Home Therapy: Designing Spaces that Nurture Relationships | Anita Yokota

00:00

When I started taking on, you know, true interior design clients and just interacting with them, talking to them, and then most of all seeing how they relate with each other and having to put my designer hat down and put my therapist hat on to help them decide colors, to help them negotiate the budget with the contractor, or you know, it was literally 50% of my job was...

00:28

kind of being their home therapist, right? Welcome to another episode of the Life Shift Podcast. If you're new here in these episodes, we like to explore the moments that shape and redefine our lives. Today's guest is Anita Yokota, a licensed therapist turned interior designer. Anita's story is a testament to really embracing change and finding a way to follow your passions and allow life to kind of steer your path.

00:56

even when it kind of goes away from that original plan. Her career has seen unexpected twists and turns and a lot of them really great, but throughout each shift, she stayed true to her core value, which was really a deep desire to help people. Her journey began in a home buzzing with creativity and design. She was the daughter of an architect and a watercolor artist and born into a world where relationship dynamics and design were common topics.

01:25

This early exposure kind of laid the groundwork for her unique career path, where she later merged her design passion with her interpersonal dynamics expertise. What began as a passion project blossomed into a thriving career. Her unique design approach, which prioritizes the relationships within a space stems from her therapy work. She realizes that the spaces we inhabit and the relationships we form within them are deeply interconnected.

01:52

Before we start the episode, I want to thank Bryan and Dream Vacations for sponsoring one episode a month. There is a tier on the Patreon page where you can sponsor one or two episodes a month. I also have tiers that are three or five dollars that will give you access to different things. And really the Patreon is there to help me as an indie podcaster doing this all myself to be able to cover some of the costs of the equipment and some of the software that I use.

02:17

or to try to grow the show through marketing and those kind of things. So if you're interested in supporting the show directly, please head to patreon.com forward slash the Life Shift podcast. And if you're interested in an amazing deal on a vacation or something like that, reach out to Dream Vacations, my friends Trapper and Shane, and the link is in the show notes or you can follow them on Instagram and Facebook at YourVacationHeroes.

02:42

So without further ado, I want to introduce you to my friend Anita Yokota. I'm Matt Gilhooly, and this is The Life Shift. Candid conversations about the pivotal moments that have changed lives forever.

03:07

Hello, my friends. Welcome to the Life Shift podcast. I am here with Anita. Hello, Anita. Hi, Matt. I appreciate you being a part of the Life Shift podcast. This is a few months in the making. In the life of a podcaster, sometimes these months slip by really fast. And I know that you've been on multiple podcasts before sharing your story. But hopefully, we have a different kind of conversation today on the Life Shift. I really enjoy, and I know the listeners enjoy, kind of picking a part.

03:37

in a good way, the before and afters of some of these pivotal moments that either happen within us or happen to us or happen around us. And I think if we're lucky enough, we have the ability to reflect on those moments and see how they have shaped us. And I've, you know, I was telling you before we started recording, you're close to the hundredth person that I've been like, so very fortunate to.

04:06

talk to and learn from and kind of understand how much more we all have in common than the differences that sometimes the world tells us are there. I 100% agree with you. When I was, I still am, but when I was actively, you know, a licensed therapist seeing clients, after a while, human behavior becomes a pattern, you know? So whether it's.

04:35

a married couple, the dynamics of an extrovert and introvert, parenting issues with teenagers in particular, or just individual issues of intimacy and connection or depression, anxiety. Not to generalize, but when you see thousands and thousands and thousands of hours of face contact with people and their human experience and emotions, after a while you're like, oh,

05:03

Okay, I see this pattern, I've seen it before, so I totally agree with you. You know what's fascinating about that, and then we'll get into your story, is just having been through a long grief period after losing my mom and then within that, moments of depression and anxiety and those pieces, I recall feeling so alone. I just felt like I'm the only person that feels this way, when logically you know.

05:32

But it's so weird that you can know all this, but still feel so isolated and so alone, even though you know, like, you probably also, you know, as a human have gone through moments where you're like, I've seen, I've talked to people about this, yet I still, you know, it's so weird being a human. It is, I mean, it's crazy how our mind, I think our minds are so powerful because our perceived reality versus reality.

06:02

The chasm can be so big, but it feels so real, right? That perceived reality can be super skewed. And for me, I'm a feeler, I'm an empath. So every feeling is reality. And I've learned finally, through years of therapy and just over time. Processing, right? Yes, that, okay, not every feeling that I have is true or accurate.

06:29

And testing that and taking some time to flesh it out instead of, you know, is important because otherwise it impacts your decision making. Oh, gosh. I was just on another podcast recently and I was reflecting on the hasty decisions that I've made in that like spiral feeling. So you're right. It's now I've just learned.

06:53

you know, at this point in my life, I've learned to just honor how I'm feeling at that moment and understand that like I'm going through something and something needs to process instead of instead of making really hasty decisions that I'm like, why did I do that? Yeah, I'm an Aries. So we're the Rams. We like to go full force into like the the we're the first with ideas. And I'm finally realizing Oh,

07:19

Okay, it's great to have that creativity and that impulse to break ground, but also it's okay to slow down and not expect Rome wasn't built in one day. Your idea isn't going to have a resolve. You're not going to have a beautiful home in a day. All those things, which I knew in my head, but in my heart, I wanted it now. Yeah, I get it. Yeah. And I think...

