Perfected by the Potter: How to See God's Plan in Your Creative Challenges w/ Morgan McCarver, Ceramic Artist

0:00

Can God take the messiest and most difficult parts of your life and turn it into a work of art? Now, as a creative, you already know that sometimes the mistakes and the issues of life can actually be inspiration for some of your most beautiful and most powerful work. Well, we're going to find out in this episode how that works in every area of your life. When you hear from our guest today, Morgan McCarver, christian author and ceramic artist, you're going to see how perseverance, understanding God's will, and being able to see the full picture of your creative gift is going to work and magnify not only your impact, but God's presence and power in your life. My friend, I cannot wait for you to hear this episode. So give me just a moment to welcome those of you who are new to guiding gigs, and then we'll get right into this fascinating and inspiring conversation. Artists, musicians, and creatives of all kinds looking for help? Balancing your passion to create with your everyday life? Not sure if your faith can coexist with your profession? Welcome to a place where real artists discuss real life. You're listening to the God and gig show. Visit godandgigs.com for show notes, links and more information. Hello and welcome to our show. Thank you so much for making this podcast a part of your creative day. And if you are new to our show, thank you so much for giving me and us a chance. Let me tell you why you're in the right place at the right time. My name is Allen C. Paul. I'm a musician creative. I'm a husband, father, and I'm forgiven. And I'm the host and founder of the God and gigs show. And what we do here is to help you to bridge the gap between your creative life and your spiritual life. We help you thrive as a creative by giving you timeless spiritual principles that solve temporary creative problems. And we've been doing this for over eight years as I'm recording, so I hope you'll stick around. Check out our resources@godandgigs.com and and absolutely connect with all of our amazing community members via our social networks Well my friend you're going to meet another outstanding creator today and is is going to help you to persevere to figure out how to connect with your creative spirit even when opposition comes your way My guest today is Morgan McCarver She's christian christian author and ceramic artist from Spartanburg South Carolina Now her resume speaks for itself so I'm sure you can check it out in the show notes She has won major awards already porcelain porcelain and ceramics But what I love about what you're going to learn is how she has absolutely taken all the lessons and the bumps and the bruises from both physical and career challenges and still found God is in the midst of all of it It's so amazing that she's a potter You probably have read Jeremiah 18 where God compares himself to the potter Well she has also taken things that have been lumpy and messed up and could have made her life look a lot different And she's taken it and turned it into a work of art even as she creates works of art Her first book God the artist revealing God's creative side through pottery is already out I suggest you go check it out and there's links for that in the show notes But when you hear Morgan speak you're going to hear the heart of an artist who understands that God can take anything and make it into something beautiful just like she does with her art God has done the same thing with her creative career I cannot wait for you to hear this is is going to inspire you Please make sure that you bookmark this and send it to somebody else who might have had some struggles with how to find themselves through the valleys of this creative life and to a a living doing what they love My friends let's listen in to this amazing interview with Morgan McCarver I am so happy to welcome Morgan McCarver to the Got and gigs show How are you Morgan Hey thank you so much for having me I'm doing well How are you I'm doing awesome This has been something that we've been looking forward to for a long time And the first thing that I would obviously start to ask you for is your bio and your resume and all this stuff but that's too easy Everybody reads that in the show notes right Sure So the first thing I was thinking about when I thought about your story was something that we all creatives we all get when were were growing up We all get that So what do you want to be What do you want to do when you grow up So the first question that came to mind to be honest with you was because some people go creatively through your past and ask you what did you do here What did you do there But I was really curious What did you want to be when you were first growing up as a like was this artistic life in your mindset back when you were little Or was there something else that you wanted to do when you grow up When you grew up Oh a a good question I've always looked for creative creative outlet and I started playing with play Doh when I was young So I'd say that's kind of my earliest forms of playing with clay clay like medium But it wasn't like I always wanted to be a potter And even going to college it wasn't like I always said that I wanted to be a potter Probably the earliest thing that I had said that is is what I want to do when I grow up I wanted to be an archaeologist for a while I loved history I loved finding treasure kind of things I loved picking up seashells at the beach and different things like that in in the mud So now I dig in the mud in a different way Yes I was going to say the correlation is perfect because if you're an archaeologist if I can say that correctly you're actually looking for ancient pottery You're looking for ancient things right That people made like thousands of years ago Now