390. Paranormal Mysteries: Supernatural Beings in Nature: James Szubski

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Kara Goodwin: Welcome to the meditation conversation, the podcast to support your spiritual revolution. I'm your host, Kara Goodwin, and I enjoyed every second of listening to James Shabooski's

accounts of the incredible paranormal experiences he's had living and working in the Columbia River Gorge in the state of Washington.

We talk about the clickitate at ape cat, Sasquatch and UFOs. He has a cool video footage that he shares. So if you're listening to the audio podcast, you may want to zip through the video version later so you can see those images, but he does a great job of describing what we're looking at for those who aren't able to see the video.

I also just love James's perspective of how these mysterious phenomena don't need to be frightening, even though they're so unusual.

James is the chief operating officer of Margie's outdoor store located deep within the Columbia River Gorge [00:01:00] in Washington state. In 2022, his store initiated a paranormal reporting program, which has now received well over 360 reports of strange activity in the gorge area. James is a former volunteer search and rescue EMT, a wild land firefighter, a mountain guide, and a highly decorated us army

infantry veteran.

He currently volunteers his time as the leader of the click attack, ape cat research team. So we'll get into this in just a second. I am so excited about the Sedona Ascension retreat, March 14th to the 16th, 2025. I can't wait to see amazing guests such as Bashar, Robert Edward Grant, Billy Carson, William Henry, and previous Meditation Conversation guests like Adam Apollo, Psychic Lawyer Mark Anthony, Alan Steinfeld, and Vivian Chaveau.

Plus so many other amazing guests. Use code Kara Goodwin five for 5 percent off your [00:02:00]ticket. I hope to see you there. Well, welcome James. I am thrilled to have this discussion. I can't wait to dive into this. Thanks so much for being here.

James Szubski: It's a pleasure to be here. Thank you so much for having me on.

Kara Goodwin: So I, I'm so excited. We're going to dive into your experience with all of these strange activities that are happening in the Columbia River Gorge area. So let's talk about, uh, the types of encounters that have been reported there. If you can just kind of lead us into what, what has life been like in this area for you.

James Szubski: You know, we have had, um, more than 350 reports in the store, and it's everything from Sasquatch to UFOs to glowing orbs. There's this creature we call the

Kara Goodwin: I'm listening

James Szubski: heh

Kara Goodwin: you say, I'm like, Oh my God, I'm so excited. Sorry to interrupt you, but this is so cool.

James Szubski: Yeah, there's this creature here that I have never heard of anywhere else.

We call it the click attack cat. Um, and it is this enormous black panther [00:03:00] creature that people have been spotting over 120 reports of that alone. Uh, there are portals, um, there's, uh, people have reported, um, missing time and spatial displacement. I've actually had that experience myself out here and, um, to sort of understand what's going on, this is all going on in an area called the Columbia River Gorge.

And it basically, we're out here in the Pacific Northwest. Northwest, uh, the Columbia River is the largest river in North or South America that flows into the Pacific Ocean and it separates, um, Washington state from Oregon state. We're approximately an hour east of Portland, Oregon, and my store is in a little town called BINGE In Washington, there's 773 people who live

there.

Kara Goodwin: Oh my gosh.

James Szubski: yeah, so

Kara Goodwin: Wow.

James Szubski: But this place is one of the most stunningly beautiful places in the world. In fact, back in the 80s, in a rare bipartisan move, uh, Congress designated as the nation's first [00:04:00] national scenic area, which means that it's basically a national park, but people can live in and have businesses here. so it enjoys many of the protections the National Park does, but, um, it's a place where you can live. Um, and so what's unique about the Columbia River is it is basically at sea level, but it runs through the Cascade Mountains. And so you can go from the river at sea level to 3000 feet and less than half a mile in some areas. these

Kara Goodwin: That makes my calves tired. Just thinking about that.

James Szubski: Um, and so, um, the western half of the gorge is sort of the wet side of the mountains, and it is a classic brooding, moody, mysterious Pacific Northwest rainforest. have over 90 waterfalls. Some of them are over 600 feet tall, um, you've got these deep forests and streams and rivers. Um, you've [00:05:00] And a very rocky and rugged terrain with deep forests, um, and volcanic mountains.

So within 35 miles of my store, there are three strata volcanoes. Um, Mount Hood, uh, which is a famous Bigfoot sighting area, uh, Mount Adams, which is associated with so many UFO reports. In fact, the first UFO report in America, the Kenneth Arnold sighting back in 1947, uh, the UFOs he saw flew. Uh, directly to Mount Adams and then there's Mount St.

Helens, which famously erupted in May of 1980. these are all 10, 000 foot plus mountains. Um, and then east side is in the rain shadow, and that is, um, like a desert type of terrain. And so it is austere and beautiful and spiritual in many ways. And there you'll find desert mesas with a flat top and the steep sides. Um, there are tons of places where the native Americans have etched petroglyphs into the stones. Um, [00:06:00] and it's got a whole different kind of vibe to it. Basically, I live in, uh, Skamania County, sort of on the wet side, and my store is on the east side, and I spend, you know, about 30 minutes driving to work every day, and I go from the rainforest, uh, almost to the desert, so a, um, I'm a former, uh, Infantry soldier, a wild land force firefighter and a search and rescue EMT. so I love adventure. And this place is just, um, you couldn't ask for a cooler area. And, uh, just in terms of there's, you know, whitewater rafting and mountain climbing and rock climbing and hiking and all the different things. Um, and so it is a stunningly beautiful, um, in the, in the springtime. The hillsides and the mountains are a riot with flowers, so there's tons of wildflowers out here then in the fall right now we've got some areas where there's this beautiful autumn foliage and it looks like the volcanoes are [00:07:00] alive as you know, you see these reds and yellows and everything, um, and when, uh, my mother in law Passed away a little over three years ago, my wife and I inherited her businesses and moved down from Seattle, which was about, uh, you know, if you think about that, it's probably about 4000 people per square mile out here populated areas.

