Reclaiming Identity: Surviving Domestic Abuse | Jennifer Peterkin

00:00
The first big one was realizing that I was even in an abusive relationship. And that sounds really silly, but you would be surprised at how many people have said the same thing. I had no idea that's what was happening. I was convinced that this was my doing. I'm not a good enough wife. I'm just really unhappy. I'm being selfish. You know, he's reinforcing all of those ideas, obviously.

00:29
But I was also had gotten very isolated from my family and friends. And it's amazing how quickly it happened. I had been married a little over a year by the time I was told that I was in an abusive relationship. Today's guest is Jennifer Peterkin. Jennifer's story is about a power that can be found in sharing our truth and really looking into ourselves. In today's episode, Jennifer Candidly shares her experience

00:58
seemingly perfect romance that took a dark turn into domestic violence. This is not a subject that we often discuss openly. However, it's a reality for many people. And through open conversations, we can shed light on this issue. We can offer support to those going through similar experiences, and we can educate ourselves on the signs of abusive relationships. Her journey takes us from the highs of a whirlwind romance with a man described as quote unquote perfect by her and those around her.

01:26
to the alarming shift in dynamics post-honeymoon that marked the beginning of a challenging period in her life. Throughout the episode, Jennifer touches on the loss of her identity, which is a common occurrence in these abusive relationships where one's sense of self is eroded in an attempt to fulfill another's ideals. But amidst the darkness, there's a silver lining. Her realization of the abusive nature of her relationship became the catalyst for change and it really reshaped her life.

01:52
After a year and a half of marriage, Jennifer made the courageous decision to leave her husband and has since become an advocate for others going through similar experiences and help share other people's stories on her podcast, The Human Experience. She now uses her story to empower others, providing support and guidance for those navigating the difficult path of abusive relationships. I'd like for you to take care while listening to this episode.

02:17
Before we jump in, I want to thank Tracy, Emily, and Mickey for supporting two episodes every month on the Patreon for the Life Shift Podcast. Your support means so much. If you want to directly support the show and what I am doing, please head to patreon.com slash the Life Shift Podcast, and I would be so grateful for you to join in that community. And without further ado, I'd like to introduce you to my guest, Jennifer Peterkin. I'm Maciel Hoolie.

02:46
And this is The Life Shift, candid conversations about the pivotal moments that have changed lives forever.

03:03
Hello, my friends. Welcome to the LifeShift Podcast. I am here with Jennifer. Hello, Jennifer. Hello. Thank you for joining on this remote recording. Jennifer is a podcaster and she does all of her recordings live, in person, traveling around the world, I'm going to say. And I can't even imagine what that is like. So kudos to you for making that happen in your world. Thank you. Thank you for having me. It's such a such an honor to be on here.

03:32
from one podcast or to another, I understand the challenges and the things that you go through. And your podcast is called The Human Experience, right? Yes. And we have similar kind of vibes or our approach to having these conversations, these real, true human conversations about things in our lives that maybe we don't broadcast that much or we don't share with a lot of people. Yet I'd venture to say that a lot of the conversations you have

04:02
resonate with a lot of the listeners in ways that the things we choose to talk about don't. Would you say that's true? Very much so. Yes, absolutely. And we connected, what, like months ago about you potentially being on the show. And I'm so glad that you are not in the sense of the topic that you're going to talk about today because I think it's a really hard topic. But unfortunately, I think there's a lot of people that...

04:27
will relate with your story and find inspiration and how you've moved through and past and with some of that along the way. So thank you for just, I guess, sharing your vulnerability before you actually do it. I think it's so important that we share these stories and create a normalcy in being vulnerable. Yeah, I agree. So before...

04:56
you kind of tell us exactly what those moments are. Maybe you can tell us a little bit about who you are right now and what you do. That way we can get a little bit of feel. And then we'll have you paint the picture of what your life was like leading up to this big change. Sure, yeah. I am a completely different person now than I was, hence the life shift. So yeah, I do. I travel around the world. I interview people about their stories in person. That was a very personal choice for me.

05:25
I think any way that anybody is telling story is a fantastic medium, right? And I think there's so many different ways to do that. And they're all beautiful. This is how I chose to do mine. And people are very open to it, which has been really cool to see because I wasn't necessarily expecting people to be as open as they are or as excited as they are. But yeah, it's just been a really, really cool experience.

05:54
finding out a lot about myself, finding out a lot about how similar we are as human beings. So yeah, I work full-time still. I do have a day job and that is, people are always like, how do you afford to do this? I still work full-time. And so it's kind of crazy, but I am enjoying every second of it. So. You're right about, you know, how everyone's story has some kind of impact and whether or not we relate

06:24
the specific example or the specific experience, I find that there's something about everyone's story that I can relate to, whether that's how we reacted to something or how we felt about something that was not even part of that direct experience. I'm sure you've seen this as well. I can't imagine having conversations like this though in person. Are you finding that people, does it take a little bit for people to let down their guard or they just come in like,

06:52
ready to do it and just share a really intimate and vulnerable experience with you. They are ready and that has been one of the biggest surprises for me and also one of the most humbling experiences for me too, right? Because I'm on here to share my story and this has certainly helped me see, you know, I think I've always seen the value in vulnerability, but really just treasuring.

