292. Healing Trauma and Finding Joy Through Sound Therapy: Dr. Binyamin Klempner

20230817 Binyamin Klempner

Kara Goodwin: [00:00:00] Hello, and welcome to the meditation conversation, the podcast to support your spiritual revolution. I'm your host, Kara Goodwin. And today I'm joined by Dr. Benyamin Klemper. Dr. Klemper likes to say there is no misfortune, only fortune misunderstood. To release grief and pain, he began experimenting with yoga, meditation, and sound healing, using instruments such as gongs, chimes, and bells to relieve his pain.

He also found that sounds fostered peace, love, friendship, and harmony within prison walls, as well as therapeute.[00:01:00] 

Therapeutic Method of Harmonic Effect Regulation Protocol, or HARP. I just love this connection with Dr. Binyamin. Klempner. He really just radiates such. 

He cares so deeply about healing himself his family and whoever he can reach 

He takes us through his fascinating story of how he discovered the healing benefits of sound Even though he's not a trained musician 

It really is beautiful how humanity is discovering more and more that there's medicine within things that have been right in front of us such as music 

 [00:02:00] Be sure to check out Ben yeoman's work@theharpmethod.com. 

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Feel great about your purchasing power and look great on top of all of that. Check out my sponsors link. Link. In the show notes and use code Kara K a R a. For 10% off your order. And now enjoy this episode So welcome, Dr. Klempner. I'm so happy to have you here.

Dr. Binyamin Klempner: Thank you so much for having [00:04:00] me here. I appreciate it. 

Kara Goodwin: yeah, my pleasure.let's start with a little bit about your journey and what led you to yoga meditation and sound healing.

Dr. Binyamin Klempner: Well, every time I tell the story, I tell it differently. it depends on the day, time of day, mood, But it really starts when I was, six years old and a few things happened.

My parents took me to, the nutcracker. And the sounds of, chaikovsky really, just did something to me. They were healing, and wow, this, was what I need just as a boy, as a six year old. Wow.

 wow, Tchaikovsky this, there's something I, a healing and I was six. my mind wasn't developed enough obviously to understand it, but I knew, wow, this is something my soul needs. there's coming home here. The sound. it was a coming home. Okay. Also when I was six, my parents took me to a rally against nuclear [00:05:00] arms in New York City, Central Park. And before that I just lived in the sort of idyllic world of a six year old.

I had a pretty good childhood, really no complaints. So I lived in this idyllic world of, as children should live in. And first it was a lot of fun, I had a blast. But after that Sunday afternoon, I was no longer living in an idyllic world. I was living in a world that could end at any 

moment. 

By... 

Kara Goodwin: that you chose to say that you had a blast at a

nuclear 

arms rally. 

Dr. Binyamin Klempner: Well... That was... Yeah...

Kara Goodwin: Heh

Dr. Binyamin Klempner: Yeah... 

So... 

Kara Goodwin: Noted. 

Dr. Binyamin Klempner: right, right. right. I guess it was a Freudian,

Kara Goodwin: heh. Yeah, right.

Dr. Binyamin Klempner: but, but it was a lot of fun because, people were out there and [00:06:00] had, signs and protest signs are so artistic. Many of them, they're really an art form in and of themselves. there, there should be a museum of just protest signs, 

Kara Goodwin: Yeah. 

Dr. Binyamin Klempner: Cause there's, some of them are so creative and so brilliant and ingenious that they're, People should collect them and somebody should make a museum out of 

protest signs. 

Kara Goodwin: I love that idea! That's awesome. Is

Dr. Binyamin Klempner: my world changed because after that, because as much fun as the rally was, when I got home, it began sinking in. That, whoa, like, what was this rally about? Yes, it was fun, but what was it about? It was about this concept that the world could end at any moment. Because of some men in some office in some places in the world that don't know me, and maybe don't care about me. for [00:07:00] me, even though I was only six, was really a turning point. And it was, it really, it indicated in my mind and soul, heart, that something needed to give, something needed to change. And then a few years went by.

And, I can't say my parents are really so into music, but my mom when I was 11, she started getting me into The Beatles and into The Who. And, from there, I got into Jefferson Airplane and, the song, what's it called, But anyway, it was, these are songs

 so I, this music spoke a message that I needed to hear, especially Joan Baez, Joni Mitchell, Crosby, Stills, and Nash, Linda Ronstadt, Bob Dylan, obviously, and.