07:46

this is a good segue into kind of sharing your story of like, there were probably things in your life where you're like, I want this now, but it like took a while for you to find this new space that you're in. So maybe before you kind of paint the picture of what your life was like leading up to this moment, maybe you can just tell us just a little bit about who you are right now without giving away too many details because I love that before and after. Okay. So I am a licensed therapist turned into your designer.

08:15

And right now I work with lots of lovely clients renovating their spaces, their homes. But I come from a very different perspective when I design. I really uphold the relationships that live in this space. So first and foremost, when I go into a home, I ask them more questions of not like just about the dilapidated cabinets, the flooring, but it's more like, well, who lives in here?

08:45

What are the relationships like and what do you want to get out of it? You know, at the end at the end of the reno, how do you see your relationships flourishing and how do we get there? So it's it's so much fun. It's it's really fun, especially when and just like in therapy, when the clients are open and they trust me, I do my best work. Yeah. And I think, you know, we'll obviously get to how this this marriage of.

09:11

different areas came to be. But I think that's so fascinating to think about the value that they each play into each other, right? And understanding human dynamics at the level that you did and all the experience that you had and how that can play into it. Because you see a lot of these HGTV shows in which it's like, everyone wants the same thing, right? Everyone wants that, what is it, like coastal farmhouse or, you know, like.

09:40

open space and knock down, everyone wants to knock down every single wall in their house, except for the outside ones, but to understand like why they want to do that. Or, you know, I love having the family over and we love to create these moments together and then you're able to help them with that. So that's so fascinating. So I'm excited to hear how you got here because I'm assuming you started in one space and you added the other piece to it. So maybe you can kind of paint the picture of what your life was like.

10:08

leading up to this moment that you really feel was something that pushed you into this new space? You know, even as a child, I was highly intuitive. And so I came from a very creative family. My dad's an architect. My mom's a watercolor artist, even though by vocation, she was a real estate broker, which was in the home space. They were immigrants. And even though...

10:37

You know, it's not like we had lots of financial options, but they loved just switching up the furniture in our house. They loved going to real estate, like open houses on the weekends. That was how they bonded was because my dad's an architect, you know, they talked about design and things. And so I think by osmosis, just being born into a creative family like that.

11:01

was really fun and interesting. I pretended my room was a New York City loft, you know, so there was all that background. And then as I got older, I realized I just loved helping people. And through my family's relationship, I guess, basically my parents divorced and that impacted me a lot. And I experienced counseling myself and saw how impactful it was, how it

11:29

positively impact and healed my relationship with my mom and my sister. Slowly down the road, maybe my dad. He's an odd bird. We have a good relationship now, but we're very open with what his emotional limitations are. How old were you around that time just so I can get a framework? It was probably the worst time to have my parents divorce. It was around 13. So you were going through your own changes. Yes, and that's such a great time to have your

12:00

father figure there and he really wasn't. Again, now I can talk about it with more at a healing point but back then it was very hard. It's really really hard and as an Asian-American therapy and I think even in the American culture back in the 90s therapy was not as accepted. No it was like almost like a shame. Even my own experience like with a dead parent it was like you do the checkmark counselor at school but like no one's taking you to...

12:29

therapy because what are you going to uncover? Right? Yeah. Everyone's afraid of that. Yes. It was such a stigma. But good for you. I mean, I have to credit my mom. So she, again, had the wherewithal to take us to family counseling because she just, she really cared about our emotional health and our mental health. And so that was our first experience with counseling. I saw how it helped me and I wanted to

12:59

got my graduate school degree here in California and was just, you know, on my way to become a therapist. And, you know, I thought that was mapped out and that's it. And then I had three kids. And that really... You were doing like, you were doing the American dream thing. You were doing, like, you go to college, you get this great degree, you go to, you get your graduate degree, you probably, like, met somebody, you got married, you know, like, you're checking all the boxes.

13:28

I'm checking all the boxes. Funny thing about kids, they really suck every brain cell out of you. So. In a good way or bad way. In a really great way. It's such a fulfilling way. But I was very aware of my emotional plate and it was quite full. So after my third baby, I just, my sister is my biggest art director, cheerleader. She's my everything. She's, we're 18 months apart and I'm older.

13:58

And, but she, you know, we just have conversations. And I said, I don't know if I can go back to doing counseling because I don't know if I have the emotional bandwidth to take care of them and take care of myself and take care of my family. So she said, you're so into design. All your friends are always asking you where the best home goods are. You know, like you're just that design friend. And I'm like, ah.

14:27

who's getting, you know, she's like, start an Instagram account. Like, no one's going to see me on Instagram. What are you saying? And at the time, my furniture was baby spit up, you know, like it just was like it was not aesthetic. You were just surviving. You had three kids. I was just surviving, but I still had that passion to help my friends and still decorate my home in the season that I was in. So.

14:52

That was my pivotal moment was one particular conversation with her. I remember just driving, I was hands free, but I was driving and she was talking to me in the car and I, it was down the street in my, you know, getting to my house. So actually every time I passed that point, when I'm making that curve towards my house, I think of our conversation. That's amazing. Yeah. So talk about pivotal moment. Yeah.

