Overcoming Stigma: Living Well with Bipolar Disorder | Paris Scobie

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wanted to distract myself. I was like, I'm just running, I'm going, I'm going, if I do all these things and I won't actually ever have to deal with it when really you eventually will break down and you can't keep going the way that you're going. And that is what happened when I was 19, when I was hospitalized, when I was taken to first it was an urgent psychiatric center and then they transported me to a hospital. Then I was court ordered treatment. I was terrified. It was the most scariest.

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experience to be in that hospital, in those rooms. But today's guest is Paris Scobie. Paris is a beacon of hope and resilience in the mental health community. She's a mental health advocate. She's an author. She's also the host of Live Well Bipolar podcast. Her story is about overcoming stigma, embracing her own experiences and really turning her personal pain into a platform for change.

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She opens up about her experiences with bipolar disorder and the path that led her to create her platform, Live Well Bipolar. Paris bravely shares her experience of being sexually assaulted at the age of 15. This event, deeply buried due to societal shame, really had a profound impact on her mental health. But today she speaks candidly about her struggles with body image, perfectionism, and ultimately her diagnosis of bipolar disorder. She's turned her trauma into a force of good.

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using her experiences to fuel her work in mental health advocacy. Through her podcast, she provides a platform for others to share their experiences, helping to normalize and destigmatize mental health discussions. Before we get into the episode, I want to thank my two episode a month supporters on Patreon. That's Miki, Traci, and Emily. Thank you for your support. If you are looking to directly support the show, please head to patreon.co/theLifeShiftpodcast.

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and you'll find all the information there. So without further ado, I'd like to introduce you to my friend, Paris Scobie. I'm Matt Gilhooly, and this is The Life Shift, candid conversations about the pivotal moments that have changed lives forever.

02:17
Hello, my friends. Welcome to the Life Shift podcast. I am here with a brand new connection, Paris. Hello. Hello, Matt. Thank you for having me. Thank you for being here. And we were supposed to do this last week and I appreciate you. We had a little snafu with the internet line here. So, you know, we just roll with the punches here. That's what we do in this life. And I was just gonna say that too. Like, I feel like life is like a bunch of punches that sometimes we have to just go, okay, I can absorb that and I can move through and.

02:45
Your story today, I think, is a series of punches, but also things that you've adapted to. And I think what I have learned in the Life Shift podcast journey, this is like 120-something episode that I've had the opportunity to talk to other people that I didn't know beforehand. And I've just learned the resilience that we have as humans and the things that, before they happened, were like, I don't think I could survive that.

03:14
or we hear someone else's story and we're like, oh my gosh, that's so much worse than mine. But yet somehow we all kind of make it through. So it's just been so inspiring. And I know you're a podcaster and you've kind of felt the same way as well. Yeah, we were just talking about that, right? Cause I mean, we hopped on and you said happy anniversary cause today is the four year anniversary of my podcast, Live Well Bipolar. And we were talking about this because I said, I didn't realize starting this journey, like how healing and

03:43
therapeutic this would be for me. I was thinking, you know, okay, I'm opening this stage up for others to share their experiences, I can help others, but really, I was doing the same all along. And I feel like that's something that we can really relate to too on this journey of just what it even means to me and why I even started this. Like, why did I start Live Well Bipolar? Where was I before it? And where am I because of it?

04:09
I tell people this a lot. You know, I started, the idea of the show comes from the fact that when I was eight, my mom was killed in an accident. And I, my life was 100% different the next day because my parents were divorced. They lived in separate states. Like nothing was going to be the same for me. And growing up, I always felt like I was the only one to go through that experience. But by the time I made it to like my forties, when I started this podcast, I was like, okay, he's, he's healed. He's good.

04:38
And then as I have more of these conversations, I'm like, oh, I didn't realize there were still parts of that eight-year-old boy that needed healing and needed to come along on this journey. So I feel the same. It's just such a nice little selfish blessing of having the ability to have these conversations and not only help the person telling the story, like you sharing your story is probably healing in its own way, but also for me and for the listeners, it's just like, who knew? Who knew that this could be?

05:06
such a healing space. You know, you think of podcasts and you're like, huh, healing. I love that connection that you make with it because especially when you bring up those pivotal moments of changes and the good and the bad, because we're always gonna have that good and bad, but I feel like that's really what I try to look for is those moments of hope, because I feel like no matter how much work I do, I still have days where I feel.

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run down and hopeless and I'm always looking for ways to continue to restore that. And I feel like these conversations do that and they do it for me, they do it for you, they do it for the listeners. And it just really helps all of us see that whether it's you say your eight year old self or you know, whatever age we were when we experienced an event, tragedy, trauma, whatever it was, giving that our younger self those things that we

05:59
We're like, oh, I thought I healed from it. I thought I'd been doing the work, but then there's still this thing that's coming up. So it's always going to be a continuous process. And I know you totally understand that. Humanity, right? We're evolving beings. There are things that we're gonna go up, down, and all around. And I think that I'm just so glad that we're here. And you telling your story, I think I know a little bit about your story because we had a little bit of back and forth. And I...

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admit to all the listeners that I don't do the research because I want these conversations to unfold. But what I do know of your story, I think is so important that you're sharing it and that you've created a platform where other people can share your story because I think, and I'm kind of like talking around it because I kind of want to, but in a sense it feels like we're lessening the stigma that has existed for so long in some mental health diagnoses and medications and.

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and all these things, and just like kudos to you for sharing your humanness with everyone in hopes of helping other people. So in that sense, maybe you can tell us a little bit about who you are right now and what you do so that we can kind of jump into the story. Yeah, so to answer that, so who I am right now. So currently right now, I'm actually going to be celebrating my one-year wedding anniversary in four weeks.

07:22
I've been with my husband five years now and that is something that I will get into a little bit. Never thought that I would ever be able to have is a loving, healthy, fulfilling relationship because of my struggles I face mental health wise, a lot of things like that. But also I have my podcast, Live Well Bipolar that I started four years ago. And really the whole reason I did this is to mainly to share my experiences because I still had a lot of self stigma that I needed to let go of.

