Ep 80 - Chastity, Modesty, and the Dangers of Porn with Jason Evert

Jason (00:00.214)
Yep, had that happen.

The Manly Catholic (00:00.951)
But yeah, oh yeah. So you have, you said about 30 minutes, correct? Just wanna, okay, excellent. So I know when I first reached out, I know you've doing a lot more transition on like the transgender, LGBT and stuff, but I thought we'd kind of focus on chastity, kind of difference between chastity and prudence, especially as men. I know you've talked a lot, I've listened to a lot of your recent stuff kind of about the importance of modesty and it's not just about clothing, but it's also important for men to be modest and what that entails as far as.

Jason (00:05.003)
Yeah.

Jason (00:17.837)
Okay.

Jason (00:27.586)
Yeah.

The Manly Catholic (00:30.443)
you know, difference between men and women with that. And yeah, if we have time, I mean, I know we only have 30 minutes, but we can always dive into, you know, how that affects, you know, pornography and, you know, masturbation and the dangers of that too with men, so. Perfect, awesome. Well, let's get it going. Let me just make sure everything's good on my end. Okay, let's do this.

Jason (00:32.554)
Yeah.

Jason (00:42.336)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Okay. Sounds good.

The Manly Catholic (00:56.355)
Hello all, welcome to another episode of the Manly Catholic. This is James, your host, and with me, a very special guest we have with you all here, Jason Everett. Jason, thank you so much for joining us and welcome to the podcast. Yes, absolutely. I'm sure for those of you listening, you have heard of Jason, but for those of you who have not, maybe Jason, just give our audience a brief background on the work you do, the tremendous work that you're doing nowadays, and kind of just a bit of background on yourself.

Jason (01:08.327)
Happy to be on, thanks for having me.

Jason (01:23.438)
Yeah, so for the past 25 years or so, I've been traveling around the world doing talks on God's plan for human love, sexuality, chastity, predominantly high schools, public schools, as well as catholic universities. And then we run the website chastity.com and publish different resources and books. I'm breaking free from pornography on the gender question, on chastity, healing from sexual abuse, how to find your soulmate without losing your soul, all these types of content.

particularly for singles, and then also helping parents and married couples to live out their own vocation to pass on that message to their kids.

The Manly Catholic (02:01.315)
Well, I've heard of you and I've heard you talk so many times and you do tremendous work. I know you've impacted thousands of lives. So thank you first and foremost for the work that you do. I know it is impacting a lot of lives. So we appreciate it. But just Jason, I guess we'll start with kind of the basics. So what exactly is chastity and why is it important not only for being single, but also for married couples as well?

Jason (02:24.586)
Yeah, a lot of people hear the word chastity and kind of cringe, you know, is that Victorian prudish idea towards human sexuality, or they confuse it with celibacy, which is the state of not being married, or they confuse it with abstinence, which is just the absence of sex. Chastity is a fuller concept, more closely synonymous with purity, purity of heart, purity of intention, that it encompasses, you know, as a virtue.

It's kind of like courage or honesty, but a virtue that applies to our sexuality. And so it doesn't eliminate sexual desire. It orders our desires according to the demands of authentic human love. And so the function of chastity or purity of heart is to free you to love, because if I can't say no to my sexual impulses and saying yes to them really kind of means nothing, but then it also frees you to know if you're authentically being loved.

because for example, if you got some single girl and a guy won't date her unless she's willing to give him certain sexual favors, then she sees pretty quickly, okay, this guy doesn't really love me. He just kind of loves himself. He just loves the pleasure he's trying to extract from me. And so it's a virtue that guards love, that makes love possible. And so obviously this is something that ends in marriage.

it's something that we should all practice according to our own state in life. And so a married husband, you know, I mean, I need to practice chastity in my own respect. And that could mean many things of not looking at pornography online, but even the reverence with which you treat your own spouse, having reverence for God's gift of sexuality in the bedroom, planning your own family, having custody of your eyes and your heart. And so it's a virtue that doesn't...

stifle love, it's a virtue that makes love possible. Because I think women are really pretty in tune with how they're being looked at, even from 100 yards away. I think a woman can probably detect, does this guy look at me as a collection of body parts or as a respected human being? And so there's a lot of power in the way a woman presents her body to a man. I think there's a lot of power in the way that a man looks upon a woman.

