353. The Possession That Ultimately Helped Heal My Relationships - Kirsten Rudberg

 [00:00:00] Welcome to the meditation conversation, the podcast to support your spiritual revolution. I'm your host, Kara Goodwin, and I love this episode with Kirsten Rudberg, host of the podcast bite sized blessings. She has such a beautiful spirit, and I really love the stories she shares. Have you heard of compassionate possession?

This was new to me and her experience with it is so powerful. Kirsten is a creative and author. She has an animated series on YouTube called murder of two about two crows who sit on a line and observe humanity as well as multiple other projects.

She is a panthen theist who believes that spirit or energy or God exists in all she can see and not see and that magic and miracles are real and present. So you're going to get a lot out of this episode and I'm excited to get going on it. But first [00:01:00] for you plant lovers out there, are you familiar with pure leaf?

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Kara Goodwin: Kirsten, I'm really excited to talk to you today.

Kirsten Rudberg: Me too. I'm really grateful you invited me on your show. I love listening to it and to be a guest is kind of the height of excitement for me.

Kara Goodwin: Oh, that's the, that's such a high compliment. Thank you so much. So tell us [00:02:00]about your journey that led you to where you are today with your spirituality being so prominent in your life.

Kirsten Rudberg: Oh, yeah. Well, I think it really did start when I grew up overseas and, you know, that wasn't really my choice. It was because my father worked for a company that did hydroelectric dams and irrigation systems for developing countries. And so, you know, of course he drags his family along. And, um, as a kid, I lived in Guyana in South America, and then we spent most of our time in Pakistan. And when you're a kid and you, first of all, get taken everywhere. I mean, we went to Sri Lanka. We went to Thailand, Bangladesh, Kashmir, all these places. And I was really taught or really led to witness and embrace other people's way of being, their cultures, their language. Their way of worship. I mean, it was kind of this feast for the eyes for a kid, but not only that, I [00:03:00] also went to a school with kids from all over the world. And if that isn't the biggest gift a child or a parent can give a child, I don't know what is because. I learned to play with everyone and invite everyone in. And so then we came back to the States and to say it was a culture shock would be the understatement of the century. And I thought to myself, what is going on? And I tell people it didn't help that my mother sent us to school on the first day. And this is outside of Chicago. So it's the Midwest sent us to school in our Pakistani clothes. Okay. That did not endear us to anyone. In that school or classroom, and then because it was such a culture shock for me, I had to repeat fourth grade again because I could not adjust. It was really challenging, disconcerting for me. I didn't feel like I had any balance in my life. And I didn't understand how I [00:04:00] was supposed to fit in. It was such an alien culture. Um, you know, fast forward all of this, because I grew up overseas, I've always been enchanted by the way, other cultures and, and places in the world, figure out who they are and their place.

So myths, folktales, fairy tales, how do humans create meaning? And it has been a big part of my life to investigate those avenues. Hence my podcast, of course. But it led me to going to seminary. I'm a panentheist, which means I think everything is conscious. Everything is sacred. Everything has a right to be kind of in adored and is enchanting. Everything has legitimacy in this world. So I went to seminary. It's a Methodist seminary in Denver, Colorado called I live school of theology, but I just felt called to do it. And because of that, everything in my life has kind of. You know, kind of [00:05:00] emanated from going to graduate school. So, yeah, I w I would say all of that, you know, my growing up overseas and just seeing all the beautiful ways people have of connecting with source, but then all the gorgeous ways people have of interpreting the world through folk, tale, fairy tale, and myth. I just wanted to learn more and I wanted to have a degree. That someone kind of, you know, said, Hey, you could talk about these things. You have some authority.

Kara Goodwin: I love that. And, you know, I, um, I relate to how, how much growth there is when we immerse ourselves in a different culture. Um, we just moved, we just, we moved back from Italy, um, three, no, six years ago. And my kids were like, I Seven and four when we moved there. And then when we moved [00:06:00] back, they were eight and 11.

So we were there and they, they were in the international school and they were really kind of, we were very much in the expat community. So they weren't as locally immersed as, you know, if they'd gone to Italian school, for example, but we were very, you know, I had very close Italian friends and, um, and even like our expat friends that we were closest to weren't American, they were French.

So it was, it, it just is a different, it's a different experience. And then we moved back to the Midwest as well, because I'm in, um, the Indianapolis area. So. Not far from Chicago, but, um, and it, it is, it's just that like coming it's, it's, it's, it's weird when your roots are here. So I don't know if you had, you had, did you have [00:07:00] any roots here?

