Losing Hair, But Finding Strength and Authenticity | Rebecca Lerch

[Matt Gilhooly]

Hello, my friends. Welcome to the life shift, Podcast. I am here with my friend Rebecca and we are going to probably talk about some pretty impactful things this episode, but we're also going to laugh because this is something that we do pretty regularly. So thanks for being a part of this, Rebecca. Okay.

[Rebecca Lerch]
I'm really excited to be here, Matt.

[Matt Gilhooly]
And so you know this, but our listeners don't. This is our first time meeting.

[Rebecca Lerch]
Yes, officially, it's very exciting to actually see you face-to-face through the computer.

[Matt Gilhooly]
Because we have been chatting for a while now, I'm not sure how long on LinkedIn and kind of just talking each other through these journeys that were going on. One is you're currently looking for a kickass position somewhere in a leadership and a development position. And I'm doing this podcast thing. I don't know if anyone knows that's listening that I have a podcast.

[Rebecca Lerch]
Wait, what? I thought we were just having a conversation here. This is being recorded.

[Matt Gilhooly]
So we've been talking and we joke around pretty much every day to kind of get through the mess of what happens on a regular basis for those people looking for jobs and for those people navigating the LinkedIn waters. But I am thankful for LinkedIn that we do have this connection.

[Rebecca Lerch]
Yes, it has been great, and I think it's been a couple of months now that we connected on LinkedIn. And I think the first post I remember commenting on of yours, you were talking about whether or not you should walk in your graduation ceremony. And then we started conversations about podcasting because, as you know, my boyfriend also has an indie podcast. So kind of found a connection there. And yeah, I feel like we have very similar senses of humor and perspectives on LinkedIn in the world and job searching. And it's been great to kind of have somebody as a supporter there who, even though we've never met before today, I know that you're in my corner and you know I'm in yours. And it's been a really rewarding experience, 100%.

[Matt Gilhooly]
And I didn't pay her to say any of those nice things. And you know what's funny is that post. So anyone listening? I made a post on LinkedIn over the summer because I was really conflicted about walking for this master's degree that I did during the Pandemic, which I've been calling my pandemic masters. And that got a lot that got a lot of attention and it changed my mind and I actually did did end up walking. So thank you for participating in that. But everyone's like, you need to start celebrating these things. And I guess I just had discounted it as another check mark, which I think you can agree with. Sometimes we get caught up in just achievements, like done. I forgot about that, actually. And so you just brought it up. Thanks for reminding me of my shame from the summer.

[Rebecca Lerch]
No problem. And it is definitely something to celebrate.

[Matt Gilhooly]
And so we're not here to talk about us on LinkedIn, so we're here to talk about your pivotal moment or the time in your life in which you made a decision to be an even better version of yourself or a more authentic version of yourself. And so that's as much teasing as I'm going to do before you kind of give us a little bit about you and what you were like or what your life was like leading up to this moment, and then we can go from there.

[Rebecca Lerch]
Sounds good. So I guess I'll start I can go way, way back, but we can follow up with that history later on, so it's not as relevant. But going back to about 2016, 2017, I was going through a really rough time in my then marriage. Things were not going south very quickly and going through a lot of stress. Then in early 2018, I made the decision to end my marriage after some other life shifting events that are topic for another day. And at the same time, our daughter was in first grade, and we determined we were going to stay in our house, live as a household until the summer, let her finish out the year. So then it was the stress of, number one, living with somebody that I knew we were not going to have that kind of a relationship anymore. Navigating it with a six and then seven year old as she was processing those emotions and looking for a completely new place to live. So in the summer of 2018, I moved three times. I was, I think, technically could be considered homeless, although I was subletting some poor grad student studio apartment for about a month between when we sold our house and closed on that and my lease started on my actual apartment. So there was a lot of stress of moving and getting storage units and cleaning out this house that had been our first family home that our daughter learned how to walk in and talk in and start a kindergarten in and all of those big feelings. And then because that wasn't enough. At the same time. The position I was in at the time. The organization was going through a huge system technology conversion that required my team and I. I was overseeing our learning and development area to do training for about 200 employees. To make sure that's all yeah, just a couple small, pretty small. No big deal. To make sure that by the time the systems converted at the end of the year, we were up and running. Everybody was functional. So there were a lot of late nights, early mornings, working weekends, just putting in all of these hours in the meantime, navigating being a single parent, then eventually starting to date again. So it was just a lot.

[Matt Gilhooly]
Yeah. Holy cow.

[Rebecca Lerch]
Yeah. I look back on especially the summer of that year and think, I don't know how I did it, but I did it, and I'm in a much better place for it. But it was definitely stressful.

