Transcript
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What drives you?
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What makes you so ambitious, Jake?
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Challenges excite me.
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Seeing what I can accomplish and how far I can
push my own self, becoming a world champion in
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the sport of boxing is my goal.
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But on top of that, you also want to be a
billionaire and build one of the largest sports
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gaming companies.
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So you're already rich.
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You already have your boxing.
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Why start a sports betting company?
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Probably one of the hardest things to do in the
world is to create a $1,000,000,000 company.
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So it's one of my goals just to say that I was
able
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to do it.
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Roughly half of billionaires attribute a lot of
their success to psychedelics.
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Do you attribute psychedelics as a source of
your success?
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100%.
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No question about it.
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Well, Jake Jake Paul, Joey Levy, cofounders of
Better, among many other things.
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Great to have you guys on the podcast.
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Welcome to Unlimited Partner Podcast.
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Yeah.
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Great.
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Great to be here.
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Appreciate you having us on, David.
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Yeah.
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Thank you.
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Excited.
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Thank you.
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So as I was telling you before the show, I
spoke to a mutual friend of ours and NBA head
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coach, Mike Brown, who last year won won NBA
coach of the year.
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And he said, Jake, the what you accomplished in
boxing last 3 years is one of the greatest
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sports he's ever seen in history.
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How are you able to accomplish what you were
accomplishing going from amateur to, being an
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elite fighter in 3 years?
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Wow.
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That's a good well, that's a crazy statement
coming from, Mike.
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So, Mike, what's up?
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Cameron, Elijah, what's up, everybody?
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I miss you guys.
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Hope you're doing well.
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But, yeah, the I I don't know, man.
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It just it's believing in yourself and self
belief and not letting others constraints of
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what they think is possible in reality,
limiting your own beliefs, and it shows what's
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possible with extreme dedication for 16 hours a
day and surrounding yourself with the best
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people at the highest level, and just
manifestation, visualization, and truly
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believing within yourself that you can do
something and being a disruptor, coming in with
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a different skill set at the right time.
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I mean, this is all about venture capital and
investing in all this stuff.
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Everything's about timing, and I came into the
sport when it was dying on its way out and gave
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it this breath of of fresh air.
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And I saw the opportunity to do so, and I saw
how much help the sport needed, and I saw a lot
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of room to make changes, and that's really
what's happened.
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I like that answer, but but I I was with you
after, at Komodo, after the fight.
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Me and Jessica were were were you were kind
enough to host us at the last, DS fight, and
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you were still zeroed in.
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You had just won, and everybody was partying.
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You had Dave Grotman.
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You had, Purple.
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You had all these guys, and you were still
zeroed in.
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I've never seen somebody so focused in.
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What drives you?
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What what makes you so ambitious, Jake?
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I would say challenges excite me, and seeing
what I can accomplish and how far I can push my
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own self is a really fun game to play.
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And just getting better every single day gives
me something to continue to work on, and having
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purpose, and setting very, very high goals for
myself that are super far fetched.
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Like, becoming a world champion in the sport of
boxing is my goal.
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Right?
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So if I beat Nate Diaz, that's great and all,
like, yeah, maybe celebrate a little bit, but
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that's a speck on what I want to actually
accomplish in the long run.
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So, yeah, everyone's partying at Komodo, but
actually, I'm gonna choose to remain sober
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because that's gonna help me get to my goal
faster and there and I just choose my moments
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where I where I wanna have fun, but I just have
so much to prove and have 2 chips on each
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shoulder and just that that's a short summary
of what drives me.
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There's so much more, but yeah.
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And also, just following up on that, so you
wanna be world champion boxer, which, by the
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way, a year and a half ago, everybody was
laughing at you and thought that that was a
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crazy goal.
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Now people are like, can he do it?
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Can he not do it?
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Which is a huge evolution.
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But on top of that, you also want to be a
billionaire and build one of the largest sports
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gaming companies.
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So you're already rich.
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You already have your boxing.
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Why start a sports betting company?
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You know, life is a game, and we're we're
playing, real real life monopoly.
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And since I was 17 years old, I I was surround
I went to Silicon Valley with my friend for
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about a week.
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I thought it was the coolest thing ever, the
challenges of these startups, getting to go
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around.
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I went to Uber, Google, Twitter at the time,
and I saw all of these people working towards
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these goals and and the feats that they were
achieving.
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I think when I went to Google, they were, like,
first experimenting with AI or, like, quantum
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computing or some crazy thing, and I was like,
I couldn't even comprehend it as a 17 year old
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from Ohio.
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I saw these people changing the world, the
challenges they were facing, the the levels
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they were surmounting to, and I think that has
been within me.
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And I was and I saw these people, and I got to
talk to these CEOs.
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And I was like, they're really no different
than anybody else.
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If they can do this and achieve these huge
things, then then so can I?
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And to me, it's fun.
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It's it's literally real life Monopoly.