It's about 10 people per square mile. And so, um, it's a. Um, we felt like we had won the lottery, uh, in many, many ways. And so one of the stores, um, was kind of an outdoor store. we had to do some sprucing up to it. I changed the logo and I'm kind of a whim. I put a Sasquatch in our logo. it wasn't long before people started coming in and spontaneously telling us stories about strange experiences they were having in the wild reaches of the gorge. And people would talk about UFOs and they would talk about Sasquatch and things even stranger than that. And I found it just [00:08:00] fascinating, um, that this place could possibly be Populated with, you know, these wondrous phenomenon. And I was really curious about it. So I put up a big sign in the window and it said file paranormal reports here.

And it listed Sasquatch sightings and UFOs and Fae encounters and ghosts and everything like that. And what I wanted to do was create. A safe place for people to talk about their extraordinary experiences and I gave really special instructions to all the staff. And by the way, the staff loves it. This is the most fun part everybody's job. I mean, if you think about it in 3 years, we've had over 360 reports and that's like. Every two or three days, a new Scooby Doo mystery walks through our front door, and we get to, you know, to people about it, and, um, and so the instructions that I gave were, we are going to take everyone seriously.

We're going to believe the witness. We're going [00:09:00] to treat them with respect, like they are adults that have, um, have something to say. and here we are, you know, uh, a little, but three years into the program and we've earned the trust of the community it's gotten to the point. I mean, um, where I'm pretty well known in the community and people will stop me in the grocery store or at a restaurant or, you know, the post office or whatever, and say, Hey, James, I got to tell you about this amazing experience.

I had. And, um, what my experience of all this has been is people are sharing with me things that their family has laughed at them about. And so they clammed up about and haven't talked about for 20 years. And I'm like the second person they told the first person just laughed at them. what I didn't expect, but is one of the most satisfying and beautiful parts of this whole experience is this genuine connection that you make with somebody when they're finally believed.

You When they've had this remarkable experience, they don't have [00:10:00] any kind of way to fit it into their model of reality. um, you can be there and you can be supportive of them and talk about it seriously and know that you're not going to get laughed at. We're not going to think that you're crazy. Um, and those human connections have been surprisingly satisfying and enjoyable and, and deeply meaningful to me. And it's been like sort of the. The hidden treasure of the whole experience. so, um, I, you know, of course we knew that if we put ourselves out there as we're going to believe the witness, I expected to get, you know, people pranking us and occasionally, you know, we'll get a report signed by Seymour Butts and it's like, okay. You know, no harm, no foul, like I'm not a, I'm not pretending to be a scientist doing some type of scientific work here. I'm fascinated by the anthropological part of this. These are the stories that the people who live in [00:11:00] this area. tell each other. This is a part of the natural culture that's here. I think it's part of what makes this place so unique and beautiful and interesting. it's not like there's a Starbucks and a Walmart on every corner here. Um, in fact, in Klickitat County, it's 2000 square miles and there is but one stoplight. In the whole area. so, know, you can imagine that it's kind of a, its own, it's one of the last bastions of American culture that hasn't been homogenized, um, uh, through corporate America. um, it's really fun to have a family owned business. You know, we're now the second generation running these businesses and the people who visit the area, obviously. It being as beautiful as it is here, uh, and there's so many outdoor adventure opportunities that a lot of, uh, folks come in as tourists or visitors and they have these unusual experiences too. the world here filled with wonder in a [00:12:00] very real way. like what a gift, um, to have found

that.

Kara Goodwin: I'm going to put up a picture of this is a map that I drew. I illustrated this map of the Columbia River Gorge. kind of shows, uh, you know, the, the Western half is green. That's where the Pacific Northwest rainforest is. Uh, the Eastern half is this tan color, is where the deserts are. and you can see the three mountains that are primary to and all of this. Beautifully articulated land landscape with all of these unique areas in it.

 like I said, what fascinating was. Obviously, we said there's a couple of people who are joshing around and okay, great. No problem. And it's kind of fun. and then there are some people who clearly are working through some mental health issues. Um, but really, it's a very tiny percentage.

James Szubski: I thought it would be much, much higher. Like, I thought, oh, we'll get a lot of hoaxers and a lot of jokesters and people who are, you know, clearly working through some [00:13:00]legitimate health issues. But it turns out, no, like, I would say easily. 98 percent of our reports are just ordinary people having extraordinary experiences. And to me, like that's, um, really interesting. And I think what happens is that people want to normalize their extraordinary experiences. let me give you an example. So this click attack, ape cat creature, um, uh, gentlemen came in the store close to closing time and he, he had known my mother in law and she had helped them out with his family.

It was something, so kind of a friend of a family it took him about 45 minutes to work up the courage to tell me about his experience. And he was out orienteering. So this is using a map and compass and, you know, trying to find your way in the wilderness. And. He had, uh, he was in an area called the Buck Creek area, about four miles west of my store. And, um, he noticed the compass was acting weird. [00:14:00] Now, by itself, that is not a big deal in the gorge. Um, the government issued maps out here, say, have bright pink letters on them that say warning, uh, magnetic readings are, inaccurate in this area. And the reason why is that our geology is incredibly unique and have magnetic anomalies everywhere.

And I'll talk more about that. Um, and so he was orienteering, um, off trail, is acting weird. And then he looked up and across the creek was this big black cat. And, um, you know, like I said, I have a lot of experience in the wilderness, uh, decades of it. And, um, he described this encounter with this cat and he said, well, it was very muscular it had black fur and it was just looking at me.