[Matt Gilhooly]
I think a lot of people can relate to, like, when you're in the moment, you just kind of make things happen, and then you look back and you're like, I don't think there's a way that I could do that. Like, I feel, how did I do that? So it gives you a new perspective of, like, how badass you are.

[Rebecca Lerch]
Yeah. So then kind of throughout that year, and I think I realized I really came to notice it at Halloween and at my former organization. Halloween was a big deal. There was a costume contest, prizes. Everybody tried to compete to see who had the best decorations in their area, the whole nine yards. So my team and I decided to do the wizard of Oz. And I was Dorothy. So I had my cute little blue dress, and I had red shoes, and I tried to put my hair in two braids, and they were, like, so teeny. I was like, oh. And I had always had thin hair. Growing up, I probably remember being in middle school, high school, and being like, oh, my ponytail isn't as bouncy and fluffy, and I can't really do the big 80s bangs like all my friends can.

[Matt Gilhooly]
Darn.

[Rebecca Lerch]
I know I really missed out on that look, but at that point, and as I was fixing my hair for my Halloween costume, I was like, oh, okay, this is kind of not good. But I hadn't noticed, like, huge clumps of hair falling out. I apparently just been steadily losing it. In January of 2019, I was out with friends, and we were taking pictures, and I'm looking at the pictures online the next day, and I'm like, Good Lord, like, I can see more of my head than I can see of my hair. And I freaked out. And so then I started googling like crazy. And I had tried hair restoration, if you will, Rogain and essential oils and stuff like that, in the past.

[Matt Gilhooly]
Prior to this?

[Rebecca Lerch]
Prior to this, because, like I said, I had always had really thin hair. So after my daughter was born and then after I stopped nursing her, there's kind of that common postpartum hair shed. And so that had happened at that point. So that's when I was like, okay, well, let me just do this. And that really did help for a little bit, but obviously not for good.

[Matt Gilhooly]
Yeah. And you mentioned, like, throughout your life you have thin hair. Did you ever really pay attention to it, or was it just like, you just had thin hair?

[Rebecca Lerch]
It was just kind of like sometimes it would bother me because I wouldn't be able to have as elaborate prom hairstyles or be able to do my hair in certain ways that some of my friends who had a lot of hair really could.

[Matt Gilhooly]
So, like, in that comparison sense of society says we need to have XYZ. A woman in the 80s must have aquanita hair, like an absolute. And you put that face shield up before you spray it.

[Rebecca Lerch]
Totally. Totally.

[Matt Gilhooly]
Those were the moments of more. So did it bother you or was it more just in a comparison sense, that you just couldn't do those things?

[Rebecca Lerch]
It was more in a comparison sense. And I did save on hairspray, so I mean, there's that. But I had also noticed it, especially in college, because, as you know, and for your listeners who don't, I'm also a dancer, not I call myself an amateur professional or a professional amateur because I don't get paid for it, but I love to do it. I take it just as seriously as a lot of professionals do. Most people stereotypically think of a ballerina. They've got the beautiful ballet bun hair, slicked back, looking perfect, nothing out of place. So I noticed it in college when we would have performances and I would have to do a few little teasing tricks to make my bun kind of the standard size, so that all of the ballerinas in the core looks the same. So I kind of noticed it, but it was just kind of like an annoyance more than anything else, but it hadn't bothered me.

[Matt Gilhooly]
You figured out the ways to adjust.

[Rebecca Lerch]
Exactly. And I've been able to pass that on to other dancers who have not the same level of hair issues that I do, but who also have less hair than some of their counterparts, to say, oh, if you do this, it's going to look a lot fuller, and here's how we can make it work.

[Matt Gilhooly]
So knowledge sharing and that's interesting too. And I don't know much about the ballet space, but is there I know maybe not as much now, or hopefully not as much now, but is there that standard in the industry itself of the look?

[Rebecca Lerch]
Totally. Is it expected by instructors and especially for professional companies? I know that there is one professional dancer who's more of a modern dancer, who has alopecia, who's completely bald and she's gorgeous. She was on America's favorite dancer. Whatever that show was. That was on for quite a while. But in terms of ballet, there very much is that your hair is pulled back and everybody looks the same. There are even some companies that will have their dancers actually wear wigs of buns, so they all look the same. So I know Royal Ballet has in the past for some of their productions. Luckily, the studio where I dance, it's more accepted to have dancers who have either very, very short hair or kind of hair like mine. When I perform in most roles, I'm playing a mother character or an evil villain or somebody who I can wear a wig and the audience is none the wiser. But there definitely is kind of that hair standard for ballet.

[Matt Gilhooly]
Yeah. And I don't think I mean, just from an outsider's perspective, I don't think that back then, at least growing up, maybe in your college years, I don't think it stopped at the hair. Right. I think it stopped at body size. I think it stopped at ethnic background. It stopped at a lot of places that hopefully this is adjusting. Right. This is adjusting with the time.

