Money, Music and "Making It": Sam Warshaw Shares How to Achieve Real Freedom

Allen C. Paul 0:00
Hey, my friend Allen Paul of God and Gigs here. And before you jump into this great episode, I have a time sensitive announcement that I wanted to share with you. There is a free workshop that's happening in just a couple of days that will help you start your online business. Now, what do I mean by that? I don't just mean any get rich quick scheme. I'm talking about something that helped God and Gigs get started and something that aligns perfectly with the our values of helping creatives to build better lives from the inside out. And it is a four day free workshop on how to start your online business. It's run by Shane Sam's, my friend, who is the leader of flipped lifestyle. I'm telling you, this training revolutionized my life and my business, and it will do the same for you. And it's four days free, two different times to take this workshop each day so that you don't have to miss a single one. And I'm telling you, this is going to help you get over the hump from thinking to doing the thing that God has blessed you to do and earning a living with your passions, with your creative gift, or with your knowledge. Just go to Godandgigs.com. Flipyourlife you can also find that link right here in the description of this episode. Once again, Godandgigs.com Flipyourlife. This workshop is free, but the information is absolutely priceless. So get more information and sign up@godengage.com. Flipyourlife now, let's jump into today's episode. Imagine this. You're a musician right out of college, getting ready to take on the world and enter into the music industry. You've got dreams and aspirations of making it big, but you've got a huge, huge obstacle in front of you. You've got a debt. And this debt is not just any debt. It's a debt of over $400,000, almost $500,000. How are you possibly going to make it as a musician and pay anything that's of any substantial amount toward this debt on, um, what most people think is an insecure job? Well, you're going to talk to someone who overcame that and along with his wife, was able to pay off that almost a half a million dollars in debt as musicians and entrepreneurs. We're going to talk today to Sam Worshaw. He's the husband of Jade Warshaw, who has already been on our show, episode 169, and he's going to give his perspective as a musician, MD, worship leader, and an entrepreneur who was able to lead his family to be able to build a business based on character and respect and professionalism. And he's going to tell you what it takes to make such an incredible leap of faith to make a lifestyle as a musician work and still pay off all of that debt. This is an incredible interview. Please do not miss a second of it. Just give me a moment to welcome those of you who are new to God and gigs and then we'll get right into this powerful discussion.

Speaker B 03:05
Artists, musicians, and creatives of all kinds looking for help balancing your passion to create with your everyday life. Not sure if your faith can coexist with your profession? Welcome to a place where real artists discuss real life. You're listening to the God and Gig show. Visit Godandgigs.com for show notes, links, and more information.

Allen C. Paul 03:27
Hello and welcome to our show. Thank you so much for making this podcast a part of your creative day. And if you are new to God and Gigs, you are in the right place at the right time. And let me explain why. Number one. My name is Allen C. Paul. I'm a musician. I'm a creative coach and an author. And God and Gigs is here to help you to solve those nagging creative problems in your life with timeless spiritual principles. We help you connect the dots between your spiritual life and your creative life. And we help you become the best creative you can be from the inside out. And that's whether you're a musician, an entrepreneur, a content creator, anyone in the intersection of the arts and entertainment space. And you may have a church position, you may be working in a ministry, but you also probably are working outside of it. And we help you bridge the gap between those two worlds. So make sure you subscribe and follow, and make sure that you realize that this is your tribe. That's why you need to stay connected. This interview is absolutely a sterling example of the kind of people that we are, uh, blessed to be around in the garden Gigs community. Now, this is one of our amazing episodes where I get to say I've already had a connection with this gentleman's family because Jade Warshaw, Sam Warshaw's wife, has already been on the show. But today we're talking with the man of the house, Sam Worshaw. Now, Sam Warshaw is the owner of Warshaw Entertainment, which is a full service talent booking agency for cruise ships and productions. He's an established amazing musician who has worked all over the world with major acts. And he is also, as you heard at the beginning of the intro, the husband of this amazing woman, Jade Warshaw. And they have been part of the Ramsay Show family now for the last few months as I'm recording. And they have been right there showing this route through the Financial Peace University and the Dave Ramsay program to debt freedom when they paid off almost a half a million dollars in debt. So you might say to yourself, whoa, whoa, whoa, wait a minute. I heard it in the intro, and I still don't believe it.

Allen C. Paul 05:42
Now, you can go back to episode 169 to hear Jade's telling this story from her perspective and how they built this, um, massive, massive wave of energy and discipline in order to pay off their debt. But now you're going to hear it from Sam's perspective. And Sam, while he was right alongside Jade, also has the incredible insight of a musician who was running bands, who was creating this vehicle for them to pay off this debt while staying solidly inside the musical circle. And he's going to show you how he built a business, how he was able to stay focused on being a musician and yet making the income and being a person of character that would get the positions and then eventually hire people that would be able to fill those same roles and continue them on their debt free journey. So I'm telling you, there's really nothing I can share in this episode that's not going to be touched on by Sam. How they kept their marriage together and stayed focused, how they got their finances together, the character and the discipline it took to build a business that was eventually able to pay off this debt, and how he feels now as a creative after doing all the work and seeing the rewards. Like I said, my friend, this interview from Sam is one of the touchstone points of the Golden Geek Show. I'm so glad you get to hear it. I'm going to move out of the way and let you hear him for yourself. Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you Sam Warsaw.