07:52
to be able to be the person to show others your story and life has value. And from doing that, I actually ended up becoming something that I really never envisioned for myself. I really never thought there would be a place in my life for this thing, which is an author of my book, Crooked Illness, Lessons from Inside and Outside Hospital Walls. So it's pretty funny, I...

08:17
I didn't know what to call my podcast when I started. I was in my parents' backyard. If you listen to the first episode, there's rocks crunching in the background. And I was like, wait, you need to name this thing before you release it. And I was like, okay, well, I'll call it Crooked Illness. And then that was the name of my story that I was writing on a Microsoft Word document, just trying to get it out there. And I feel like I have realized my value and the purpose for my life through...

08:45
getting uncomfortable and getting out of my box and starting the podcast. And from there, it's been this ripple effect of me saying, I'm done doing the same things I've always done because I'm clearly not happy. I'm clearly still struggling. There's many areas of my life that I'm trying to understand but running away from it. So through starting the podcast, through sharing my story and my book, and also speaking professionally for NAMI.

09:11
They are the National Alliance on Mental Illness. So I go out to different high schools, middle schools. They have different opportunities for me to come out and share my experiences. But this point in my life, I can honestly confidently tell you I am happy. I am fulfilled and I am actually still dealing with something right now health-wise. I'm actually, the last couple of days, I've been feeling great, back to my normal self, but.

09:40
I had some stomach gut issues that have been going on for the past set almost two months now that really took a big hit for me about three, four, it was actually almost a month ago is when it really, really took a hit for me. But what I learned is I am able to navigate that just as I learned how to navigate living my life with bipolar disorder. When I first got my diagnosis, I didn't believe it. I was scared. I was ashamed.

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started learning what was going on with my stomach. I felt the same exact way. And I said, you know what? I feel hopeless and a lot of struggle right now, but I've been able to do this thing. I can do this other thing too with support from people around me. Yeah, no, that's fascinating and congratulations on your book. Thank you. That's no small feat. You know, I think that that when did you release it? It was two years ago. Yeah. Oh wow.

10:34
That's awesome. Thank you. But I think, again, back to this power of story and the things that it can do for us. And sometimes the stories that we tell ourselves are much scarier when they're in our head. And then when we put them out into the world, whether that's professionally speaking or writing your book or doing your podcast, you're like, oh, I can conquer that or I can move through that. But when it's stuck up here and it's going all over the place, it's very scary. And I think.

11:02
I think a lot of people can say that because society has put so much shame on certain things or like assigned us shame that we didn't assign ourselves and we were just like, okay, I'll take it on and I'll move through the world with this. So good on you for all that. And I think you kind of snuck your pivotal moment in there a little bit, but maybe you could kind of give us like paint the picture of what your life was like leading up to what you feel really changed things for you.

11:29
Yeah, so you actually said it perfectly when you said stories are often scarier when we tell ourselves to ourselves in our head than to the world and we say it and we do it out loud and we're like, wow, it's not really what I thought it was or what I made it into be. So to give you some background on me, so I am 28 years old right now. I was actually first diagnosed with depression when I was 16 years old and then I was not diagnosed.

11:57
until I was 19 years old when I was hospitalized, put on court-ordered treatment with bipolar one disorder. But I went through a sexual assault when I was 15 years old and I feel like that is definitely something I internalize when you talk about the shame that society assigns us. I did. I believed that I was, and I remember a part of this is because I had opened up to...

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friends in my school and some family and things like that. And what I got back was, well, look what you were wearing. You're a slut. You put yourself in this situation. And I really, at first, at first I was like, wow, that seems... I was upset, crying. It seemed really cruel. But I feel like you don't know any different when that's your whole environment. When you're in this environment where you're getting that same message.

12:48
you really start to think that it must have been something I did. So you know what, for me, I was like, I just need to minimize this. I need to tell myself it could have been way worse. I could have been killed. I really just ran away from it. I shut down. Yeah, I completely shut down. I would go out, party, drink, you know, all that the phase people often experience in their early teens, late teens, things like that. So

13:16
That was my life from 15, 16, 17, 18, and then 19 was the hospitalization. And prior to my hospitalization, I actually brought it up in, I was seeing a therapist and then psychiatrist. And to give you some background, I used to think that I was misdiagnosed with depression, but actually I never had a manic episode until I was 19. So how are you supposed to diagnose someone with something that when it's not even

13:45
It's not there, right? So yeah, so I remember telling my psychiatrist when I was right before my hospitalization, I was saying, well, I think that I could potentially have bipolar disorder. I know this is genetic in my family, but I was like, I think this because of this. So I was like, I was working two jobs. I worked, I was a cashier, I worked in room service. I went to school full-time, I got straight A's, I had.

14:14
a boyfriend who I fought with every single day, by the way, and friends, but I was drinking, partying. It wasn't meaningful relationships or connections, anything like that. So I remember saying this and my psychiatrist was like, no, there's no way you have bipolar because of you're getting good grades. You're working. You're basically on paper. I looked great. So it's like, oh, well, what? And I was like, but I'm functioning.

14:42
Yeah, I'm like, I'm not sleeping well. My thoughts are racing. Whenever you Google bipolar and you see, oh, grandiose thoughts, racing, I was having that. I felt almost invincible in a way. And I was bringing this up and I just feel like I was never listened to. I was just told no, no. And I feel like I was like, you know what? What's the point anymore of trying to tell people how I feel when you're always told, look at how good you're doing. And it's like, but I'm not.

15:09
And I feel like, what do I need to do to really have some change? And I wasn't even in the place where I was wanting to do the worker change. I just felt something wasn't right. And no one was listening. Yeah. And you're like, this feels weird. Like I shouldn't be doing all this stuff and here's what's happening. And everyone's like, well, no, you're fine. Just like when you had your assault as a couple years before that. It's like people were too afraid to confront that with you.