[Rebecca Lerch]
Slowly adjusting. There are definitely some companies that still have kind of their standards. We want all ballerinas to be between five foot three and five foot six, and dancers who are if you look at them on the street, you think, wow, she's so thin, who are told by directors, hey, you've put on a few pounds. You need to really watch your intake. And so it's an unfortunate still, it's getting better, and there is getting to be more acceptance of alternative body types, body shapes, sizes, ethnicities. But there's still a long way to go in the ballet world.

[Matt Gilhooly]
I mean, it's great that you have the opportunity to continue doing that. What was kind of the moment in which you were like, okay, my hair is thinning a lot more than it was. My life feels a little hectic.

[Rebecca Lerch]
Just a smile.

[Matt Gilhooly]
Just a little hectic. When was the moment that you kind of changed things for yourself?

[Rebecca Lerch]
So in my professional researching on Google and Instagram yes. I found several sites that talked about female hair loss and remedies and all of this other stuff. And something in the back of my head was like, I don't really believe that this is going to work for me, and I don't know that that's a path I really want to go down. Then I turned to my next favorite thing to research on Instagram. Yes, of course. So I can't remember exactly what I searched. But ended up finding all of these pages with other women. Most of whom were anywhere from mid twentys to early 40s. Who also had hair loss. And seeing other women who I could relate to. Who kind of been scrolling through their profiles. I could tell. Oh. You know. They're professional and they're successful. And they look happy. But I mean. Really. Most people look happy on Instagram. So digging into those and starting to follow those women and starting conversations with some of them in their DMs about what their experience was like, and that kind of opened this whole door to me, too. I don't have to just accept this. I can run with this. I can own this and not make it as something that I need to run away from, but as something that I can embrace as a part of who I am.

[Matt Gilhooly]
And growing up in the time period that you did, I think we were conditioned very much so, that appearance was everything. And for a woman, it's often defined, or was often defined by the hair.

[Rebecca Lerch]
Totally.

[Matt Gilhooly]
And blonde and beautiful and always starting with blonde, right?

[Rebecca Lerch]
Always blonde.

[Matt Gilhooly]
The descriptor was always the hair piece.

[Rebecca Lerch]
Yes.

[Matt Gilhooly]
So finding that strength I don't have another word for it right now, but finding the strength to embrace something like that, was that difficult for you, knowing the generation that you grew up in?

[Rebecca Lerch]
It was a bit, and it was more nerve wracking because I kept thinking, well, what are other people going to think? And again, going back to some of the women I connected with through social media, hearing them say either on their stories or in their posts, you can't care what other people think, you can only care about what you think. And if somebody's going to have a negative opinion of you because you're wearing a hairpiece or wearing a wig or shaving your head, then that's not somebody you need in your life. And also hearing them say, in the grand scheme of things, nobody really gives a fuck what you're doing as long as it's not impacting them negatively.

[Matt Gilhooly]
Right, it's true. But people will people will make guesses or perceptions of how any of us look. So, I mean, at the end of the day, who really cares, right, if those people are doing that anyway, what was your first step?

[Rebecca Lerch]
I had reached out to a woman who actually lives in Australia who is one of the big kind of hair loss influencers. She kept popping up as I was researching and slid into her DMs and asked about a piece that she was wearing. And she gave me the name of a company that's based in New York that makes human hair wigs. And they're also called so there are wigs which cover your entire head. And then there are also something I'd never heard of, which are called Toppers, which for those who have enough hair, you can clip it into your regular hair so it kind of fits right on top of your head. It clips in it as a comb in the front. If you have enough hair, you can blend the front of your hair so that it matches and it looks completely natural for most people. So she gave me the name of this company. I went on their website, I did some more research, read more reviews, and ultimately bought a topper. Then it came and I tried it on and I was like, oh, my God, I've never had this much hair in my life.

[Matt Gilhooly]
Did you like it?

[Rebecca Lerch]
I did. I actually really liked it. And now, looking back, it was probably the one that had the least amount of hair of any piece that I bought since then because I didn't know what to expect. I bought it and I did take it to my hairdresser at the time who had been kind of talking with me about my hair loss as the years have gone on. And she styled it, kind of shaped it a little bit more and made it look more like my hair, just a whole lot more of it.

[Matt Gilhooly]
Was this related mostly to the stress and the anxiety that you were going through, or is it a true condition that you may have?

