Going the Wrong Way

KATHLEEN: Hello everyone and welcome to the journey of an awakening spirit. This is Kathleen Flanagan, your host and we are streaming on the Bold Brave TV Network. The purpose of the show is to help you realize that you are not alone, you are in control of your life. It does not matter what your lot in life is or where you came from.

KATHLEEN: We have all felt pain, suffering, hurt, abandonment, loneliness, hopelessness, et cetera. This show helps you to take those dark moments and turn them around to create a whole new you. We were taught to be a certain way to act a certain way and to conform to society.

KATHLEEN: Being socialized is not bad, but it can put constraints on us. The guests I bring on the show are telling you their story of where they were and where they are going and what obstacles that they have overcome. They are sharing the tools they use to recreate themselves and their life.

KATHLEEN: Some of the guests are still in their process beginning a new process, comfortable in their process or even reinventing themselves. They are giving you the tools that they use to gain insight into themselves to take control of their life and become the person that they are today on podcast dot Kathleen M Flanagan.com is a list of the guests that I have had on the show with their contact information.

KATHLEEN: I am aware that you may resonate with one or several of them. My desire is that this becomes a community where you have access to the people you wish to align with and to utilize the tools that they have as well as the tools being utilized on Kathleen and flanagan.com.

KATHLEEN: I am a certified coach who can help you reach your dreams. I help you learn how to rely on and believe in your unlimited potential and power. I already know that you've had experience flashes of intuitive knowledge and big thinking that has you wondering just how far could I fly?

KATHLEEN: If only I'm here to help you stir up that innate knowing and self trust already deep in deep, instilled in your soul. I help you to forge forward when the old you would rather give up and turn back. Awakening. Spirit. Com is an aromatherapy based company and we use all natural ingredients and organic ingredients and we are offering a 40% discount code Brave TV into that and all the products are guaranteed to work.

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KATHLEEN: I was supposed to have a guest on the show today. He was coming in from Ireland and for whatever reason he hasn't shown up. So I get to talk to you guys again for a second week in a row, whatever the reason is, I don't know.

KATHLEEN: I'm really totally ok with it because there's been a lot of changes in my life and if you listened to me last week, I was telling you where I was last week at this time. And now there's like this whole new set of information that's come in. So as most of, you know, that I'm really working on developing my coaching business and I'm really working on dialing in my messaging.

KATHLEEN: And on Saturday, I did attended, a speaker seminar to really get my speech better and I think it's really good as it is, but I just figured I could have a little bit more dynamic opening and closing. How do you sell from the stage? That kind of thing? And what I received was way more than that.

KATHLEEN: I mean, I have some of the most amazing titles so I can take this speech that I have and do three or four different types of topics on the speech and then opening and becoming just a little bit more exciting. And I thought that was really cool because, I'm always wanting to better myself. That's the main thing.

KATHLEEN: I also came to the realization too from last week of just being in this place that I was in. Because by Friday, when I was talking to my coach, I was in a lot of tears and I cried basically through the whole time with my coach about what was going on and what was coming in for my life.

KATHLEEN: I talked to Zak today who's going to be on the show next month. But she and I were having a conversation about a lot of this as far as our perception because everything we do is based on our perception. And so I was looking at the people were invalidating me thinking they were better because they had a college education.

KATHLEEN: They were thinking, you know, they don't want to hear what I have to say. And these are all old paradigms. And when I was having this experience, there was this mountain that was moved, I moved a mountain and I was thinking that I was moving mountains every single day.

KATHLEEN: That's kind of how I started out looking at it. Then it was, well, I think I moved this mountain or I need help to move the mountain. And then I realized I was the one to move the mountain. And the mountain that I moved at that point was really strong, limiting beliefs that I've had that I created and developed when I was a child.

KATHLEEN: Because when you come from trauma and you're trying to survive whatever that trauma is, you create defenses. And this mountain that I created was about protecting myself from people who hurt me, protecting myself from my voice because I didn't know how to speak.

KATHLEEN: I was shut down as a child to speak. I didn't trust anybody in the world. And the only person or entity that I trusted was God and myself and no one else because when primary caretakers hurt you, it really does something to your psyche. So what I realized is I moved that mountain where I have a clear road to move forward in my life.

KATHLEEN: And I can tell you that is one of the scariest things I have ever done for myself. I mean, to the point that it was earth shattering. Now also, I had a dream before all this was happening because this was the culmination of realizing that I'm in utter terror where I was in the dream.

