The Power of Action: Escaping the Comfort Zone for True Satisfaction - Michael Jaquith

[00:00:00] Do something. The average guy is drifting. The average guy is content to be comfortable. Don't settle for comfort because you will drift into a place that you hate later, 20 years down the road. Do it now. If you don't believe me, find someone 20 years older than you and look in their eyes as you ask them, did this work out for you?

Do something today. Won't waste the,

here's the million dollar question. How do men like us reach our full potential? Growing to the men we dream of being while taking care of our responsibilities, working, being good husbands, fathers, and still take care of ourselves. Well, that's the big question In this podcast, we'll help you answer those questions and more.

My name is Brent and welcome to the Fallible Man Podcast.

Welcome to the Fallible Man Podcast. You're home for all things, man, husband, and father. Big shout out to Fallible Nation. You guys make things like this possible and a warm welcome to our first time listeners. My name is Brent, and today my guest is Catholic Life Coach for Men, Michael Jaquith. Michael, welcome [00:01:00] to the Fallible Man Podcast.

Brent, thank you for having me on. I'm so excited to be here and I'm really looking forward to this conversation. Michael, we like to start things off on a little bit of a lighter note here, so I have a random trivia question for you. Are you ready? Let's do it. Okay. What is the term for a group of turkeys?

Is it A or rafter? B? A gobble. C. A Clutch. R d. A Roast. I think it's a clutch, but I'm not sure. How'd I do? We'll wait. We'll have to see. We'll get back to that. To the end of the show, guys, you know the rules. Don't cheat. Write it out. Write down your guess. We'll see how we did at the end. Now Michael, I don't do big introductions because people just don't care about all the accolades and nonsense.

And as a host I get to like research you. So in your own words, who is Michael Jack with? I'm a father of six children. I'm married to a wonderful Catholic lady. I'm a Catholic man. I work with people of all different sorts of different walks in life, different faith perspectives. I [00:02:00] am a life coach only because I've stumbled here cuz God whacked me in this direction.

I started off with a PhD in chemistry doing corporate research. So I'm a weird duck. I'm like an engineer, kind of does a little bit with feelings at the same time, so it makes for a fun combination. Just out of curiosity, how do you go from chemistry to life? Coach? Oh, it's a bumpy road, is probably the right way to say there.

But, you know, it's funny, I think I can capture this. One of the, when I first got going in corporate research, I was quickly promoted. I was given this team and I was a complete jerk face, like literally a jerk face. And I knew this only after my boss pulls me off to the side one day and says, Michael, It's been good having you work here, but just, you know, every single person in your team wants to quit cuz they can't stand working for you.

And I was like, gut punched. I'm like, oh. But he looks at me in the eye and he says, I see potential. If you're willing to change and to learn, I'll give you another team. And he did. And he coached the heck out of me. And I then turned around and inside the corporal role starting the same thing for other guys that were in there.

So much so [00:03:00] that eventually I'm like, you know what? I love this part way more than the chemistry part. And so it was a bumpy path there, and a lot of times I'm like, what the heck am I doing? But that's how it went. I think any coach worth assault will will say it's, it's always a bumpy ride, man. That's true.

I, I do relationship and personal development coaching and, and trust me, there are days like. What? Okay. This is a stretch, guys. What am I doing here now, Michael, what is one strange thing that you like to do? So one thing that may freak people out when it's wintertime here, I like to get the ice is thick enough.

We take a quad and two rubber tubes and go out on the ice and get the kids and put the kids in the tubes and go spinning across with the quad has like chains on the on, on the tires. And you spin those kids and I, you can spin those kids fast enough that the quad, the tubes will actually come up off the ice and just like be spinning through the air and they love it.

And the first time people watch this, they're like, Oh my goodness, what's gonna happen? I'm like, they're basically on a cushion to snow. It's like [00:04:00] skiing, but on a flat space. And it's so much fun both for the driver and for riding the tubes. Okay. And for all of you, he lives up in the northern, more northern parts of our country and nice cold areas where he gets cold enough to do that.

I wouldn't recommend that in Arizona. That is correct. Right up in your neck of woods. That works pretty well. What you most proud of? Well, aside from my family, cuz I've gotta say raising six kids and, and building and watching those kids grow into beautiful, loving human beings, like that's gotta be up there.

Second off, it's the number of people in my life, and there's a lot that I've been able to touch in such a way that they came back later on and they said, Michael, you know, I was on this particular path and my family had been on this particular path, and now I'm on this new path and you're one of the main reasons why I'm there and I will be forever in your debt for that.

And the gratitude and, and the manly tears that come with those moments, like that's, that's not as good as the kids, but that's up there. That's pretty powerful. It is [00:05:00] always awesome. I tell people one life, right? We, if we can truly impact one life, one person in a meaningful way there there's just a lifetime of value in that.

So I know that's a, that's a totally cool thing and it's gotta be great knowing you have those stories and have managed to walk along with people, so that's very cool. What purchase of a hundred dollars or less have you made in the last year has had the biggest impact on your life? Ooh, that's a tough one.

I didn't see that one coming. You know, this is gonna sound silly. I can actually pull it up. For those of you who are watching live screen, I've got this really cool little like retaining clip right here. It's made of titanium. It was, I don't know, 50 bucks, maybe that. But it's got all sorts of tools built into it.

Used to always have a Caribbean clip and like, this is like a walk, like a leatherman and all sorts of combined to one. I use it all the time. And so for a little purchase, it was pretty cool. Okay. I'm a big fan of multi-tool. Like, they're, they're whoever came up with Leatherman and Gerber, those, those guys were thinking, cause I'm, I'm that guy that's like, [00:06:00] yes, I can buy one thing that's gonna do 27 different things.