[Rebecca Lerch]
I think it's probably a bit of both. I think it was triggered by the stress, the anxiety, the major changes that were happening in my life over a couple of years. But I think there also may be some hereditary components to it. I don't know of any other females in my family who have hair loss, but I know on my mother's side, my paternal grandfather, as well as both of my uncles on that side are my grandfather was fairly bald when he passed away. My uncles both have very nice shiny heads, and so I think there could be some elements there. I will say I've never actually gotten an official diagnosis because I didn't feel it was necessary. It's kind of like, I know what it is. I don't need a medical professional to say what it is. I remember at one point bringing it up to my primary physician when I went in for a physical or something, and she just kind of dismissed it as, oh, yeah, it's no big deal. Some people lose their hair as they get older. You're fine, because it was kind of like, well, you still have hair. It's no big deal. And meanwhile, I'm thinking, well, it's kind of a big deal to me. So that's kind of what led me to think, well, I'm not going to worry about getting any kind of official diagnosis because I know what it is.

[Matt Gilhooly]
Right. And two, what would that change?

[Rebecca Lerch]
Right, exactly. It's like I could check off a box.

[Matt Gilhooly]
Exactly. Yeah. No, I only ask because I'm totally ignorant to it. I haven't experienced it, and I don't know if that is something that needs to be diagnosed. Is it even treatable if it was?

[Rebecca Lerch]
I mean, there are topical medicines. There are some medications that are supposed to kind of slow down the progression of hair loss. The one benefit of getting an official diagnosis is that some insurance plans may pay or may offset the cost of purchasing a hairpiece. But luckily, I was financially in a place where I didn't need to explore insurance options. But I know that there have been other others who have been in this position who have gone that route just specifically for being able to get that doctor's authorization.

[Matt Gilhooly]
So how long ago was that first hair piece purchase?

[Rebecca Lerch]
That was in the winter of 2019.

[Matt Gilhooly]
Okay, so not less than three years ago.

[Rebecca Lerch]
Not too long ago.

[Matt Gilhooly]
Well, and the reason I ask is, for those of you just listening on audio, you are rocking a bald head. I mean, essentially bald head. And, like, it looks awesome. Thank you. Is this a regular for you or where are you in this hairpiece and non hairpiece shaving? Like, when did you first shave your head?

[Rebecca Lerch]
So many questions. So many questions. Well, then we had the pandemic happen, so I'll get to the pandemic. I know, right? I forgot all about that through the pandemic. I kind of tried different things with my hair, putting fun colors and whatever hair I had left. It was really beneficial when everything went on zoom because then I could just literally plop hair on my head 2 seconds before turning my camera on and then take it off right after, and everybody's like, oh, you look so nice. It'll be like, yeah, you're right. And then in the fall of 2020, I cut my hair really short, so I had, like, a cute little pixie cut. My daughter told me I look like Captain Marvel because it was also quite blonde at that time. And I had that shorter hairstyle for about a year and a half, and I would still wear hairpieces, but I started getting gradually more comfortable going out without having hair on, so just having short hair. And then it was New Year's Eve, 2021. My boyfriend Nick asked me to buzz his head, as I do regularly, using the clippers with whatever setting, however short he wants to go. And I just looked at him and I was like, why don't you buzz mine, too? And he said, Are you sure? Are you serious? And I said, let's do it. I was like, If I absolutely hate it. If I can't stand it, it will grow back, because my hair does grow. There's just not that much of it. So we did and the first time we did it, for anybody who's familiar with hair clippers, they have kind of different levels of settings. I think we did, like, a level three, so I had maybe a half an inch or so, and then a couple of weeks later, I was like, no, I'll take this a little bit shorter. So I went down to, like, a two, and then a few times after that, I went down to one. And then now I've just started taking, like, a straight razor in the shower and really? Yeah, and just letting it do its thing. So this is actually very recent, but this was great happening. Thank you.

[Matt Gilhooly]
What was it like the first time you went out with that fully shaved head for you? Did you feel how did you feel?

[Rebecca Lerch]
It was nerve wracking. It really was, because especially in our society, as you alluded to earlier, hair is a big deal for women. And for a lot of women, it's how they define their femininity, their beauty, their themselves.

[Matt Gilhooly]
It's how they're taught to define thank you.

[Rebecca Lerch]
Yes. And it's pretty common to go out in the world and see any number of men or male identifying individuals who have either very little or no hair. But you don't see that many women, if any, on a daily basis who don't have hair unless you see someone who you know is going through a chemo treatment or another medical treatment where hair loss is a side effect of their medical condition. So the first time, I think I totally just said, screw it, this is how I'm going to do this was actually just this summer.

[Matt Gilhooly]
Really?

[Rebecca Lerch]
Yeah, just back in July, nick and Avery, my daughter, and I were going to meet my family in Cincinnati because we like the zoo and Fiona the hippos.

[Matt Gilhooly]
You like hippos?