KATHLEEN: I'm just gonna very quickly. I was in an elevator. There was a man in the elevator, I'm in an airport. So there's meanings with all of that right there. He didn't push the button. We went up. Then he came over to my side, reached his hand out and I started getting afraid because it was just me and him.

KATHLEEN: So I moved that and then I realized that this man was going to rape me. And what I discovered through that was there was this white light that was all the way up here so I could see him through white light. So I knew I was safe, but that didn't mean I was safe in my mind.

KATHLEEN: I was scared because I couldn't tell if he was trying to reach at me, grab me, take his clothes, he was taking his pants off. I don't know. All I know is I woke up screaming, literally woke myself up saying no God help me. What I realized from that is that I am in utter fear of what I had just done with moving the mountain because I'm now completely, totally and utterly exposed.

KATHLEEN: I am trusting, which I said, I want to be the fool in the tarot. I want to be able to know that I am taken care of provided for. And God has my back every step of the way which I know he has.

KATHLEEN: But I want to actually live that purposely, not in an unconscious way, but really purposely living that. And that really started to stem a lot of things that started cascading from there. With that realization when I talk to my coach about it, he was like, well, maybe this is about helping you to become more compassionate and helping those people that are in there that think that they have a handle.

KATHLEEN: And this is just a little bit more about you developing compassion because I am an empath and I am compassionate. But I realize that the main thing that I realized at that moment was that I needed to step back.

KATHLEEN: I needed to get off the stage further because I was also in my head during that period, I didn't think I was in my head because everything was getting more and more difficult to defining what I was doing and where I was going. And I'm like, why am I struggling? And it's not supposed to be a struggle? And I was like, well, you're in your head, you got out of head and go to your heart space.

KATHLEEN: And so when I say that you always want to be in your heart space and you want to be here. Now. I really mean, you really need to do that because I'm actually walking in that space of what it's like when you shift out and then how all of a sudden things start happening that are maybe a little bit more difficult or challenging when they shouldn't be.

KATHLEEN: So you get back into your heart space when I realized that I was taking things personally because I take everything personally and I don't want to take everything personally because it's not about me, it's about them, it's their stuff.

KATHLEEN: And when I realized that, ok, I need to step back further because if I'm going to go into doing more deeper, harder, technically work with people on looking at their limiting beliefs, helping them move and step into the grandness of who they are.

KATHLEEN: That means I have to step back further and stay further away and not in a bad way, but in a protective emotional way. So I don't get wrapped up because the other thing that happened is the gentleman that owes us money that reneged us paying us on May 1st for the sale of our unit. I found out that all of his businesses have been shut down for permitting issues.

KATHLEEN: And I think what part of this is is because he did a lot of work on three units that he he didn't get permits. So the woman who I knew was my tenant did my hair and she said that she can't work for the next 4 to 6 weeks and it blew me away.

KATHLEEN: And for some reason, she thought this was my fault and I said I had nothing to do with this. I said it was him. But what I noticed and observed in that was that I was getting caught up into her, frustration in her anger. What am I gonna do now? This poor woman, this man made her move three times.

KATHLEEN: She doesn't wanna move. She doesn't like change in her life at all. She wants none of that and she had to pay for each move and he didn't, which I think is wrong, but that's my personal opinion. So who cares what that means? And thirdly, when she was there, I had to wake up and realize that her father just passed away.

KATHLEEN: So she's in grief, her mom's grieving and she doesn't know where she wants to go what she wants to do. And this is a beautiful time for spirit that's saying it's time for you to move. Well, one of my topics is now going to be, if you don't take control of your life, life will control you. And do you want to be a victim of your life, the rest of your life?

KATHLEEN: I know, I certainly don't. So in this process, I started looking at a bigger picture. And today, when I was talking to Zak, the next thing that I realized at that moment was why should I have to look at? I move this mountain on the dark side of why I moved it. What if it's because I want to step into the grandness of me? What if I want the God spirit to be in me 24 7?

KATHLEEN: So why not change how I'm looking at everything instead of being negative? If this is beautifully divinely orchestrated, our lives are beautifully and divinely orchestrated. If we allow Spirit or God or whatever you want to call it to run through you because they already it already is. But really become consciously aware of that everything starts to change.

KATHLEEN: So why not continue? Because I'm knowing that I'm going further up in the frequency and it's unknown territory and I could be terrified of that, but I don't choose to because I feel safe. And as long as I'm feeling safe and even though I'm coming out in the world and I'm showing up in a totally different way and I'm scared as hell on the inside doesn't mean I'm going to stop doing that.

KATHLEEN: I want to keep moving forward in a very positive direction and all of it comes from, what am I thinking? How am I seeing it? And then how am I speaking? So, when you start paying attention to your thoughts, how are you looking at it in a positive way or a negative way? Are you empowered or are you a victim?