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You have to play all these pieces on the
puzzle, and and the challenge of getting to
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that level, I think, is probably the hard
probably one of the hardest things to do in the
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world is to create a $1,000,000,000 company.
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So it's one of my goals just to see and to say
that I was able to do it.
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When you were playing Monopoly as a kid, who on
you or Logan?
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It was probably a back and forth.
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I say I I can't play UNO with my friends
because I just get so pissed off.
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It's a common thing in startups.
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Peter Thiel, apparently, when he loses chess,
he throw throws over the, throws over the
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chessboard, according to David Sacks, another
venture capitalist.
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But, you know, you mentioned visualization,
working 16 hours a day as a source of your
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success, but ultimately, you only have 24 hours
a day.
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You talk a lot about psychedelics.
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I know from personal experience, roughly half
of billionaires attribute a lot of their
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success to psychedelics.
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Do you attribute psychedelics as a source of
your success?
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100%.
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No question about it.
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I think you have to understand yourself and go
inwards and work inwards and emotional
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intelligence and all of these things before you
can, like, really master everything.
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And business is all about relationship, team,
understanding everyone else, working together
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in this way.
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And psychedelics actually gives you, like,
opening into that world, those energies, how to
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be a part of a community, love, push, pull,
being a good leader.
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You know, all of these things kind of get
opened up and you allow you to see things from
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a a different perspective.
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And then just the amazing ideas that come from
it.
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Right?
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It's like Steve Jobs created the iPod off of
some acid because he was like, why can't I
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bring the music with me?
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Absolutely.
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Steve Jobs even created Apple back in the day,
from from his LSD experiences.
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Sergey Brin and Elon Musk on the record as
being big proponents of psychedelics and and
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crediting a lot of that for for their success.
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We have a show.
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We have some of the top venture capitalists in
the world that come on and and their fund
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funders.
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We have some very smart marketing people.
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But, Jake, I think you are one of the most
underrated marketing geniuses, really, in the
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world.
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And the reason I say that is because you found
a way to be successful from platform to
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platform, from Vine to Instagram to TikTok, and
that's almost unprecedented.
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So I have to ask you this whole, problem child
persona, this whole fuck Jake Paul thing, is
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this a marketing gimmick?
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Is this how you get fans?
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Can you spill the beans on that?
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Good news travels fast.
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Bad news travels faster.
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People like drama.
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They like controversy.
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They like the things that are different.
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People wanna see something that they've never
seen before.
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And to cut right to the top in news and gossip
and drama, it's like ruffle feathers.
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Mhmm.
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And then that was the strategy from day 1 to
break to be a social media star.
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How did I first break into the mainstream
media?
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I had all of these ideas, and it was ruffling
feathers.
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And I can I can play that character and be the
bad guy and be the villain, and that's kind of
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how people have painted me and then I embraced
it?
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And I was like, okay, cool.
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This is this is where we're gonna go with this,
but it works way better in the long run than
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than just being the, you know, person with no
opinion one way or the other.
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And we see that a lot of times now as, like,
not choosing a side is is choosing a side.
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So definitely very strategic and thoughtful
around all of this, and it just perfectly
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aligns with boxing and, you know, having
opponents and and shit talking and all and the
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world I'm in.
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It's one thing, you know, I saw you.
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It's one thing to say you like playing the
villain, but actually doing it.
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I saw you come out in Dallas and everybody
booing you, and you just had the most stoic
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face and just that were so internally focused.
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It was inspiring, to be honest.
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It's very cool to see, kind of in practice.
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So so let's go to Joey.
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So, Joey, you did what?
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To be completely frank, I had never met Jake.
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I've been really impressed by Jake in person.
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You know, I think he has the same persona as a
Unicorn founder without all the social media
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and all the boxing.
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I I think you saw that too, but you put your
money where your mouth is.
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You you gave half of your company to on a crazy
bet on an influencer, however famous, but
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ultimately a celebrity.
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What what did you see in Jake that made you
really give up half of your company to him?
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Well, 1st and foremost, I'm a big believer in
when you build a business with somebody not to
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have this sort of wonky set of incentives where
one individual who, you know, if you if you're
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truly a cofounder, I think cofounder should
have equal amounts of equity unless there's
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some level of extenuating circumstances where
that doesn't make sense.
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So that's kinda how I wanted to approach this
from from day 1 where if I was gonna have a
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cofounder in this business because as as you
know, David, and, you know, I don't I don't
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know if the broader, better story is is out
there, but I started my prior business,
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SimpleBet, to be a direct to consumer company
and ultimately do what we're effectively doing
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at Better.
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And I was on a mission to spin out direct to
consumer from SimpleBet and go after Better.
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And, initially, I was gonna do it, you know,
myself.
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Right?
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So but when I met Jake and spent a lot of time
with him, and I think you touched upon this a
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couple of minutes ago, it's not just the
70,000,000 followers across social media, which
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obviously brings a pretty tremendous unfair
advantage from a customer acquisition
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standpoint.