Right. So after, after we talk, I may have to get like a link for that from you. Cause happy to share. I, I now want one. It's titanium too. It's like the little pry bar on the top, like, this actually works. I pulled nails out with this thing. Like it's got so many little tools all built into it. The whole bottom end's got like little tiny pieces there too.

It's pretty cool. All me out, all of my pocket knives have a broken tip. Yes. Because I try and fry things with all of them. Right. My daughter asked me one day, she's like, dad, why do all your knives have a broken tip? Because I had one really great knife in my life that you could use for anything. And every other knife just kind of falls short.

But I keep trying. That's awesome. So what is one random fact that people don't know about you? One random fact. I'm actually secretly a dog lover and here's why that's a secret, cuz my wife [00:07:00] is like, I. Like a 12 out 10 dog lover, but I'm like a nine out of 10 dog lover. And so like whenever they meet us, my wife just kind of eclipses me with her dog living, which is, which is profound.

But we both actually united initially over our love of dogs together. But you watch me, you wouldn't know that. But it is actually true. Like I really love dogs. I love what, when you like, you know, get engaged with dog and you're playing in the joy. We have a great Pyrenees and every so often in the wintertime, she loves the snow and we have a long driveway to the road.

And she gives you this look. And if you know the right look, the look means I want to race you. And so gas at heart going down the driveway, even though it's snowy and icy, just the dog who's running on top of like three feet of snow is like full out sprinting and it reached the end of the driveway. The race is odd to see who gets there first.

Oh, she thinks it's so much fun and I secretly do too, that that is a big dog that she, she's. Oh, it's a good thing you live north, man. They, they have heavy coats. Yeah, they do. She's an outside. She loves it. [00:08:00] What is something everyone should know about you before we dig into the show today? I think what everyone should know is that my own journey to get here, I've basically broken every single one of the rules and every single one of the guidelines I wanna tell you about.

Kinda how I started off with the story about, you know, my boss and everyone wanted to leave Everywhere down there, I've been there. I've chased down the ladies, I've chased the alcohol, I've chased the pornography, I've chased all of it. So like don't ever think that I'm saying this stuff about having first walked that other walk.

And that's I think, really important. Cause I think a lot of people who haven't been to the darkness will talk about the principles and it's very different. You can tell the difference when someone's been there. Yeah. Yeah. Guys, we, we wanted to just take some time and get to know Michael A. Little bit as we try and do with our guests, because I want you to know who they are.

I don't wanna just bring on strangers. I want you to understand who we're talking to, where they're coming from, and, and kind of get a fill for 'em. The next part of the show, we're gonna dive into the current state of masculinity and men in our current culture in this world. [00:09:00] We're gonna roll there, our sponsor, and we will be right back with more from Michael.

Now, before we go any further, I wanted to share with you guys, I don't always tell you how much I love doing my podcast, like I passionately love what I'm doing and one of the things that makes my life better as a podcaster is to work with a company like Grow Your Show. Grow your show is a one-stop podcast.

Do it all. Now I use Grow Your Show for my marketing, but Grow Your Show is literally a one-stop shop. You can record your episode and just drop it off with them and they take it from there. It's amazing. If you are interested in picking up podcasting as a hobby or maybe you're looking to expand your business and use podcasting that aspect, talk to my friends over Grow Your Show.

Adam will take care of you. I guarantee it. I trust him. He's my friend. He's my business. Colleague and I wouldn't trust anybody else with my show. Guys, welcome back. In the first part of the show, we were just spending some time getting to know who Michael Jack with is. In this part of the show, we're gonna dive into some of the current states of men masculinity [00:10:00] in our current culture and how that affects men.

Now, Michael, as you well know, like the world is kind of a little mad these days there, there's a lot going on. What, what do you think about. This toxic masculinity culture that crops up every so often, you know? So I'm gonna just preface what I'm gonna say here, that if you are particularly sensitive to politically incorrect things, my next words may be a little rough.

But here's the real deal, Brent. I look right now and I see that the damage that's been done to men with a lot of lies, with a lot of bad information, and I'll even say toxic information, turn the, turn it around a little bit there. Is is pretty profound. And so the reality is men like women are meant to be strong.

However, masculine strength, authentic, good. I'll even use the word holy masculine strength is very, very different than authentic holy feminine strength. They're both need to be there. For a happy, for a family to be happy, for a culture to be happy, for a world to be happy for governments to work the way it's supposed to be.

You need both [00:11:00] men and women, despite what certain politicians and activists might want to believe. But here's the reality. A proper masculine strength manifests in a way that is challenging to bad ideas. And so because of that, those who want to push bad ideas have the agenda of undercutting mask and strength, and I think we're seeing a very effective job of that.

And the statistics are totally behind this. You look right now at the fate of men, the fate of boys in our world and the almost every metric across the board, not only is getting worse, but particularly scales with fatherlessness. And I see a coordinated attack to decrease masculine strength by people with these agendas.

And I think we're suffering horrifically from that. You know, it's always baffled me because. What, what, what we would define here as healthy masculinity has never reduced or oppressed women ever, ever. I, I've never seen a [00:12:00] healthy masculine male who felt he needed to suppress or oppress a woman, or that he needed to lessen her strength are who she is.

I'd argue it's the opposite. It's, it is the wimpy man is the man who doesn't stand tall and stands strong, who has to try to, you know, suppress a woman somehow or beat her down or whatever the, the phrasing is the man who stands tall is able to love and have space. For a woman to be a woman. That's essential, right?

So, yeah, I'm always baffled by what they, there's like, this is how, how, how do you define an entire species by the worst of its kind. Right. We, we don't look at the lion who someone stumbles in the wrong part of the preserve and, and the lion that kills somebody. And we go, oh my goodness. All lions are bad, right?