KATHLEEN: And then how are you speaking? Are you empowered or are you a victim when you stay present in the now, get off the stage and step back and observe your life. You start to see things differently. Well, we're going to go ahead and take a quick break and I just found out that Chris is sitting in the room so he will be with us when we come back.

KATHLEEN: Welcome back, everyone to the journey of an awakening spirit. This is Kathleen Flanagan, your host and we're streaming on the Bold Brave TV Network. I have Chris Donaldson in the room with us and Chris didn't look like an Aboriginal adolescent as he set off from Belfast on his cafe racing, Mota Gunz. But it was the same motivation that drove him to set off on a journey of self discovery.

KATHLEEN: But when the Iranian revolution stopped the planned 10,000 mile motorcycle road trip to Australia, he ends high in the Andes 50 odd 1000 miles later before returning to Belfast going the wrong way. A coming of age road trip like no other Chris is now riding to Australia on the same. Mota Guzzi LAMAs, 42 years after his first attempt. Welcome Chris.

CHRIS: Thank you, Kathleen. How are you?

KATHLEEN: Good. How are you doing?

CHRIS: Good, good.

KATHLEEN: I'm glad you made it. So why don't you tell everybody a little bit about the journey of your becoming an awakening spirit, which I know is very centered around this trip and the redoing the trip to finish it.

CHRIS: Well, let's say every good story has a bit of a disaster to it. And mine started off pretty quick as a disaster. When I was 21 I decided to, well, when I was about 15 or 16, I decided to get out of Belfast where I grew up, it was in the seventies and there was a lot of troubles were going on at the time.

CHRIS: There was bombs going off and bullets flying. So I decided to get out and get to Australia and for some reason I decided to do it on a motorcycle.

CHRIS: This is 1979. So I didn't get very far because around about November of 79 I told him and he took over the American Embassy in Tehran and the Islamic revolution kicked off. So my planned journey didn't happen the way I thought it was going to anyway, I left home and I told my friends to be back in two years, so I couldn't turn up back in two weeks time.

CHRIS: So I had to keep going and I ended up going to South Africa driving through Africa to Cape Town. I got a yacht, got a place in a yacht race coming back to Europe. And then I flew the bike over to the States, went up to Canada and I made my way on down through the States, Central America to South America and eventually ended up in Argentina a year and a half later.

CHRIS: So, that's why the story is called going the wrong way. I ended up left for Australia and ended up in Argentina.

KATHLEEN: So, what did you learn on that trip? Because that's an extensive trip on a motorcycle even if you didn't finish it at that moment.

CHRIS: Well, I suppose what I learned about myself is, I could put up a lot of, but put up with a lot of problems and when you're traveling on your own, you have nobody else to fall back on. So it certainly taught me to be self reliant and self, look after myself amongst other things.

KATHLEEN: So, were you making money? So you could keep moving forward in the trips when you were in these other countries or did you just have this unending supply of money to move you forward?

CHRIS: Well, I left after I was at college. So I worked summers and worked evenings to get some money and that was supposed to be for a three or four month trip to Australia, but I ended up on the railroad for a year and a half. So funnily enough money was one of my biggest problems.

CHRIS: Once to put petrol on the motorbike and got somewhere to park it up, whatever was left of the sort of use it as meaning, hold on to it as much as I could.

CHRIS: But yeah, down parts of Africa you live very cheap. But you're living like locals and it's pretty, pretty rough.

KATHLEEN: So when you got done with your trip, how did that alter your life to where you are today?

CHRIS: Well, I got home in 81.

CHRIS: I was broke, I got hepatitis and my motorbike was in bits. So everything I wanted to find out, I wanted to end up in Australia. It didn't happen, ended up back in northern Ireland in the middle of the troubles with no money. So I was a bit depressed as such. And after you've been on a journey that's for a year and a half. Every time you woke up, you didn't really know where you were.

CHRIS: There was a bit of a challenge every day, certain places like Africa, South America, it was quite traumatic in a way to get my head around living back in Belfast, living back in a normal civilized country or semi civilized.

KATHLEEN: So, what did you do to re acclimate yourself because, yeah, you're sitting here on this, wild ride. Having the time of your life, total freedom. And now civilized society doesn't allow us necessarily to do that. So, I guess that's the question is, what did you do to get back into that?

CHRIS: Well, I started writing because I had heard of nobody else doing it. But, I got halfway through, I got my manuscript finished going through the details. And I found out that a guy had just written a book before me. He'd done the trip about five years before and he just finished writing a book.

