recognize, understand, take action guys, dig into the book. Okay. I will have links. It will be in my library on the website as always. [01:32:00] And in the show notes below, Jerry, what is next for you?

Wow. I mentioned earlier that, uh, You know, the, the core of my business is doing leadership development. And since May of 2023, I I've landed on a framework for serving leadership called TENT, T E N T. So trust building, empowering, navigating, and thriving together. And, you know, the fastest way to set up a tent is you stake out the corners first.

So I believe if leaders stake these corners out to their leadership style, to build trust, always to empower their people, to help them navigate for their success and thrive with them, uh, you know, celebrate them or recognize them, those kinds of things. Uh, you basically set up a tent for where they are in their career.

Uh, that's adaptable to what's going on with them. And create this safe environment where they can grow. They'll feel cared for, they'll grow. And so I've been doing that as a keynote since June of 2023. And [01:33:00] I'm, I'm spinning my days, you know, pitching organizations. If they're looking for leadership development, this is what I have to offer, uh, to help them quell quiet quitting within 90 days.

And, um, you know, just how do you stick that tent out and pull that off? So I'm doing that keynotes, workshops, coaching groups, and. With that, there's a book on the horizon about stake your leadership tent. So that'll be my big project for 2024. Uh, so as I'm doing my keynotes, as I'm doing my workshops, as I'm doing my group coaching, uh, I'll be able to glean from that and be able to write this book out.

And I'll probably start it as a manifesto and turn it into a real book. It seems to be a good pattern for me. How long did it take you to come up with Quill Quiet Quitting? Um, gosh, I, I hired a coach to help me create offers and. So we were looking through, like, how do I tell people this is what I do in a way that stands out and uses the language they're using.

And, uh, I could say it in a sentence. So, [01:34:00] uh, quiet quitting is a hot topic right now. Gallup is talking about it a lot. Uh, New York times, Forbes, all those guys are talking about quiet quitting. So it's a phrase a lot of people are familiar with. And when I bring that up, they're like, Oh yeah, I, I'm dealing with that right now.

People have quietly quit on me and, um, and they vocally quit on me after that. It, it versus like employee engagement. If I say that, they're like, Oh, yeah, that's surveys and stuff, right? Oh, the surveys measure how the engagements go and engagements, what you do. They're like, okay, but if I help you quell it, that's I love alliteration.

Uh, and I can show you how to do it within 90 days. So then they're like, yes, I need that. And I love the Trojan horse of that because. The short term thing they're looking for, the band aid, is how do I get my people to stop quitting on me at work and be more engaged, and how do I do that myself within 90 days.

My ultimate goal, though, is if I can help you with that one problem, I can [01:35:00] help you relieve stress at work, which also relieves stress at home, and it builds the margin you need to really think about what does it mean to create a life worth living in your faith. Family and career because chances are you're so up to your eyeballs and dealing with employee engagement and people quitting on you That it's taking a toll on your faith your family your fitness your finances and your future possibilities.

So That's the connection into the podcast. It's like it sounds like a very niche topic for a very niche group of people Targeting it towards health care leaders specifically. So insurance health systems hospitals Physician groups, physicians, um, but really it does apply to any type of business out there that has some kind of leadership structure to it.

Uh, and my underlying hope is that I do free up that time where they think about life in general and redefine success on their terms. So all that, that's what's next. There's the best place for people to find you, Gary. Uh, the best place is the website for the [01:36:00] podcast, beyondtherut. com. Uh, there you'll find links to the episodes, my social media.

If you want to work with me on the leadership development side, there's a button or a tab that says work with me and I'll take it there. Um, and then, uh, I haven't put it on the website yet, but by the time this episode airs. Uh, there's a merch store. I got a merch store. I finally got a merch store guys Just launched yesterday Eight years later Jerry, I know this is the question that's been weighing you down this whole time the national alcoholic beverage of america You said whiskey is actually bourbon.

It's American whiskey. I said I quit. No, I'm kidding. So it was Kentucky instead of Tennessee. Good lord. No, I'm kidding. It's American bourbon. Whiskey, whiskey is international. It's a broad family. Yeah. Rye, bourbon, scotch are all whiskeys. So bourbon is the American bourbon. [01:37:00] Purely American whiskey is bourbon.

I did not know that. Wow. I knew, I knew this was troubling you this whole time. Right. Everybody cared about this whole conversation. Not really. Yeah. The rest of the day though, that's going to be the rabbit hole. I go down history of bourbon. Now, you know, right. They give you conversation topics at the battle.

Jerry, take us out. If our listeners. Hear only one thing today. What do you want them to hear? Life is too short to live it stuck in a rut. So Take the time to really think about what you want your life to be about so that it's meaningful for you. And so at the end of your life, you can say, yes, I did well, I accomplished the things I wanted to accomplish.

I had the impact I wanted to have. Um, yeah, because you got just this one life, you know, and for those of us going to heaven after we die, we got this one life here to make an impact. And, you know. We have the way we have a way to influence others to come with us. [01:38:00] Yeah. Life's too short guys. Go check out the podcast by a copy of the book, beyond the rut, Jerry Duggan, Jerry, thanks for hanging out with us today, guys, as always be better tomorrow because of what you do today, and we'll see you on the next one.

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