Allen C. Paul 07:17
Ladies and gentlemen, if there is one person that just absolutely exemplifies everything that God and gigs is about, it's my guest today. Now, I'm actually getting to meet him and talk to him after talking to his better half, but I'm going to get the other side of the story today. Sam Worshaw, welcome to The God and Gig Show. How are you?

Sam Warshaw 07:39
Good. Thanks, man. Thanks for having me on.

Allen C. Paul 07:40
As I mentioned, uh, it's not often I get to hear two sides of a power couple, the wife and the husband. But your wife has already been on the show, so she's kind of introduced us to your world, but we get to hear it from you. You have an incredible story of your own, and then when you combine your two stories, it really is something that I can't wait to tell my audience here, that everybody's listening all about it from your side of the story. But I always do the 32nd elevator pitch just for convention's sake. So you can just tell them who you are in, like a nutshell, something that you'd like them to know about you right off the top.

Sam Warshaw 08:17
My name is Sam Warshaw. My wife and I own an entertainment agency called Warshaw Entertainment. We provide entertainment primarily to the cruise ship entertainment industry and, um, we've been in the cruise industry about 17 years. We performed on board as headliners for about 14 years. Full time touring 35 weeks a year, give or take. So, yeah, that's the main thing we've done over the years. Um, I was also a musical director at a church in South Florida called Church by the Glades for about a decade. Recently, we relocated to Nashville. Uh, my wife is now a Ramsay personality, and how that ended up happening is a whole another story.

Allen C. Paul 08:57
I'm telling you, that is the part that I don't know how we could even get started without just starting from the end and working our way back to the beginning. Maybe that's the best way to do it, because sometimes we start from the beginning and we try to say, okay, well, how in the world did you all get to the point that you are? But let's just start with the fact that you just said you are, uh, moved to Nashville. Now you guys are relocating. So just tell me a little bit about how life is happening right now. What's surprising you right now?

Sam Warshaw 09:24
All of it's a surprise for those people who don't know. Ramsay Solutions, uh, is a place. Dave Ramsay owns it. And basically, um, they've created or dave has created a system of baby steps in order to get you financially free and ultimately build wealth. And, man, I feel like we got to start at the beginning to end up where we are. Otherwise, it doesn't make sense. Yeah.

Allen C. Paul 09:51
I just love it, though, because I like looking at what people say, I had no idea I was going to end up here. Right. And that's kind of like, why I mentioned that. Like, the surprise and seeing that transition to the point where you are right now. Because some people will look at the beginning and they will never realize that you could make it to where you are now and still be surprised. Not saying that you've made it, but saying that this is a continuous journey. So that's why I mentioned that, hey, even where you're at now, it's like it's starting all over again. It's a whole new chapter of your life.

Sam Warshaw 10:21
It is. I mean, long story short, when Jade and I graduated college, um, we looked up, we had just got married, and we realized one day I was checking my credit report, and I realized we had $460,000 of debt. So suspiciously close to half a million. Most of that was student loans. My student loans. My stupidity. I went to Berkeley. I did what everybody told me to do. I got caught up in wanting to be a certain kind of musician and have a certain kind of school name next to me. And it was a big price tag. And, um, when we looked up and realized that we had that debt, it was overwhelming. And, um, it was crushing, to be honest. And, um, from that point, we were 23 at the time when we realized what we had ahead of us, we didn't have a plan. We didn't know what we were going to do. We knew we were going to be musicians. But there's a lot that goes into that, right? Most people are like, how are you even going to make a living? And my thought was, how are we going to pay off a half a million dollars and live? And, basically, that's a big part of our journey, of why we have this business, why we've performed the way we have, the relationships we built. A lot of it was digging out of this hole. Back in 2017, uh, we went on the Ramsay Show, and we did what they call a debt free scream, it took us seven years, but we paid off every cent of that debt using Dave's principles. Paid off $460,000. All with music.

Allen C. Paul 11:56
Okay. Yeah, that's the part that's why I was like, okay, because you almost have to look at the entire like you said, start from the beginning, but just look at the entire thing. Now they can go back to episode 169 if they want to hear Jade tell you some of the story, because she mentions about starting in college, how she was actually in sports, I believe, but also was then moving into music, and you starting in music. So you just hit the nail on the head. Music being the thing that you guys decided to build on. Like, here's the part I would have said, okay, we've got a half a million dollars in debt. The music is going to have to wait. We're going to have to go get real jobs on top of that. So tell me why it was that you were able to tell yourself we're going to stick with our plan to be musicians and use that to take on, uh, this massive amount of debt.

Sam Warshaw 12:43
Well, I mean, there's a couple short answers to it. One, I spent my whole life studying music. It was the thing I loved. It was the thing I dreamt of. It was who I wanted to be. I wanted to be I studied in college to be a bass player. And a lot of people tell you when you're going to be a musician. Oh, got, uh, to have a backup plan.

Allen C. Paul 13:02
Yeah. Plan B.