Like had you lived here? Or always abroad before you moved to Chicago?

Kirsten Rudberg: I had a few months here and there, but nothing so that I remembered. It was when I was so young, I really didn't remember any of it. So no,

not really.

Kara Goodwin: Yeah, we did have roots, so they had experience living here, but it was like getting into the school system was just different and the, there's so much wrapped up in our identity in the culture, which I'm fascinated by, but it's so pervasive that we don't even realize it. So. It's just because it's what everybody is doing, how everybody acts.

And we, it's so, it's so running through our lives that we don't really step back and think about, is this, is, do I think this because my culture tells me to think this, you know, it's, it's like, we can be so blind to it, [00:08:00] but I remember so distinctly having one conversation with a group of moms when I lived in Italy, and it was about.

child rearing. It was about raising babies. We didn't have babies at that time, but they were just talking about the, the theory of cry it out, which is, um, when you just let your baby cry for a little while without. Going in and taking care, like without soothing it and you don't just pull the rug out from under it and like, you know, but it's like a gradual thing, but you, you know, it's hard to do because you have to listen to your baby and, and not, you know, I don't, I don't necessarily have an opinion about like, whether it's the right thing to do or not, but the point was they, the people I was talking to, they couldn't, they They couldn't even understand why you would want to.

And when I started to think about it, I was like, there's such a value there [00:09:00] on, no, let me say it a different way. In America, we have a big value on independence, and that is a foundational cultural imprint that's just so natural. I believe in my opinion, it's so much a part of who we are as Americans.

That we don't even question it. So it's like, of course, we want to raise our children to be independent. And, and that's kind of the thread where cry it out makes sense because you're, it's the self reliance we're teaching them that it's, that they have the tools within them and they don't always have to have something outside of them to help soothe them.

Kirsten Rudberg: Right.

Kara Goodwin: um,

That is not really a, the, the same value in the same way, doesn't exist in, in Italy, in my experience. Again, you know, I had this like four year very brief in one location, , so I don't [00:10:00] want to try to speak for everybody, but that was my observation, where it was like, no, as a family, we do depend on each other and it's okay if they don't think, you know, they could live their whole lives and not realize that they can do things without Mama.

That's, you know, I want them to know that I'm always there for them and I will always do everything, anything for them. And I don't necessarily care if they have a sense of independence. So that was like a really strong example for me, where it was like, we could talk about the merits of cry it out for, you know, the rest of the day and still never be able to understand each other because of that cultural.

So anyway, all of that to say, you know, the, the beliefs, cause you're talking about like the, the, um, the myths, the legends, the, you know, and, and the stories that we tell, and then, you know, our beliefs and everything, it's all [00:11:00] these things that make us who we are. That's who we are culturally, that you kind of need to step back to, you know, sometimes to really be able to wrap your head around it, you know,

Kirsten Rudberg: Oh, absolutely. And, you know, it wasn't really until I went to seminary and of course, took many, many classes that I understood. I mean, you would have think you would have thought that I would have realized this by then, but that location is such an essential part of every human being's kind of idea of who they are in the world. And, you know, reading books for a class, it really helped me to understand. When refugees are forced to flee their homeland or go somewhere that's unexpected, leave their homes, leave their churches, their worship, worship spaces, they're losing a lot more. Then just their homes, their brick and mortar homes.

They're losing the stories of who they are, their, [00:12:00] um, connection to place to location to the area around them and how they use that area to define themselves. So I totally agree. Absolutely. Yes.

Kara Goodwin: that's so fascinating. So I, I'd love to talk about compassionate possession.

Kirsten Rudberg: Oh, yeah.

Kara Goodwin: I know that this, um, changed your life while you were walking the Camino, which is on my, I don't know if I'd say my bucket list, I guess. I don't really have like a firm bucket list, but yeah, it is something that I want to do in the future is to walk the Camino.

Um, but tell us, tell us about your pilgrimage and compassionate possession.

Kirsten Rudberg: Oh, sure. Yeah. Okay. So I had never heard of this. I only discovered that there was actually a term for what had happened to me a couple years ago when I was living in Santa Fe. Okay. And so I have to back it up a little bit before I walk the Camino. And one, uh, I was [00:13:00]celebrating, I think it was my 40th birthday.