15:38
So they use their little masking of, no, it must be, everything is fine, you were just provoking it. You know, like, talk about having the wrong people around you and not supporting what you need. Right, and I always like to be really transparent too, is because of that, right, like 15, 16, 17, 18, I struggle with, it escalated to the point from at first being just negative thinking, then suicidal thoughts, then actually going,

16:08
going through an attempt, a lot of struggles with my body image. So just not liking myself, the way I looked, any of that. So I was never actually diagnosed with any type of eating disorder, but I definitely would take things to the extreme with, I want to be, you know, maybe if I stay a certain size, people will love me or like me or something. That's kind of my thinking was so warped at the time. Was it more to get like that approval or do you think it was more to avoid another assault?

16:37
Because I've heard both, you know, in sense of like, people are like, I'm going to just say, I'm just not going to eat so that I don't have shape so that therefore it won't be my fault, you know, kind of thing. And curious. I think so. That's a really good question. And I think for me, it was just approval and perfectionism on my part, because I've always been this very, and I think with just like school, with with with grades, like getting very good grades, like always being that kind of like achiever. I was an athlete. You know, I was used to like

17:07
putting on a good face. And I feel like for me, it wasn't so much, I think I had like stuffed the assault so far back that I was like, I just, it wasn't real. And I would have these, I think for my way of coping with that was, it was, I thought it was a good way of moving forward, which was actually making it worse because I would go out and I would sleep with more people to the point where people were actually getting feelings for me and wanting a relationship. And I'm like, I don't, I don't.

17:36
want that. And I think it was because of again, I never worked on the root of what happened with that assault that I was carrying it over. Yeah. I mean, it sounds like you wanted to control it. Like they can't do it to me if I'm doing it or I'm allowing this or I'm moving through this. It's our minds are protecting ourselves. And I understand the overachievement too. I think.

18:00
that that is a piece of getting that acceptance. It's not even about, oh, I'm smart and I can do these things. It's rather like, I have to be as smart as possible so people don't dismiss me. Because I'm sure you were getting dismissed all the time in certain things. You're like, no, but I'm doing all these, I'm working two jobs, I'm getting good grades, I'm doing all the things. I think that's a really good point that you bring up because I feel like I definitely, I feel like I was just, I wanted to distract myself.

18:28
I was like, I'm just running, I'm going, I'm going. If I do all these things and I won't actually ever have to deal with it when really your body, your body keeps the score. There's a book you eventually will break down and you can't keep going the way that you're going. And that is what happened when I was 19, when I was hospitalized, when I was taken to, first it was an urgent psychiatric center and then they transported me to a hospital. Then I was court ordered treatment, all of this stuff.

18:55
I was terrified. It was the most scariest experience to be in that hospital, in those rooms. But I feel like after it happened and I came home, at first I was like, maybe I should change the people around me. But I feel like I went back to my old self, which was still like, again, Oh, look at my, cause like you don't have your phone when you're in a psychiatric hospital.

19:25
So I got my phone and I'm like, wow, look at all these messages from all these guys or all these people. They missed me, you know? But it's like, they don't really value you. They value the fact that you go out, you're wild, eccentric person to be around and you're sleeping with them. They don't even wanna take you on a date or actually get to know you. It's just, and I didn't even care. I really did not value myself. I just kept going, going, going. And I just, I didn't realize how continuously that was damaging me when I finally did.

19:53
actually meet my husband five years ago, but that was when I was newly into doing the work. So that was 19 years old to give you some context, the hospitalization. So then I came home from the hospitalization, 19, 20, 21, 22. So I had four years where I continued doing the same things. Let me just keep the same people around me. And it was also because I didn't have awareness into it.

20:22
I just knew I wasn't happy, but I thought that was normal. I thought everyone lived like that. A lot of people do. And I think that we kind of see that and we absorb that. But I think there's so much trauma that you went through, that deep-seated thing. It's like this constant chase. If you keep going, you don't have to stop and think about it. It's like, I understand the running, the running, and then you sit and you're like, I can't be quiet.

20:52
Did you have that moment when you were in the hospital where the quiet was really hard or was it not quiet? I don't understand what that might be like. That's a good question. So it was not quiet actually. And I didn't have, I feel like for me, that moment of quiet, and I think to understand your question, are you talking about that realization of just giving myself the opportunity to feel like I can, or what was it? Cause I wanna see. Yeah, I mean, I just,

21:19
I'm curious if someone, I mean, the way you describe your life leading up to that moment was very chaotic in a way. Like it was just very, you know, 99% of the time you're doing something and you're doing something to the point that when it's time to go to bed, you're just so tired that you go to bed and then you wake up and you just do, do, do. So I was thinking, you know, and I do this because we see lots of movies and they

21:43
show us this picture of, you know, like the white padded room where it's very quiet and nobody's paying attention to you, where really it was probably just this noisy event where everyone's walking in every 10 minutes to not give you that silence. Because I think silence is scary for people. I've been in depression, I wouldn't say was clinically depressed. But in those moments when you're sitting with just yourself in the quiet, it's really scary. So now I totally understand what you're asking. And hearing you break this down. So for me, that moment of silence.

22:12
looked like, which I haven't shared with you guys yet, but I actually went back and I worked at the same hospital where I was a patient at, where I got my bipolar diagnosis, where I was put on corridor treatment. That for me, I had that moment of silence when I walked back in through those doors and I was there to meet with, it's like, oh, you're here to pick someone up and take them home or do their check-in on the paperwork and all that stuff.