Sam Warshaw 13:03
Plan B. And in my mind, a backup plan is a plan to fail. You're either going all in or you're not doing it. And I also realize that being a successful musician doesn't mean that you are Prince or Michael Jackson or you're a megastar. You can make a really good living, and you don't even have to play with that person to make a really good living. Um, I just realized that that was possible. And another thing, why I stuck to music and Jade and I stuck to music is, for me, personally, I realized at a very young age, I could not work for somebody else. I couldn't go get a job and make $50,000 a year. I would be so miserable. So we just bet on ourselves. And, um, in my mind, there was no other choice. I took out these student loans to be a musician. I better freaking use my skill set, uh, to pay this off.

Allen C. Paul 13:53
Yeah, as soon as you said that no, plan B. I thought back to I think I saw on your Instagram when you posted Kobe saying something like that about going all in and not going back. Now, musicians, we have, again, like you. Said, this passion to create. We all love it.

Allen C. Paul 14:09
You are a phenomenal musician in your own right, and you just said it that you don't necessarily have to play with print. You did, though, rub shoulders and get to be in some circles with some of these great musicians. So tell me, what are some of the lessons you learned as you became a professional, as you start to build on the thing where you said you don't want to work for anybody else? So, correct me if I'm wrong, you've always been an independent musician, you've always built your own businesses, you've never had to get a label or anything like that. It's always been building your own business.

Sam Warshaw  14:39
Well, yes. Well, first of all, when it comes to the music industry, me personally selling records, I want nothing to do with it. It's, um, a thing of the past. I feel like if you get a million people to look at anything you do, you should at least make a million dollars. And when you a, uh, million streams is equivalent to about $2,500. I want nothing to do with that. Now, as far as being an independent musician or whatever, and a business owner, like I said, my wife and I, we started in the cruise industry. Uh, we came out of college. I had been doing a lot of studio work for bigger artists, and I was making good money. And this is around 2008, 2008 comes, a lot of studios closed, and we were looking for our next step. And I knew we wanted to work together. And so we both auditioned for Royal Caribbean. We got jobs with Royal Caribbean and that was a great experience. I was in the orchestra, which is like a show band. And the main thing about that gig is site reading. So you're getting a different show every night. Your reading chops have to be like, top notch. And I'm a big believer in maximizing the opportunity that you have in front of me, being a good steward of whatever that is. And so we saw there's another opportunity within the cruise ship industry that we wanted to do, and that was called headlining. That's where you have your own show and you perform it in the ship's theater. That could be 1500 seats to 2500 seat theater. These people don't necessarily know who you are, but the point is, you're doing your own show, you're making good money, and you're, uh, only performing one night during the cruise. And so this sounded like, really like, okay, this is the next thing we need to do. Yeah, this is where betting on yourself. Being resourceful, that's a big thing I value is being resourceful. That's where this comes into play. Because in order to have your own show, you have to have charts for a nine piece band, you have to have tracks. You got to have click. I didn't know how to do any of that stuff, but I said, I'm going to figure it out. And so I started figuring out how to make charts, and then I started getting into tracking and blah, blah, blah. And Jade had to become who she had to become in order to engage an audience as a solo person on a stage with a band behind her, this well crafted show. And so we both had to dig in, learn whole new skill sets. And we did. And there was a big learning curve. But we finally got to a point where we had a show. We ended up doing a Whitney Houston tribute show. And we got that show to a point where it was performing. We were performing it, like I said, 35, 40 weeks a year. And we were going that hard again, because we were trying to pay off this debt. We loved what we did. But, um, if you do that math, I mean, we were gone all the time. It's amazing. But it's a grind, too. All that travel. We would fly all around the globe. We've performed in 92 countries, and that's a blessing. But that's a lot of time on an airplane. So, uh, we just got to a point where we were like, okay, this is too much. There's got to be a better way to earn a living than just performing. Because as a performer, you're only as good as your last show as a vocalist. I've learned being married to one, the air conditioning is too cold, warm, too whatever. The voice is gone, right? And it was like, that's really high pressure to live like that your whole life. And so through church and other places, we've learned about leadership. And one of the things about leadership is duplicating yourself. And, uh, we just thought, okay, again, back to maximizing the opportunity in front of you. We thought, okay, we're here. We've kind of reached the peak or the ceiling of what you can do performance wise within the cruise ship industry, which is headlining. What else can we do around here? And so I started looking around. I realized I didn't like the caliber of musician I had consistently. I'd go ship to ship, cruise line to cruise line, and I thought, this could be better. And so we had a dinner one night. We said Jade said to me, well, why don't we create an agency and start hiring musicians? Easy idea to execute.

Allen C. Paul 18:50
Yeah, easy to say, but I got.

Sam Warshaw 18:51
A whole another thing. And that started a journey of probably three or four years of trying to create an agency out of nothing, which we then did. And now we've been active as an agency for eight years. I've got about 125 musicians working, and, um, I don't hardly perform at all anymore. I play at church because I want to. Um, but taking that pressure off of, like, if you get sick, no money that night.

Allen C. Paul 19:21
Trading time for money, like you said, the grind. I was just thinking you answered my question before I had a chance to ask it, which is, how do you build the mentality and the drive not just to be a performer and to raise your level in terms of performance and musicianship like you said, grinding and figuring out how to be a band leader, how to be the MD, how Jade had to be the feature artist, but then to become the manager and to become the business type. And what I think a lot of us, our musician friends, are listening, but they don't realize is the same. Tell me if I'm wrong. The same discipline you have to apply to become an MD is the same discipline you have to apply to become a management or an agency owner, a business owner. And then you mentioned church. So that's the other question I asked. So tell me, what did you learn from your experiences at church and your faith that helped you level up?