My brother or my sister and father had flown in to Portland, Oregon to celebrate with me. We'd gone up to Bend, Oregon. I was having a really hard time. I don't know if it was because I was turning 40 or I was depressed about that or what was going on, but I was beside myself. I hadn't slept for two weeks. I had a lot of other stressful things going on. So I was already prying for just being kind of open to whatever was going to happen and I love my sister and father very, very much, but I found myself. One day, and please know that I'm not giving myself an excuse for my behavior, but it is important to understand with the story that's going to happen.

I'm going to tell a little later on. So I found myself at breakfast with my partner at the time, my sister and my father. And I went outside to walk around for a little bit. So starting to have a little bit of anxiety. And then I came back in and walked up to the table. And this was the first time this had [00:14:00]happened to me in my life.

Okay. I had a distinct feeling of my consciousness being split, and part of me, the part that was still me, I remember thinking, Oh my gosh, what's happening? And then this other thing came into me and said something to my sister that was so awful and mean and terrible and out of context for what was going on and really inappropriate. Well, the conscious part of me was like, What did you just say? What is going? Oh, my gosh. And to say that it ruined the trip was the understatement of the century. And, and you have to know that I cried for months afterwards because I didn't understand what happened. The whole thing was so confusing. It wasn't me, but it had come out of my mouth.

I was distraught. I was distraught. I thought I was gonna have to go into a mental hospital. I was [00:15:00] devastated, devastated. And yeah, they're, they went home and they were not happy. And so I basically, you know, went on with my life and, um, about a year later I was at my work and it was very, very early in the morning and about 30, and there was a gentleman sitting at the end of the counter and he's the only person in the, in the restaurant and I have a coffee and he won't talk to me and I'm like, Hey, if you're here this early in the restaurant, you have to be polite. I'm here. It's grim. We all know it. It's early, but hey, we have to talk to each other. So as I approached him, I mean, he was so grumpy as I approached him. I saw he was reading a book and I said, Oh, what book are you reading? And once again, it was something stepped into me because the conscious part of me thought, Oh my gosh, that thing is happening again. [00:16:00] And he said, the customer said, Oh, it's a book on math and logic. And then I started speaking. And I remember thinking while I was speaking, I don't know how this sentence ends, something said, Oh, do you think math is invented or discovered? And I just stepped back and then it was gone. And he just, you know, then we had this great conversation that just took off to the races.

And, and I thought, okay, that was weird. What, what just happened? And. He left and I was sad because I was like, what a great conversation. But then he came back the next day and he said, I'm coming back. Cause I have to tell you something really bizarre. And I said, okay, oh, I'm it's good to see you again. And he said, no, no, no, no. 10 seconds. Before you came over and asked me that question, I just finished five pages on whether math is invented or discovered. And so you came up to me and you asked that, and he said my jaw dropped. [00:17:00] And then we began this friendship, just, we began this really beautiful friendship based on this really bizarre occurrence that had happened in our lives. And, so all this happens, okay? And I'm still wrestling with what's going on. Why did that happen with my dad and sister? Why did I say that to my sister? It took years to repair that wound with her a really long time. And then I walked the Camino and I end up walking most of it alone through France because the weather was terrible that year.

They had the worst weather they'd had in 90 years. But then I, I get to this one place and I meet this other Pilgrim. And we decided to walk together and I'm going to call her Jennifer. We decided to walk together and she's really fast. So many times it's me watching her walk away as I try to keep up with her.

But irrespective of that, it's, you know, but the weather that day was awful. I mean, it [00:18:00] snowed on us. It hailed, I think it was late May. It was just awful. So finally we get to this. little tiny, tiny village in the middle of nowhere. And we're sitting around me, Jennifer, and this other pilgrim having dinner, and we're having a great conversation.

And Jennifer was kind of, um, I don't know, down on life, had a really pessimistic view of the world, was clearly struggling. And she was just going on and on about how horrible French people are, how mean they are to her, you know, just how terrible they are as a collective. And all these things and I just said, Oh, I mean, gosh, I haven't had that experience. I've had, everybody's been really nice to me and she lost it. And she jumped up from the table with such violence that the chair went flying. She started sobbing and crying and yelling at me that I didn't have any connection to reality and that if I'm religious, I need [00:19:00] to get a grip on myself. Cause I don't really. God doesn't exist. And I mean, she let me have it. She let me have it. The other Pilgrim blesses her. It was like, um, I'm going to, I'm going to go to my bedroom now. And she stomped out and went outside to have a cigarette. And I thought to myself, Oh dear, Kirsten, you, you hate conflict. This is so, I was terrified, but I thought to myself, please help me whatever spirits or whatever energies, because I can't run away from her.

