The Number ONE Fear | Why YOU Should and How to Overcome Glossophobia with Brenden Kumarasamy

[00:00:00] Brenden Kumarasamy: How would your life change if you became an exceptional communicator? You know, the biggest problem I have with this industry is exactly what you talked about in the beginning of the episode around glossophobia, right? The fear of communication. Those who don't know, that's just a medical term for fear, and it's always around stress and anxiety, and that's the problem.

[00:00:20] That. That right there is the problem with our industry, Brent, where a lot of the thought leadership is always focused on fear. Fear, this anxiety, this stress that we're not gonna get better that way. So for me, the question now becomes in the same way that we dream a better businesses about our careers, about our health, about our relationships, about the material things we wanna buy a house, a car, a.

[00:00:49] How can we dream about our communication skills? How do we dream about a life in which, wait a second. If I did these three exercises, even if it's alone in my basement it with nobody else watching me, how would it change my life? And the people,

[00:01:08] David Dowlen: here's the million dollar question. How do men like us reach our full potential? Grow into the men we dream of being while taking care of our responsi. Working, being good husbands, fathers, and still take care of ourselves. Well, that's the big question In this podcast, we'll help you answer those questions and more.

[00:01:28] My name is Brent and welcome to the Album Man podcast. Mission. Welcome to the Fallible Man Podcast. You're home for all things, man, husband, and father. Big shout out to Fallible Nation. You guys make this all possible and a warm welcome to our first time listeners. Would you believe it if I told you that the number one fear for people is actually called glossophobia?

[00:01:48] And it's the fear of public speaking, not just on stage, but actually being singled out in a, where there's any kind of crowd watching you and observing, like in a team meeting or a social group. The group Toastmaster that teaches people how to speak often joke about people fear public speaking more than death.

[00:02:06] So just imagine at the next funeral you attend that the guy giving the ul you the eulogy. If I can say that word, would rather be in the coffin than giving the eulogy. My name is Brent and State. My special guest is Communication Coach and YouTuber Brennan from Master Talk. And today we hope to help you take the first steps into overcoming that fear so that you can be the best version of yourself.

[00:02:26] Brennan, welcome to the.

[00:02:28] Brenden Kumarasamy: Hey, it's great to be on Bryn. Thanks for having me on.

[00:02:31] David Dowlen: Now, Brennan, I don't do huge introductions on my guests because that just doesn't tell people who you are. So, in your own words, who is Brennan?

[00:02:41] Brenden Kumarasamy: Yeah, for sure. It's great to be here. So I would say for me, the, the story started Brent, when I was in college, I was a university and business school.

[00:02:48] And that's where I learned communication. But the goal for me wasn't to be a speaker or a YouTuber, an entrepreneur. Michael was actually to be an accountant. That's what I studied. And funny enough, so that's what I did my studies in. But I competed in these things called taste competitions. Think of it like professional sports, but for nerds.

[00:03:07] So while other guys my age were playing basketball or rugby or baseball, I wasn't one of those. I did presentations competitively, and that's how I learned how to speak. But then as I got older, Brent, I started coaching a lot of the students on how to communicate ideas effectively, and I accidentally got good at coaching it, and that gave me the idea for the YouTube channel Master Talk because I felt that everything that I was sharing with them wasn't really available for free on the internet.

[00:03:38] So I just started making videos and then a few years later turned to something I never could have imagined.

[00:03:43] David Dowlen: All right. Well then, you know, this is, this should be an easy softball question. Start out, if you could have a conversation with one person in history, past, present, or future living or dead, who would it be and why?

[00:03:55] Brenden Kumarasamy: I would've a conversation with Peter Teal, who's the author of the book Zero to One, and, and he's the founder of both PayPal and Palantier. I think the guy's an exceptional thought leader, and he's what we call him, the thought leadership industry as a contrarian. Somebody who. Always zags when everyone zigs.

[00:04:12] And he has this great question in his book, which is, what is the truth that you believe in that most people disagree with you on? So what's something you believe to be true about the world that most people think is wrong? And I think that's a really fascinating question. So I would love to have dinner with him to get his other list of questions.

[00:04:27] That's actually the, the whole point of the dinner. He's just really hard to get.

[00:04:31] David Dowlen: The dude is rather incredible. I assume he is a nightmare to try and get in front of. Uh, you get, you get to that level and man, getting in front of those people is really, really complex. Now, were you afraid of public speaking or when you started, or did it come naturally as you were doing these?

[00:04:49] Uh, I love the nerd competition. That that's hilarious. But were you a natural speaking or, or did you have issues with speaking to start?

[00:04:58] Brenden Kumarasamy: I am pretty sure I was a natural, but I didn't believe I was for most of my life. So what does that mean? So I grew up in Montreal and Canada, Brent, which is a city for those who don't know where you need to, not to speak French, which is language I didn't know.