Sam Warshaw 20:14
Oh, gosh, that's a loaded question. Well, let me go back to the first part as a musician. I think there's this fairytale thing in people's minds of, like, um, I'm going to be a vocalist, or I'm going to be a piano player, and I'm just going to work. And the thing people don't realize is, yes, you're a musician, but really you're an entrepreneur.

Allen C. Paul 20:33
Okay, okay.

Sam Warshaw 20:34
Self employed. I mean, it is what it is. And the thing you're selling is you all the time. Right. People don't realize that. And so if you want to get hired, you got to sell yourself. And that also means, like, doing the bare minimum, aside from playing, showing up, being prepared, you want to own a business, it's the same mentality, it's the same mindset, except you're not selling yourself at this point. Now I'm selling the dream of working full time as a musician, and I'm trying to get musicians to buy into that. Uh, sometimes they don't believe it, or they don't think it's for them or whatever. But that's what I'm selling now is, hey, you say you want to be a musician? Come on, let's go. Let's go live the dream. Play music at night and be at the beach during the day. That sounds pretty good to me. I've been there, I've done that. It's great. And then on the other side, when I'm, um, quote, unquote, um, selling to the cruise lines, it's just, hey, we say what we're going to do, and I'm only going to give you what I believe in as far as talent goes and things like that. So, yes, there's selling on that side. But at the end of the day, as a musician, you have to realize you're an entrepreneur flat out. You don't work for somebody, because even if you play for a big time artist, guess what? When that artist is done, you're done. So the cycle starts all over again. You got to figure it out. And the ones who do well, the people who do well are the ones that understand 80% of the gig is not about the playing. It's about, can you have a conversation with someone and be cool? Um, do you have a get it factor or a self awareness about yourself? Don't be weird.

Allen C. Paul 22:13
Oh, gosh. That is the one statement that I wish we could say to all the musicians and artists and creatives. Like, all of us, we are creative, so we get it right. You just said it's like an it factor. There's a uniqueness that you got to have, but you also got to have interpersonal relationship skills along with your uniqueness that doesn't make it impossible for you to work with.

Sam Warshaw 24:19
Yeah, I mean, I feel like as a musician, artist, whatever, creative, you have to balance your creativity with a linear side of yourself. Uh, I feel like few people get to be just so creative and so in the clouds and do whatever they want because somehow they lucked out and they have this whole team around them. But unless you're that person, you have to have a side of yourself that's like on planet Earth, you know what I mean?

Allen C. Paul 24:49
Yes. And grounded.

Sam Warshaw 24:50
That's grounded. And that checks their bank and does normal stuff. That's very important. Uh, you got to have a good balance of both. And I have found that the linear part of me has been more valuable than the creative part. The creative part of me, I almost feel like I've learned my role within music, and that is an artist. My wife, whoever, says, hey, I want to do this, blah, blah, blah, and I say, okay, I'll make it happen. That's the linear part. That's like, okay, I know the steps that I need to do. I need to arrange this. I need to chart this, blah, blah, blah, whatever that is. Um, you just give me the creative idea. Um, so I found that that's been my strength. But creativity is a great thing, too, but you have to keep it at a level that's out of the cloud so that you can explain what it is you want to do. You know what I mean? Absolutely.

Allen C. Paul 25:44
And I love the fact that you're talking about the linear. I think about my wife. My wife is a very managerial type person, but she's also a singer. She wants nothing to do with the performance side, though. But when we do work together and this is one of the things I'd love to dig into the whole topic, but working with your wife in that creative managerial business, owning a business together. When my wife tells me, hey, I want to sing a song, I talk. Like you just talk.

Allen C. Paul 26:07
I go linear. I say, treat me like I'm, um, just an accompanist. Don't treat me like I'm your because one of us has to be the one to actually play these chords and figure this out. You can have all these great ideas, but I need to treat you just like I would treat any other singer and say, what do you want? How fast? How slow? What key? And just make it very simple so I can give you what you ask for. As an artist, I need the steps step by step by step by step. Like you said, if we're both heading the clouds and think, oh, we're going to make this beautiful song, one of us has to actually execute it. And that's why I would love to touch on it just a little bit, because, yeah, I mean, marriage is just a whole nother topic, right? But how has that worked with you and Jade just being co owners, co entrepreneurs, and then also, of course, keeping your marriage intact?

Sam Warshaw 26:53
We always worked together until six months ago. So we worked together for 1516 years in everything. We did Church by the Glades as headliners and as business owners. And each one of those areas was different. It took me a long time to wrestle the fact both of our names were on the marquee for headlining, and I was in the photo with her. But people would not acknowledge me because they don't know what the audience know what I'm doing back there.

Allen C. Paul 27:21
Back yeah.