[Rebecca Lerch]
Shoutout to hippos. So I knew it was going to be hot. It's not that much fun to have hair on when it's warm because when I had hair, I would always like to pull it up and have it off my neck, off my face. And so I just said, I'm not going to take hair with me. So it was actually the first time officially in public was as we drove there from New York, we stopped in Cleveland and went to the Cleveland Zoo. And as we got out of the car, I turned to Nick and I said, Should I put on a hat? And he goes, Why? He was like, You've got sunscreen? And I was like, okay. So sunscreen got my nice white head because I'm really white. For those viewers or those listeners who only have audio and rocked it around the zoo.

[Matt Gilhooly]
Yeah, I know you said it was nerve wracking to think about it, but once you were out there, did you.

[Rebecca Lerch]
Just kind of like, oh, this isn't so bad? I mean, you can't tell. The animals are probably judging us anyway.

[Matt Gilhooly]
For sure.

[Rebecca Lerch]
Yeah, for sure.

[Matt Gilhooly]
And I think earlier we talked about how people make perceptions, but also, who cares, right? And probably no one really gave a second thought to seeing you with no hair, right? Because they don't know you.

[Rebecca Lerch]
They don't know me, yeah. And it's interesting that you say that, because I still even though I'm more comfortable with it, I still have that level of anxiety when I'm more local. So I can travel. I've traveled this summer to any variety of places. Gone to see family, gone to do a ballet week, didn't wear hair at all. And everybody was very cool with it and nobody gave it a second thought. But it's something about being in my own community that I still kind of I don't know if I'm going out to the grocery store or going to Target. I kind of have that in the back of my head. Oh, should I put on hair? Should I wear a hat? What if I run into somebody I know? And then I think, well, who cares? And then I'm like, it doesn't matter. It's like I post pictures of myself looking like this on social media all the time.

[Matt Gilhooly]
People know you still have that inner dialogue with yourself, but you're comfortable enough to go out however you feel.

[Rebecca Lerch]
I will kind of have to have that like, pep talk to myself, like, knock it off, just do it. I will say that I'm more likely to wear hair or wear a hat when I'm going out with my daughter because she's eleven and a half. And for anyone who's had an eleven and a half year old, it's a lot of ups and downs. And she accepts that. She doesn't care if we go out and we won't potentially see any of her friends, but she's still in that stage where it's appearances are very important. And I've told her if that's something that can help her feel more confident, then I will do it for her. But I also tell her, I don't care if your friends know that I don't have hair. I don't care if when your friends come over, you want to show them my wigs and try them on and have fun with it. But I understand that that's a sensitive thing for a kid to have to explain. No, my mom isn't sick. This is just how she is.

[Matt Gilhooly]
And again, we just need to do a better job in society of this perception of what hair, clothes. Right, right. And I would imagine that that internal pep talk is eventually going to subside. Right. Because it's been so recent. It's only been a few months, right? Yeah.

[Rebecca Lerch]
It hasn't been out there. It's been long at all. And even as being job searchers.

[Matt Gilhooly]
Yeah, I was just going to ask about that.

[Rebecca Lerch]
I have been wearing hair, doing interviews, honestly, because I don't want it to distract because it is such a societal thing. I don't know, and maybe I shouldn't worry about it, but at the same time, I want an employer to be focusing on my skills and not on my appearance. And still, seeing a woman in society without hair can be a little jarring the first time if you're not accustomed to it. Just because of how we're conditioned that women have hair and men may or may not have hair, but it's okay.

[Matt Gilhooly]
Yeah. I'm so disappointed in society sometimes when I have these conversations.

[Rebecca Lerch]
So I just can't talk.

[Matt Gilhooly]
I just want you to bring your best self, and that's what we should be doing. And if your best self involves wearing a hairpiece, and that's fine, and if it involves this current version of you right here sitting on this podcast, that who knows is going to see it or listen to it, I mean, you're bringing everything. You're bringing yourself. So I hope that one of your upcoming interviews, you'll feel you'll have that pep talk right before and you won't want to wear it.

[Rebecca Lerch]
Maybe what I can do is, you know, sometimes I'll ask that question, like, tell us something about yourself that we wouldn't know from your resume. I could just like whip it off.

[Matt Gilhooly]
I mean, you'd be memorable.

[Rebecca Lerch]
I would be.

[Matt Gilhooly]
And part of me thinks, do you feel the need to explain to. People?

[Rebecca Lerch]
Yes.

[Matt Gilhooly]
Or do you feel like you do?