CHRIS: A guy called Ted Simon and I wrote J British Travel. So I thought my naivety, somebody's written a book about this. There's no point in me doing it. But really what I didn't realize was that he was about 45 years old. He was a journalist, plenty of money. I was 21 half his age. So the journey we made went down the same roads, but totally different experiences with that different age group.

CHRIS: So I finally got around to writing the book about four years ago, found my manuscript and got down to writing the book and it's been a great success. It has been a great shout for myself and my family. I think my daughter thought she could think of six people who would read it, which wasn't a great motivation, but it's been a best seller on Amazon for quite a few months.

CHRIS: And it's got 1305 star reviews. So it's going pretty well. Ironically, I've met up with Ted Simon, the guy who wrote the first book, had a few glasses of wine and talked about places we've been and things that we've done. He's about 92 now.

KATHLEEN: So, you journaled during this trip that you were taking then?

CHRIS: Yes, a journal pretty much the whole trip. And then when it was a time off, I would put it in a manuscript form.

CHRIS: I was never very academic at school in English. It wasn't my best subject. It was before spell checker came in the market.

CHRIS: So, I wasn't very good at writing in those days, but I think it's been able to, it's certainly been a fun journey, writing the book and self publishing as well. I always enjoyed learning different new things and you know, technology, you can say what you like about technology, but to be able to sit in Belfast, write a book, put it online and have it selling in America all over the world. It's quite credible.

KATHLEEN: So, did you write this after your second trip or was this book written when you only did your first trip?

CHRIS: I only did my first trip. And if you can imagine it was quite novel. Quite strange reading my journal that I'd written when I was 21-22 at the age of 62 and sort of reading about what I'd done and doing my old photographs and doing it all learning about what it was like when I was 22 n40 years later, when I was wondering what was going on at 22 I think of what's going on. I 62. But you don't really.

KATHLEEN: So talk about a little bit of that because you had an opportunity that you wrote a journal in your twenties to write a book. And here you are 60, 40 years later, going back, redoing, rewriting reliving and then deciding to go for another trip around the world this time. So, what was the thought process? What were you thinking? How, I mean, that reflections did something in your brain.

CHRIS: Yeah, I mean, looking back, I was trying to find myself 21 was very much a sort of substantive age when you're coming from child to teenager to manhood, starting your own work, bring a family up and getting into serious life.

CHRIS: So it was very much a coming of age trip. Although I realize now that I wasn't really looking for myself, I was looking to challenge myself. I was looking to test myself to see what I could do what I could put up with rather than discovering the world. One of the nice things about the journey was, just from the disaster of not having anywhere to go was I was actually traveling without a destination in mind.

CHRIS: And it's, if you think about it, any time you go traveling, you're always going somewhere. That's the whole point of traveling generally is to go somewhere. Whereas I was just traveling for the sake of traveling, it was like a, like a hobo, I suppose they fix the boat nowhere to go in particular.

CHRIS: I was just living for the day and that's where they, I think where the magic of the journey comes from because I was just traveling and making experience some things as it went along. Obviously, it's before the internet age. The only guide books I have were for places like India, Middle East, Far East. So I had no idea what was in Africa, what was in South America. So every day was a surprise.

CHRIS: In fact, if I had any idea where I was going, I wouldn't have gone there because it was too dangerous. It was in places like Uganda just after a day. I mean, I had been in power, Rhodesia, Zimbabwe, Rhodesia just after their civil war was in South Africa during apartheid. So some very dodgy places.

CHRIS: And I just wouldn't have gone there if I, if I'd done better.

CHRIS: So ignorance, ignorance is bliss.

CHRIS: But after I published a book called with some great write ups, one of my friends said, well, you never actually got to Australia. Why not have another go? So, a little in my mind and I thought, well, if I'm going to do it, I need to do it on the same motorbike to keep the continuity together.

CHRIS: So three years ago, we set off, two of us set off to go to Australia. I've still got a family, I've got a business to run. So we did it in legs. We still left, drove for two weeks, parked up and flew home back to work back to family. And then two or three months later did another leg and another leg.

CHRIS: Unfortunately, after two legs, Liam decided to, it really wasn't worth the risks involved. I don't think he thought it through what sort of higher control things can go when you get into the sort of third world countries. So I ended up after him giving me the idea of deciding to do it, he gave up.

CHRIS: So I ended up having to do it on my own again, which as it turned out was far the best way as well because traveling on your own has huge advantages. And as much as when you arrive somewhere, you're on your own, you're much more interested in talking to somebody and learning about what's happening in the place and who the people are as well as people are more inclined to talk to you.