Simon and Garfunkel. So these sounds were sounds that I needed. Then I got into The Grateful Dead and The Grateful Dead has just a lot of, [00:08:00] just a cosmic sounds but what I really enjoyed about The Grateful Dead was the drumming. it was really their percussionist, Mickey Hart, and their drummer, Bill Kratzman, and they would essentially make a drum circle and use all sorts of rhythm and beat and percussion sounds to create something that, that was just amazing.

And a few things I noted, and I wrote a lot about this in my doctoral dissertation, that when I was at Dead shows on psychedelic substances or even on cannabis. And I was, and I went totally, in a sober state. It made very little difference. It made very little difference because the sound, the beats, the rhythms, once you get into them and you start moving your body, and you're moving your [00:09:00] body in sync with the frequencies, the vibrations, and so it's not really you're moving your body. that just occurred to me just now. You're not moving your body. The sounds are moving your body. You are just allowing your body. You're giving your body permission to move with the sounds, with the frequencies, with the rhythms. And then of course, it's not just your. Your, body that's moving, meaning like, your arms and legs, right? It's your cells that are dancing also, your molecules, and even down to the atomic level. your,protons and neutrons are,are in sync with your rhythms. Yeah, vibrating and flowing in sync with the rhythm and there was a real healing that would occur and I didn't quite, get it until years later. like just now skipping like 30 years. I have a son who has paranoid [00:10:00] schizophrenia. And I got into my mind that, I'm going to experiment with sound because we were trying all sorts of things, like.

tinted glasses with certain types of tints and different, strains of cannabis and just whatever we could think of. we were trying to help him. and I got into my mind, well, I'm going to order from Amazon. a steel tongue drum because they're very melodic and very easy to play.

And I'm not a musician and I don't, know how to read music and I'm not going to learn an instrument that, takes a long time to learn when I need something that I can learn in five minutes so that I can help him right away. So I got this steel tongue drum and started playing it and it really calmed me down. Because it was nerve wracking having a child in the house who, is suffering from paranoid schizophrenia. [00:11:00] And then I have younger children and who are afraid. And it was really in a very unenviable dynamic. And I just felt so mindful just with one knock on this, steel tongue drum. it was like instant. Meditation just, it brought me to a state just almost instantaneously where I could relax. I could focus my mind. I could feel respite even in a storm of craziness, of chaos. And at around the same time, I had gone to University of Montana in Missoula.

And while I was there, I spent a lot of time with, the Blackfeet Indian Nation. and wanted to reconnect to that time in my life. And I wasn't sure how to do it, but I figured I'll do it through sound. There are certain sounds, the sounds of the native flute, the sound of the native drum, in the West, they call it the shamanic drum. Right. But it's [00:12:00] a native drum. And that just brought me to a place where I needed to be, even though that's not the geographic place I was in, but it brought me yes, a meditative place, but a very geographic meditative place. That was very different from the geographic place I was in.

So it was like, it just, it traveled me. It just, it relocated me, brought me. meditation in the place where those sounds originate, which is the place I needed to be. from there just fell in love with the native flute and started purchasing them. My wife would say, promise me, you're not going to buy another flute, right?

And I said, promise, then, I would end up getting, It was an addiction, It was an addiction. But this was small. I didn't get another one that size. I got a small [00:13:00] one. 

It's totally different. It's 

much higher 

Kara Goodwin: Right. They're all different. 

Yes. Right. 

Dr. Binyamin Klempner: And from there, I started experimenting with some other instruments.

And I really didn't have much knowledge of the gong. I started experimenting with chimes. And, many different types of chimes, Koshi chimes, and each chime really brings you, gives you, I say gives you, it offers you a different meditative experience. when you play the Koshi chime, it it encompasses you in a meditative state. And so does, a Sofagio, chime, but it's a very different meditative state that you're encompassed by. I do yoga every day and I do pranayama every day, but the pranayama and, the yoga, the asanas Is very different from the meditation of the sound of [00:14:00] just the rhythmic movement

 of just.

sounding a gong. 

