From Safety to Generosity: Keys to Lasting Connections with Marriage Therapist Kristal DeSantis

[00:00:00] We live in a world where relationships seem more complex than they've ever been, but that's okay because we have licensed marriage and family therapist, Crystal DeSantis to help us decode the intricacies of modern connections. Crystal's book, Strong, a relationship field guide for the modern man is by far one of the best books I've ever read on relationships in a lifetime that I've dedicated to building stronger relationships.

In this episode, you'll be able to gain the base knowledge of a powerful, strong framework, a game changer of romantic, platonic, and familial relationships, which is enough to start you on a better path forward in all your relationships. We're going to unlock all that and more on this episode of the Fallible Man podcast.

So let's get started. Here's the million dollar question. How do men like us reach our full potential, growing to the men we dream of becoming while taking care of our responsibilities, working, living, being good husbands, fathers, and still take care of ourselves? Well, that's the big question. And in this podcast, we'll help you [00:01:00] with those answers and more.

My name is Brent and welcome to the Fallible Man Podcast. Welcome to the Fallible Man Podcast, your home for all things man, husband, and father. Big shout out to Fallible Nation. That's our long time listeners and a warm welcome to our first time listeners. Hey, from the bottom of my heart, thanks for giving us a chance.

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My name is Brent. Today. My special guest is licensed marriage and family therapist, Crystal DeSantis. Crystal, welcome to the Fouled Man podcast. Thank you so much for having me on. Now, Crystal, how is your trivia skills? I love trivia. I am not very good at it, but I am always game for a try. That's all you can do, right?

That's, that's what counts. So you try and you know, to your credit, I actually look for questions that are probably going to stump people. [00:02:00] So,

so here's today's trivia question. Who is Taylor Swift's? We are never getting back together. Allegedly about is it a Harry Styles, B Taylor Lautner, CJ Gillian, RD John Mayer, and she has a group to choose from. Doesn't she? I know this one. Uh, let's see. See. All right, guys, hedge your bets. If you're driving, please, for God's sake, don't write down the answer.

Just stick it in the back of your mind. We'll come back to that later in the show. Uh, cause I know we're all super concerned about that. Now, Crystal, I don't do huge introductions. So in your own words today, in this moment, who is Crystal DeSantis? Oh, um, So I am a marriage and family therapist, but I'm somebody who's passionate about healthy relationships.

Um, I'm passionate about a lot of things, good food, travel, my, my dogs, um, getting outside in nature. I think, yeah, I just, I'm [00:03:00] a, I'm a passionate person. That's who I am. Excellent. Now you didn't tell me you've listened to some of the episodes of the show, so you know the onslaught that happens next. You, these are the fun get to know you questions.

All right. If I was to sit down at dinner with you and your family, what is the funny story they would tell to try and embarrass you? Oh, gosh. Um, hmm. It depends. So if you're asking, you know, my husband and my, my bonus daughter, um, gosh, they might tell funny stories from traveling. Um, we do travel a lot as a family and there's always, you know, some direction that I'm very convinced that this is where we're supposed to be going.

Um, and generally it's, you know, it's not the direction, um, and then with my family, oh, I can, I can tell my family [00:04:00] at one time. So when I was growing up, I was at the park and you know how at the park they have some of those like pull up bars or some of those gym things. Um, and it was the era of incredibly tight pants, um, the skinny jean.

And I was trying to show my family how like athletic I am that I was going to do a high kick. And so skinny jeans, right? So you bring one leg up and the other leg comes right up and I slam straight on my butt. Um, and of course the whole family just like, you know, uh, burst out in laughter, but yeah, so the, the direction directionally challenged and then the thinking maybe I'm more athletic than I actually am.

If you could kick even mildly high and skinny jeans, you're doing really well. So it was the jeans that restricted them. I have way more skills than that. I'm sure. No, no questions. No, I, I, I browse your, your Facebook. I believe that you are [00:05:00] athletic. You, you, uh, seem to have a very active lifestyle, so that's very awesome.

In a time when everybody is more and more not active. So, well, I, I love it. Um, I've always loved walking and that's another thing, right? So I would get lost as a kid and I, one time I had to call it, you know, I had to go to the local police officer and be like, can you take me home? I don't know where I am.

Cause I just had gone on this really long walk. Um, um, but. I recently discovered hiking. Well, you know, recently, but you know, during COVID, um, kind of being trapped, um, started going hiking. And so I, I, anyway, long story to say, my proudest hike is I went on my 40th birthday last year to hike Patagonia. And so, yeah, climbed Fitzroy on my birthday.

And that was just like, oh, yes. And, you know, just staying active throughout life is. Um, [00:06:00] pretty powerful feeling. And then, you know, being on, anyway, being in Patagonia on Fitzroy on my birthday, I was like, wow, this is like peak, peak moment right here. For sure. See, years later, you redeemed that. You justified it totally.

I mean, come on. I've been, I've been chasing that high ever since.

Crystal, if you could be in any movie, what would it be? Ooh. You know, I've, I, I was actually listening to one of your, um, one of your podcasts, which was the Shakespeare one. And I would love to be in a period piece, like a Bridgerton to wear all the, the outfits and the whole thing. And that would be the movie I would want to be in.

I love it. I'm, I'm a, you wouldn't know by looking at me necessarily. I'm a huge Shakespeare fan. Like I owned a full copy of the complete works of William Shakespeare by the time I was 15. Nice. Well, I was, um, in King Lear [00:07:00] and in college for a college. What's your favorite Shakespeare? You know, I love Midsummer Night's Dream.

Romantic, classic, cute, beautiful. I've seen the, you know, the movie with Kenneth Branagh, Emma Thompson. Um, it's one of my favorites. I'm, I love Much Ado About Nothing. It's something I could just, I love the movie Kenneth Branagh did, but I can just sit there and laugh and. It's clever and funny and good stuff.

Shakespeare, you know, he knew, he knew how to turn a phrase, right? Or we wouldn't be talking about him all this time later. So of course the next logical question is what's your go to weapon for the zombie apocalypse? Now that we've talked about Shakespeare. You know, I recently started getting into archery.

Yeah. Yeah. So the problem is how do you get the arrows back? Right. Cause that would be a challenge in the zombie apocalypse. Um, But yeah, I [00:08:00] would love to have like if I had a magic quiver it would be archery all the way So you need a movie quiver? Yeah

Compound or recurve or any kind of bow? Recurve. Recurve? My husband does the compound bow. Um, and you know, he, he actually wants to use it for hunting. I'm just training for the zombie apocalypse here. You know, priorities, right? You know, don't worry. I'll keep us safe, babe.

Love it. What purchase of a hundred dollars or less you made in the last year that's had the biggest impact on your life? You know, I mean, this is just what popped into my mind is I got both of my dogs. Um, Some pretty heavy duty life jackets and it just brings me so much joy because now we can you know We can take them paddleboarding and one is a pug.

So he really you know, he just sinks in the water So I got him a really [00:09:00] heavy duty Life jacket so he can come with us Um, and the other one's a little terrier. So, you know same thing I can see him in the water You And yeah, both of those are under a hundred dollars, but yeah, brings me a lot of joy, especially in the summer here in Texas where all you want to do is go in the water and the poor dogs can't, you know, walk outside.