07:19
how important it is for us as human beings to tell our stories and then to in turn receive other people's stories. And I think truly that's what makes us human. So yeah, it has been really surprising but really cool how into it people are. And I'm sure you've seen this as well, but just they're wanting to share their stories. And one of the biggest takeaways I think I've found is that

07:48
Above everything else, people want to be heard and understood. Right? So I think it's such a valuable lesson for us as we are in community with each other to know that it matters that you are able to sit with somebody in their space and whatever their story entails, be able to sit in that with them. If it's grief, if it's joy, if it's sadness, if it's despair.

08:18
It's all important. You probably learned this too, just the importance of listening and carefully listening and not listening with judgment or listening to respond or any of those pieces. And like you said, sharing your story is really impactful for the persons sharing it, right? Like sometimes just saying these things out loud helps us heal in ways that we didn't really think.

08:45
could happen by sharing our stories. So good job for you for leading that space and doing it in person. I'm just, that's so intimidating to me, but I have this little barrier of the internet, but I love it. I love it for you and I love how you've chosen to share that human experience with people. So in vain of what you do on your podcast, maybe you can kind of paint the picture of what your life was like leading up to this pivotal moment that we're gonna talk about today.

09:14
Yeah, absolutely. I grew up in a very happy home. It's still happy. I still have great relationships with my family. But yeah, I was pretty sheltered as a kid. I grew up in a conservative Christian environment, went to Christian school my whole life, went to church, had a great group of friends. I was very not exposed to a lot of things as a kid.

09:42
And I don't necessarily think that's a bad thing, you know, where you don't want kids to grow up too quickly. But yeah, my bubble was just that, it was a bubble. It was pretty small. And in my early 20s, after a couple of teenage heartbreaks, I met the man that I would end up marrying. And it was just such a...

10:10
whirlwind thing. I was so happy when we were dating and when we were engaged. He was described as perfect, not just by me, but by members of my family and my friends. He was the epitome of the perfect boyfriend. Just very thoughtful, very caring. We didn't have arguments. We didn't. Yeah, it was just really easy to be together.

10:37
And so I was really excited to move into my future. You know, I'm 21 years old. I met the person I'm gonna be with forever. Like, check, I did it. Like, I completed the course. And I will say that one of the things that was really a catalyst for me was that idea that I had done everything right. I had done, taken all of the right steps.

11:07
to do the thing that I was supposed to do. And listen, nobody told me that my goal in life was to get married, but there's a certain pressure to do so. And so I was like, I'm winning. Like I got married before all of my friends. I was the first one. And yeah, so I was excited. I was ready to start my new life as a wife. Yeah, I.

11:34
talked to so many people about this, and I also, I didn't grow up in a bubble like that, but there was a part of me, and maybe this is early trauma that kind of did this to me losing my mom, but I took on whatever society's checklist was for me. That was very much like, you know, you have to perform well in school so that you can get into the good college, you have to do well in college, you also have to maintain a job.

12:00
Then when you graduate college, you get a good job, then you get promotions, and you buy a house, and it was like all these things that I felt like we were forever chasing. And it sounds like you had something similar, but maybe on the love side, or that you absorb something around you that, because I think when we're growing up, people point at happy families. They point at, or they epitomize, like something over there, like look at them, they're just so perfect, they have.

12:27
two kids, a boy and a girl, and a beautiful house, and all these things, and they're following all the rules. Sounds like you kind of absorb that, and we're like, were there rose-colored glasses at all in that journey? 100%, yes, absolutely. The fantasy was kind of pulling you along of the idea that I'm gonna do this, and everyone's gonna see that I am a happy person in this happy world. Absolutely.

12:55
So I will say that I didn't go to college. That was a decision I made actually two weeks before I was sent to start college. I didn't tell my classes. I was ready to go and I was absolutely dreading it. And so I ended up pulling out of my enrollment and was working and that's actually a whole other story. But there was certainly this part of me that already felt at that age, this was 18, 19, that I was...

13:25
not on the right path. I was not on the path that everybody else was at, right? Because it's high school, college, marriage. That's kind of the order that these things are supposed to go in. Whoever made that up. I don't know. Yeah, exactly. So I had kind of already felt really insecure about that. And I, like I said before, had gone through a couple of teenage heartbreaks, not at the time. They were very painful to me. Right. And so.