It was completely unafraid of me. it had a long tail. as he was describing it, uh, some flags are going off in my head. have cougars out here. They're [00:15:00] not that uncommon, rarely seen, uh, cougars are very elusive creatures, but there's a few things that I know about cougars. One is they never have black fur. So cougars are normally a tawny color. um, I'm going to put up a picture of, of, uh, a render we have of this thing. And they're typically tawny color. Um, are, uh, normally about two feet tall at the shoulder. And the creature he was describing, um, was, I'm gonna if I can get myself over here. Creature he was describing was, uh, he said four to five feet tall at the shoulder. And, um, so that is way outside of the range of any kind of, uh, cougar. In fact, it's bigger than a tiger. Tigers are maybe three feet tall at the shoulder. And this creature he was describing was far in

excess of that

Kara Goodwin: Wow.

James Szubski: and also very muscular. And the other thing about cougars is they are terrified of humans and they will abandon a fresh [00:16:00] kill the, uh, just the sound of human voices, let alone a human standing there. And this thing was looking straight at him. And he said that the encounter lasted for nearly five minutes.

Kara Goodwin: Wow.

James Szubski: so he, you know, added a lot of detail to it. And, you know, I was asking him questions and, and then he paused and said, you know, James, the strangest thing was that the creature had a face that looked like a monkey. And, you know, it's one of those moments where my brain nearly broke. Like I couldn't imagine how that could possibly be the case. how could a cat have a face like a monkey? And it didn't make sense to me, but you know, Not the time to interrupt, it's the time to listen. And he described it as having, um, a, a no fur on its face, intelligent apelike eyes, and a snout. And, it's easy to imagine that there may [00:17:00] be, with the sighting, like the light may be weird or something like that. be sure, you know, now we've got 120 reports of this creature. about half of those reports describe it as having that enormous size. Everyone says that it's muscular black for a long black tail. Uh, everyone's, uh, but only about half the people say that it's that extraordinary four feet to five feet tall to shoulder, approximately 900 to 1300 pounds. And then a tiny fraction Um, tiny fractions say that it's got that face that looks like a monkey and I would say less than 10%. you know, it could be reporting errors. It could be we're dealing with two different creatures where it could be who, you know, if it's supernatural, it's shape shifting. I mean, I do not know what that component is. But fascinating, right? And so the next day I was talking to my staff and I said, Hey, we got this really cool report yesterday. Um, and one of my employees name is Missy and she is as honest as the [00:18:00] day as long. And she's the kind of person that. It feels uncomfortable playing practical jokes on her coworkers because it's kind of like lying and so it's not really cool for like, it just doesn't feel right about it. And as I was describing this creature, she started shaking and she was having this very strong emotional reaction to it. And I was watching her like, what is going on with Missy? I've never seen her respond to any of these kind of reports like that. And she said, my God, James, I've seen that thing myself. she was driving to work one morning at dawn through Klickitat Canyon. And she saw this enormous black cat creature. Um, it had a long black tail. She didn't get a look at its face, but she actually stopped her car to watch it. And it was so extraordinary that she wondered if she should get out of her car and talk to the people who lived in the homes nearby to warn them that there's this gigantic predator right outside of their house. Uh, she eventually elected not to do that because she was worried that they would think she [00:19:00]was crazy. And it was a good thing she felt that way because when she told her family about it, they all kind of laughed nervously and said, no, no. Um, you probably just saw a cow. So, so think about it. creature that she described, the nearest analog to its size was a

cow.

Kara Goodwin: Wow.

James Szubski: a gigantic cat, right? so this is a grown woman and they're telling her that she doesn't know the difference between a cat and a cow. And that is the problem that many, many witnesses encounter. They've had this extraordinary experience.

Their family and friends. want to normalize it. It is a completely natural human reaction to extraordinary. Information like life is hard enough. You don't need giant black cats running

around in it. Right.

Kara Goodwin: Well, and we try to find context within our own lives, right. To help us understand, like, well, it can't be something that I've, I'm [00:20:00] decades into my life journey. Now there can't be a new thing. I don't know about, you know,

James Szubski: And, you know, I would never want to rob anyone of their defenses, you know, like that's just unkind. There's no reason don't need to do that. for those of us who are exploring and are curious and fascinated, um, like. You don't need to insult us, um, for you to have your, um, Your defenses.

Kara Goodwin: Right. Well,

James Szubski: so it would sort of be like if you were in your hometown and you saw a red Lamborghini drive by. A rare, but extraordinary thing. And you told your friends about it. They said, well, Lamborghinis aren't kind of the thing you see around here. What you probably saw was just a red minivan. and so what I think we even do to ourselves is we turn Lamborghinis into minivans all the time. And I think, you know, after talking to, like I said, hundreds of people have confided in me with these extraordinary experiences

what I think happens is that we talk [00:21:00] ourselves out of extraordinary experiences, and I know that, you know, um, when I was meditating a lot, um, I started seeing auras and, uh, different intensities of light, um, around people and different, um, Geologic features, I talked myself out of it.