[00:05:12] So my whole life, not only did I struggle with communication, I was presenting in a language I didn't even know. So I'd look at the crowd and go, uh, Bonjour. That was my life. The second thing is, for those who don't know, I have a crooked left arm. And the reason is cuz of a surgery I had when I was younger.

[00:05:30] So I have a lot of social anxiety in the past, whenever I'd get up in a classroom cuz people would notice that my left arm isn't straight. And it always bothered me when I would share ideas. And then the third piece is you would think that a guy who studied in, you know, in communications, a guy who was in a communication expert studied in the same thing.

[00:05:48] Yeah. Graduated the bachelor's in. So I pretty much had every strike against me. So yes, I was fearful for most of it and then I learned later.

[00:05:57] David Dowlen: Okay, so you had your own growth through this, so you're not just coaching people on it as a good speaker. That's I cuz I had to ask Right. I'm very comfortable speaking in front of people, but I grew up doing it and so I, I was curious where, where that story started for you.

[00:06:14] It's one of those things when someone who's never struggled with it says, oh yeah, this, like, I would never tell somebody public speaking is easy because I've been doing it such, so much in my life that it's always just been part of my life. Like I started speaking in front of crowds of up to 200 people at 11 years old, so Wow.

[00:06:32] It's just my, my father was a minister and I was expected to be up front. So I kind of fell into it. So I wouldn't tell somebody that because I've never had that fear. But coming from someone who actually struggled with it, that, that's awesome because you can identify with your clients really well and that's very

[00:06:50] Brenden Kumarasamy: cool.

[00:06:51] You got it. I think that's why I'm so passionate about this. It's like, well, if, if this kid like literally went from being scared of communication to coachings, one of the biggest CEOs in the world. I'm sure everybody on Earth can be a great speaker. It's just the problem, Brent, is there's no structure, there's no framework on how to approach it.

[00:07:09] So I brought that into the industry and, and it's gotten good results so far.

[00:07:14] David Dowlen: So, Brenda, why do you think people struggle so much? I mean, it, it is funny doing the research for the show because public speaking rings up up there above death, above spiders and spiders are just pure evil anyway. But you know, it ranks way above these things that people calmly think.

[00:07:30] Why are, why are people afraid of public speaking?

[00:07:32] Brenden Kumarasamy: I've asked myself this question for many years, Brent, and I think I have a good explanation. It's common sense, if you think about it. Where do we learn how to give formal presentations? The answer is the education system. High school, elementary school.

[00:07:49] That's where we learned how to speak. But there's three problems there, Brent. Number one, all of those presentations are mandatory. You don't wake up in the morning and say, Hey, Brent, you wanna get breakfast and present all day? Says, nobody ever says problem one. Problem two is none of the presentations you give in the education system or tied to a passion.

[00:08:14] So it's never, Hey Brent, what are you passionate about? Are you passionate about books, nature, adventure, podcasting, media? No. That. The ad system works, it's, yeah, you gotta give a presentation on Shakespeare and poetry and figure it out, and you're like, uh, okay. So it's not really fun either. And then number three, which is actually the worst of it all.

[00:08:34] Every presentation is tied to a punishment. So if you don't do a great job, not only do you not get a pat in the back, you get a slap in the face, you lose 25% of your grade and your dreams of being a doctor, an engineer, a scientist, go down the drain with it cuz you don't have the grades to get into the next school.

[00:08:52] So what's the punchline, Brent? The punchline is we grow up believing that communication is a chore so it becomes one and nobody wants to get better at doing the dish.

[00:09:07] David Dowlen: I have never thought about it like that, but that makes a whole lot of sense. Now, I came across this quote that you have while I was doing the research for this show, and I, and I love it, but I have questions.

[00:09:20] So the quote is, I believe the next Elon Musk is the seven year old girl who can't afford a communication coach, so is my duty to help her succeed with free resources. Where does that sense of responsibility? To the upcoming generations in the world come from?

[00:09:38] Brenden Kumarasamy: Great question. I would say for me, Brent, it didn't start that way.

[00:09:42] Let's put it there. Let's start there. So for me, when I was 12 to 22, my only focus was trying to make money. It's because I didn't have a lot of it. My parents were factory workers, so I chose to be an accountant. That was my goal. I didn't care whether I was happy doing it. I didn't think about the word passion.

[00:09:57] That didn't make sense for somebody from my family. Cause I'm the first person to graduate from my U from a university. Right. So for me it was just like, no, like let's get a great education. Let's get a great job and be done with it. I wasn't thinking about saving the world. Yeah. Until maybe three to four years ago.

[00:10:12] And then what? It is in my pursuit of finding that job and accounting or in consulting, I stumbled upon case competitions and I saw that as my ticket out of poverty. Okay. If I do case competitions, those executives will give me a job cause I was a great communicator and then I'll start making money.

[00:10:31] That was the goal. But then when I started finding success, I worked at pwc and then I worked at I B M for a few years. I realized that even if I loved the companies and the culture, I was realizing an important lesson, which is my time is actually infinitely more valuable than my money. because I don't have a lot of time.