And so chastity ultimately is that virtue that frees us to love through purity of heart.

The Manly Catholic (04:38.647)
That's beautiful. And I think to the huge misconception, which you kind of touched on at the beginning is people feel like chastity is so restricting for people and in truth, I mean, like everything that the church teaches, it's actually the exact opposite. Like you mentioned, is that having chastity actually frees you to do so much more within the true and proper order of our sexuality as men and women. And I want to kind of throw back to you, I guess, chastity and purity, is there a difference? Or are they pretty much in line with

Jason (04:50.743)
Yeah.

Jason (05:06.431)
Mm-hmm.

The Manly Catholic (05:08.111)
of what we're ultimately aiming for in virtue, but is there a subtle difference between those two?

Jason (05:13.322)
Yeah, I mean, they're very similar terms. I mean, purity in a sense could be broader, you know, in a sense that word means undiluted. And so purity could even grow beyond just human sexuality. Do I have purity of intention with why I'm doing this particular act?

whereas chastity tends to really zero in on human sexuality. But obviously that virtue, as I mentioned, chastity is something that priests need to practice, married couples, singles, and likewise, purity. This is a commonality. It's something that doesn't end in marriage. I mean, if you think purity ends in marriage, then I mean, you'd have a pretty broken marriage of just like, okay, I'm married. I don't need to be pure anymore.

But this is what challenge for people, okay, well, what does pure sexual desire look like? You know, is it possible to purely desire my wife? Is it possible to have, and this is why it's so important because what this brings to the surface is that sexual desire is not the same thing as lust. That lust is the reduction of a human person to their sexual value. Whereas sexual desire is an urge that we feel, but then the question is, okay, do I master that urge or does that urge master me?

One of us is going to be in the driver's seat. It's either my passions or me. And yeah, chastity does, in a sense, restrict freedom. If my understanding of freedom is just licensed, kind of just do whatever I want. And in that sense, well yeah, marriage restricts your freedom too. You know, marriage restricts my freedom to be with the other four billion women on the planet. But do I have the power to restrict my freedom, in a sense, to do what's noble, to do something greater? John Paul II said, freedom exists for the sake of love.

it exists for the sake of being given away. And if I put freedom in a sense, in the sense of license as the highest good, then it doesn't really reach perfection. It becomes worshiped for its own thing. Like I'm just free to do whatever I want. I can be with this woman, I can be with that woman. And in the end, it just leads to egoism, of selfishness, of just self-absorption. I'm basically free to be enslaved by my own selfishness. And that isn't freedom, it's the opposite of it.

The Manly Catholic (07:12.92)
Hmm.

Yeah, I think too you mentioned either here or on something else you talked about is modesty. You know, the importance of modesty and the... As a culture, we've reduced it to clothing. I know you've talked about too, well, if it's just clothing then as a man, like what exactly can we put on that would be considered, you know, immodest? You know, there's really not anything that maybe we can think about the top of our head, but it's always kind of directed towards women, which is totally...

Jason (07:29.548)
Mm-hmm.

Jason (07:35.456)
Yeah.

Jason (07:43.468)
Yep.

The Manly Catholic (07:44.535)
the opposite of what it's actually meant for. So maybe touch on for men, how can we be modest and expand that too, besides why just clothing is the total wrong way of thinking of modesty and why it's so important as men to be modest as well.