Um, like, oh, this can't be happening. It's something wrong with my eyes. Um, and it's kind of a, you're robbing yourself because the world is filled with wonder and there is it. Extraordinary things happen to ordinary people all the time. And when you allow there to be space, when you don't rush in and fill that unknowingness with something you think you know, that is when your world transforms. Like I said, I told you, I feel like we won the lottery. I live in a magical, wondrous world. Um, and It's because I have I've allowed things [00:22:00] through the gates and there are some things that people report, like

 So a guy sent me a picture from his trail cam and it looked for all the world like a black cat leaping, but it was weird because it was like only a second of time. And you know, the, the images before and the images after it didn't have this black cat leaping in it. when I did image analysis on it, it turned up, Oh, this is actually a crow. And the way that it was positioned in that moment of flight gave it the appearance of a cat leaping. And so, yes, it's true that there are times when, uh, you're enthusiastically mistaken, or, you know, it's, uh, and it's important to do that kind of work. But, um, with this cat, now we have had so many reports, including senior law enforcement officials, local leaders, of people have seen it. People have seen it, um, the reports go back all the way to 1968. We have reports of it with cubs, so younglings, so we know that it's whatever it is. It's a reproducing population out here. you know, put up a picture. the [00:23:00] gorge is one of the most important archaeological sites in America. And people have lived here since before the pyramids were built in Egypt. so we go back. 15, 000 years in the gorge. there are petroglyphs on the walls. And, um, it turns out that I may have actually seen this cat myself, but I didn't know it because it came before any of the reports. So I'm going to put up a petroglyph. here and I hope you

can see this.

Kara Goodwin: Oh, wow.

James Szubski: area of the desert called the Horse Thief Lake and Horse Thief Butte. so Horse Thief Butte looks like a classic desert mesa, steep sides, flat top, and it's right alongside the Columbia River. And the road, it looks like this impenetrable monolith. But when you get close to it, has riddled with a labyrinth of hidden passageways and natural amphitheaters, and there are petroglyphs on the wall. It was a site of profound spiritual importance to the Native Americans of the area. [00:24:00] And, um, there's a, so there's the, there's the mesa, and then there's this sort of flat plain, and then another drop into a lake called Horse Thief Lake. And then on the far side of the lake are all these petroglyphs. And what we're looking at is what looks like a strange cat like creature with wavy water lines underneath its head. a crack that goes to those waterlines. and so I was in Horse Thief's Butte, uh, climbing around in the rocks and I was looking down into the river.

It was near sunset and I saw this very large dark furred creature swimming around in the lake. there were, ducks and things like that on the water. So I could kind of get a sense of its size. And it was, Easily bigger than a man, but smaller than a car. You know, I was probably 700 yards away and I really couldn't make it out. it was sort of patrolling the center of the lake and it would submerge from time, uh, for up to five minutes and then come back up. And I could not figure out what the heck I was looking at. I had [00:25:00] never, uh, seen a creature that big swimming. We have bear here, black bear mostly. and there's swimmers, but they're not that big and they never submerge for five minutes.

And they're typically point to point swimmers. They're not going to patrol around the center of the lake. that's another creature that might be that big, but point to point swimmer, not a submersible. so what the heck am I looking at? And, um, Since all these reports have come in, um, there was only one big black cat in North America.

It's a jaguar. are of the best, uh, riverine hunters in the world, and they can hold their breath for up to 15 minutes. They can swim a kilometer in the open ocean. They're extremely adept at river hunting. They can eat underwater. Um, they're remarkable creatures, uh, but their range is a thousand miles south of here.

So how one of those could have been an area, I don't know. And they're not, they're about the size of cougars. They're never that large. and so [00:26:00] this petroglyph got me really curious, like, what, there any kind of legends here? And I did find some Native American traditions that talk about, a race of supernatural, uh, Uh, protectors, uh, they're referred to as the Meshepeshu um, they're described as underwater Panther protectors. It's a race of creatures, uh, supernatural beings that live in the underwater realm. And when native Americans talk about the underwater realm or the sky realm or the earth realm, they're talking about something that has one foot in our reality and one foot in the spirit world. the most amazing thing about the Meshepeshu is they're described as looking like, you A big black panther with the face of a man. And I. And so that may be one of the places where this is coming from. This creature may have been here for thousands of years. don't know, but we do know that the petroglyphs seem to indicate that that is. And what's really fascinating to me is that [00:27:00] there are wavy water lines underneath this creature's head in the petroglyph image. So it's fascinating stuff. And, um, you know, how these things fit together. It turns out that in the fossil record, there is a creature that matches the size and weight Of the reported cliqueted ape cat, uh, this creature is a North American line. It lived here in Washington state. In fact, all over North America during the ice age, it's said to have gone extinct about 10, 000 years ago. Um, it's scientific name is the panther atrox and it was a cat, the biggest cat that ever lived. and it's reported size is four to five feet tall to shoulder weighing 900 to 1300 pounds. it's very well represented in the fossil record. So much so that we know that it is sexually dimorphic, which means the females are much smaller than the males. What I find fascinating about that fact is that Our reports are about 5 [00:28:00] percent of them say the creature is enormous and 50 percent say it's about a little bit bigger than a normal cougar. So anyway, it remains a mystery. I do not know where this thing came from, what it is. I do firmly believe the people who are reporting it, Are making honest reports. people say, yeah, I was driving by mountain St. Helens and the thing leaped into the road in front of me. It was as tall as the hood of my Jeep Rubicon, and then it leapt off into the forest

Kara Goodwin: So, So with like the, the man that you talked about that had the five minute encounter and his compass was going crazy, um, because I've heard you say like predator and it's huge and it's muscular and it's, heavy and all of these things, he was face to face with it for five minutes and then he was able to, Walk away and, and report it.

So are like, I'm [00:29:00] just trying to get, and then also you talked about protector potentially. So is there a sense of like friend or foe?

James Szubski: It's one of the most curious components of this whole story. have no reports of hostile encounters. there was one guy who shot at it with his 22 because he was, thought it was gonna, um, eat his goats. Um, but that is, like, as far as it goes, I have never heard a story where it, It actively threatens humans many, many, many stories of it being completely unafraid of humans.