Like if I run away from her, it's going to make her feel worse. So I need to find the strength. To be able to sit with her and be present with her. And after 15 minutes, she came back in and sat down next to me and was still crying. And she said, I am so sorry. I am so sorry. She was so ashamed and humiliated. She said, I don't know why I did that. I don't say things like that. I never overreact like that. And there's always this. There's this trope on the Camino that everybody loses it at least once. That you just like fall apart and you, [00:20:00] you become something other. But she was sitting there and I just thought, Okay, I'm gonna just listen to her.

And after she said a few things, Got it out of her system. I said, listen, I have to tell you that what you did was really nothing. I said, one time I said something so horrific to my sister that it left a 50 mile diameter circle of nuclear devastation around where we were at. And Jennifer said, really? And I said, Oh yeah.

Yeah. Um, what you just did was nothing. What I did. Like ruined lives. Okay, it literally ruined lives. So please don't worry about it. Please don't fret. It's okay. I've seen worse. And then we had more of a [00:21:00] conversation. She was still pessimistic and not happy with a lot of things and still took me to task on some things. But we decided to walk together. So we walked together a few more days and we got to this big town and I went to go stay in a tiny hotel and she went to the hostel. And before she left, she said, let's meet for lunch. And I said, okay, so we met and we had lunch and she said, I want to let you know I have something for you. And when you walk the Camino, the biggest thing for a pilgrim is to signify that you are a true authentic walker of the way. You want to have this thing called a coquilla, and it's a shell that is a sign of St. James. You attach it to your pack so people know when you go to places, oh, there's a pilgrim walking the Camino.

I could not find a shell to save my life. I'd already been walking six weeks. I felt like a faux pilgrim. I was so depressed and bummed out. But I thought, okay, it's going to come when it's going to come. And so we met for lunch and she said, I'm staying at this aubergine [00:22:00] and the gentleman has a ton of these.

So I may do this and she handed me a shell and she said, it actually, she said, I carved a hole in it and I attached a little rope so that you can attach it to your pack, but here, I wanted to give this to you as a thanks for everything that we've been through. And I thought, Oh my gosh, you know, I'm so shallow.

I was like, Oh gosh, I've got a shell. Like, Oh, yay. I'm so I'm real now. I'm a real Pilgrim. And I went, you know, we said our goodbyes and I went back, attach it to my back. And it wasn't until I was walking about two days later that I just stopped in the middle of the trail and I was gobsmacked because I realized, I realized. That when Jennifer gave me that shell, it was basically spirit or the universe, energy, whatever you want to call it, saying. Good job. You did what we wanted you to do. You were there for someone else and you [00:23:00] showed up for them in a way that was really authentic, but not only that removed her shame, removed her humiliation and you, you help someone who is in dire need. And then a few more, you know, paces down the road. I thought, Oh my God, that was why that happened with my sister and my dad. Because if that wouldn't have happened, I would have never. been able to be present to Jennifer or tell her that story and take away her suffering and help her feel better. And I've said this before, but it was such an incredible feeling realizing that not only have the universe noticed that I'd stepped up and given me a coquia, a true sign of the pilgrim, but that everything that had happened to me, there was a reason for it.

And I wasn't going crazy and I didn't need to be put in a mental hospital. And I just thought, you know what, if [00:24:00] I can give that gift to someone, take away their shame, their humiliation, whatever, I will suffer like that anytime, because it was such a powerful experience. And then multiple years later, I'm in Santa Fe and I go to see the shaman. And I said, I've had these, this weird thing happened to me twice. And I told her about it and she goes, Oh my gosh, that's, that's compassionate possession. And I said, what? And she said, Oh, yeah, that happens all the time to people. And I thought, okay, what, okay, would have been good to know years ago. Thank you so much for at least giving me some sort of name for what happened to me, some sort of definition or idea so that I don't feel like I'm losing it. But she basically said, Oh yeah, this is, it's totally, it's nothing out of the ordinary. So I thought, Oh my goodness. Oh my goodness. You've just made me feel 10, 000 times lighter and better. And, you know, that experience, really, it [00:25:00] was, it was, there was a lot of suffering on my part and a lot of horror, basically, at what I'd done to my sister, and I claim that I did that to my sister.

