359. The Art of Living: Transformation Through Breathwork & Meditation - Dr. Ajay Tejasvi

 [00:00:00] Hello, and welcome to the meditation conversation, the podcast to support your spiritual revolution. I'm your host, Cara Goodwin. And I'm so excited for you to dive into this episode with 

 Dr. Ajay narrow SimMan. He is full of wisdom about meditation and the breath. Uh, Jay is a key figure at the art of living, which is grounded in demystifying meditation, bringing holistic practices of breathwork and meditation to people of all walks of life from executives to youth. 

Uh, Jay brings a multifaceted expertise to his roles, blending international politics, leadership studies, and artificial intelligence engineering. 

His extensive experience includes over 15 years at the world bank group partnering with 42 governments to enhance governance and leadership. His [00:01:00] advisory role with the open government partnership extends his commitments to governance reforms. But what I love so much about this conversation is simply interacting with a J. 

He's so warm, centered, calm and humble. 

And this episode is full of practical insights that will reinvigorate your zest for meditation and breath work. We'll get right into that in a second. But first for you, plant lovers, are you familiar with pure leaf? Pure leaf is an alternative and complimentary approach to conventional plant care and pest control methods. It's a natural nontoxic alternative for caring for your plants. 

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Kara Goodwin: Well, thank you so much, Ajay, for being here today. I'm really excited to talk to you.

Ajay: It's a pleasure to be with you, Kara. So nice. Thank you

for having 

kara-goodwin_1_05-29-2024_110606: And it's really my pleasure. And I wanted to just start by talking a little bit about your background because you have such a multifaceted, um, expertise that you bring to everything that you are involved in. So can you talk about how you got into such a diverse breadth of interest and, um, and expertise?

ajay_1_05-29-2024_110606: Thanks, Kara. Yeah, it's, it's, it's really, it was almost like a natural progression for me. Um, right from a very young age, we've been very focused. I mean, we were raised, um, to have a very, I would say socially conscious [00:03:00] approach to living. And, and so we would really look at how is it that we can, you know, Give more to, to people around us, give more to society. And as part of that, you know, I, I went through high school and then I got into an engineering school, which is typically what a lot of people in India do. So my undergraduate is in engineering from Bangalore university. And big surprise. I went through a computer science, which is what everybody else was doing. But at the time my focus was still on. How do we use all of this technology for the greater good? And so how do we really make more of an impact than just on a corporate in a corporate environment or a corporate setting? So my focus was always on development as a whole. And how do we, how, how do we get the benefits of this modern technology to really help? And India in the [00:04:00] nineties was really coming out of this whole era of, uh, you know, very tight controls. And there was this whole liberalization opening up to the rest of the world, opening up to new ideas and new ways. And, and, and really lifting, there was a beautiful opportunity to lift so many people out of. And, you know, I believe, and this is something that my mother has instilled in me as well, that education is One of the main pathways for people to really elevate themselves, right? Education, obviously of science, math, and so on, but also of the self. And so all of these aspects were very interesting for me. And so it almost progressed naturally to a point where even during the, uh, my engineering degree, we focused on developing what was called the, uh, the simputer, like a simple computer that we could have in different villages. And these villages could then, you know, have Communications through different post [00:05:00] offices and so on. And, and so from that point on, uh, when I was at school here at USC, I was really looking at how do we really scale these, these ideas, uh, for development? How do we use technology for development? And so long story short, I ended up, uh, with, with an internship at the World Bank, uh, focusing on good governance and anti corruption and that sort of. really drove me to, you know, uh, to my, uh, schooling at Georgetown and eventually my PhD in economics and political science, uh, focusing on leadership, uh, because what leadership, uh, executives do, what, uh, national cabinets do really directly impacts not only their own people, Their own societies, but also the world at large, given how interconnected we are.