And so I was missing this one component, which was the gong. So I got a 19 inch gong. It's a small gong, a wind gong, a Wuhan wind gong. And it's lovely. It's a lovely instrument. It really is. But, if this is a wind gong that's 19 inches. Wow, what must a chow gong that's 22 inches sound like? So I got a 22 inch chow gong, also a Wuhan gong, and then I thought, wow, if this is what a Chinese gong Sounds like, hmm, wonder what, what an Italian, good gratis Sonora gang sounds like. and, not just sound, but I wonder what the meditative 

Kara Goodwin: The field. 

Dr. Binyamin Klempner: is like. Yeah. I wonder what the vibrations feel like as they leave the gong that this big metal [00:15:00] disc can enter, the sonic vibrations enter the body.

And 

how that 

Kara Goodwin: Well, that's one of the things that comes to me as I'm listening to you, even going back to the Grateful Dead experience where you were saying through that movement and through the music and whether you were on psychedelics or not, the experience is the same. And what I keep hearing as you're.

as you're talking about the different instruments and the flutes and the, and being transported through music to the Blackfeet, Indian reservation. That there are pathways that open up within us, and we all have these different pathways and they respond to sound, they respond sometimes to substances, they respond to meditation, to breath work there, and they're within us.

and as standard, especially for us older people, [00:16:00] maybe with younger people there, they come in more open, but, once they are opened and we can open them in that way, then when we come back to that. Practice that opened them. It's like our consciousness knows like, okay, here's this pathway and it's already opened.

And so we can like transport from a consciousness, like multi, multi layered, much happening beyond our conscious awareness. But the capability of these pathways to not only open up, but then to be utilized. To transport us or to, to connect us to higher frequencies, to help us stay in higher frequencies, to dissolve things and clear things out. And, it's really amazing and powerful. And, I just kept seeing like pathways as you were talking about this and like, almost like portals, 

Dr. Binyamin Klempner: Yeah. there's a, concept in Jewish mysticism. And I believe that it's an all, the mystic traditions, [00:17:00] the Hindu traditions, the Buddhist traditions, the Islamic traditions, the Christian traditions, the, transcends all traditions. it's, mainly in, in the mystical and the mystical realm of the traditions. And that is that we each have a song. We each have our own inner song and true healing comes about when we are able to hear and give voice. To that inner song, which is inside of us. modern science is really starting to align itself with ancient spiritual mysticism that our, nervous system has a sound and our, a big part of Nadi yoga.

Nadi Yoga is listening, yes, listening to outside, outside songs, The gong, certainly playing the gong is a very valid form of, Nadi Yoga. But, [00:18:00] a much higher form of Nadi Yoga is when we, And I think that's the appropriate word when we graduate from using outside instruments and are able to just Listen to that inner sound and of course, even within that there's levels of graduation, right? there's listening to you know, that gross, humming sound

that we sometimes hear in our right ear, especially when it's really quiet, right? And for. when you're just graduating off of a gong, so that's not at all a growth sound, that's a very subtle sound, then there's again, graduating from that where that itself becomes a growth sound, right?

To a more subtle 

sound within that 

sound. 

Kara Goodwin: refined, yes, layers

and where you're listening within, yeah, I know exactly [00:19:00] what you're talking about. As I've been in different mystical states and the layers of sound, it's like just, you can tune in based on like where you're listening, where is my attention inside?

Dr. Binyamin Klempner: of being inside, 

Kara Goodwin: And it 

changes what. You're hearing, and I'm doing quotes with my fingers because it's, it is a listening.

It's a hearing. It's a sound, but it's from inside. And for me, that can even start to sound like language that's too fast for me to even like, I can't comprehend it. I can't tell if it's snippets of English or a language that I don't speak or even non earthly language or whatever. But, and it's. It's funny because it's like, I know I can either listen to it and just absorb it, just get it, just hear it and not understand it, but just to experience it.

Or I can turn on the part of my brain that can [00:20:00] try to understand it and then I can't hear it anymore. It's

really fascinating. It's like, I can either have the experience or I can get my cognitive brain. Involved, but I cannot do both.

Dr. Binyamin Klempner: That's really 

Kara Goodwin: why I can't tell if it's English snippets of English or other languages or whatever.