So now I just really want a picture of your pug on your paddle board. Okay. I'll send it to you.

That's just such a great image in my head. I got to see that. Now, now this is a guy's show, right? So here's the defining question, Batman or Superman? Um, I'm gonna say a Superman. Yeah, yeah,

I guess we can still be friends. Okay Well, yeah I mean Batman's pretty cool. He is very cool But you know, there's the extra power that comes with [00:10:00] flight. That's you know Little extra. That's okay. My best friend's a Superman guy. I just I found there are very few things like all guys have definitive Opinions like yeah opinions on in life.

I just like rock solid Every man has a definitive opinion on Batman or Superman. It's hilarious. If you had to eat one meal for the rest of your life, what would it be?

One meal? That's a tough one. I mean, sushi. Sushi? Because there's so many variations. So, I'm in it for it. Yeah. I got to ask, you said you're in Texas. Are you a transplant? Yeah. It's because they don't have this deep Texas accent. No, no. So I've lived here for [00:11:00] 11 years at this point, but my husband is Texan and he's from here, so that's why I live here.

My, my whole family's Texan. So I mean, I'm like, wait, I'm not hearing the accent at all. Yeah, no, I enjoyed the accent. It's not gonna, I'm not going to do it.

Except when I maybe had a little, you know. And then the accent starts to come out a little bit.

Hey, bonus points. You drink whiskey right there. I actually prefer scotch. Yeah. Yeah. My husband's a scotch snob. So he really likes the like super smoky ones. Um, but I'm on the like whiskey end of, you know, I like the smooth, um, But I do, I do really like a good smooth blend. It's

I, I can do, I [00:12:00] like scotch, but I can't drink much of it. Like it gives me a headache and I like to really smoke you as myself, but it gives me a headache for some reason. Sure. I mean, even sometimes smelling them, the really strong ones. I'm like, Oh, but you know, it's a good, and I know we're totally not here to talk about alcohol, but, um, Nescau.

Are you a mezcal fan? Oh yeah, yeah. Okay, so that's kind of that like, you know, little other medium. I live in a town that is heavily Hispanic, like 96 percent Hispanic. Okay. And so like, my neighbors, we watch their house, uh, cause every Christmas they spend a month down in Mexico. And so we keep an eye on their house.

Uh, they brought me back this incredible bottle of tequila that you can't even buy in the United States. I've never even heard of it. [00:13:00] Uh, so I, I get to sample everything from that region of the world. Periodically. That's great. It's good to have friends from other cultures, right? Yeah. We, we get some mezcal up here every now and then.

And, uh, I get people who are like, what is that? I was like, not for you. That's what that is. You wouldn't appreciate it. Crystal, before we tune in a little bit more onto the topic today, what is something everybody should know about you before we get him? Um,

everybody should know about, I think, well, this is maybe going to sound really like, whatever. It is what it is. But, um,

I think what, what I want to say is I really care about this topic. I really care about the state of relationships, um, [00:14:00] which is why I do this. But I think listening from that perspective, um, I would, I would ask for that, right? As somebody who's not necessarily, um, like, having a dictum for people to follow.

But more of that, like, I, this is my offer of care, um, for those who are dedicated to bettering their own lives and relationships. All right. Now, guys, we've been having a little bit of fun just getting to know who Crystal is as a person and, uh, seeing what makes her tick a little bit. In this part of the show, we're going to dive into the incredible landscape and minefield that is modern relationships, or at least that's what it feels like a lot of times these days.

Crystal works with couples and specifically likes to work with men to help with the relationships and she's got some great insights She wrote an incredible book called strong a relationship field guide for the modern man And that will of course be in my [00:15:00] bookshelf and we're gonna talk about that a little bit more later But I'll tell you right off the back or so.

I enjoyed the book incredibly It was it was a great book you did incredible work on there, and I think it's gonna change a lot of lives So thank you. Thank you for that I'm always looking for good resources to point men towards and that just joined that list. But before we deep dive into the book, let's talk about the dynamics of relationships in the modern era, right?

How are millennials and Gen Z traversing relationships and their expectations of relationships at this point? Is I'm a little I love having an expert on in this because I'm a little outside of this I've been married for 23 years. I've been with my wife for 25 years And I see the differences in modern relationships Uh, whether like my niece just got married saturday um, and I watched that whole thing unfold for two years as they've been heading that direction [00:16:00] and I look at some of those challenges and it's like Man, I, if I had to like start again or even, you know, start new, right.

My wife and I are both over 40 in this different generation and this different look and expectation. I don't know that I could traverse it by myself. So can you talk to us a little bit about what's going on now? Yeah. I mean, I think you bring up probably the most important point, which is the level of stress and difficulty.

That a modern, like a millennial or a young millennial or a Gen Z is facing is like by leaps and bounds exponentially more difficult than people a few generations before, right? Um, just the, the amount of distractions, the lack of support, the lack of, positive role models when it comes to healthy relationships.

A lot of people grew up [00:17:00] not really having positive role models of healthy relationships. So when they're going out there, they know a lot what they don't want, but they're really, and this is part of why I wrote this book, there really isn't kind of a clear guide to what do I look for. Right? And so people are almost primed to, to say no.

They're not looking to say yes, they're looking to say no, right? It's like swipe, swipe, swipe, no, no, no, no. Um, and so that is already a giant, um, a giant like obstacle. And then once you do get in a relationship, I mean, one, one thing I noticed working with people who are in the dating phase is our lives are so busy.

There's so much competition. Prioritizing dating is like, I mean, so easy to knock down the list, even once people get married. It's like, I've seen so many people that are like, what, what are your top priorities in life? And maintaining their relationship, even if they're a married couple is like way at the way at the back of, and you know, so I think that's just like the, the challenge of [00:18:00] actually focusing on and maintaining a relationship is like so much harder these days.

Um, and then of course the wasteland of online dating is, uh, another horrific, uh, extra special detail that, so it's, it's tough out there. You were talking about swipe, swipe, swipe, and I was like, oh, thank God I never did that. So I actually met my husband. So we, we, um, met back in 2010 and we met on an app.

Bye. Um, back then, it was like, I mean, it was the baby age of online dating. Like, we didn't even tell people that we met online. You know, we were like, we can't tell our families this. It's almost like, you know, what are they going to think? Um, and now, it's what everybody does. So, I think maybe we got, or I got the opportunity to see a little bit of that, but even in a very different era of online dating, where it wasn't as, like, brutal as it is today.

You know, I hadn't considered the time [00:19:00] element. Uh, you know, I, I know like as a society, how busy we become just obsessively busy, but I, it hadn't even clicked to me that that time element would become an issue in relationships. So much. I mean, you know, the whole idea of like people ghosting people, canceling often it's like, well, with what time am I going to be right?

Like trying to get schedules lined up. Is already so complicated. And then, you know, the effort of like, ah, I'm not gonna go out and then spend time with a person that I'm may or may not get along with. Like, that sounds like a lot of work. Instead, I could scroll on Instagram and see things I just want to see, or I could talk to my friends that already have, or, you know, I could do something that I know I want to do.

And again, when it's, there's, there's, um, such a premium on free time, like, are you really going to spend it with someone you may or may not enjoy, you know? [00:20:00] Yeah, my mind is just blown. It's like you just rock my world now. And I, I grew up in a generation where at the end of Gen X, that was my relationship was a focus for me coming up.