I mean, we're, we're already seeing these effects. And so it sort of made so much more sense for me that this holistic [00:06:00] approach needs to be part of policymaking. It needs to be part of policymaking. As we think of leadership, as we think of changing our own societies, our communities, this focus needs to be there. Um, and, and while doing that, I was really, uh, intrigued that, you know, there's one set of incentives and then there's checks and balances, right? We have these in every society around the world. But if the incentives are always external, Extrinsic to the individual, the change agent. It's short lived. I mean, we see institutions being challenged across the world. Trust in institutions here as well at home in the U. S. You see quite quite a degradation of that, that whole interest, isn't it? So how is it then you can keep that motivation of inspiration intrinsic to the individual? And that's where I found it. The power of meditation, the power of breathing, [00:07:00] the power of spirituality, if you may, because we're all spiritual beings. Right. And and how do we stay in touch with that aspect of ourselves, which is open, friendly, compassionate. The human values, uh, that we all share as a human race. And so that sort of brought me to this whole, , this whole journey, , and still inspires me every day, , to do what I do with the Art of Living Foundation, , which is really about leadership at the levels of corporate leaders.

And, and also we have, uh, made headway with, with national executives and cabinets, and at the same time with regular people. Um, because all of us can exercise leadership,

kara-goodwin_1_05-29-2024_110606: Well, so tell us about how that translates into your work, particularly with, um, executive leaders. So in terms of, um, Kind of the, the [00:08:00] incongruity, incongruity between spirituality, for example, personal development, and that sense of us as spiritual beings who are all interconnected and what we see in the corporate world in terms of.

Greed and, um, kind of the rat race and stepping on each other to win and competitiveness and all of those things that are, are things that are very ego based, ego driven. And I think that, you know, in, in spiritual terms, we kind of, um, you know, we make the enemy, the ego, we make the ego, the enemy. Which I don't agree with completely either, because that is the mechanism by which we are, you know, it's an important tool that we have in our lives to, to give us the impetus to do things.

You know, we came here purposefully, and if [00:09:00] we kind of kill the ego and we lose any drive to do anything, 

 but I am curious because we do see ego in overdrive and that being in the corporate world and that Like encouraged. You know, that that's how you're going to win and that's how you're going to help the company survive and to thrive. And so I don't know if you have any thoughts, but I can just imagine that that's a tough, a tough gig for you.

ajay_1_05-29-2024_110606: you know, Cara, if, uh, like, I mean, I also agree with you a hundred percent. See ego is part of us. Um, I should go there. She should have a Shankar, the founder of the art of living. He talks about the seven layers of our existence, uh, starting from the most, uh, I mean, tangible, which is our body, right? Which you can touch and feel to the breadth, which is more subtler than the body. Subtler than the breath is your mind, where you're really taking in all of this, this whole [00:10:00] world, all of these different senses, perceive, you know, you perceive all of what you're seeing around you through the mind. Um, and subtler than that is your intellect, which is judging. I mean, you're saying, yes, that makes sense.

That doesn't make sense. And sometimes we're not even aware of that, that whole interaction within our own heads. Subtler than that is the memory. which stores all of these experiences, these impressions in our lives. Um, and subtler than that is the ego, uh, which is the sense of me, right? This, uh, sometimes it, it becomes a sense of unnaturalness as well. But you see this, I mean, in children, very young children as it, as they grow out. of let's say being three or four years old, that sense of me comes up, right? Um, and subtler than that, we would say is the self, uh, your own soul or, you know, the super conscious [00:11:00] layer, whatever it is you want to call it, your own self, that which doesn't change by, by virtue of which you're able to see that everything is changing around the world. So if you look at it that way, the ego is an integral part of who you are. Now, if the ego is, uh, is too much, then it becomes unpalatable, right? It's, it should be like salt in your food. You need the ego, like you said, absolutely. You need that sense of, okay, what is it that I can do? How can I contribute? But at the same time, if it becomes too much, and consumes everything else. It becomes unpalatable, not just to others, but eventually to you as well. Um, and we've all worked with leaders around the world. Uh, and I know you have worked with, uh, uh, folks in the corporate sector as well. And a lot of times, you know, corporate life and individual life are not lived in compartments. Right? What happens at home [00:12:00] influences what happens at work, and what happens at work influences how you are at home. And so life is not lived in compartments. How is it then, can we find that balance that you can prosper responsibly? You don't have to, I mean, uh, I wouldn't advocate for a communist sort of a way.

I would say, let's all prosper responsibly. Uh, we don't have to profit off of somebody else's, uh, uh, loss and that comes with awareness. It comes with an awareness of who you are. And so at the art of living, we offer this program called the sky breath meditation, which really helps individuals manage their own minds.