13:53
There was a lot that was up in the air in my life. Little did I know what was coming down the pike, but it just felt like I need a change. I need to do something that I feel like I'm not failing at. And so I actually pursued a relationship. You know, I did the online dating thing before online dating was the thing to do. So, yeah, eHarmony, class of 2010.

14:22
Good on you though. I mean, I mean, you kind of took, I mean, you were kind of bucking the system. Was any part of that, the system? I don't know. That's not really what it is. But you were kind of choosing the things that were prescribed to us and you were choosing not to do them. Like choosing not to college, which I think is a good choice for a lot of people because I don't necessarily believe at this point in my life that college is for everyone.

14:47
nor should it be required for everyone. And I think people just assume you have to go and that everyone is equipped for that. So good for you for choosing what felt the most authentic or right at that time for you. So you're kind of bucking the system. But also, I'm sure, forgive me if I'm assuming here, but in this Christian upbringing, this bubble, was there this?

15:12
this man versus woman kind of thing in which you were kind of going against the system as a woman seeking out a man in this point? Or not? I don't know that that was really the, that may have been there. It's not something that I necessarily remember as being one of the things at the forefront. Me not deciding, yeah, me deciding not to go to college was a big thing. And I will say as far as gender roles go,

15:41
One of the things that made people in my life okay with me not going to college was because, well, I was going to get married and be taken care of by a man. So it's actually okay if you don't go to college, but like my brother would not have gotten the same response. Race, right, yeah. Right.

16:02
Yeah, it's interesting. I mean, good for you, though, for seeking out a relationship since you knew that was what you wanted, or you thought that was what you wanted at the time. So what transpired from this seemingly perfect individual that everyone saw as perfect? Yeah, so I met I met this guy and he was like.

16:22
He was the only not creepy person that I had met online. And I was actually, it's rough out there. I don't know if you've done online dating, but yeah. So I was actually about to just stop because I was like, this is just not even fun. I don't know what I was expecting, but it was not this. And I heard from him and I matched with him and we started talking and just really enjoyed our conversations now.

16:50
He wasn't in my immediate area. He was a few hours away in a different state. And he was actually in the military. So I, you know, at 21, again, just really naive and really seeking human connection. A lot of my friends had moved away to college and were in a different season of their life. And so I was really seeking. And so I ended up, we ended up meeting.

17:19
ended up dating, ended up getting engaged, got married. I moved five hours away from my family because his job was such that he couldn't relocate, I had to relocate. And almost immediately after we got back from our honeymoon, things completely changed. And I credit the fact that it was so drastic to part of that to me getting out as quickly as I did.

17:48
because I was only married for a year and a half before I left. And there's a lot about domestic violence that I know now because after being in my marriage, I pursued domestic violence advocacy. And so I look back and I see through the lens of hindsight, what I didn't see, you know, in the moment. And I also look back and see how

18:18
textbook my relationship was for an abusive relationship. So it's really interesting now because you're in that moment, you're kind of like, how did this happen? I don't understand how this happened. And then even from just a clinical standpoint, I look back and I'm like, yeah, that was absolutely going to happen. There was no way that wasn't going to happen. And there's also no way it wasn't going to escalate. So.

18:47
Thank God I got out when I did. Yeah, it's interesting to look back at that. I'm sorry that you had to go through that. It sounds like there was quite a switch. Like, did he feel like a completely different person after that honeymoon? Or were the actions more the bigger difference and like maybe he was just hiding those for a while? Yeah, it was the, it was all of the expectations shifted is the best way that I can describe it. So...

19:16
Before we got married, we talked about what we expected, what our life was going to look like. It's not like we didn't have those conversations, but he wasn't honest about what he actually wanted out of marriage and wanted from me, because I didn't change after we got married, but he did in a very big way.

19:41
And so it was almost like, you know, while we're dating, he understands, I mean, I was traveling back then too. So he understands that I'm traveling, I'm doing my own thing. I had started a nonprofit at one point while we were dating. I was very much an independent person wanting to achieve my goals and dreams. And then as soon as we got married and he was supposedly supporting that. As soon as we got married, it became, well, no, you're the wife.

20:09
You know, you have to be home, you have to be with me, you have to, you know. And so just the expectations of who I was to him completely changed. And I began to lose my identity, which is what so often happens in domestic violence relationships. So it became more of a controlling kind of situation in which it was before it was like, okay, yes, you are, we are two people. And now that we're married, you...

20:38
kind of belong to me and I have a little bit more of a say so than than I had before. Yes, very much. And you found yourself do you you said that there was a drastic switch but you also mentioned that you kind of did you kind of start to appease some of that and you found yourself like okay, was it out of fear or was it more like no this marriage that I've been building up in my my world this love that everyone's seeing because he's perfect.

21:07
it can't fail because then it's me. You know, like, was it that or was it more out of like a fear kind of factor? It definitely started as the second. It started as, well, I've never been married before. And especially growing up in the church, you hear I think you hear this outside of the church, too, but it's really driven home in the church, you know, marriage is hard, marriage. You're going to be tested.