you're just making it now somebody somebody else can find it years from now decades of millennia from now they'd be like oh look we have this antique from Morgan McCarver piece that's worth millions of dollars and it's in the Smithsonian So yes that's an awesome connection there But I would love to draw that connection because so much of what I've read about you and what people are learning about you right now is connected to your art but also your story through your art And so can you take us a little bit through the story behind just becoming ceramic ceramic artist and even your new book I want to center on a specific question so it's not too broad What would be the first thing that you want people to know about you as an artist What is that first motivator that you say hey if you want to know me as an artist here's why I kind of chose this profession I would say probably the first thing would be that I'm a potter So if you don't know that about my art I do play in clay I do a lot of ceramics But then also on top of that all of my work is derived and inspired by history And so I'm kind of bringing that into my work So I'm constantly researching constantly referencing and a a lot of symbolism in my work which flows perfectly into the book you write I did write a book called God the Artist and there's all of the symbolism in the Bible And so I'm kind of drawing from that symbolism into the pottery world and showing that correlation through the book God the artist I love that you brought this up and I'm sure you've heard this a million times by now but just that picture of God as the artist And I'm sure you've heard the scripture from a a hundred times and maybe you've referenced it I haven't a chance chance to read the book yet I really want to read it It is out now right It is yes As we're recording Awesome So we'll make sure the link is in the show notes So it's so hard for me to pick one lane Right Because I'm also an artist an an author Right So you have these two things where what you write about connects with what you do So I guess I have to ask first in terms of the author side why did you want to write a book about what you do What motivated you is not just do it right to be the artist but also why did God the artist become like something Oh you know what Let's add this to the resume and let's write about what I do and why God has something to do with this What was the motivation That honestly was from the Holy Spirit And it kind of stemmed out of I was about to graduate college I was about to lose that ceramics community I'd had for four years and I a a devotion book I wanted that connection I had heard about all of these Bible verses I had read some of them for my my professors It a christian christian school and so my professors had referenced them and I thought there's got to be some kind of devotion book out there that would keep me in that community of the christian pottery world And there wasn't a a book that I could find That was what I was looking for And so that that point the Holy Spirit just put it on my heart that this could be something that I could take notes on and start researching Like I mentioned I love researching So I was all ready for that Yeah I'll start researching that Yeah And here's the coolest thing that again I feel like we're both going to nerd out a little bit on just our but we're talking to other creators right so that they understand us So I feel like there's such a connection between what you just said that you wanted to have something that you could use that you wish you had in terms of writing the book And I did the exact same thing with God and gigs as an author for my book and really the as as well It was like I need something that explains how to live in this creative life a Christian Christian and not sacrifice my faith and a creative creative without sacrificing my faith So that was like okay no one I can't find anything that really says this so I'll make it So what about you in terms of the people that you want to reach with the book What do you want artists to get out of talking about God as an artist What is the thing that you like when they pick it up Like thank God this was said What is that thing that you hope they get out of reading something like this My hope is that you'll read it and realize that everybody is creative So for the creatives who are reading it I'm hoping to encourage you in your creativity and in your relationship with God but also I'm hoping that people who might not see themselves as creative or as artists pick up the book and read it and realize that God is creative That's the very first verb the very first line of the Bible Genesis one One God created the heavens and the earth in the beginning And so that's so powerful to realize We're introduced to God as this imaginative creator God making something out of nothing And then just a few verses later we learned that God makes us in his image And so if we truly believe that then by default we are creative because God is creative and he made us creative And so that's just so so powerful that I think people don't always realize especially in this social media culture you think you have to be the best to be anything And that's not true I'm not the best potter I don't sell the most pieces I'm not the most famous But that doesn't disqualify me from my work and that doesn't disvalue my art And I think that's really important to remember that we have so much power and so much potential inside of us that God has given us these passions and we might not even know about them yet Yeah I love the fact that you included people that don't think they're creative and that God I do believe there's absolutely like you just said that God puts his creative spirit in you a a person period And we are his image bearers I think Tolkien I got this actually from one of our other creative experts