First, you know, manage your own emotions. And the mind, the thoughts, because thoughts do their own thing, right? The mind does its own thing. You could be in this conversation, you could be listening to me, but at the same time, it could be doing something else. Maybe it's already taken a lunch break or a coffee break. So the, the, or [00:13:00] it's on the other side of the planet or it's on something else and it does this all the time. So how do we bring the mind, uh, to a place where it's able to be present? It's able to, because see, if you want to succeed as a leader, You need attention. Both you need to be attentive to what people need around you and at the same time people also need to be able to attend to what is it that you're saying.

So you need to have people's attention and you also need to be able to give attention. So it's a two way street. So how do you bring that attention back? And that's where the breath is a big, big tool. Uh, because the breath is in the present moment. You can't, you can't breathe for tomorrow and you can't say I already breathed. Yesterday, it's constantly with us, right? It's the companion that's with us. So through the breath, you bring the mind to the present moment. You're able to then connect to yourself. When the mind is calmer, then you're able to connect to yourself. And when you're able [00:14:00] to connect to yourself, you, you see the connections around you as well. You see that we're all interconnected. I depend on the farmer who grew this cotton, and then I depend on, depend on the driver who took this cotton to the factory, then that made this into yarn, and then this, they wove this or stitched it up into the shirt. There's so many people that we depend on. So you realize that interdependence, and you also realize that there's so much more.

You can really connect with people on a more, real level. And I think this is an epidemic today. I mean, the Surgeon General has talked about how we have this pandemic of loneliness. In not just the U S but around the world. And when we feel that disconnect, that's when I think people would try to withdraw into this cocoon and it just becomes what about me, but instead, if you can expand this circle of belonging, you really see that, [00:15:00] Hey, it's not just me, myself, my nuclear family. If, okay, I can have the most amount of money. I can have the best home and all of that stuff. I'm not against any of that. If what, what use is it if the roads are not motorable and people all around you are suffering, what use is that? And so with that comes a commitment. So, uh, Gurudev talks about the ABCs of leadership. The first is awareness, this awareness of your own self, of your own mind. of your own emotions, being able to manage your mind better, your emotions better. And with that comes a sense of belonging. You understand that, you know, Hey, this whole community is mine. This whole street, uh, that I live on, or this whole town that I live in is, is mine. So, and with that comes a commitment to make the world a better place. And so this is inherent to every individual. All it needs [00:16:00] is that awareness. And what, what is it that blocks our awareness? It's the stress. It's that inability to see things for what they are. I mean, I was just reading, uh, yesterday about, uh, stress bragging and people really brag about how

stressed they are. 

kara-goodwin_1_05-29-2024_110606: interesting. 

ajay_1_05-29-2024_110606: Yeah. So see, the mind is so intelligent. It makes even something that's as Disruptive as stress, a matter of pride. So how do we then get rid of this stress so that you can truly be your natural self and also associate pride with being peaceful rather than being aggressive? This is exactly what you spoke about, right?

I mean, it's about profit, profit, profit, greed at everybody else's expense. But we see many countries have gone through this. You know, certain sections of people have really [00:17:00] gotten so wealthy and there's some people don't even have food to eat. Then how does that compute? It's not logically, you know, it doesn't make logical sense, right?

You can't be happy when everybody around you is miserable. So all it needs is a switch in our thinking. And there is a way, there is a way that we can succeed together. And in fact, if you look, the biggest challenges in the world today need us to work together, isn't it?

kara-goodwin_1_05-29-2024_110606: Yes. So do you find that you see changes at the executive level? Level in terms of not only like stress reduction, but the ability to think in a more holistic way in terms of the whole picture of the life experience.

ajay_1_05-29-2024_110606: Absolutely, Kara. So, uh, from, so we created this [00:18:00] program called the Transformational Leadership for Excellence Program, and it's specifically targeted for executives of companies. And we all know right now, the status is that you have to deliver for your shareholders. Right? You have to deliver results, profits, and so on. Now, what we say, and, and that puts enormous amounts of stress on individuals. And when executives are stressed, that's when they can't make the right decisions, isn't it? When do you make your best decisions? When you're peaceful and calm, or when you have so much on your head, so much tension. When?