15:22

Like, I guess part of me thinks, you know, there are some careers that people have that you're like, how did they do that? Like, how do they get paid to do that? Was that ever like, because like when you think of a therapist or a counselor or a medical health professional, what's the right term, I'm sorry? Clinician. Okay. Therapist, licensed therapist. Licensed therapist, there we go. You look at that on paper, you're like, yep.

15:52

get it, schooling, everything good, golden. But then there's these other careers, like a designer, interior designer, you're like, there are degrees and there are things like that, but also, was there part of you that thought that's, like, never considered that because you're like, that can't be a career. I like to do it, but can that be a career? Or were you inspired? It was, honestly, it was that Aries-Ram moment of like, well, I'm just gonna try it, Gloria, my sister Gloria.

16:20

Gloria says to try the Instagram account. So I hadn't even thought that far about career. Had you ever thought about doing design for others? Honestly, it wasn't until things started like naturally falling in place that I'm like, oh, people would ask me to help them. And if you were to think back on it, and I did get paid for a few of them, you know, so, but again, I had my full-time day job.

16:49

So to me, this is just like a moonlighting, like a passion job, a passion project. I never thought, oh, I'm gonna pivot now. It just didn't get to that point until I made the leap of faith of like, okay, I'm actually just gonna try this Instagram thing. And honestly, I didn't even think I was, even in my mind, I'm like, I don't even, at the time, I didn't even think about social media influencer, nothing. All.

17:18

I thought about was I want to share my creativity. Okay. What was the first thing you did? Oh my God, you would laugh so hard. Tell me, I want to laugh. Oh my God, so we had two microfiber sofas because we had to get microfiber because we had babies. How old were your kids at the time? At the time I had a five year old, a three year old and my third baby. So this is kind of

17:48

When I started Instagram, yeah, OK, a little bit older, maybe like a seven-year-old, a five-year-old, and a newborn. Wow. Yeah, so you needed microfiber. OK. Totally. And it was green. And it was big and poofy. It was like two lazy boy sofas. Right. Like you went to Rooms to Go, and you're good. Yes. This is really dating me, but I don't know if people remember Levitts. But it was like Levitts. JC Penney Levitts. We've all been there.

18:17

Yeah. So it was great though for our family style. So I overcompensated by going to Target and just stuffed the sofa with tons of pillows. And I had started my account during Thanksgiving. So it was all kinds of holiday, you know, I would, I, it was, I'm so proud of myself, right? Like I didn't know social media, I didn't know taking pictures, but I used my Canon, I used the nicer

18:48

niche use their iPhones and stuff. So the quality was my quality ended up being a little bit better. And I often think I wonder if that's what set me apart a little bit. But honestly, it was it was literally just listening to my sister and go, okay, I'll try it. I'll start an Instagram account. But even with the social media part, it wasn't like I'm going to be an influencer, I'm going to be a content creator. I know. Did you so you're leaning into that?

19:18

and you're kind of starting to build something, at what point did you realize both of these worlds could actually work together? Was there something that was like, oh, I got it now? When I started taking on true interior design clients and just interacting with them, talking to them, communicating the, and then most of all, seeing how they relate with each other and having to put my designer hat down and put my therapist hat on.

19:47

to help them decide colors, to help them negotiate the budget with the contractor, or, you know, it was literally 50% of my job was kind of being their home therapist, right? So that's when I'm like, oh, and then, so many things came back to me because when I was an intern, I, as a licensed therapist, I would do home visits. And even in my home visits,

20:17

therapist, I was helping people organize their front entryway because that was where the parents screamed the highest and the loudest at the kids for cleaning up. That's so interesting. Even in a private practice office, we would always talk about certain areas in the home making that the neutral communication hub. I was doing so much of my interior design method now, but I really think it was born

20:47

those sessions, it was crazy to think how the universe knew way, way before I did. Yeah, it's so interesting because it logically makes so much sense, right? Like because people spend, especially now, people spend so much time in their houses and to understand how we can use these to serve us better as humans is like, it's not just like, what backsplash did you choose, but how is that?

21:14

choice going to affect you and your feelings and what is it gonna elevate in you in those kind of moments. But I'm thinking back to when you said you were having this conversation with your sister and like what was it that was so overwhelming at the time or that you felt like that was the moment and not six months prior to that or when you had two kids or when you had one kid? What was it about that time period in your life?

21:44

98% ready to say I need a break from doing therapy. But I didn't know where to land and what to what. It was scary to just say I'm going to because even financially, right? Like, it's like, I can't just stop my job. But I think my sister and I talking and this was probably maybe our 35th conversation, but finally going.

22:14

oh, but you love design so much. That gave me the confidence to go, oh, okay, maybe there's this alternative. It's not so scary. It is still scary, but I have some formidable thing I can try. It's not brand new. Yeah, it's not brand new. It was already kind of in the works for a long time. Something I was familiar with, something I loved so much. And for me too, I found my heart fluttering

22:43

leaping and excited about design. But it felt, I felt a little guilty feeling this, even though I didn't have to feel guilty, but just straight sitting in an office, talking to clients and helping them in that manner, that environment just made me bored to tears. It was not creative. I just wasn't as happy. But to think that I could help those same people, but in a different environment where I'm out and about, I'm...