Right. Finding that person that I wanted to spend the rest of my life with, that I wanted to partner with was such a priority to me as I was growing up. I mean, I, it didn't even occur to me that now it's like, you know, people have different priorities and they're this, this may not be that. Yeah. That was something you talked about in your book.

That's really surprised me was just, this is like, you know, not everybody actually gives a crap about wanting to be in a relationship. That's not a priority for a lot of people. And then, you know, some people just, Oh, like it's, I'm, I'm dating myself here, but it's like, wow, I just didn't even think that.

Right. I know I'm really busy, but never occurred to me that that wouldn't be [00:21:00] important to people. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. And I really like highlighting that because then to me, It showcases kind of the importance of intentionality and ownership when you do enter into a relationship. Um, because it, it does have to be a cog, uh, like a cognitive choice to switch into partner mindset.

Um, whereas I do think in the past it was kind of more like expected, right? Everyone's going to get together. Into a relationship at some point and you know, the clock is ticking All right So like in a certain age range your your focus should be on finding a partner Otherwise, you're going to be one of those people that you know are left behind um but really, you know the option of Well in some ways the option of choice in some ways the reality of surviving in this economy um has made relationships Like not always a priority for You A lot of people, and that's okay, but you [00:22:00] got to know that about yourself.

Yeah. I just didn't even, didn't even agree. My wife was 19 and I was 21 when we got married. So I get what, what is you, you work with families, you work with couples. What is the most common problem you're seeing in relationships in your practice? What brings most people 90 percent or not? Yeah. I'm just going to go ahead and throw that number out there.

It's not a statistics class, um, is conflict and communication issues. Right? Because that kind of blankets a lot of other deeper issues. Lack of connection, lack of intimacy, inability to be vulnerable, people not really being honest with each other. Um, but it all kind of comes out in communication and conflict issues.

That's usually with a phone call. My partner and I are not getting along, we can't communicate, our fights are getting really bad, or we just keep fighting about the same things. Um, That's kind [00:23:00] of the, at least for couples in crisis, those are usually the things. Yeah. People just are not knowing how to communicate with each other these days.

Or, you know, it's interesting. Um, and, and this is kind of the, being able to have a logistics conversation is very different than being able to have an emotional conversation, right? But emotional conversations are what drive intimacy. So really what I see is often people struggle having those intimate vulnerable conversations because that's not something we really teach.

So again, most of the people that come into work with me, they have a command of the English language, right? They have jobs, they exist in the world. It's not that they can't communicate, right? I'm not a speech therapist. Um, but it's really about helping people have vulnerable, intimate, emotionally focused conversations is where I don't think [00:24:00] most people have that skill set.

Which you got to, you kind of got to have it when you're going to try to have an intimate connected relationship. I call that report versus rapport. Yes. Love that. Men, men are really good at the report because it's when I talk to guys about their relationships. That's one of the things we talk about because guys are really good at reporting.

We can tell you what happened that day or but having a Connective rapport conversation is very difficult and something that we struggle with sometimes in our relationships I know so even I've grown up going to classes on relationships and stuff like that. I grew up a pretty kid Relationships were a huge focus of my life And so like my wife and I still go to marriage classes every year just just for fun We it's like, you know, what let's let's do something to put back into us this year, right?

We may not learn anything. We may just like the last time I think we just kind [00:25:00] of laughed at the younger couples And had a lot of stories like oh, yeah, I know because we're getting these young couples going else. Oh, that will never happen Oh, yeah, well You'll get there But we always want to have that check in, right?

Yeah, that is one of the things that really I even struggle with many years into my marriage. It's like, okay, my wife is not asking me for the daily report. She's asking me to actually have a conversation with her. Yeah. And that's, you know, and I, I love a bunch of things in what you said. So number one is, you know, treating your relationship like an ongoing, um, something you're ongoingly, uh, invested in, right?

So going to these retreats, going to these places where even like you said, you might not quote unquote learn anything new, but I was just thinking, um, you know, as a therapist, I have to take CEUs to continue to update my skillset. And, you know, sometimes it's the same classes [00:26:00] that, you know, we all have to take ethics again, right?

Um, so, but, but it's that this is part of what it is. requires to have a license, right? And so I was just thinking about marriage license, like technically, like everybody needs to be doing their CEUs here, their continuing education credits for, for being able to continue to stay married and do it well. Um, and that's, that's something that I think, yeah, you know, cause the other piece that was coming up for me is like being a good human, being a good man doesn't necessarily make you a good communicator or a good partner.

Right? And I think that's often some, sometimes the, the rub, right? It's like, but I'm such a good person. It's like, yes. And you don't have any communication skills. So like, these are two separate things. You can be a great human and lack a skill set. It just is what it is. But as a good human who's dedicated to your marriage, you can learn that skill set.

Right? And that would then show, The goodness of your character or the integrity of your [00:27:00] character, right? Um, but yeah, we don't automatically, I mean, unfortunately this is not, this is not that iteration, um, but we don't get the communication download the minute we get married, right. Or the minute we get into a relationship that, you know, Oh yeah.

Software update. I've got those skills now. I've got, I can do the report. Just working on that. We're just going to plug it in and upload like the matrix. Yes. Plug that program in. A hundred percent. And you just download that chip. Communication 101 go. There you go. Yeah. So anyway, Can I ask on that note, um, you know, you mentioned we, we talked about swiping and dating apps.

How is technology impacting relationships? Wow. Um, It's having an impact in so many different ways, and not just romantic relationships, um, parent child relationships, which is then part of what I see the younger [00:28:00] generation who have grown up with parents who have always had phones as well, is Again, and I'm, I'm, you know, we're not here to necessarily talk about the effect on, you know, child brains, but the attention span is really low.

You know, the inability to have necessarily a face to face eye to eye conversation. There's so much like need for stimulation. Um, honestly, I see that a lot with couples where they just can't put their phones down and be in a room together or be at dinner together and have a conversation. Um, yeah, so I would say that.

In a lot of ways, technology has just kind of put one more barrier between human and a lot of different arenas.

Is that the dog snoring? I was gonna say, can you hear my dog snoring? That's hilarious.

Oh, I love it. This is real life. We don't [00:29:00] even pretend here. This is real life. So, you know, dog snoring. Hey, I've had cats jump on keyboards in the middle of the show. It's great. Gosh. Right. That's just the real world life happens. I mean, I will say though, um, technology is not all bad. Right. Cause I've had couples who are able to, um, maintain a deeper connection.

Like for example, if one person is, um, like deployed, right. Working with military couples or, you know, couples that are separated for whatever reason, you know, having technology is a huge burden. I mean, I remember, you know, growing up and talking to my grandma on the phone long distance, you know, like. It's like, all right, let's, let's, let's say hi real quick and then let's, you know, let's keep it short because this has got costing us, you know, hundreds of dollars.

Um, so I think that change is, is incredibly positive. People can, um, use it to facilitate connection, but it can also be an absolute obstacle to connection. [00:30:00] So, you know, again, it's not so much the, the thing, it's how we use it. I think that's the case for most things in life. You're, you're talking about checking in with your grandma.