kara-goodwin_1_05-29-2024_110606: Oh yeah. 

ajay_1_05-29-2024_110606: think straight, right, 

kara-goodwin_1_05-29-2024_110606: peaceful for sure. Yeah.

ajay_1_05-29-2024_110606: And so it's actually a no brainer when you think about it. But then people, see, it's, it's people have trained themselves even to think stress is good for me. Well, you know, uh, Yerkes [00:19:00] Dodson, uh, two, uh, two psychologists did this study more than a hundred years ago about what they did was they took a group of people in a company, in an organization, and they started increasing the pressure, the workload on them. And so up to a point, there was. an improvement in productivity as well. But after a certain point of pressure and stress, it started declining. It's called the Yerkes Dodson curve. And what modern science shows us is that chronic stress doesn't stop just at your You know, decision making level. It impacts your attention.

It impacts your learning. It impacts your memory, right? All of these are important for executives to be able to focus on the task on hand, to be able to delegate, to be able to think of a plan that that that is holistic, right? All of this is impacted. [00:20:00] And what happens is that your amygdala is hyper stimulated, and then you just start taking decisions very emotionally. And not just that, the stress, we all know the impact on our body, right? I mean, increased blood lactate levels, serum cortisol. and all of the other things that come along with it. So the key for all of this is better handling that stress, um, so that you, you have that awareness. And when people are able to manage the stress, um, eliminate some of these, you know, this noise. able to transform themselves as well into much better leaders because, you know, I think you would agree with me. Nobody wants to be a bad person or nobody wants to be, uh, seen as an angry person, right? Uh, we all want to be happy. We all want to be loved. And the thing is [00:21:00] nowhere at school, not at home. Are we taught how to manage our negative emotions? Right? I mean, we tell our children, don't be angry, don't get upset. I mean, even we were told that, right? But how not to, that is seldom taught. And this is the education of that. You know, how do you manage that negativity?

kara-goodwin_1_05-29-2024_110606: That's amazing. So it's interesting to think of it from the executive level and managing from, you know, the, your inner world and changing kind of the perception of stress and the, you know, how much you're, you can take on what you re evaluating, what's important when I think about it from, you know, the, What, where their pressure comes from.

And if it's ultimately a shareholder, the shareholder, you know, the quarterly meeting, the, the investors, and that is so money driven, [00:22:00] how does that play in the role, you know, if we're investing in the stock market, if we're, you know, because the public then is kind of the almost inadvertently putting pressure on these executives because they're working to.

Make money for shareholders as part of the thing, part of their responsibility is to give back to the shareholders by, by making their goods profitable and being better than their competitors and so forth. So that's part of the equation that they, you know, how do we shift everybody's mindset? Do you know, I mean, it's like, we kind of have to shift everybody to be able to say.

Are we prioritizing, like, does this model help everybody or are we hurting ourselves, 

you know, 

ajay_1_05-29-2024_110606: Absolutely. And I think that's where awareness is key. And that's [00:23:00] why I think the efforts need to be at all levels of society. How do we get everybody to be able to learn? Mental hygiene, right? We, I mean, it was just what, 150 years ago, people wouldn't brush their teeth, right? And we learned as a human society to be able to brush our teeth and we learned about dental hygiene. I think it's time it's and it's already growing. You can see in the last 40 years or so. I mean, what, 40 years ago or 50 years ago, yoga was taboo, right? I mean, you wouldn't talk about it even like 20 years ago. Yeah. Meditation was in the same place, right? Um, but I think as people are seeing the scientific research and the benefits and see people who meditate are naturally able to be more resilient as well. You are able to take on so much more and be more productive and people see that and [00:24:00] you can do that with a smile as well, right? And even for your shareholders, you can produce better results when you're at your peak performance, isn't it? Right? When does an athlete perform the best? When they are in the peak of their shape, right? And so this is where I think understanding this paradigm, the paradigm shift has to happen in our mind, right? That the body and the mind work on opposite paradigms. For the body to be in peak performance, we need to feed it right, eat the right sort of food, uh, the right amount of food at the right time.