[Rebecca Lerch]
I do. I do. I think because of that societal perception, and I'll admit that I've had it too. I remember when I was growing up, my sister had a friend whose stepmother had alopecia, and I remember the first time I saw her at some event that we went to with my sister and her school and seeing her friend step mom wearing, like, a scarf. And I remember asking my mom, oh, is she okay? Is she going through cancer? And my mom just said, no, she just doesn't have any hair. And then I was just saying, like, oh, okay, no big deal. But it's more of people worry what's wrong? It even happened at Avery's last pediatrician appointment. I didn't wear hair when I took her to her pediatrician checkup over the summer, and her doctor, who's known me since Avery was born, kind of looked at me, and she's like, are you okay? And at first, I was like, yeah, like, why are you asking me this? I mean and then it dawned on me. I said, oh, I've always worn hair the times that you've seen me over the past couple of years, and then just explained, I don't have any hair anymore.

[Matt Gilhooly]
Yeah. And that's probably an interesting thought, because you kind of do. You have a toe in each side of kind of this journey that you're on currently. Right. Is that you still feel comfortable wearing hair but also feel comfortable without wearing hair, and not, like, towing that line also probably makes it difficult to choose one side or the other right. Because you feel comfortable on both sides.

[Rebecca Lerch]
I do.

[Matt Gilhooly]
But at some point and forgive me if this sounds wrong, I don't mean it, too, but do you feel that you are catering to other people's needs over your own by doing that?

[Rebecca Lerch]
Yes and no. And I don't take that the wrong way or anything at all. I think that in some ways, I also feel more confident when I'm wearing hair in a lot of situations. So I think in that regard, I am still being true to myself. And sometimes I do cater, especially, like I was saying to Avery and her not wanting to have a bald mom, or she likes to say, I don't want my mom to look like Mr. Clean. And I'm like, well, I'm much cuter than Mr. Clean, so you don't have to worry.

[Matt Gilhooly]
Not nearly as tall, right, or as buff. At the end of the day, I wish we all could just be however we want to be without worrying about how everyone else feels about us. And I know that's not realistic yet, but that's where that question comes from, is, like, I've tried my best over the last couple of years since my grandmother died, to do the things that bring me joy, the things that I care about, and try to shrink the amount of things that I do to appease others or to cater to others. Your daughter is a different that's a different situation. Right. But stop caring what I think. Stop caring what all these other people think, if you can, because I think, you know, what I see now and what I know of you has nothing to do with your hair.

[Rebecca Lerch]
Right? And that's how it should be with people who have substance, I will say.

[Matt Gilhooly]
Well, yeah, we don't have many of those. So do you think that where do you think you would be in your hair journey had those situations in 2017 not really manifested?

[Rebecca Lerch]
I think had I not lost the amount of hair that I had. If assuming that it was stress related and things like that. I think I would still be living with thin but manageable hair enough that I could make it work. But certainly not enough that I would necessarily feel as confident as I do now when I either go out wearing hair or in many situations where I go out just like this.

[Matt Gilhooly]
Do you think you're a different person because of this experience?

[Rebecca Lerch]
I think I'm a more authentic person, to quote you.

[Matt Gilhooly]
How does that bleed into your life? In what ways do you feel that this part of this change in your life has made you more authentic?

[Rebecca Lerch]
I think it's just helped me embrace a quality of myself that could be perceived as negative, that I no longer see as a negative. And I think that's helped me embrace other aspects of myself, of my personality that maybe less than however you want to define them, but having more peace with all other aspects of this is me. This is who I am. It's like that song from The Greatest Showman.

[Matt Gilhooly]
What's a great movie, by the way.

[Rebecca Lerch]
I agree. I agree.

[Matt Gilhooly]
You don't have a beard, though.

[Rebecca Lerch]
I don't. I could probably fashion one into a beard.

[Matt Gilhooly]
Your confidence in the way that you hold yourself and the way that you interact on LinkedIn and the way that you approach your topics and everything is palpable, like it is something that you're putting out there. Were you like that before? And this is just like an enhanced version of you, or did you have a different kind of persona before this journey?

[Rebecca Lerch]
I think before, probably about 2018, I was more hesitant to put myself out there. I was more concerned with appearances, with how things would come across, with what others would think, and going through the very stressful situations in 2017, 2018, and with the help of therapy. Let's plug therapy because that's key for so many of us, if not all of us, and helping to see that I'm a great person as I am. And some people are going to appreciate that and others may not. And those others are the ones that I don't need to concern myself with or surround myself with. And it's okay to be me 100%.

[Matt Gilhooly]
And yes, therapy, let's plug that. I think it's getting better. I think more people are accessing therapy. It's getting a little bit less stigmatized. I would say women are doing a better job than men are, but we need to understand that therapy is not like a diagnosis, that there's something wrong. Right. People go to therapy all the time, even when things are fine.

[Rebecca Lerch]
Exactly.

[Matt Gilhooly]
And it's just this person that has been educated in that space that is hopefully unbiased to your own life and your own circumstances that can help you put things together and make sense of things that maybe are in a little bit of disorder or approaches to things, or even in your sense that you bring all the value that you need. And people that don't see it don't need to see it.