My wife and I did most of our relationship long distance before we got married. Like we were on opposite sides of the country. I spent so much money on phone calls, on just phone cards to be able to call my wife. Cause I was in Florida and she was in Washington or I was in Virginia and she was in Washington and it's been so much time sitting on the ground under a pay phone with a calling card.

With a card, yes. Okay, checks just go into calling cards. That's, that's what I was paying for. Yeah. And wasn't that such a like sign of love when somebody mailed you a calling card? Right. They're like, I love you, call me, happy birthday. My wife would actually write me letters. Yes. Oh my goodness. I don't know that most kids might.

I have a nine and a 12 year old and you did what? [00:31:00] It's not like you write a report for school.

So yeah, it's a, it's a different, different world for sure. And that, you know, there are a lot of guys you were saying, a lot of guys who they think they're good men and they're good husbands and they, they probably are for the most part, but their marriage isn't going how they think it should. They're, you know, they think they're, They're going to work, they're providing, they're trying to do the things they think they're supposed to do.

And it's just not clicking. What are some of the things we might not know as men that we are supposed to be doing that we're just missing for lack of a better return? Our spouses aren't necessarily telling us we need to be doing. Sure. Yeah. And I think that's kind of, I guess what prompted me to write this book is, you know, For a lot of past generations, again, this is like huge broad strokes because there was a lot of, you know, deeply intimately connected marriages throughout history, right?[00:32:00]

But kind of broad strokes is, you know, men being told for a long time that their role, their primary role was financial provision, right? And so, you know, if you had to work 80 hours a week and really kind of never see your kids because you were working so hard to put a roof over their head, like, good job, man, right?

Good job, bro. You were doing great. Your wife is proud of you. Everybody's proud of you. But now, what has changed is Which I think is a really positive change. It's like, men are not just paychecks. Your wife, if she loves you, if she's a healthy woman, she also wants you to be present as a human being, right?

But if you continue to show up and just be your, like, utilitarian self, right? You continue to do the report, Well, and she's like, Hey, babe, how are you? How are you today? What was your day like? And you're like, well, I woke up at 8am. I drank my coffee and I went to work and then I talked to Bob and then I came home.[00:33:00]

What's for dinner? You know, it's like that skill set might have worked back in the day when the wife would have been like, Oh, that sounds lovely and very manly. And I don't understand any of it. And your dinner is served, right? Um, that's not exactly the kind of relationship that most modern adults are looking for.

Um, they want somebody who they can actually have a conversation with, engage with, feel connected to, um, and get to know on a more human level than just, I get the daily reports. I don't actually know what they do. It's fine. We'll talk at retirement.

It's so deeply ingrained in men. Um, you mentioned it in your book. Uh, what does it preside provide? Uh, I'm missing the last one. Um, I protect provide and that's rather than parent, right? That is so just ingrained in generations and [00:34:00] generations of men. Uh, and it's one of those things, right? Cause modern women are looking for more.

Obviously, but we're not teaching guys more than that, right? That hasn't changed. That format has been the same for hundreds of generations at this point in the world. That is, this is what the men do. And we, as men are not being taught to do something different yet. Still in 2024, that's, that's the model we're taught.

Yeah. And that's where, you know, for example, the protection piece, right. I would say that an unhealthy woman would want a guy to be like. beating other guys up to prove his love to her, right? And so how do you then transition to, well, I do want to protect my, my partner. Um, how do I do, how do I prove that I'm a protector in this relationship?

[00:35:00] Um, if I'm not focusing on like being the biggest guy that can beat up everybody else. Right. Um, and so again, like, well, what does it look like to be protecting your family emotionally? Right. Um, and, and that's also where that Kind of self knowledge piece comes in. Like what are some of your advices as a man, um, that might be endangering your family, right?

Is it your porn use? Is that your, you know, lack of ability to self regulate your alcohol use? Is it, you know, your financial, you know, dealings, whatever it is that might be putting your family at risk, not necessarily in the physical sense, but more in that like environmental, uh, emotional safety? Um, is again, just that little, little nuance there.

You know, I, I don't think that was ever taught to me, that I have to protect my family from my own weaknesses and personal choices. [00:36:00] Honestly, like, that is one of the things I see that damages couples a lot, right? Is people who, And, you know, again, women, women do it too, but if we're speaking specifically to men here, that they're coming into the relationship because they've let something in that has damaged the relationship, whether it's a flirtation with another person, whether it's an addiction, whether it's a negative habit that like, if they're, you know, again, if this, you know, man, as the protectors, we keep the wolves away.

It's like, there are too many men that are unaware of like, Oh shoot, I, I'm the one that actually let the wolf into the house. Um, but I, but they don't know how to protect from those wolves because they're different now, right? Um, and so I think that's something to just talk about. It's not the literal wolf door.

It might be the thing That's coming through the internet. That's really the issue Crystal I want to start talking about your book [00:37:00] and getting to that because you've shared so much incredible information in there But before there I I got to get your opinion because there's this ridiculous thing Going on on the internet With man versus bear women on social media.

Have you seen this? It's one of the most absurd things I've ever seen. What is your take on this? So I think this is one of those, it's one of those kind of thought experiments that it's not to be taken literally. Um, but I think it speaks to the,

I think it speaks to a couple of different things. Yes. So I've seen it and I've seen a lot of discourse around it. Um, it's, Which I've seen, I think the more interesting ones have been [00:38:00] the men's responses to this, right? Um, because in a perfect world, for example, if your daughter is hiking in the woods, right?

Um, and she's alone, that any man she comes across would be preferable to a bear. Unfortunately, that's not always the case, right? Um, and so I think that's where, yeah, you know, like, which one would you take in a ring? I mean, Come on. Um in a literal sense like it's an absurd comparison, but I think in that more um, like broad societal commentary sense as a thought experiment, um, I think it does I think it is an interesting um, it brings up an interesting point of how How difficult sometimes it is to answer that question if [00:39:00] it's in a if it's a personal uh personal scenario Yeah Right?

Because it is, it is so personal, right? It's like, which man are we talking about? Are we talking about Charles Manson that you run across in the woods? Are you talking about your next door neighbor? Are you talking about a complete stranger? Are you talking about, you know? Whereas the bear is like, is it, is it a grizzly or is it a black bear?

Well, here, we have a script. Um, and I think that's the more complicated piece of it, is when you run into another human, Unfortunately, we don't have that like, oh yeah, most humans are good. They're going to treat you well. They're going to look out for you. Like finding another human on the road, which again, this goes even back to, like way back in the day.

I mean, I watch, my husband loves Westerns and all of that. It's like when you saw another band of humans, the first thing you didn't do was walk up and be like, Hey neighbor, because they would probably murder you and steal all your stuff. Right. And so I think this does speak to the, like, are we as a human society connected?

Yeah. And we look out for each other or are we kind of like [00:40:00] wary because humans are not always great? And if yeah, so That's that's what comes up for me when I think when I think it's just been incredibly so I i'm very against the concept of toxic masculinity because And I actually had somebody criticize this on a post.

I had that the other day from one of my former guests uh saying the toxic masculinity doesn't exist because It's a broad generalization the way it gets thrown around, right? Everybody can have toxic traits, but this blanket toxic masculinity thing is saying that every male is automatically judged based on the worst of society.