21:36
you're not going to like it all of the time. And so you just kind of- That sounds terrible. Right? That sounds like a terrible message. Maybe we shouldn't be saying that. So I'm thinking, okay, this is just what marriage is. Like this is, I have to get over this hill basically. And I have to, like on the other side of this is happiness, but I have to kind of walk through this valley first.

22:05
And so that's kind of how it started. Like, well, you can't just give up, right? Like, first of all, divorce is not an option. That's the big one. The second of all, you just got married and this guy, everybody loves this guy. And so what am I gonna say? Like everything in my mind sounded so petty and silly because...

22:34
what a lot of abusers do when you talk especially about emotional and psychological abuse is things are twisted just enough that they almost sound ridiculous, if that makes sense. So it's like, well, I don't want you to go see your family because I wanna spend time with you. So yeah, that sentence doesn't sound bad, but over and over again, compounded with other actions,

23:03
It basically comes down to, I'm isolating you from your family. And there's also the sense of like people. Might talk you out, like if you mentioned it to someone else, they might be like, well, no, that doesn't that's normal or and you're just you're just feeling a certain kind of way about it and, you know, it'll be fine. And then then that stops us from. Saying it again to someone else or to mentioning, oh, maybe.

23:32
Or we absorb that, okay, well, maybe it is normal, quote unquote normal to kind of feel this way or have those feelings. I mean, I hate that people convinced you early on in the church that that's just how marriages should be. But like you said, it's kind of textbook in a way that probably looking back through your dating journey, you probably saw some of the little, the nuggets that maybe he was dropping along the way to kind of pull you in. Sure, definitely.

24:01
that hindsight is disturbing. Yeah, absolutely. It is, it is. Well, I mean, one of the biggest red flags is that our relationship, our dating relationship, should not have been as perfect as it was. And after being in a lot of therapy, realizing that him not actually having an opinion, but just kind of agreeing with whatever I said, was not him actually.

24:29
us being aligned on things. It was just him telling me what I wanted to hear. Because then when we got married, those opinions changed. They actually shaped. And he all of the sudden had differing opinions. And I'm like, where is this coming from? I thought we talked about that. Like, I was doing this three months ago and we were engaged. Why all of the sudden is it an issue now? Yeah, it's also interesting to think about, like, why would you want to agree all that time?

24:58
Is it like getting a prize? Like you went, like if, and from his perspective, like why do all this? Because you're sacrificing yourself for this win so then you can control someone later, I guess. Maybe it's a good thing that I can't understand. I think that might be the best thing to think about. So as you're going through this and you're kind of losing your identity, as you said, at what point were you like, no?

25:28
Like, screw this whole idea that divorce isn't possible. Screw this idea that marriage is hard and you just have to persevere and get through it. Like, was there a moment where you were just like, this is it, I'm done? It came in, I would say, like a wave of a couple moments. The first big one was realizing that I was even in an abusive relationship. And that sounds really silly.

25:56
but you would be surprised at how many people have say the same thing. I had no idea that's what was happening. I was convinced that this was my doing. I'm not a good enough wife. I'm just really unhappy. I'm being selfish. You know, he's reinforcing all of those ideas, obviously. But I was also had gotten very isolated.

26:20
from my family and friends. And it's amazing how quickly it happened. I had been married a little over a year by the time I was told that I was in an abusive relationship. And it was actually my mom. And I say it all the time, I would not be here where I am without my mom. I don't know that I would have actually left the marriage without my mom. I had let something slip.

26:46
at some point because that's one of the other things is you don't talk about your problems with other people. You don't air your dirty laundry, but also your marriage is between the two of you and God, so you don't talk about it with other people, which is a really unhealthy place to be in. Not setting up anyone for success, no. No, no. Nobody should be gossiping about anybody, but you should have trusted people to...

27:15
go to for advice and to seek counsel from, or at the very least a therapist. Yeah, I mean, even, I mean, before you even go into that, I think it's like you've noticed this in your own podcast, talking to these people, these human experiences, like we are a bunch of humans experiencing a lot of similar things throughout our journey. And like we should be sharing these with each other. It shouldn't be something like, oh no, that's just for me behind closed doors. It's like, you're not, you might not be the only one going through it and it might be a bad thing.

27:44
And if you feel like you have to hide it, it feels like it might be a bad thing. Exactly. So I don't even remember what I said, but I let something slip and she said back to me, that's not normal. And I'm like, hold on. It was kind of like the screeching noise, like things going to a screeching halt because I'm over here thinking this is what marriage is. It is just.

28:13
You know, you have to get through this part and then eventually things will get better. There's no actual timeline for that, but, you know, it's there somewhere. Right. Yeah. And that really kind of set me free in a way. That was my first, like, liberation from this because it allowed me to step back and say, okay, well, and I then threw out some more things that were happening. What about this? What about this?