Sam Warshaw 27:22
At that time, Jade asked me to play piano in our, uh, Whitney Houston show because I was a bass player. No one definitely knows what I'm doing back there. And so she was like, you'll be more out front. It'll be a feature part of the show. David Foster did so much of that Whitney Houston music, so I learned how to play piano for that show and even after that. To get back to your question, learning your role and understanding your role within whatever you're doing is really important. Like I said, it took me a long time to not be, oh, I get so frustrated. And the bitterness would come up because it's like, dude, do you see what I just did? I did all this crap. Okay, can I get some love? But the show is not about me or the musicians. It's about the vocalist. I mean, it is what it is. You just have to realize that. And once I came to grips with that, Jade and I, our relationship within a show context got a lot better because I was content with my role. It was fine, it was good. With a business, that's a whole different thing, because you both have different strengths and weaknesses. And that's not performing. That's figuring out. Relationships with other people and who does what better. So that's a lot of back and forth that we had to figure out. And it just turned out that I was more the lead in the business. Um, and she deferred to me more in the business, as opposed to me deferring more to her with the show, because she was the face of the show. Um, and then at Church by the Glades, we both worked there, but we had different areas. I ran the band and she ran the creative stuff, so I understood that she came up with the ideas. And part of what I did was execute that musically. So there wasn't much of a push and pull there. It was just like, okay, these are the roles they're defined. Good, let's do it.

Allen C. Paul 29:20
That's powerful, though, because you just talked about roles, and it does think mirror musicianship. And it's amazing that I say we because I also have a, uh, wife who's in business with me. We get to figure out, okay, as an accompanist, like I just mentioned, and you as an accompanist on keys and bass and MD, your job is kind of like the float to the background, but then your job is essential. Without you, the whole thing falls apart. Right. And in business and in life and doing something amazing, doing something that levels you up, you have to know your role. You have to stay in your lane, and you got to be secure in that. Just like as a musician, when you're the drummer, you have to realize that this is your role. And you may not get the accolades, and you may not get the solo, and you may not get to to jam out, you need to play the song. Like the song is staying rhythm, but that gets you the check, that gets you the gig, or eventually on the major tours, because you were faithful in your role and you didn't get mixed up or tried to step ahead. So I think the relationship thing, it comes back to that, right? It comes back to knowing who you are, what you do well, and doing it to the best of your ability, so that guys like you can say, hey, come on a cruise, make a lot of money, and one day you level up and you own your business. And you do the same thing that you did because you've lived it.

Sam Warshaw 30:34
Yeah. Even if you don't do a ship, that's fine, whatever. But, uh, the point is, you just have to understand whatever gig you're on, what your role is. And at the end of the day, at the end of all of it, which is, I think, uh, one of the most valuable lessons I ever learned as a performer, I figured out, is none of it's about you anyways. It's all about the audience. Because if there's no audience, you're just sitting in your room practicing. So you understanding what you are bringing to the stage and then sitting in that and doing your absolute best at it, when you project that out, the audience, whether they know exactly what you're doing or not, what's on the chart, did you make the chart, they don't know any of that. But they do know the way they feel. And if what you put in front of that band stand and how you rehearse these guys and how you did everything as an MD or how you're playing as a drummer, whatever, if you move the audience, you see someone crying out there, whatever it is, now you're actually doing what you're supposed to do. It's about the audience. It's not about you. And a lot of times we get it flipped as musicians, we think it's about us. It's not the end of the day if there's no audience. Just may as well be in your mom's basement at home, practice really understanding what your role is on stage and then just sitting in that and doing your best at it. I think that's where the money's at.

Allen C. Paul 32:03
Yeah, it's where the money is at. It's where the relationships and the people that actually like I said, I feel like this is all about not impressing people, but being the kind of person that people can count on, that person of character and a musician of character.

Sam Warshaw 32:15
I mean, you'll impress people by just doing what you said, what you are going to do, which is just integrity.

Allen C. Paul 32:20
Great word. Exactly. I wanted to ask, though, because, like you said, we went from the end to the beginning, and now we're coming back to around the end. So you start the agency, you begin to get these contracts, and all this time, like you said, you guys are pushing hard on this debt. So I kind of want you to give us you talked about the valley moment of seeing that, um, $460,000 in debt. Give me a mountaintop moment. I don't know if it's just a debt scream or something in between, where you started to say, oh, my gosh, this is happening. We're starting to make it. Like, give me one of those moments where maybe you and Jade, whether it was performing, whether it was a headline, what was the moment that you kind of hit that little mountaintop and you said, this is working. We're about to reach our goal. And how does that feel as a musician, doing that grind and then seeing that all these things that you're talking about are working in your favor?