23:12

It's always changing, right? The projects are always changing, and the dynamics are always changing. That was very exciting. Now, it's, you know, I don't know if you're gonna wanna admit this out loud, but was, you know, I think when you are serving someone so much or serving a lot of people so much, and then, you know, you're hearing very similar things, and as someone that is like an empath,

23:42

You're absorbing a lot of that. Yeah, I've had probably, at least with my other colleagues, I've had lots of therapy. Since I started therapy as an intern in graduate school through my mid-30s, I did intensive analysis, which is four times a week. I did cognitive, I just like, I really wanted to be the best therapist for others, so I wanted to work on myself. But even so, you're human.

24:10

So as an empath, you're just absorbing so much and by the end of the night or by the end of the week, I was just dead. And to come home to three little ones and then manage the house, it was a lot. Well, you don't take your hat off, right? Because technically you're still coming home with some of that therapist mindset, right? Because you want to maintain some kind of like stasis in your home in which that...

24:39

everyone stays sane, you know, in the case of little kids, I don't know if you can ever do that, but at least as adults, you want to make sure that, you know, there's some kind of normalcy or comfort or open communication. So you're really never, I think as a therapist, does the therapist ever take their hat off? We do different rituals. Like some people take a long drive before they get home. So there's different ways to take off that hat. And you should take off that hat.

25:08

But again, we're human. So if there's a case that's really intense, or there's what we call, you know, transference or counter-transference from the client to you, and you just can't shake it off, because that happens, that's, it's just, it's a load. It is, yeah. No, and it's, I think it's, there's a lot of thankfulness in therapy, but there's a lot of people that look at therapy as, like a,

25:37

like a devil, like as a bad thing, right? Because they're afraid of what's gonna come out. Yeah, it's scary. It's scary to find the vulnerability. Yeah. But I think when you find it, it becomes like your comfort blanket. It becomes something that you want to wear with pride, but it's that like in between, you know? It took me a long time to be ready for therapy, but you know, I was in my early 30s, I wanna say, when I finally was like, okay.

26:07

It's time. Two decades later, I think it's time to unload. And I credit therapy for the trajectory of my life changing in the sense that we uncover, and you're going to be like, duh. And everyone is like, duh. But in the moment, you just don't understand it or until you've realized. But she was, we talked through the whole thing and all the things I had done throughout the years. And she was like, you realize that you're making every decision as that eight-year-old. And I was like,

26:35

And my whole world started unraveling. And you're like, oh yeah. But it's like, until you're ready to hear that, you're not ready. You just need it at that right moment. And it's so wonderful. And what I kind of think is maybe, or I'm questioning, I wonder, did going into design and helping people in this way, did it reignite anything in the therapy space for you in a good way? Oh my god.

27:05

I think it reignited my passion to help others. I definitely already was helping others. And I knew deep down inside, I would never stop that desire to help others and be in the community. To me, helping and volunteering, like I volunteer with my girls once a month, that's just something I'm very passionate about. But that modality of in the office.

27:33

That modality was just not me. I realized I am truly first and foremost, the creative. I really, really love creating and I love to use my creativity to help people. I love that you do that in the way. And I wonder, do you know others that do it in this? Like, do you know anyone else that does what you do?

27:58

I don't know anyone who's a licensed therapist. There's many people who are life coaches and maybe they dabble in the design, but what's been told to me and what I've seen, I haven't really seen a licensed therapist and interior designer, so that is super exciting to be trailblazing this idea and method. My clients love it, my audience loves it, and I just.

28:25

I love helping people. That's really bottom line. What was it like when you got your first real client? Like what was that experience like? For a design client? Yeah. So for the styling clients, you know, before I made the formal entryway into design, that was kind of easy for me because I'm so, it's intuitive, you know, I...

28:51

This is more like decorating, you're talking like styling is decorating? Yes, decorating a room, it's just more aesthetics. I think the first time I got my real construction home renovation client, super thrilling, super exciting. I was paired with a great contractor, so that gave me confidence. But you know, just learning, I'm not a math kind of person, but when you're doing construction, you have to be better at math.

29:18

Things like that, so that was a little more intimidating. Yeah, so there was definitely a huge learning curve. But the great thing about construction is that you never know what's gonna be behind the walls when you open it, but in general, the order of things like demo, here's them would do the insides of the, infrastructure, plumbing, electric, there's a order that then is pretty predictable. So then it just got less scary.

29:47

And I'm a pretty good project manager, you know, so it just kind of tapped into all of my skill sets naturally. And again, seeing the clients tell me that their relationships flourished and it wasn't just pretty functional things. That's what made me happy. Yeah, it's a nice validation, too, that like, oh, this is it's like it's a nice checkmark. It's not one that we're seeking like awards for or trophies or anything like that. But it's like, oh.

30:17

what I feel and what I think I'm doing is actually working, you know, in like, in that way. And people's lives are being changed. Not only, you know, they can sell their house for more money now, when eventually, but also they're like, like you said, their relationships or the feeling. Yeah, they text me, you know, I'll get texts saying, that was the best Thanksgiving. We had 25 extended family members and it was the most.

30:46

effortless Thanksgiving because of that kitchen reno, you know, and that to me is golden. When you jumped into it, were you always jumping into it with the therapist mindset or were you more like, okay, I need to do get them what they want? You know what I'm saying? Like was there like a space where you're like, should I do this? I am so relational.

31:16

I noticed this about myself even. Everything that I experience, I think I experience that I prioritize the relational level. So when I'm asking questions, even on our first visit with clients, it's almost like I'm giving them an intake form from the therapy, our first intake session, same thing. So.