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But it's really the the the marketing genius
that I don't think a lot of people, candidly
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have in in this country or or globally, and
Jake has the track record to to really speak to
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that and, just the level of, focus and
discipline.
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And I would say one of the things that Jake and
I Jake and I really have in common is is the
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level of ambition we have.
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Anything less than a $10,000,000,000 publicly
traded outcome for basically be considered a
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failure, I think, by for from our perspective.
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So I think we just got along really well and
have similar goals and and objectives and have
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a very complimentary skill set where, you know,
I've basically spent my entire adult life, the
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last 10 years of of my life going after the
same consumer experience problem in sports
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gaming.
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And Jake's been spending the last decade of his
life, focused on, you know, being arguably the
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most disruptive marketer on the Internet.
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And, you know, sports gaming and sports media
are increasingly converging, and I think we
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just have really complimentary, skill sets to
go after an incredibly ambitious problem and
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company together and really just an alignment
of values that enables us to work well
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together.
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Speaking of alignment, one of your investors
told me I'm not going to share who it was, but
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that originally, Jake, offered to be 604060
you, Joey, 40 m, and you said no 5050.
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Again, this is skin the game.
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This is alignment.
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Tell me a little bit about that.
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Yeah.
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Like I said, I mean, I think it's better to be
5050 partners.
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You know, I want I I think it's just for for
Jake to have the same level of incentive that I
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do is is critical to the success of the
company.
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And, you know, I'd much rather own 50% of a 10
or a $100,000,000,000 company than 60% of
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something that's worth a $100,000,000.
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And, you know, I just don't think that you can
do this to the level required, particularly
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with, you know, somebody like like Jake that
has a tremendous level of opportunity cost.
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I mean, there's a whole lot a lot of other
things that Jake could be doing, than if we
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weren't both equally tied as as being the
largest shareholders of this business.
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Jake, tell me a little bit about that.
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I see when when I went to the fight in Dallas
and everything, you're ducked down better.
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I know I know you guys also may have tattoos,
which we'll go into later.
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But you're so committed to the business and
you're so aligned with it.
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How has that relationship been with Joey?
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And how's your relationship been in founding
the company together?
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It's been phenomenal.
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And like Joey said earlier, sharing that same
level of ambition, it's it's either a a a 1000
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miles per hour or, you know, not at all.
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And I'm I'm the first half of that sentiment
where it's like, if I'm gonna do anything, I'm
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gonna go at it 1000% and give it my best effort
every single day, day in and day out and do
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everything I possibly can to ensure this
company's success, you know, on a minute to
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minute, second to second basis.
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And that's the attitude Joey has.
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That's and that's the attitude of the team that
we've built has.
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This is a do or die.
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And, you know, at the end of the day, also,
this a lot of this, company's success like, my
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reputation is on the line here.
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Right?
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And I think Joey shares that as well.
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And so we will make this company a
$10,000,000,000 company, and and I stand on
255
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that.
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And it it goes down to the finest details of,
yeah, like, getting getting it tattooed or, you
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know, it being on
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every I think you tattooed it from 2 different
sides for the camera angles.
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Is that is that right?
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Yeah.
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I so it's on, like, the inner knee and on the
outer knee so that, like, anytime people take a
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photo of me while I'm fighting the the logo.
263
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Insane.
264
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A couple of things on that.
265
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One is, Jake, it's not like you're saying I
want to be a billionaire in some vacuum.
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You're giving up 1,000,000 and 1,000,000 of
sponsorship of space on the ring, of space on
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yourself, on space on your body in order to
commit and invest your equity essentially in
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that company.
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So I think that's something that's undervalued.
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The other aspect of that is you guys have not
only do you both have tattoos, which I've never
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heard.
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I was an early investor in Palantir, and they
had this cult like, product and cult like
273
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company, but they never had tattoos.
274
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So you guys are beating them on that.
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But you also convinced employees to tattoo
yourself.
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Tell tell me about that.
277
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Well, I don't I don't think we've convinced
them.
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Like Yeah.
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Everyone was everyone's just down because
that's the culture, I guess, that's created.
280
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And this is this is people's lives within the
company.
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It's it's my life.
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It's it's Joey's life.
283
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And I think one of the only ways to really have
a breakthrough dominant company in this space,
284
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which is very difficult, very, you know,
intense.
285
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There's big players involved.
286
00:16:07,475 --> 00:16:07,715
You know?
287
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There's licensing regulations.
288
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Like, we have to eat, breathe, and sleep this.
289
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And I think since the first on early hires that
was just the culture, and now it's permeated
290
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throughout the rest of the company, and and
this is this is everyone's lives.
291
00:16:23,720 --> 00:16:25,639
So let's actually go into the company itself.