CHRIS: If you're with a couple of other people, for instance, you've got your own little community there, people aren't going to come over and talk to you in a bar, in a restaurant or roadside, whereas you're on your own, people are less scared to say what's this guy who's he doing?

CHRIS: And really you got nothing but friendship when you travel around the world, people want to take you into their homes and look after you and help you out. So on. So it's, yeah, it's a great way of traveling.

KATHLEEN: Welcome back everyone to the journey of an awakening spirit. This is Kathleen Flanagan, your host. And we're streaming on the Bold Brave TV Network and we have Chris Donaldson in the room with us today and he just shared that he went and did his second trip, going through Australia and his friend left him, didn't want to continue on, but he ventured forth.

KATHLEEN: Chris now I interviewed a woman who did the El Camino after her husband had passed away and she talked about very similar things that you talked about with just the people she met along the way, the openness that she received.

KATHLEEN: Just the camaraderie, understanding the culture a little bit better and some of their traditions and you talked about that as well. So when that happened, were you not really experiencing that when you were traveling with Liam?

KATHLEEN: And it just seemed to open up or was it that they were curious about what you, we're doing? Why is this person riding a motorcycle through our country? I know in America we get a little bit hesitant to ask things like that, but I keep hearing in Europe, that's not what we go through here.

KATHLEEN: We're more cautious here. So, can you elaborate a little bit on that? Because first of all, I want to also know too is what were the differences from the first trip to the second trip from as well? Did you have those same experiences on your first trip as you did on the second trip?

CHRIS: Yeah, I did, to be honest, the first trip of every bit as much people as friendly and very much, very often it would be the people who had te least who had been the most friendly and wanted to share with you.

CHRIS: On the first trip, I think people looked at me as a 21 year old kid who needed some help. Whereas this trip, he looked at me as a saddled Cadger who needs the help of his motorbike. You know, I certainly had a few, I remember calling in a few places.

CHRIS: And taking my helmet off and the guy would look at me, take a double look because they weren't expecting to see the gray hair and you take the helmet off expecting to see some 20 year old, you know. But, no, I mean, having somebody with, you name was a big guy and it was always good to have some extra security with you, I suppose, from a point of view, if it two is much better than one.

CHRIS: Especially on a motorbike, you sort of, if you're going into a shop or something, you get somebody to look after things. And there's certainly, at times I felt, you'd feel at a disadvantage if you're in a sort of dark street in a dark night somewhere like Tehran. But, I mean, places like Iran were some of the most friendliest people I met along the way.

CHRIS: A couple of times going to petrol stations and you couldn't use your credit card because of sanctions, I have, some of the petrol stations, you could only use Iranian credit cards. So I'd say the guy in front of me, can you give him $20? Can you fill my tank up if I give you the cash and a couple of times they filled my tank up and said, no, we won't take any money.

CHRIS: I want you to go off and enjoy our countryside and have a good time. You know, it's not everywhere people would do that. In fact, petrol was only about 10 cents a liter, probably helped as well, but I didn't have to take that away from him. But no, I mean, traveling down to Europe as Liam over to Israel, it's much more comfortable with somebody else.

CHRIS: But it does put other people off approaching you. But you also, you've got the two of you as a self contained unit, you have to stop for something to eat yourself, go for a drink on your own. You wouldn't be bothering about talking to other people. So it's probably more from my own point of view.

CHRIS: It makes you, if you've been traveling on a motorbike all day, you want to go somewhere and have a drink and relax and talk to somebody, and learn about the culture, learn about where you are and that sort of thing, you know. It also helps. So it's definitely advantages traveling on your own.

CHRIS: You were asking anything about the, comparing the two trips.

CHRIS: And this trip certainly was, I'm 60 I'm 65-66 now. So I'm officially an old age pensioner in the UK. But, I've seen a lot of friends retiring, especially when men retire. Maybe men focus a lot on their work traditionally. And they very often put so much of their time into work and forget about hobbies and having something else to do.

CHRIS: So whenever they retire, they've lost their sense of identity as well as what their interest was, which is working or driving a business or running a company. So, I wanted to show that, when you hit this age, you don't have to do nothing.

CHRIS: You don't have to just sit in the garden, cutting the lawn or playing golf twice a week because you can actually do things that you used to do in your twenties, albeit a bit slower and maybe it'd take a bit more time at it.

CHRIS: But, a couple of years ago I was sort of getting, an indication of Parkinson's disease, which has affected me slightly. Not, not as much as it could do, but I think it's important as well to keep pushing yourself and keep driving yourself forward because your brain is a bit like a muscle. If you don't use it, you will lose it.