I'm not using this as an excuse that my behavior should be, you know, forgotten or entirely forgiven. But then I was part of something that then allowed me to be present to someone else years later, in a way that I could have never foreseen. Um, it, I, I always talk about it as being, I was able to glimpse behind the curtain of the universe into that mystery from, you know, the great Oz from the Wizard of Oz. Where all the magic and the mystery happened for the possibility. So yeah, that's,

that's my story.

Kara Goodwin: Oh, Wow. Thank you so much for sharing that. And I've never heard of compassionate possession either, but I've done a ton, like the shadow has been prominent in my world since around the eclipse time. We just had the eclipse in April [00:26:00] of this year, and I was right on the path of totality. Um, So I was really paying attention to, you know, it was a big hype anyway, but just because it was like, I literally watched it in totality in my backyard.

Um, so I was just very tuned into it because, I mean, I think that was a big part of it, but, um, But I noticed all of this shadow coming up with it, which is kind of funny because the eclipse that's literally physically part of it is the shadow of the moon cover. You know, the moon is, uh, making the sun be in shadow.

Um, but I O I've never been particularly drawn to shadow work. Um, you know, that's some people that's their. Thing and they really work on that. They market themselves in that way. They've trained in that way. For me, for a long time, I sort of saw the shadow as like, well, that's like the dark parts of us and I'd rather not [00:27:00] spend time there.

Um, and I just sort of. You know, let's focus on the light, let's focus on the great good stuff, you know, and I started to change, or it started, it started showing itself in a different way, even the way that I understand the shadow to be, which is, you know, it's not always those parts of us that we're ashamed of, or that we, you know, that are those like, you know, Tricky, you know, like this is not how I want to show up in the world.

I can't believe I did that. I can't believe I said that, but it's also the parts of us that just are undiscovered yet, you know, because we don't know that they're there, but there's also this element that you've just beautifully encompassed, which is. The parts of us that are really hard for us, the parts that we are ashamed of, or that we feel [00:28:00] guilty about, or that, um, make us sad or angry or whatever it is.

But being able to really work with them, to face them, to not deny them, to not sweep them under the rug and pretend that they're not a part of us, but to really be able to. Accept that's part of our history. That's part of who we are and to be able to utilize them in a way that is Actually beneficial for, and it might, like you said, it might be years later that we see it happening with somebody else.

And we are able to have this level of compassion in a way that we, that is completely authentic because we really have been there and we know the horror of what they're going through, or we know the shame that they feel, or we know the. [00:29:00] Heartbreak or whatever it is. And when we get that lens of, Oh my God, I'm completely relating to this person and I can build this bridge.

And I can show them that they're not alone. What was this horrible thing to look at and painful for us to look at becomes this gift that we have that it's like, Oh my gosh, without, let me, you said it so beautifully, but it's, it's just this whole other perspective on the shadow. And, and then it's not a shadow.

Not only is it, we were willing to look at it, but it's also this thing that we can. Embrace and see that there is actually beauty in there. And it also helps us to see that, you know, a lot of spiritual teachers will talk about, there is no good or bad, you know, or we're in this, we've got this dual sense of how we [00:30:00] experienced the world, but we're really like, that's a human.

Construct things are not inherently good or bad. And that's, you know, that is, can be really hard to understand in a practical way where it's like, yeah, but if you have, yeah, but if I, if I did this terrible thing to my sister and I feel awful about it and she feels awful about it and it wrecked our relationship for all this time, there's nothing good at it.

That's pure bad, you know? And it's like, yeah, but is it, you know, and. Is there beauty in there somewhere? Like, is there gold in there? Is there a diamond in there that we just can't see yet? And, um, so that, man, that's a powerful, powerful story. Thank you so much for sharing that.

Kirsten Rudberg: Oh my gosh, of course. And, you know, as far as the suffering, I really appreciate that you brought in this dualistic sense of good [00:31:00] versus bad, you know, um, I really appreciate that because, you know, you could have looked at my feeling that I was going crazy or that I needed to be in a mental hospital as negative, of course. It didn't feel great at the time, but this whole experience, all of it, even though it did take kind of years to resolve itself or find some sort of resolution, I, I now, it's kind of caused me to pivot when Things that are maybe, you know, my transmission just went out in my car. Now, some people might look at that and say, Oh, that's super negative.