292
00:16:25,639 --> 00:16:31,800
So better so from a first principles basis,
maybe, Joey, tell me about why why do we really
293
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need another sports gaming company?
294
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There's a lot of sports gaming companies out
there.
295
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Why do you guys exist?
296
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Yeah.
297
00:16:36,555 --> 00:16:41,595
So I I would say this is predominantly around
the incremental TAM that's not that's being
298
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underserved in in sports gaming.
299
00:16:44,875 --> 00:16:52,240
So for example, FanDuel and DraftKings are
worth about $2015,000,000,000 respectively.
300
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Yet they combined, they only have about
5,000,000 monthly active users, which is a lot
301
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for real money gaming.
302
00:17:00,674 --> 00:17:05,634
But if you take a step back for a moment,
you'll realize that they're currently in front
303
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of a 100,000,000 gambling age sports fans, and
they'll be in front of nearly double that
304
00:17:10,994 --> 00:17:13,860
200,000,000 as more jurisdictions open up.
305
00:17:13,860 --> 00:17:18,360
And I think we can all agree that FanDuel and
DraftKings don't have a brand awareness
306
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problem.
307
00:17:18,980 --> 00:17:19,220
Right?
308
00:17:19,220 --> 00:17:23,860
They quite literally advertise like like car
insurance companies, except they're probably
309
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not as funny as they are.
310
00:17:26,005 --> 00:17:33,765
So they have brand awareness, but there's about
a 95% incremental TAM opportunity, and we think
311
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it's due to product.
312
00:17:35,045 --> 00:17:40,390
I mean, everything we do at Better, really, the
the primary emphasis of the company is to
313
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design sports gaming experiences that are
simple and intuitive enough for people to
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interact with them even if they've never played
fantasy sports before or bet on sports before.
315
00:17:52,144 --> 00:17:55,984
And I think we've accomplished that
particularly with the Better Picks product
316
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experience, which, we rolled out, just 2 months
ago on September 5th ahead of the, beginning of
317
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the NFL season.
318
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And it's immediately become one of the fastest
growing products, not just in the industry
319
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today, but I think in the history of the of the
US, sports gaming industry.
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And we're excited to roll out b one of our of
our sports book next year and and really have a
321
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sports book business, a fantasy business that
that is already very successful and, and then
322
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ultimately expand into other verticals.
323
00:18:26,914 --> 00:18:33,174
But but, really, this is about that incremental
TAM of the casual sports fan who doesn't know
324
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what a minus 175 money line means, doesn't know
what a plus 5 and a half point spread means,
325
00:18:38,289 --> 00:18:44,690
doesn't know what a 49.5 o slash u means,
doesn't wanna interact with a with a sports
326
00:18:44,690 --> 00:18:47,909
book that is essentially an uninterpretable
spreadsheet.
327
00:18:48,234 --> 00:18:53,835
Like, as you know, David, I got involved in
this category about 7 year really 10 years ago
328
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with with DraftBot, my daily fantasy business,
but in the sports betting category specifically
329
00:18:58,394 --> 00:19:04,589
about 7 years ago when I started a project that
ultimately became SimpleBet because I was a,
330
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you know, Ivy League educated daily fantasy
sports operator that when the first time I
331
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tried to use a sportsbook, I literally did not
know how to use it.
332
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It wasn't intuitive to me that minus 175 meant
to bet 175 to win a 100.
333
00:19:18,274 --> 00:19:23,154
And it also struck me that it quite literally
looked like a spreadsheet when I thought sports
334
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gaming was all about enhancing the consumption
of sports and being fun and engaging and
335
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entertaining, you know, be analogous to sort of
another industry.
336
00:19:31,809 --> 00:19:37,330
We view the current products as kind of being
the E Trade Fidelity, Charles Schwab's, what
337
00:19:37,330 --> 00:19:39,109
those companies were today trading.
338
00:19:39,170 --> 00:19:43,109
Nobody's really built the Robinhood of gambling
from a UI UX perspective.
339
00:19:43,570 --> 00:19:48,545
And that's ultimately, why we started why we
started Better and why we think there's a
340
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pretty sub substantial, market opportunity for
this business.
341
00:19:52,465 --> 00:19:56,244
And, Tam, total addressable market,
essentially, how big the market is.
342
00:19:56,545 --> 00:20:00,659
A lot of people passed on Uber originally
because they said the taxi market isn't big
343
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enough.
344
00:20:00,900 --> 00:20:03,859
And, of course, now Uber is bigger than the
entire taxi market.
345
00:20:03,859 --> 00:20:08,679
I think all power law outcomes, all outcomes
that return a 100 x or the 10,000,000,000,
346
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$100,000,000,000 companies that you guys aspire
to fundamentally have to expand the TAM, expand
347
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the market, or else they would already be, you
know, highly competitive.
348
00:20:17,674 --> 00:20:22,234
They're one of the main reasons that I invest
in Better was because of your customer
349
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acquisition strategy and how you're able to
leverage media in order to drive down your
350
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cost.