that I've interviewed and he said it was Tolkien that said we are sub creators that he is the creator the big C Right But we are sub creators so that we can't make something out of nothing but we can make something out of something right And you know more than anyone because of what you work with that the materials that you take And I am curious I want to pivot back to the pottery for a second because you're the first ceramic artist I've ever had on the podcast Cool And I just want to ask you what is the thing that attracts you most to that medium It's an amazing I used to do telling on myself a a home school dad I had to do the ceramics class with my children and my job was just to get the clay out and give it to them And then they do the little dinosaur or whatever And I was horrible at it myself I think I a a dish or something that was horrible So what attracts you to this specific thing and what does it teach you about the nature of God Because clearly you're working a a potter something something that God calls himself a potter in Jeremiah So what attracts you to this And why is it that you love to express yourself through that medium a great great question because I do have other creative expressions that I don't necessarily use as business Like I sew and I knit and I do all of these other kind of fiber arts But I have specifically chosen pottery as something as my area of study in college and then as my business And I think it's really the freedom of the flexibility of the clay There's just so much potential because it is so unformed I guess is the best way to say it It's just a a lump that's sitting there and you can turn that into anything And of course there's challenges to different clays that you're working with I use porcelain which is kind of prone to cracking but it gives just this beautiful white pure kind of milky finish when it's done And so there's things that I'm really attracted to about the clay especially the long lasting power Like we mentioned at the beginning it does last for centuries There's evidence of pottery from different cultures that's been around for hundreds of years So that's really powerful making something that someone can use and have that relationship with too I think that's really something that draws me to that because while I'm making my piece I'm touching it I have this close up personal relationship with this piece I'm making And then when it sells that person is using that mug every day or they're putting flowers in that vase and that's something that's just personal. personal Right Because they're touching it You can't touch painting, painting you're not supposed touch touch most of the art but to be able touch touch and have that relationship with pottery I think it's just something that is unlike most other art forms It's so beautiful I a a mug person I know my coffee mugs Like I have one right here I think right over here my snoopy mug which has John 316 on it Right So like you said it's this connection with the thing that you're using that's both art and practical So I kind of want to pivot to also the practical part of the challenges that you just mentioned selling your art making things that people are going to use I've seen your bio You have had some commercial success and some accolades but I'm sure there's some challenges as well that come with being number one an artist Number two christian christian artist and number three christian christian artist who's porcelain porcelain and ceramics Right Yeah So you add all these in in together So what are the biggest challenges you face in terms of what you do and how you share it Yeah there have been a lot of challenges Just speaking to as an artist First we'll start there Physically I had scoliosis spinal fusion surgery And so physically in the studio there a a lot of challenges where I can't lift heavy boxes of clay like most people can And so I have to kind of work with leverage and use gravity to my advantage in way, way and ask for help of course if I need that But usually in the studio it's a lot of just trying to maneuver and figure out how can I lift up this heavy box of pots How do I pack my car So that is just a very physical level And then moving into the christian artist aspect recently I was trying to promote my book and a a fellow potter who is not Christian Christian was trying to help me promote it And so she reached out to kind of like a club in the area and said you're ceramics ceramics club I a ceramics ceramics friend who wrote this book and I was turned down because the leaders of that group said that they don't believe that religion and art should mix And I thought that's so interesting because that's literally what I wrote the book know And it's spiritual warfare It's the enemy But it was frustrating I have stop stop you because I'm like okay let's get rid of the Sistine Chapel Michelangelo Let's get rid of art and religion Don't mix The phrase itself is mind blowing that someone could even again we're not even talking about proselytizing evangelizing Right We're just talking about the actual existence of art and religion and the idea that you were rejected because you couldn't share that in a public forum How did you handle that I honestly just tried to let it roll off my back so to speak and just keep going look for other opportunities But it was hard because of course having an art history minor I learned most religions have an art form to express that religion It's not just Christianity And so for these people to choose that approach as the reason why they turned me down it was weird I guess is the best way to put it But yeah a a struggle in today's culture especially I'm in Asheville North Carolina It is not christian christian town even though it is in the Bible belt It's not advertised as Christian so to speak And so there have been challenges There's