31:41

Part of it is just my training when I'm with people and I'm asking questions about how they live in the space because even when I was in the office, I would ask, how's this space serving you? You guys are telling me you're fighting all the time in the front entry or you're telling me you're fighting in the little bathroom with one sink. Give me a description, you know, and I would need that visual because I'm so visual. So I think it's just in me to emphasize relationships first.

32:11

and then it just, then it translates into the functionality and aesthetics. Now, you can tell me that if this question is a little off the wall, but do you think if your parents didn't get divorced and you weren't forced into therapy that you would be where you are? Do you think that that experience of being helped inspired this whole journey for you? So my sister and I talk about this all the time and I don't feel like it's necessarily

32:40

divorce per se, but I think hardships like for you, it was the death of your mom. I don't want to assume, but I'd like to guess, respectfully guess that your perseverance level, your grit level, your stress level is higher. Your tolerance for stress, your tolerance for life trials is probably higher because of the experience and the tragedy that you went through. So I think.

33:10

For sure, I would be a different person if life was just hunky dory and I didn't have as many. Now, it was not fun. It was dirty and like emotionally raw and tangled and depressing and anxiety producing and just, it felt like hell. But looking back, I see different people in my life who've had smoother lives.

33:38

and I can see their reaction to stressors, even when I, you know, at work, right? You see different personalities and if there's a work stressor, like you can see how I would respond versus a person who maybe had less experience with high stress. Part of me thinks that, you know, I think of like teachers in the sense of like your story, like having a good experience, good, we're using this word good.

34:06

a good experience in therapy in which you felt that it was healing. You felt that that was productive. You felt that without them, maybe you wouldn't be who you are because they kind of guided you down whatever road. I think of it as like a teacher coming into your experience at the right moment in time. Like I've talked to someone on the show about how she this girl had tough home life. She was bullied every day at school like.

34:34

just every day, nonstop. And the day she was ready to quit, she was never going to come back. She was going to drop out of high school, never come back. A teacher just happened to walk by her in the hallway, pulled her aside and said, hey, you look, something's happening, what's up? And she said their story. And he's like, give me a day and give me, come back tomorrow, write me three poems. And she wrote three poems. He submitted it the next day with her.

35:04

and she got a scholarship to the school of her dreams. She was able, and then her career, everything changed because of that interaction. Had she tripped outside and not been walking in that hallway at the same time, and that teacher, so that's where that question comes from, maybe not the divorce, but the experience of that therapy brings you to this.

35:30

ability to help people change their homes and their lives in their homes. Yes. And that first therapeutic experience was just the tip of the iceberg. It was really an evolution and a journey. And each time I entered therapy, either with a new therapist or a different season in my life, I remember so many times I'd be talking to the therapist, be like, but we've, I've already gone through this.

35:57

Why am I going through this? As far as why do I react a certain way? I thought I was done. And they're like, no, that doesn't happen. You're never done with your emotional work. You're just never done. I had this fantasy of just like, yeah, I've arrived. We all want the quick fix. We want the solution. It's not possible. But had your mom said,

36:25

were going to therapy or you're going to therapy, but that person was just terrible. You might've had a bad taste about therapy. You might've been like, an angsty teen, I can imagine. If it was a bad experience, you'd be like, screw therapy, I don't need that. I can, whatever. And then it's just so fascinating to me that our lives are literally like one decision or one person away from a totally different experience. And just to kind of give you an interesting perspective is again, this is where

36:56

it's proof that perfection, nothing has to be perfect. So the therapist was actually a psychiatrist that my mom brought us to. He was a little bit older and we were 13. It's like, first of all, you don't even wanna be there, right? So it was really just only, I remember like only three sessions and he would have one with all of us, one with my sister by herself, me by myself and my mom. And so that was our first experience.

37:25

And then when we were 17 or 18, we found another therapist. And it was that round of therapy with my mom that was when we really started hitting a stride. So when you're talking about that pivotal moment or when a mentor comes into your life, it was like we needed to experience that first awkward therapist, psychiatrist, and

37:55

Somehow that kind of opened it up a little bit, but it really was that second family therapist that healed the three of us. And I remember us watching the Joy Luck Club together and where the three of us were bawling our eyes out. I mean, and we were half embarrassed, but just the other half was full of love for each other and appreciation and used up 5 million boxes of Kleenex. But I remember thinking, gosh, you know, if we weren't in counseling.

38:24

The three of us, you know, right now, I don't know if we would have cried together during that movie. Were you a helper before these moments? Like early childhood, you always wanted to help people? My God, like there's family stories. I have three younger girl cousins, and then it was my sister. And even at like, I think it was like five years old, no joke, they would be in a cardboard box and I wanted to be like the big sister.

38:52

and pull them down the hallway for fun. Like that was their ride. And I was just, and I was sweating and the adults were like, Anita, you don't have to do this. And I was fine. I'm like, no, no, no, they're having fun. Well, I mean, you know, sometimes, sometimes you're just, you're just born with it. And it sounds like- I'm definitely born with the, wanting the help. Now learning the boundaries of that is a different story. Well, good thing you're in that space.