Sam Warshaw 33:10
It's interesting. You sent me that question, the bottom. What was the bottom? What was the mountain? And I really was thinking about it. And for me, the mountaintop, I mean, yes, I was ready to jump out of my skin when we paid off that debt and when the agency came to life. But I've been in so many amazing environments and been in front of audiences a million of them withstanding Ovations and blah, blah, blah. But the mountaintop, for me, I was really thinking about it, and it's probably about a year and a half ago, we were in South Florida and we have two kids, and now they're about to be three and five. But at the time, they were like one and three. We had just taken my kid to a taekwondo class. And then afterwards we took both kids to go get pizza. And I was sitting there with Jade and both kids and they were eating. And I said to her, I was like, we're really doing this. We're doing this. And for me, that was just all this struggle as a musician, all this grind and climb and building and sacrifice to get out of debt and doing nothing for seven years except paying off this debt and working and working and working. And I looked up and I was like, we have this beautiful house. We don't owe anybody anything. We do whatever we want. We're free people. Our kids don't know any of the crap we've been through to get here. This is all right. We're really doing this. It was a small moment, but that to me, was better than being in front of any audience because performing is a vapor. Have you ever been in front of been in a room of 5000 people and it's, oh yeah, amazing team, the band crushing, whatever, then it's done. And then you're in your hotel room or you're at home and you're eating a sandwich. It's like, absolutely, uh, tomorrow I'm going to wake up and go to the gym. You know what I mean? It's just evaporates. It's a weird, it's a weird thing. It's easy to get caught up in and chase it over and over and over. I get that. But, um, as a musician, I think one of the most important things that you can have is a why. Why you're doing this. It's not an easy life for me and Jade. Part of that why was freedom. Freedom to be able to do what we wanted to do. Freedom to perform if we want or if we don't want. And in that moment at that pizza restaurant, I just looked up and I realized, wow, we have finally, we're free. We have no debt. We don't owe anyone anything. I don't work for anybody. I do what I want, when I want. And that, to me, is the mountaintop, not the performance. The performance is amazing. But if you've performed, you know, it's not just get up there and do a song, there's all this other crap that goes along with it, uh, in the background and rehearsal and yada yada and travel and all that. And it's great, but it is a vapor.

Allen C. Paul 36:26
I absolutely love this is one of the best answers I've ever heard, Sam, because here's one of the things, uh, that it sounds like I try to put myself in these things when it's all about really what you just shared. But I got to share this as musician and musician, what I realized over and over again as my kids are on the other side. How old are your kids, by the way?

Sam Warshaw 36:41
Out to be three and five.

Allen C. Paul 36:42
Oh, beautiful. See you're at the beginning. So I started early and I'm finishing early, so I just have one get married, um, in November. Let me tell you, brother, get ready. Because you think those last few years went by fast, and me being able to record the bridal march for my daughter in law, and watching her walk up the aisle and hearing my little roads playing best part as they walked up, it's the same thing. It's like, I would trade this for.

Allen C. Paul 37:15
 A million gigs for you. Name the artist. I don't care. Beethoven bach. Whatever. I don't care who it is. I would rather have this moment. And I think so many creatives need to musicians need to hear this. That that's the goal. The goal is not to chase the tours. The goal is, like you said, those moments are gone. And by the way, let's talk about the financial part real quick. Those gigs that ah, those big gigs. I've had so many interviews, brother, with people who play those big gigs, and then they're not fiscally responsible. Not only is it a vapor with the fame and the popularity, but the money and the prestige they think they're going to get as a vapor as well. So, uh, if they don't really see what's really important, all of that stuff just disappears and they end up with nothing at the end.

Sam Warshaw 38:01
Well, you know, okay, the money side, that's a whole nother topic. Musicians are notoriously bad for handling money, whether they dollars or $10,000.

Allen C. Paul 38:10
I just use an example of something. Again, that where people think that this equals success, right?

Sam Warshaw 38:15
I mean, once I turned into an adult and I was really in this music world, I realized, man, a lot of these people I look up to, they blew it. Like, you just went on tour with who for four months and you just made 100 grand, you have nothing. Where'd it go? Um, that's a whole nother topic, which absolutely passion of mine, obviously. My wife Jade, now is one of the bases for America of money, because it was such a burden that we carried the debt and the journey to get out of that, it changed us. Uh, the way we make money, the way we handle money, the way we view money, the way we give. All that came out of being in that hole of debt and getting on Dave Ramsay's plan and working it as hard as you can work it.

Allen C. Paul 39:04
It's beautiful. And again, that's why I see this as full circle. Coming right back now, like you said, moving, coming up there where you still have the agency, where you're still doing your thing as a musician. Help me, uh, if I say this wrong, you've never lost the pure joy of creating music. That's never been something, whether it's been business or agency. You still enjoy the fact of calling yourself a musician. That's why I like saying it in full, the full gamut and everything you've shared. Nothing has ever said, oh, and give up your dream of being a musician. You've actually done it by holding on to your dream of being a musician.

Sam Warshaw  39:39
I don't say this to pat myself on the back at all

Allen Paul 39:40
No, please, compliment.

Sam Warshaw 39:41
I was talking to Ron Smith, uh, when I moved up here. We were on the phone, if you don't know who she is, she was Prince's bass player for ten years, and we've become good friends. She said to me, she was like, what are you doing? You're in Nashville. All this music opportunity, blah, blah, blah. And I was like, you know, I said I've performed at least two days a week, like, at the very least. I was at church by the Glades two days of the week, saturday and Sunday, just going hard every weekend. Um, and then before that, on the road for 1012 years. And I said to her, I was like, you know, I don't know what I want to do playing wise right now. I am a musician, but I'm choosing right now to not really. I've had two tour offers since I've been here, and I've turned them both down. I'm just choosing to do what I like. Even on the playing side, I don't want to do that right now. Um, my wife is in a new role, and she's gone during the day, so I take care of our kids. Um, I'm just choosing to do that. And she said to me, she was like, man, do you know how many musicians can say that? Like, none. She's like, you really have to have your crap together to be able to make that choice. And that is what it, uh, for me and Jade, uh, almost everything we've done is boiled down to again, is that, why are you doing this? For me, it's freedom. It's choices to live the life that you want to live. And as a musician, and I realized this early, I think that is absolutely crucial to your success. You have to set yourself up so that you're free. And part of that freedom is being financially responsible, getting on a plan, and owning that area of your life. Because guess what? I see this all the freaking time when I hire people, um, or when I've been on other gigs. Here's what happens. I mean, it could be anything. I'll make up a scenario that could be likely. You're a bass player, you get a call from your boy. He knows Beyonce's manager, all right? Beyonce's manager is looking for keys player. You send him a video, you get the gig. Uh, but let's just say you have to buy your own flight to La to get to rehearsals. And let's say ticket prices are high right now. It's $700 to get to La. And you have $150 because you've been really bad with your money. What's going to happen? Like, you have not set yourself up to win because you've not taken responsibility for that part of your life, which is important. And if you want to be free, if you want to do the things you want to do, there are certain areas of your life you really got to dial in. And I'm just a big believer that personal finance is one of those because I see it all the time. I will hire a guy to work on a ship and you have to do a medical you have to pass a medical exam to work on a ship. Medical exam is, uh, $500. And you have the job. You got the job, but you don't have $500. And so sometimes people got to forfeit their opportunity because of that.