You need to exercise, um, go to the gym, swim, run, walk, whatever it is. You need to sleep right, the right amount of sleep, six to eight hours of sleep everybody needs. So effort is needed to keep your body in peak performance. But for the mind, the opposite is true. [00:25:00] To keep the mind in peak performance, Effortlessness is key. Relaxing. And how do you do that? Telling yourself to relax doesn't

work, right? 

kara-goodwin_1_05-29-2024_110606: and scrolling doesn't work. 

ajay_1_05-29-2024_110606: Oh, that makes it even more 

kara-goodwin_1_05-29-2024_110606: we think, oh, I'll relax and I'll scroll on social media or. Shop or something. Yes. And it's not the 

ajay_1_05-29-2024_110606: But it riles you up many times, doesn't it? Or gets you, gets you revved up to do something. The opposite is, is, uh, the key here, allowing the mind to relax. And that's where, you know, all of this, uh, breath based, uh, meditation, pranayama, yoga, all of these help in helping bring the mind to settle. And when it settles, then you find more energy from within yourself as well. So, I mean, you can't go to the market and buy energy, right? You have to find it from within. [00:26:00] And so understanding this, see, uh, before this we spoke about, you know, how even in schools they're teaching young kids about, you know, athletes, right? Star athletes, they meditate, they breathe before they go in. It's about the mind. If the mind is there, then you know what, what options you have in front of you. You can take those decisions. But if it's clouded, full of thoughts, You're not in a position to do that. And so it's, it's, I would say it's, uh, essential for us to find a way to keep our mind in peak, uh, in its peak performance. And that's where all of these techniques have. And so going back to your question about, you know, uh, shareholders and realizing gains for them, when you're thinking straight, that's when you can do it, right? When you're stressed and really not very clear with your decisions, it's a [00:27:00] vicious cycle. It takes you down. So even that's, this is where, you know, you find, uh, executives really find the value in this, in this as well, that they're able to think clearer, think straighter and also convey, convey what is it that they have to

say better. Um, so a clear mind is a prerequisite for better perception. Better observation internally and better

expression. 

kara-goodwin_1_05-29-2024_110606: Hmm. That's fantastic. So you've talked about breath work and pranayama, um, the sky breath, I think is the, the kind of, um, key for your practice, but, um, I'd love to hear about your, the importance that you put on breath work, how it works into your own life and. What the sky breath is like, I haven't heard of that one before.

Um, because breath is so powerful. Maybe you want to refresh people's memories as to [00:28:00] why it's so powerful as well.

ajay_1_05-29-2024_110606: Absolutely. is the first thing that you did when you came to this world?

kara-goodwin_1_05-29-2024_110606: Breathed. 

ajay_1_05-29-2024_110606: You took

a breath in, right? And

started crying. And what is the last thing that we all will do?

kara-goodwin_1_05-29-2024_110606: Exhale. Yeah.

ajay_1_05-29-2024_110606: Exhale, right? You breathe out. And if you lived a good life, people around you cry. And in this period of 70, 80, 90, 100, now even 120 years, people are living, right? That which is constantly with us is the breath. And still we pay very little attention to this breath. When is it that we pay attention to this breath? When you're short of

it, right? 

kara-goodwin_1_05-29-2024_110606: Yeah. 

ajay_1_05-29-2024_110606: Have you, have you observed? When is it that you pay, when you've just climbed up stairs and you're panting for breath or you've just run something and you want [00:29:00] to recover, right? So paying a little bit more attention to this breath can help us really explore different dimensions of ourselves. For instance, If you see, when you're angry, have you observed your breath? How is your breathing pattern when you're

angry? 

kara-goodwin_1_05-29-2024_110606: Shallow.

ajay_1_05-29-2024_110606: Shallow, short,

right? And fast, right? And when you're happy, how is

it? 

Right? You take a deep breath in. Wow. And how is it when you're, uh, sad? There's a exhalation, there's a deeper exhalation than the in breath. So what, um, you know, people have known for centuries, right? The sages, I would say, from different cultures. Um, and, and from the Vedic culture as well, people have known that the breath and the [00:30:00] mind are interlinked, and modern science is also catching up in one sense.

There was a study in 2002 that was done by three, three scientists in Belgium. And what they did was they play, they took a set of people and they played certain videos, uh, to them, so to evoke different emotions. And they found that there were certain breathing patterns. So they played videos that made people angry, So there was a certain breathing pattern.

