384. Bridge Between Life & Death: Nurturing the Final Transition

Transcript

Helen Gretchen Jones

[00:00:00]

Kara Goodwin: Welcome to the meditation conversation, the podcast to support your spiritual revolution. I'm your host, Cara Goodwin. And this episode with Helen Gretchen Jones is one of those that gets my attention because we had so much technical interference.

That always makes me wonder if we're getting hit with higher frequencies, as it's a known phenomenon that technology misbehaves with high frequencies. But more than that, Gretchen is just a beautiful and kind soul who is so sincere and really beams light through her words and presence. We talk a lot about the death transition and her experiences in helping people cross over, including a fascinating story of a shared death experience.

Thank you

We also talk about how she perceives spirit communication, and she gives practical tips for you to improve your spirit connection. Helen Gretchen Jones is a compassionate death [00:01:00] doula, intuitive, and channeler who writes about shared death experiences and the essence of spiritual consciousness. Her writing focuses on fostering loving connections with oneself and others.

And her work emphasizes trusting personal experiences and the teaching she channels from her team and spirit known as the A Team.

And we'll get into the episode in just a moment, but I want to let you know first about Love Tuner. I had Love Tuner's founder Sigmar Berg on a recent episode. Where we talked about the magic of sound frequencies, specifically the frequency of 528. Love Tuner gives you simple and immediate access to this frequency throughout your day.

There's so many benefits from utilizing the power of the breath, to being in the sound itself, to just taking a couple of minutes of pause. I've personally loved using it for infusing the frequency into different rooms and spaces.

Use my link in the notes and code Kara for 10 percent off. [00:02:00] That's K A R A for 10 percent off of LoveTuner. And now enjoy this episode.

kara-goodwin_1_09-09-2024_110527: welcome Gretchen. I'm so excited to have you here today.

helen-gretchen-jones_1_09-09-2024_100527: Thank you so much. It's just, I'm really excited to be here as well.

kara-goodwin_1_09-09-2024_110527: So I'd love to start by just talking about your spiritual journey, how you ended up becoming an author and a death doula and, uh, what, what sort of set the course for that?

helen-gretchen-jones_1_09-09-2024_100527: I would say the catalyst was my father's death in 2015. Um, his death was, well, maybe not unexpected for me, it was unexpected for the family. He was in his fifties and he had cirrhosis of the liver. Um, and I think a lot of the family was in denial I recognized at that point that I wanted to help other families and other patients, um, to not have that shock and that, and, and have a greater sense of closure, [00:03:00] um, before that final breath.

And so that's when I started sort of looking into working with the dying community.

kara-goodwin_1_09-09-2024_110527: So would you? Would you say that there was a spiritual awakening that happened along with your father's death or has that or have you? Cultivated that throughout your life.

helen-gretchen-jones_1_09-09-2024_100527: So I've always had a connection to spirit for as long as I can remember, and, um, my dad, I remember telling him when I was little about spirit and he would just say, I believe that you believe that's what you saw. He was really not into it. My family was not very spiritual. but it didn't make me question my, my experiences.

They were so transformative. I knew that they were real for me and it did make me, however, question the wisdom of my parents. So it sort of set me on my own independent spiritual journey that I, I mostly kept to myself for a long time [00:04:00] I had a premonition about my dad's death. That's why it wasn't a surprise for me, but it was for the family. But I also, um, you know, worked with my dad after he died. He sort of, you know, guided me and helped me for that first year after his death. Uh, he was an amazing communicator after death, but not a good communicator in life. So it was sort of our, our relationship continued to strengthen after he transitioned. So, my connection to spirit has always been in place, but as far as awakening goes, I, I would say that I'm always waking up a little bit more and more to, um, just how limitless we really are as souls and as people.

kara-goodwin_1_09-09-2024_110527: love that. That's so well said Would you care to share what your premonition? With your about your father's death was like

helen-gretchen-jones_1_09-09-2024_100527: Um, he had come to stay with me

kara-goodwin_1_09-09-2024_110527: in real life

helen-gretchen-jones_1_09-09-2024_100527: in

kara-goodwin_1_09-09-2024_110527: Uh huh.

helen-gretchen-jones_1_09-09-2024_100527: he had come to stay with me and my family and he, [00:05:00] you know, he would drink every day and watch news really loud on the couch. And it kind of became annoying after a while, but I didn't want him to feel like that he wasn't welcome. and every day that he was supposed to leave, he would stay a day longer because he wasn't sober enough to drive home.