Right. Uh, and like approaching them, walking towards them, never one where it is, um, in a hostile manner. And it's another part of the mystery to me. This is. Obviously, if it's just a biological creature, doesn't have any, you know, maybe it's an escaped exotic pet, or, you know, we, I mentioned earlier that there's this was an animal testing laboratory, part of the Hanford nuclear setup river is pretty good case [00:30:00] to be made that it might have escaped from their animal testing laboratory over there, but wherever it's, whatever it is, is not acting like a normal.

Um, I'm so convinced that this thing is real, that I am getting ready to offer a pretty big financial reward for anyone who can bring me footage that we can verify of it. Because I think that we have animal living here that is not currently recognized by science. um, you know, so who knows? Um, I, I'm kind of in love with the thing. Like, I think it is, love this notion that, um, that in our world, these Panther protectors are, afoot. And,

Kara Goodwin: I love that too. That's incredible. And, you know, we haven't gotten yet into Sasquatch, but, you know, with, uh, with Bigfoot. I, I don't know if it's like offensive to call Sasquatch Bigfoot.

James Szubski: Doesn't offend me.

Kara Goodwin: Okay. [00:31:00] I hope they're cool with it. Um, but there are often reports of telepathy with Sasquatch and that even though there, there may not be like, You know, verbal communication there.

People do receive messages or instruction. Um, have you, is that ever part of any of these reports? It's just interesting with the human or the more human head that maybe indicates that there are more humanoid or primate. Um, characteristics, and then you've also mentioned that there might be like a supernatural element to it.

Do any of them feel, or, or even just like a felt sense of like, I felt safe, or I felt protected, or I felt that, that there was animosity, or any, anything like that?

James Szubski: you know, um, we have had scores and scores of Bigfoot sightings. None of them have been hostile. Uh, the Native Americans here refer to them as the forest people, there are stories that they have treaties with the [00:32:00] Native American folks in the area for berry picking areas, in mushroom picking areas and salmon areas. And um, and those are these respective relationships that have existed for thousands of years.

 And I think that they're related in some ways, and so with the cat, we have had reports where people feel like they've been in the presence of something magical. Like that's a, that's the reported experience. Some people it's like, ah, scare the crap outta me. And, um, it jumped across the trail in front of my, you know, four wheel a TV. And, I never saw it again. And that was the whole encounter. Um, but for other people, especially like the guy who, who spent some time with it, like was a feeling of I am experiencing something extraordinary, you know, like you, um, and it wasn't. terrorizing kind of feeli I this is a talking about some of tho because they are often th [00:33:00] A lot of witnesses tell me is they have the feeling that they want to protect the Sasquatch or the ape cat. Like it, it elicits the emotion of not wanting to mess with this creature or have it be harried or, you know, have people come into conflict with it. Like they were, they're often not cagey about telling me they had the experience. They're cagey about telling me exactly where, because they don't want anyone else to go there and mess with the creature. Right. with a sense of protecting it rather than. anything else. so, Skamania County, which is where my home is, um, it was the first place in the world, first governmental body in the world to enact Bigfoot protection legislation.

And so, we take it pretty seriously out here. And if you shoot and kill a Bigfoot in Skamania County, and the coroner deems that it's a humanoid, You'll be charged with manslaughter. so there's this real ethic of, um, these are our forest [00:34:00] neighbors out here and. there's one guy who has seen 14 Bigfoot on his property at one time, and he has had numerous encounters.

He's brought in hair samples. And so like, and I've been to his place on a couple of different occasions. And, uh, I said, do you think that this is a biological creature or do you think it's some type of spiritual creature? said, well, it's definitely a biological animal. You know, it poops in the woods and it, you know, leaves footprints and, you know, he's seen it, you know, take down other prey and stuff like that. Uh, he's heard them give birth. He's seen the younglings, you know, he's got a whole range of different colors of their fur. And then he'll say, but they do seem to have the ability to do limited teleportation. so like they'll be traveling away from you. then a blink of an eye, they'll travel 75 yards and how they cover that distance seems like it's some type of impossible physical feat to be able to do. And what it seems like, and this is [00:35:00] supported by a lot of the Native American traditions they have the ability to influence people's minds in some way. The mechanism is unclear to anyone who tells me this story, but I've had experiences like this myself. And so a lot of times there's one area out here. the Monte Cristo National Natural Preserve. The locals just call it Monster Mountain because there are so many Bigfoot sightings in this area. And they will have, you know, the classic thing is to have rocks thrown. And you know that, okay, that's definitely not, you know, a bear or any other kind of animal, um, to be able to throw something is different. there are stick knockings. Um, there are people who'd be out there, you know, panning for gold or whatever. And they'll hear like three of these creatures communicating. Um, and they'll seem to have different personalities talking about the people that are, you know, having the experience in a language they don't understand. Oftentimes, [00:36:00] people will say, yeah, I was traveling back to my car and I was, you know, a two hour hike and it seems like five minutes past and I found myself, you know, 50 yards from the trailhead, where my car was. so there seems to be this ability to befuddle the mind in some way. And I had this experience myself. Um, and it, it kind of, you know, Threw me for a loop. Um, it really was a remarkable thing. So we have, this area out here, on a lot of maps, it's called the big lava bed. Uh, we call it broke leg borrows. It's basically, a ground level volcano started spewing out lava 8, 000 years ago, and it created this giant jumbled mass of filled an entire mountain Valley.