351
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Can you tell me a little bit about that?
352
00:20:27,914 --> 00:20:33,390
I think this was one of the biggest problems we
saw in the industry was where are DraftKings
353
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and FanDuel and some maybe some of these other
companies, you know, what are what's their
354
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biggest expense?
355
00:20:39,049 --> 00:20:40,269
And it it's marketing.
356
00:20:40,730 --> 00:20:43,950
1,000,000,000 of dollars, you know, out the
door.
357
00:20:44,204 --> 00:20:51,085
So if we can come in and completely flip that,
you know, lower that expense tenfold and have
358
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better brand awareness with original content,
then we're gonna be eons ahead of everyone
359
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else.
360
00:20:56,924 --> 00:21:00,990
And that's where the two divisions of, you
know, Better Media and then, you know, the
361
00:21:00,990 --> 00:21:06,750
sports gaming side come into play where we've
now created this whole content network and
362
00:21:06,750 --> 00:21:16,015
ecosystem and talent and original content 247
that has grown the brand massively to be bigger
363
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and more recognizable and more well known than
these some of these other companies who have
364
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been spending 1,000,000,000 and 1,000,000,000
of dollars on the marketing.
365
00:21:24,255 --> 00:21:30,470
And what that allows us to do is add brand
affinity, more loyalty to our customers.
366
00:21:30,850 --> 00:21:37,650
People feel more comfortable with our brand and
and trusting the the product, and it lowers our
367
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customer acquisition costs significantly.
368
00:21:41,170 --> 00:21:45,454
And we've seen that, to date be super, super
effective.
369
00:21:45,914 --> 00:21:49,214
And quite frankly, it's one of our biggest x
factors.
370
00:21:49,515 --> 00:21:51,355
Are we talking about 20, 30 percent?
371
00:21:51,355 --> 00:21:52,634
What goes on with your CAC?
372
00:21:52,634 --> 00:21:58,154
It's an order of magnitude more efficient than
the other than sort of the average blended CPA
373
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that that we've heard the other operators are
currently experiencing.
374
00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:06,400
And, you know, I think one of the things that
you know, obviously, a lot of respect for for
375
00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:09,840
Barstool Sports and and the endeavor to go
after the Barstool Sports book.
376
00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:15,115
But one of the the differences in our approach,
I would say, when we decided to launch our
377
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sports gaming business and Penn decided to to
pursue the Barstool Sportsbook brand is that
378
00:22:21,434 --> 00:22:28,259
it's not just about the organic audience to
product conversion, but, arguably, the
379
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predominant value of media is that halo effect
that it creates around your brand, as Jake
380
00:22:34,339 --> 00:22:37,480
alluded to, not just brand awareness, but brand
affinity.
381
00:22:38,019 --> 00:22:38,500
Right?
382
00:22:38,500 --> 00:22:43,974
So when you do paid user acquisition, you have
best in class efficiency.
383
00:22:44,115 --> 00:22:50,134
When, you know, consumers are scrolling on
TikTok and there's a better advertisement
384
00:22:50,274 --> 00:22:56,079
there, it almost feels like organic content
because they're already familiar with the
385
00:22:56,079 --> 00:22:56,400
brand.
386
00:22:56,400 --> 00:22:57,440
They're familiar with Jake.
387
00:22:57,440 --> 00:23:01,700
Maybe they're familiar with Derek or or one of
our other content creators, and they'll stop.
388
00:23:01,759 --> 00:23:04,660
They'll ultimately convert with with best in
class efficiency.
389
00:23:04,799 --> 00:23:10,805
So we've been able to strike a really nice
balance, I think, between not just the organic
390
00:23:10,805 --> 00:23:16,345
audience product conversion, but leveraging the
brand affinity we've developed predominantly
391
00:23:16,565 --> 00:23:22,585
through original short form video to enable
best in class efficiency on the paid UA side,
392
00:23:22,724 --> 00:23:23,865
which is really scalable.
393
00:23:23,924 --> 00:23:24,164
Right?
394
00:23:24,164 --> 00:23:25,384
Because that's just money.
395
00:23:25,490 --> 00:23:25,809
Right?
396
00:23:25,809 --> 00:23:30,289
If you have a good unit economics formula
where, you know, you're confident that for
397
00:23:30,289 --> 00:23:35,570
every dollar in marketing investment you spend,
you're gonna get $8 in return for that, which,
398
00:23:36,849 --> 00:23:42,565
you know, may or may not be what what we're
currently experiencing, then, it's just math at
399
00:23:42,565 --> 00:23:42,964
that point.
400
00:23:42,964 --> 00:23:49,204
And and when payback periods are as tight as as
we're seeing them, at Better, you actually have
401
00:23:49,204 --> 00:23:55,430
an interesting dynamic where you can gradually
pull forward marketing investment, maintain CAC
402
00:23:55,430 --> 00:24:02,390
efficiency, and actually accelerate your path
to profitability, while also growing the
403
00:24:02,390 --> 00:24:05,289
business because the unit economics are so
attractive.