Allen C. Paul 42:47
Wow.

Sam Warshaw 42:48
And so again, back to having that debt. We were like, if we want to have the life we want to have, we got to get out of this by any means necessary.

Allen C. Paul 43:04
That's what we did, man. So much of this goes right back to the character and the discipline that, again, if you want to be a musician, you have to have discipline to learn your instrument. You can want to be skilled, all that stuff, but the same is with life skills. And I just think about that simple proverbs three, five and six, right? Trust in the Lord with all my heart, all the ways and not and he shall direct your past. These past are not easy past their past. There are simple things and simple choices that can have amazingly positive or negative consequences based on what like you just said, we got to look ahead and see that that's what it takes. It takes being a person of again, you may said the word earlier, integrity in your finances, in your business and your character and in the way you treat the musicians and the people in your world so that you can keep those opportunities.

Sam Warshaw 43:45
Yeah, it's such a bummer to me is that, ah, in music you ask any big time musician you look up to, what are you looking for in person that you would hire? And the answer is same. And the bar is so low and it makes me so mad.

Allen C. Paul 44:01
I agree with this.

Sam Warshaw 44:02
They would just show up prepared and um, showed up on time and they were ready to go and they had a good attitude. I'm like that's it why?

Allen C. Paul 44:11
Because common sense. Why is that?

Sam Warshaw 44:12
Because musicians, man, it's like there's like that old bad joke, like how do you make a musician complain? Give him a job. Like, give him a gig. Come on, man, you working so hard for this. You finally get it, and you screw it up for stupid reasons. I just think as a whole, as a community, as a profession, just need to be better about that stuff. Learn your scales all you want, but if you can't show up on time, um, what good is it exactly?

Allen C. Paul 44:40
I call the three P's of professionalism. It's being prepared. Preparation is practice. Obviously, it's professionalism in terms of showing up on time and everything. And it's also your appearance. It's how you show up. Like some people, like you said, don't you show up. And like you said, if you don't have the money to buy the suit and you show up in a little T shirt with a tux on it, which I've heard has happened, by the way. Um, yes, I heard the story the other day on the gigs. I was like, no, he did not. Like, yes, he showed up in a tux T shirt to try to fake the fact that he didn't have a tux. So, yeah, I think we're preaching to the choir, though, because if they're listening to this podcast and watching this, most likely they're the kind of musician that wants to grow. They're the artist that wants to grow. They're not the kind of person that's sitting back. They're actually open to this information and learning from some, like you who's done it, then I guarantee you they're not going to be one of those people that's going to be the unprofessional person. They're going to come up, or at least push themselves now that they've heard you share this. So tell me, please, uh, we could talk about this all day, as we were talking about, like, there's a million different topics we could talk about, but I want to make sure I ask you this question, because I love to finish these interviews with this, and it really just tears what your heart is. If you could talk to the Sam that was there with your wife at, uh, 23 years old, staring at that debt, saying, I want to be a musician, but we got almost a half million dollars in debt. What would you say to that Sam right now, knowing what he felt and that someone else might be in the same position?

Sam Warshaw 46:06
Man that's a good question. What would I say to my younger self? I would say, you got to walk the path. You got to walk. You got to start walking, and it'll happen, but you got to keep walking. You got to keep I remember Jade said this on the last podcast with you. But I pray for favor every day. I'm sure God's tired of me saying.

Allen C. Paul 46:33
Thank God he isn't.

Sam Warshaw 46:35
I think that's the most valuable thing you can pray for, because it's not to me that it's not always going to give you a million dollars. It's, hey, this door could open, or, hey, you're not going to be sick. This day or, hey, you get pulled over and this doesn't happen, or whatever it is. When you have favor, man, what's possible is endless in my mind. And so I would just tell my younger self, you got to start walking this path. It's going to be hard. It's going to be worth it. You won't want to change anything. Keep praying for favor and put in the sweat. It's going to be hard, but when you look up, your mind will be blown. And our pastor at CBG says this all the time, and it's kind of just been a theme for us. Jade's been saying on the Ramsay show, but your bad break will become your big break. Your mess can become your message. And that's what's happened.