They made, they played videos that was, you know, getting people to laugh and there was a certain breathing pattern and so on, right? So what they were able to establish is that the mind has an impact on our body through the breath. Then they took this experiment a step further. They said if we get people to breathe in certain ways, What does that have in terms of an impact on the state of mind? And lo and behold, when they got people to breathe in [00:31:00] certain ways, they had that specific impact on their mind. or their emotion. So it's a two way street. In the same way that the mind impacts the body and the breath through these different patterns, you can have a positive impact on your mind through using the breath in certain ways.

kara-goodwin_1_05-29-2024_110606: Mm.

ajay_1_05-29-2024_110606: And another thing to remember is that managing the mind from the level of the mind is also not a very easy task, right? It's called ironic processes. Try not to think of a pink elephant. 

kara-goodwin_1_05-29-2024_110606: Yeah. 

ajay_1_05-29-2024_110606: We've all done this, right? We've all tried this. So the harder you try to push the mind, The harder it becomes for it to relax, telling the mind, relax, relax, relax, doesn't work for any of us. So then what is the solution? This is where using, harnessing the power of the breath in certain patterns. And so prana yama literally means [00:32:00] regulating the flow of life force. Prana is life force in Sanskrit and yama is to regulate. So regulating this flow of the subtle life force into our body. So Gurudev founded The Art of Living more than 45 years ago. Um, 44 years actually. Um, next year we'll be celebrating the 45th year.

And for these 45 years, he's been, um, sharing this wisdom about the breath. And how do we use the breath to manage our mind, to impact our mind positively. So at the core is the Sky Breath Meditation. Re yoga. So S is proper and Chen is vision, and Korea is action. So Sian Kre literally means purifying action. or a proper vision through the purifying action of the breath. [00:33:00] So it's a rhythmic breathing technique. You learn over a period of eight hours how to, how to learn this breathing technique. Uh, so it comes with a set of pranayamas and the rhythmic breathing, uh, exercise. Uh, which is a meditation. It's an active breath based meditation, as I shared. And it typically takes you 20 minutes every morning. So I practice this every morning. And you learn this over a period of eight hours, spread over three days. So Friday, Saturday, Sunday, typically a couple of hours each, uh, or two and a half hours each. And, and you have this practice that you can do every day at home. Um, and so that along with another technique called the Sahaj Samadhi meditation, which is, uh, a mantra based meditation. Now, as a meditator yourself, you know that there are certain sounds that have an impact on our body, on our mind. Like, That sound is universal, right? Around the world, doesn't matter if you're in [00:34:00] Japan or, or in Brazil, that sound means the same. So there are certain sounds that have a definitive impact on our consciousness. So there's a, so you, you are given a certain sound that then you use as part of your meditation. So it's a, it's a very complimentary approach, uh, learning the active breathing, uh, to eliminate the stress. And then. You just relax using the Sahaja Samadhi Meditation, you just sit down. And there have been like more than 100, 100 studies, independent studies on these, on these techniques, uh, for people of various age groups as well. And it's, it's very, it's very nice to see that so many people, I mean, in the U. S., we have more than, uh, 108 universities, uh, that are offering these programs. Several of them offer them for credit

as well. 

kara-goodwin_1_05-29-2024_110606: That's a very auspicious number, 108.

ajay_1_05-29-2024_110606: It's

interesting, no? Uh, [00:35:00] at least it was 108 last year, maybe it's grown.

But it is 

kara-goodwin_1_05-29-2024_110606: is 

a very good number. So

ajay_1_05-29-2024_110606: Yes, I, we, we agree. And I think that that is seeing a lot of acceptance across society. Uh, this program is offered to veterans who are suffering from PTS. Uh, and, and you've seen such a transformation in just like three, four days.

Uh, it's called the project Welcome Home Troops. Um, and People, families come back and say, you know, you've given our son back to us or you've given our husband or our wife back to us because these traumas accumulate in our body and we have to get them out. And so a daily practice is really helpful. And this is what this program gives you a daily practice that you can do yourself.

From the comfort of your home, uh, and it really transforms your entire

day. 

kara-goodwin_1_05-29-2024_110606: I love that. I [00:36:00] mean, and thinking of Pranayama, you mentioned it with the life force regulation. And I think that's really important for us to. Keep in mind is that there is this life force, what is animating the body, even if we purely look at it on the physical level, the breath is giving the body this animating force.