Jason (07:57.658)
Yeah, it's interesting when you look at the biblical concept of modesty, it's talking about not going overboard in terms of braiding your hair and jewelry and vanity. It's more in that respect. And obviously it encompasses taking on this attitude that isn't, well, am I my brother's keeper? I mean, if the way I dress makes, you know, him tempted, well, that's his problem, not my problem. Modesty challenges that.

Modesty challenge is like, okay, in a sense, I am my sister's keeper. I am my brother's keeper I do have a responsibility towards other people to help them to authentically love and the reason why women are so allergic to this is

because it's always just put on them. Well, it's your body. I mean, you were wearing that outfit. You were kind of asking for it. You know, you're the adulteress. You're the one caught in the occasion of sin. Like, you're the one who made this whole thing happen. I mean, you look at the woman caught in the act of adultery. Where's the guy? He's like nowhere around. Like, they're stoner. I'm pretty sure there was another party involved there. He's nowhere around. And so because of centuries and millennia of the woman's body being the problem, we're evading the real issue that...

technically, strictly speaking, you can't cause somebody to sin. You can tempt them to sin, you can kind of lead them in the direction of sin, but if you're actually causing someone to sin, then they don't even have free agency. They don't even have the capacity to choose because you're forcing them to do this. But the reality is, if you're driving down the street and you see a prostitute who's dressed in a way that she's inviting business, is she causing you to sin? Can't you look at that and feel a sense of pity for your sister in humanity?

that she's selling her body, that she's feeling the need to make a profession in this way. Can't the proper response to that much body being shown be one of sorrow towards her instead of just lust? And I wish I could use that. And so the purpose of the virtues is to help you to not only choose the good, but to desire the good. And so what modesty does, it's an unspoken invitation to love. It's basically announcing to the world that

My body is not the greatest thing I have to offer. It's kind of opening in a way towards love. And so men need to practice this, not just in like, okay, as my outfit to revealing, which is something a lot of guys don't think about, but it could be a source of temptation for women. But how about the way I'm dancing? How about my conversation? How about the modesty of my intentions of going out with this girl in the first place? Like, why am I asking her on a date in the first place? Is it because I'm hoping something's gonna happen at the end of the date, or I'm gonna be able to do this or that with her? Hey, maybe the in-

The Manly Catholic (10:10.794)
Sure.

Jason (10:26.896)
immodesty of your intentions are far more immodest than any outfit that she could put on. And so this isn't about just giving women a pass. Okay, well then you can just do whatever you want. It's like, no, like, are we in this together or are we not? Like let's both try to raise up the bar through the modesty of my intentions, the modesty of our outfits, the modesty of our behavior. Why?

The Manly Catholic (10:48.183)
Yeah, and it is bizarre where you know, you mentioned too, well, you know, women dress a certain way and something ends up happening. And it's like, well, you're kind of asking for it. And it totally like you said, it totally takes the initiative out of the man's position. Basically, it's like, well, what about his sin? What about his actions? And we kind of forget about that. So whether, you know, he was tempted in an extreme way or not, it doesn't really matter because at the end of the day, we are in control of our actions. And like you said, you know, from

Jason (11:06.943)
Mm-hmm.

The Manly Catholic (11:18.443)
It all goes back to the garden as Adam. What was the first thing he did? Well, he blamed Eve and what did Eve do while she blamed the serpent, right? And so that's just I love how you kind of you kind of eliminate that. It's like, no, like what are your intentions? What's going on in your heart? Because we all struggle with certain things and how do we then deal with our own sin? That way we can love our brothers and sisters like they're meant to be loved.

Jason (11:23.286)
Yeah.

Jason (11:32.31)
Yeah.

Jason (11:37.396)
Yeah.

Jason (11:40.726)
And Adam even blames God. It's like the woman you put here with me. I mean, she gave it to me and you gave her to me, so it's kind of both at your fault. I'm kind of out of here. Nice try. I mean, we've been doing that for a real long time. But you know, one analogy I often give is like, what is the cause of robbery? Is the cause of robbery the presence of jewelry in the window of the store or the presence of greed in the heart of the robber?