It was a three hour drive for him. it became sort of an inconvenience and, um, but I, I was struggling with, you know, I was glad my dad was there. It was just, it was really tough for me. So I went into a closet. That's where it was quietest in my house. I was just doing a little meditation just to kind of center myself to find peace because I was kind of frustrated, that he was staying another day. And, um, that moment I saw the colors red and black. I saw my dad dying in a hospital with these aqua bluish green walls. I saw my daughter who looked to be the same age she was currently with me, um, [00:06:00] standing next to me, holding my hand. And I saw the number five flashing above his head I immediately snapped out of it.

And, but in that moment I felt, yeah, that's right. Like this makes sense. This is how it's supposed to be. Uh, but the moment I came out of my meditation, it gave me a sickening feeling because no, I don't want that to happen. That's my dad. I love him so much. And so I had this kind of like dual struggle going on.

Um. Um. Um, when we got the word, he went into rehab right after Christmas. And when we got the word that he wasn't doing well in rehab, we all, family from different parts of Texas, that's where we're located, um, started the drive to go see him. And um, he appeared in the car beside me. And in that moment, I'm driving with my sister Gwen.

And in that moment, I knew that he had transitioned and that it was okay and everything was just as it's supposed to be. And it was perfect. And he just, he just said, when he showed up, he just said, this is my choice. And I just [00:07:00] love that moment and the second he left, it was like I slammed back into my body again and I was just like, no, no, you can't go.

Not yet. But I didn't want to scare my sister because she's a little more fragile. And she was in the passenger seat, so I kept it to myself, and then we got the call that he had passed, and we continued anyway to the hospital to see him. sure enough, he was in an aqua room, just as I had seen. It was only five months after the premonition. Five months on February 25th, I mean on February 5th of 2015, and he was in his fifties. So it was all these vibes. Um, and so it was. for me, you know, to, to have that experience. It made me question though, after that experience, was I supposed to tell him, was I supposed to stop it? Was I having a premonition because I could change things? and that was, initial response. And then after that, I realized that that's not the case at all. The truth is, I believe that when the words that my dad said, this is my choice was really important to my greater understanding [00:08:00] later, was on a soul level, when a soul makes a choice to make that transition, even if the personality is not fully aware, the person, the human. Um, that soul already knows. And I think that's what I pick up on are the waves or the, um, packets of information that come through that you tune into, think I was tuning into something he had already chosen. So it wasn't something I could stop. It wasn't meant to be stopped. It was meant sort of as a way for me to prepare. and to maybe help my family prepare. And so now, with my team in spirit, as I'm working with the dying community, I get ballparks on when people are going to transition. And I now know I don't have to stop it. It isn't about me telling them if they don't want to know. It's about me making the steps now to prepare the family or the patient to find closure, to kind of soften those edges around grief, um, beforehand some, and, and, and bring a little peace to both the family and the patients before, before they transition.

kara-goodwin_1_09-09-2024_110527: Wow. Now, with this [00:09:00] premonition or these premonitions, um, that you experienced with your dad and that you sometimes, that you say that you're, you experience also now with clients. Was that something that you were familiar with? What, had you had that experience before of these kind of images, these symbols, um, coming through in meditation or in dreams or anything, has that been something that's happened throughout your life?

helen-gretchen-jones_1_09-09-2024_100527: Yes, and I've journaled it and so far so good on the accuracy, but, um, I know it sounds like of all the things to get premonitions on someone's death, it sounds like a scary thing, but it really

kara-goodwin_1_09-09-2024_110527: Is it always around that somebody's death? Is that always where you pick that up or is other areas of life as well?

helen-gretchen-jones_1_09-09-2024_100527: Oh, other areas of life as well, of course, but as far as working with the dying community, it's pretty helpful. I do, for example, know that there's a family member I have that's going to transition four years from now or four years from this past summer. that person I know has told me that if I ever get any [00:10:00] information on them, they don't want to

kara-goodwin_1_09-09-2024_110527: Oh, okay.

helen-gretchen-jones_1_09-09-2024_100527: So I will not, a lot of my family members told me that by the way, I will not be revealing who that is or, um, or even to them. but it does. help me now to whenever I speak with them on the phone, or if I go see them to very gently say, what was your favorite thing about this year? did you love, you know, and just really help them find appreciation in the life that they've lived so far and value the simple things that they've gotten to experience, you know? So I think that that kind of helps. Kind of move people into having really feeling good about what they've lived whenever their time comes Looking back so I can start that process now without revealing something that would be deemed scary for them.

kara-goodwin_1_09-09-2024_110527: That's beautiful. So you have a book called Healing Whispers from Spirit Guides. And I understand this isn't com Completely about death, but there [00:11:00] is a death component of it. But I know that people are always really interested to hear about spirit guides and what your contact is like with your spirit guides, how they communicate to you and perhaps.