spiritual warfare of course as there is anywhere in the world And then you're right Selling my work I pretty much am the only one running my business So that means that I'm doing the marketing I'm doing the making I'm updating my website I'm the one who takes my pots to shows and sells them I'm the one who restocks in the galleries So it is very time consuming But I love it I love the flow of doing something different every day And so it's really fun but it does get exhausting I can imagine And you mentioned quickly your physical challenges before and I love the fact that you just kind of said well is is what I have to deal with Right You didn't use it as an excuse You didn't mention that oh how much you had to deal with But there's so much rich material in your story that I'm trying not to draw all the lines for you I'm sure your book does it much Better than I can But the idea that you said scoliosis so a spinal spinal issue I'm assuming And I do believe I read that this was in your childhood It was yeah I was 14 and you were 14 So what did that experience dealing with that situation teach you Not just about God but obviously it has applications to what you do as an artist as well But first of all just personally how did you overcome that struggle in the first place and then be able to overcome it even in your business and your pottery and your creativity So I wasn't really in in pottery before my surgery and that's what's interesting It's a a huge part of my testimony because I was still at at the time I was dancing actually And when that surgery came that a year year long recovery that I was banned from dance so to speak I was not allowed to do my passion And that's really when I was introduced to pottery My mom signed me up for just some kids art camp and I fell in love with the clay and just kept taking more classes And then that's what led me into going to college for that and starting my business And so I say this story has to be from God right is is clear clear evidence of the testimony shows that God is so powerful because people don't go from spinal surgery to pottery That is not normal normal step But that's the story that God gave me And I didn't understand why for over decade. decade And I didn't talk about my surgery for over decade decade because I wanted to be normal right I wanted to fit in I wanted people to forget that that happened to me And I didn't want to be different especially a teenage teenage girl struggling with body image with the scoliosis experience But after ten years I was able to look back and realize God gave me that to to basically end up writing the book God the artist I didn't realize all of that was going to culminate into what it was but I just kept saying lord what's my purpose Why did you make me go through all of this I don't understand And so he was faithful in that and patient with me while I was frustrated and not understanding And then it all kind of made sense It all kind of clicked a couple of years ago Like is is why you had me go through that is is why is is my story And now I'm so thankful for that gift because who knows I might never have touched clay if it wasn't for my scoliosis surgery Such mature mature faith Look what what was suffering at the time right And I was really struggling Morgan to be straight up with you and very in in this interview of how to approach that very subject because what I never want to do is imply to anyone that God requires us to feel pain or causes the pain or causes You know what I mean There's that whole thing about God's will and Romans 828 all things work together And what are the things Why is there evil Why does good things happen to bad people and vice versa So I didn't want to get into any of that I love that you shared it that you said that I learned personally you learned that is is why God allowed this that is is why I'm able now to give this testimony through my book through my work So I appreciate that transparency because I really did I was struggling because I did not want to call trauma worship I did not want to become the story of oh well all artists have to go through some mind numbing horrible experience to create great work I don't want that to be the narrative Right But if something does happen and you do have to go through it you a a lesson like you did So thank you for sharing that I wanted to go right into that issue right there with the things that bad things that happen So we talked about artists we talked about entrepreneurship we talked about being creative creative and you being rejected What are some things that you would tell other artists to be ready for in terms of obstacles when they enter this whether they're doing ceramics or music or poetry or whatever creative thing Now that you've lived this life for a while you're definitely younger than me Like I'm not going to do the whole old man thing but I feel like I'm talking to colleague, colleague but a a younger sister So what would you tell someone that's coming up behind you Hey be aware that is is what you're going to have to do to really make it a christian christian artist The first thing that I would say which sounds hilarious but it's something that college did not prepare me for is filing sales and use tax which is regular regular part it's a monthly part of my life So I would say if you're not familiar with how to file your taxes correctly about reporting when you're selling something you're charging tax for that How you report that find a mentor Because the websites are not user friendly and when you call them on the phone they will not help you So that's my first very basic step of advice is figure out how to work the money system in America with the taxes because it's not easy But I would say the advice that was given to me was just keep hustling which sounds crazy but it really is true Just try to apply to as many