28:42
and she was very shocked and, but also I think a little bit relieved because I had been so distant and there was no explanation for it. And so all of the sudden it's starting to make sense. So I was actually with my parents when I told them that by myself. And so when I went home, I confronted my husband, which not a good idea.

29:11
Don't do that, that's very unsafe actually. So I confronted him, I said, you're being abusive, I really think that this behavior is not okay, I'm not okay, and we need to do something about this, because I'm still in the mindset of divorce isn't an option, because I haven't exhausted every, you know. Exactly, so we need to fix this, we need to go to counseling together.

29:41
No. The answer was no. And so then I'm like, okay, well now what? Like, am I allowed? Now he knows that I think he's an abuser. Right. Well, and it's funny because he didn't deny it ever. He never denied it. Did his behavior change after that in a way like, no. OK, no, not in a bad, not in a worse way or a better way. And at that point, no, nothing changed.

30:05
And I kind of dropped it because again, at the time, I'm living in this place where I'm really confused. I wouldn't have described myself like that at the time, but I had really started to lose who I was. I was unsure of myself. I had no confidence. And so I'm like, well, okay, now what? I can't, am I allowed to leave yet? Is this enough?

30:35
Do I still need to try harder? And so we went for a couple months and I would bring it up periodically. And he, you know, no, no, no, every time. And then- The therapy idea. Yes, yes. And then one day I gave him an ultimatum and I said, either we're going to therapy or I'm leaving. And I felt like I owed him that choice.

31:06
And so all of the sudden therapy was an option. So we did start going to therapy. And we started going, and that's when things started getting worse at home. And so, but I'm, it sounds ridiculous again, to say that I was so unaware of it. I'm like not making the connection that therapy is what's causing things to get worse at home. So we're going to therapy.

31:35
every week, week after week, and things are getting worse. I'm feeling worse. And so I am like, listen, I think I'm the problem here. I'm telling this to him. I think I'm the problem here because you're going to therapy. Like you're doing what I'm asking you to do, and I'm still in this place. And so I started seeing our therapist one-on-one, and he knew that.

32:05
And it was truly from this place of, okay, he's putting in the effort. Now I need to get myself right. Well, seeing the therapist in our first session, she pulls out the power and control wheel. I don't know if you're familiar with that tool. It's literally a circle and it has something like eight slices on it. And each slice has.

32:32
a descriptor of abuse, like different abusive tactics. And she hands it to me and she says, does any of this resonate with you? And I'm sitting there and I picked out more than half the wheel. And so it was this realization like, oh my God, this is still happening. Like it's not, it hasn't stopped. These behaviors are all very much still there and it's gotten worse. It's starting to escalate.

33:02
So we continue seeing this counselor together, this therapist together, I continue seeing her one-on-one. And what my one-on-one sessions become are safety planning. So at one point, things were getting worse at home and she had told me you need to pack a bag and hide your spare set of keys because it's possible that you are.

33:30
or he was physically escalating, it's possible that you're gonna need to leave very quickly. And I remember calling my mom because I had started to share some of the stuff that was happening just to kind of keep myself centered. And I remember telling her that over the phone. And I can't even imagine now how devastating that was for her to hear that that's where I was at. I was five and a half hours away from her. There was, I didn't have anybody.

34:00
close by. So the final kind of nail in the coffin was Mother's Day weekend. We were supposed to go to his family's house for the weekend and I just did not have it in me. I was so broken. Because I'm sure it was a lot to perform in front of these people, right? You have to perform that you are perfect and everything is great.

34:29
I mean, I was struggling day to day. And then to go to his family's house was just absolutely, I couldn't do it. Yeah, exhausting, yeah. And one of his big things was that we couldn't be separate. There were very few times where it was okay for us to not be going somewhere together. So the fact that he let that happen was like a total blessing. I'm so thankful for that.

34:57
because what ended up happening was he went to his family's house and I stayed at our house and asked my mom to come just spend the weekend with me. And that's truly all it was. I had no plans on leaving at that point. I mean, I was getting closer and closer to that, but that wasn't why I wanted her to come. And then it was the best and worst weekend because we did nothing special.

35:24
We watched movies, we went to the mall, we ordered food, and it was the best time I had had in over a year. And I was like, how depressing is this, that it takes me, first of all, being away from my husband to feel like this, to feel this happy, and then doing something so mundane, and I'm so excited about it, I'm so filled up from it.

35:52
And that was honestly the moment where I was like, I can't do this anymore. That was my shift. And my mom and I started packing things for her to put in her car to bring home. She was leaving the same day he was coming back. And so I gathered like my important documents and sentimental things. I didn't wanna move too much cause I didn't wanna set him off. Right. And so...