22:41
So that for me, that was my moment of silence, walking through those doors and seeing the place where this is where I was for two weeks. And in my mind, that felt like a year, because you really lose track of time. And I definitely was in psychosis. So for people who don't know what that is, you literally are not living in reality. You're completely removed and you're almost consumed with. It gets to the point where

23:07
you're experiencing delusions that you, you full heartedly believe this is fact. And I was literally experiencing that during the hospitalization. So for me, that moment of silence, walking through those doors and really also still knowing in my heart that I still wasn't comfortable sharing my story or my experiences. I still wasn't comfortable fully doing the work, but I was starting it. I realized in that moment of silence, I'm in the right place, but

23:37
I need to start doing more for myself so I can show up. Yeah, because you probably saw in other people the slightly different version of you and like with a different awareness because I think we don't see ourselves in the moment. We know why you were telling that I just had a side question of like, do you think an environment like that enhances a psychosis? Yes, and I'll say that, well, it's...

24:04
And other people who have been in psychiatric hospitals might have a different answer. Their setting might be different, their environment. But for me, my experience was not good or positive. I feel and I feel that way because I was put in a place where everyone is in crisis. Like, I remember looking around me and it was the person to my left just just had been taken here after trying to commit suicide with.

24:28
rope burns on their neck. The person over here was, they just had their children removed from them for a child protective case. Everyone was in crisis going through something, whether it was dealing with suicide, whether it was dealing with addiction, which often gets very mixed in with mental health, which I think does need a separate, obviously separate attention and treatment. But that's also a downfall of the system is everything's thrown into one bucket. You're in crisis, you're in crisis, you're in crisis. And it does make it very hard.

24:56
for somebody who was willingly going in, I was not voluntary, I was involuntary. So there's involuntary hospitalization and there's voluntary for people who were like, I'm gonna go here and I think for me, it wasn't conducive to any kind of path forward because I was constantly feeling at risk and I saw many, many other people that were in there with me fighting, getting attacked, I saw blood shed, different things like this and it was very-

25:26
Exactly. Like adding trauma to that. Yeah. It was, it was scary. And I remember, I literally remember saying this when I was in the hospital asking one of the techs working there and they were like, what do you think someone's going to do? Come and guard your door at night. Like I don't know why you think we're like bodyguards. And I was just like, I am actually afraid because there was, and I remember like, I outline everything in the book, like my whole, and I literally have in there, there's italicized versions in my book where it's literally giving the reader.

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insight into how I used to speak to myself to show people this is how sick I really was. And I just remember seeing so much violence and fighting and I'm like, how is anyone here supposed to be healing or you're just throwing medicine at people you're not even I remember they gave me medication and I couldn't I couldn't walk straight. I couldn't open my hands. And I remember one day I refused it and I was taking other ones. And I remember I was in front of the judge.

26:25
when I was supposed to be going home and the judge said, well, I know you refused medication before you can't do that. And I literally was like, you know what? I will say whatever I need to say so I can go home. I will just, whatever you want me to agree to, I just need to leave because I would only get honestly like an hour or two a night sleep. I could, I got no sleep in there. And I was actually to the point where when I did come home, I was in there for two weeks and I came home.

26:51
And it's almost the 10 year anniversary of my hospitalization. It'll be this December, but I came home and I would see figures that weren't like, I would see things. I would hear things that weren't there. And I think it was definitely due to like two weeks of not being able to sleep normal because it just so backwards, right? Like we're going into this facility, you know, we're going to evaluate you, we're going to give you a diagnosis, but what about the path forward? What about, you know,

27:17
And I asked that, I said that because a doctor was sitting there and she had like a check board and it was like, did you go to your groups today? Did you, you know, did you go to the bathroom? Like these like just tiny little things. And I was like, are you and I feel like it's unless you're homeless or going to a rehabilitation center, they're like, okay, well, you have a home to go to. You have somewhere to go release to. We're not going to even ask. And I'm like, aren't you going to ask me like if I'm in school, if I'm working like it was just nothing.

27:48
Yeah, it's very curious. I mean, it sounds very much like some of the movies kind of portray. It's like in your circumstance, you were in a space that maybe maybe you needed help. Maybe they wanted to intervene and they thought, OK, this girl needs some intervention here. She needs some help. Clearly, you know, something's going on. OK, fine. I can I can get on board with that. But the situation you describe doesn't sound safe at all. It just sounds like they've given you new traumas.

28:17
to now you also have to process those when you get into a safe space again. But at the end of the day, that should be the safe space, right? If the goal is to rehab, to rehabilitate, to help you find a new normal, help you whatever that goal is, doesn't sound like they served you. It sounded like you said, they just kind of give you some medications and hopefully that masks it enough.

28:44
that the check mark is made and you can carry on with your life. Right. And see, that's exactly what I experienced when I went back and I worked there. I was like, I want to be able to tell the patients, the people that I'm like, look, I was in this hospital. I take the same medication as you. And I worked with people of all ages. So I was, there's people who were under 18, or maybe like around 18 to like 60, 70 is the oldest I've seen. But I still...

29:12
I was told not to do that. I still had a lot of trauma inside myself. It just called into a lot of question because I think back to when I was released from the hospital and I was put on court ordered treatment for a year. I had to go get my blood drawn like every month. They check your levels, make sure you're taking your medicine. And I had a case manager and I think about her and I think about, wow, what if she told me that she also has a bipolar diagnosis and this is what she does? I feel like that would have helped me. And it's also sad.

29:40
Also working in that industry, I did see a lot of things that really just disturbed me from, there's a lot of people working in that industry who should be working there. Because I remember some of the staff would be like, oh, when you go out to do home visits, do not accept any of, if they try to give you water or drinks, like are they, so you're trying to say that they're trying to poison me. Like the, like, I just think you assume like anyone with a mental illness or because I was diagnosed. So it's SMI, which is severely mentally ill.

30:09
It's a classification of a mental illness diagnosis and they say anyone with SMI. So there was people who, when you get sent out to a clinic, either you've been hospitalized or whatever your diagnosis is, but they would treat people different who were SMI. Like, oh, they're the dangerous ones. They're the dangerous ones, right? And I'm like, I literally have had that diagnosis and I just feel like it literally made me realize.