The Manly Catholic (11:42.723)
Yeah, that's right. That's right.

Jason (12:05.218)
Greed caused the robbery, the jewelry did not. And so in the same respect, the ultimate cause of lust isn't the human body. The ultimate cause of lust is the human heart. Now, but again, you need to come back, but this is not simply a pass. Oh good, well then just dress however the heck you want. We've got to realize that we live in a fallen world, that people are tempted, and so women do have a moral obligation, as do men, to dress in a way that does not create a stumbling block.

to others who may be wrestling with this virtue. It's just like, okay, if there's a weakness there, like St. Paul said, look, if eating meat is gonna cause my brother to stumble, then I won't eat meat. It's not because it's bad to eat meat, but it's just, hey, there's that sense of fraternal love, of solidarity on this path towards salvation. And so, but granted, some outfits are objectively like, hey, you don't need to be wearing that stuff in public. It's objectively kind of out of bounds. It's more private attire between you and your spouse, but.

You know, with the way that civilization has crumbled, it's like, wow, people are wearing stuff to mass. That's just like, whoa, what's going on? The sense of comportment, of reverence, of all this has kind of been lost. And so I think we've got to up our game in the way that we dress, in the way that we treat one another to create more of a civilization.

The Manly Catholic (13:05.795)
Gosh.

The Manly Catholic (13:19.187)
Absolutely. And I love how that that's what always comes back to, you know, is how do we love the other person and so often we forget, you know, even just our own sins like well, and it's all kind of leading to our next topic. But even you know, if I'm sitting, you know, privately, quote unquote, who am I harming? You know, and so we've talked about and touched on lust a couple times. And that naturally leads into, you know, pornography. And I know you've done a lot of work in the pornography and the dangers of that, especially for men, but women too, of course.

But I guess maybe touch on just real briefly is why is pornography so harmful? We'll talk about this specifically for men and why is it such a temptation nowadays, especially for men?

Jason (14:01.834)
Yeah, I mean, it's hard to begin with this idea, oh, pornography doesn't really hurt anybody. It's like, it's hard to think of a statement that's more false. Okay, like the woman behind the camera, she's not harmed by this. Like I've met the women who've left that industry. I've talked to them. You know, I remember here in one of Lonewood, she said she quit the industry after her fourth abortion.

She just couldn't, her heart couldn't take it anymore. I know of another one that the filming of that particular scene took so long and was so brutal, by the time it was finished, she had to be hospitalized. But the porn producer was such a jerk, he wouldn't even take her to the hospital himself. He just called an Uber to bring her to the ER after this whole thing. Like, and if you knew these things, as like a porn consumer, of just like, okay, the scene I'm watching right now, a child is being conceived that will be dismembered in an ab-

abortion clinic four weeks after it was produced. How much joy could you really get from watching that one be degraded? I mean, to know that, wow, this human being who's being degraded in this way was molested when she was a 12-year-old girl, and now she's addicted alcohol to kind of cope with the trauma, and she's, like, if you saw the full picture, that's why John Paul is often paraphrased as having said that the problem with porn is not that it shows too much, but that it shows too little.

because if we actually showed the full woman, not just the body part, the full woman, porn industry would implode overnight. And so it exists because it has such a narrow view of the human body, of the person, just poop, the body, the sexual value, that's it. As long as we reduce her to that, and we don't look at all this other stuff going on in her life, we can continue, and she can continue to profit financially off of this. So I mean, she's harmed, the kids that exposed to this junk get harmed.

The Manly Catholic (15:15.8)
Hmm.