36:22
were carrying trash bags out to her car and terrified that he's going to drive up. Yeah, I can imagine. Come home early because that's absolutely something he would do. Right. But he didn't. Gonna test you. Exactly. Yeah. So he didn't. The next morning, my mom left and I had said, you know, I want to tell him in person that I'm leaving and I don't want you to be here when I do it. And looking back,

36:52
That was so, so dumb. If I could change one thing about the way that I did this, it would be that. Because thank God everything was okay, I am okay. But that when a victim is leaving, the physical act of leaving is the most dangerous time. So it could have gone one of two ways. He could have gotten really angry or he could have gotten really sad. I am so thankful that it went the latter.

37:22
But it's really interesting because in the frame of mind I was in, I'm leaving. I am in so much pain and so grief stricken, but I'm cleaning the apartment and I'm going grocery shopping for him because I'm like, well, he's not going to eat if I don't have food in the house for him and you know, I don't want him to have compassion or something. Yes. Well, and I don't even know that it's compassion. I think it's just this really messed up.

37:51
Codependency, just this idea that like, I still have to do all of these things to make sure that he's gonna be okay. So he actually called me on his way home and I don't know why, but he knew that I was leaving. And he actually asked me that, are you leaving? I said, yes. He said, will you wait until I get home before you go? And I said, yes. And so I did.

38:20
He got home, he cried, and I held it together until I got in my car. And then, yeah, I drove off and I have not seen him again in person. I called my mom who had just made it home from my house. I can't imagine how she was feeling this whole time. She turned right back around and drove with my brother to meet me halfway so that I didn't have to drive the whole way. But yeah, I mean.

38:50
So, such a big, and honestly, I would say that's not even the shift, because the shift came after the fact of, you know, having therapy and then realizing who I was and what my identity was. But, I mean, you really changed your life by having enough confidence in yourself at that moment in time to be like, no, this is the final straw. There's no more battles for me to try to win.

39:16
to get over this hill that people tell me about, that marriage is gonna be good once you get through this rough time. And I think you probably know this from your therapy and talking to a lot of people. It's like, that's a hard place to get to and then a lot of confidence in yourself to like make the decision to do it. So I mean, that is a big, like had you not done that, you know, like, I mean, I feel like you would not be able.

39:45
to be the person you are today. You would not be the person that was able to get therapy in a positive way to help you out. I mean, thank God for that therapist to kinda start planting the seeds that you do need to escape because I would, I mean, I'm sure she saw it in your group sessions and those kind of things and that's why. But I mean, if someone doesn't slowly plant those seeds for you to kind of come to this realization on your own,

40:15
that it's time for you to cut that cord. It's not a failure. It's not any of those things. It's a safety. It's a something you need to be yourself. You need to find yourself again. And I can see why that time with your mom was so joyful because you hadn't had that time with her in so long. You were probably bringing back memories of things that you had done together in the past. And you kind of probably remembered your past life a little bit in a way that was like, oh yeah, I've lost her.

40:44
Hmm, absolutely. When it was uncomplicated to just be and, you know, sit down and watch a movie and not just feel like the panic is rising. And feel love. Yeah. And like, unconditional. You didn't have to do anything for your mom during that time. Yeah. But yet you still felt loved by her and you still felt cared for and you didn't have to do anything. Whereas maybe in your marriage, you had to make sure you did.

41:15
18 things to get that one affirmation of something that maybe carried you over to the next one when it wasn't was meaningless, you know, and so good for you on making those decisions. I'm glad that that last situation that you say you would not do it that way again, worked out in the way that it did. But you know, I think was he trying to keep you there in a way like in the sad with his sadness? Was it like, I promise I'll do x, y and z.

41:43
Yeah, he came in with flowers, more flowers than he had ever given me before in our entire relationship. And, you know, he was kneeling on the ground and there was definitely... And in the place I am in now, like, I do have compassion for him because of his own... His own traumas and his own, you know, people generally don't get to the place of becoming that...

42:13
without their own unprocessed stuff. And it's his responsibility to process that stuff. So when I say compassion, I don't mean justification in any sense of the word, but there is a part of me that's sad for him. Yeah, and also because you've been able to do the work on yourself to become the person you are and deal with that trauma that he caused on you. And so I can understand that like.

42:40
I feel bad for him because he hasn't gotten to that place or maybe he has, but in any case, he hadn't been at the point that you are now. So you said that you were still that person when you left. You were still that lost kind of person with a little bit more confidence, but then you were able to take action to become this version of you. What was that journey like for you to be you now? Yeah, I moved away for a year from, I went to Romania.

43:10
That's a big shift. Yeah. It was absolutely what I needed at the time, and I'm super grateful for it, but I was not in an emotional place to have done that. So I only stayed for a year. I was working with an organization that I'm still very close with to this day. I very much appreciate them. But again, my mom, I'm just so thankful for her.