And it, this throws back my brain to that. It's like, this is on the broad assumption, [00:41:00] the way I've seen women react to this, that the majority of men in the world are bad. And largely, I think if that was the case, the society would look highly, highly different. Women wouldn't be complaining about this on the internet.

They'd be cowering in their homes and in places if men were that bad in general. Sure. And I will say that's probably not like that's not in some societies. That's definitely still the case. Yeah. Right? And there are not like, it's not that far back many generations where women were in that situation. And so I think that's what, yeah, we're in that transitional period of society where are we moving forward, supporting each other together, or are we just going to repeat?

The patterns of the past. Okay. I just, I had it. It was totally random off, but [00:42:00] I want to get a woman's opinion on this. Just since we're talking about men and women in this case, I wanted to get a woman's opinion on this. Now, Crystal, you wrote this book and, uh, for full disclosure, I had to look up TLDR. I think I've seen it before, but I've never actually like, I had no idea what it meant.

So I literally had to like stop and look up because you have these great high points at the end of your chapters where you're like. TLDR, here's what you really need to hear out of this chapter, and thank you for that, for those of us who have really short attention spans, because you get pretty deep in parts of the book where, like, it's like, uh, I can see men tuning out right here, right?

We're, uh, we're onto the technical or the long explanation, and not all of us have that great of attention spans, uh, so I love the fact that you put those in your chapters, and guys, like I said, Strong will be up on my bookshelf on my website, as well, for ever, you'll be able to find it there. [00:43:00] As well as we'll have links below.

This was a phenomenal book. Like you, there is so much valuable information in this book. So once again, well done. This like I I've started writing a book. I know how much work it is to write a book, but to write with this much quality information, this was, this was really well done. Um, what, what took you from practice to I'm going to write a book?

You know, I guess kind of one of the things, um, is

when I would see couples come into therapy, what I found, and I know I put this in the book, but I want to emphasize it again, is there are a lot of resources directed towards women to help them get the skills to have better relationships with themselves and with others. Um, there isn't, there hasn't been, I think that's getting better, [00:44:00] but there hasn't been that same wealth of resources directed to men.

So often when I would see a couple already there felt like there was an imbalance in the room because the woman would be talking about like, maybe she had gone to therapy for a couple of years or she had been already doing some research. And so she'd be talking about like love languages, attachment styles, you know, the biology of trauma, um, the impact of, you know, the childhood.

And he would be sitting there like, none of this is relevant to what's happening in our relationship. What are you talking about? You know, we have financial stuff or we were arguing about your mom. Um, And so really after a while, I was like, look, let's get you on the same page so that when you come in, you at least have like, that's why I tried to pass so much into this.

I'm like, you know, so at least you're now familiar with the terms, you understand what, what they're being used for. Um, so that it can, you can feel a little bit more empowered walking into that room. And then also, um, [00:45:00] You know, one of the things that I struggled with when I was becoming a couples therapist is like, who sets the bar?

Like, who gets to say what's a good relationship and what's not, right? Because everybody has their own unique setup. Um, and You know, for a long time, it was maybe the religious, like Christian or any other religious, like religious communities tend to have pretty defined roles for husbands and wives. Um, but not everybody is that way anymore.

Right. And that role, you know, it works if you're adhering to a specific faith, but cause you also have a community of people who continue to reinforce that. But the most like average modern couple, they're not super religious like that. And they might not be super religious. interested in that kind of setup either.

So, how do we define health if it's not, you know, like, who gets to set that bar? And so that was part of this book as well, was, you know, can I, can I look through all the research and find the most, kind of, [00:46:00] science based, research backed pillars of what a healthy relationship are, um, so that it could be applicable to anybody of any, you know, whatever, whatever, um, background you come from.

Uh, you can, you can apply it to your life now, guys, we wouldn't, we're starting on to, uh, the book strong, but, you know, we, we've talked about the status of things and there are probably some of you right now listening, going, yup, yeah, yeah, uh, relationships are pretty complicated at best at this point.

Crystal's put together a book and strong as an acronym. I'm always amazed by people who can do acronyms cause I suck at building acronyms. I keep trying to think of clever acronyms for things I'm doing. It's like this, I've never been able to put together a good acronym, but you did. And strong as an acronym for a [00:47:00] framework she has built.

To help you outline what it takes to build a strong relationship these days. Now, this applies to you, whether you are currently married in a committed relationship or dating or just starting to date or getting ready to have relationships in the future. It also will apply to your regular relationships.

This can apply to friendships as well. So in this part of the show, we're going to dive into her strong relationship framework. Uh, I'm going to let Crystal talk a whole lot more than during this because I can sit here and like poke and prod and be like, what's next? And what's next? And that just sounds stupid.

And you guys don't want to hear me talk about that. You want to hear her talk about her framework. So I'm going to sit back a little bit in this part of the show and Crystal, I'm going to let you walk us through your strong framework and break that down for us. Guys, this is the cliff notes. I will tell you, you're not going to get the whole book in this show.

We don't have [00:48:00] that long. I did also get a copy of the audio book because I like to listen to books when I'm working And uh, it's a 10 hour audio book. So we're not getting the full length in here. This is the cliff notes I encourage you guys If you hear what she's saying is resonating and you're looking for Something that you can put in your hand tangibly and learn how to build a stronger relationship Guys, this is a great book.

Really like this is going into my toolbox for working with men Uh, and so crystal You Take us through your Strong Relationship Framework. Help us out here. Awesome. Thank you. So yeah, I really wanted to, and I love acronyms. I might not be great at trivia, but I can do an acronym. But luckily this worked out for me because as a trauma informed therapist, so that was one of the things when I became a therapist, I wanted to work with people who have experienced trauma.

Um, I got trained in PTSD. And one of the [00:49:00] absolute foundation of any healthy relationship is safety. And so that's the S of strong. And that is the thing that I noticed in a lot of, you know, therapy models when it comes to couples therapy. They usually start at T, which is trust. So STRONG, I'm just going to overview the acronym.

These are the six pillars of what I think is a healthy relationship. STRONG is healthy. Um, Safety, Trust, Respect, Openness, Nurturing, and Generosity. So, I also wanted to make sure that, you know, again, it's a word that everybody can spell. It's very strength based. It's, it's also kind of, in a way, maybe masculine, right?

It's like embodying strength is a really attractive quality, um, in a man. Thank you. And so strong, healthy relationships have these six elements. They have safety or people feel safe to be themselves. They co create safety in their relationship. They trust each other. They also are each [00:50:00] trustworthy.

There's respect, there's mutual respect, and then people have self respect in the way they comport themselves. There's openness, right? The understanding that people are going to change throughout their lives and the openness allows the relationship to continue to grow as the people in it do. Again, if you're going to have a family, if you're going to create a legacy together, there has to be a mutual investment in nurturing the relationship and the bond that you have.

Nurturing the children, nurturing, whatever it is that you're hoping to build together. And then generosity, which is like, I say, like the fairy dust of the relationship. It's that little extra magic of like, you know, the spark, what keeps the spark alive is people giving, um, of themselves, just that tiny bit more, um, to make the relationship extra special.

This is kind of the pillars of a healthy relationship. And the way I break it down in practice, and then also kind of in the book, is if you are kind of at [00:51:00] relationship state zero, where you're like, maybe I really love, I want to be in a relationship, I love love, but I noticed I just can never quite get a healthy relationship off the ground.