39:21

And you understand, but it's hard to do it for yourself, isn't it? It's, you know, like you said in the beginning of the podcast, understanding versus doing, and having that mind body connection and finding that balance that works for you, for you, is a journey. What's the biggest difference between like Anita now, like doing the, doing the, the renovations and

39:50

using your background and the version of you that was feeling very burnt out. You were still doing probably a great job and helping people in great ways, but kind of like, it's a little mundane. What's the biggest difference in you? I think there's being just fully owning my creativity and not being afraid that it's a lesser than perfect. I mean, how do I say this? Interior design is a wonderful profession.

40:19

But, you know, I worked hard for that master's degree and it was very like scientific in a sense. It's emotional but scientific and it was very like proper to doing something super creative. Owning that identity and feeling happy has opened up my heart more just even to myself. That vulnerability, it's not easy being vulnerable. I don't blame anyone who's scared of therapy. It is scary being vulnerable and

40:50

Whatever is your authentic self, finding that is, it's a journey, it's a lot of bravery. So I feel like though I really am at a place where I'm at my true self and that authentic place. And so what comes with it is an openness, a less need for control, even though there's still a little, you know, naggy feelings of like, ah, how do I, I need to control this.

41:19

So less control, less focus on perfectionism, less focus on external, which is kind of funny because interior design is all about external reveals of the house, you know, like on HGTV. But yeah, just less focus on external outcomes and emphasizing more of our internal rhythm and cadence. Yeah, you know, part of me thinks,

41:48

I get so wrapped up in, and I think a lot of it comes, stems from my childhood experience, but so much, and I talk to a lot of people about this too, like this society's checklist, kind of like what you experience, you know, like you did all the things, you checked all the boxes. And so much of my life for a long time was very performative in the sense that that external validation, I need to prove to everyone that I am worthwhile or that I, you know, I got that degree with merit. You know, like.

42:17

And it sounds like maybe that, or were you that way, like in your profession is like more of like, because you were like, it's scientific, I can't be an artist, like who, you know, like those kinds of things. I think we have those feelings. I think that was my, that was probably my mom's voice, you know, like being an Asian American, I, this is not a stereotype, it's, it is a stereotype, but it's also true, you know, like we were always taught, like be a doctor, be a lawyer, be, you know, like be very,

42:47

If you're going to do therapy, we'll get your PhD, which I didn't. Because of the status or because other people would see you as something? I think for, I don't know about, I only know from my experience as a second generation Asian American. I know for the first generations, it's more of like establishing yourself in a new country and being, feeling like you're adding value to society and feeling like you have to.

43:16

prove to American society that you're worth being here. You know, it's that immigrant mentality. At least for my parents, they just wanna be this upstanding citizen. So I'm allowed here, you know, it's like that. So then it's like, oh, my kids have to be worthy too. So, well, what are the best, what are the upstanding vocations, you know? And that, you know, I think some of that feeds into

43:44

then they can tell other people that you're doing this. Maybe not your family in particular, but I think there's that, you know, you have a really successful, whatever the world determines as successful child, you can talk about that and like, look, it feels very performative in the way that a lot of people operate. And so that was kind of like where my question, early on when I was like,

44:08

how do people get to that career? And like, is that a career? And you know, and then like, I feel like we were just like brought up in this as a creative or an artist, that's not real. You know, like it's like fantasy. Yeah, it is fantasy. But as you can see, plenty of people, even in the interior design industry, majority is self-taught. You know, you look at all these really successful interior designers, majority of them, especially,

44:35

you know, are self-taught. So that gave me the freedom, knowing that they were self-taught, that I could delve into this profession without going to get another degree, because just time and energy and money-wise, I was like, I can't do it. I don't want another degree. That's what I did during the pandemic, you know, but that was- But that was good for you, it sounds like.

45:00

Yes, I got the degree mainly because I thought my brain was turning to mush because I was not doing anything. And so, but I got this podcast out of it and I feel like this is the journey that I never knew that the eight year old and me needed to have these conversations with people. And, you know, your story is so fascinating because it just shows you that there are connections that we that most people would not even imagine that can work together in that.

45:26

you might be super passionate about something and you might be really smart in a particular area, there actually might be something that people can put together to create their own world, that you're, I mean, you're creating your own world. And now I bet there are people that are looking at you and going, hmm, that's possible. Like you're creating possibility. Yes, my, I had a conversation with my, one of my professors in graduate school in therapy.

45:55

in my graduate program and he's like, I really want to invite you to come back because I want our current students to know that they don't have to have everything figured out now. Because there's a lot of therapy students who, the paths seem very like either or. Private practice, nonprofit organization, work for the county, work for the state.

46:23

That's all the, and a lot of them feel ambivalent, you know, and so he wanted me to come back and share my story so people can see that it actually can be something super different and you're not wasting your time coming here and getting the degree that you want. Cause I think there is pressure after you graduate, like, what am I gonna do with this? Like, I don't know if it's 100% this or that.

46:52

Well, and I think creating your own path like you did is very much about your willingness to say, like, look, I like doing this, I'm good at it, but it's not serving me in the way that it needs to right now. And I just wanna give it up, even though I love it. And having that ability to be honest and open with your, I mean, it makes sense, because this is the space that you live in and this is what you do.