30:36
so much that was wrong. And that's really when I, I mean, I even went back to school, I got my master's in healthcare administration to learn more of like business outcomes. And I wanted to learn like, what do these organizations actually do? Because clearly I don't, I don't really, you didn't experience it. I didn't see any of it. So yeah, it was just a lot of, a lot of letdowns, but I feel like what I've been able to achieve is finally breaking free from.

31:06
my thoughts in my head that if I tell someone that I have a bipolar diagnosis, they're going to think I'm crazy. All these things, right? And I feel like now I'm in such a place where I no longer take things personal. If I do come across somebody, I also need to realize I do not know their story. I don't know if they've had a family member, someone close to them who they've lost, who has a bipolar diagnosis. And it might be triggering for them to see someone like me who's so open.

31:32
who's able to talk about this thing. So I also, and it also, it just depends on the situation, but I feel like I realize now the value in my story and I think about the people I'm hurting by not telling it. For sure. Well, also, I think we need to get to a place where any diagnosis is a diagnosis and it is what it is. If I got diagnosed with a broken finger, no one's gonna think I'm crazy, right? I feel like it's just something and...

32:01
I talked to someone else that was on NAMI, or is part of NAMI, Alessandra Torasani. Do you know? I don't know if you know of her. So, you know, she was saying the same thing. It's like, it's just part of me, and this is just how I operate in the world, and now I found a way that works for me so that I can be a productive citizen in the way that I want to be. That is my life, I can choose the way that I wanna do it. I'm not hurting other people by doing it.

32:28
So I think you should be telling your story. Is there a part of your story where you feel like there was something that happened in which you were like, I'm in a new place. I'm in a new space. I feel like a different Paris. I feel like Paris, France and not Paris, Texas. You know? I love that. That's amazing. I think for me, it was that moment. So it was actually when I had some friends reach out.

32:57
who I went to high school with and they said, hey, we're actually helping put together this conference for someone that we work with. And I was like, I don't know, why are you, and then they were like, oh, it's this Think and Grow Rich Conference, it's like personal development. And I was like, I don't even know what personal development is, I don't know what Think and Grow Rich is, I don't know, but I was like, I will, yes, I'll go if you want me to go. So I remember going to this conference and it was the very first time I've ever been to an event where I've seen speakers get up on stage and actually talk about

33:27
things that are real. I went through homelessness, drug addiction, losing people I love to suicide, and they told real stories that were so impactful. But also at the same time, it made me uncomfortable in the way that I, at that time, I was like, I don't ever think I can get up on a stage and do that and do what they're doing. And it was that first moment that that seed was planted for me of changing my environment, changing my and breaking down. What does that

33:57
right? Giving myself awareness and saying, are the relationships I have around me serving me? What am I doing with my time? What are my habits? I literally said, that's when I got back into the things that I used to do that I loved, which are working out, reading. I started listening to podcast and I remember that was the, that conference was where that seed was planted for me of the possibility of seeing

34:24
other people do things coming out of this trauma because I was so used to being around people who haven't done it and were so hopeless and drained and exhausted that I didn't know anything else. So I was like, wow, maybe I can just look into this a little bit more. Yeah. So it was like a trigger. It was like, yeah, and a little interest, a little nugget of interest. Do you look back at those high school friends and that experience of them reaching out to you as maybe...

34:54
like one of a few moments and people really saw you and saw that you were changing and maybe it was in this small way that you weren't noticing, but do you ever think of that? Yeah, that's a beautiful realization that I actually never thought of that way. And I think that that makes a lot of sense because yeah, when we're so close to our lives and our story, we can't see it, but other people can see the differences. And I really actually, I remember going to that and talking with them and just thinking like,

35:24
you know, why did they ask me to come to this? Right. And I feel like it's because I've gotten to a place where I'm starting to learn about these things. And then from there, actually, that's actually right. It was right after or right. I have to look at the timeline either right after right before I met my husband for the first time. And that is when again, because I've never had healthy relationships, either it was always toxic, abusive, controlling that I.

35:53
was the one who would try to like start problems in their relationship because I was so used to that that I didn't, I didn't know it was healthy. It was foreign to me, healthy communication. And I thought that I had to work to earn love. I was told that I was treated that way. And I think a lot of that also comes stems down to another part of my story that I don't, I don't often really get into, but being exposed again and abused from a sex work standpoint that I had also in other men that I

36:23
was with or whatever the situation was. But again, being exposed to an industry like that and thinking that again, I don't value myself. I don't value. I don't see my life as worthless, worth anything. So if I'm being told by these people around me that I can do these things and make money and get paid for it, then I might as well do what they're telling me. So again, it's all rooted in the trauma. It's all rooted for me in the sexual abuse that I never, I just didn't think I could move past it. I didn't even, I didn't even

36:54
give myself a chance with that. So I feel like if you aren't even giving yourself the awareness into it, you can very easily fall victim to certain things like this. So I think that was a big trigger. You create patterns. I think you create patterns. And I can relate to the experience of like losing my mom at such a young age. I think, I push it down. I didn't have people around me that really knew how to help. It was like, make them happy.

37:22
he'll be fine. And so then I absorb that everyone wanted to see me happy. So I just had to perform and be overachiever and do all these things. And it's the same kind of parallel to what you're talking about is that like, in my 30s, I finally went to like a therapist and she was like, you know, after lots of talking, she was like, you realize that every single decision that you've made since you were eight years old was with that eight year olds scared, lost his mom brain.

37:52
Like everything started unraveling and I was like, you're right, everything I chose to do was because of that eight-year-old being really scared of the outcome of that decision. And I think there's so much to be said of this pushing down of sexual assault and the people around you that just had really shitty responses to you. Like that probably still affects some of the decisions you make, even if you've made all these, you know, this progress. And there's something to be said to people listening that if you have something like that.

38:20
If there's a possibility for you to start to unpack it, there's so much value in the growth that can come from it. It's scary, it's not easy, but a lot of our patterns are because of these things that we thought were something we packed away in is fine back there, you know, so. Yeah, I think that's a really interesting way to put it, because I feel like when I think back to my younger self going through...