[Rebecca Lerch]
Right.

[Matt Gilhooly]
They're not meant to be part of that journey for you. So, yes, therapy 100%. I was a changed person therapy myself. It was interesting. I mean, you know the story, but everyone if you listen to episode eleven, I kind of tell you my journey, but when my mom died, it took me about 20 years to kind of grieve her loss. And the only reason I did is because I started going to therapy, like, I want to say, like late 20s, early 30s, when she died at eight, that's a long time. And I was sitting there and when the therapist said, you've been living your life as an eight year old kid, and he has been making those decisions, and I would have never come to that conclusion myself had I not gone to like I would never have done that. Right. Who knows where I would be? I had not had that person say those words to me. That would never have come up in my head.

[Rebecca Lerch]
Exactly.

[Matt Gilhooly]
Everything from that moment on changed. So I'm glad you brought up therapy. Did you go to therapy mostly for the circumstances that were happening in your life, or was it also part of your hair journey?

[Rebecca Lerch]
It actually had absolutely nothing to do with my hair journey. In fact, my then therapist retired before I even started wearing hair. So she had helped me through all of the other stressors in my life for probably about half a dozen years or so. And I think because of the support and advice, if you will, that she was able, even just that listening empathetically to what was happening with me. It helped me not just overcome those challenges, but to overcome and be more at peace with hair loss as well.

[Matt Gilhooly]
And it also sounds like because you just mentioned a little bit ago about how the version of you before and the version now and it was almost like the version of you before was very much like I was where I was just doing the check marks. The life check marks that we were raised being told that we have to do that you have to do this. And then you do this. And then you do this. And you're a woman, so you are a wife, so you have to do this, this, and this. And now you're kind of like that authentic. You're really holding on to that authentic part of you to be like, I'm doing whatever I want.

[Rebecca Lerch]
Right. And I think that's carried forward into so many aspects of my life. As you know, I left my job in April and was part of the great resignation, I guess, if you will, and I wouldn't have had the strength to do that a few years ago. I wouldn't have had the strength to say, this is no longer serving me. I need to step away. I need to find something where I am more fulfilled and I am more appreciated and valued, and that's something I wouldn't have been able to do in the past.

[Matt Gilhooly]
You're on a good journey, and I like this for you. And I only know you over the last couple of months, but your hair is nothing to do with you. No, not a thing. And I was curious, actually, whether or not you were going to come on with or without your hairpiece, and I'm glad you didn't wear it because I think this is you. And I hope at some point, I hope you don't have too many more. But in another interview for this job journey that you're on, you feel good enough to just here I am. This is it. And I know you feel great in the hairpieces as well, so I'm not telling you not to wear those, but I also I hope we get to a point in which other people don't care either.

[Rebecca Lerch]
Right. And I hope that as well.

[Matt Gilhooly]
Like, I showed up to work the other day. I had to go to work that's so I had to go to work, and I get close to work, and I'm a male, and we can have whatever hair we want with no society issues. Right, right. So I pull up, and I'm like, I didn't put any product in my hair, so I'm going to work with bedheads.

[Rebecca Lerch]
Oh, no.

[Matt Gilhooly]
Nobody said anything, but I feel like it would not be the same. People would question or nobody cared or I love that you have this authenticity. I think you're probably teaching your daughter things that she doesn't even know she's being taught right now.

[Rebecca Lerch]
I hope so. And I hope that she thinks of her mom as this badass who can do hard things and shows up.

[Matt Gilhooly]
She won't tell you for a while.

[Rebecca Lerch]
Oh, no. Well, she will, but it'll come out. Instead of a mom, I think you're so awesome, it'll come out, but as mom, I really hate you. I just hear others between the lines in my head, but I hope that and she's even said, mom, am I going to lose my hair? And I say, I don't know. I said, if you look at other women in my family, my mom, my sister, her grandmother, and her aunt on her dad's side, I mean, they all have all their hair. I said, So you might, you might not. I was like, and if you do, then I'm going to be there to support you, just like you've been here to support me, and we'll get through it together.

[Matt Gilhooly]
You're teaching her the things besides the hair, right? All these things are a byproduct of this experience that you're going through, but she most definitely sees you as a badass. So I don't know her, but I'm going to guess that, like, in seven or eight years, she'll let you know.

[Rebecca Lerch]
Maybe I'll go with ten over, under, let her get through most of college, and then maybe she'll realize, like, oh, mom wasn't so dumb after all.

[Matt Gilhooly]
Yeah. I can't remember when I started thinking that about my family members. Right. I don't know at what point I was like, oh, they did mean well.

[Rebecca Lerch]
Yeah. I remember I texted my mom not too long ago and just said, I'm sorry for everything I did between like, 1990 and 1999.