things as you can as many things as you feel like you could feasibly take on and you're not going to get accepted to all of them And I speak from experience I'm rejected constantly But as long as I'm applying to more things I'm not looking back and saying why didn't I get that Why did they turn me down Why am I not going to have this experience I'm constantly like okay that didn't work out Moving on What am I applying for now What kind of letters of recommendation do I need to get ready What photography do I need to have ready Because photographing your pieces again is a very important part of showcasing your work A lot of these applications take online submissions and so they're not going to see your work face to face They're going to see it through photograph. photograph So make sure you're taking really good pictures of your work Make sure that you're just constantly pursuing opportunities because you never know when something might lead to something else For a a friend of mine was doing a little fall festival kind of thing and asked me to be part part of it and I agreed and I didn't really get great sales there And I was kind of bummed out that basically I a Saturday. Saturday And then someone else came up and said we had some artists drop out for our festival in a couple of weeks What are you doing two Saturdays from now We're kind of looking at other artists and seeing who would be a good fit And we think you would be a good fit And I said okay sure Yeah I've never done a show up there It seems like small small community but whatever And that ended up being my best show of the year So you never know what type of yes will lead to other amazing opportunities But again just being open to trying new things constantly just hustling keeping yourself in in the community keeping yourself attached mentors mentors and friends who can encourage you and tell you things that you might not know in the area All of that's really important for just building that community and having that connection You gave a master master class right there First of all starting with the taxes which is both the worst and the best right It's the worst in terms of having to deal with it And it's the best in terms of I'm one of those people that got burned for years not really taking care of my financial and not realizing that's that's really we're called by God to be good stewards right Which includes being good stewards over our finances over our money and not just saying God give me more work and then not knowing what to do with the proceeds and the revenue and being like you said in line line with the government what the government wants and all that kind of stuff so that you can keep more of it And then of course the advice in terms of mentorship clearly I really already am saying I need to have you back in our community I'm just going to it it to you like live just to make you put you on the spot that what you're sharing needs to be shared in community Like God gigs 360 which is our membership community Because you need that core, core people who understand what you're going through And to anyone that's listening if you don't a a core like God and gigs or if Morgan a a community whatever community find one because that advice is so powerful you cannot move by yourself I mean if God says it's not good that man should be alone in the beginning of Genesis it's never good that man or woman should be alone in terms of anything we're doing Like we move in community he speaks through one person but he he moves through a group So it's so impressive what you've shared and how you've done this And I hate to close this off Like I said I'm giving you the permission to come back on our community anytime Awesome To share as one of our established creative experts that's what we call them our ece people that have already proven that know what they're talking about So please feel free But before we close I want to make sure people hear your heart in terms of one thing and that's what you would say to yourself if you knew what you know now So there's somebody listening who's dealing with physical physical ailment or some other kind of struggle right And they might be a teen they might be an adult but they're where you used to be in terms of a a struggle a challenge, challenge and having an artistic passion that they just don't know how to pursue So what would you say to the person who is where you used to be so that they can have that motivation and encouragement to keep on going Yeah I would say wow that's hard I know it's hard to be in that spot And like I said I was in that area for over decade, decade just questioning God not understanding why he gave me the story but trying to tell myself his truths even if I didn't believe it And so I would encourage you in that way Just keep reminding yourself of the truths of God Again just based on the Bible Go back to his word and just tell those things to yourself even if you're not fully embracing those things Just constantly fill your mind with his goodness but also recognize that the passions that you have for art come from God And I think that's something that is overlooked is that God has given you these talents these passions what you really want to pursue in life those are all coming from God because he created your mind he created your skills he created your talents and he is encouraging you in that way that if you're finding joy through that creative process you're honoring him And I always say honoring God through your art doesn't have to be painting bible verses on canvas. canvas It can be so much more And I think that's really what can be overlooked in this community is if it's not blatantly Christian it's not christian And I don't think that's true at all I think every little thing we do is honoring God whether it's like we talked about making sure we're honoring him through