Yeah.

Dr. Binyamin Klempner: Yeah, that's really, it's really interesting that you say that because, it's beyond understanding that not every question needs an answer. And it's just letting go of the answers, letting go of that need to understand because that need to understand, it's really the need to control. I think in our Western culture, we have a real strong need to control and part of control is understanding. Whereas I believe in a lot of Eastern cultures and I live in the Middle East. So I think even in the Middle East, There's culturally, hard science studied, but it's [00:21:00] not the be all end all.

It's this, at a certain point, we do what we can to understand the hard sciences, and then we let go. We just accept 

Kara Goodwin: Yeah. 

Dr. Binyamin Klempner: most everything we're not going to understand. I think a big part of meditation is that letting go. That letting go of the need to understand, the need to understand ourselves, the need to make sense of ourselves, of our spouses, of our children, of our situations, of our parents, of our siblings, of our aunts and uncles and neighbors and friends and colleagues, and just say, they are, who they are, and they are,

Kara Goodwin: that. 

Dr. Binyamin Klempner: and I

Kara Goodwin: that surrender. Yes. Yeah. The surrender and just the allowance. I love that because it is so often it's like we want to understand. It's almost like the punctuation mark on an experience when we can say it and then cognitively get some meaning [00:22:00] underneath it.

And the further along I go or the more experiences I have, the more there's this underlying understanding of my conscious mind, there is so much going on that my conscious mind can't, I can't mentally. Contain it and that's okay. I know that there's in intelligence coming in. There's a, there's intelligence being received, but it's not the mental intelligence or mental communication.

It will just become a part of me and then very subtly integrate and become a part of me in a way that it's not like, Oh, yesterday I didn't know this. And then I listened to these sounds and felt these experiences. And then now I can do this, or now I understand this, it's not so black and white.

It's just a, like a layered and gradual. So much beyond the mental acuity.[00:23:00] 

Dr. Binyamin Klempner: Yeah, 

it's just, yeah, it's beyond the mental acuity. And just, that's part of the adventure also. that it's beyond the mental acuity. if it was within the mental acuity, it wouldn't be an adventure. It wouldn't be much of a journey, right? right? It would be, where does the adventure start?

Where does the journey start? It starts on the other side Of the fence, that mental acuity that you mentioned, that's the fence, right? 

And when we.

Kara Goodwin: I love that. 

Dr. Binyamin Klempner: When we step beyond that fence, that's when the adventure begins. But in order to do that, we have to really be okay with not knowing, just giving up our grasp on not knowing. and I think that's one thing about the gong that I really like, that even with, Let's say a tuning fork, okay? It's tuned to a certain frequency and it might sound very nice. I enjoy If you're listening to the sound of a tuning fork or my solfagio chimes If I hit a solfagio chime, I know exactly the frequency it's [00:24:00] going to make. Depending on the mallet, I know exactly how it's going to sound, more or less. Especially a tuning fork. if you hit a tuning fork, you really know exactly the sound it's going to 

make. 

Kara Goodwin: Yeah. 

Dr. Binyamin Klempner: If you play the gong, you hit the gong. It's literally never going to make the same sound twice, you never know what sound it's going to make, and if you hit it in one spot, and then you hit it in another spot, it's not like, let's say,say a piano.

Okay, a piano. if you hit, if you play one key and then you play at a certain interval, another key and then you hit another key, you know what the outcome is going to be of all three keys being played during that time in that interval. That's how Music gets written and we know that if you play a piece of Bach, it's going to sound consistently like Bach. Right? [00:25:00] So you have like a musician like Yo Yo Ma who really allows the music to run through it. Right? So Yo Yo Ma is really the ultimate piece. maybe stepping out of the way, he's stepping out of the way. Bach is really being, he's really an empty conduit, right. That, or like, Joshua Bell, right. He's just like an empty conduit for the music. Right. and that's what makes them so great is that, not only are they great musicians, but they've transcended that musicianship.