[00:10:52] So then I, of course I invested a lot to myself, did a lot of personal growth to kind of find the truth. And I just realized that, wait a second, I should be figuring out what to do with my time, not my money. And I started asking myself the harder questions of life. And I said, what's all of this for?

[00:11:08] What's the point of all of this? And in that journey, I ended up realizing through a series of events, Being the next Dale Carnegie ended up being my new North Star, primarily because nobody on Earth was doing it. Nobody was sharing free resources with, you know, for, for the community. A lot of people in my industry, they just pitch all the time and I'm just like, wait a second.

[00:11:32] No. This is the most important skill in the world and the only knowledge we have right now is in books, right? How to win Friends and Influence people, things like that. And I said, what if I could be that? And that's what gave me the excitement for life that I was craving after I finished university and I went full swing ahead.

[00:11:50] David Dowlen: Okay. Totally, totally. Just off, off guilt, let me ask, is there a book in the future.

[00:11:56] Brenden Kumarasamy: one day. One day. I'm not ready to write it yet cuz my platform isn't big enough and I don't think I'm skilled enough either, cuz I really wanna make it really, really good. But the other piece as well that I wanna jump into, Brett, is I think the reason why I'm so passionate about that specific avatar, like the seven year old girl who can't afford a communication coach that I forgot to add on to is because I know.

[00:12:16] Right. I do a lot of pro bono work for Technication, a lot of other philanthropic endeavors, and when I'm coaching them, I see the fear in their eyes. , right? They have their red faces on, nobody's telling 'em, they give be a great speaker. They're really worried about presentations until I come in the picture and I'm like giving them high fives and I'm saying, of course you can be a great speaker.

[00:12:36] And that's what really motivated me to realize that there isn't million Brendans here. There's only me, so I need it. Like, it's not like, oh, I could no, look, I need to actually create this info, get on the podcast, do the YouTube videos, or else there will be no placeholder. There will be no poster child of somebody to follow as a role model in this field.

[00:12:55] So I figured that person should be me.

[00:12:58] David Dowlen: I absolutely love that. That's that's amazing brother, right there. I'm blown away. Uh, I'm very passionate about men stepping up as role models and mentors for younger people. And so that's, that's amazing that, that's a deep passion for you. That's incredible. So thank you.

[00:13:17] Thank you for that. I appreciate it, man. Um. So let's, let's start to get into this a little bit. Why should people step into the uncomfortable learn to communicate publicly?

[00:13:31] Brenden Kumarasamy: Right. The reason Brent is because it affects every year of her life. So for me, public speaking is not about getting on a stage.

[00:13:38] That's one part of the game. It's the way that we raise our children. It's the way that we become a better father, right? For our kids. It's the way that we make new friends. It's the way that we order food at a restaurant and make the waiter feel like they're really important, cuz everyone else in that restaurant isn't, that isn't trading them that well.

[00:13:58] That's what communication is for me. That's why I call it a, it's about fulfilling your life. But the other piece to communication is that I really believe in this idea, Brent, that communication is an accelerant of dreams. It doesn't matter what the dream is. Communication helps you get there faster.

[00:14:16] That's why I always ask people to think of these three questions. One, what do you desire in life? What do you want in life? Is it to be a father? Is it to be a better brother? Is it to be a big business owner, a podcast host? Like you write a media guy? What is the goal? That's question one, careers question two.

[00:14:36] Clarity has what you want. Who is someone that already has the goals that you want as. And then the third question that we never think to ask ourselves, red is the person that has what we want, whether it's the big business, the amazing family, the outstanding career, what kind of communicator are they and what is the gap between us and them?

[00:14:59] And when we start to really ponder on those questions, we figure. , which I believe is the real number one challenge of communication. And I don't think it's fear. I think fear is number two. I think number one is motivation. Cuz there's a lot of things in our life that we're scared of, but that we do anyways.

[00:15:16] Why? Because we're motivated enough to do it and we just don't have that motivation for comms. Okay.

[00:15:24] David Dowlen: That's, sorry, there's a lot to unpack and I'm, I'm just absorbing as you're talking, man. Uh, that's, it is. Communication is about everything. And that, that's why I try to say in the introduction as well, we're not just talking about speaking on stage guys.

[00:15:43] You, you don't ever have to speak in on stage. There's nothing wrong with that. But you need to feel comfortable enough communicating to share ideas, to talk to that person at the office are speak up in that team meeting to share with people you encountered in your. There. There are amazing things that you have off the world and you need to be able to share that.

[00:16:07] So this is so important. Now, how does being able to communicate better in public improve our lives?

[00:16:16] Brenden Kumarasamy: Absolutely. Brent, I'm glad you, you jumped in with that question cause I had that thought as well. Let me give a simple one that has nothing to do with speaking on a stage that I think every person listening can relate to.