It's about the air is about the size of the Island of Manhattan, so you get a sense of scale for it. And this place, uh, compasses don't work there. Um, [00:37:00] and cell phones don't work there. And, you know, I have been a professional land navigator since I was a teenager, with the military. And I am. as a search and rescue EMT, being able to navigate in the woods, people's lives depend on it. And so I'm, that's one skill that I am not bragging when I say I am amongst the best, uh, at that. And I don't remember ever being lost, like, It's something that just doesn't happen to me. And when you do this, you know, and people's lives are on the line, you have a whole bunch of things that you're doing when you're in the wilderness areas. Um, you know, you're, I've been in an area, I, it's just like me seeing a face. Like, um, I will. automatically recognize it again, and you're keeping track of your pace and landmarks and the position of the sun. And there's a whole set of things that are processing in the background while you're doing it. Well, I was in this lava bed. Um, we've had some strange reports in the area of Bigfoot and a number of other things [00:38:00] out there. And oftentimes the lava will flow through an area that of the lava will harden and the lava will flow through and leave a like cavity called a lava tube. And we have over 600 caves in the area. And so there's a lot of these lava tubes. And then sometimes those lava tubes will collapse and they'll create these trenches. So I had found this trench. Let's just imagine for the sake of simplicity, it's a north south trench. my drone out there, flew up and down this trench a bunch of times. cool, interesting, unique features. I walked to the end of it. I took a I turned west and I walked another 400 yards and I found another trench. Um, and I thought, oh, this is really cool. So I got out the drone again and flew it up and back and forth. And, um, like waking up from a dream, I realized that I was actually at the south end of the very first trench that I had been in. So what had happened was I had traveled [00:39:00] what I thought was meters, 800 yards, deeper into the lava bed, convinced that my navigational skills were doing what they always do. Keeping me aware of where I was and where I was going and where I should be. And like I said, like, as though I was waking up from a dream, I realized that I was in a place that I had already been basically the place that I had started. I had no knowledge of how I got there. And it really threw me for a loop. Like I have never been that turned around in the wilderness since I was a kid. You know, eight years old and I couldn't figure out, like, how in the heck did I get from way, way, way, way over there back to my starting point, a place that I had been in and studied and should have recognized, like, it would be like, if we turned off the screen for a second and we turned it back on. And you didn't recognize my face. Like that's how unsettling it was like, have [00:40:00] I met you before kind of a thing? And, um, so very, very And my initial response was what the heck just happened to me? Like, how could this possibly be that I got that turned around that I'm facing the completely wrong direction and I'm, you know, hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of yards away from where I thought I was. So that was the first emotion was like, what the heck, this is crazy. And then the second emotion was. If something didn't want me to go deeper into this forest was the most benevolent way I can imagine of bumping me back to start and saying, not today, son, this is not for you you don't need to be in this place.

And we're going to gently pick you up seamlessly, edit your memories put you back in a place of relative safely where, you know, you can get out, know, my car was just a hundred yards away and I could see it from this, the spot at the edge of the lava bed. Um, and like, that was, uh, [00:41:00] Just a, an astonishing moment for me.

Like it was kind of exciting because I've been hearing hundreds of stories from other people about these incredible experiences they were having. And then, then happened to me. And you know, how can you prove that you, you were confused in the woods or you got lost in the woods? It doesn't sound like a very dramatic story, but like I said, for me, with the, the amount of world class training that I have in this particular skill, the other weird thing was that what I thought was 15 minutes had passed, and it really was two hours. And so very weird experience. And so this notion that these beings may be able to influence our minds, is certainly something that I, I have firsthand knowledge of, and it seems like there may be something to

it.

Kara Goodwin: That's fascinating. Well, and I, I. I'm curious about the same sort of question as with the ape cat, with the Sasquatch, when you, uh, have accumulated these reports from people, are [00:42:00]they always friendly? Does it vary? Because I've, I had a guest on recently,

 Dr. Simeon Hein.

James Szubski: Oh, yeah,

Kara Goodwin: Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. I had him on just a couple of days ago and we did get to talk about Bigfoot a bit and, um, and I had a similar question for him about, because I, I'm always drawn to the friendly stories, the protector stories, the, the, you know, leaving offerings and that they, they want to interact in the, the multidimensionality of them.

Um, And so, but I, but I don't know, I mean, I'm not an expert in any of this. I just enjoy hearing about it. So, um, what flavor are the reports in that term, in those terms?

James Szubski: anytime you see. enormous predator. There is a instant like, whoa, this one gal, she was camping with her family and she got out in the middle of the night to go pee out of the [00:43:00] tent and she saw the cat standing on a log, you know, so it's flank was to her. And she was like, What is this thing? And it hopped off the log and started walking in her general direction. she was like, I'm out. She dove back into her tent with her family and no negative encounter happened the night. And then she showed me a picture of like, 5 of her family members standing on that log. She said, yeah, the creature was as long as all 5 of these people standing next to each other. And so. Her experience was, wow, what the hell is this thing? Like, you're not expecting to see this giant cat. but absolutely no, uh, no attack, no messing with you or anything like that. And, um, so we have a lot of people who just have this, The surprise of seeing a giant, you know, 1300 pound animal, um, that registers as predator in our lizard brains.

So, of course, that's a moment of, but, um, [00:44:00] the thing that is remarkable to me is that there are no. Hostile encounters. There are no moments where it attacks a

human being or

Kara Goodwin: the,

James Szubski: a human being

Kara Goodwin: and with the Sasquatch.

James Szubski: yeah, and so there are no reports of that either. And, um, you know, it could very well be that there is some type of. think about radio waves, right? You know, so if your car is tuned to country music, let's just say, you didn't know that you could change the channel and every day you drive around, it's country music and you think, Oh, this is reality country music. But there was also a radio signal for classical music.