To just being empty vessels, 

that are able to just allow, at a certain point, Joshua Bell is no longer Joshua Bell. He's, Johann Sebastian Bach, and same with Yo Yo Ma, right? and many others, but they're just the two that are coming to mind,

 and it's also different because,they went to the best academies, the, best, 

Kara Goodwin: Training

Dr. Binyamin Klempner: yeah, the best training.my, my three year old plays [00:26:00] the gong so lovely, just the one rule. Don't hit it too hard because then it's not going to make a nice sound, but that's the one rule, and don't touch it with your hands,

 And no matter where you hit it, it's going to sound differently. every time you play it. You have an idea based on the mallet of where you're trying to go, but it becomes like strategic improvisation. 

And it's really about just letting go and like releasing the sound.

Kara Goodwin: Yeah. Well, it's interesting that how it's received as well, because I've had experiences with people where somebody is playing a gong and there's a room full of people. And for some people, it's like they, I remember one of my friends, like almost had to leave.

 felt so anxious. and she's experiencing the same thing I'm experiencing and I'm feeling a cleansing, and for her, it probably was cleansing, but it was just an unfamiliar feeling of like, things are rising and I don't know what to do with [00:27:00] that.

Dr. Binyamin Klempner: And there's, it's difficult to release it just because, she doesn't really know what to do with it, but she can just feel this response, but it's the, this, yeah. 

Kara Goodwin: What, we, this alchemy that happens, that is individual,

Dr. Binyamin Klempner: Well, that's really interesting that you mentioned that because I was just reading this morning about Tibetan medicine. and it's really interesting, because as I was listening to you, Tell that story. I was just wondering about the facilitator of that gong bath

Kara Goodwin: Mm-hmm. 

Dr. Binyamin Klempner: and what their intentions were. what mallets they were using,what was their state of compassion for the people they were playing for? how tuned in was that person who was playing? And I'm, I'm not being accusatory. I'm, at least I'm not trying to, I'm just... like just scientifically, as a practitioner, just, pondering, where they were when they were playing, what state were they in?

How aware [00:28:00] were they of the people they were playing for? what I was reading this morning about Tibetan medicine just really struck a bell. It said, The premise of Tibetan medicine, and really all medicine, is compassion, 

Kara Goodwin: Mm-hmm.

Dr. Binyamin Klempner: that the practitioner needs to be compassionate, have compassion for the, patient.

And if there's no compassion, there can be no medicine. And where there's great compassion, there's great medicine. it really doesn't matter how much experience, in a sense, the practitioner has, what really matters in that way, and yes, it does matter, obviously it does matter, but what matters even more is the degree of compassion. obviously the practitioner needs to know the skills of the trade They're applying. Otherwise they're going to Do harm. But [00:29:00] once they have those skills, I think what, and based on what this article about Tibetan medicine was saying, once the practitioner has solid skills, the most important thing at that point becomes the degree of compassion they're able to have for the person they are treating.

Kara Goodwin: Oh, interesting. Yeah. Yeah. That, it's all connected, right? it's every person that was there lying, receiving a practitioner, the, everything, the gong itself, as you say, what different size. The gong is and how often, it was a pretty intense, like, one ring after another, after, and it builds and builds.

So that can lead to a pretty intense experience. 

Dr. Binyamin Klempner: very, but, it's so interesting. I was, I was playing the gong for a group of teenage girls who are at risk, just, acting out behaviors, acting out with [00:30:00] drugs, with sex, whichever way they could think of acting out.

 But it's coming from pain. Their school invited me to come and play for them. And the principal was sure that these girls were going to walk out after about two minutes. It wasn't going to be for them. And they all stayed. Actually, that's not true. A few girls left because again, it was, it just got to be too emotionally charged, the sounds, but then

Kara Goodwin: And this is just with the gong?

Dr. Binyamin Klempner: it was just the gong, but then after I finished playing and we were processing those girls who left came back 

Kara Goodwin: Mm hmm.

Dr. Binyamin Klempner: process and the principal of the school was just blown away. Like This doesn't happen. These girls don't do that. it's not cool. Like, what's happening? so, the second time that they invited me back, I Sort of I Before I began playing I said listen if any of you want to walk out at any time just Please like, don't feel like you need to stay 

just [00:31:00] 

Kara Goodwin: Mm

Dr. Binyamin Klempner: And one of the girls who was like the, like the spokesperson for the group Like they all looked up there, she said, well, why would we want to leave?