Jason (15:44.438)
The college students who don't even know how to look at a woman except through the lens of lust are harmed. And then when you get married and you try to love your wife and all you know how to do is to use another person as an outlet for what you think of your sexual needs, she's hurt, you're hurt, because you don't even know how to love your own bride. Like everybody's hurt. And so, I mean, there's, but they say, you know, if you want a lie to be believed, just say it enough and then people will just start believing it. And so this idea that nobody's hurt.

is nonsense. I mean, the guy is actually robbing himself of the joy of being captivated by his own bride because he's training his brain to associate sexual joy with dirty, illicit, forbidden sexual fantasies that are different every 30 seconds. Okay, your wife's none of that. She's not dirty. She's not illicit. She's not forbidden. She's not a fantasy. She's real. She's not a different woman every 30 seconds. Okay, now how do I retrain my brain to associate

basically the opposite of what porn is. I'll figure that out in marriage. Good luck with that. I mean, I know a friend who got married, hooked on porn, his marriage is over in three months, divorced. And I get emails every week from wives wrestling with this. They're so fed up from their husband promising to get better, or who kind of writes it off, well, I'm not actually cheating on you. And their marriage is decimated. And it's like, do you want to be that guy? He was like some 35 year old,

The Manly Catholic (16:52.291)
Hmm

The Manly Catholic (17:05.343)
Hmm

The Manly Catholic (17:10.379)
Hmm.

Jason (17:10.418)
addict who's got to slap his laptop shut when his five-year-old girl comes to the room because she can't see what Dad's seeing. Is that the guy I really want to be? Is that like that long-term goal? Nobody. And so we've got to realize defeat is not an option here. We've got to fight manfully against this stuff and to try to abolish this so that love can be what it's supposed to be.

The Manly Catholic (17:32.507)
I mean just hearing those stories that you're mentioning. It's just so sad and I know I've heard you talk about too is The importance of like having your five-year-old come in like hey daddy I want to look up, you know an image or something and you're you should not hesitate like oh no I have to you know, check my phone or something. It's like, oh, no. Yeah here Here you go Like I have nothing to hide from you and things like that So we need to be those men who are able to with their children come and ask for something like we have nothing to hide We have nothing to you know, delete off our phone before they come in

Jason (17:49.482)
Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Jason (18:01.414)
Yeah, and a good mental exercise. I don't know where my cell phone, I don't even know where it is right now. But if I, it's got that screen mirroring thing where I can just hit it and then boom, it shows up on the TV in the living room. I should just pretend like it's always on. That it's just like, anytime I've got, you know, phone, just pretend it's on screen mirroring. And that anything I'm looking at social media, anything that's coming in, like, that could be seen by all eight of my kids walking through the living room.

The Manly Catholic (18:02.19)
and talk to us about it.

The Manly Catholic (18:07.255)
That's good, Jason.

The Manly Catholic (18:15.863)
Mm-hmm.

Oh, that's smart.

Jason (18:29.866)
Oh look, there's dad's phone. Like I said, the ease with which we hand it over and obviously supervising what they're exposing themselves to on our phones. It's not like, oh, here's my phone, go play in your room for a few hours. Yeah, I know you're not saying that. But just yeah, that transparency. And if you've got that with your kids, it's a lot easier to ask from it, from your kids. Because if the kid's like, hey dad, can I see your phone? Here. Then you're like, hey, 17 year old son, can I see your phone? Here.

The Manly Catholic (18:36.943)
course. Right? Yeah, for sure.

Jason (18:55.506)
It's not like, why? Closed, closed, all these windows. Oh, here you go, Dad. No, like we gotta set the tone for transparency instead of expecting it from them, but then not giving it ourselves.

The Manly Catholic (18:55.983)
Hmm.

The Manly Catholic (19:06.283)
100%. You know, and going back to the pornography, I know men are more visual creatures than women, but I remember Father Dom, he, I forget where he heard this, but there was some study going on, and basically men were looking at women who were very modestly dressed, you know, dresses from head to toe pretty much covered up, and then the difference between women who were maybe like in a bikini or more revealing clothing, and they did imaging on their brains, and basically the women who were very modestly.