CHRIS: So by keeping yourself interested in riding a motorbike across the world might seem a bit extreme to some, but it just shows what you can do if you want, if you want to keep putting your mind to it.

KATHLEEN: You know, how did your wife feel about you wanting to take this trip again?

CHRIS: Well, we had a few deep conversations about it but she's very understanding, believe it or not, it's not the craziest thing I've got her to do. We, we lived in yacht in Dubai for eight years.

CHRIS: So she, she wasn't surprised but she was very good.

KATHLEEN: Well, at least you met a woman that can take you on when you want to do crazy things because, you know, sometimes that's really hard for women to do is take on. You wanna do what? Really at your age? Are you crazy? What are you thinking? Yeah.

KATHLEEN: So I get a little bit like, ok, and then you surrender, because it is, it's about us doing things and allowing our partners to do what they need to do because I know that I do that right now. I'm doing a lot of traveling without my partner.

KATHLEEN: For where I'm moving into my new life and it's all ok. I mean, just do it because it's like I want you to do this and it's very supportive and it's really a wonderful feeling to have a supportive partner when you get like, these crazy notions.

CHRIS: Yeah. No, we couldn't do without our support.

CHRIS: I mean, it was amazing. One of the biggest differences this year. This trip was when I was traveling in the seventies and eighties. I remember stopping in Cairo to make a phone call home with my mother and I had to book it the day before I got five minutes. It cost about £5. So it's probably about 50 euros now.

CHRIS: I was, spent the whole day just trying to get through, whereas you're traveling through Pakistan around places like that, you just dial up WhatsApp and you're speaking to anybody you want, you know, speaking to your wife every day, see how things are going, also able to take out the laptop and still continue doing my work when it was in the middle of Kathmandu or something like that.

CHRIS: You know, it's pretty amazing. But yeah, it's good to have a good support network behind you to be able to do the things you want to do.

KATHLEEN: Has your wife ever shown any interest in wanting to go to some of the countries that you went to by the tales that you have told, or she just happy where she's at.

CHRIS: No, she's actually one of her, took her out on her first date, I think. And then about a year later she was living in Barcelona. I took a motorcycle trip to ST Petersburg in Moscow and then Moscow, she flew out to join me in ST Petersburg. We go to Moscow and then back to Russia back to Europe that way. So she's always had an adventurous spirit herself.

KATHLEEN: Oh, well, that's great. I bet that was fun to do that with her.

CHRIS: Yeah, it was good. I mean, it's amazing. Russia is an amazing place to see and unfortunately it's not the sort of thing you can do nowadays.

KATHLEEN: Yeah. I don't know if I would have even thought to do something like that in Russia. But, yeah, I admit I lived a sheltered life. I've only been to Egypt and Mexico. Those are the only two countries I've been to, I am going to Puerto Rico and I've got Guatemala on my list this year to do as well.

KATHLEEN: And we'll see where else I choose to go. But I've always wanted to travel. My thing is always, well, what's the food going to be like? And, and then feeling, I don't know, not so secure. And I think it's, that's just my own limitation because when I went to Egypt, I went with my mother and it was such a fabulous trip.

KATHLEEN: I had no idea because, I mean, she was going with groups, you know, and she said that's where you start is, not doing what you did. I don't think I could do what you did but just go with, and just go back because so many people I've talked to that traveled Overseas.

KATHLEEN: So, yeah, we started out in a group and then when the countries that we like, we went back on our own separately and everybody talked about how wonderful the people were, how inviting they were, how they opened their homes to, and things like that.

KATHLEEN: And, being in Egypt was such an interesting experience. Of seeing the old with the new and just like it, it didn't make sense to me and yet thinking that it's a poor country and it really isn't as poor as, it's not poor. It's just, it's a desert, you know.

CHRIS: So one of these countries, there's a lot of poor people, a lot of rich, there's a lot of rich people but an awful lot more poor people there.

KATHLEEN: Yeah. There definitely is that.

KATHLEEN: I think that's such a gift. I know that you're from Ireland and it's easier to travel Europe when you're in Europe. Just like, it's easier to travel the States when I'm in the States. Right. Because I've seen almost all of our States, not all of them yet.

KATHLEEN: That's another thing on my bucket list is to finish looking at the states, my country because, it's pretty amazing. And someday I'm going to get up to Canada. I have a lot of Canadian friends. So I want to get up there one of these days too. But I think traveling really broadens our perspective.