And I said, well, I understand, that, last time she left, it was very, the sound of the gang can be very emotionally provocative and demanding and challenging and it can be a rough sound. And I said, and it might bring up, memories and images that are hard to recall and to sit with. And this girl said to me, And what's wrong with having to sit with pain? 

Kara Goodwin: Oh, wow.

Dr. Binyamin Klempner: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Just knock me off my feet. It was so, good to hear that, and I think that's what the gang does. It allows us to sit to be comfortably with our pain and in a, space and with a sound that is yet comfortable. So I was doing a gong session once [00:32:00] for, for a fellow who was in a tank, a tank division of the army and he had a lot of trauma and The sound of the, the clanging, in German, they call it the, gang, I believe they, they call it a clang, right? It's a clang. It's a metal clanging, right?

Kara Goodwin: Mm 

Dr. Binyamin Klempner: And, it was very reminiscent of the sound of being inside of a tank. 

But yet it wasn't the sound of a tank, it was the sound of harmony and of beauty. So there's that very thin line, both metal sounds, both sounds of clanging metal, but one was the sound of death, the other was the sound, of life, of beauty.

Kara Goodwin: Mm hmm. 

Dr. Binyamin Klempner: And

Kara Goodwin: That's beautiful. Mm hmm.

Dr. Binyamin Klempner: living in Israel. I really love doing work that brings Israelis and [00:33:00] Arabs together.

Kara Goodwin: Mm 

Dr. Binyamin Klempner: another time I was playing, for, for an Arab fellow and he had been shot by a helicopter. And of course, the helicopter is full of sound, right? And the sound of that gong was very reminiscent to him. It brought him back to a place where he always tried to avoid. 

The place that internal memory, of that helicopter ship coming in and, firing, it's machine guns and it's, the sound of the chopper and yet a very similar sound, but a sound of healing, 

a sound of healing and, 

Kara Goodwin: beautiful. I'm

Dr. Binyamin Klempner: it really transcended boundaries because it was, the, it was,It was, yeah, it's just, well, what can I say? It was, a very beautiful experience, and, I have this theory that, so [00:34:00] there's a psychiatrist, you might've heard of him. He's a very well known Bessel van der Kolk.

 he's from the Netherlands. And, he's located in Boston. and he's done a lot of wonderful work. And he wrote a famous book called The Body Keeps the 

Score. 

And. 

Kara Goodwin: I do know 

Dr. Binyamin Klempner: Yeah. Okay. Sure. Sure. It's a very well known book. And so his, what he wants to argue is that every cell of our bodies made has a memory of the trauma that whatever trauma we incurred and through working specifically through yoga, asanas and, pranayama, Meditation that we're able to free those cells that are tense from the trauma were able to let them relax and free them from their sort of enslavement that was caused by the trauma. I want to say something similar that every traumatic experience we incur. And the same is [00:35:00] true of joyful experiences also, but every experience we incur traumatic and also joyful has. Retains its memory, well, it is associated with the sound, almost everything has a sound associated 

with it, 

Kara Goodwin: hmm. Mm 

Dr. Binyamin Klempner: and something that's traumatic, so we retain that sound in our memory bank, within our ear, and if something's joyful, we, we retain those sounds within our tympanic membranes, cellular memory 

bank, 

Kara Goodwin: Well, it all goes together, right? Cause it's all layered, all of our senses, because the same as with smell, we all have that experience where we have a specific smell and suddenly we're launched back to our grandmother's kitchen and we're four years old again, or, and obviously seeing something can trigger.

if it looks like something traumatic that we've experienced or something joyful, we immediately launch back [00:36:00] into that memory, our personal memory. So it's, we're so multi layered and sound absolutely fits into that. That layer too. and it's happening beyond our conscious awareness.

So I'd love to know how all of this fits into your harp method. Can you talk about the heart method?

Dr. Binyamin Klempner: sure, it works. Sure, so the HAARP method is based on, my experiences working with, prisoners, and there, is a, a park in Tel Aviv, Where all of the drug dealers hang out and the prostitutes and the Somalian refugees, bring their families there and, that's bizarre because you'll have Somalian refugees having a picnic next to, a few businessmen who got out of work and came to the park to, to get crack 

and they're all They're smoking their crack, and then, prostitutes who are walking around, and then you have like little kids [00:37:00] playing on the, seesaw,

Kara Goodwin: Yeah, wow. 