our money or whatever that might be even simply how I talk to my fellow studio mates who aren't christian They're seeing me as that example in their lives So all of these things come into the christian artist walk And I think that's so important to remember that God has given you these passions God has given you this creativity and you're honoring him by pursuing that Could not have been spoken any better Morgan you a a rock star and I use rock Look there See I got the little Oh gosh I'm so corny I apologize Anyway is is the dad joke part coming out of me But I am so uninspired again by your story by your confidence in God what he's made you to be what you are now sharing and making through both your beautiful art Guys go look at her website and follow her Instagram It will inspire you just from the beauty of stuff And maybe go pick up a piece or two that you can display and share But before people go there tell them physically they're it it down I know they can click the in in the show notes How can they stay in touch with you be inspired by you and learn more about you Of course just start at my website It's just my name www.Morganmccarver.com And from there you can follow me on social media You can buy my pottery buy my book connect with me through my website or even sign up for my newsletter Yes I advise everyone to do that And I hope you will be regular regular to to God and gigs Because we are in the same tribe We are part of that same group of people who are just like they were crazy enough to trust God and let him remake us as the potter does Right And just continually to figure out what we are going to become a a more beautiful work of his masterpiece in the world So thank you so much for sharing Morgan This has been an absolute blessing I really hope we can do it again sometime Yes I'd love that Thank you so much for having me My friend I hope you were as inspired as I was by Morgan's example and that interview Now you have heard somebody who's had to persevere through physical challenges through the challenges of not being respected or understood because of her faith And yet she has a a thriving art a a thriving christian creative career because she stuck with her faith and because she has the absolute trust that God has where where she's supposed to be And maybe that's something that resonates with you today Maybe you also have struggled through either physical physical challenge or not being understood or welcomed by your creative community Well number one I welcome you and invite you to check out Morgan Make sure you check out her book God the artist It is absolutely going to help you to build up your faith so that you can do what God has called you to do in your creative field and to know that you are in the right place even when opposition comes your way And practically speaking her message on how to take care of your finances on how to look at all the things you have to do a creative creative and still a a living that is also an incredible, incredible valuable lesson I hope Morgan is going to be back in the God and gigs community very soon to present some workshops on what she does a ceramic ceramic artist And I love the idea of you guys checking out her materials as well and purchasing something from her beautiful collection Well my friend if this has resonated with you and you want more resources to help you connect the dots between your prayer life and your creative life great great way to start is with our seven day devotional Seven keys to devotion which is basically the first week of our devotional your art God's heart So you can get a free copy of the first seven days of our devotional by going to godandgigs.com prayer Godandgigs.com prayer Just tap the in in the show notes and you can get that free resource and it will help you to see these connections between the Bible what you know about God and what he's trying to show you in your creative life so you can become completely confident just like Morgan is Make sure you check out that resource and download it today so that you can also feel this surge of confidence in what God has done in your creative life Well my friend that's all we have for today Please make sure you subscribe on whatever app you're using right now Follow all of our socials and definitely remember that we a value value for value podcast That means we give this value out for free You didn't hear any ads for any other products and in exchange for that value we hope you'll send value back in time by sharing this episode in talent by perhaps donating some of your services If you're good in graphics or you'd like to help us with our show notes or our chapters any of those things welcome. welcome You can email me at allen godandgeigs.com and let me know how you would like to help with your talents in this effort And finally treasure we welcome you to become a monthly subscriber which can mean that you give donation monthly donation through our PayPal link or our Buzsprout link You'll see that under the support the show link Or you could even get really fancy and become one of our supporters in our value for value universe where you can actually use little pieces of bitcoin that are called sats And if you're using a podcasting 2.0 a there's a link for that in the show notes You can actually join the new wave of being able to support us with a brand new system that really is exciting and you can send messages with that same device So check out the link for the podcasting 2.0 app that's probably going to be a little different than your Spotify or your apple Trust me it's not more complicated it's just a little different and it's going to be a lot more fun So check that out if you'd like to support us with treasure Thank you so much for being a Part of our show And until next time continue to become the creative that you are created to be God bless and