38:46
that assault. And then also like after, I mean, when I opened up to people about it, I remember like walking through the hallways in high school and hearing, Oh, she's a slut or it's spread around and people were thinking. And that's why I think it's so sad is I feel like for me to understand like losing people to suicide and these behaviors that people can exhibit. I mean, I've

39:11
struggle with self harm. I've struggled with isolating. I've struggled with shutting down. I've struggled with being very mean and cruel to the people around me that I love because I, in my mind, I was like, if I mean and I push them away, then when I'm finally not here anymore, they're not, they're going to look back and say, well, she wasn't, you know, a nice person. And that's so wrong. It's so wrong because sometimes when you, when you've been so clouded and, and stacked and stacked on top of different traumas,

39:40
we just believe these things. And we think, you know, if I were to not be here anymore, people aren't really going to care. They're not going to miss me because I was mean to them. And really it's, and you don't know, you don't fully, but I feel like you sometimes aren't thinking. And that's at least for me, it wasn't thinking in the right mind. But I think that for me, that was really the most powerful moment of just starting to tell my story and like learn about. And I add that also another moment that I can share with you. I remember when I first started my podcast.

40:07
I would send it to everybody. I was like shooting it to like all my friends. And I remember someone that I thought was a friend was like, hey, stop sending me this. I don't listen to podcasts. Like I don't even like was like really mean. And I was just like, I had a lot of that from people that I and that was because and it started to show me it was a blessing in disguise to show me these people are not really my friends. These people and I had a lot of people around me who would only check on me to see, oh wow, you moved into a new apartment. Like

40:36
what are you doing or what are you up to? And it was never, how are you? Or I wanna check on you. It was, and I feel like starting the podcast showed me that because I was like, you know what? If these people aren't gonna care and they're gonna call me lame because I'm not drinking as much as I used to, I'm not going out and partying all the time, then I can find my people and I can find the people who have made changes and I'm gonna start seeing what they did and I'm gonna bring it to other people because I wish I had that when I was younger. Yeah.

41:06
It's an interesting experience when you start healing and you start healing yourself and you start to feel different, the things that you notice in the people around you that haven't started their healing and you realize that they're not there yet. I wasn't there for X amount of time and I need to put myself in a new space. And now you're gonna find people that maybe are farther down the road of their healing journey. And then, you know, you kind of like move through that. It's such an interesting thing that

41:34
If you don't stop to look and see what you're doing, you're like, how did I get here? How did I become this version of me when just X amount of years ago, I was a hot mess? And I'm like, how did I become comfortable enough to ask people about whatever circumstance? And it's like, oh, well, I guess I kind of did the work. Because before I did the work, I don't think, I think we shy away from it. And so every time you tell these stories, and I hate,

42:03
that I have this compassion in me. But every time you tell these stories about these assholes in your life and the people around you that just like sucked at life and weren't supportive of you, I almost feel bad for them because they haven't worked through whatever caused them to be like that to you. I don't know if you ever relate to that. When you say that, it literally reminded me of, I don't know if it was something I learned in therapy, but.

42:27
It was people can only meet you as far as they've done the work themselves. So I realized that because when I would do like my young, when I think back to my younger self, if I if myself now was trying to talk to Paris, who was 10 years ago, and I was like, hey, like, you know, telling her like, you know, in 10 years from now, you're not going to enjoy going out and blacking out. And, you know, you're going to have a loving husband. You're going to have an amazing home together. You're going to have a beautiful wedding honeymoon like.

42:57
all the things that you told yourself you couldn't have because of this. And I, and I feel like that's the thing is telling your younger self those things. And I think for me, that's, that's really the key is just realizing that so much of what I was focusing on, I was so focused on what I could not control rather than what I could control. Like I, I've said, you know what, what can I do? Right. I can, okay, I can start.

43:24
working out, going on walks, going to the gym, I can start changing my diet. I can try to get my sleep on track. I can, you know, and also I learned how to set boundaries. I learned how to respect, you know, those people in my life now who are my friends and who are, you know, have the same interests that I have. And even with my husband, like he's taught me so much about myself because he actually would call me out on

43:50
the shit that I was starting to work on coming to this relationship, but I had a lot of habits that I still needed to work on and he would help me and support me and it wasn't like coming from a place of threatening or because I've definitely had partners where I opened up about living with bipolar and they were like, oh, and they used it against me. They're like, I'm going to tell my family that you have bipolar and it was just very bad. So I feel like I learned a lot.

44:16
I'm about to be 29 in April, so my last year in my 20s. So I feel like I've learned. I feel like I'm honestly- It gets better. I feel like, yes, I feel like I'm such an old soul inside. Like, I really- You've lived a lot of lives. Right. And I think that it just comes down to, for me, I mean, even now, like I, this past month, well, January, was a really bad month for me with my-

44:41
everything I was struggling with in my stomach. And I had a lot of tests done. I've had like seven doctor's appointments in the last like six, seven weeks. You know, I'm thankful that nothing serious was found. I wasn't, you know, ruled to have celiac, Crohn's, any kind of colon cancer, anything like that. The only thing they found was inflammation in my stomach lining, which I think I've actually haven't had any issues in the past two days. So I think that that's something you can heal through.

45:09
your diet, paying attention to this connection. But I feel like, again, it goes back to the point that I made earlier, is no matter how much work I've done on myself, like I've done consistent, this is five years now, of consistently doing the work for my mental health, you're always gonna learn new tools. You're always gonna have old, and I mean, even last year or something, like yeah, I had the trauma resurface from going through the sexual assault that I didn't think would because I spent years in therapy.