Dr. Binyamin Klempner: yeah. And a friend of mine who also has a training in social work, he said to me one day, let's go to this park with some of your instruments, bring some native American flutes, bring a gong, bring some Tibetan singing bowls and let's, just have fun. Let's just do our thing at this park, And I said, yeah, Let's, do it. And, so we went and we spent a long time there and a lot of the experience that I just got from there or in the prison. basically just using sound. And like I just said, we have all of these sound memories stored, not just in our mind but also on the cellular level Of our tympanic membrane. And again, this is just my theory. So it's not been scientifically tested, but I've seen the effective enough times to, believe that it's, a valid theory. And when we play certain sounds that are meditative and calming, relaxing [00:38:00] and healing, with compassion, so we. Allow the traumatic memories to arise, but in a way that's safe for the client to hold

Kara Goodwin: Mm 

Dr. Binyamin Klempner: and to look at and to examine. And not even to dismiss, but to integrate, to become stronger people, because what a shame to dismiss a traumatic memory, like that trauma is there for us to grow, and so when we play these sounds, the client is able to really Take memories that they might not have remembered for 20, 30 years and go to a better place in their own lives. 

Kara Goodwin: Yeah.

Dr. Binyamin Klempner: And not just remembering trauma. Also, sometimes a client remembers something really positive. I had a client who was Somalian and he never, recognized or remembered any happy memory of his childhood. He didn't think he had not one [00:39:00] happy memory from his childhood.

And I was playing the native flute, and he had a memory of sitting in his grandmother's neighborhood. And somebody nearby was playing the flute, and it was a relaxing day. And the sky was beautiful, and clear, and not too hot, not too cold, just a nice, comfortable day. And he must have been like eight years old, just lying on the grass, listening to the sound of this flute drift by.

And my playing the flute brought him to that place. 

At which point... 

We were able to process it and I was able to ask him, well, if you had one good memory that you now remember, not having remembered any other memories, maybe there's another memory another good memory that you could remember. And maybe, even if there's not a lot of good memories, maybe there's enough that you can start stringing them together like a necklace that you can start wearing, this [00:40:00] necklace of. And that for him was really, it was a turning point, I think for all of us, just, good memories is really good memories are important. We need them. And, so, often when I do my deep breathing, pranayama, I, I, Just tap into those good memories of my childhood and adolescence and sometimes just playing the gong, playing the gong just, is so that's really what harp is.

Harp is a method to help people through sound, the sound of healing instruments of ancient healing instruments, not just, creating frequencies and making those frequencies into different sounds using, a laptop because we can do that, but using ancient instruments that, the gong and the Zen bells and, the, the Koshi chimes.

 there's a beauty to these real authentic instruments [00:41:00] that, there's a craftsmanship and that craftsmanship, it's, it all plays into

Kara Goodwin: Well, that's beautiful. So beautiful. Are there places where people who are listening now can go to hear some of your creations?

Dr. Binyamin Klempner: it. Yeah. Well, I, they can go to my YouTube channel and my YouTube channel is, sounds for the soul eight nine six

Kara Goodwin: Okay.

Dr. Binyamin Klempner: I just started a podcast which is called The sound therapy podcast and They can go there, the sound therapy podcast, and, they can go to the harp method. com and the heart method. com is really specifically for therapists and coaches that want to receive training in this method. through the heart method dot com, I am also in the process of [00:42:00] launching a database where people will be able to find therapists who can offer this method can, can find a therapist who they relate 

with. 

Kara Goodwin: Oh, wonderful. Oh, that's amazing. Wow. Well, thank you so much for your time today. Thank you for everything that you're doing to use sound to help people and then just also. The embodiment of who you are and what is shining through you. I personally have just really cherished this hour that you and I have had together.

So there's clearly so much inner work that you've done over the course of your life, that's just bringing in and radiating out such positivity and divinity. I really have enjoyed our time together. Thank you

Dr. Binyamin Klempner: Oh, I really appreciate it. I really appreciate the opportunity to be on your show. So yeah. Yeah. [00:43:00] Thank you so much, Kara.

Kara Goodwin: Thank you.