And there's a radio signal for rock and roll music. And there's a radio signal for talk radio and everything else. because your tuner, is only set to country, that's the reality that you experience. And you believe, yep, this is all that there is. But if something happened to you and that electromagnetic tuner got adjusted [00:45:00] suddenly your world is the same, but instead of hearing country music, you hear classical music. That's an extraordinary moment, right? And it's not that these things don't exist, but It's just that you're not tuned to them. Right? I think that is what the nature of a lot of the phenomenon that we have out here is gorge. As I mentioned at the beginning, this incredibly unique electromagnetic environment. briefly, the river has been here for 20 million years. 17 million years ago, this giant fissure opened in the earth, the Idaho Washington border and trillions and trillions of years ago. Tons of lava poured out of it and flowed 300 miles all the way through the old Columbia River Valley to the ocean. These eruptions happened, I think, over 300 times and they built up the walls that are now the the gorge. So what [00:46:00] happened is, as that lava flowed, it would start to cool and all of the magnetic material in the rock would orient towards the earth's magnetic north pole. And then it would and harden and then it'll get locked.

And so that's the unique magnetic signature of that layer. we've got, you know, 15, 20 layers visible here in the gorge, a thousand years, 10, 000 years past this next lava flow comes through, but the earth's magnetic north pole has wandered in the past hundred years. It's 100 700 miles. And so that next layer, it's stuff orients to the new magnetic North Pole and locks in place. So you've got these layers, and each one of them has a unique magnetic signature to it. And so it creates this really unusual magnetic environment. So back in the 80s, there was a professor at Lord Tide University. Up in Canada, his name is Dr. Michael Persinger, and he did studies where he wanted to see what happened if you manipulated [00:47:00] magnetic fields around the human brain. Turns out in our brains, we have magnetite crystals, and they're housed in magnesomes. these are structures that lie alongside of our brain. Brain cells, they're highly concentrated in the hippocampus lobes and magnetite is one of the most magnetically reactive substances on earth. And there are over 5 million of these per gram of human brain matter. What happens is those little crystals in these sheaths, when they encounter magnetic fields, they begin to torque and they exert an influence on the human brain. In fact, they think this is how animals are able to navigate over long distances through a magneto sense. But what Dr. Persinger found was that he could induce like experiences, in a controlled way. Most often people reported a sensed presence, like there was something else in the room with them uh, a few of his subjects, [00:48:00] um, claimed to have met God in this particular experience. And so the helmet that he had created then became known in the media as the God helmet. Fascinating stuff to look up the God helmet, Dr.

Michael Persinger. The point is he was also able to do things like turn fear on and off like a switch. And so there's this physical mechanism. built into our brains, which is responsive to electromagnetic fields. And the gorge is this really complex, nuanced, electromagnetic environment. these lava beds are all about that, right? so, there may be this, thing that's happening where our electromagnetic tuner, our brains, are getting overloaded. Adjusted while people are here, which is why we are one of the most active paranormal hotspots in North America. It's not because stuff is here and it's nowhere else. It's because. People are getting their tuners adjusted [00:49:00] when they're here and they're able to see things. Now, the obvious question is, okay, so is this some kind of personal internal hallucination? And I don't think that's the case because we have photographic evidence of glowing orbs and UFOs. We have footprints, we have, you know, hair samples, and we have many, encounters where there are multiple witnesses. And so it's really difficult to say, okay, this person, is having the same hallucination as this other person. So I think, you know, and again, it's a fascinating citizen scientist project to sort of puzzle through is, is there something about this place is our tuners and allowing us to perceive things that are always present, not available to our normal sensory perception.

Kara Goodwin: That is fascinating.

 do you want to share any of the photos? Because you mentioned you've got photographic evidence of like the

James Szubski: So

Kara Goodwin: and

James Szubski: one of, the things that we [00:50:00] get many, many reports about is, um, glowing orbs. And these, um, sometimes they are more of a personal type of situation where they seem like they are like something you'd encounter in the forest. Other times they are, feel more like UFOs. Like their craft that are flying around. So this is taken of the gorge, an area called spring Creek hatchery. And I was fascinated by this beam of light that you can see coming down there. Well, I was snapping pictures and then this thing showed up and we know that this is not a lens flare because lens flares are typically perfectly circular. are monochromatic. So there's no information inside of them. And the halos that they produce are usually directional. And so this is a really. I was astonished that I was actually able to capture it on film because my wife and I have seen these, with our naked eye while driving. And we have [00:51:00] many reports of people who are driving and see these things as well. We know that they're not headlights because here's a truck and I think there's a car. definitely not some type of headlight phenomenon, not swamp gas. We can see the direction of light. A lens flare is going to come from, the light has to be behind the lens flare. So what this thing is, we don't know. Um, that's. One of the kind of things that people are reporting this is, um, this is what that broke leg borrows area looks like the area where I was had that strange experience. And you can see what a a wild, incredible kind of landscape. It is very articulated with all the broken rock. This is a picture of a UFO that was over Underwood Mountain. This was taken from 12 miles away. We did some image enhancement to it. And here, uh, you can see that there are no wings or rotors. Um, so it's a possible UFO. It [00:52:00] looks very much like the tic tac shaped UFOs that, uh, the Navy fighter jets captured on their gun cameras. so yeah, we have lots of stuff like that.

Um, that's, uh, this is an example of one of these lava tube caves. Um, and you can see how this fall foliage is just stunning. It looks like there's still lava in the cave right now, but the place, like I said, is It feels like living in a magical kingdom. This is the core of a ancient volcano, called beacon rock.

What's really neat is there is a trail that gets to the top of that. You basically climb up these, you know, switch back ladders and stuff like that to get to the top. really kind of a cool

thing,

Kara Goodwin: that looks a lot like the, is it devil's tower

James Szubski: Yeah,

Kara Goodwin: uh, and where Montana, maybe that is, or

James Szubski: Um, part of the fun for me is I took my, uh, Toyota FJ Cruiser and turned it into a paranormal, um, investigation vehicle. And so get to [00:53:00]

Kara Goodwin: awesome.