[00:16:26] How do you communicate boundaries to the people around you? And a lot of men, especially since this podcast is focused on that demo, are terrible at this spread. Like it's horrible. So let me give you an example. There's two ways of communicating a boundary, very general, which is bad and very specific, which is much better Example, let's say I say I need more alone time.

[00:16:51] Okay. What does more alone time mean? Does that mean you wanna sleep in a cave for three weeks and I can't text you? Does that mean an hour a day to read your book? Cuz you want some alone time in the morning? Does that mean you wanna take a day off from your family on a Saturday and just be with the boys at night like, What, what does alone time mean?

[00:17:11] So this, this singular sentence, five letter, like literally sentence, idd more alone time can be misinterpreted a hundred different ways versus commuting something really specific, which is. Hey, let's say, let's say it's a significant other. Hey babe, I would love one hour in the morning to read my book because it really helps me clear my mind and show up better for our family so that we can create a better future together.

[00:17:40] Is there any way that you can work with me on this to support this goal? Notice how the way that I'm construing those words is making it way more specific, and now we're adding the why component. So your partner obviously wants to support you in the way you're coming off with your message. Such's, just an example of how that changes your life and why.

[00:18:00] I never get into any arguments with my mother or my sister.

[00:18:06] David Dowlen: You're wise beyond your years, sir Wise, beyond your years? It's

[00:18:10] Brenden Kumarasamy: out of necessity. Brad

[00:18:11] David Dowlen: Tory. Oh, I, I imagine I, my mother, my l mother lives with my wife and I, my father passed about a year and a half ago now, and my mom lives with us and helps out around the house with my kids and stuff. But my, my kids are always blown away because I still.

[00:18:29] Don't argue with my mom and I still .

[00:18:32] Brenden Kumarasamy: I feel that energy from you. You seem to be very good at

[00:18:35] David Dowlen: it for sure. And they're, they're like, you wouldn't let us get anyone else get away that, oh, it's because she's my mom and there's this, there's this boundary. I, I threw a cup towel across the room and hit her in the shoulder with it the other day.

[00:18:49] And both my kids and my wife all went like the shock in the room that I threw a towel at. Was . You don't do that to mom.

[00:19:01] Brenden Kumarasamy: I misheard that. I thought you said tiles like you threw a tile at your mom. I was like, holy towel .

[00:19:07] David Dowlen: Oh goodness. That would be bad.

[00:19:09] Brenden Kumarasamy: That makes way more sense.

[00:19:10] David Dowlen: Yeah, for sure. Guys, we've been trying to get to know Brennan a little bit and we're focused on on why you should overcome your fear of public speaking, where that comes from in the second half of the show, we're gonna get into.

[00:19:22] To practically work at overcoming the fear of public speaking or just talking in general. We're gonna roll our sponsor and we will be right back with more from Brennan. Now, before we go any further, I wanted to share with you guys, I don't always tell you how much I love doing my podcast, like I passionately love what I'm doing and one of the things that makes my life better as a podcaster is to work with a company like Grow Your Show.

[00:19:47] Grow Your show is a one-stop podcast. Do it all. Now I use Grow Your Show for my marketing, but Grow Your Show is literally a one-stop shop. You can record your episode and just drop it off with them and they take it from there. It's amazing. If you are interested in picking up podcasting, it's a hobby, or maybe you're looking to expand your business and use podcasting in that aspect, talk to my friends over Grow Your Show.

[00:20:08] Adam will take care of you. I guarantee it. I trust him. He's my friend. He's my. Colleague and I wouldn't trust anybody else with my show. And we're back guys. We're here with Brennan from Master Talk discussing how to overcome your fear of public speaking. And we're not just talking about onstage guys.

[00:20:24] We're talking about the way you interact in every day at life with other individuals, whether that's a group of your friends or a work group, or just the people you're talking to at a restaurant. Now, Brennan, before we roll heavy into that, because I know a lot of people are waiting for this part. What purchase of a hundred dollars or less did you make in the last year this had the biggest impact on your life?

[00:20:45] Brenden Kumarasamy: Ah, I usually get the purchase question, but not with the a hundred dollars restriction. Huh? A hundred dollars or less. I, I'll say something a little bit cheesy. The best investment I made this year that was less than a hundred bucks was to buy a Santa. . And the reason is because I put it on my head and I send video holiday messages to all of my clients, wishing them all happy holidays with my stupid hat on, and they love it

[00:21:15] So that would be the answer I would give you.

[00:21:17] David Dowlen: Okay. You know, it's, it's amazing. I like to ask that question mainly because it, it is so personal, right? It's very individual and it gives people ideas, right? What, what can I do? Now the a hundred dollars restraint gets a lot of people though. I, I laugh

[00:21:33] Brenden Kumarasamy: cuz a lot of people I need to rethink that one.

[00:21:35] Yeah, the a hundred dollars one.

[00:21:38] David Dowlen: So in doing research for the show, I came across a model you use and will you tell us about love letters for speaking anxiety.