404
00:24:05,509 --> 00:24:10,355
Is Better Better a media company with a betting
arm or a betting company with a media arm?
405
00:24:10,355 --> 00:24:13,015
It feels to me like it's more of a media
company.
406
00:24:13,154 --> 00:24:15,875
I would challenge that, a little bit at least.
407
00:24:15,875 --> 00:24:18,914
We're we're, 1st and foremost, a a gaming
business.
408
00:24:18,914 --> 00:24:23,369
And if you look at how we monetize the the
company, that really reflects that.
409
00:24:23,369 --> 00:24:23,609
Right?
410
00:24:23,609 --> 00:24:28,809
I mean, we we are monetizing better media
independent of better gaming, and, you know, we
411
00:24:28,809 --> 00:24:32,515
do work with some great brand partners on that
side of the house.
412
00:24:32,515 --> 00:24:39,335
But everything we do first and foremost is to
develop, brand awareness and brand affinity to
413
00:24:39,474 --> 00:24:45,634
enable us to have best in class efficiency on
customer acquisition for our suite of of better
414
00:24:45,634 --> 00:24:46,515
gaming products.
415
00:24:46,515 --> 00:24:54,160
And, the the vast, vast, vast level of energy
and resource allocation and focus is geared
416
00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:56,740
towards monetization via better gaming.
417
00:24:57,440 --> 00:25:03,315
And and we're really, starting to see that in a
significant way with with the Betterpix product
418
00:25:03,315 --> 00:25:03,974
in particular.
419
00:25:04,034 --> 00:25:08,394
It sounds like startup CEO speak for not
wanting to give away your secret sauce, but
420
00:25:08,595 --> 00:25:10,214
well, I'll leave it at that.
421
00:25:10,515 --> 00:25:11,974
Let's let's talk numbers.
422
00:25:12,355 --> 00:25:15,075
So you guys are doing exceptionally well.
423
00:25:15,075 --> 00:25:16,454
This is q4 2023.
424
00:25:16,755 --> 00:25:18,210
Tell me a little bit about your numbers.
425
00:25:18,289 --> 00:25:18,450
You
426
00:25:18,450 --> 00:25:24,210
you might get a little bit more startup, CEO
speak just in the interest of not, you know,
427
00:25:24,210 --> 00:25:25,970
speaking out of turn and disclosing anything.
428
00:25:25,970 --> 00:25:28,630
We're under we're under a friend yet until this
launches.
429
00:25:28,690 --> 00:25:29,829
So, you know Yeah.
430
00:25:30,130 --> 00:25:31,909
I won't I'm still on people in.
431
00:25:32,375 --> 00:25:34,134
I'll give you some I'll give you some ballpark.
432
00:25:34,134 --> 00:25:34,535
Right?
433
00:25:34,535 --> 00:25:40,154
So we we launched Better initially as a media
brand, in August of 2022.
434
00:25:41,414 --> 00:25:50,369
We then, launched, our sports book business in
early, 2023, predominantly with a beta product,
435
00:25:50,369 --> 00:25:55,509
micro betting focused app to just start laying
the foundations of our online sportsbook
436
00:25:55,570 --> 00:25:59,525
business, establish our leadership position in
responsible gaming.
437
00:25:59,585 --> 00:26:04,384
For example, we're still the only operator to
ban credit cards as a depositing method and
438
00:26:04,384 --> 00:26:09,664
restrict the amount young consumers can deposit
on a monthly basis, young being 21 to 25 years
439
00:26:09,664 --> 00:26:14,769
old, because we truly believe that sports
gaming is for entertainment value, and people
440
00:26:14,769 --> 00:26:18,049
should technically not be able to gamble with
money that they don't have.
441
00:26:18,049 --> 00:26:22,450
Only after laying the foundations of our OSB
business and establishing our RG leadership
442
00:26:22,450 --> 00:26:28,275
position did we want to get into the fantasy
sports vertical, which we launched on September
443
00:26:28,275 --> 00:26:28,674
5th.
444
00:26:28,674 --> 00:26:34,134
So we launched we hard launched better pick on
September 5th, 2 days before the NFL season.
445
00:26:34,434 --> 00:26:39,715
And sitting here, we're we're filming this on
on November 11th, so, just about 2 months after
446
00:26:39,715 --> 00:26:40,295
the launch.
447
00:26:40,679 --> 00:26:48,200
And, you know, this is a high 8 figure revenue
run rate business already, possibly may end the
448
00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:51,159
year at beyond a 100,000,000 revenue run rate.
449
00:26:51,159 --> 00:26:56,775
The company likely does not need any
incremental capital, on top of our existing
450
00:26:56,775 --> 00:26:58,634
balance sheet to to get to profitability.