[Matt Gilhooly]
That was a rough period of time, but at least we didn't have social media. We didn't have to worry about that.

[Rebecca Lerch]
Thank goodness.

[Matt Gilhooly]
Yeah. So I like to wrap these calls up and you know but if you could go back to the version of you standing in front of the mirror getting ready for your Halloween, putting your hair up, what could this version of you say to her?

[Rebecca Lerch]
I'd be like, Girl, just buy some hair, stick it on your head and rock it. You're going to be awesome. No matter how you look, no matter if you have one strand of hair on your head or a big thick head of hair, it doesn't matter.

[Matt Gilhooly]
Do you think you would listen at that point?

[Rebecca Lerch]
Maybe a little part of me would listen. The other part of me would just be like, and I want hair. It would be like that whiny eleven year old in my head.

[Matt Gilhooly]
Yeah. I think we're all on this there's intention, I think, in these journeys that we're all going on, and we have to hit certain pieces of these journeys to really get those nuggets of information or the qualities that we want to have in ourselves. And we wouldn't have these qualities had we not gone through these shifts in our life.

[Rebecca Lerch]
Very true.

[Matt Gilhooly]
I'm sure you agree.

[Rebecca Lerch]
Yes, definitely.

[Matt Gilhooly]
I don't know how to word this. Sometimes when I talk to people about their life shift, I ask if they're grateful for the experience. Is this something, do you feel that going through this and having these internal pep talks and teaching your daughter how to be a badass, no matter what the top of your head looks like, are you grateful for this? Or is there some part of you that's grateful for the experience.

[Rebecca Lerch]
I think I am. I don't know if I would have said that three years ago or four years ago, but I think it's something that I've embraced and that I feel has made me a stronger person and a more confident person. And I'm glad for this journey, and it's also been kind of a fun new way to accessorize, you know, I want to be a red head one day. Okay, I'm going to have red hair today. I want to be blonde today. I'm going to be blonde today. So it's something that I've tried to always see the benefits of once I got past the, oh, my God, this is so scary. It became something that is just a part of me that I'm glad I have.

[Matt Gilhooly]
Yeah, it adds to your character. It adds to your story. It adds something, like you said, that allows you to feel however you want to feel. I appreciate you sharing the story. I think we haven't had anyone talk about this and how that affects, and I think so much of your story really relies on society, right. And society just advancing to the point where these things don't define us.

[Rebecca Lerch]
And I feel fortunate that I've come to this acceptance and this embracement of my hair loss because I've also been able to help others. Even a couple of weeks ago, or maybe a week ago, I posted something on LinkedIn and had a few women reach out that I hadn't connected with before in my messages and thanked me and shared that they were going through this and was able to offer them some words of encouragement and just saying, hey, if you ever want to talk about this, I'm here. There's somebody else who knows what this is like, and I'm here to be a supporter for you. And there's a woman who I've never actually met in person, but she lives in my area. We connected on a hair loss group on Facebook, and I happen to notice that she had the same city as I did. So we friended each other and started messaging. And every once in a while she'll reach out and say, I went out without hair today, and I felt really good. And I'm like, that's awesome. Or she'll say, like, oh, my son saw a picture of you without hair on Instagram. And he was like, oh, Mummy, she's pretty and bald like you. Just being able to kind of help others is something that has been a nice reward, too.

[Matt Gilhooly]
Yeah. And you're really helping. Kind of. My goal starting the Live Shift podcast was to help people listening, not feel like they're going through something that no one else is going through.

[Rebecca Lerch]
Right, exactly.

[Matt Gilhooly]
So the more people like you that are sharing your story, sharing how much of a badass you are and what you can do and how there are zero limitations to facing this, people can see that there is a community of people that have gone through similar situations may have solutions or advice. So thank you for sharing your story on this platform. The Live Chat podcast is really meant I want each episode to find the ears that need to hear it and so I hope someone that's facing a similar situation here's your story. Like, I'm going to do it too. I'm not going to start at a three guard.

[Rebecca Lerch]
I'm going to start at the one just do it.

[Matt Gilhooly]
Or the straight razor. That seems really dangerous.

[Rebecca Lerch]
Yeah, it's an adventure, but.

[Matt Gilhooly]
Well, I appreciate you being a part of this and sharing your story and it was nice to see you face to face.

[Rebecca Lerch]
Yes. You too, Matt. I'm so glad that I could come on and share this and look forward to continuing to listen and pimping you out to other listeners. So I wish this podcast all the success.

[Matt Gilhooly]
Thank you so much. And if you are listening right now and you're all the way at the end and you're enjoying this podcast, please take a moment to rate and review on Apple podcasts or rate on some of the other podcast platforms. Apparently it helps. So I appreciate any ratings or reviews that you can give and we will see you next week on the Live Shift podcast.