45:38
and I had an incident happen, like where I was just reminded and I was like, why am I crying and I can't eat and it's impacting my whole days. And I feel like again, it was because I realized how much I still would downplay what I went through. And it was a good opportunity for me to go back to, you know, continue therapy, work on that stuff. But

46:02
I think it just goes back to we're always going to be evolving. We're always going to have, but I think it's important to give yourself grace and also celebrate where you are. Right. Even if you're not where you want to be in your life, what do you mean celebrate myself? My life sucks. Well, I'm pretty sure there's at least one thing in your life that has gotten you to where you are and that you can give some gratitude to. And I always try to do that. Even when I've spent the last last month going through all of that, I try to do that.

46:32
I think it's important. I think it's awareness is just like such a big piece that sounds so like nebulous and sounds like, ooh, what does that mean? But, you know, in the sense of like that seed being planted in that conference that you went to and people were like, really, you saw someone on stage? But you saw you in a different version. You saw someone up there that was doing the things that subconsciously you wanted to do. You needed to heal. You wanted to share your story.

47:01
Because you realize these people are sharing their story and they look healed. Like there's this connection that we see and they're like, oh wait, I can do this? I can become a person like that? My story doesn't sound so bad compared to theirs or mine sounds a little worse or whatever it might be, but this awareness component is so important. I think it kind of opens our eyes to things and we're like, oh. Like we said before, when you have this story and you put it out.

47:29
In your head, it's much worse. It's like, and then you say it and you're like, why did I stress for six months over that when I could have just said it out loud or put it on paper and then be like, oh, I could do that, done. So I think there's this awareness piece. Do you really look at that, like that conference moment as like kind of that first step on the staircase? Yeah, so that was the first, just, I mean, prior to that, I don't remember too much of what I was starting, but it was literally that conference where

47:59
I saw that and I started to do the work and that's what actually ended up me starting the podcast and then realizing I want to share more of my journey. I want to bring on more resources. And I did have a lot of people that I thought were my friends. I've been able to now be in a place where I don't have any people around me at all who I have questions about. Back in the day, everyone around me I had questions about.

48:24
But I was scared to say anything. I was scared. And I mean, even recently it was like, I mean, it was last year, I had someone, you know, a good, one of my other friends from like a while ago, but who was going through some things that was hard. And I feel like it's also knowing when, to set the boundary, right? And if someone is, you know, being unkind to you.

48:49
or treating you in a way that is not what you're deserving, it's okay to let them know that. The old me wouldn't do that. I would just take whatever anyone says. But I feel like I went through a situation where I had to end friendships and I said, I don't think this is right to me, and I'm gonna share how I feel. And you can still separate, but I think it's not putting up with that. If you have a friend who is treating you badly or...

49:18
you know, not supporting, you know, decisions that you are doing to put your mental health first, you don't need to be around those people. And I feel like it is, it can be scary, right? I mean, for me it was, when I was, but now I have no problem if I have anything like that anymore, because I know it's gonna do more damage to me than good. Yeah, you have self-love, you care for yourself, and you wanna make sure that you maintain that. And I think it's important. I think...

49:48
you know, growing up, a lot of us were told like, the more friends you have, the better you are, right? Like the more qualified you are as a person because you have X amount of friends, but really it's about what serves you and what makes you happy. And I'm glad you're in this space because I think there's a version of your life that could have gone a lot differently. Right. And I think that that's the, yeah, like you said, like just looking back on things now, like I look at all my relationships from 10 years ago and I mean, people, there was,

50:17
friends that I had since high school. And when I started to change and I started to say, you know, I'm not gonna go out and drink every weekend. I don't wanna do that. I don't wanna, and now I barely, I basically don't even drink anymore at all. But I feel like it just, and also I think again, it's important. Like I'm not someone who's ever struggled with alcohol, like to the point of, you know, it's severely impacting my life. But I just didn't, I don't like who I am when I feel like, oh, I need to go out and.

50:46
you know, people are pressuring me to drink and it's a cool thing to do. I don't feel that anymore. And I feel like I had a lot of friends who, and they were not the same, like you said, like not healed and they were going through their own traumas and I was trying to help them and being like, hey, you know, they've had abusive boyfriends and they're still in these relationships. And this was from a long time ago, but you can't do the work for people.

51:06
You can't. And if they're not willing to do that and it's bleeding over into you and it's hurting you and you know, they're like, I remember being called lame or I'm not fun because I'm not fun. Why? Because I don't go blackout drunk and go sleep with everybody in front of you. Like it's just, that was not normal behavior. And you know, I'm, I've worked very hard to have a relationship, the marriage that I have now, cause I really didn't think I could even be married or have a relationship because I

51:34
I was told that and I was told I wouldn't have that. And I was scared because of my bipolar diagnosis. I didn't know if someone was going to want to have a future with me. So all these things that I told myself, I mean, I told myself I couldn't public speak. I can't, I can't, I do that now. So it's like, I'm like, I can't do it. I'm too scared. But I was the one stopping myself because of my environment. And again, when you're able to see that the first step is seeing it. You need to be able to see it. It's awareness. Right. Exactly. Yeah. No, I think it's fascinating.

52:04
Are you still in touch with those high school friends that recommended that conference? So I actually, it's so funny, because I would be if I could, because they only had like a Twitter account, but I probably still, I actually might have their numbers, but I just haven't talked to them in a while. We would talk like a couple times throughout the year and stuff like that. I feel like you need an episode on your show where you can talk to them about that moment. And if they saw something, I think it'd be so fascinating. Because, you know, what if they hadn't?

52:34
You know, what if they hadn't called you up and been like, here's this conference information, you know, and they hadn't, you know, done that. And you didn't, you didn't take that step to go see these people that like had redemption stories, if you will, from their own experiences that they've gone through. And then that, that light wasn't lit up in you. And you know, like all these things, these trickles, it's so fascinating how someone just seeing us for who we are and what we're doing and seeing the value that we're putting into the world and just telling us, or

53:03
or an action like that can change your whole life. Like, it always fascinates me to like find these little moments of like love that kind of just like wasn't this overt experience of love. It was just like someone saw you. They saw you and they were like, you're doing the work. Maybe you should go to this thing, you know? Like, open the door for you. I love that. And I definitely, that's a great idea because I remember I...