It's the premonitions that you've talked about. That's pretty strong. But, um, tell us about your book and, and what you share in there.

helen-gretchen-jones_1_09-09-2024_100527: Sure, so I'm a death doula and a death doula is someone who helps people transition holistically To help people find peace At the end of life, used to be done primarily by nurses and family, um, but with the changing health care system, nurses have so much more paperwork and red, red tape that they kind of have to go through and it takes up so much more of their time. so sitting bedside with patients is becoming harder and harder for nurses to do. So. There's a need for people to sit, um, my team and [00:12:00] spirit, I call them a team um, a little before my time, there was a crime fighting TV series called the a team. Okay. My husband told me about it. I didn't know, but I know there's Mr.

kara-goodwin_1_09-09-2024_110527: Yes. Uh huh.

helen-gretchen-jones_1_09-09-2024_100527: eighties.

kara-goodwin_1_09-09-2024_110527: Yeah. That, that's in my time. I, I remember the A team. Yeah.

helen-gretchen-jones_1_09-09-2024_100527: Okay. So I didn't, when I called my team that I didn't realize it already, it was already taken. You know? And so my husband told me and I was like, what? Okay, that's kind of lame. Like I want to change the name now. And I told my team in spirit, I was like, all right, guys, the name's lame. We're going to change a team to something else.

I want it to be more symbolic of something, you know, that means one or singular, like something that can represent a collective. And I said, the ball's in your court. Let's do this. You know, let's change your name. And I left right after that to go take my cat to the vet. And a dumpster was being delivered to the vet clinic, and it was blocking, a temporary dumpster, it was blocking all the parking spaces, and it was a green, olive green dumpster, and in big, [00:13:00] white, bold letters, it said, A team, and I was like, okay,

kara-goodwin_1_09-09-2024_110527: They're like, you're,

helen-gretchen-jones_1_09-09-2024_100527: your

kara-goodwin_1_09-09-2024_110527: you don't get a say here, Gretchen. Nope. We, we already chose it.

helen-gretchen-jones_1_09-09-2024_100527: Yeah, and they did tell me, I was in that moment that I recognized that A does mean singular or one in English, and also

that we are a team, and that, um, They need me as much as I need them, and we absolutely work together, um, to have these experiences and to teach through them. So, um, A Team it is, and sometimes when A Team comes in, when, uh, sometimes they come in as a masculine voice, or it could be a feminine voice, but their voice sounds different than mine. Also, they send a lot of, uh, clairvoyant images. I'm very, I'm very visual in that way. And so A Team will deliver an image and, um, it comes in so much faster than what I could create. It's almost like a download. And so, um, when it comes in so quick, it's like then my mind goes through and tries to [00:14:00] interpret it much more slowly.

And I'm, I'm You know, and I have to sometimes they have to reiterate something because I get it wrong or if I get it wrong I'll see like this space age door slam down over my shoulder. They'll be like, nope, you're going the wrong direction with it So they do guide me along my interpretation of their messages I do have a few personalities that come through some are male some are female and I actually get a visual of them Whether that or not they really look like that I don't know but it does help me to connect to be able to visualize It's something if I want to, like, just connect independently with one personality.

Kara Goodwin: apologies if we're coming in on this and it's a little bit disconnected from where we just left off. We had some technical issues and as you probably know, when the vibration gets high, you can have technical issues. And we've had our fair share on both sides, which is interesting when it's not just one side, but it's like, We're both, you know, camera issues and audio issues.

And, um, so [00:15:00] we, we spent a little bit of time like trying to get reconnected. And now I'm like, well, what were we talking about? We were talking about your spirit guides, the A team, and you were sharing about how they, um, sometimes come in and they'll, I was interested of how you said, it sounds like they, or it's, it feels like they kind of shut a, Space door?

How did you put that?

Helen Gretchen Jones: do. So, um, they'll be this like, um, image of like, what would be a spaceship door from like any kind of sci fi movie? Like anything like that. I'm not super into sci fi, but my son and my husband, they kind of like that kind of stuff. So I can picture it like a spaceship door just kind of goes right over my shoulder and like, it tells me to stop, like, shut it down.