James Szubski: on this thing and, and, uh, follow up on all these reports. It's a, it's a ton of fun.

Kara Goodwin: That's so cool.

James Szubski: um, Just a couple of images. Again, this is Brookleg Brower showing the highly articulated landscape and you can see how these trenches here are sort of these collapsed lava tubes and how you can get your car right up next to it.

But once you're in it, there's no nothing else you can

Kara Goodwin: No road or anything. I do have one more question as we wrap up here in terms of, um, just with the landscape with the terrain and then with all of these paranormal things, particularly Sasquatch and the UFOs, do you do people go missing? In the area very often.

James Szubski: Yeah. In fact, in that Brooklyn Burrows, there's over two dozen missing folks and, uh, yeah, and some of the really mysterious, uh, circumstances. And so it's one of the things that, you know, it's a, it's a full on expedition level wilderness [00:54:00] area. And so there's all the classic natural dangers that you would find. Uh, and, you know, with this Brooklyn Burrows area, you can imagine there are hidden caves and. There's the opportunity for you to fall into a sinkhole into one of these caves and be found again. Um, but there are other stories that seem to have more than ever be found again. A lot of people, uh, I only know that. So the store is a very cheerful place. Uh, we have bright colors on the walls and we always have fun music playing and there's incense. Um, you know, we sell adventure gear, but we also sell like and divination boards and all that kind of stuff. But it was important for me to create a place where the energy was positive. Um, you know, if I'm inviting all this weirdness into the lives of my employees, one of the first lines of defense is having a high vibration kind of a place, you know, and so, you know, I'm very proud because the store has won 13 best of the

gorge awards,

Kara Goodwin: Oh my gosh.

James Szubski: yeah,

Kara Goodwin: Congratulations.

James Szubski: outdoor [00:55:00] outfitter and best place to take an out of town guest and best attraction and best. Gift store and best place to work. but a lot of that has to do with when I started, when we took over these businesses, I said, our number one North star is that this is going to be a joyful, healthy, and fun place to work. And anything that comes after that will be great. Uh, and it turns out that we've been incredibly successful, both with the awards and financially, and, um, you know, we're everyone's kind of favorite store and it's not by accident.

reason I bring it now is that we don't get a lot of super scary stories in the store. It's kind of bounces off. Like we're not a landing place for that kind of stuff. so we don't like when people think, Oh, my friend went missing.

I don't think it was paranormal. You know, that's not sort of where their mind goes to. And also because of the, the joy that we project a lot of the like type of stories.we don't hear about. And I think that that's kind of a [00:56:00] sort of a self selection kind of a situation.

You know, it's it, those stories may be out there, but just not a part of what we experience.

I can tell you the experience that I had where I get bounced out of going deeper into this place, and I can tell you, it is big enough that there could be seven Ewok villages of Sasquatches out there and no one would know, like, it is, you know, my, after I got over my initial befuddlement, like, complete flamboozlement of what had happened to me, the first thought that I had was, This was a very benevolent way put me back in a safe place.

Like that was like the, where my mind went immediately and that like, Oh, I was probed or had some kind of negative or hostile encounter where things happened outside of my own volition. was no, we need, we're going to protect you and we're going to protect ourselves and we're going to do this in this. I mean, loving and

gentle [00:57:00]

Kara Goodwin: Gentle. Yeah.

James Szubski: know, and, um, so that's my personal experience. You know, I think you're, you get what you bring a lot of times, right? And so if you're naturally a fearful person, um. going to color Your experience.

Kara Goodwin: Absolutely.

James Szubski: If people want to learn more about what we're up to, best place to go is Margie's outdoor store. com or just Margie's outdoor. We'll get you there too. Margie's outdoor. com. We are on Facebook

uh, we're getting ready to put up a podcast when that happens. I'll, I'll let folks know, but. If you are on our Facebook page or on our Instagram page, Margie's Outdoor Store, um, you'll get all the updates about all the cool stuff we're doing and get to, uh, we hope be able to invite people along in some of our investigations with, uh, some future filming projects that we got.

So,

Kara Goodwin: That's amazing.

James Szubski: subscribe, like, follow, and, um, when we start having some awesome content to share, you'll be the first to

know.

Kara Goodwin: That's amazing. And do you, does the store offer like [00:58:00] excursions and things like, like if somebody was like, I want to come and see, but can somebody show me around?

James Szubski: Well, we've got, um, the big map, which you know, we looked at earlier and that has the locations of many of our sightings on it. That's for sale in the store. We also have two guided like self guided tours. Uh, so we call them arcane adventure maps and they cover horse thief Butte area that I talked about that has the petroglyphs and that sort of miscellaneous. Mysterious and spiritual area out there. And another one of Beacon Rock, which was that volcanic core and some of the interesting things that have happened around that area. Again, you know, I'm trying to get this stuff out there, you know, I'm running a couple of businesses. And so it's the, my list of stuff that I want to do versus stuff I've actually been

able to

Kara Goodwin: Yeah.

James Szubski: um, out of balance right

now.

Kara Goodwin: well,

James, this has just been fascinating. Thank you so much for coming on and I can't wait to [00:59:00]have you back so we can talk about portals and, and so forth. So thank you very much for sharing your stories.

James Szubski: Thank you. It's been my pleasure.

Kara Goodwin: Thank you for listening to this episode of meditation conversation. I would be so grateful if you would take a moment and share this episode with someone in your life who would appreciate it. You're sharing helps to build momentum and make high vibrational content such as this more accessible and easier to find.

And I'd also be so grateful for you to subscribe to this content. Thank you for your support. And I look forward to the next meditation conversation. ​