That's really bad. But now when things happen in my life where there is suffering, because look, I'm the biggest whiner on the planet. I'm not saying I complain. I'm a whiner. I'm kind of a jerk sometimes to the universe or the energy. It has caused me to have gratitude for things that are happening, that are [00:32:00] challenging and difficult. Because I know that most things that are happening to me or happening, I don't know, with me in concert, um, are really for my greater good. And so how do I have gratitude for what happened the first time with my sister and dad? I mean, I guess I can go back in time and have gratitude from that moment on, but it, now I have gratitude when things are challenging or hard, and that's also another thing that I. But I kind of, I guess I received it from that whole experience.

Kara Goodwin: Yes. Well, it's interesting from a quantum perspective where it's like, even if you, you know, spent years really regretting and being ashamed of what happened from the moment that you were able to change your perspective that time on the trail, when just like that, you were like, Oh my God, the grace. [00:33:00] Oh, the whole thing was a design.

This was like a masterful design. And from that moment on, anytime you look back, you can see the grace, which changes your future. Because you're no longer carrying that trauma in the same way you've, you have changed it, which changes your future. And it, it changed your past too, you know, because again, like you look back on it and you don't see it the same way.

It's not the same event because you have a different perspective. You have a different. Like a different facet of the prism has opened up to you and stuff. So, so it's really interesting from a quantum perspective and timelines and all of that, like what that does. Um, and I love to, I don't think, you know, we should overlook the fact that you [00:34:00] had, you decided how you were going to handle that when it happened, when you were on the receiving end.

Because you just as much could have easily been like, finally, someone else did it and this time they did it to me and I am right and I don't deserve that. And, you know, and I think we can easily have a tendency to, if, even if we have been on the other side of it to be like, okay, finally, it's my turn to not be.

The one, I can be the indignant one, I can be the, uh, the victim here and I'm not the perpetrator this time. So I'm really going to lean into that victim part, you know? So I love that you received and that you, that you saw that you are receiving that like applause. You know, of like, yes, you here, here's a token of gratitude because there, [00:35:00] there was not just one way that you could have handled that.

That's the highest way you could have handled that, you know, with the most grace and the most God shining through. So that's really touching.

Kirsten Rudberg: Thank you. I hadn't thought of it that way before. Um, I mean, I really, in the moment, didn't think there was any other way to respond. Only because her, you know, in that moment, she, I could just, her pain and her hurt and her wounding were so overt and so on the surface that I had no other, I feel like, I had no other choice but to respond with it. compassion and deep listening and being present to her. At least that's what I, I would have hoped that someone would have responded to me with, if I was in the same, similar situation. So yeah, but thank you. That means a lot. I appreciate it.[00:36:00]

Kara Goodwin: I call it as I see it. Um, Okay. So I want to know what it, what it's like for you to listen to God. Can you talk a little bit about that?

Kirsten Rudberg: So, I mean, I always tell people that I'm sure God and the angels and the ancestors are all like, that one over there is a stinker. Because I'm super grumpy and, you know, when I'm asked to do something or show up, there's a lot of grousing. There's a lot of dragging my feet. There's a lot of complaining. I'm kind of like a kid kicking a stone or a can down an alley. I'm like, how dare you annoy me like this? I mean, there's so much, but I also think they're like laughing while I do that because. They're like, why do we have to go through this rigmarole every time? Because you do it anyway. [00:37:00] Okay, so just can we skip that past the part where you complain for like a couple days and get annoyed. Um, but my way of listening to God is, I mean, I sort of don't have a choice and I describe it as this way. Are you familiar with who Maya Deren is? was a cultural anthropologist who went to Haiti and studied voodoo and Haitian worship practices in the, yeah, in the 40s and 50s. And she was a documentary filmmaker as well.

She's an incredible, incredible, interesting human being. Um, she wrote this book called The Divine Horseman after studying voodoo religious practices in Haiti for quite a while. And basically what happens is they have a ceremony, Um, it's meant to importune a certain God to come in to give advice or help people with their lives or what have you. But it's, um, what happens is after doing all this ceremony, the God comes in and mounts someone. And so the person [00:38:00] completely changes their demeanor. They become someone else and the God speaks through them. And, you know, life advice, medical remedies, laughter, all sorts of stuff happen. And that's why the book's called The Divine Horseman, because the god comes in and mounts the human being like they're a horse. And so, for me, the way I experience spirit or god is like a constant nag. And, um, I'll, you know, for example, I'm a creative, so I just had my third book come out and I've written a web series and I'm writing a comic book with a friend and, and so yesterday's a perfect example, um, or even in the past I'll wake up and I'll feel what it is sitting on my heart. And I'll get up and maybe make some coffee or tea and then I'll walk around for, you know, do my morning stuff and then it'll be like, no, wait, we're just, we're sitting on your heart. And I'm like, okay, whatever. I am busy. [00:39:00] Can you not tell that I'm busy? And then I just wait a little bit longer. Maybe I'll watch some TV or something.