Uh, don't go any further. You're saying something that's, you've interpreted the message incorrectly and you're about to give or say something that is not appropriate or

Kara Goodwin: I love that. [00:16:00] So do you have a sense of where your guides are from, or if they're part of like your ancestral lineage, or some people, Get guidance. They feel like they are ETS or light beings are in the angelic realm. When you call them the a team, it makes me think of angels. Um, what, or is it just like a collective of wisdom and you don't necessarily like have a, uh, location or an identity for where they might be from?

Right.

Helen Gretchen Jones: Um, I have, uh, sometimes if I don't, okay, sometimes I come in as blue balls of light. be like these glowing blue balls and sometimes they'll come in as like a white light and if I really focus on them, um, they will, if a being will take shape and they will look kind of, the white is transparent, but it has like golden and pinks and blues, but real pastelly kind of look in, but see throughout the same time, kind of hard to explain.[00:17:00]

Um, so I know that I have an Some angelics. I know that I have some, um, I know like for example, my dad temporarily joined for a little while. He's not there that I'm aware of now. So as a collective people come and go, I think as I need them, uh, so that would be my ancestors. I had a session done one time and I just asked them, I said, can you tell me a little bit about my spirit guides?

They didn't know that I called them a team, but the choice of words that they used all started with A's. They said it's ancestors, angelics, Um, what was the other alternate dimensional beings, ascended masters. So all the word choices that they used were A's and they could have used other ones. They could have said deceased loved ones or, you know, they, but they chose, um, all a words, which I thought were, was a beautiful sort of validation for

Kara Goodwin: I love that. That gives me a lot of chills. So I, I understand that in your book, healing whispers from spirit guides, you also talk about [00:18:00] shared death experiences. And I would love for you to talk a little bit about what that is and what those experiences have been like.

Helen Gretchen Jones: So a shared death experience is when the person who's not dying, a witness or an observer sort of goes partway into the spirit world. Um, with on a little journey, a spiritual journey with the person who is dying, the person who is dying will go further into the spirit world. I kind of get held back. Um, but a shared death experience is anyone can have them.

And um, I think that the way to have them is to. Sometimes they're spontaneous and people don't prepare and they just happen to have one But I think if you set the intention to have one and you practice What it feels like to turn inward and sort of reflect a little bit or find that peace or silence within you I think it becomes easier to recognize Without dismissing the spiritual signs that are coming in that you're about to [00:19:00] have a shared death experience But I I've had several.

Um the Me Important thing to say about a shared death experience is that they jumpstart you in your grieving process by helping you to feel hopeful that this is not the final goodbye. I think if we can get more people to have shared death experiences and have these peaceful transitions with their family, it really eases some of that grief after the person transitions.

Um, For me, some of these shared death experiences have happened at the bedside of hospice patients and also NODA patients. Uh, NODA is, NODA stands for, uh, No One Dies Alone. It's a hospital based program for people who maybe never had children, people whose family lives out of the country or out of the state.

Maybe they just, you know, burned all those bridges and nobody wants to be there. There's a number of reasons someone could be dying alone. Um, and they need people to sit with these. And I know that I am not the only one who has had a similar experience with these patients. And so some of the [00:20:00] most beautiful, um, shared death experiences have happened, um, through Noda actually.

And I can share one if you'd like. I'll summarize it. It's in the book in more detail, but, um, one patient I had was, which one do I pick? I'll pick Mrs. Wilma. Mrs. Wilma was, um, I got the call to come in for her and she was a elderly black woman in her nineties or close to that. And She was peacefully resting.

She was already progressed to the part actively dying so that she was already unconscious, which means in between two worlds, right? We're not always just in the body. That'll be something else I can address too. But, um, so I sat down next to miss Wilma. I held her hand, um, and I was facing the door of the hospital room, but I was holding her hands and I was centering myself, you know, getting ready with a prayer or an intention to kind of connect with her on a soul level.

[00:21:00] And all of a sudden, a little girl walks into the hospital room and she's in black and white. So when I see spirit in black and white, I know that that is respectively a time period between the 1920s and 1970 or so. Um, I think that's the same with black and white photography. So I think I must, my husband's a photographer, so I must like internalize that some in some way.

So, um, she looked to be about 10 or 12. She was dressed in her Sunday best. She had her hair twisted and pigtails. And I knew that that was also a time period.

Kara Goodwin: And you knew she was spirit because you were seeing her not even in full color.