[00:21:47] Brenden Kumarasamy: For sure. Absolutely. So one way to help us, there's many tools here to help us, and that's the first one to alleviate our anxiety is let's start with Taki more.

[00:21:56] Taki more says that your why generally starts with the who, the who behind your message. So what you want to do is you wanna write a one page love letter. To that person and why you're creating impact for that person. And it's a little bit emotional, but it really helps intertwine you with the demographic that you're trying to serve.

[00:22:18] So for example, in my letter to the seven year old girl who can't afford a communication coach, I won't recite the whole letter, but it's a a big focus around, Protecting her, right? Protecting the people who can't protect themselves. So it's a big reminder for me that every day I get lazy. Every day I get complacent, and I don't show up 10 out of 10 in my interviews or on a podcast or in my YouTube channel.

[00:22:41] I'm always reminded of that girl that nobody else is serving. So it really brings that fire back. Yeah, sure. I might feel a little anxiety. But my motivation is way more important and my, uh, willingness to serve is actually way more important as well to that person. And the other piece I would encourage everyone to think about Brent, when it comes to the love letter exercise is don't overthink the format, cuz the questions I usually get around it is.

[00:23:07] You know what? How? How should we start? What should be the middle? What should be the end? Don't even worry about that. I would just get a blank piece of paper and just speak your heart out. Don't worry about whether it's perfect. Don't overthink it. I think the process of just doing that will really give you that momentum that you need to get the ball rolling.

[00:23:26] David Dowlen: Right. I have to ask what kind of people are writing love letters and have they ever actually done it before? Because I never worried about formats. When I was writing my wife before we got married, , it wasn't a structured, it is not like when I'm planning an actual speech. There was no beginning, middle, end it, it was so maybe they've never written love

[00:23:45] Brenden Kumarasamy: letters.

[00:23:46] let's just say I get questions about everything. You know, I think, I think the challenge that most of us have as human beings that we fortunately can learn from children, cause I think children don't have this problem, is that we overthink things too much. Wait, let me give you an example with, uh, well, I know we're gonna talk about this at the end, but let's say video messages, right?

[00:24:04] So a lot of questions I get around video messages is like, what should the structure be? How long should it be? What lighting should I have? How many times should I retake it? And the answer is just, You should just do it. Like don't retake it. Open your phone. I don't care if you're in your basement, you could have a hoodie on.

[00:24:23] Just do it. Because most people don't even send a video message. And that's really the key. .

[00:24:29] David Dowlen: That's, that's the YouTuber. Me doing that. I was creating a video testimonial for someone. I'm like, what position do you want me in? Do you want me? Well, lift the dude. Just talk. I'm like, , standing in the middle of my studio.

[00:24:44] No, that doesn't feel right. . I I, I was, I've invested way too much in having a certain No, no, we, we just want you to talk. It's like, uh, that doesn't feel right. I'm not sure. So I, I get that right. You, you want to set a certain, but just, just doing it now. I, I love the idea of the love letters because that just lets you dig into the who and the why so deeply for yourself, right?

[00:25:13] That becomes very intimate and personal. I can see just the idea of crafting that out. In fact, I may do that after we finish recording, just cuz like write a love letter to my audience because that's something I haven't done yet, and it's. Like that's a, that's a really deep idea cuz you get very, I, I, oh man, I'm excited.

[00:25:30] I'm gonna get done with this. I'm gonna have all kinds of homework now. no, most people hear really stupid things like picture your audience naked in black socks. People used to tell me that all the time, right? Not just naked, but in black socks and you had to have the oddity in there. How do you coach people to handle being put on display, so to say, in pub, more public speaking.

[00:25:51] Brenden Kumarasamy: Absolutely Brent. So, so lemme start with this. What you've brought up is literally the reason why I was so confident that I had something remotely interesting to share, even if I had a ton of insecurity when I started Master Talk, because my immediate counter to that thought, which I'm sure you'd agree with, is nobody takes logic further.

[00:26:08] What if they're attractive? Then what do you. Do you just stare at them? Like, notice how that makes no sense. Like it creates a, a ton of logical things and it doesn't, it, it doesn't help us get better. So here's what I would say. It's momentum that gets built over time. So going back to my analogy, communication is like juggling 18 balls at the same time, where one ball is eye contact, one of them is body language, one of them is storytelling, and the list goes on.

[00:26:37] for me, the question now becomes, what are the three easiest balls to juggle? So through those balls, what happens is that momentum gets built up over time. So going back to your question around display, well, how do we overcome that? For me, the question is always, how do we do the harder thing? So that feels like a joke.

[00:26:57] So if we're on display, that automatically implies that we're giving a presentation that we generally know the subject in, and we had time to practice beforehand, and we might have time to actually talk to the audience a few minutes before. So for me, the question now becomes, how do we do exercises where you can't prepare the topic, where you don't know the audience beforehand at all, and you have no time to practice, or you might not even know what you're supposed to talk about, like the random word exercise where you pick a random or like lip balm or computer and you give random presentations out of thin air.