We, we don't do that with another species. We, we don't look at a dog and be like, you know what? That, that pit bull is vicious. And so all dogs should be killed. But it's worse than that though, [00:13:00] Brent. This is more in to imagine you took a dog and you tormented it and, and please don't ever do this, of course, but if you just tormented it and trained it to be a vicious beast and then said, see conclusive proof, pit bulls are bad.

Dog dogs are bad and dangerous. I, I read a study the other day. This was in Africa. There was this group of elephants that was going around and just destroying villages, and they couldn't figure out what was going on. And so they brought in this biologist and it turns out it's just young male elephants.

And what happened is poachers had killed off all the adult senior males. And without that role model, without that guide, they, they were just going nuts. Destroying all this stuff. And so all they did is they went to another herd, carefully took transplanted some of the adult males, the senior males from the second herd, the first herd within weeks cleared up.

No other problems. And we right now are creating men like this wayward group of elephants that go out there and don't even know what men is, don't know what it's like to be a man. And they do these crazy things and it becomes this self-fulfilling state where you're like, then the liberals are like, Hey, look right there.

See, I told you men were bad. I'm [00:14:00] like, Guys, you had a hand in creating this situation the same way the poachers did with this first elephant, elephant herd, right? And then we jump into the opposite end of the spectrum, right? We're talking this nasty pendulum. Spring, spring. It was funny cuz I had never heard this term until I don't know, it was last year of the, the nanosphere culture.

I haven't heard this from yet either actually. No. The manosphere, yeah. One of, one of my guests was asking me, he was like, well, you know, there's a lot of you guys in the manosphere. I was like, what is a manosphere? And so I started looking on YouTube and like there, there's a cultural movement that's on the far extreme of this.

Like, okay, well I. Everybody's labeled us as evil and bad, so we're gonna go be hyper masculine over here and do our own thing. Mm-hmm. And like they're leading towards what's called the Migal movement. Have you heard of this? No. Men going their own way. That sounds horrible. And it's, yeah, [00:15:00] it's, the women don't actually bring much of the relationship.

99% of the time, especially modern women aren't bringing a lot to the relationships because they're being told all they gotta do is be pretty. And so, They're like, well, well what do we get from the relationship? We might get some physical intimacy and some my candy on our arm, but is that worth the headache?

The possibility of them taking half of our stuff, the nagging, the, you know, drag on our income that relationships are. Because if you look right, the divorce journey becomes very one-sided. Yeah, anymore, you don't have to be with like married to somebody. You've got relationships that have, well, we are in a relationship for two years and, and he owes me support.

Excuse me. Wait, how did that happen? But yeah, there are more and more men going, you know what? Have a fling. Do your, do your thing and then just focus on, you [00:16:00] don't get into a relationship. Relationships are dangerous, and I'm seeing this. Both sides across the spectrum is like, oh know, honestly, Brent, this breaks my heart.

It really does. I'm hearing you Ty say this, like, I cannot imagine what life would be like, and I mentioned I have six kids and how important they are to me, but. The reality is we as humans are called to find something that gives meaning and purpose to life. Like you only get, you set yourself, you only have one life, and you can chase money.

It doesn't go with you. You know, when you're in your deathbed, you're never like, if only made $10 more, I'd be so much happier right now. Like, that's just not how life works. And the thought of, well, it's, it's in effect, it's thrown out. The baby with the bath water is what's really happening there in almost a literal sense.

And that's just heartbreaking. Like I would say to any guy who's on that thing, you'll get down maybe 10, 20, maybe 30 years that way and then you're gonna wake up and realize how hollow it is. Because the human being was not meant to go it alone. The human being was meant for [00:17:00] relationship. And one of my favorite metaphors using these topics is a dance.

And this is the equivalent of saying I, I love swing dancing my wife and to go swing dancing east coast swing. And so when the man raised his hand, you know, the wife is supposed to spin and all that. And, and I'm not an expert dancer, but don't tell anyone that. And so we're in the middle of this dance, right?

And there's this, this beauty of the dynamic, the back and forth. And as a man, it's my job to lead, but by me raise my hand for her to spin. It doesn't take anything away from her. It only actually sets her up to even have even more of the spotlight, even more of the center of attention, if you will.

Because she's doing this beautiful spin, then maybe I execute this beautiful turn with her. And that dynamic of that dance is what makes life worth living. And not East Coast Wing per se, dynamic of the relationship. Of course, this is where perhaps the metaphor needs to be extended a bit, but if you're a guy on that path right now, I would just invite you to bluntly look for a woman who values things that are differently.

Cause, cuz you're right, there are a lot of women out there who do have that value system, but they're not the only women out there. [00:18:00] See, I, I think that leads into another culture shift, right? The amount, where are men supposed to meet women these days? Right? You don't generally date in the workplace. Yeah.

And so there's a lot of online dating. I, I talked to a men's online dating coach one time. I was like, I'm so glad I'm not doing that right now. Cuz that just, that sounds horrible. It does, it does. I should point out that my wife and I met Annie on eHarmony, this was 12 years ago now. And so obviously I know tons has changed since then, but, I think with a lot of the online dating stuff, I, I still have, you know, worked with some younger guys before in my, in my coaching career.

And I think so much of it comes with getting crystal clear what you want and what your values are upfront, and then ruthlessly pursuing those values. And I gotta be the guys, we gotta just be real honest with ourselves. It's easy as a guy to be distracted by. The visual guys are so fired by that visual and it's so easy to be like, whoa, look.

Okay. And nothing else [00:19:00] matters. I like what I'm looking at. That's where I'm going Deal is on. And guys, that's just not what we need. Here's the deal, beauty is fleeting. Like it will pass. Gosh, she's cute. I get it. But that's, that will fleet, what matters is what's up here. What is she thinking? What is she saying?