53:30
give them a shout out in my book. And I told them, we were talking about even, yeah, like two years ago, a couple of years ago. But I feel like that, and I think a part of it was because I just, I lost like, I actually had a, I lost my Facebook, I lost my Instagram, I lost everything. And I was like, Oh, I lost, I don't even have Facebook. Kind of a blessing. Yeah. And I think honestly, you know what? It probably is because I also was rebranding the podcast anyway, because another thing that I want to give you guys a message on is start before you're ready. So I started the podcast, I didn't even have a name.

54:00
I just named my book, which wasn't even my book yet. So I called it Crooked Illness. Then I changed it to Master Your Mental and now it's Live Well Bipolar. So I feel like a lot of people have this thing and then where I can't start a podcast or I can't do anything because that has to be perfect. You will literally go through changes, whatever, rebrands, and you don't need to be that way. And I feel like I used to be like, oh, oh, wow. Look at me. I didn't do it right from the jump. But

54:27
Your people will always be your people, no matter what you're doing. If you're speaking the messages they need, then that's all that matters. And I feel like that's something too, is start before you're ready, right? Start with boundaries, start with your relationships, with your habits, with getting the awareness. You don't need all the pieces to know what you need to move forward. It's like anything. You're not great the first time you do anything. Like in most cases, whether that's.

54:54
your first time going to therapy. You're not great at sharing your story because you're close, you know, and then the next time you go, you get better. Or the first time you do your podcast, it's like, oh, I won't go back and listen to that. But the second one, you're like, okay, it's a little bit better. And you kind of go through the thing. And I think that's such a great message to like, just start. If you have this, say we bring it back to like, you're facing depression or you're facing a bipolar diagnosis and you kind of have this little awakening, this little light of like,

55:23
maybe there are some things that I can kind of move through. I'm not gonna quote unquote fix it. You know, like I'm not gonna do one thing and then all of a sudden everything's perfect and like we can run down the yellow brick road, but you know, like one little thing. And then it just kind of, it's no, it's no balls, you know? Like things just get bigger and you get better and you feel different. And then you look back and you're like, how'd I get here?

55:47
Yeah, I think that that's exactly like it is like that snowball effect of and then and then seeing it looking back on it and being like, oh, wow, this is, you know, and I feel like I'm doing that today because it's the four year anniversary of the podcast. And I feel like without the, like if I think about it from this standpoint, if I never started the podcast, I would have never shared my story in my book. I would have never found like I've been speaking for NAMI because NAMI found me through

56:12
It's actually a funny story how they found me through a news story that they did on me through a friend who now is like my best friend and made of honor. Like we're like, it's just this whole thing. But it's the ripple effect. When you start one thing, it leads to another. And like, I feel like for me, it's just the messages and the feedback from people, the emails of I found you from wherever. And whether it's the podcast, my book, you saw me speak, I don't know what it is, but being able to see people of all ages from all over the place say you, like I had some

56:41
this amazing person reach out to me and he's like, I'm 60 years old and you're my hero. And he wrote me this long email and I'm sitting there reading that. And I feel like sometimes I have moments where I'm just like, when you're having a bad day, like, should I just stop doing this? Like, it's been four years, like, you know, whatever. And I feel like it's that that shows me that I helped you feel like you can open up about your diagnosis. I helped you feel like there's people who've come to me and said, I launched a podcast because of you.

57:10
I started my podcast. So it's like, and again, like I started to think about who are my people, right? Who are my people who got me to be where I am? So it's just so cool to see that. I love a ripple effect and it's, we don't realize it until we stop and we look back and we see all the things that we've done. It's so fascinating. And your story, I mean, thank you for sharing it. I love to kind of wrap these up with a question and I'm wondering if

57:40
If you could go back to the Paris that just got out of the hospital, and she's kind of getting back into the same routine, knowing what you know now, is there anything that you would want to do? Say anything with her? Yeah. So I would want to say that you don't need to feel like you need to stay where you are and tolerate the things that you've tolerated in terms of the abuse from these relationships and really just say that.

58:07
you know, you will be in a place that you've never thought you would. You will find love, happiness, fulfillment. You're on that path. It's going to still be hard. It's going to still be challenging. But I want you to know that your life does have value. Your story does have value. And you are going to see that. And I'm going to continuously show up every day for you. So you can see that along the way. And you did. Maybe you heard it. Maybe you just had to go through a couple of speed bumps and then.

58:37
Hit those speed bumps, show up to that conference, meet your now husband, and, you know, life kind of unfolds in the way it does. So thank you for sharing that. If people want to like get into your orbit, read your book, listen to your podcast, what's the best way to kind of like find you? So the best way to get in contact with me is Instagram. It's at livewell bipolar. Everything is there. That's the place you guys can find me, message me. Everything's in my bio, the book, the podcast, Apple podcast, Spotify.

59:06
wherever you listen, everything is all there. And I love connecting and just the messages and all of that. So yes. Perfect. We will share that link in the show notes so people can access it very easily. And, you know, thank you for wanting to do this, first of all, and being willing to listen to me say random things that come to mind. I think it's so helpful for me, like we said before, it's helping to heal this eight-year-old that I'm carrying with me or walking with.

59:36
So thank you for just being you and sharing yourself. Of course, always happy to do so. And thank you for having me and doing the work that you're doing and making these conversations accessible and helping other people heal that eight year old or whatever age self that they're, they're still working on. So I loved it. I loved our conversation and I can't, I look forward to, to just many more. Thank you so much. And.

59:59
If you are listening and you enjoy this conversation, or maybe there's someone in a situation like Paris describes that she was in, maybe you send this episode to them and say, hey, I thought of you. You might want to listen to this episode. That'd be great as an indie podcaster. Word of mouth is just so fantastic. So thank you for listening, and I will be back next week with a brand new episode. Thanks again, Paris. Awesome. Yay.