451
00:26:59,654 --> 00:27:06,634
Of course, we, you know, are exploring ways we
can be opportunistic with prospective
452
00:27:06,775 --> 00:27:11,470
investments in paid user acquisition,
particularly given we've been able to maintain
453
00:27:11,470 --> 00:27:17,549
efficiency despite increasing spend modestly
week over week, and we're just about to crack
454
00:27:17,549 --> 00:27:25,065
the 6 figure mark for active paying users,
despite launching this just about 2 months ago.
455
00:27:25,365 --> 00:27:30,724
So, no specific numbers there, but you have
some ballparks that that you could work
456
00:27:30,724 --> 00:27:31,204
against.
457
00:27:31,204 --> 00:27:32,085
I appreciate that.
458
00:27:32,085 --> 00:27:35,865
I'm starting to visualize a g five job for
myself, so I appreciate that.
459
00:27:36,325 --> 00:27:41,289
And speak speaking of jets, you know, you guys
you guys want to be a $10,000,000,000 company.
460
00:27:41,289 --> 00:27:44,250
I look at your competitors, 15, $20,000,000,000
company.
461
00:27:44,250 --> 00:27:48,349
I see you guys as as significantly better for
from a marketing standpoint.
462
00:27:48,970 --> 00:27:51,855
Is is there a path to being a $100,000,000,000
company here?
463
00:27:52,015 --> 00:27:52,414
Yes.
464
00:27:52,414 --> 00:27:56,095
It it goes back to that to the envelope math
that you just alluded to.
465
00:27:56,095 --> 00:28:01,294
I mean, I think the fact that FanDuel and
DraftKings are so valuable yet only have about
466
00:28:01,294 --> 00:28:05,609
5% market penetration really speaks to the
opportunity here.
467
00:28:05,849 --> 00:28:10,509
I mean, this this could candidly be be bigger
than a $100,000,000,000 business.
468
00:28:11,210 --> 00:28:15,049
I described this at the top as kind of the
Robinhood of gambling from a UI, UX
469
00:28:15,049 --> 00:28:15,549
perspective.
470
00:28:15,609 --> 00:28:21,105
And, obviously, Robinhood has done a a great
job from a financial perspective, and has
471
00:28:21,105 --> 00:28:23,764
resulted in a lot of returns for its earliest
investors.
472
00:28:23,984 --> 00:28:27,825
But the Robinhood of gambling will be
significantly larger than Robinhood because
473
00:28:27,825 --> 00:28:32,944
Robinhood is dealing with a finite amount of
public equities to that that consumers are
474
00:28:32,944 --> 00:28:34,565
interested in buying and selling.
475
00:28:34,759 --> 00:28:40,200
But there's an there's there's ultimately an
infinite amount of of of moments of sporting
476
00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:47,174
events to enable consumers to to bet on, to
enable consumers to, make player, you know,
477
00:28:47,174 --> 00:28:51,355
statistical predict predictions on on a product
like Better Picks.
478
00:28:52,134 --> 00:28:57,575
There's other verticals within gaming that we
can pursue as well, without really requiring a
479
00:28:57,575 --> 00:29:03,390
lot of incremental OPEX or CAPEX given we've
made the foundational investments in product
480
00:29:03,390 --> 00:29:09,410
technology operations, regulatory and
government affairs, and and then, of course,
481
00:29:09,950 --> 00:29:11,650
marketing, media, and brand.
482
00:29:12,029 --> 00:29:16,765
So we've made these foundational investments
over the past couple of years, and we can keep
483
00:29:16,765 --> 00:29:24,125
bolting on new verticals and new products like
Better Picks without really needing a
484
00:29:24,125 --> 00:29:27,085
significant amount of incremental capital or or
time.
485
00:29:27,085 --> 00:29:32,880
We should see some pretty interesting economies
of scale with this business as we continue to,
486
00:29:33,500 --> 00:29:38,480
keep our heads down, stay focused, execute
against our product roadmap, and rapidly grow
487
00:29:38,779 --> 00:29:40,940
our revenue and and customer base.
488
00:29:40,940 --> 00:29:41,900
What drives you, Joey?
489
00:29:41,900 --> 00:29:43,420
We met a couple of years ago.
490
00:29:43,420 --> 00:29:46,204
I I pretty much decided to invest after our
first dinner.
491
00:29:46,204 --> 00:29:50,365
You explained the gaming industry more clearly
than I had been hearing from people for 5
492
00:29:50,365 --> 00:29:50,865
years.
493
00:29:51,325 --> 00:29:55,724
But on a fundamental level, it seems it seems
evident what drives Jake.
494
00:29:55,724 --> 00:29:57,265
But what what drives you, Joey?
495
00:29:57,470 --> 00:30:03,869
So I dropped out of, Columbia University, a
little bit less than 10 years ago to pursue my
496
00:30:03,869 --> 00:30:05,549
my first sports gaming startup.