And so, so much disease and imbalance, mental imbalance, all of it. It's, it's, A lot of it, I believe is the root is this lack of life force. There's just not enough. Of this life force or this energy that's accessible that the cells need to be healthy for, um, healthy regeneration for that are, are, um, emotional body needs to be able to complete its processing.

Um, it's this vital. Element, but [00:37:00] because it is, um, not physical, you know, going back to what you talked about with those seven kind of aspects and the, the, how they get subtle finer and finer subtleties within them, but you know, it literally is this nourishing element that we, that we need to stay in balance, that we need to be able to, like you say, dissolve traumas and to be able to work with our body.

It's a very. It's funny because it's not physical, which is why I think it's kind of hard for us sometimes to grasp, but it really has this very tangible and physical, um, result when our body isn't getting enough of it. So I just like to take the opportunity to kind of, for people to chew on that a little bit, to be like this, this life force, it's not a concept it's literally It's a literal force and, and breath work is so [00:38:00] paramount into delivering more of that into our body, um, and to, to clear stagnation out and so forth.

So that's beautiful.

ajay_1_05-29-2024_110606: It's, it's very important, Khera. See, where is the life? Is it in this body or is it in the air?

kara-goodwin_1_05-29-2024_110606: Yes, both.

ajay_1_05-29-2024_110606: Both, right? I mean, see, if you take this body out of air, or you take the, you know, you put ourselves in a vacuum, what,

what remains? Right. So I think this is something for us to think through, like you said, chew on a little bit, that this breath brings us this, this prana, this life force that flows all around.

And you're absolutely right. A lot of these ailments that we have are because of the prana not moving around. And just a little bit of understanding about this, about the subtle life force can really transform it. Your [00:39:00] own, your own life. And at the same time, people around you as well, because I mean, if you're unhappy, then your whole family is unhappy,

right? It's when you're happy, then you can spread

that around 

kara-goodwin_1_05-29-2024_110606: Right. Right. Beautiful. So what is your meditation practice like at this level, this, this time in your life where you have so many demands and so you've got your hands in so many different projects, um, you know, a couple of things come to mind. Sometimes I feel like people have an understanding or a misconception That meditation is a tool to help them get through a difficult time, which it can be, but the real benefit is in that cumulative effect.

So, um, I hear people who either think that they are want to tell themselves they've gotten beyond needing to meditate or, you know, that they're a walking meditate, their life as a walking meditation, you know, and it's simply, they [00:40:00] feel that they don't have time for it. Um, and so they want to believe that they.

Don't have a need for it. They've reached a state where they don't have a need for it anymore. Um, you looking at you and understanding the demands within your life would be kind of the perfect person to say, you've graduated out of needing to meditate. It helped you get to this point and now, you know, you don't need it anymore.

I'm guessing that's not the case, but I would love to hear from your personal experience, what meditation is like in your daily life.

ajay_1_05-29-2024_110606: you know, uh, Kara, it has, it has evolved over the last 20, 30 years that I've been meditating, um, or slightly more. And I find that it's something that I truly enjoy. It's not like, like, you know, it's not something that, uh, uh,

I, 

kara-goodwin_1_05-29-2024_110606: You have to 

ajay_1_05-29-2024_110606: like you said, some people, yeah, it's not like I have to do it. It's, it's part of my My, I [00:41:00] don't even have to think twice about it.

I'm like, yes, this is part of what I

do. And I find that it 

kara-goodwin_1_05-29-2024_110606: to that example. I love 

ajay_1_05-29-2024_110606: it's

like mental hygiene for me. And, you know, every day we, we encountered new experiences, new people, uh, new challenges. And I feel meditation helps you have a clean slate every day. You know, it just wipes away all of these, like you said, you know, these impressions or traumas, whatever they may be. Helps you get rid of the stress, uh, and really find, refine that balance again and again and again, because life is new every day. Uh, you can't say like, you know, I said, you can't say I breathed for yesterday and I'm gonna, I don't have to breathe today or tomorrow. You have to continue doing it. Okay. You see, I vacuumed this whole house and I'm going to keep it closed for like 30 days. And it's going to be fine. But you come back home, there's still that fine layer of dust, right? So it's a practice. And it's something [00:42:00] that continues to nurture your nervous system and make you more resilient. That has been my experience. And so I enjoy it. I practice every day. Uh, so the sky breath and the sahaj I do in the morning, so that's complimentary.