Um, We've got to start with the first S T R, right, starting with building safety, and I break safety down into four skills of safety. Number one is self awareness, kind of like what we were talking about earlier in the show is like, do you actually want to be in a relationship at this point? Do you, like, is this the right time?

And having that self awareness that if it's not the right time, you're not going to show up as your best self, and that's fine, but don't half ass it, you know, like this is one of the most important investments of your entire life. Right, you can work on your business degree, you can work on building a, you know, practice, whatever.

Um, but the person you choose to spend your life with and have children with, like, that's, that's pretty crucial, right? Um, anyways, and there's like lots of, lots of studies around [00:52:00] that. So you better be really clear on what you're looking for and who you're looking for, starting with knowing what you're bringing into the relationship.

And I talk about how there's really only two types of relationships. The ones that are based on deep connection are the ones that kind of fumble through on function, right? And function based relationships are the ones that are more transactional, where it's like, I just want, I just want to be married to a hot girl.

It's like, cool, if that's all you want, like, sure, I guess. But then don't be surprised when that's all she brings to the table, you know? Um, but if you're really looking for a deep, intimate connection that's fulfilling that will last you for your whole life, also be self aware if you actually have those skills to make that happen, right?

So that's self awareness. Um, the second, which is the skills for stability, um, which I, I, I know I've heard you talk about it in podcasts before of like just basic life skills. Like, I cannot tell you how many women, you know, in, like, [00:53:00] mom blogs and mom books talk about how, like, when they learned to become a parent, their husband didn't keep up the same skill level, right?

So, like, you know, he didn't continue to learn, like, how to feed a bottle or, you know, uh, what was that, uh, was it the football player recently that just had that, um, little viral TikTok? About if you're not parenting, you're babysitting and he's like, if you have to ask the same questions of your wife that a babysitter would ask, you're not really being a parent, right?

If your babysitter has to ask you, how many ounces does the baby take? And you have to ask your wife, you're slacking because you don't have those same skills of stability to maintain your home as your wife does. Right? If your, if your house cleaners has to ask, like, where do you, where do you keep the windex?

And you have to ask your wife again, like you're not keeping up with maintaining the household. So basic life stability skills are really important. Um, because that [00:54:00] again comes to partnership. Um, and then the last two are really those communication and conflict skills when it comes to safety. Do you know how to regulate your body when you're upset?

Do you know how to have conflict in a safe way? And do you have the language to talk about your emotions? Because again, if you don't have those things, which, you know, most of us did not get that download like we talked about, or we didn't necessarily have it modeled by healthy parents. Um, you got to have those skills under your belt if you're going to have a safe, healthy relationship.

Otherwise, that's kind of what I see is people that are otherwise high functioning, healthy adults in the world, they get into relationships and, you know, dangerous. have conversations that end up in conflict because they don't know how to have a high stakes conversation in a safe way, right? So they just end up screaming at each other and nobody likes that.

Um, so that's safety. Once we get that out of the way, um, then we can start to build trust, right? Because like I talk about as human beings, as, you know, [00:55:00] mammals, um, we, you cannot build trust with someone you don't feel safe with. And so often I see when couples come in and they're like having trouble like trusting each other or getting on the same page and I look back at their skills for safety, often that's where the cracks are, right?

So getting skilled with being a safe person by having those skills under your belt, self awareness, stability, self, uh, self regulation, self expression will enable you to be a trustworthy person and build trust with your partner. And that's where in the book I talk about attachment styles. How learning to trust is something that, um, you know, we start with as children, learning the trustworthiness of the people around us, right?

If you grew up with a parent that was like, yeah, yeah, sure, I'll pick you up at, you know, after the game, and then they never show up, or they continue to let you down in certain ways, um, you will start to learn that people are untrustworthy. And as much as we want to say like, no, no, no, you should enter into a relationship with a clean [00:56:00] slate and a fresh heart.

Thank you. Yeah, it's just not, you know, how humans work, you know, we, our brains are giant pattern seeking machines. We look for patterns until we find something that breaks that pattern. And so that's really what I always want to emphasize when it comes to trust building is you might be entering into a relationship not fully trusting and that's okay because your partner has to then earn it and then you have to give them opportunities to earn it.

And that's where trust can get built in your couple. Doesn't mean you have to then be a trusting person to everybody, but in your couple, do you know how to build trust with each other? And then respect. Can I keep going? Oh yeah, you can, I, I told you I can, I can poke and prod. I'll, I'll ask questions afterwards, but I figured I could poke and prod and like lead you, but this is your framework and that's just kind of dumb to me.

Um, so respect, that's one that of course, you know, [00:57:00] it needs to be present in a healthy relationship, but too many people, and especially men, um, what I saw and I use a little, um, Story in there to kind of illustrate it, but demanding versus commanding respect. So demanding is kind of throwing your weight around of like, because I'm bigger than you, because I said so, um, which also again, as a parenting style doesn't work either.

And it definitely doesn't work in an intimate relationship where your wife is like, well, you're not the boss of me. What are you doing? Um, but again, that deep craving for respect is so, is so natural. It's so human. It's so needed. But being able to be a person who commands respect because you have integrity, because you are a person of character, because you are able to have alignment between your values and your actions.

And if you have self respect, then that has a ripple effect to the people around you. Right? But if you look in the mirror and you're like, I kind of hate that guy. And then, you know, you go and try to [00:58:00] demand that other people respect you. And again, we see this very clearly with children, right? Where they're like, you're a hypocrite.

Like, we're not going to respect you. You don't deserve it. Right? And then there's conflict there. Right? So, respect is something that's so important in a healthy relationship, but knowing that it comes from internal self respect to then build mutual respect. Nobody likes the guy that throws his weight around.

So, the STR portion of the relationship is, like, the absolute foundation. So when I work with couples that are in crisis or they're struggling, um, usually STR, I mean, that's like the triage portion of the relationship. If your relationship doesn't have safety, trust, and respect, it will not survive. That's, I mean, you will not be happy.

There will be mental health, uh, and emotional health, uh, costs to being in a relationship that doesn't have safety, trust, and respect. Right. That's not a good place to be. Um, but once we [00:59:00] get that out of the way, and I do have couples that come in, like you said, with you and your wife that are proactive, they're like, yep, we've, we've done the hard work, you know, it's been years, we've worked on our safety, we have a lot of trust, we respect each other immensely.

We're looking for that next level. Right. And so I kind of divide the model into survival versus thriving. Right. So, the surviving piece is the STR, the thriving piece. Right. Is the openness, nurturing and generosity, which openness, I cover a lot of communication, kind of tactical skills in the book of Ike.

There are four positions of conversation. Do you know what they are? Right. If your partner is looking to vent, are you able to sit there and be open and listen to them then without jumping to offering a solution? Um, and then also being curious about who your partner is. This is something I see.

Unfortunately with couples is, you know, they say I do, and then they go about their separate ways and then they look up in 10 years and they're like, Oh, I have no idea who that [01:00:00] person is. I don't know what they like. I don't know what they don't like. I just know that they're kind of annoying. And then they put their heads back down and then, 15 years later they look up and the kids are gone and they're like, oh I don't know anything about you and I don't want to because like I could just start over and this feels like I've been living with a stranger for many years and so that's where I want to avoid those kinds of, um, like the growing apart and I talk about it's like the black mold in a relationship.