Helen Gretchen Jones: black and white.

Kara Goodwin: Okay.

Helen Gretchen Jones: that's correct. And she walked over to me and took my other hand. So I'm holding elderly Mrs. Wilma in the hospital room in the hand of young Mrs.

Wilma in spirit form. And when she took my hand, the hospital transformed into this forest, like this massive trees, as far as you can see bigger than the room forest. [00:22:00] And, um, the way this feels like for anybody who hears the story, the way it feels like for me is if I were to ask you right now to close your eyes and imagine the beach, you know, to feel the sand beneath your toes and to hear the cry of the seagull and the waves lapping up on your feet.

If you're standing near the shoreline, um, you could imagine all of that. It's almost as if you're there, but you're also aware that you're right here right now. Sitting in your chair, listening to this, you know, so you're aware that you're in two places at once and that's what it feels like. So it could feel almost like a memory or a recall or it's an overlay of information over your physical view.

That's my experience. So to summarize, Mrs Wilma wanted to point out the beauty of this one tree in this forest, how the roots of Spread out underground and every single root is its own life and every root has more root branches branching off of it All these other little tiny roots and [00:23:00] all those roots are their own lives and up the trunk We go to branches and every branch is its own life Forming more branches and every branch has leaves and every leaf is its own life and but really it's all part of this one tree and then go back even further it's all part of this one forest and go back even further so it was all connected and so she had this real drawn out teaching that we are all connected we are all one and every single individual leaf believes it's its own life every branch believes it's its own life.

And really it's all one and this was an important teaching for her because throughout her life she had for a lot of her childhood she was segregated based on race and here at the end of life separated from her family and dying alone. So this whole overarching theme for her was being separate. And so, um, this was something that she taught me.

The only person in the room with her at the time who was observing, um, her final breath was a whole teaching [00:24:00] around oneness and that we are all connected. So that was one shared death experience. That was really beautiful and transformative for me. I've had others, but that one was a really nice

Kara Goodwin: beautiful. And then were you there when she actually transitioned? Like that, was it around that same time that she,

Helen Gretchen Jones: Yes. I was there for three hours, but yes, it was. Um, I'm trying to think if we were there, I think it was the whole, about approximately three hours. Cause you know, the ships are three hour shifts and it was about the whole length of the

Kara Goodwin: all right, right. through these experiences of a, particularly the shared death experiences, but also with your guides and this strong connection that you have with the other side. Is your understanding of the nature of existence and what else is happening beyond the physical?

And what awaits us when we're finished with this physical [00:25:00] experience?

Helen Gretchen Jones: So, you know, I sit with my team in spirit and I, you know, ask them the big questions like that. And I, and I write down our channel, the information that comes through. And, um, I know they have to break it down from my little human mind to try to understand. But essentially, um, we are, what they've led me to believe is, Or what I understand so far, that can change as they build and layer information, but what I understand so far is that we are just one minute part of ourselves.

This human Gretchen is one fragment of my over, large over, uh, I don't know, large soul over soul. I don't know what you would call it. My, my higher soul, my higher self. So this is my one little part of me that's expressing and like the Eastern analogy, that old Eastern analogy about the ocean and it has the waves come up and they [00:26:00] return to the ocean.

It's like the ocean is my higher soul. And I have all these personalities that contribute to the one soul or, you know, higher soul. So, um, but we are limitless. And I. think based on the information that they are giving me is that we can connect to people who are deceased to people who are still alive. I, you know, like if I wanted to go and connect to you on a soul level tonight after we end this podcast, I suppose I could, we're all connected and I would go in and I would just connect to you on a soul level.

You don't have to wait to connect to someone after they transition, you know, or, you know, I know mediums do that all the time, but you can do it yourself too. And we are limitless. We can do so much. So when we sit here and we think about, Oh, there's so much I want to say to that person, but they won't hear me do it on a soul level, connect to them in that way.

You don't have to say it with your human words. [00:27:00] So I feel like because we're all connected, the, the, the whole point of our existence here and our little personalities, I think is to just live and to experience and to have all these different Choices that we get to make. I mean, we can have emotions and feelings, good, bad, angry, love, all of it.

And we get to do it. And that's one reason we come here. But overall, we know that we're all connected and that we're all one and that we can connect to each other at any point. In a body, out of a body. It doesn't matter.