What are her values? What's important to her? And the truth is, you, you cannot compromise on those and set up with those runs and, and if you're in a space where you're just playing, well, eventually, this is a hard message. And I say this the deepest love I can, but eventually you gotta grow up. And that's just really what it is cuz you're eventually gonna get there eventually.

And then what? You're too old. It's, it's really hard. You hit 35, 40, 45, 50 and yeah, your swimmers still swims. So you can still maybe make babies, but you don't have to body 40 anymore. Raising children is tough work, man. I, I've had six children, I've had to swing on my shoulder and it's tiring. Even at 42, let alone, I can't imagine doing at 65 grow up and get to it cuz that's what matters.

And that is what you will find me for in life. And it's a hard message, but I gotta, I [00:20:00] gotta put it straight. Well, let me, let me touch on something you said right there. You said eHarmony, right? Yeah. Guys, you have choices if you're doing the online dating thing. I, I've been married for 22 years now. I way past the having to deal with that.

Sarah and I met when we were teenagers and had been, you know, together for years. So that was not something I had to go down. But you have choices if you are doing online dating about which platforms you're on. Which ones you utilize. And, and that will actually definitely affect, right? Because people are going to go towards one where they're more likely to find their values.

E eHarmony has a little better base than what, what's the one I see all the time? Like this? Like break or whatever? Tinder. Tinder, right? Yeah. Don't go to Tinder. Think you're gonna find a real relationship. Likewise, don't go to the bar thinking you're gonna find a real relationship. Like really don't go to the bar and think you're gonna find a real relationship.

You gotta go somewhere. People are like you. Like if, if you are [00:21:00] a person of faith, go to the church events. If, if you are a per, like, whatever your values are, go there. You're completely right. Brent. I agree a hundred percent. Oh yeah. Sarah. Sarah and I met at church, at a church event. And honestly like, I was like so, so grateful that that was like, all right.

Found an amazing woman. Yes. This is, this is the one I, I don't know that I could have. If I had to try and do it again 20 years later with, in the modern set, I'm not sure I would even begin to know how to chase that down and work that out, honestly. So I have to ask you, Michael, there's the whole identity culture going on, right?

And I mean, that, that covers everything from pronouns to non-binary people to I identify as I, I told somebody one day, I said, you know what? Basically I can identify as a bear and walk around naked and crap on things and tear up things and no one can say anything. Right. That's, I mean, that's, that's [00:22:00] where we're moving towards the insanity wise.

What, what is, how is that just even growing up as a young man right now, how do you even start to sort all this nonsense out? Well, I think you're right that the key word there is identity and. This is something I think that we've actually lost a little bit of sense of what does that word mean? And at, at some point in everyone's life, we look in a mirror and consciously or not, we ask the question, what is this thing I'm looking at here?

Like, let's be honest, like I'm not the best looking guy. I smashed my face a couple weeks old in the skiing accent, you know, whatever. But what is this thing here? And for most of history, We had an answer to that question for most of the history was defined by your tribe, by your clan, maybe by religion, maybe by your, your historical cultural trends.

Like you generally didn't move too far from your parents. The clans would move together, but you had a sense of history and [00:23:00] now several things have combined together. Number one, we do lot move a lot more, and so we've lost some of that identity, but there's a bigger piece to it too. I, I think there's a lot of anger that.

Whatever the source, we can get conspiracy theories later on if you want, but whatever the source of it has combined to form a rejection of the historical identities, but there's not been something else put in their place. And this is really problematic because nature of horrors of vacuum, we just cannot live with a vacuum.

And when you leave human beings, the vacuum of this critical question. Who and what am I? They're gonna suck something in there. That's the way vacuums work. They pull something in, but what gets sucked in may not be the right thing. And so here you have somebody who knows there's a problem. The reality is they probably have a lot of problems cause all of us have a lot of problems.

Like show me a human being and there's like a different levels of stuff that they're not doing right. Okay. And but the, one of the biggest ones they have is they don't know who they are. And here comes along an [00:24:00] activist and they say, here's your problem. You need this identity. And maybe what the person action needs is a bit of love and support and empathy and connection and relationships that are meaningful.

Well, when you right now declare I'm this other identity, you get a cheap facsimile of those. And for someone who's never had the real relationships, the real connection, the real meaning that Chief Facsimile looks awful good. And I get it. I have very deep sympathy. I, I think the people who are going through some of these challenges, Deserve tremendous empathy and support cause they're being jerked around.

But there is a better identity, and you'll see this, even the fundamental expression of what does it mean to be a man? And the idea of toxic masculinity has so eroded. The good part of being a man that the average male who doesn't have a good example rejects the whole thing. But there is a powerful way to be a man.

There's a way to be manly that calls the innermost being. Of a Y X Y chromosome bearing individual, such as myself, such as yourself. [00:25:00] And I think if we want to see real progress made on the so-called identity crisis problem we're seeing, we need to start by restoring those original, valid identities that are based in not only biology, but psychology.

Okay. It's interesting listening to you explain it because I, I spent part of my life, so I moved a lot growing up. My father was a domestic missionary and we worked, he worked specifically as a transitional minister, helping go from small congregations who had lost a long-term minister for whatever reason, and we'd be there for a couple years and help them settle balance and get back into a healthy rhythm so that the next minister could come in and actually work.

And so we, we moved a lot. I've lived from coast to coast, but at one point we lived in a very gang populous area and like it's the only youth group I was ever a part of where we had a knife fight, break out on, on a bus trip too. A youth event. Like it, yeah, it, it got dangerous some [00:26:00] days there. And so, because we had two war in games and gangs and, and the church was the neutral area, right.