43:38
for what she focused on and how she approached it because she has no training in any of this. This was all just her intuition and her love. Her thing for me when I came home because I had to move back in with them was there is no expectations on you except that you go to therapy. And so I was in therapy a week after I moved home.

44:07
and I spent a lot of time in therapy and it was one of the best things I ever did. I am so grateful for that experience, but it took years to get to a place, the place that I am now. And it's hard because again, time is funny, right? Like I was married for a year and a half. In the grand scheme of your life, it's such a small time.

44:37
But when, where trauma is concerned, trauma does not care about time. And so it happened and I can't unknow that. I can't, you know, be the person I was before I knew what that was like. So it's there, you know? So it's hard, but it's been really interesting and really cool to look back on the journey of therapy.

45:05
specifically because I just remember being in it and feeling like nothing is changing. I would feel like I was moving forward and then I would regress and then I did that dance. I remember looking back for the first time, I was probably a couple of years into therapy at that point and really understanding how far I had come in that time.

45:34
And it didn't mean that things were perfect or that I was perfect, but it meant that I could see the journey and I could see the steps that I had taken to get myself back. And to learn the tools of like self-awareness and to understand that there are going to be moments in which you have feelings about certain things that are not.

46:02
what we would deem great feelings, right? And that that's okay, that's going to happen because we're human and we need to process things in our own way and that we're not always gonna be happy, we're not always gonna be sad, we're not, you know, but we are going to touch on all these areas and it's okay. And probably for so long, you were living in this fear state in which you had to perform that you were happy all the time in front of him or sad in some capacity, but.

46:31
I think that's such, like when I was doing therapy, such a journey for me to understand that there were no expectations in how I needed to exist. And if I had a bad day, that was okay. It wasn't going to be forever. And I knew how to get through. And I knew that I could. And I think that's a big part of the therapy journey is like really just trusting the fact that you understand yourself enough to like kind of go through this process.

47:01
Oh, I agree 100%. And having the tools, like you said, the tools to, you know, what are your coping mechanisms? Are they healthy? Are they gonna get you to a place of feeling good and not make you go further into this place of sadness and grief and unhealth? What's the biggest difference between like this version of you and the version of you right after you kind of escaped, if you will, and just the way that you operate in the world? Yeah.

47:31
the confidence for sure. I had none when I left. And even before I got married, I would say it wasn't something that I was, I was more of a fake it till you make it kind of person where my confidence was concerned. And I will say, you know, I'm in my 30s now. So part of that is growing up, I feel like, but I feel like I had such an opportunity to grow into myself.

48:01
because really there was a part of me, there is a part of me that feels like it was almost like a blank slate when I left, right? Like I was completely broken, but I also was kind of like, well, I don't know what anything is anymore. I don't know who I am. I don't know what I believe. I don't know who others are. So let's figure it out. And so there's a part of me that was really like,

48:31
All right, I'm reinventing who I am and what I value. Yeah, I think there is something about age too, I think for me growing up, so much of that confidence came from external validation of people telling me that I was good at something or awards or grades or whatever those were. And then it wasn't until I kind of processed all the stuff that was making me feel that way.

48:58
that a lot of that confidence comes from internal validation. Like you just, you feel good about the things that you've done, which then in turn builds that confidence in what you do. I mean, the way that you talk about your journey now with your podcasts and being able to share these stories, there's just like such a light and a joy. And I'm wondering if back in those days, were you as interested in other people's stories and how you could relate to them? Or is this like a new found kind of like...

49:28
I want to hear other people's experiences. So I will say that as long as I can remember, I have wanted to hear stories. I was the kid that at parties would go up to the oldest person I could find. Really? Yeah, and be like, tell me about your life. What was it like growing up? I think part of that was interest. I think a big part of it was I had

49:56
massive social anxiety around my peers. And older people were easier to be around for me. And so I think I was kind of born into this by accident. But I really loved hearing these stories from from older generations. And having stories from my grandparents was always a huge thing as well. They were all storytellers. And so.

50:25
that was always such a highlight to be able to experience, especially as I got older. And then I also did want to be a writer. So that was one of the reasons I decided not to go to college was because, well, I'm not trying to be a doctor. I don't have to go to college to do this. Not that it's not helpful for some people, I'm sure. But I was like, I want to be a writer. I can learn. I can take classes, whatever.

50:54
But so that has always, story has always been in my DNA for sure. But what I'm doing now, I don't think would have happened without my own experience because the understanding and the empathy that I possess simply because of the journey that I've walked, I wouldn't have had access to that before.

51:23
And so I think it all has kind of culminated to this point in my life, and it all has purpose. But I truly believe that the person I am now was shaped by the person I was then. It's weird to think, like, as you tell that story, it's like you couldn't get to this place without that. And it's weird to think about these terrible moments in our lives that kind of like...