KATHLEEN: And I had a sister who traveled Europe before she died. She traveled Europe and, she was 21 when she passed and we had to bring her back from Germany because she was in Greece and was kicked out and ended up in Germany and she caught a parasite and it ate her insides basically is what happened.

KATHLEEN: It was the stories that she would tell in her journals because we all got to read her journals and the stories of what she went on through and the people that she met, I mean, the photos that she had she was always with somebody and she was always happy and she was having a good time and there was like that element of jealousy of God.

KATHLEEN: I wish I could have done that. The only people at her funeral were us with her immediate family. But if anybody else knew in Europe, I'm sure that church would have been filled to the brim with the amount of people that she met.

KATHLEEN: I commend you for having the bravery to do that because if I could have done it, I would have because I think it would be such a cool adventure to do and I'm not brave enough that way yet at this age, I'm still not that brave yet.

CHRIS: I don't have bravery or stupidity of some pretty dumb things.

KATHLEEN: But it expands your horizons. You change, you transformed into something different because of it. Even if you don't think your life altered, it did trying to get you to talk about that is challenging right now.

KATHLEEN: But, it did change your perspective and that's what I want is people to know, you did this. It was maybe it was fearless, maybe it was stupidity but you survived it and then you went and did it again. 40 years later. How many people take that for an adventure?

CHRIS: Well, it was interesting to, to do great times sitting on a motorbike the same motorbike as I did 40 years ago. This is strange enough on its own to have, still have the bike though.

CHRIS: It was interesting comparing the old technology with the new as well. Bike was obviously built in the seventies.

CHRIS: Liam's bike was a new one. And if anything went wrong with his bike, I basically needed a new part for it. Whereas on the old bike, it was all more mechanical, less electronic. I could just fix it myself. So it was interesting that way too. But no, definitely the journey I made there was times that, 10 years ago got caught up in a property crash with the banks and they repossessed properties.

CHRIS: And they did it very cleverly, but they did it in such a way that you're left with no money to spend on hiring a legal team to get back, to get it back again from you. So I ended up self litigating against the banks.

CHRIS: And I remember at one stage sitting in the court room on my own, speaking to the judge, he was about to decide what to do to take the property off me. And it sort of thought in the back of my head. Well, I can ride a motorbike across the Sahara desert so I can speak to this guy up in the front of the bench without worrying about it too much.

CHRIS: So, it certainly been a strange, it may seem strange riding across the desert could help you in a court room. But I think all the experiences that you have when you're in your sort of teens and early twenties that do have an impact on your personality and your life after that.

CHRIS: And where is the, books called Going the wrong way? Obviously started off from a geographical point of view. I sort of when I was writing the stories and looking back on my life since then, I sort of realized that going the wrong way is something that I've done quite often in my life.

KATHLEEN: I think we all think that at times.

CHRIS: People talk about the road, less travel being the right one, but certainly, going in a different direction. Lesser track is a lot to be said for it. I think especially kids these days, everybody has become so health and safety conscious that you shouldn't do this, you shouldn't do that.

CHRIS: And you're growing up, your parents are telling you what to do, then your teachers, then you, your work, there's always somebody telling you what to do, but somebody looking after you, if you do the wrong thing, I think it's good to get away on your own and challenge yourself and just to see what you can do yourself without anybody else's input.

KATHLEEN: I think we were fortunate in our generation that we were able to do that because we used our imaginations. We had creative imaginations. In the summertime we leave at eight o'clock and come home at eight o'clock to go to bed. We were gone all day.

KATHLEEN: Our mothers never worried about us because we were always at somebody's house and all the neighbors knew each other and they always knew where the kids were and we never felt like we were being confined.

KATHLEEN: Like you're saying, like the kids are now where mom and dad drives you to school and then picks you up from school and takes you to soccer practice, then takes you home to eat and then takes you over here where you're always being shuffled where we were just get on the bike and go, I'm going swimming by and we would go swimming or we would go to the park or whatever it was because we didn't have those dangers, so to speak.

KATHLEEN: In my opinion, I think we lived in the best generation because we had so much freedom we weren't coming out of the depression. We weren't really dealing with the wars. Yes, we had Vietnam and we still had some of those things going on, but nothing compared to what the previous generations went through.

KATHLEEN: We had a life of abundance on many, many, many levels that was never present before. And the fact that we were allowed to have those freedoms to develop our imagination that sci fi was coming out and Motorola creates the, the flip phone because it was the communicator on Star Trek.

KATHLEEN: You know what I mean? And then for you to be able to go out and do that to discover even more about yourself. Because I think we were a generation that really wanted to discover who we were. Why we're here. What is our world made up of instead of being living and dying in one location our whole life because most people do.