It might not be as obvious as like a wrecking ball of an affair but growing apart. And there's this great book that came out a little while ago called Grey Divorce, and I do reference that in this book is that there are too many people who got married and maybe they had a passionate connection when they were younger, but they failed to keep that openness and continue to nurture their emotional connection, which is, which is that end, um, that then they, you know, they get to retirement age and they don't have anything that connects them.[01:01:00]

Um, accept their children and so there's a rise in in people over 50 who are getting divorced because simply they You know sure they had 30 years together But you know if they've got 30 years left do they want to spend it with this person? um, and that's sad to me right because I really think that marriage can be a beautiful thing if it's if it's maintained, um, and nurtured, right?

Which is the end. Nurturing, um, encouraging men to be present fathers, not just procreators, is really important. Having the skills to nurture, Um, The teaching and raising of your children, the nurturing of your own, your own self, um, too many men I see neglect themselves to service their families and then again, they wake up and they're like, this marriage has taken everything from me.

I've got nothing left. My health is destroyed. My, you know, my body is destroyed and like, They have no concept of self because everything's been given away. It's like, no, you also have to [01:02:00] nurture yourself in order to be that person that your kids then want to learn from, right? Um, so nurturing that is super important.

Nurturing your friend groups, nurturing your, your men's groups, your mentorships, um, staying connected to a community. Again, that's, you know, a whole different conversation about the importance of that when it comes to men's mental health is nurturing those connections. And then the G for generosity is that kind of like, like I said, the fairy dust of the relationship if it comes to a choice point, um, and not just for yourself, right?

And so this is part of this book is not just here, man, here's what you need to do, but also just a guide of like, if you're looking for a partner, and you have all these things, at the end of the day, when there's a choice point, do you trust that they will generously choose you? Right, because you would generously choose them and that's kind of the beauty of that relationship that builds on itself Is that you know?

I'm looking for ways to make my husband's life a little bit better and he's looking for ways to make my life [01:03:00] a little bit better right and I think that's that little, that little extra, right? That you come home and your partner's like, Hey, I know you like blank, blank. So I brought it home for you. And you're like, what?

That's nice. Right. And I'm like, well, I know you're like, whatever. So I went ahead and got you that it's like, what, you know? And again, it doesn't have to be like big, generous financial gifts. It could simply be like, Hey, I got that, you know, um, Let's go sit on the porch and watch the sunset, right? Or, uh, whatever it is, but that little bit of generosity of like, I want to make your life better.

How can I make you smile today? You know? So anyway, that's what I got. Am I making it awkward by not talking? I'm sorry. Thank you for letting me go. And now I would like to pause. I, I, I go back and forth through the way I do things, but you have this Amazing framework outlined and I have lots of questions like we could do two more shows probably um, [01:04:00] but It feels like it feels disingenuous to me when i'm like and and what does the t stand for crystal?

Now on to the r That just feels dumb. It does it feels dumb. So I uh, Wanted to let you go through your framework since you developed it without interruption And I do have some questions I think Let you get them all out because nobody wants to hear me say it anyway. Uh, I love that you've got this split because, you know, I, I can, I can see after, especially reading the book, it's like, this makes sense, right?

This, this totally makes sense. This is foundational survival. This is the bare minimal for us to actually make it. Uh, and. I, I thought chapter one was getting a little long and then you broke it into like four segments. I was like, Oh, okay. That's [01:05:00] like chapter one, a, one B, one C, one D to get through. So I was like, okay.

Um, but it's things that we don't think about. That's, I can see where men get lost in that first part, right? Cause we're not taught to do those things. You're basically told, okay, you're done with school, go get a job, take care of your family. And we're still stuck in that. Like I said, that triple P model and we're not told, Hey, you have to, you have to be solid in who you are and what skills you bring and there are more skills than just, uh, you know, there, there are more skills than this showing up,

so I was checking my producer, uh, but we're not taught those [01:06:00] skills. . Right. That's, it's one of the things I try and talk about on our show fairly regularly is, you know, do you have these base skills? Do how, how do you see yourself? Yeah. And so I love that you took time in the book to start there. Mm-Hmm.

in this non-US area. And I, I really, I hope that. You know, I tried to make this book as accessible as possible, as bite sized as possible, as applicable as possible because I really, um, you know, I do think that it's kind of unfair that men are set up for this, right? It's like, go out and keep your family safe.

And so they go out and they do the best they can, but Then it's like learning the hard way, right? Like you figure out when it's wrong, when your wife is like you're doing everything wrong and I would like to leave you now. Right. And so it's like, that's really not like, that's not [01:07:00] a formula for success and by any metric.

Right. And so this is part of where I'm like, you know, if you are a man who wants to keep your family safe, here are some tools as to how. Sure, you can get a home security system, you can get really fit, you can, you know, get whatever protection, um, tools you need. Um, but when it comes to that emotional place of safety in the relationship, the intangibles, that's the part I wanted to highlight of like, these are also skills that you can learn.

It's not woo woo magic. It's not something that only women have. Like, these are totally like human level skills. You just need to know what they are and learn them. I got into a whole social media fight once on Instagram because I did a post with like 10 skills every man should have. And I had someone completely just go off on me about why should men have that?

Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Why shouldn't everybody have that? It's like, well, they should. But if you look, [01:08:00] my audience is male. I talked to guys and they were like, Oh, I think everybody should have these skills, but

I love openness, right? This, this is an area that we don't talk about. is you're not the same person five years, 10 years, 15 years, 20 years into a relationship that you were when you started. And I've seen so many people struggle with not either, not growing themselves, right there. They're still that same person.

Their partner's not

yeah, and that's again where I mean openness and change Is kind of a fundamental quality when it comes to nature right It's like Change is [01:09:00] going to happen whether you like it or not and you actually have to work kind of hard to resist change um, and so again adopting that open mindset is It's just really important just for yourself in life, right, because change is going to happen and being open to it and adapting it to a way that works for you is going to be really important.

And then having that ability to have that have those conversations with your partner. So you can talk about, you know, how each of you are changing how that's impacting the connection between the two of you. So, um, I mean, that's just, I mean, Literally one of the best parts of a relationship because I've also heard from you know Lots of men who are in relationships where they're like I've changed completely internally, but I'm afraid to tell anybody I'm afraid to tell my partner That I'm you know not happy with this job anymore, or I'm not happy with you know living where we live Or it's something simple right But they feel so much pressure, like, [01:10:00] well, but we need our job, you know, financially we depend on my job, so I can't tell her that I'm not happy.

I'm like, you know, if your partner cares about you as a human being, you guys will figure that out together, right? And so that's also the other piece. It's like, do you believe that your partner wants to know who you are? I think that's also really important is there has to be that safety in order to be open.

We don't like changes. It's so funny to me. Like as human beings, a lot of us don't like change men, men, a little more so than women, even bit as human beings, we're generally resistant to change. And it's really funny because like is the most constant thing in existence, but it's like, no, I don't. I, I'm, I'm, I am bad.