[00:27:30] And that really helps you alleviate your stress for those bigger moments when you're on. .

[00:27:37] David Dowlen: Okay. So look past the situation to a worse situation. I, I've, I've gotten like ambush onto this before, several times actually. I've walked into events. I used to be a youth minister. I've literally walked into events and had people be like, Hey, can you do this part of the Yeah, sure.

[00:27:55] When, when is that on the schedule? In like 10 minutes. Okay. So as a youth minister, I actually kept a. Sermon, a Bible class and a devotional like folded up in my Bible. Anywhere I went somewhere just because I knew I was gonna get ambushed if I showed up some of these things. But I actually struggled making the changeover to talking to a camera because I couldn't make the eye contract contact.

[00:28:22] I always find that one person in the audience that you can just look at 'em and like, you know that you're glad that you're there. And I, I find that one person and it's like, I'm gonna look at you. Anytime I start to struggle or feel like I'm, and with the camera right, it, it got so difficult for me starting out trying to look at a camera because I can't read the room.

[00:28:46] And so I, I always thought speaking in person was actually a little easier than speaking virtually for sure, but it's imagining harder. That's. That's a little scary. There's, there's definitely some fear there. Now guys, if you're getting anything out of this, be sure. Click the like button, do all the good social media nonsense, leave his comments, blah, blah, blah.

[00:29:12] You know, I hate this part. I do respond to all of the comments, guys, I really care what you guys say. Reach out to us. Let us know what you think of this, and what you're gonna apply, what you're taking away from this, and how you're gonna apply it in your life. I'd love to know, and we're gonna have contact information for Brennan at the end of the show so you can reach out and get more from him.

[00:29:31] And also just follow up with him as. Now I was looking and I have to ask, what is your advice for introverts? Because Sarah's in the background engineering as you know, and she's an introvert. Talking in front of people is not her thing and there are a lot of introverts out there.

[00:29:48] Brenden Kumarasamy: Absolutely. Great question, Brent.

[00:29:49] So here's what I would say. I actually kind of flipped the question on its head when I got the introvert question, cuz 70 to 80% of the people I work with are introverts. And what I always say is, you gotta triple down your strengths. You just don't know what they. So let's walk, walk us through them. So the first one is pausing.

[00:30:06] Pausing is the most important skillset set in communication. It's literally the base. So if you don't know how to pause to emphasize key points of your message, it's going to be really hard for you to get people excited about your message. But here's the punchline. The punchline brand is that introverts have a very easy time pausing when you help them practice a few times, and the reason is because they're already comfortable in silence cuz they spend less time talking.

[00:30:35] So it's easy for them to pause easier. Relatively speaking. Extroverts like me, I'm an extra. Extra as you can probably tell by now in this conversation is I hate. It took me a long time to master this cuz when we're at a party, we're at an event and there's a pause. I wanna ask you what your favorite killer is to save the space.

[00:30:56] I think Brett, is it yellow? Is it blue? And I just wanna keep the conversation going. Rez, an introvert won't have that problem. That's one. Number two, listening. Listening is so important in communication. And guess what? Introverts are exceptional listeners. Why? Because they spend less time. So because they're talking less, it's easier for them to listen to your ideas, ask you powerful questions, and adapt the message of their speech back to their audience more effectively than extrover.

[00:31:28] Whereas me, I'm always yapping all the time like I'm doing right now. I'm always talking, talk and talk and talk. So because of that, It took me many years to get really good at listening. I had to really force myself, Brent, to get at this level, but it was a much uphill, it was a much bigger uphill battle than, let's say an introvert would.

[00:31:46] Number three, and this is not well known. Introverts are a lot more accessible as communicators than extroverts are. Let me give you the ultimate example. Gary Vain or Chuck, the c e o, and founder of Vayner Media. I'm a big fan of his work, so this is not an insult by any means, but you either really love the guy or you really don't.

[00:32:07] So you either look at Garine, you go, wow, he's amazing. He's the best like me, big fan. Love the work that he's done, or you. Yeah, I really don't like him. He's always swearing all the time. He's always rude, . But here's the thing, Brent, nobody says that about Brene Brown. Nobody goes, nobody has uttered the following sentence in the history of humanity.

[00:32:29] I hate Brene Brown. If you say that. The f b I will come after you, the c i, the SWAT team, they'll arrest everybody and they'll take all, anyways, you get the. So what's the idea here? As an introvert, you're more accessible. You're a much better listener, and you know how to pause. So triple down your strengths cuz you're a lot better than you think.

[00:32:50] Okay. Okay.

[00:32:53] David Dowlen: Oh, I didn't expect to laugh quite that much. That was great. I

[00:32:57] Brenden Kumarasamy: try making entertaining, but that's the other point of master talk communication content is usually so boring. That's why I try to spice it up a little. .

[00:33:06] David Dowlen: I, I'm, I'm digging it cuz it is, it's, uh, you, you do any kind of speaking training and you're.