Because they both had roots there. So that was, that was the no-fly zone. We, we had bloods on one side and Crips on the other side of the auditorium. They went their separate ways after church. So it was, it was a very interesting place. But one of the big draws for that was exactly that. It was this vacuum of real solid family foundations.

A sense of family and belonging and knowing where you stand, that that was one of those big appeals for gangs. Was that, well, here's where you can be and here's your identity with us, and here's where you stand in that and who you are and we're your family now. Mm-hmm. Right? So yeah, it gave a sense of tribe for those without, and it sounds very much that way with [00:27:00] this current culture, right?

If the way you explain it, we've taken away, this is what men are. This is who men are, this is where they belong, how they look, how they act. And now we're just going we'll, we'll show you what that looks like. Right? It looks like you and a tutu with bright orange hair. You know, it's it's kind of scary.

I, I just, the similarities super scary. But any traditional definition of religion woke is a religion. And you first you say, okay, cool, that's religion. What does that mean? Well, what is the, what is this professed goal? Okay, well let's ask that question. What is the goal of it? Look at what the leadership is saying.

Its goal is in the documented writings of leadership. There's some really scary things there and the results we're getting seem to be consistent with their documented goals. And you look at it that way and like I think it really becomes incumbent upon to find a different substitute to put in there for that identity.

Okay. One more question before we head towards the, towards the next segment of the, in the show guys. How [00:28:00] do you think generational differences are impacting this? So that is a real factor and I, I think, let me, let me tread carefully on this one. Cause I don't want to step on too many toes in one podcast episode at once.

No, that's. So we have to, we first have to state the obvious truth, that the generational change is now faster than it's ever been before. And you look at just each generation, the new things, the percentage of what's new they're encountering is radically higher. So what does this mean? It means that each generation has more disconnect in previous one, but there's a second factor going on here as well.

I just need to call a spade a spade. With that, we had some funny things happen after World War ii. We had the baby boomer generation come up. All right? And so all of a sudden we have all these Dexter, this big bubble of people come through and because it's a big bubble, because of the way capitalism works, especially when you look at the fact our capitalism system isn't perfect.

Because of that, they became the center of attention politically cuz they were the biggest voting block economically cuz they had the most buying power. [00:29:00] And so they kind of got a little bit of this generational entitlement mentality that that's, they were good enough. So you have this older generation that's good enough.

You have the younger generations that are radically changing and that's being disconnected and it's natural for the younger generations to repudiate the older generations. Being old Ogies a little bit like that's just always there, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Grandpa, be quiet. We get it, we get it. That's always been a factor, but given the alignment of the fact it was the baby boomers.

The size and all the extra tension they got and the alignment of the speed of change With tech, I think we've seen more disconnect than ever. And so the end result is that 200 and more years ago when a young individual was confused about life, they didn't know what to do, they'd go talk to the village elders, the Klan elders, the tribe elders.

They get 'em straightened out just like those old elephants that in the story I told earlier. Now they don't do that. They don't trust them. The, the, the confidence, the rapport, the relationship with this multi-generational gap is [00:30:00] gone and it leaves them looking, leaves them very vulnerable to whatever they want to have shoved down their throat.

By political activists, it also leaves them very lonely and very unable to solve these deep human problems they have. And I believe that's actually one of the reasons why we've seen this explosive growth of the coaching industry is to fill exactly that void. Okay guys, we're, we're having a great conversation here.

This is, this is honest conversation without, we're, we're not trying to say who's right, who's wrong. We're trying to have an honest conversation about just the state of being a man right now in the world. And it is very chaotic. It is very crazy. Men have less than I of an identity and like an understandable identity than we've had.

Ever in history, our roles were always very clearly defined, much, you know, in times before. So we want to transition from here towards how you can start to change that for your own story. But before we get into that [00:31:00] and reclaiming our powers, man, we're gonna rule our next sponsor and we will be right back with more from Michael.

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Now let's go on to the show. Guys, welcome back. In the last part of the show, we spent some time discussing the current state of men and masculinity and what that looks like in modern culture and some of the multicultural misconceptions and problems men are facing. This part of the show, we're going to get [00:32:00] into reclaiming our power as men.

I believe every man, man was born for a specific purpose, but as men, we are meant for purpose in our life, period. Women are too, but we have it. Well, and, and that's getting lost these days. So Michael and I are gonna dig into that a little bit. Michael, we should always start at beginning, right? So what kind of foundations do we need to put down as men to help us become the men we want to be?

So I think the first thing we have to do as a man is we have to get crystal clear on what we want to do. Now, this isn't binding, like you get to decide, this is my target for now, but the human being is a teleological creature, which is a big word, but it really means we have an aim. And so even your eyesight, right?

Look at your eyesight, your fine vision. Eyesight is like this big, right? Because your everything about you is an aim. As a guy, you know, I'm gonna bring in here a little bit more of a philosophical perspective for a second. Guys have an outward focused energy. Women have an inward energy. You, you see this, you see a woman with a little child.

She draws little child in [00:33:00] Naturally, men have an outward focused energy and so particularly for a guy to not have an aim, you've got nothing. You can go cause you dunno where you're going, but you also have to know where you're coming from. This is the other half of the foundation. I think it builds all this.

And you know where you're coming from. Who are you? If you had a difficult childhood, which I did. My father went to jail for 10 years when I was in sixth grade. Cause of horrible things he did. I understand that we come sometimes from a less than ideal beginning. That doesn't matter. You've got to do the work to establish what is your beginning, who are you?

Are you going to be this person who is rudderless? Cause someone in you, in your family made some horrible decision. It's not gonna serve you for your life, like this is your life. You only got one life, you gotta deal with it. So start with this beginning. Do this work in your childhood. Integrate yourself so you have this solid beginning and then set name.