47:18

But for a lot of people, I don't think we're ready to be that honest with ourselves. It took me a while. Yeah, I would imagine. Even with me, it took me a while because I felt guilty that I was leaving something that I worked so hard for. It was so many hours of, especially the city of California, it requires a lot of hours face-to-face contact with clients to meet the requirements. And I bet a lot of people would be like,

47:48

Why are you doing that? And then you gotta answer that question. Oh, it was funny. You know, there were friends who graduated with us and they weren't, it was not disparaging but just more like questioning, right? Like, well, why would you do that? You know, like you, or like, well, I don't see how this is gonna, they didn't say in so many words, but like, how is that gonna work? You know, like you're just gonna start an Instagram account.

48:18

I don't know, I'm just gonna do it. Yeah, so. But I think you have to trust yourself. I think you have to have the understanding of your abilities and your willingness to go into the unknown. I think a lot of us would choose the known path because it's easier. I mean, if we wanna assign a word to it. And what you see in your story is like, you hit this breaking point, but you were willing to listen.

48:48

and try something where I think a lot of us hit this breaking point and then we're just like defeated, you know? And I think there's a difference there. And I think that's important to hear from your story is that like this came about because you were open enough to think that there could be something else. And I really like the words you used enough, you know, because it wasn't like I was perfect at you know, it wasn't like, yeah, I'm open now. It was more like, I'm just gonna do it.

49:18

I have no idea. I'm jumping into the deep end. I have no idea, but I'm just gonna do it and we'll see. So yes. And we'll have a lot of pillows on our couch. We just put like 40 pillows, Thanksgiving pillows from Target, you know? It happened, but I think that's important. I think, you know, I was saying earlier, like I did have in those spiral moments, I had a lot of hasty decisions. And it's funny how much other people's opinions played into that.

49:46

in which there was a situation where I was just spiraling and I had moved states and I got this job and I hated the job so much because the owners were just not nice people. It was just a very toxic environment and I had just gone through enough toxic experiences that I just quit. I gave my notice, but I left and everyone, no one was like, oh, why'd you quit? No one was asking me how I felt about it. It was all-

50:14

how are you gonna afford to live without a job? And all these questions that were like, I don't care about, like, I care more about this. And, you know, so I think there's, there is that piece of like society playing these games with us in which we care so much about what all those other people are saying that it sometimes muddies up what we should be doing. I mean, again, when you say performative or how we...

50:41

are supposed to look or appear or function. It's just human, right? It's just human to do that, but it's been a huge journey for me to shed that skin. And I continue to have to reshed many times a day. Yeah. And being on social media is not easy. I'm not a Gen Z-er, you know? So like.

51:09

just having to talk myself through that is a daily routine. No, I love it. I love your story that, I don't know, I think it's so cool to find two passions and be able to merge them together. And I think that there are people listening that probably have those two things. You know, they have two things that they could put together and be a trailblazer. I...

51:37

My biggest encouragement because I get a lot of questions like well, but how did you make that? How did you make the pivot? How did you make the change? And I said I Was just willing to listen to my intuition And step at a time one step at a time and if you go with your gut And there were trial and errors, but if you really just go with your gut, I went with my gut You know, I just went with my gut and I was open That's scary though

52:05

going with your gut. It's super scary. Someone else, because someone said, well, how old were you? I didn't give my exact age, but I think I was just more young and stupid, even if it was only six years ago. It's amazing how six years you can wise up a lot more. So I think the question to me was, would you do it now? And I'm like, I don't.

52:30

I don't know, it's a really good question. Like would I do it now? Because you know when you get wiser, you get a little more cynical. Yeah, but also you're not in the same emotional state about your experience. So it's like, it's hard to compare that. I mean, I feel like if I'm in a desperate, not desperate, but if I'm in a space in which like, I need something to change. You don't need something to change. So it'd be hard to like make this pivot right now and get back in that feeling of like,

52:58

I don't, desperation is not the right word, but it's like, is there something else? You know, like I need something else. Exactly. And I feel like we're more willing to take those little, like, I mean, make a little Instagram account, start posting pictures. People are paying attention. Maybe I should post a little bit more. And then it's kind of like podcasting in a sense, like I'll never go back and listen to my first couple episodes just because you're like, you don't know what you're.

53:23

You don't know how these conversations are. You don't know what your voice is. You didn't, you probably didn't know like how to approach this. Like, I don't want this to feel like therapy, but it is, you know, like, and then you find your space and then you create it and now you're here inspiring others by both your work, but also just by what you're doing. I think it's so cool. Thank you. Thank you so much. Yeah. It when I allow myself to really feel the depths of this.

53:54

It is a lot of hard work, obviously, but in a sense, like just this opportunity to meld my two life experiences together, my creativity and my passions. It's pretty mind boggling. It's pretty cool. Yeah, to be, I get it, to just, I don't know, I think it's, I think it's really cool. And I can't quite imagine it yet. But I hope to someday feel that in which it's like, yeah, this is a lot of work and it's really hard, but it's paying off and I feel really good about it.

54:24

And it seems like that's kind of the space that you're in right now with all the successes that you're having and whatever you determine success to be. I think that's important as well. Yes. And not what your mom thinks it is. 100%, I was just gonna say that. What success is to me versus what others that are important to me perceive or what my old self perceived versus what my current self perceived because there's a lot of that going on. So, I've come to a point where it's like,

54:54

My mom's external voice is not really there anymore, but it's the old Anita or it's the small Anita. Those voices are still mini battles every day. Yeah, I mean, I think that's healthy though. I feel like we don't wanna be up in the clouds all the time. But I think it's, all the pieces of us are still gonna be there and we need to kind of play nicely with them and battle them when we need to.