And in the evening, I do the Uh, they're like bookends. In the evening, I do my sahaj samadhi practice, which is 20, 20 minute practice. Um, so in the morning, it takes me about 40 minutes, 40 45 minutes, and in the evening, 20 minutes. So, and it's something that I factored in to my schedule, saying that, you know what, I get up in the morning, 5.

30, 6, whatever it is, But I have one hour for myself. I do some stretches and then I have my meditation and it's there. It's, it's, it's scheduled into my, into my, into my daily life. And I find that it really enhances the quality of my, my life, the quality of my conversations, my interactions with people. Uh, I am able to give people more attention.

I am able to [00:43:00] give people, uh, more information. My presence of mind, which I feel is the biggest gift we can give to each other, isn't it? We can be present for each other. And very often, I mean, it really, you know, I would say it breaks my heart to see young children and families, actually, everybody with a device in their hand and their head hanging down like this, you know, and I've seen all these funny cartoons. But it's not funny, you know, it's, we, we, we need to be able to speak with one another, connect with one another. And I think that, that, uh, that's such a wealth for, for me personally, being able to connect with, with, each of us on a real, uh, in a real manner in real time. And so my meditation practice allows me to have that attention, allows me to focus on the different. demands of my time. Um, and it's not as if I don't lose my cool. Uh, I do [00:44:00] lose my cool sometimes, but then I also, I'm able to regain my center, regain my balance. sooner than like many, many years ago. Um, so what I've seen in my own life that this, all these practices have helped me become more resilient. Um, and at the same time maintain my, that, that sense of joy, that sense of happiness about life. And do we have challenges? Absolutely. Life is full of challenges. There are ups and downs. Otherwise, how would you know that you're even happy, right? There are difficult times. Um, and I feel that's when the meditation reminds you, right? I mean, all of these practices, the spiritual practices, remind you that, you know, life is moving and it's wise for us also to move along with it.

Sometimes people get stuck. I mean, I know so many, people who are stuck in their teens, right, or in their high school days. Those are the best days of my life. And they don't even give an opportunity for [00:45:00] life to present itself in all its glory, in all its magnanimity, you know. And so that's where I feel all of these practices open you up, open your mind, open your heart, uh, for something new. To accept what this beautiful creation has to offer to us, what, you know, what we can have from this divine, whatever, you know, uh, there is some force, isn't it? That, that has, that there's that intelligence in this, in this creation, in this universe. We can call it God, divine, whatever it is, nature, there is that greater force.

And so having that openness to feel that oneness with that, to feel the gifts that we get every day, I think that's a big blessing. And I'm very grateful for my practice for that.

kara-goodwin_1_05-29-2024_110606: I 

ajay_1_05-29-2024_110606: And I would, I would say, you know, and I, I definitely am not at that point yet. I know some [00:46:00] people are at a point where they don't need to meditate.

I would say I enjoy meditating.

I enjoy and I

I like it. 

kara-goodwin_1_05-29-2024_110606: I love it. I love it. I agree 100%. This is great. Well, I have just loved connecting with you, Ajay. Um, this has been an amazing discussion. Can you please tell people how they can find out more about you?

ajay_1_05-29-2024_110606: Absolutely. Um, I, you know, I'm quite active on, uh, uh, LinkedIn. So I post, I post, uh, from time to time articles on leadership. Uh, I am getting a little more active on Instagram as well. Now I'm sharing some of my thoughts and some of the work that I've been doing. But I would welcome you to join a program that perhaps myself or one of my fellow instructors is taking on the sky breath and learn a little bit more about how this [00:47:00] breath can really help transform the quality of our life.

So we can be the best version. And you'd find more information on artofliving. org. That's artofliving. org. And, um, yeah, I mean, like, I look forward to seeing some of, some of the viewers on, on some of our programs in the future

as well. 

kara-goodwin_1_05-29-2024_110606: Wonderful. Thank you so much for being here today.

ajay_1_05-29-2024_110606: Thank you, Kara. Thank you for having me.