Jason (19:29.805)
Yeah.

The Manly Catholic (19:36.107)
modus modusly dressed, the parts of the brain that lit up in the men's brains were more of the like protective and sacred is something to honor and cherish. And again, the opposite more scantily cloud limit, it was basically the part of the brain that lit up is when men use tools. So when they're working on a project and things like that, so just going back to the pornography thing, when you're constantly looking at this, the stuff your brain is always there's only one part of your brain that's really being lit up.

Jason (19:45.824)
Mm-hmm.

Jason (19:53.651)
Yeah.

The Manly Catholic (20:03.883)
And then like you just mentioned, you know, you get married, it's almost like, well, marriage is just going to fix this pornography issue. Of course, it's not. It's just going to reveal its ugly head. And then like you mentioned, the unrealistic expectations that you then place on your bride. I mean, it only can happen that it's going to poison your brain and then have these unrealistic expectations, which again, which we keep coming back to is how do we love this bride, this woman in front of us, which I know John Paul always says the dignity of every man is.

Jason (20:04.171)
Yeah.

Jason (20:09.239)
Yep.

Jason (20:12.823)
Now.

Jason (20:17.869)
Yeah.

Jason (20:22.007)
Yeah.

The Manly Catholic (20:32.791)
Wait, no, how was this quote? The dignity of every, yeah, you know what I mean. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So, I mean, coming back to John Paul, I mean, just to love the other person, especially women is something to be protective of and to cherish, I think is something in society I think is just lost on most men, especially young men nowadays.

Jason (20:35.982)
God is assigned, yeah. Yeah, God is assigned as a test to every man, the dignity of every woman, yeah.

Jason (20:55.754)
Yeah, it is. You know, and I did an interview yesterday that's gonna air on our podcast in about a week and a half with an evangelical counselor named Jay Stringer. He wrote a book called Unwanted, and it talks about how our unwanted sexual desires and behaviors are actually a roadmap to our healing. And it was a really profound thing. And he talked about how, as a Protestant, he went through seminary, and in order to graduate seminary, you had to have 40 hours of psychotherapy.

The Manly Catholic (21:15.288)
Mmm.

Jason (21:24.086)
before you even got through. Because the last thing they wanted is people vicariously converting and healing other people without even facing their own demons. And through this, he ended up doing some research on.

The Manly Catholic (21:24.748)
Wow.

Jason (21:35.338)
the genres of pornography that people were consuming, what that was revealing about their unmet emotional needs and traumas. And it was really mind-blowing stuff that he was talking about. For example, guys like going after the pornography of these younger girls, and what the profile, that template of that person's childhood was often like, of the authoritarian father.

and just feeling like less of a man and needing to be in control over the woman and like this fascinating stuff and even why the women were consuming.

violent pornography who had often themselves been the subject of sexual abuse and that they were Eroticizing their trauma and trying to process it that way and it was really fascinating where he was just talking about that Like is this you know young boy living in a home where it's really disconnected lacking affirmation lacking just healthy touch and a sense of belonging and connection and then all of a sudden you see this porn and this woman's just

Gazing into your soul and she desires you and she makes you feel manly just for a moment and how you're sucked into this in this genre precisely because it's meeting this unmet need and so if all we're doing is trying to do lust management and Trying to like strategize ourselves out of this with just filters and accountability and white-knuckling it But we're not really going to these unmet psychological needs of like what's fueling this addiction

because it's like, man, I've been trying this, trying this, trying this. Like, okay, maybe you need to have a little bit more compassion on yourself of what's your story, of like, what do your cravings say about you? Not that you're like this horrible human being, but maybe there's some stuff there that needs to get dealt with.