Like I, I will admit I got to, I'm kicking and screaming the whole way. My wife can tell you what I eat at every restaurant we go to, because I eat the same thing at the same restaurant every time. Yeah. [01:11:00] And that's not necessarily a bad thing. Right. But like, so there's this quote by Brene Brown, who is also another, like, uh, I mean, whatever, not even putting myself in the same category, but she is fantastic.

She's an author and she's a mental health professional, but anyway, she has a saying where basically she's like, you know, at the end of the day, you do life or life does you. So, you know, kind of that thing, like either you master embracing change and openness, openness. Or change is going to happen to you and you're going to be kicking and screaming.

And again, like you don't have to be open about everything, right? You don't have to be, what's that thing? You don't have to be so open. Your brains fall out, right? You don't have to go into every restaurant. Like, well, I've never been here before. What should I get? But knowing again, like. That you can face change more of that resilience mindset of like I have the skill set to rise to this new challenge I'm in the restaurant and they're out of my thing.

I got this, right? Right. No, no, that's too much for me. [01:12:00] I'm gonna use that quote. I love that It's you don't have to be so open your brains fall out. I gotta like I'm gonna frame that somewhere. That's that's awesome Crystal,

other than buying the book, you guys, honest, honest to goodness. I really, my wife and I, I grew up going to seminars. I got up going to classes. I've grown up with a face faith based marriage is focused. You do, you put into it, you put into it. I mean, we spent thousands of dollars and went on a four day, three night, two houseboats marriage retreat with 10 other couples, right?

I mean, this, this has always been a priority for us and we do do stuff every year. Guys, this is a great book. You really, really, really need to look into it. It is available on audio book. That is your voice, right? Crystal. No, no, it's not. I hired someone to do it, but I really wanted to make, because I wanted to make sure that the [01:13:00] audio book was, um, like available because I also know a lot of men, you know, rather listen than reading.

So meeting audio books changed my life. Like I, I, I avoided audio book for years. I was way late to the bandwagon. The first time I got an audio book, I was like, Oh, what have I been missing? I can listen to it in the car. I can listen to it when I'm walking. I can listen to it when I'm working. Oh man. The, no, I just, the author said this person you got to do.

It sounds a lot like you listen to some clips on your social media. Before I listened to the book on the audio book, it was like. She voiced that it's not perfect, but it's pretty close. Well, thank you. Yeah. We worked really well together. And so she was absolutely lovely. So, so aside from getting the book, which likes that guys, you absolutely should do that.

What are the first three steps our [01:14:00] listeners can implement right now? If they're going, I'm not sure my relationships where I'm at is going the way I want it, or I'm not really sure I'm in a good place. Give us three steps, places to start. Um, so I would say just start by investing in yourself, take care of your health, right, join the gym, find a men's group, um, start, start investing in yourself because you can't pour, I don't put it in the book, but you can't pour from an empty cup.

So start with you start treating yourself as something valuable. Because once you can do that, then you can invest. Fully into your relationship. So that's what I would say. I mean, this is not three steps, but like take care of your health, take care of your community so you can take care of your family.

Well, you, for, for some of us, that's, that is three steps. Just that take care of yourself portion. Yeah. I know a lot of [01:15:00] men who, that's the first thing you go out the window and I'll be the first to admit, that's the first thing life gets busy. I get focused on stuff that self care. I'm just starting to work out again after almost six months off.

Because I've been so heads down focused like I know I feel better when I work out. I know I feel better when I eat better. I know I show up better when I'm taking care of myself. But that self care is one of the first things to go for men. Yeah, and again, it's that basic like are you eating well? Are you sleeping well?

Are you moving your body? And then do you have a community of people who care about you, right? So again, it doesn't even, you don't even have to be in a relationship, a romantic relationship right now, but do you have a community of people who you know care about you as a human, not just what you provide?

Um, and, and having those things is absolutely essential to men's mental health. Absolutely. What is next for Crystal DeSantis? Ooh, I'm actually, well, [01:16:00] um, I'm going to be, so I was running a group practice where I had a bunch of clinicians working for me. I've ended up closing that and I'm going to be focusing on running couples retreats.

Um, possibly with my husband as well. We're still figuring out the details cause he has a, he has a different job. Um, but yeah, I, I found a lot of power in, you know, having more intensives with couples, longer sessions, um, going a little bit deeper. And because what I've noticed is that the people that are doing marriage well, doing relationships well, are the people that are actively investing in them.

So I want to be able to meet those people where they're at. Um, you know, one of the things is I'm only licensed in Texas to do therapy, but I've, since this book, I've been getting calls and stuff from people all over, um, actually all over the world. And so, um, I would like to be able to meet that need by offering some women's retreats.

My husband potentially doing men's [01:17:00] retreats and then doing couples retreats so we can make sure everybody's got what they need to be strong. Well, so you can share advice in a retreat that you're charging people to be at the retreat. You're not doing therapy sessions. Sharing advice among a group of people.

Yeah.

I love it. That's awesome. Congratulations. I love that you're moving in that direction. I love, I do a men's conference and it's one of my favorite points of the year. Like it's a, it's a whirlwind getting ready for it, but I actually doing the events and the impact of that in person is just so, so incredible.

So congratulations on that. That's going to be exciting. You're going to have to share that out. When you get those lined up, yeah, where's the best place to people for people to connect with you? Um, right now it's probably on Instagram, on ATX therapist, [01:18:00] because I'm, you know, I have a website strong. love, but right now it's, um, kind of undergoing some changes, but so Instagram right now, it's probably the best.

And of course we'll have crystals, uh, connection points for you guys down in the show notes description, whatever platform you're joining us on for this episode. Now, I know. You're really concerned about who Taylor Swift made that song about. You guessed Jake Gyllenhaal. You're right. So, your trivia skills are not in doubt.

You said you're pretty decent at trivia. Hey, you won. Like, I, I couldn't have told you what that was. Like, she's got a string of bad relationships. That girl needs more relationship counseling than I think you could offer. Well, you know, it's out there for anyone to have, if they need it. She's, she's the epitome of bad choices in relationships.

Um, she cannot seem to maybe it's a Hollywood thing. Who knows? [01:19:00] There's a new man in her life that. Seems pretty solid. Well, we'll see. Fingers crossed. I hope so. You know, I'm not, I'm not a big Taylor Swift fan, but I do wish her all the joy in the world. I hope she finds a solid relationship. I hope that for most people.

So yeah, Crystal, we've, we've kind of strolled through a lot today. There's a lot of very valuable insights and information you've shared today. And guys, I really hope, please share this with somebody who needs it. If our audience heard nothing else today, what do you want to leave them with?

Love takes work. Um, having a love story that becomes a life story is not magic. It's hard work. It's dedication. So don't, don't believe the fairy tale that, you [01:20:00] know, you fall in love and the end happily ever after love takes work.

Guys, for Crystal and myself, thanks for hanging out with us today. Be sure and check out down in the description, connect with Crystal. And thanks for hanging out, man. I just, I love hanging out with my people. Guys, you're going to get so much out of this. I swear. Just dig in, dig into your relationship.

Crystal has given you so much value. Thank you, Crystal, for being here with us today. Always be better tomorrow because what you do today, and we'll see you on the next one.

This has been the fellow man podcast. You're home for everything man, husband, and father. Be sure to subscribe so you don't miss a show. Head over to www. TheFallibleMan. com for more content and get your own Fallible Man [01:21:00] gear.