And then it becomes so heavy and intense. It's like a monkey on my back that I have to, I know this. Like if I just sit down at a computer, get whatever it is. It's out and it usually comes out fully formed. Whatever it is. I'm writing comes out fully formed. I sit down. I get it off and then that energy goes away and it's all right.

All right, fine. You're done for the day. So I experienced God is as being, you know, some days God's not on my heart or on my shoulder. It's like a little monkey. Other times I've had crazy experiences where, um, God was like sitting on me and is like, Hey, um, you have to go on a walk now. And I was like, um, I'm sorry, I don't have to go on a walk now.

And then I sat there and it's like, no, no, go on a walk. And I groused some more. And then after 15 [00:40:00] minutes, I'm like, bye. And I'm growling and cranky and annoyed because I never go on a walk at this time. And I. I. go outside and spirit was like, turn left. Okay. I feel crazy telling you all this because, but this is what happens to me. And then it led me into this hiking trail up near Los Alamos and I'm walking. And then spirit was like, go back to the street. And I was so I'm like, are you joking? You got me off the couch to go on a hike for 10 minutes. And now you have me going back to the street. This is stupid. You're stupid. Whatever.

So I was walking along the street and I. Look over and this woman passes me and she parks up the block gets out looks around. It's like walking everywhere and I thought, oh, that woman's lost. And then I'm walking and I'm approaching her. She gets back in her car drives further up the block gets out, like, looks all over the place.

And I thought, wait a second. Is that is that woman driving a Nissan Sentra? Oh, my God. She is. And then I remembered that I was having a [00:41:00] woman come. From Craigslist to pick up a free table. And she said, I'll be in a Nissan Sentra. And so I trotted up to her and I said, are you looking for the house with the free table?

And she said, yes, I didn't write you. Who are you? And I'm like, I'm the one with the free table. She said, oh, my gosh, I didn't write your address down. I looked at your house on Google space or something, and I thought I'd be able to tell where it was. From that. And I said, Oh my gosh, you're so lost. It's way at the end of the block. And, um, if you want to drive up there, I'll meet you and you can get the table. And she said, how did you, how did you know how to be out here for this? So I was like, Oh, it's just, it's a long story. And I'm clearly who is the jerk in our relationship. It's me. I'm the jerk, but God knows this already and it's okay. It's okay. It's okay. So if I wouldn't have gotten off the couch and been nagged to [00:42:00] death, the poor woman would have never from the house, would have never gotten her table, but that was just another instance of my life where that's how I experience God. I hate to say that as a nag or a monkey, but that's, that's a spirit has discovered that that's the best way to get my butt in gear. Yeah.

Kara Goodwin: I love that. That's a great story. Well, Kirsten, this has been so much fun. I would love for you to tell people how they can find out more about you, including your podcast, Bite Size Blessings. Love

Kirsten Rudberg: Oh yeah. Thank you. So we'll, I have a podcast and it's Bite Size Blessings and it's B Y T E. And I interview people from all over the world, everywhere, every religion, atheists, and I ask them, have you ever experienced something magical or miraculous in your life? And how did it change you? Um, and those it's really a selfish endeavor because I want to hear those stories because they remind me that this universe, this creation is a [00:43:00] good thing. So you can find me by my website, which is BiteSizedBlessings. com. And again, it's B Y T E. And on there, you can find a link to my YouTube for my animated series. My first three books are up there. Um, yeah, everything, uh, stories about the guests that I've had on a little bit more about me, but that's where I am.

Kara Goodwin: it. That's awesome. Well, this has been wonderful. My heart is full. Thank you so much for being here and I look forward to coming on Bite Sized Blessings myself. Yay. So I'll

Kirsten Rudberg: Yay. I'm excited. Yeah. I'm so excited. I can't wait.

Kara Goodwin: Yay. Thank you so much, Kirsten.

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