And until that's really dealt with, this thing is just gonna keep rearing its ugly head. And so I think there's a lot of guys that realize, look, you don't need to tell me porn's bad. You don't need to tell me it's shameful and it's degrading to women like I've heard it, I've heard it, I've heard it, but I'm still going back to it tomorrow when I'm bored and lonely and angry and stressed and tired because it's a false companion to me. It's meeting something that wasn't met.

in these early stages of development. But until we're ready to go into these roots and face that, it's gonna be like just cutting the leaves off of a weed, wait two weeks, just, right, come on back. And so I encourage people who've been through this, struggling with this addiction, like find a good counselor who knows what the heck they're talking about that aren't just gonna give you sin management strategies, but can kind of get to the root of the fuel of some of these addictions.

The Manly Catholic (24:08.227)
Yeah, just that is so important because I think a lot of men and women who struggle this to there's just so much shame attached to exactly what you said, I feel like now most men and women know like how like how bad porn is for them. But again, the same things like well, okay, I understand that I know in my head, this is what's going on. But again, I just can't stop. So am I you know, am I a stupid person do like what's wrong with me kind of thing instead of seeking that outside help versus

Jason (24:28.972)
Yeah.

The Manly Catholic (24:36.759)
Like you said, a lot of these problems, you know, sin reveals so much about us. And a lot of it, we can't just white knuckle through it. Like you said, we can't do, you know, a program for 30 days and yeah, maybe we got a little bit better, but because there's this underlying subconscious thing that our brain is trying to work through, maybe there's trauma or something else that goes on. I think that is so important for those who are struggling to seek that outside help. And that's why, you know, organizations like you guys, what you guys are doing is, is providing so many resources for men and women out there.

And I think that's such an important thing for people to hear out there is there's no shame in admitting that you struggle with something and then seeking the help that you need.

Jason (25:12.626)
And you hit on the nail on the head, it was like, it's an identity thing. Like, am I stupid? And it's like, am I a failure? Am I just weak? Am I just undesirable? Like, maybe that's who I am. And so when I go back to the porn, it's not just what I do, it's who I am. Like, I'm the failure, I'm the hypocrite, I'm the this, and you're just kind of marinating in this false identity. And I heard a priest once say that, you know, God.

The Manly Catholic (25:16.888)
Yeah.

Jason (25:37.838)
knows your sins but he calls you by your name, the devil knows your name but he calls you by your sins. And so after the fall, the devil is the accuser. I mean, before we sin, you know, the Holy Spirit's convicting us of sin so we don't do that. But, and the devil before sin is the comforter. Oh, it's happened before, you've been such a good boy, you deserve a little bit outlet. It's not like this is gonna be the end of the world. You're not really hurting, he's really comforting the devil before sin. But then after the sin, the roles are reversed.

The Manly Catholic (25:42.159)
Hmm.

Jason (26:06.634)
where the Holy Spirit tries to comfort us to lead us towards conversion, whereas the devil becomes the accuser, which is what he is, of just like, wow, you think God loves you now, you think you're useful to God in the church, you're doing this on the side, you're being that on Sunday, you are such, like, and he just rubs your nose in that. And so you gotta be real mindful, what's the voice I'm hearing right now? Is this really God shaming me?

Or is the devil wanting me to identify with my brokenness instead of looking to the one who can heal me?

The Manly Catholic (26:37.699)
I love that quote. Can you repeat that? The devil is the one who knows your name but calls you out by your sin and Jesus is the one who knows your sins but calls you out by your name. Yeah.

Jason (26:46.229)
Yeah, so God knows your sins but calls you by your name. The devil knows your name but he calls you by your sins.

The Manly Catholic (26:53.135)
Gosh, that's beautiful. I mean, it's just like the women who's caught in adultery, and Jesus called her and wrote whatever Jesus wrote on the sand and then, it's so powerful. Jesus is nothing but, I mean, that's the power of reconciliation, right? I grew up Protestant and going to confession. I talked with Father Lampert and I love this. He said, I always tell young people, going to confession is like throwing up. You never wanna do it.

Jason (27:07.251)
Mm-hmm.