And to me, that's the foundation. We can't even talk about how you wanna stand up and be strong if you don't know where you're coming from and where you're going. I think that's one of the most, I was talking to someone the other day, slightly different version, take on the conversation, but [00:34:00] that was one of the questions that he likes to start with, is I don't ask people for their why.

I ask for the, who do you wanna be when, when you cross that finish line? What do you want people to say about you? Right? How, how do you want to be remembered? What is, you know, your epitaph, right? Is that the right word? I may be up there at the end of your life, right? When people are standing around and, and growing up preacher's kid, I spent a lot of time at Memorial Services and funerals and, and so that thought settled deep in me early on, right?

As, as I thought about that. Cause I listened to these people fumble for words and for some people it was so easy, right? But I never heard anybody say, oh, when he was a great employee, he worked really hard and made us a lot of money and never heard anybody say, and all he ever wanted to do was put in a few extra hours here and there.

Right? I, I listened to people recount what was important, what mattered to that person as they got later in life. And, and it, it was [00:35:00] very eyeopening. And so I was talking to a guy the other day and he started with that same question of who, who do you want to be at the end? Who is that person? Because you have to start there because you gotta know what you're building towards.

You gotta reverse engineer things. It's about being intentional. That's the other big thing. Cause if you don't know that, you're should be drifting. I love the river example of a meta metaphor of a river. There we go. And you know, you've got something dead in the river. It'll float. It's moving. Look, I'm moving.

It's just dead. It's just floating down the river. If you're swimming somewhere. You're alive, but it's work. And so you've gotta actually be intentional to swim where you want to get to, or you're gonna end up at the dead seat. That sounds highly unpleasant. I, I worked on a ranch. We had a dead pile. Yeah. I, I worked on a cattle ranch and we, we would just take out dead things and skin it back so the dogs could eat it and throw it in the dead pile and, and our ranch dogs would eat it.

Our IES will clean up stuff around the property when things die too. I, [00:36:00] I've seen that. So you have to start with the foundation guys. What about principles? Let's start with some basic principles about what. It is to be a man that is strong. Okay, so I think a lot of guys have this notion that strength is affecting others.

And I want to offer to you that I think strength is control and mastery over myself. And here's what I mean by that. M a strong man is one that says, this is what I will do, and then I do it in every aspect of life. Now, men and women are different. I've already stepped on a few political trails. I'll keep going.

When a man makes his word, makes a commitment, make a, you know, says, I'll do this and makes a promise. If he does not fulfill that promise, he becomes weaker. This isn't like just a, a, a muscle tissue thing. This is who am I this fundamental core being of Michael. If I commit that, I will be [00:37:00] here, and exceptions happen, crazy things happen, but if it's just because I just slacked off or I forgot, or I did something weak, I become weaker.

That's not necessarily true for women. Women have a totally different psychology to play here, but as a man, the strength that I'm talking about here is the ability to decide this is going to be what I'm going to do, this is what I'm going to be, and then to do it. How does that manifest? It manifests in the four different realms physically.

Are you building towards physical health? And that may mean different things. If you have a serious medical condition, you may not be going to the gym. You may be like, what do I need to do to start working on the serious medical condition? If you are terribly overweight, you may be like, okay, I need to lose weight.

If not, like, what is it you can do to better yourself physically? Same thing emotionally. How do you be strong emotionally, an emotionally strong man? He is one who, if he's married, his wife can come out and do the feminine thing that all of his husbands love so much when they go blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Tons of words. Tons of words, big words, scary words, loud words, [00:38:00] angry words, throws all these words at us, and an emotionally strong man can sit there, can weather that storm, not allowed to knock him off balance and say, honey, I love you. I see it as a lot going on right now. How can I help the emotionally weak man?

Ah, you say these things, I get mad at you, and in the moment, that might even feel strong, but that's weakness. Similarly, intellectually. An intellectually strong man is always going, growing and learning. He's curious. He's like, what can I read? How do I get my, how do I better myself in the intellectual capacity?

I've talked to men before who like to say, Michael, I don't read, and I say, oh man, I'm sorry. Do you also not eat food? Because the reality is, You intellectually become what you read, what you consume. Audio books are fine. YouTube videos of instructional stuff, that's fine too, but find something intellectual to consume to better yourself.

And the last component, and I think this is important, we have to have something of a [00:39:00] metaphysical reality. For me, that's faith. For a lot of people, especially through most of the time, that's been faith, but you have to have something, some reason to exist beyond what you see right here. And the reality is we all have this.

It's not always faith. I think the reason why agnosticism is so much more popular than true atheism. Is because we're reluctant to let go of what we know as a deeper inner sense that we need something bigger. But whatever that is, whatever you believe that is to be true, dig into it. Learn, grow, become stronger, cuz as you have these core, core values, these different parts of your life.

As you become stronger, here's the secret, they spill over to each other. If you say, I've committed to improving some major health problem. As you gain that traction, it helps you be more strong emotionally. It helps you become more strong intellectually, and it helps you be more strong in your faith. And all these are connected, but a strong man is not the guy who walks up to somebody and forces them to his will.

The strong man is the one who looks in the mirror and forces himself to follow his will. And the reality is, if you're able [00:40:00] to do that, You don't have to force other people cause they'll naturally want to follow you.

There's a lot to unpack in that. Yeah. There is there, there is. There is one of the things you, when you were talking about being intellectually strong, I thought, yeah, intellectually strong men can be challenged and that's okay. Yes. You can say something that I don't agree with and I can go, huh. That's an interesting perspective.

I, I, I gotta think about that for a little while. Roll that through a few times. Right. It doesn't make you angry. I, I get so frustrated these days, right? We used to be better at having a difference of opinion and being able to talk about that, and that to me is a dying art in the modern world where I can think something, you can think something we can disagree and we can talk about it.