51:53
in a bad, I mean, in a good way, but terribly served some weird purpose to get us to where we are. It's really hard to say that, you know, thinking that like, if my mom hadn't died in the way that she did, would we be having this conversation? Would I have the opportunity to talk to so many people about their stories and then share them with the world? It's, it's a weird...

52:19
I don't know, I guess every piece of our lives serve this purpose if we can choose to do like what you did and being forced into therapy, but then wanting to stay into therapy and kind of build more of that allows you to create the space that might be therapy for someone else in a non-traditional way, right? Because some of these people maybe that you're talking to don't go to therapy, and this is their first opportunity to share their story, but without you having gone through that journey.

52:48
you know, would you be able to do it as well? Truly, yeah, I believe that. Trauma-informed care is so important and there's not enough of it. So in terms of people that have experienced trauma in some way, I believe are kind of intrinsically in tune to some trauma-informed care, just because it's something that you've walked through. And so you know what not to say. But I think, and this especially coming from

53:17
the Christian perspective, one of the biggest things that I have tried to do is advocate for specifically women in religion who are in domestic violence situations, just because it can be a really oppressive environment. Now, a full disclosure, I believe in God still, but my faith has completely changed from where it was.

53:46
prior to getting married. And so one of the things that grinds my gears is when people say, you know, it was a blessing that you went through what you went through because look how God is using that. Now, I know there is no malice meant in that, but as somebody that has walked through that, you know,

54:12
why did I have to experience that to be used by God? Why did your mom have to die for you to be used by God? That didn't have to happen, right? And so I think making a distinction between choosing to heal from your trauma and extend empathy and compassion and understanding is completely different than assigning

54:41
a divine or cosmic role. Everything happens for a reason kind of thing. Right. I agree. It's a weird space and it's a weird thing to have to explain. And so I think that's a beautiful way of bringing that up. To your point, I don't think people say it in a way to make us feel bad, but there is a distinction. And I think there are a lot of people that have experienced trauma in similar ways that haven't.

55:10
had the opportunity to process it. Your ex is an example of that. Perhaps that trauma, had it been done, we would be having a different conversation or not be talking at all. And so we do have to walk through it, and we have to walk through it in a positive way. And it seems like you've had the ability and the confidence in yourself to do that, and now you're changing things for other people. Or you're at least kicking those things off. So I like to kind of.

55:40
wrap these conversations up with a question. And I'm wondering if like what you know now and the journey that you've been on with therapy and finding who you are, if you could go back to that Jennifer that is thinking, you know, we're going to therapy, maybe I'm the problem here, maybe I'm messing this all up. Is there anything that you would wanna say to her right now to help her feel better about herself or move through life?

56:09
I think the obvious thing that comes to mind is leave. Get out. But I think more than that, something that I really struggled with after I left was...

56:27
I'm not allowed to get divorced, but I'm in so much pain and I am so broken that if divorce is the thing that sends me to hell, I don't care. I am in that bad of a place and it's either going to be my life in this marriage or it's gonna be my life outside of it. And so I think the biggest thing that I would wanna communicate is that

56:57
any decision that you make, you are still loved and held. And the God that I believe in, grieves with you and laments with you and wants justice for you. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, and if you told her to leave, she probably wasn't ready at that point, you know, and she needed to go.

57:24
she needed to get that bag packed and she needed to have this little process so that you felt confident in that decision. But I think that's a really interesting response and I think it's so honest and it's hard for someone. I'm not super religious or spiritual in that way, but I know a lot of people that are and some of them are so held tight to a book or to what...

57:52
this congregation says or this congregation says which may not align with the other one. And sometimes we have to trust ourselves and we have to believe in our own faith and what that means to us to move forward. And so I think that's a really honest response. And thank you for sharing that. I think it's super special. Thank you.

58:15
If people want to learn more about you or get in your orbit or maybe be on your show, what's the best way to be around you and learn more about you? Or maybe they just want to tell you about your story. What's the best way to get in touch with you? Yeah, at my website, thehxpod.com, they can find anything. Contact forms, episodes, social media.

58:43
Yeah, and I would love to hear from anybody. So whether you have a story that you want to share with the world, or you just need somebody to tell it to in private, I absolutely welcome that. That's awesome. We will share that information in the show notes. You know how it goes as a podcaster. And I think it's if you're listening to this episode, and maybe you've experienced something that Jennifer has experienced or talked about today, or maybe you are in a relationship now.

59:10
You just need someone to bounce an idea off of, please go to her website. And I know she would be listening, and I know that she would want that for her older version of herself as well. So thank you for listening. Share this with a friend. Ratings, reviews, all those lovely things. Thank you so much for doing this, Jennifer. I appreciate you for just being vulnerable and getting through what you got through and becoming this version of you. Thank you. I've had a great time. It's...

59:38
It's truly a pleasure to be able to sit in a safe space and share stories. So I appreciate what you're doing. Well, thank you so much. And for those of you listening, I will be back next week with a brand new episode of the Life Shift podcast.