The Manly Catholic (27:19.363)
But then when you go to reconciliation, you throw it all up, you feel a lot better after, but you don't wanna do it going forward because nobody wants to do that. So I love that. But Jason, I know you gotta get going, we're wrapping up here, but maybe just a final word of encouragement for the men out there, maybe who are struggling with this, and then you can tell people where they can find you and the work that you're doing.

Jason (27:21.13)
Feel a lot better afterwards.

Jason (27:26.483)
Yeah.

Jason (27:40.49)
Yeah, well, I mean, whether you're a man, woman, anybody struggling with this thing, just realize that sometimes God allows us to fall on our face 10,000 times so we can realize our utter dependency upon Him. And to not lose your peace after a fall. Because a lot of times we get so discouraged. I did it again, did it again, I'm just a failure. Like, okay, collect yourself, don't beat yourself up, and just come to be loved by the Father. Because sometimes God lets us stumble so we can realize that

This chastity thing is not about getting stronger and stronger and stronger. It's about realizing our weakness and realizing how utterly dependent we are upon the Father. Because when you start off in this Christian journey, it's like I can walk with Jesus, and then you kind of trip it up. Okay, well I can crawl with him. And then it gets to the point of like, okay, just carry me. I can't do this, I'm a weak man. And that's when we really start to ascend, I think, in the interior life, when you realize wow, so much of this depends upon him, not upon me.

because of it, and obviously, yes, your will, your participation is needed, and God wants you to test your limits, and you're gonna have to go through times of desolation and dryness, but then you gotta look, okay, am I going after false consolations to deal with this, or am I learning what real consolations look like of exercise and prayer and getting enough sleep, getting enough to eat, having enough companionship in my life, like limiting my screen time, like am I taking care of myself?

Or am I simply every time I get low, going back to what I did when I was 13 years old to deal with this? Like how can I grow in my effective maturity to be able to like pinpoint, okay, I'm bored, I'm lonely, I'm angry, I'm stressed, I'm tired. What can I do right now that's actually gonna resolve this instead of just creating new problems for me? And so.

If you find it hard to break free on your own, which everybody does, just make sure you're having that accountability. Find a good counselor. Don't try to go mano a mano against the devil, because he'll drag on this battle for so long and you'll see such little progress. So don't beat yourself up. Connect yourself with good guys and just know that the Father sees your victories because you have them. It isn't just got up and messed up again, messed up again. Oh, that's 12 mess ups last 15 minutes. Way to go, kid. It's like, you know, you got some victories mixed in there, too. And so he's with you in the trenches.

The Manly Catholic (29:52.78)
Right.

Jason (29:54.5)
and you're loved by the father, so just let yourself be loved instead of thinking you need to get perfect and then the father's going to love you.

The Manly Catholic (30:01.747)
Amen. 100%. And Jason, where can our audience find more about you or contact with you?

Jason (30:07.35)
Yeah, easiest place is chastity.com. And through there, they can connect with us on social media, on Instagram, on YouTube, our podcast, which is Lust is Boring. So all that, you just go to chastity.com and find all the resources that we've got there.

The Manly Catholic (30:21.391)
Excellent. Perfect. Well Jason, thank you so much for your time and for those I will leave a link in the show notes for You guys as well as well, but Jason. Thank you. Yeah

Jason (30:28.626)
Well, thank you. Thank you for having me on. And then we've got books specifically for guys too, like Pure Manhood, The Dating Blueprint, Forged, which is like a plan on breaking free from porn from all these different perspectives. So all that's in the resource section at chastity.com.

The Manly Catholic (30:33.291)
Oh, excellent.

The Manly Catholic (30:43.447)
Perfect, awesome. Well, Jason, thank you so much. God bless. And for all of these listening out there, go out there and be a saint. Thanks, Jason. Appreciate it.

Jason (30:53.574)
Awesome. Yeah, I hope it's a blessing for the listeners and thank you for having me on.