Kara Goodwin: That's beautiful. And I know that it's really easy for you at this point to connect at the soul level. Is there anything that comes to mind if there are people who are listening who think that sounds fantastic, but I don't know how to connect at the soul level. How would I even do that? Do you have any kind of tips that people can explore for opening themselves up in a bigger way that way?

Helen Gretchen Jones: Yes. So I actually have some friends who [00:28:00] insist they cannot connect. So we try different things. Um, I'm very visual. So using your imagination for someone who is visual visual is a very good way to get started because using your imagination is a form of creation. It utilizes the part of the brain that allows you to create something.

Once you start that energy, the moving of creating, you start to move into the slower brainwaves of creating. And when that happens, that's a doorway, those slower brainwaves. Because the brain kind of lets go, drops those walls a little bit, and it leaves room for spirit to come in with, um, inspirations. or a connection of some sort.

And when we're creating, we recognize that we're always creating here on this earth. We get to create our experiences based on our journeys and our choices, but we co create it with spirit. We co create it with our team. So if you're visual start by imagining what you believe or would like for. You know, [00:29:00] the person you want to see or a space you'd like to visit your happy place.

I love to envision a waterfall next to a forest with light dappling through the leaves. When I go there, it brings me to a centered place. And then I just welcome in a spirit. I'll just say, and then I don't dismiss it. I write it down, whatever it is. And the more you practice, the more you start to discern what messages are coming through for you are as accurate as you would hope them to be.

Um, for someone who is not as visual, this is where, um, people who are really in their bodies. I find this to be athletes, um, people who love to run, people who love to work out and move their bodies. It can be a lot harder. They find, I find they find appreciation in nature, but not in the connecting in the traditional way.

Um, my husband's super not spiritual. But when he takes pictures of the sunset, for example, which is all the time, and it really slows down our day sometimes, but he shifts into a whole [00:30:00] nother space, you know, of awe and inspiration. And this is where he connects to the divine. You know, and sometimes when he stares at it long enough, he'll come up with an idea.

That's all his own, but he's like, you know, maybe we should try this. And whether you think it came from spirit or comes from yourself, it doesn't matter. It's all coming from the one source. You know, we're all connected in that way. So don't maybe put a. a hardcore definition that it has to come from some other voice from outside me somewhere or anything like that.

Just allow the flow of whatever's coming in, whatever inspiration you're feeling to just be divine in itself and allow that and follow that excitement.

Kara Goodwin: love that. Yeah. Thank you. It's, I love the connection with, um, With the imagination, how you began it, because I know for me, like I am, I am historically a really left brained person. At least I lived my life in a very left [00:31:00] way, in a very left brain way for a long time, and that I valued my intellect so much, but at the expense of intuition and that right brain kind of free thinking. And it's been this hurdle. It's been this challenge for me to, is something like to, I always wanted to define, is this real or is it the imagination, you know, and it had to be one or the other, and I had to really learn to lessen it and to appreciate my imagination because the way that I began my spiritual understanding was like, if it's my imagination, it's not real.

And so I was like, get the imagination out of here. I want real stuff. But when you're dealing with spirit, it's not tangible. It's not black and white. And that you, you have to approach it, or at least I've had [00:32:00] to, I've had to approach it with a more open, playful, creative heart and, and mind and, um, and allowing myself to entertain things where it's like, well, This could be true.

This, or you know, this could be factual. This could be my imagination, or it could be something in between. My imagination may be playing a role to show me some truth, and it's just become much, uh, You know, much more blurred in terms of it's like it can be such a catalyst and a gateway. And, um, so I often am encouraging people to resist the urge to label.

Like, is this true? Is this the imagination, you know, it's like, use the imagination, embrace it. Don't see the imagination as this, you know, the enemy. It's the opposite of truth, you know?[00:33:00]

Helen Gretchen Jones: Right. And you can, you can make, it's like it's make believe so it must not be real. Yeah. But I think spirit works with that. It's like handing them clay and then they can inspire The images that come through after that, if you're allowing yourself to

Kara Goodwin: Yeah. I love that. Well, Gretchen, this has just been amazing. I've loved connecting with you. Please tell people how they can find you, find your book, remind us what your book is called and how they can connect with you further.

Helen Gretchen Jones: the book is on Amazon, it's called healing whispers from spirit guides. And, uh, my website is www. helengretchenjones. com.

Kara Goodwin: Beautiful. Well, thank you so much. This has been wonderful.

Helen Gretchen Jones: It has been wonderful. We made it through all the

Kara Goodwin: We did. I'm, I'm proud of us. Thank you so much.

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