[00:33:14] This really sucks. This is, yeah. So totally, totally with you on that one. So how can we practice our communication in a non-threatening way?

[00:33:25] Brenden Kumarasamy: in a non-threatening way. Do you mean like, um, let me think about that. So, non-threatening way would be when we're speaking like in a boardroom, we don't wanna offend people.

[00:33:38] Is that what you're saying? You're comfort. No,

[00:33:40] David Dowlen: no, sorry. Uh, sorry. No, I didn't clarify that. Well, you're all good. No, in a way that is not threatening for us. Right? How do we practice this in a way? Oh, we don't feel. The pressure is much so we can actually guess and practice of this.

[00:33:55] Brenden Kumarasamy: I gotcha. And thanks for that, Sarah, as well in the chat.

[00:33:57] I gotcha. For us not threatening. I thought we were, we were not, not to threaten other people. I got a little confused there. Okay, so, so, so here's what I would say. So this is actually a great place to actually talk about our easy threes here. So the easy threes are the random word exercise, the question drill, and the video messages.

[00:34:16] So let's break each of those three things down, Brent. So the first one is the random word exercise. We talked about this a little bit briefly, where we take a random word like trophy, like master, like talk, like ceiling and cre, create random presentations out of thin air. So this exercise serves two purposes.

[00:34:34] it helps us deal with uncertainty because life is filled with it. For example, when you go meet somebody at an event, you have no idea how that conversation is going to go, right? You don't know how people are going to speak, what questions that will be asked. So if you talk about avocados for 30 seconds, you could handle that small talk a lot better.

[00:34:54] And the second piece that I teach my clients that you can write down a piece of paper, everyone is if you could make sense out of nonsense, you could make sense out of anything. So now going back to your question, Brent, this is not something you have to do in front of an audience. To your point, like how do we communicate in a way that's non-threatening for us?

[00:35:12] That's safe, that's easy. Do this at home, do this alone in your basement, because more practice or doing it is better than not doing it. Then you could do it with one or two people and build up your confidence. But you can literally do this with nobody watching. That's one. The second exercise is the question drill.

[00:35:30] So the question drill just implies that we get asked questions all the time in our life, Brent, at school, at work, on a podcast, but most of us are reactive to those questions. We're not p. Let me give you a funny example of this. When I started guessing on shows a few years ago, I sucked, and even today I kinda had some problems, so I'm still working on it.

[00:35:51] But back then I was a lot worse. And I remember some guy asked me the funniest question, Brett. He said, where does the fear of communication come from? So obviously today had a much better answer, but back then I looked at the guy and I said, I don't know, man. Los Angeles, San Diego. You tell me, I don't know.

[00:36:09] So what did I do to fix this? Every single day for five minute Sprint, I would write down one question and I would answer it about communication. So day one was, how do you overcome your fear of communication? Day two was, what's your tips for introverts? Day three was, how do you present better on camera?

[00:36:29] But if you do that five minutes a day, once again, you could do this alone with nobody else watching you. You do it for a year, you'll have answered 365 questions about your industry and you'll be unbeatable. And then finally, number three, when you build up the courage after you do one and two, just make a list of five people you love the most in your.

[00:36:50] Especially as men, I find we don't do this enough and just send the people around you, your wife, your daughter, your cousin, your clients, and send them a 22nd gratitude video message to say, Hey, I really appreciate everything that you've done for me this year. Wishing you and everyone around you happy holidays.

[00:37:07] And that's it. So simple. Nobody doesn't.

[00:37:11] David Dowlen: I love the random videos. Uh, the second point, right? Just, just the idea of the level that could move you in your industry is incredible. Answering one question about your industry every day, that, that's just, that goes beyond communication to just success. Mm-hmm. , if you are the guy who has all the answers, who knows the answers to those questions, they're, you're just unstoppable at that point.

[00:37:40] so that that has a double purpose to it. That's just an incredible thought process just to run through that. It's like, wow, that's, you would have, so I've, I've been podcasting for 27 months or so at the time of this recording, and I, I know my industry pretty well, but I know I have room to grow in everything.

[00:38:04] But just the idea of doing that to a practice answering question. And b, make myself really know my industry better. That's just like a, a one-two punch. That's incredible.

[00:38:17] Brenden Kumarasamy: I'm glad you enjoy that, Brent. Yeah, that's, that's actually the secret behind my six success. Obviously, we're not gonna hide it. I'm not the oldest guest you've had on your show.

[00:38:25] So, the reason that I've been, because my average client's 20 years older than me, right? Mm-hmm. . So why do they trust me with their transformation? It's because I rep the question drill, and I'm practicing it right? because I just got asked maybe 10 or 15 questions in an hour. Mm-hmm. , which is more question drilled to the extreme where you're practicing a lot, but I've done this thousands of times.

[00:38:47] Thousands of times. So when you do this, you're able to accelerate, you're able to shortcut your growth in the industry and go Another quote actually we didn't talk with that people can write down as well. That I think symbolizes your point as well around success is the follow boy. If you communicate 20% better than your competition, you will stand out a hundred percent of the time.