55:23

You know, that eight-year-old version of me is still around. I didn't realize that he was until I started doing this podcast, how much healing he still had to do. But I walk with him now, you know, and it's not like a shame thing. It's not a sad thing. It's not I feel bad for him, but he's still there, you know, and there's still things that that he'll come out. And that's what I'm playing with on that day. You know, I really love how you say that you're walking with him. That's something I'm going to start.

55:53

saying to myself. I love that. It took me a while to get here. You know, and I think this podcast and having these kind of conversations made me realize that that situation was 100% out of my control. The people around me didn't have the tools, so they did the best they knew how to do with what they knew. And there's no blame there. So we just went through this life and maybe it didn't work.

56:21

It had to take me decades to get here, but I'm grateful for the experience. I'm grateful for what that tragedy taught me. I'm sure you could look back on this experience of your parents splitting up, and there's probably something in there where you're like, okay, well, if that hadn't happened, maybe I wouldn't be this way, or I wouldn't, you know, and so it's important for me to look back on a tragedy and see that there were good things that came from it. And so we're just saying.

56:50

It's so weird to say. I know it is, but I don't know if I would have.

56:58

Yeah, there's so many details, but I don't know if I would trade. Maybe the intensity could come down a couple of notches, but I don't know if I would trade my own life experience, right? It's made me who I am. I know, and it's terrible. People ask me, like, if you could go back in time, I'm like, first of all, I can't. But no, I wouldn't. I wouldn't go back and change things because I don't know where I would be. Yeah. My life.

57:25

My parents lived thousands of miles away. Like my life completely changed because she died. And so I would not change things. And that sounds so terrible to say, but this is the version of me that I am because of that experience. So I totally get that. And I'm saying it out loud so other people can feel fine to say that out loud. And it's important to own that. Yeah, I think acceptance is... Hard.

57:53

I think acceptance is what we fight the most. But the minute that we accept, then there's that freedom. Now, I love your story. I think I like to wrap up these conversations with a question. And I'm wondering if the version of Anita that was kind of like, I am tapped out emotionally. I can't do this anymore. If you, this lighter version, this version that's in your joy.

58:20

could go talk to her before you had the conversation with your sister, is there anything you'd want to tell her? I would say, don't be so hard on yourself. You know, just, my friend's brother, he's from the South and he says, sweet baby all the time. And so that's our little joke. We call each other sweet baby. I'd be sweet baby, you know?

58:47

Don't be so hard on yourself. And I think there's a product, I think a lot of people would understand that feeling. I think we do absorb a lot of responsibility for things that are out of our control and things that, you know, and then we blame ourselves for things we think should have happened. So that's nice that you'd be so kind to her. Yeah, that it just, you know, less judge, more kindness.

59:15

towards yourself and value yourself. You know, I don't think I really wasn't, it's not until this, my home therapy book coming out really gave, you know, it really taught me to appreciate myself more because it forced me to appreciate, there was a physical thing that I built and worked towards, because a lot of times helping people, it's not necessarily like a shiny, formidable.

59:44

this concrete object, but this book that was Blood Sweat and Tears came out and it really forced me to say, no, this is an endeavor. I did this, which I always downplay what I do, blah, blah, blah. Don't do it. This journey with the book has been really, it's not natural for me, but now I'm finally owning it and it feels really good.

01:00:12

Yeah, it's like telling your story for the first time from beginning to end, even though your book is not quite that. You know, you're putting it, it's in words from here to here, and now everyone can read it, and now you're like, here's my world for you. If people are interested in like connecting with you, reading about the book, or what's the best way to get in your orbit and kind of see what you do? So my Instagram handle is about, not about, it's at.

01:00:41

My Instagram handle is at Anita Yokota. My website, AnitaYokota.com, is, you know, I write lots of fun things, blogs, posts and things about design and mental health. And as far as getting my book, it's sold wherever books are sold, online and at stores.

01:01:01

Can they get it if they go to your website? There's a link to it. Yeah, yep. There's a link on my website. Absolutely. Perfect. Yeah, well, so we'll include all that in the show notes for anyone listening. I can't wait to get in your orbit on Instagram and everything, because as we said before, as my listeners know, I don't like to know much about you. I like for this to just unfold as we're talking. So I appreciate you being willing to do this experiment that I call the Life Shift Podcast. It's really just so fulfilling.

01:01:31

to just meet people like you. And then I just feel like we are now friends or we're in this, because we've had this deep conversation. So I just appreciate you. Thank you for trusting me to come on here and have a conversation. You're welcome, Matt. This was absolutely a pleasure to be here with you and your listeners. And I feel a deep connection with you now. Well, thank you so much. And I think she's just saying that. I'm just kidding. I do, I do. For those of you listening,

01:02:01

I'm not going to ask for ratings or reviews. I think if you would share this episode with someone that you think is kind of in this creative space or they're in a career that they do love, but they feel like there's something more, maybe hearing Anita's story will kind of spark something in them. So maybe share this episode with a friend. And with that, I will say goodbye until next week when I'm back with a brand new episode. Thanks again, Anita. Thank you.

01:02:38

For more information, please visit www.thelifeshiftpodcast.com