And I can respect you even more because we talked about it, but I don't have to agree with you, right. We become intellectually weak as, as men and [00:41:00] women these days with this, well, you have to believe like I believe, or you have to think what I think, or you're wrong or you're hateful. Right? We, we've just got into name calling instead of being intellectually strong and going, huh, you know, I'm, I don't know that I agree with that.

I respect that you have your opinion and I'm willing to talk about that. I'm willing to, you know, look, Let, let's, let's have that discussion. Where is this coming from? Right. And actually have a discussion, have a thought. But we, we've gotten away from that. So I, I love the intellectually strong because I think it's something that's hurting us in a massive way as men especially.

We need to be able to talk, we need to be able to communicate openly. And challenge each other, right? We go back to the adage of the Bible, iron sharpens iron. Right? Those conversations make us better. They make us smarter. Those challenges breed growth. [00:42:00] Sarah just said in the comments so I, I love that concept.

I'm big into ownership. Do you think that plays a role? Absolute ownership is keeping your word because it's your word to yourself. Your we're just saying, when we make a commitment to herself, we say, I want to act in a certain way. I have failed to act in that way in this situation. That's ownership. I'm taking ownership for how I acted and what role and contributions I act contributed.

Now, one of the things I wanna touch on is one of the biggest, I think, areas of struggle for men is we've redefined things since post World War ii, right? World War ii. I heard this explained once really well, and it just like everything clicked for me. When someone explained it to me during World War ii.

The men were away for so long fighting in such horrible, horrible conditions and horrible interactions, right? The women [00:43:00] had to step in and take on some of the things that were normally considered more masculine roles, right? They got into the workforce more. They started taking care of things at home, more like lawn and stuff, and fixing things around the house, right?

Because the men were off at war. Now, I know some women were in the war. I'm not, but, right. So we have a generation of people coming through who the women had to step up and then the men came home and they just wanted to be done with conflict. Right. That generation was just like, we, we've been in conflict for a long time.

We're we're ready to not fight. And so they came home and they started to do something and the woman at home went, oh, I'll take care of that. And he went, oh, okay. Sure you can do that. Right. Didn't want conflict. There was no point. Sure. Whatever. Right. And in that we've bred down through the next couple generations, this change in the mental space of predefined roles.

I think a lot of men are really struggling at [00:44:00] this point in history with what is my role? Because, well, yeah, there are the traditional roles, right, of provide, protect reside, but. That's not the way all families work. There are a lot of women who make as much or more than their husbands. There are as a lot of co-parenting now, it's not just enough to provide for your family, right?

Men are active examples for their children and spending time with their children and being involved in their education and all kinds of stuff. That didn't happen two generations back, and I think a lot of men are really struggling for if all this has changed, what is my role now? Who I Right. As part of that identity.

Who am I? What, what is that role? Where do I fit in my family in this modern world? You have any thoughts you wanna share? Yeah, I, I think I first want to note that in some ways I think there are some good things that have come from a bit of challenge to the rigid roles that existed before. Here's what I mean by [00:45:00] that.

I think there's a great good that men bring to children. This is a great example and that I, I've read a great deal about how. A child should ideally run to mom for comfort. Turn around, run to dad for challenge, get a little too much challenge, run back to mom for comfort, have a little too much comfort.

Run back to dad for challenge. And there was a lot of generations where dad was completely gone and that dynamic push pull relationship with the children. Didn't flourish cuz dad just wasn't there. Now that said, while there is value there, I think what we've lost sight of concurrently is the idea of masculinity and femininity.

And so I wanted to define this a little bit here, how I look at this. Think of this like electrical charge. If you have a positive and a negative, right, the two attract. And if you have a positive and a positive, they repulse. This is just the nature of electronics. This is also the nature of masculine and feminine.

So when women step into a masculine energy, Another man in mask is actually repulsion there. And so you have this tension there where it's just not the natural state of things to be. And so what we need to always remember is men the consequence for drawing women into the men, into [00:46:00] the mask energy, in addition to the fact that the attraction will.

Not be there in the bedroom as well, which is an important thing for guys. It's also that the, the down, the, the balance and the dance is pushed off in the marriage, and so I have no trouble at all with women who want to earn a lot of money. My wife at this moment actually earns more money than I do.

That's okay, because the broader role is set that my core role in our marriage is to be masculine and her core role in the marriage to be feminine. Another metaphor. Imagine a rocky beach side, you know, maybe the Oregon coast, and these big waves are coming in. The tides are swirling around, but these big powerful rocks are sitting there enduring the waves.

The rocks are the masculine and the waves of the feminine. You read about the historic, his historical perspective of the masculine is order and the feminine is chaos. And understand that there's no insult on either side of that. Both those two are necessary. Each brings something critical to the table that we need for children, for family, for culture, for society, for governance.

Both those are critical. [00:47:00] But identifying each of those roles. And so if you're in a situation like I am where your wife makes more role, makes more money that doesn't absolve you of being the rock and the family decisions, and here's how that looks practically, we we make this decision, we check in regularly.

Is this still What's right for the family is still, this was what for a marriage, how do I as Michael need to step into the moment she's done with her business job? She collapses back into the, that collapses reverts back to the feminine direction. Back to the feminine energy. And then how do I take the lead and say, yes, this is it.

It's like dancing. If you had swing East Coast, swing two leads, no dance happens. We both raised our right hand. Nobody's spinning. Right? That's no fun. We are in an epidemic of women and men, especially within marriage. Losing the dance, they lose the dance outside the bedroom. They lose the dance inside the bedroom.