[00:39:12] So it's not about doing everything. It's about realizing, Brent, that most people who are listening to this podcast unfortunately might write down the random word exercise, might write down the video message, might write down the question, Joe. But very few of them will actually do all three every single day consistently.

[00:39:32] That's why Alex Hermo says that the goal is not to do the extraordinary thing, but rather realize that the growth and the success lies in doing the ordinary thing for an extraordinarily long period of time. And that's what I would challenge your audience to think about. Book 15 minutes in your calendar every single day, and just do this every day.

[00:39:52] David Dowlen: I think it was, uh, Michael Jordan who said he threw 200 free throws every night after practice before he left the court. I, I try and teach my daughter. She's like, you know, it's not about the fantasy sometimes. Sometimes it's about doing the basic skills so well that you're just unstoppable now, Brendan, before we wrap up, what is the most important thing you want somebody to hear today to take outta this whole

[00:40:20] Brenden Kumarasamy: convers.

[00:40:22] Absolutely. Brent, thanks so much for having me on. This is so much fun. I would say for me, the biggest takeaway is a question. That would encourage your audience to think about, and the question is, how would your life change if you became an exceptional communicator? You know, the biggest problem I have with this industry is exactly what you talked about at the beginning of the episode around glossophobia, right?

[00:40:44] The fear of communication. Those that don't know, that's just a medical term for fear, and it's always around stress and anxiety, and that's the. That. That right there is the problem with our industry, Brent, where a lot of the thought leadership is always focused on fear. Fear, this anxiety, this stress that we're not gonna get better that way.

[00:41:06] So for me, the question now becomes in the same way that we dream a better businesses about our careers, about our health, about our relationships, about the material things we wanna buy a house, a car, a. How can we dream about our communication skills? How do we dream about a life in which, wait a second.

[00:41:28] If I did these three exercises, even if it's alone in my basement with nobody else watching me, how would it change my life? And the people around me start to dream a little bit more about your communication skills, because you'll realize really quickly that communication isn't just about making a little bit extra money every year.

[00:41:46] It's about the way that you raise your children. It's about the way that you talk to your. It's about the way that you make new friends, and more importantly, it's about the way that you lead a more fulfilling life. So, that's my final thought. What

[00:41:59] David Dowlen: is next for Brennan?

[00:42:02] Brenden Kumarasamy: Yeah, I would say for me, what's next, man?

[00:42:04] You know, I'm super fortunate. I, I was able to, to get some level of success. This relative to my age. So I'd say now the focus is really scaling, scaling the YouTube channel. So I can really impact a lot more lives, scaling the coaching practice, scaling the media, and then eventually writing the book in the next five, 10 years.

[00:42:22] That's what's on my mind too. But like everyone else, I don't have all the answers on either. So I have my coach helping me figure out what are the next moves after that, but I think I'll be good for the next five years. Vision wise,

[00:42:33] David Dowlen: I love the Motivat. And the way you said it, right? A lot of people, cause I have a YouTube channel, it's small, but a lot of people want to go to YouTube because they think they can get rich or whatever your words were.

[00:42:48] So I can impact more people and I, I absolutely love that man, that that's, that's awesome. Where is the best place for people to find. For

[00:42:58] Brenden Kumarasamy: sure Brent. So two ways to keep in touch, and thanks for the kind words as well. So the first part is definitely the YouTube channel. Just go to Master Talk and you'll have access to hundreds of free videos on how to communicate ideas effectively.

[00:43:10] And the second way to keep in touch is to attend one of my free communication workshops over Zoom. I do a free one over every two weeks, and you could see a lot of my tips applied in person, not well, not in person, but live while I'm on the Zoom call. So if you wanna jump in on that free call, go to rockstar communicator.com.

[00:43:32] David Dowlen: Guys, if you're watching this on YouTube, we've got it up on the screen. As always, we'll have links to connect with Brennan, including this one in the show notes or the description, whatever platform you're listening to or watching this on. And we want you to be able to find him. Like I was talking to him earlier, I, I love his Instagram.

[00:43:49] His Instagram is awesome. You guys need to get over there and follow his Instagram. He's got a lot of great little videos over there. They're quick, they're easy to the point, and like I was actually like, Going man, like one video after the other for a while. While I was researching today, I was like, wow, an Instagram is actually worth watching.

[00:44:06] So thanks having valuable content, uh, to the world there. Instagram is not where I normally go for valuable insights and content. Uh, so I love what you're doing with that, with your Instagram guys, as always, be better tomorrow because of what you do today, and we'll see on the next. This has been

[00:44:27] Brenden Kumarasamy: the Fallible Man Podcast.

[00:44:29] Your home for everything, man, husband, and father. Be sure to subscribe so you don't miss a show. Head over to

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[00:44:41] Brenden Kumarasamy: content and get your own fallible

[00:44:44] David Dowlen: man here.