Allen C. Paul 47:31
Yeah. Beautiful. Sam I'm telling you, I have been challenged and I have been encouraged by this talk. I am very selfish at these things. These are basically my calls that I share with everybody else. And I'm telling you, I noticed a bunch of musicians and artists and creators who now have a greater sense of what's possible. That their bad break or their moment right now, where they're looking at what seems impossible, and they're looking at you and say with God's favor and with determination that they can do it. So tell them, please, especially if they're a musician that might be even interested in entering this path with you, with someone like you, who can kind of obviously show them the ropes and give them possibly an opportunity they're looking for, let them know how they can stay in touch with you.

Sam Warshaw 48:11
So if you're a musician looking for work and you're interested in the cruise industry, it's a full time gig. Um, you can go to our website, Warshawentertainment.com. There's an application there, you can fill it out. You choose the position. We cast for all kinds of positions. We're casting all the time. We're to the wise. If you're going to apply, you got to do your best. Like, the interview begins the second you start typing. Okay, just a heads up. So if you don't capitalize your name, I'm already throwing your application away.

Allen C. Paul 48:43
All right.

Sam Warshaw 48:44
It's like that serious for me. It tells me a lot about who you are, the way you present yourself, like we've just talked about. So, yeah, go to the website, and if that's something you're interested in, we review every application we get. I respond to every single one. Sometimes it takes me a little while, but I don't like when you submit something and you never hear back. I feel like if you took the time, I'm going to take the time to give you the respect to respond to you. So that's one side and then the other side that I'm super passionate about and a huge part of our life and what my wife does now is if you are a musician and you're struggling with finances, I cannot encourage you enough to go take there's a million resources, but I would say go take Financial Peace University. Um, that's a course created by Dave Ramsay. You can go to Ramsaysolutions.com to take that course, or you can just start you start listening to the podcast, the Ramsay Show, and you will start to understand what you're supposed to do. It's a proven plan. 10 million people have gone through the class. Dave has made more millionaires out of people than anyone in history. It is not a get rich quick thing, uh, at all. It's hard, it's biblical money principles. And if you live those principles out, you will see the results of it. And I can say that with 100%.  I'm living proof of it. I'm free and I don't owe nobody nothing. And we're living our best life. Whether you are just starting out, whether you've got debt, whether you don't have debt, whether you are doing really well, and you want to know how to manage it very well so that it's not a vapor, man, go check out The Ramsay Show. Go to Ramsaysolutions.com. Check out what they got going on, man. I mean, if you let it, it can change your life for real, man.

Allen C. Paul 50:33
Again, brother, I could not tell you how happy and honored and I know the favor that you're walking in is just going to continue because you are still giving out of your heart, generously of what you have to share in your music and your passion. And then, uh, what you and your wife are doing is just the half has not been told. So thank you so much, Sanford. Being part of the God and Gig Show, hope we're going to do it again sometime soon.

Sam Warshaw 50:55
Got it. Thanks, man.

Allen C. Paul 51:05
My friend, how could that interview be any better? How could it be any more impactful than it was? It's impossible. Sam is the walking, talking epitome of what it means to be a faithful, dedicated professional who put his heart and put a bet on himself to do things right, to pay off almost a half a million dollars in debt. Remaining as a musician and going after all the dreams and goals that he had, and now being able to sit at that place of freedom and realize that his mountaintop is having his children around and being able to enjoy this incredible season with his wife. Jade, my friend, if that doesn't inspire you, I don't think we can do anything for you. But if you are inspired, if you do understand that now you see how the favor of God and discipline and character can help you as a musician, an artist, a creative and entrepreneur, whatever you set your mind to. If you follow these principles that Sam has shared with us, you can achieve anything that God has for you. My friend, I've been challenged. Personally, I hope you've been challenged, and I hope you're inspired to go out and do what God has put in your heart to do to pay off that debt, to put yourself in a better financial position, and to be that musician and creative who is a person of character and professionalism. Again, I can't say any more about this. You've heard it all from the man himself. Please follow him. Please make sure you stay connected to everything Sam is doing. And if you are a musician interested in working with Warshaw Entertainment, as you can see, there's no better place to be with professionals like that. Well, my friend, like I said, I really can't add anything to this episode. But maybe you're one of those creatives and musicians who still are wondering if it's time to go full time. If you haven't put all your eggs in that basket because you're worried about what might happen, maybe you have that issue of how am I going to pay off my debts like Sam did? Well, I have a resource that will help you to make that decision. It's called the four questions you need to answer before going full time as a creative. And it's free to you. All you have to do is go to Godandgigs.com Questions. Godandgigs.com Questions the link is in the show notes. That free resource will help you to get the confidence to take your next step, which may be to follow that God given dream and apply the discipline to be the full time creative and to see what God can do with your commitment, just like he did with Sam and Jade. Once again, that's at Godandgigs.com/ questions. Well, my friend, that's our show for today. An incredible show. Please make sure you stay connected, subscribe and follow us wherever you are listening so that you can get more inspiration and encouragement in your creative life like this. And until next time, please continue to become the creative that you were created to be. And I'll see you next episode.

Speaker B 54:09
Thanks for joining us here at the Garden Gig Show. Please leave us a review on itunes like our Facebook page, or visit Godandgigs.com and tell us what you thought of this show. We'll be back soon. In the meantime, go create something amazing.