Here's the reality. Both still wanna dance. Men wanna be masculine. Women want to be feminine, and if they're not dancing with you, eventually there's a chance they may dance with somebody else, and that leads [00:48:00] to a lot of problems. So whatever your situation there is, understand the role. I don't care who's taking care of the kids.

I don't care who's making the money. I care about how are you within your marriage? Are you the rock? Are you being that pillar for your wife? Are you making yourself stronger physically, emotionally, intellectually, spiritually, so that you can stand firm, be that partner for her so she can then become feminine?

Cuz the woman won't go feminine if she doesn't feel your stability. If she doesn't feel you as a man, your, your, your predictability. She will go feminine. And that's, I think what it's where the real problems come in. Sorry, she won't go feminine. That's when the real problems come in. Excellent guys. Now if you're getting something out of this, be sure to do all that good social media nonsense that you know, I hate.

Leave us a review, push the like button. Leave us a comment. I'd love to hear your thoughts on the show and what Michael's sharing with us. But do all that good stuff. It helps us to reach more people and I'm always appreciative of that. So Michael, I like takeaways, right? So we're gonna move into that [00:49:00] portion of the show.

What are three steps for our listeners right now to start to implement this journey? To set their foundations and become the men they want to be? If you're a man who is not living this point of strength, immediately find friends who are, or at least on that journey, here's how you'll know. You sit down, your buddy says, how's it going?

You say, great, great, great. Your buddy stops and looks at you and says, no. How's it really going? There's a challenge. Have you ever thought about the phrase as iron sharpens iron? Just imagine that iron, friction and iron creates a lot of sparks, a lot of heat, a lot of, a lot of energies there. It's not comfortable to be that piece of iron, and so the modern man tends to shy away from those sort of relationships cuz it hurts.

It's embarrassing. Find those friends who will challenge you because that is the fastest thing you do. If you can't find them, find a coach, find someone else, find a senior at church. Find someone that will challenge you. Become step number two. Don't give in to the lies of [00:50:00] the world. Here's how the world tricks you.

The world fills your Facebook feed, fills, your Instagram feed, fills your whatever. All the social media stuff, I hate it too. It fills that with the lie that you can have it all and that what the world is selling is enough. All sorts of reasons why it doesn't matter. This is a lie. You need relationships.

The human being is built for relationships, for that dance, for that connection. So don't buy that lie and resolve to choose a target and work towards it. But number three, don't do this alone. And this is different than friendship cuz we can be with friends and still feel like we're alone. Here's what I really mean by don't do it alone.

Take the risk to be intimate. To be vulnerable. You would be surprised how often I have a group coaching program. And guys in this program, they'll, they'll struggle to admit this thing's going wrong in my life. And they'll just, they'll say it finally and they'll look around and they'll expect that everyone else hates them with, with Zachary eyes of death.

But it's the exact opposite. Everyone else looks in and basically says, yeah, me too. Yeah, me too. That's me right now. That's me. And there's [00:51:00] this fear in men that we can't share. Even if we're being challenged. Cause we're the only one who has this problem. But the reality is we all have the same set of problems.

We all have the same fears, we all have the same weaknesses. Share them with other guys, share them in certain conditions with your wife. Your wife is not the iron that sharpens your iron. What different type of relationship there? Find those guys that can. All right. What's next for Michael? You know, that's a good question.

I, I really have. It's such an interesting past going from the PhD chemist to the life coaching thing. I, I think when I look at what's next for me, there's a couple points of growth that I've really got to do and I, I'll, I'll throw myself on the bus here. I've gotta lose some weight. There's a couple spots of my own strength that I have to keep working on.

But then what I'd really love to do is if I can get this formula that I'm working on here dialed in, right? For guys, I love to really spread it a lot wider. Right now, my impact is limited to somewhat, I think, and, and I see this as. I'm gonna have to go into the faith here. I [00:52:00] see as an opportunity where God is bringing me into this position in a moment when our world is so crazy and so desperate for the truth, that we have a lot of amazing secular self-help material out there, and there's a big gap in baptizing that material and bringing it into the faith, and that's the gap I see myself targeting to fill.

Okay, where's the best place for people to find you? So, I'm a Catholic. I am. That is part of my identity. That's part of who I am. So towards that end, you can find me by typing Catholic Life Coach for Men. Website name, podcast name. Find me, listen to some episodes. If you're all curious, if what I'm talking about here can help you, there's a free sign up button to sign up for an entire hour.

I'll pour into your life. You get to check it out. You to call me crazy. The reality is you bring some to some Kleenex, some tissue paper with you cause there's a decent chance you might be crying by the end of it. Cuz all of us men are hurting so badly. But give it a shot. You got nothing to lose. Check it out.

Catholic Life Coach Ferment. [00:53:00] We'll have all of Michael's links, just like always guys down in the show notes and in the description, whatever platform you're enjoying the show on, we will make sure that you can find Michael. Now, the question on the show was, what is the term for a group of turkeys? Is it a rafter, a gobble, a clutch, or a roast?

You said clutch? The answer is rafter. Ah, I, I see. I look him up. I never would've gotten that. I would've been like I a roast dinner. So well free Samer. If your turkeys need coaching, I'm probably not the right guy for it. Michael, as we wrap up the show, what is the most important thing you want people to take away today?

Do something. The average guy is drifting. The average guy is content to be comfortable. Don't settle for comfort because you will drift into a place that you hate later, 20 years down the road. Do it now. If you don't believe me. Find someone 20 years older than you and look in their eyes as you ask them.

Did this work out for you? Do something today, guys, on that note. [00:54:00] Thanks for taking the time to hang out with us. Be better tomorrow because of what you do today and we'll see you on the next one. This has been the Fallible Man Podcast. Your home for everything, man, husband, and father. Be sure to subscribe so you don't miss a show.

Head over to www the fallible man.com for more content and get your own fallible man here.