497
00:30:05,549 --> 00:30:10,430
And at the time, it was Daily Fantasy, which
was the only form of, legal sports gaming in
498
00:30:10,430 --> 00:30:15,134
the United States with essentially the same
vision that we have now, which is that, you
499
00:30:15,134 --> 00:30:19,454
know, at the time, FanDuel and DraftKings were
also the market leader, but in DFS, and I just
500
00:30:19,454 --> 00:30:25,214
felt like their product experiences were
fundamentally built for the power user that was
501
00:30:25,214 --> 00:30:31,670
using models and was researching for 3 hours a
day and was a high volume user.
502
00:30:31,670 --> 00:30:31,910
Right?
503
00:30:31,910 --> 00:30:36,869
So I I've always felt like sports gaming in
this country has been built for the power high
504
00:30:36,869 --> 00:30:42,630
volume user, but there's tens to 100 of
millions of casual sports fans that have not
505
00:30:42,630 --> 00:30:49,164
been delivered product experiences that are
simple, intuitive, and entertaining for for
506
00:30:49,164 --> 00:30:49,404
them.
507
00:30:49,404 --> 00:30:53,325
So I I went down this rabbit hole about a
decade ago when I dropped out of school to
508
00:30:53,325 --> 00:30:57,085
pursue my first business, and I've been down
that rabbit hole since.
509
00:30:57,085 --> 00:31:01,549
And, you know, I've had some success along the
way and, you know, quite the the level of,
510
00:31:02,169 --> 00:31:05,529
financial success that Jake's had, but I've had
some a little bit myself.
511
00:31:05,529 --> 00:31:10,889
And, you know, SimpleBet is a is a valuable
business, which was my company before this.
512
00:31:10,889 --> 00:31:15,744
And the the motivation is is less financial now
and more just about winning the category.
513
00:31:16,125 --> 00:31:23,849
I mean, my entire adult life has been spent in
this category, you know, being, told for the
514
00:31:23,849 --> 00:31:29,529
better part of the decade that I was wrong
about my product vision, ultimately to more
515
00:31:29,529 --> 00:31:34,829
recently be be proven right in a pretty big way
across a couple of different businesses now.
516
00:31:34,970 --> 00:31:41,204
And and, really, the motivation is to win the
category now, and neither of us are gonna stop
517
00:31:41,345 --> 00:31:42,964
until that ultimately happens.
518
00:31:43,025 --> 00:31:43,184
Yeah.
519
00:31:43,184 --> 00:31:46,704
I think it's very common for a first time
entrepreneur to focus on money, second time
520
00:31:46,704 --> 00:31:48,384
entrepreneur on building something really big.
521
00:31:48,384 --> 00:31:49,585
Well, I think it's evident.
522
00:31:49,585 --> 00:31:52,784
We're all all 3 of us are sitting in our
office, on Saturday.
523
00:31:52,784 --> 00:31:54,244
I know Jake, you came from training.
524
00:31:54,670 --> 00:31:56,029
Joey's in his HQ.
525
00:31:56,029 --> 00:31:58,670
I'm in my office at One World in New York.
526
00:31:58,670 --> 00:32:00,910
So I I think we're we're we're 3 of a kind.
527
00:32:00,910 --> 00:32:03,630
It's been an absolute honor and pleasure to
talk to you guys.
528
00:32:03,630 --> 00:32:05,789
Jake, I know you're training 16 hours a day.
529
00:32:05,789 --> 00:32:09,394
I really appreciate you jumping out of training
to jump on a call.
530
00:32:09,394 --> 00:32:11,894
And, of course, Joey, you're you're the best.
531
00:32:12,275 --> 00:32:16,695
I'm looking forward I'm inviting myself to the
December 15th fight, so I'm looking forward to
532
00:32:16,755 --> 00:32:18,275
seeing both of you guys there.
533
00:32:18,275 --> 00:32:19,315
Thanks for having us.
534
00:32:19,555 --> 00:32:22,350
We'll get the ticket set up, and I'll see you
in Orlando.
535
00:32:22,350 --> 00:32:22,430
Yeah.
536
00:32:22,430 --> 00:32:22,670
No.
537
00:32:22,670 --> 00:32:24,190
We we got your tickets, man.
538
00:32:24,190 --> 00:32:24,670
Alright.
539
00:32:24,670 --> 00:32:25,390
Thanks, David.
540
00:32:25,390 --> 00:32:26,029
Take care.
541
00:32:26,029 --> 00:32:26,190
Bye.
542
00:32:26,190 --> 00:32:26,509
Bye.
543
00:32:26,509 --> 00:32:27,570
Thank you for listening.
544
00:32:27,752 --> 00:32:32,553
The 10X Capital podcast now receives more than
a 170,000 downloads per month.
545
00:32:32,553 --> 00:32:35,692
If you are interested in sponsoring, please
email me at david@10xcapital.com.