KATHLEEN: And because of this, I've lived in many States, I've traveled, I've traveled most of the United States. I'm going to start doing some more traveling Overseas. You know, that's what enriches our lives. And I think what you did really demonstrates that.

CHRIS: I think you talk about how technologies help me and been able to make things easier. I think for kids these days having mobile phones and Facebook and internet and Instagram has, people haven't realized just how insidious and just time wasting and ruining kids' lives.

CHRIS: It is because the kids spend their whole life on the computer when they should be out, doing things rather than spend their whole life watching people do things instead of actually going out and doing themselves.

CHRIS: I think in years to come it will be, people will realize what desperate sort of affect the sad in children and teenagers and even 20 year olds now they just sit in the house all day. Don't get off the computer.

CHRIS: We've all fallen into it because it is so addictive to do it. So, everything you want is there in front of you on the screen. But they've got to be losing something of the quality of life by not actually being out there doing something which is maybe not half as exciting as the guy in and, Facebook jumping cliffs or whatever he's doing.

CHRIS: But you keep making your own adventures in your back garden. Alan watching somebody in doing a Red Bull competition or something like that, you know?

KATHLEEN: Yeah, I do. I know that I know that I did that. I mean, going to Egypt, I can read all the books. I can do all that. But when I went there it's a totally different experience.

KATHLEEN: And that's the thing is you want to bring that richness into your life, the culture, I would never have known the Egyptians to be the kind of people that they were if I hadn't gone because we don't really talk about the essence of that country, of the people, of what they're going through or seeing the guards on every corner for whatever reason.

KATHLEEN: I mean, that was foreign to me and seeing all that and then the craziness of the driving and, oh, I hope you get across the street. I'm not going to cross the street but they knew how to maneuver where I didn't.

KATHLEEN: But they were willing to help us, it was just such a blessing to have that experience and that's why I want to have more of it because yeah, I can look at a computer but it's not the same as being in the country because there's an energetic feeling and that comes into me to be able to make me a bigger, brighter, more experienced person.

CHRIS: I guess the information we get from our TV, cameras TV programs so on is pretty much what the government wants us to learn. I believe it's when you go to somewhere like Iran and you meet the people there and they're actually twice as friendly, twice as nice as half the people you meet at home. You realize what's this?

CHRIS: We've been told for the last 40 years. It was 40 years ago. The American Embassy got taken over 43 I think. And ever since then we've been taught, these guys are the worst people in the world. We should go there and do nothing but kindness. So it does make you distrust what you're taught in the media.

KATHLEEN: Yeah, definitely. Well, we're getting ready to wind down. So what would be one piece of advice that you would offer our audience to help them move into a different direction or to achieve their dreams to become a better person.

CHRIS: Stop thinking about it too much. I think people over plan and over, check reviews and to check this, that and the other, and again, it's public technology has done that because it's possible to check all these things.

CHRIS: But I think people might take so much time planning and when you do that, all you're going to find is reasons not to do something, rather than reasons to do it because you'll see all the problems with something. Just get off your ass and go and do it rather than talking about it and reading about it, just go and do it.

KATHLEEN: I love it. So how can people get a hold of you, Chris?

CHRIS: Well, my Facebook and Instagram is going the wrong way, but my website's Chris Donaldson dot world. But again, technology has brought us Amazon and the best place to get my book is on Amazon. It's available on audio ebook paperback, of course and hardback. So, Amazon going the wrong way by Chris Donaldson, you can be there somewhere.

KATHLEEN: Well, thank you so much for Chris for coming on. I know we got a little late start, but I'm so glad that you made it on I enjoyed your tales and I love that. Just get off your ass and do it because that's really what it comes down to is just do it already.

KATHLEEN: I want to say thank everyone for watching today and joining us with Chris. If you got any value out of the show, please send the link to your friends or family and please subscribe to the channel. I would really appreciate that if you have any comments, I'd love to share comments because I do pose questions and I'd love to hear what you have to say.

KATHLEEN: My books, dancing souls, the call awakened and the and the dark night of the soul are all on Amazon and Kathleen M Flanagan. So please check them out and the the call is still a free ebook from the book launch from a couple of weeks ago and check out Kathleen M Flanagan for all the lists of services that I do provide. And there is a three minute destress, sound meditation.

KATHLEEN: So feel free to download that at your leisure and then awakening spirit and grandma's natural remedies. Just enter bold, Brave TV, into or Brave TV, into the coupon code for the discounts and we will see you next Tuesday at 4 p. m. Eastern Standard Time and from my heart to yours, I hope you have a fabulous week.